Re: [ANN] Narrator: expressive, composable stream analysis

[dm3]

I've read about Lamina and Narrator, watched the linked videos and I think 
I understand how it all fits together:

1) Instrument the applications using Lamina's `instrument` or `trace`
2) Probe the instrumented code somehow by channeling the traces to some 
endpoint (how do you do this? do you automatically probe everything and 
channel to some remote service? Do you have some method of dynamically 
enabling/disabling probes on your services (e.g. embedded repl or some 
management endpoint)?
3) Analyze the traces remotely using Narrator + networking code + a UI 
(that's the gist of the Omphalos as I've understood). If so, what would you 
say is the largest difference between Riemann's[1] stream analysis 
functionality and what is provided by Narrator? Would you say that Omphalos 
and Riemann serve completely different puproses?

Am I on the right track?

[1] http://riemann.io/

On Sunday, 3 November 2013 00:28:27 UTC+2, Zach Tellman wrote:
>
> https://github.com/ztellman/narrator
>
> This is a reimplementation of an approach I've discussed in several talks 
> [1] [2], with an eye towards performance, memory efficiency, and 
> flexibility w.r.t. how the event stream is represented.  The readme does a 
> good job of explaining how it works, but there have been a number of new 
> event processing libraries recently (core.async, EEP, etc.), so I'll spend 
> some time here describing how this differs.
>
> First, this library is focused on aggregations over event streams, not 
> arbitrary transformations.  It is designed such that these aggregations can 
> be automatically parallelized, and use non-thread-safe data structures 
> (such as those in the excellent stream-lib [3]) without having to worry 
> about coordination.  As such, within this narrower application it has a 
> richer set of operators, and should be a fair bit faster (millions of 
> messages/sec/core).
>
> Second, this has support for time-series analysis of ordered streams, 
> either historical or in real time.  The input for either type of analysis 
> can be normal sequences, core.async channels, or Lamina channels. At 
> Factual we use this for aggregations across many of our real-time systems, 
> and I also use it for both ad hoc queries and daily rollups of logs and 
> other historical data.
>
> On a personal note, I think this is one of the most interesting and useful 
> libraries I've written.  I'm really looking forward to seeing how people 
> use it, and encourage feedback on how to make it better.
>
> Zach
>
> [1] http://www.infoq.com/presentations/analyze-running-system
> [2] http://vimeo.com/45132054#!
> [3] https://github.com/addthis/stream-lib
>

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(= '(java.lang.String) (list java.lang.String)) => false ?

[Dave Tenny]

I don't understand why these things aren't equal.

user=> (= (list java.lang.String) (list (class "abc")))
true
user=> (= '(java.lang.String) (list (class "abc")))
false
user=> (type '(java.lang.String))
clojure.lang.PersistentList
user=> (type (list java.lang.String))
clojure.lang.PersistentList

user=> (list java.lang.String)
(java.lang.String)
user=> '(java.lang.String)
(java.lang.String)
user=> (= *1 *2)
false


What am I missing?
 

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Re: (= '(java.lang.String) (list java.lang.String)) => false ?

[Timo Mihaljov]

On 10.11.2013 14:03, Dave Tenny wrote:
> I don't understand why these things aren't equal.
> 
> user=> (= (list java.lang.String) (list (class "abc")))
> true
> user=> (= '(java.lang.String) (list (class "abc")))
> false
> user=> (type '(java.lang.String))
> clojure.lang.PersistentList
> user=> (type (list java.lang.String))
> clojure.lang.PersistentList
> 
> user=> (list java.lang.String)
> (java.lang.String)
> user=> '(java.lang.String)
> (java.lang.String)
> user=> (= *1 *2)
> false
> 
> 
> What am I missing?

user=> (type (first (list java.lang.String)))
java.lang.Class
user=> (type (first '(java.lang.String)))
clojure.lang.Symbol

-- 
Timo

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Re: (= '(java.lang.String) (list java.lang.String)) => false ?

