Re: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480]
Hey good advertisement. Personally don't think you can learn anything new on-line. On-line learning is good for people finishing degrees not for entry level. Is this part of a degree program. Don - Original Message - From: "Dr Rita Puzmanova" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 6:47 AM Subject: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480] Hi all, The discussion on this group concerning learning resources is mostly about self-study (books and other vast - not only Cisco - resources, including the group postings), or instructor-led courses provided by Cisco Training/Learning partners. I wonder whether someone has ever taken an on-line (web-based, asynchronous) course in IT (even not specifically by Cisco or Cisco-oriented) and what the experience has been. I would appreciate your input (off-mailing list due to the off-topic nature), as I am myself exploring the on-line education possibilities and will run a 12-week course on TCP/IP through UCLA, starting shortly. For those interested in more info use the following link (TCP/IP Specialist): http://www.onlineLearning.net/CourseCatalog/CourseDetail.cfm?s=527.5080w012n .034z215s30CID=1001380240 Rita FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=484t=480 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480]
Hey good advertisement. Let me make a comment here. I know Rita, and I regarded this as a legitimate request for information. There's a delicate line, I will admit, about information and advertisement. I don't think there was anything wrong with my posting a response to some reviews of my book, and adding some perspective. Personally don't think you can learn anything new on-line. For some people, it may be the only option, even at the beginning. They may be in isolated locations, can't go to regular classes, etc. Classroom training is probably best for many people, although I tend not to learn well as a student in a formal class (I teach them well and learn when I teach) On-line learning is good for people finishing degrees not for entry level. Or in staying abreast of technology in general. Most of the real work of the IETF is done via mailing lists. Is this part of a degree program. Don - Original Message - From: "Dr Rita Puzmanova" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 6:47 AM Subject: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480] Hi all, The discussion on this group concerning learning resources is mostly about self-study (books and other vast - not only Cisco - resources, including the group postings), or instructor-led courses provided by Cisco Training/Learning partners. I wonder whether someone has ever taken an on-line (web-based, asynchronous) course in IT (even not specifically by Cisco or Cisco-oriented) and what the experience has been. I would appreciate your input (off-mailing list due to the off-topic nature), as I am myself exploring the on-line education possibilities and will run a 12-week course on TCP/IP through UCLA, starting shortly. For those interested in more info use the following link (TCP/IP Specialist): http://www.onlineLearning.net/CourseCatalog/CourseDetail.cfm?s=527.5080w012n .034z215s30CID=1001380240 Rita FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=494t=480 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480]
Thank you Howard - for support and valid points. In the meantime I have received quite a few (different) opinions on on-line training based on personal experiences which I value. Anyone else wishing to comment - please do off-line (well, directly to my address - each view requires a peer-to-peer discussion). Thanks for comprehension, Rita "Howard C. Berkowitz" wrote: Hey good advertisement. Let me make a comment here. I know Rita, and I regarded this as a legitimate request for information. There's a delicate line, I will admit, about information and advertisement. I don't think there was anything wrong with my posting a response to some reviews of my book, and adding some perspective. Personally don't think you can learn anything new on-line. For some people, it may be the only option, even at the beginning. They may be in isolated locations, can't go to regular classes, etc. Classroom training is probably best for many people, although I tend not to learn well as a student in a formal class (I teach them well and learn when I teach) On-line learning is good for people finishing degrees not for entry level. Or in staying abreast of technology in general. Most of the real work of the IETF is done via mailing lists. Is this part of a degree program. Don - Original Message - From: "Dr Rita Puzmanova" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 6:47 AM Subject: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480] Hi all, The discussion on this group concerning learning resources is mostly about self-study (books and other vast - not only Cisco - resources, including the group postings), or instructor-led courses provided by Cisco Training/Learning partners. I wonder whether someone has ever taken an on-line (web-based, asynchronous) course in IT (even not specifically by Cisco or Cisco-oriented) and what the experience has been. I would appreciate your input (off-mailing list due to the off-topic nature), as I am myself exploring the on-line education possibilities and will run a 12-week course on TCP/IP through UCLA, starting shortly. For those interested in more info use the following link (TCP/IP Specialist): http://www.onlineLearning.net/CourseCatalog/CourseDetail.cfm?s=527.5080w012n .034z215s30CID=1001380240 Rita FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=498t=480 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480]
