Re: [Savannah-hackers] Re: Java pages: project on savannah
Ok. The java-software web page says this: If you would like to contribute additional Java programs to the GNU project, please contact <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. Which doesn't really explain things clearly. I agree. It should say that there are two possibilities: * To have your non-GNU free software package listed. * To contribute a program to the GNU Project (make it a GNU package). Would you like to rewrite the text that way? ___ Classpath mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/classpath
Re: [Savannah-hackers] Re: Java pages: project on savannah
>>> Richard Stallman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 13-Apr-01 6:42:08 PM >>> >But gnu-java is normally asked to decide whether >to mention a package and make a link to it--as you >recognized: Ok. The java-software web page says this: If you would like to contribute additional Java programs to the GNU project, please contact <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. Which doesn't really explain things clearly. It probably needs to say a little bit more about what exactly those programs are being contributed to (ie: they're not being contributed, necessarily, to the GNU project). >>The current system is accepting java programs >>and listing them on our website as a service to >>the java community... >That is a much easier question than deciding whether we >want it as a GNU package; the criteria are simpler and the evaluators team for this kind of question. We don't give >such questions to the evaluators team for non-Java programs; > the webmasters handle it. >I think we should not change the way we handle this job. I agree. It seems that listing these packages is a good contribution to the free software and java communities. >>My own view is that the GNU project should try to offer >>something more to the java community. A number of projects >>and completed programs and libraries which provide GNU >>java in a coherant and sensible form. >That might be a useful project, if people want to work on it. >But we should continue making links to non-GNU Java programs, >and gnu-java may as well keep handling that. Ok. Here's what I'm going to do: - add myself to the gnu-java list so that aaron has some help - create a savannah project for gnu java webpages - update the web pages in the way I previously described Nic Ferrier ___ Classpath mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/classpath
Re: [Savannah-hackers] Re: Java pages: project on savannah
This seems to be historical, I think the GNU project initially thought of Java as a usefull, script like language and not a practical language for code in the GNU project. Yes. The gnu-java evaluation system seems to have been set up before rms formalized the overall evaluation system That is true. and it seems that gnu-java is now out of step. No, it usually does a different kind of job. The evaluation team's job is to decide questions such as whether we would like to make something a GNU package. When we want to judge whether to accept a Java program as a GNU package, the evaluation should be essentially the same as what we do for a C program or a Perl program. The language does not matter fundamentally. So that job could be done by the evaluation team. But gnu-java is normally asked to decide whether to mention a package and make a link to it--as you recognized: The current system is accepting java programs and listing them on our website as a service to the java community... it's not making them part of the GNU project. That is a much easier question than deciding whether we want it as a GNU package; the criteria are simpler and the threshold is lower. It does not make sense to go to the evaluators team for this kind of question. We don't give such questions to the evaluators team for non-Java programs; the webmasters handle it. I think we should not change the way we handle this job. My own view is that the GNU project should try to offer something more to the java community. A number of projects and completed programs and libraries which provide GNU java in a coherant and sensible form. That might be a useful project, if people want to work on it. But we should continue making links to non-GNU Java programs, and gnu-java may as well keep handling that. ___ Classpath mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/classpath
Re: [Savannah-hackers] Re: Java pages: project on savannah
The other parts of this is acting as a clearing-house for the gnu.* hierarchy of Java package names. We obviously need some kind of clearing-house to avoid clashes, and we also need a registry of packages under gnu.*. I presume that only GNU packages should have names in gnu.*. If so, this job applies to GNU packages written in Java. So it is fairly distinct from the other gnu-java job, which is deciding which non-GNU packages to make links to. If separating these two functions helps get them done, that is fine with me. In February I sent mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] asking whether I could "have" the gnu.lists package name. I've gotten no answer, so I don't really know if it ok or not to call my package gnu.lists. What went wrong here? How come nobody responded to this question? The [EMAIL PROTECTED] list may be a good place to discuss proposed packages, but perhaps it needs to be expanded to more people. Hold on there! Having more people on a list does not necessarily help make a decision--it could just as well lead to unterminating arguments. ___ Classpath mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/classpath