[Dave Tenny]

I should know better, thanks.

On Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:06:13 AM UTC-5, Timo Mihaljov wrote:
>
> On 10.11.2013 14:03, Dave Tenny wrote: 
> > I don't understand why these things aren't equal. 
> > 
> > user=> (= (list java.lang.String) (list (class "abc"))) 
> > true 
> > user=> (= '(java.lang.String) (list (class "abc"))) 
> > false 
> > user=> (type '(java.lang.String)) 
> > clojure.lang.PersistentList 
> > user=> (type (list java.lang.String)) 
> > clojure.lang.PersistentList 
> > 
> > user=> (list java.lang.String) 
> > (java.lang.String) 
> > user=> '(java.lang.String) 
> > (java.lang.String) 
> > user=> (= *1 *2) 
> > false 
> > 
> > 
> > What am I missing? 
>
> user=> (type (first (list java.lang.String))) 
> java.lang.Class 
> user=> (type (first '(java.lang.String))) 
> clojure.lang.Symbol 
>
> -- 
> Timo 
>

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Re: Reactive Programming in Clojure

[Tilak Thapa]

+1

On Sunday, November 10, 2013 3:13:17 AM UTC+5:45, Marco Manzi wrote:
>
> Hi all, I'm a young clojure developer. I work as Java developer, but I've 
> falled in love with this fantastic language and I would like to help in 
> some way.
> Actually I'm following Principles of Reactive 
> Programming on 
> Coursera. It is all written in Scala, but I'm not that proficent on Scala, 
> so I'm following it in Clojure, I'm writing some posts on how I'll 
> following it.
> If anyone has the same need can follow me at 
> http://reactiveclojure.blogspot.it, there is also a github repository 
> where I'm posting the code to make the same assigment as in the coursera. 
> I appreciate any hint you can give.
> See you :)
>

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Re: (= '(java.lang.String) (list java.lang.String)) => false ?

[Ivan Pierre]

The problem with your quote is that you want to only quote the list but 
also eval the values in the list, well I think create a list w/o function 
call. (quote) as a special form will evaluate nothing... but you can force 
evaluation... :D

user=> (type (first `(~java.lang.String))) ; ! backquote
;=> java.lang.Class

So you better understand ` (backquote) that act as ' (quote), BUT evaluates 
~ (unquote) and splice-unquotes. 

If you'd try usig quote the same way, it doesn't work :

user=> (type (first '(~java.lang.String)))
;=> clojure.lang.PersistentList (?)

It begins clear if you ask :

user=> '(~java.lang.String)
:=> ((clojure.core/unquote java.lang.String))

With the quote the unquote is not evaluated...

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New Leiningen template for clojure and clojurescript project

[Mamun]

Hello

New Leiningen template for Clojure and Clojurescript project. This might 
helpful to them who are coming from rails like framework and would love to 
see first before coding.  

https://github.com/Mamun/web-app

Create new project:
lein new web-app hello

Run application:
lein ring server-headless


   - Complete web application template using *Compojure*,* Enlive, Anguler 
   js* with login, logout UI.
   - Standalone/Container based deployment.  
   - Clojure workflow for starting and stopping the application.
   - Emacs-live plugin to start/stop server, Clojure/Clojurescript repl 
   switch.
   - Method level dependency injection as application context. 
   - Feature-based package modeling.
   - Testing both Clojure and Clojurescript from emacs-live.



BR,
Mamun 


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Re: Does Pedestal have a future in the long run

[PublicFarley]

I hope that this time around the Pedestal talk will be recorded. The lack of 
any nice recorded video talks discussing Pedestal has been an additional 
barrier to entry.

- Farley 

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Re: Does Pedestal have a future in the long run

[Ryan Waters]

Thank you Saravana.  I'm finding a number of the posts David Nolen [1] has
written on his blog to be invaluable.  Once I figure out what mix of
libraries I'll be using I can let you know!