- Original Message - From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 10:38 AM Subject: Re: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480] Hey good advertisement. Let me make a comment here. I know Rita, and I regarded this as a legitimate request for information. There's a delicate line, I will admit, about information and advertisement. I don't think there was anything wrong with my posting a response to some reviews of my book, and adding some perspective. If it was a request for info why the link to the course URL? It is said that the cook is involved with making a BLT but the pig is committed. There is nothing wrong with doing business here, but seems like Rita is already teaching an on-line course so why the research. Looking at the link, Rita seems more than qualified to teach a course in entry level tcp/ip, yet doesn't know the feasibility of on-line learning Howard lets look at it this way: What do you all think about learning by reading from a book. I would like to get everybody's thoughts, OH by the way here is my book Designing Addressing Architectures for Routing and Switching ISBN: 1578700604. You must of thought it was a good idea or you wouldn't have written it. There you go a plug for a good book. Then Rita sends back a reply refuting my opinion, so I guess I don't feel that way. Then you do the same thing saying you can learn on-line but you don't like a classroom setting. I don't like an on-line setting or classroom setting that is still my opinion. so different people do have different opinions. Would much rather learn by teaching oneself (guess that is why we home school), also have taught adults and agree that I learn when in class teaching others. There are, again in my opinion, three ways to learn 1. repetition/memorization 2. facilitation 3. mentoring generally children need mostly 1 and some 2 generally adults need mostly 3 and some 2 I don't see where an on-line course can provide much real mentoring. The simple type 1 learning I feel on-line courses provide can be done by reading either Perlman or Comer which are listed in the recommended texts yourself. Rita, Howard do you have a mentor, are you mentoring anyone I can say yes to both. Even a boor like me could learn something from you Howard if you mentored me but you have to guarantee a win on Jeopardy with Alex. From a cash flow perspective on-line learning is great and much success to y'all??? The "good advertisement" and the "on-line learning" issues are seperate, and Rita, I apologize for being flip about your e-mail. If you are still here do either of you know Don Personally don't think you can learn anything new on-line. For some people, it may be the only option, even at the beginning. They may be in isolated locations, can't go to regular classes, etc. Classroom training is probably best for many people, although I tend not to learn well as a student in a formal class (I teach them well and learn when I teach) On-line learning is good for people finishing degrees not for entry level. Or in staying abreast of technology in general. Most of the real work of the IETF is done via mailing lists. Yeah but if you are on the IETF mailing list a lot is implied, start sending those e-mails to someone who doesn't even have e-mail and see if they are up to speed in no time :) Is this part of a degree program. That is a question. Don - Original Message - From: "Dr Rita Puzmanova" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 6:47 AM Subject: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480] Hi all, The discussion on this group concerning learning resources is mostly about self-study (books and other vast - not only Cisco - resources, including the group postings), or instructor-led courses provided by Cisco Training/Learning partners. I wonder whether someone has ever taken an on-line (web-based, asynchronous) course in IT (even not specifically by Cisco or Cisco-oriented) and what the experience has been. I would appreciate your input (off-mailing list due to the off-topic nature), as I am myself exploring the on-line education possibilities and will run a 12-week course on TCP/IP through UCLA, starting shortly. For those interested in more info use the following link (TCP/IP Specialist): http://www.onlineLearning.net/CourseCatalog/CourseDetail.cfm?s=527.5080w012 n .034z215s30CID=1001380240 Rita FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message P
RE: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480]-note to Howard [7:516]
To all, Howard and Rita: Howard, I have spoken to you in the past, this is my 3rd time rejoining the list. But if any of you have any more information on online courses I would be welcome to it. I would not like vendor specific course, but I welcome technology courses. Responding to the comments below, this is a forum for opinions as well as sharing technical insight. If it is possible could either Howard or Rita share with me where I can find online courses that are worth the time. And keep in mind I have experience in every arena of Wide Area networking so I'm not interested in the basic courses (intro to TCP/IP). Mostly forums of advanced technology. -Original Message- From: Donald B Johnson jr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 4:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480] - Original Message - From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 10:38 AM Subject: Re: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480] Hey good advertisement. Let me make a comment here. I know Rita, and I regarded this as a legitimate request for information. There's a delicate line, I will admit, about information and advertisement. I don't think there was anything wrong with my posting a response to some reviews of my book, and adding some perspective. If it was a request for info why the link to the course URL? It is said that the cook is involved with making a BLT but the pig is committed. There is nothing wrong with doing business here, but seems like Rita is already teaching an on-line course so why the research. Looking at the link, Rita seems more than qualified to teach a course in entry level tcp/ip, yet doesn't know the feasibility of on-line learning Howard lets look at it this way: What do you all think about learning by reading from a book. I would like to get everybody's thoughts, OH by the way here is my book Designing Addressing Architectures for Routing and Switching ISBN: 1578700604. You must of thought it was a good idea or you wouldn't have written it. There you go a plug for a good book. Then Rita sends back a reply refuting my opinion, so I guess I don't feel that way. Then you do the same thing saying