[Savannah-hackers] Re: Java pages: project on savannah
> Nic, you are way behind the times. A savannah repository is already > set up to manage all of the GNU web pages. Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > and ask for access to software/java and you're ready to go. This is partialy true. A project exists for /software/javadeps but there is no project for /software/java. If webmasters are giving access to the whole web site (inclusion in the savannah.gnu.org:/projects/www/) instead of creating a specific project when possible, this should be fixed. If a group of people has to work specificaly and only on /software/java, it's a lot better to create a project for this purpose than inserting them into the savannah.gnu.org:/projects/www/. If the same person has to work on /software/kawa, he can be a registered developer of both groups and will have access to both directories. Becoming the developer of a given group takes no time at all (typing the account name in project admin + return). In addtion, asking your co-workers on some projects to add you to the list is likely to be a fast process. Asking the overbusy webmasters is likely to be a slow process. In some rare cases (translators for instance) it may be more convinient to give access to the whole web site. It's not a question of security or fear that someone does bad things. It's just more practical this way. I see that there are 28 members in /projects/www/. How many of them are here simply because they have to get access to a single directory ? Maybe none, maybe a few. Hopefully all this is already very clear in the mind of everyone. If so please excuse me for this verbose message. Cheers, -- Loic Dachary http://www.dachary.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24 av Secretan http://www.senga.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] 75019Paris Tel: 33 1 42 45 09 16[EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt ___ Classpath mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/classpath
Re: [Savannah-hackers] Re: Java pages: project on savannah
>>> Hugo Gayosso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 12-Apr-01 5:36:50 AM >>> >I am the coordinator of the GNU eval team, we have >interacted a little bit with the gnu-java people, I forwarded >them the outline we use to review software, gnu-java seems to perform a different evaluation function from the eval team, it selects packages and programs that get listed on the GNU java page. This seems to be historical, I think the GNU project initially thought of Java as a usefull, script like language and not a practical language for code in the GNU project. I don't think any of us think like that anymore. >I am definitely willing to work together with the >gnu-java people whenever we receive an offer >of a Java package, and I think it makes sense >we stay communicated so you get any updates >to the outline for reviews. >What do you think? I think that would be the right thing to do. The gnu-java evaluation system seems to have been set up before rms formalized the overall evaluation system and it seems that gnu-java is now out of step. Personally, I see no reason why there is a different team doing java eval. It should be the same people evaluating projects shouldn't it? The eval team needs to have people with a range of skills including some who understand where java fits into the current GNU project. I think that the eval team should perhaps select 2 or 3 people from different GNU java projects and put them on the eval team. As GNU java projects generate more interest people might consider performing the task in rotation. >Should we create a new mailing list specifically for >new java packages, where somebody from gnu-java >and somebody from gnueval will be subscribed? I think it would be better to integrate java into the current system. Why should it be treated differently from any other non-C., non-Scheme language? I do think that there's a good reason for the GNU java projects to pull together and maintain a strong web presence (as discussed in my original mail) and perhaps have a list for discussing policies about java (for example, what the build system should be). >> Packages that were not accepted for GNU could still >> be listed (note: this should get even easier when the >> "free-software" savannah comes on line). >They could be listed in the Free Software Directory. Indeed. But that's perhaps not as simple as listing them, free form, on a webpage. Although when it is easy to add entries to the directory I'd be happy to do that. Nic ___ Classpath mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/classpath
Re: [Savannah-hackers] Re: Java pages: project on savannah