[1] http://swannodette.github.io/


On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Ryan Neufeld  wrote:

> Stuart Halloway is doing a presentation and we’ll be dumping a lot more
> new stuff into the repository. I made a mistake in saying we had an
> announcement, it’s more just that we’ll be talking more publicly about what
> we’re working on following next week.
>
> -Ryan
>
>
> On November 8, 2013 at 5:39:34 PM, Andreas Liljeqvist 
> (bon...@gmail.com)
> wrote:
>
>  Will there by any presentation on Pedestal, or just announcements?
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:38 AM, Ryan Neufeld wrote:
>
>> Speaking as a core Pedestal team member and engineer at Cognitect I can
>> say we are *very* serious about continuing to grow and support Pedestal.
>> It may be quiet, but we're using the entirety of Pedestal with a number of
>> client and are fervently preparing a number of new features and
>> improvements we plan to announce at the Conj next week. Further, we've even
>> begun selling commercial support that includes Pedestal[1].
>>
>> ClojureScript One was a huge influence on pedestal-app, but you're
>> completely right that we've abandoned it and should probably wind things
>> down there.
>>
>> Are there any other questions I can field while I'm here?
>>
>>  -Ryan
>>
>> [1]: http://cognitect.com/Cognitect-Support-Services.pdf
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, November 7, 2013 5:30:59 PM UTC-5, Marko Kocić wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'd like to hear opinions about Pedestal from the people that have been
>>> playing more with it. Right now I started looking at it, and like some of
>>> the things, but not sure should I invest more time learning it. While I do
>>> like some concepts, I'm not sure is it going to became abandonware like
>>> Clojurescript One (does anyone reemembers it anymore).
>>>
>>> So far, after initial splash, I haven't seen large community interest in
>>> it. The number of aproachable getting started guides and hands on tutorials
>>> is missing. That might change over time, but I'm afraid that next year this
>>> time we'll get another Clojurescript one page application framework not
>>> much related with Pedestal. How serious Cognitect/Relevance is about it?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Marko
>>>
>>> --
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To unsu

Re: Python doctest in clojure?

[dechouxb]

Yes, I did find that out later. Thanks a lot. That what was I was looking 
for.
It is indeed not exactly the same but close enough.

Bertrand

On Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:49:39 AM UTC+1, James Reeves wrote:
>
> The standard clojure.test namespace included in Clojure has this 
> functionality (or something very similar) by default.
>
> You can attach tests as metadata to a function, either like:
>
> (defn foo
>   {:test (fn [] (is (= (foo 1) 2)))}
>   [x]
>   (+ x 1))
>
> Or like:
>
> (with-test
>   (defn foo [x]
> (+ x 1))
>   (is (= (foo 1) 2)))
>
> - James
>
>
> On 9 November 2013 14:35, > wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> While reading about tests in Python, I found the doctest module : 
>> http://docs.python.org/3/library/doctest.html#module-doctest.
>>
>> Essentially, the idea is that the documentation of the function is 
>> parsed/evaluated. And if something looks like an example it is run and 
>> verified.
>> The neat consequence is that there is a verified working example in the 
>> documentation (ie with the implementation) that can be requested from the 
>> repl.
>>
>> In Clojure, it should be quite simple to do the same or add a specific 
>> meta to a function to separate the explanation and the example(s).
>> I was wondering if something like that already existed.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Bertrand
>>
>>
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Re: [ANN] Narrator: expressive, composable stream analysis

[Zach Tellman]

Riemann is a service for receiving streams of events, and causing one or
more side-effects (sending email, routing to Graphite, etc).  It can do
arbitrary transformations on event streams (the effects from an input may
be arbitrarily time shifted), and assumes that the inputs are fixed
structure (numbers, shallow maps, etc).