you can learn on-line but you don't like a classroom setting. I don't like an on-line setting or classroom setting that is still my opinion. so different people do have different opinions. Would much rather learn by teaching oneself (guess that is why we home school), also have taught adults and agree that I learn when in class teaching others. There are, again in my opinion, three ways to learn 1. repetition/memorization 2. facilitation 3. mentoring generally children need mostly 1 and some 2 generally adults need mostly 3 and some 2 I don't see where an on-line course can provide much real mentoring. The simple type 1 learning I feel on-line courses provide can be done by reading either Perlman or Comer which are listed in the recommended texts yourself. Rita, Howard do you have a mentor, are you mentoring anyone I can say yes to both. Even a boor like me could learn something from you Howard if you mentored me but you have to guarantee a win on Jeopardy with Alex. From a cash flow perspective on-line learning is great and much success to y'all??? The "good advertisement" and the "on-line learning" issues are seperate, and Rita, I apologize for being flip about your e-mail. If you are still here do either of you know Don Personally don't think you can learn anything new on-line. For some people, it may be the only option, even at the beginning. They may be in isolated locations, can't go to regular classes, etc. Classroom training is probably best for many people, although I tend not to learn well as a student in a formal class (I teach them well and learn when I teach) On-line learning is good for people finishing degrees not for entry level. Or in staying abreast of technology in general. Most of the real work of the IETF is done via mailing lists. Yeah but if you are on the IETF mailing list a lot is implied, start sending those e-mails to someone who doesn't even have e-mail and see if they are up to speed in no time :) Is this part of a degree program. That is a question. Don - Original Message - From: "Dr Rita Puzmanova" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 6:47 AM Subject: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480] Hi all, The discussion on this group concerning learning resources is mostly about self-study (books and other vast - not only Cisco - resources, including the group postings), or instructor-led courses provided by Cisco Training/Learning partners. I wonder whether someone has ever taken an on-line (web-based, asynchronous) course in IT (even not specifically by Cisco or Cisco-oriented) and what the experience has been. I would appreciate your input (off-mai
RE: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480]-note to Howard [7:524]
my web site at www.itprc.com contains many links to technology tutorials and white papers. I'd recommend http://www.webtorials.com/ as well Irwin -Original Message- From: Winchester, Derek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 5:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480]-note to Howard [7:516] To all, Howard and Rita: Howard, I have spoken to you in the past, this is my 3rd time rejoining the list. But if any of you have any more information on online courses I would be welcome to it. I would not like vendor specific course, but I welcome technology courses. Responding to the comments below, this is a forum for opinions as well as sharing technical insight. If it is possible could either Howard or Rita share with me where I can find online courses that are worth the time. And keep in mind I have experience in every arena of Wide Area networking so I'm not interested in the basic courses (intro to TCP/IP). Mostly forums of advanced technology. -Original Message- From: Donald B Johnson jr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 4:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480] - Original Message - From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 10:38 AM Subject: Re: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480] Hey good advertisement. Let me make a comment here. I know Rita, and I regarded this as a legitimate request for information. There's a delicate line, I will admit, about information and advertisement. I don't think there was anything wrong with my posting a response to some reviews of my book, and adding some perspective. If it was a request for info why the link to the course URL? It is said that the cook is involved with making a BLT but the pig is committed. There is nothing wrong with doing business here, but seems like Rita is already teaching an on-line course so why the research. Looking at the link, Rita seems more than qualified to teach a course in entry level tcp/ip, yet doesn't know the feasibility of on-line learning Howard lets look at it this way: What do you all think about learning by reading from a book. I would like to get everybody's thoughts, OH by the way here is my book Designing Addressing Architectures for Routing and Switching ISBN: 1578700604. You must of thought it was a good idea or you wouldn't have written it. There you go a plug for a good book. Then Rita sends back a reply refuting my opinion, so I guess I don't feel that way. Then you do the same thing saying you can learn on-line but you don't like a classroom setting. I don't like an on-line setting or classroom setting that is still my opinion. so different people do have different opinions. Would much rather learn by teaching oneself (guess that is why we home school), also have taught adults and agree that I learn when in class teaching others. There are, again in my opinion, three ways to learn 1. repetition/memorization 2. facilitation 3. mentoring generally children need mostly 1 and some 2 generally adults need mostly 3 and some 2 I don't see where an on-line course can provide much real mentoring. The simple type 1 learning I feel on-line courses provide can be done by reading either Perlman or Comer which are listed in the recommended texts yourself. Rita, Howard do you have a mentor, are you mentoring anyone I can say yes to both. Even a boor like me could learn something from you Howard if you mentored me but you have to guarantee a win on Jeopardy with Alex. From a cash