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 "Nic Ferrier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Perhaps the current gnu-java mailing list could even be pointed at a > new "java-pages" mailing list and those people could act as > evaluators for the GNU project eval team and for rms; offering views > on whether something submitted might be a valuable addition to the > GNU project. Hello! I am the coordinator of the GNU eval team, we have interacted a little bit with the gnu-java people, I forwarded them the outline we use to review software, one of the evaluators (now gone) created a set of guidelines for Java packages, as far as I remember he was waiting for comments about them (I don't know if he got any, at least not through the mailing list, but I have the guidelines he sent to the mailing list). I am definitely willing to work together with the gnu-java people whenever we receive an offer of a Java package, and I think it makes sense we stay communicated so you get any updates to the outline for reviews. What do you think? Should we create a new mailing list specifically for new java packages, where somebody from gnu-java and somebody from gnueval will be subscribed? > Packages that were not accepted for GNU could still be listed (note: > this should get even easier when the "free-software" savannah comes > on line). They could be listed in the Free Software Directory. Greetings, - -- Hugo Gayosso Support the Free Software Support the GNU Project http://www.gnu.org http://wildebeest.myip.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE61TDiMNObVRBZveYRAjoJAJ4uZtqdARUd0T0UR5jshbcFZOvwQQCfb6KA ndDFdaO24cwkZHlev+sHXyM= =MdKT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Classpath mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/classpath
Re: [Savannah-hackers] Re: Java pages: project on savannah
"Nic Ferrier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I'd like you to consider what I'm talking about though. The current > system is accepting java programs and listing them on our website as a > service to the java community... it's not making them part of the GNU > project. The other parts of this is acting as a clearing-house for the gnu.* hierarchy of Java package names. We obviously need some kind of clearing-house to avoid clashes, and we also need a registry of packages under gnu.*. (Of course packages *not* under gnu.* can still be GNU software.) At one point I thought that http://www.gnu.org/software/java/java-software.html was to be that registry of gnu.* packages. But is it being used that way? Is it being updated? In February I sent mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] asking whether I could "have" the gnu.lists package name. I've gotten no answer, so I don't really know if it ok or not to call my package gnu.lists. I finally decided to go ahead. I now have another new package containing XML utilities (for now a parser, printer, namespace-resolver, and xpath evaluator). This builds on gnu.lists and is in many ways different from traditional xml implementations. I'd like to call this gnu.xml. Nic's proposal came about because of a discussion we had about whether I could/should call my package gnu.xml, and how to "register" the gnu.xml package. I still think java-software.html or a similar catalog is a good mechanism, but we need some kind of policy for how new packages can be approved and added. The [EMAIL PROTECTED] list may be a good place to discuss proposed packages, but perhaps it needs to be expanded to more people. -- --Per Bothner [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.bothner.com/~per/ ___ Classpath mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/classpath
[Savannah-hackers] Re: Java pages: project on savannah
>>> "Aaron M. Renn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 11-Apr-01 9:25:00 PM >>> >> My question is: would anyone getting this have >> an objection to me setting up a savannah project >> to manage the GNU java web pages? >Nic, you are way behind the times. A savannah repository >is already set up to manage all of the GNU web pages I'm aware of the www project on savannah. I am proposing something different to that. A sort of "meta-java" project that would be the prime means of administering the GNU java presence. Isn't it silly to have everyone who might need to alter the java pages also able to alter other pages? >If you're willing to help out, I could really use some >help answering mail sent to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing >list. It is mostly people wanting to contribute packages. >I'm so busy there's usually a delay in response and action, >which surely frustrates the senders. I'd be happy to help. Do you want me to add my name to the alias? I'd like you to consider what I'm talking about though. The current system is accepting java programs and listing them on our website as a service to the java community... it's not making them part of the GNU project. My own view is that the GNU project should try to offer something more to the java community. A number of projects and completed programs and libraries which provide GNU java in a coherant and sensible form. Perhaps the current gnu-java mailing list could even be pointed at a new "java-pages" mailing list and those people could act as evaluators for the GNU project eval team and for rms; offering views on whether something submitted might be a valuable addition to the GNU project. Packages that were not accepted for GNU could still be listed (note: this should get even easier when the "free-software" savannah comes on line). Nic ___ Classpath mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/classpath