Narrator is a library for analyzing streams of events, and returns either a
single value representing the stream, or values representing fixed, regular
intervals within the stream.  The analysis can only on that interval (or
multiples of that interval, using 'moving').  Using the 'recur' operator,
it can do analysis on arbitrarily nested structures.

At Factual, we use both of these in tandem.  Since the trace data for
function call trees is arbitrarily nested, we use Narrator, and then
separate the data into flattened sub-parts, and pass it onto Riemann.  We
typically have a fixed set of functions that we're tracing (entry points
for HTTP requests, primarily), and automatically send them along via UDP to
Omphalos [1].  Obviously the instrumented functions that are called in the
process of creating a response may change, this is within the control of
the authors of the libraries we use.

Does this answer all your questions?  I'm happy to elaborate on any of the
above.

Zach

[1] This is discussed in more detail here:
http://www.infoq.com/presentations/analyze-running-system


On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 3:03 AM, dm3  wrote:

> I've read about Lamina and Narrator, watched the linked videos and I think
> I understand how it all fits together:
>
> 1) Instrument the applications using Lamina's `instrument` or `trace`
> 2) Probe the instrumented code somehow by channeling the traces to some
> endpoint (how do you do this? do you automatically probe everything and
> channel to some remote service? Do you have some method of dynamically
> enabling/disabling probes on your services (e.g. embedded repl or some
> management endpoint)?
> 3) Analyze the traces remotely using Narrator + networking code + a UI
> (that's the gist of the Omphalos as I've understood). If so, what would you
> say is the largest difference between Riemann's[1] stream analysis
> functionality and what is provided by Narrator? Would you say that Omphalos
> and Riemann serve completely different puproses?
>
> Am I on the right track?
>
> [1] http://riemann.io/
>
>
> On Sunday, 3 November 2013 00:28:27 UTC+2, Zach Tellman wrote:
>>
>> https://github.com/ztellman/narrator
>>
>> This is a reimplementation of an approach I've discussed in several talks
>> [1] [2], with an eye towards performance, memory efficiency, and
>> flexibility w.r.t. how the event stream is represented.  The readme does a
>> good job of explaining how it works, but there have been a number of new
>> event processing libraries recently (core.async, EEP, etc.), so I'll spend
>> some time here describing how this differs.
>>
>> First, this library is focused on aggregations over event streams, not
>> arbitrary transformations.  It is designed such that these aggregations can
>> be automatically parallelized, and use non-thread-safe data structures
>> (such as those in the excellent stream-lib [3]) without having to worry
>> about coordination.  As such, within this narrower application it has a
>> richer set of operators, and should be a fair bit faster (millions of
>> messages/sec/core).
>>
>> Second, this has support for time-series analysis of ordered streams,
>> either historical or in real time.  The input for either type of analysis
>> can be normal sequences, core.async channels, or Lamina channels. At
>> Factual we use this for aggregations across many of our real-time systems,
>> and I also use it for both ad hoc queries and daily rollups of logs and
>> other historical data.
>>
>> On a personal note, I think this is one of the most interesting and
>> useful libraries I've written.  I'm really looking forward to seeing how
>> people use it, and encourage feedback on how to make it better.
>>
>> Zach
>>
>> [1] http://www.infoq.com/presentations/analyze-running-system
>> [2] http://vimeo.com/45132054#!
>> [3] https://github.com/addthis/stream-lib
>>
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Re: What font is used for Clojure on clojure.org?

[Alex Baranosky]

Where I'm from the notion of cider in a champagne glass is a little
ludicrous. =)  But I guess maybe they're thinking of an alcoholic cider,
and I'm thinking more of the winter holiday season spiced warm cider in a
mug??