flow perspective on-line learning is great and much success to y'all??? The "good advertisement" and the "on-line learning" issues are seperate, and Rita, I apologize for being flip about your e-mail. If you are still here do either of you know Don Personally don't think you can learn anything new on-line. For some people, it may be the only option, even at the beginning. They may be in isolated locations, can't go to regular classes, etc. Classroom training is probably best for many people, although I tend not to learn well as a student in a formal class (I teach them well and learn when I teach) On-line learning is good for people finishing degrees not for entry level. Or in staying abreast of technology in general. Most of the real work of the IETF is done via mailing lists. Yeah but if you are on the IETF mailing list a lot is implied, start sending those e-mails to someone who doesn't even have e-mail and see if they are up to speed in no time :) Is this part of a degree program. That is a question. Don - Original Message - From: "Dr Rita Puzmanova" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 6:47 AM Subject: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480] Hi all, The discussion on this group concerning learning resources is mostly about self-study (books and
RE: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480]-note to Howard [7:529]
MIT announced recently that it will make nearly all course materials available free on the World Wide Web: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/nr/2001/ocw.html I don't think this means course credit, but it will certainly be a good learning opportunity. Of course, being MIT, the course material will probably be very hard with lots of arcane theory. I have taken and developed Web-based courses. They can be great, especially if there is a discussion board with other students and the teacher. I belive for such classes to work, they also must include some form of self-assessment. Students must be given the opportunity to determine if they are getting it, and if not, pointers to where they can go for more info or exercises they can try in order to learn the material better. Pull-down-menu tests, multiple-choice tests, true/false tests, short-answer tests with links to good answers, etc., are all possible with HTML and good things to add to a Web-based course. By the way, there is a lot of concern at universities about whether online learning is a good thing or not. I'm sure Dr. Puzmanova's query was authentic and that she was not just advertising her course. She probably just needed some comments on her plans. That's market research, not advertising. Why do people take such a cynical view? And why don't they show respect to professors from UCLA? I wonder about young people today. ;-) Priscilla At 05:48 PM 4/13/01, Winchester, Derek wrote: To all, Howard and Rita: Howard, I have spoken to you in the past, this is my 3rd time rejoining the list. But if any of you have any more information on online courses I would be welcome to it. I would not like vendor specific course, but I welcome technology courses. Responding to the comments below, this is a forum for opinions as well as sharing technical insight. If it is possible could either Howard or Rita share with me where I can find online courses that are worth the time. And keep in mind I have experience in every arena of Wide Area networking so I'm not interested in the basic courses (intro to TCP/IP). Mostly forums of advanced technology. -Original Message- From: Donald B Johnson jr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 4:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480] - Original Message - From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 10:38 AM Subject: Re: Off-topic: On-line course in TCP/IP [7:480] Hey good advertisement. Let me make a comment here. I know Rita, and I regarded this as a legitimate request for information. There's a delicate line, I will admit, about information and advertisement. I don't think there was anything wrong with my posting a response to some reviews of my book, and adding some perspective. If it was a request for info why the link to the course URL? It is said that the cook is involved with making a BLT but the pig is committed. There is nothing wrong with doing business here, but seems like Rita is already teaching an on-line course so why the research. Looking at the link, Rita seems more than qualified to teach a course in entry level tcp/ip, yet doesn't know the feasibility of on-line learning Howard lets look at it this way: What do you all think about learning by reading from a book. I would like to get everybody's thoughts, OH by the way here is my book Designing Addressing Architectures for Routing and Switching ISBN: 1578700604. You must of thought it was a good idea or you wouldn't have written it. There you go a plug for a good book. Then Rita sends back a reply refuting my opinion, so I guess I don't feel that way. Then you do the same thing saying you can learn on-line but you don't like a classroom setting. I don't like an on-line setting or classroom setting that is still my opinion. so different people do have different opinions. Would much rather learn by teaching oneself (guess that is why we home school), also have taught adults and agree that I learn when in class teaching others. There are, again in my opinion, three ways to learn 1. repetition/memorization 2. facilitation 3. mentoring generally children need mostly 1 and some 2 generally adults need mostly 3 and some 2 I don't see where an on-line course can provide much real mentoring. The simple type 1 learning I feel on-line courses provide can be done by reading either Perlman or Comer which are listed in the recommended texts yourself. Rita, Howard do you have a mentor, are you mentoring anyone I can say yes to both. Even a boor like me could learn something from you Howard if you mentored me but you have to guarantee a win on Jeopardy with Alex. From a cash flow perspective on-line learning is great and much success to y'all??? The "good advertisement" and the "on-line learning" issues are seperate, and Rita, I apologize for being flip about your e-mail. If you are still h