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 6:17 AM, Tim Visher  wrote:

> Cider _is_ nrepl.el at this point, essentially, so any screencast
> documenting nrepl.el would get you most of the way there.
>
> Also, Cider is _unstable_ at this point. I'm still using nrepl 0.2.0
> and it's working fine. I would _not_ recommend upgrading to Cider at
> this point.
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Erlis Vidal  wrote:
> > And what about the screencasts?
> >
> > On Nov 7, 2013 8:34 AM, "Tim Visher"  wrote:
> >>
> >> It's funny that in the comments bbatsov and I have already explored
> >> this space a bit. :)
> >>
> >> It seems like everyone has a different experience of drinking cider.
> >> I've never drank cider in anything but cups or mugs, and hot cider is
> >> always served in a mug in my circles. While it seems like other people
> >> have only ever drank it from champagne glasses. I wonder if this'll be
> >> a consistent source of confusion. :)
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:04 AM, Erlis Vidal 
> wrote:
> >> > Is there any screen cast that shows how to use Cider? I would like to
> >> > see it
> >> > in action.
> >> >
> >> > I really liked this logo
> >> >
> https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/399#issuecomment-27805491
> >> > I
> >> > think it blends the Cider concept with the clojure characters ... the
> >> > other
> >> > are more colorful but really it looks like a coffee mug.
> >> >
> >> > Great Job!
> >> >
> >> > Erlis
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Tim Visher 
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks, Tom!
> >> >>
> >> >> Here's what I did with it:
> >> >>
> https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/399#issuecomment-27878950
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Tom Hickey 
> wrote:
> >> >> > Hi Tim,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > That is Avenir 65 Medium.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Cheers,
> >> >> > Tom Hickey
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Wednesday, November 6, 2013 11:06:24 AM UTC-5, Tim Visher wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I'm looking for it to incorporate it into a cIDEr logo I'm playing
> >> >> >> with.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> In Christ,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Timmy V.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> http://blog.twonegatives.com/
> >> >> >> http://five.sentenc.es/ -- Spend less time on mail
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > --
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Want to translate the ClojureCheetSheet in Japanese.

[竹内景太郎]

Hello everyone,I am a Clojure user in Japan.

I think for beginners Clojure in Japan, you want published on the site 
ClojureCheetSheet you have Japanese translation, but I would be all right.

Thanks in advance.

Keitaro Takeuchi


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Re: Want to translate the ClojureCheetSheet in Japanese.

[Andy Fingerhut]

I am the current maintainer of the Clojure Cheat Sheet, and certainly have
no objections if anyone wishes to translate it into other languages.

Most of the content of the cheat sheet are the Clojure symbols themselves,
the documentation strings that come with Clojure 1.5.1, and links to the
ClojureDocs.org web site for examples.

At the very least, you would probably want to translate the documentation
strings into another language, and perhaps the names of the symbols
themselves.  If you would like to do that translation, I am now looking
into a straightforward way to change all built-in doc strings of a running
Clojure process to alternate doc strings (it is simply doing alter-meta! on
the Clojure symbols of the functions and macros, which is easy).  If you do
that, I could generate a version of the Clojure cheat sheet web page with
those translated doc strings and either link to it from my Github web page,
or perhaps even from clojure.org/cheatsheet.

Andy


On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 5:28 PM, 竹内景太郎  wrote:

> Hello everyone,I am a Clojure user in Japan.
>
> I think for beginners Clojure in Japan, you want published on the site
> ClojureCheetSheet you have Japanese translation, but I would be all right.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Keitaro Takeuchi
>
>
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Re: Does Pedestal have a future in the long run

[Cedric Greevey]

IMO it can often be a lack of readable, searchable, nice-to-navigate
text/hypertext that can be a barrier to entry. In fact all of these are
unfortunately common in various parts of the geekosphere:

1. Projects whose *only* documentation (or the only version of certain key
information) is in videos. Not searchable. Not easy to navigate to a
particular part (need to remember roughly when it is, or rewatch half the
thing). Expensive for mobile users with capped or per-megabyte data plans.

2. Projects whose *only* documentation is reference-type material that does
not introduce the library/whatever to total n00bs. A common case is for
there to be beautifully detailed Javadoc for every public class, method,
and constant in some Java library, but nothing to give a n00b a clue as to
where to start using it. Sometimes it's fairly obvious (there's a problem
domain class Foo that it makes sense to instantiate first, and that class
has a public constructor, has a public static getInstance method, or sits
next to a FooFactory class in the same package, and this is
well-documented) but often it's not. Regardless, it would be preferable for
there to be a "getting started" guide. With a textual version that can be
searched with grep or other tools.

3. Projects whose *only* documentation is a getting-started guide, tour,
tutorial, or similar. When one knows the basic patterns of usage but wants
to recall the argument order for the (burbling-mumblefrotz ...) function,
having to find where it was introduced in a tutorial (which chapter? The
one on mumbling or the one on burbling? Near the start, middle, or end?
Page 2 or 29???) is a pain in the neck. A reference is organized
differently, for making a specific known entity easy to re-find. Javadocs
and Clojure docstrings are good for this.

In particular:

* Every key fact, example, or other piece of documentation should exist
somewhere in a form that Google can find on the web and grep can find in
your local copy if you make one. And that local copy shouldn't cost a
fortune to download and a ton-lot of disk space to keep, nor should it be a
pain in the ass to scroll forward and backward through. Ideally, it should
be browseable on a fairly low-spec machine if need be, as well, even one
that makes video playback stutter at 3 FPS.

* There needs to be two differently organized written forms of
documentation: one oriented around discovering how to do X, for people that
don't know the name of the function, class, method, or other entity that
does X; and one oriented around specifying precisely the usage, behavior,
and applicable preconditions/gotchas/etc. of a particular function, method,
class, or whatever that one *does* know the name to. The latter is
typically partly machine-generated and organized hierarchically and
alphabetically by package/namespace and name. The former tends to be mainly
human-authored and often linear, or at most a few branches, of exposition,
which shows how the parts are interrelated and how to build up from those
parts to useful working systems of some sort.

Videos do have their uses, but should not be regarded as *substitutes* for
either written reference documentation or written tutorial documentation,
and the latter are not substitutes for one another. I'd regard a lack of
good *written* introductory material as a much worse barrier to entry than
a lack of good videos, where the subject matter lends itself to textual
exposition (math, programming). (That last restriction of scope is
necessary; no amount of written material telling people how to play golf,
for instance, is likely to beat a good video showing a proper stance and
backswing. Gross motor skills in general benefit strongly from, at minimum,
video clips of key moves/actions. Most things benefit from the occasional
illustrative still image, however.)



On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Ryan Waters  wrote:

> Thank you Saravana.  I'm finding a number of the posts David Nolen [1]
> has written on his blog to be invaluable.  Once I figure out what mix of
> libraries I'll be using I can let you know!
>
> [1] http://swannodette.github.io/
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Ryan Neufeld  wrote:
>
>> Stuart Halloway is doing a presentation and we’ll be dumping a lot more
>> new stuff into the repository. I made a mistake in saying we had an
>> announcement, it’s more just that we’ll be talking more publicly about what
>> we’re working on following next week.
>>
>> -Ryan
>>
>>
>> On November 8, 2013 at 5:39:34 PM, Andreas Liljeqvist 
>> (bon...@gmail.com)
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Will there by any presentation on Pedestal, or just announcements?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:38 AM, Ryan Neufeld wrote:
>>
>>> Speaking as a core Pedestal team member and engineer at Cognitect I can
>>> say we are *very* serious about continuing to grow and support
>>> Pedestal. It may be quiet, but we're using the entirety of Pedestal with a
>>> number of client and are fervently preparing a number of new fea

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Re: Does Pedestal have a future in the long run

[Mark Engelberg]

Recently, when I decided to investigate Pedestal for a project, I was
surprised to discover that it isn't supported on Windows.   I can't say
whether lack of cross-platform support will have any impact on Pedestal's
long-term viability, but it ruled Pedestal out for me.

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