Re: slackpocalypse?

[Colin Yates]

I've only been skimming this but "analysis paralysis" comes to mind :-).
What is the harm in establishing a presence in matrix (bagsy the "neo"
handle) and letting people know? As has been said, people will vote with
their feet so if in a months time matrix is a Clojure ghost town then
lesson learned.

Or, if I have missed some pertinent fact then by all means, sigh, tut and
mutter "sheesh, these drive by commenters are annoying" :-).

On Wednesday, 24 May 2017, Herwig Hochleitner 
wrote:

> 2017-05-23 23:04 GMT+02:00 Colin Fleming  >:
>
>> On 24 May 2017 at 00:13, Herwig Hochleitner > > wrote:
>>
>>> I doubt the whole community would want to move anywhere from Slack.
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps this will have to wait until Slack inevitably throws us off, then.
>>
>>
> What I'm saying is, that the whole community isn't in a single place
> anyway. Slack happens to be most popular, right now, but we are spread
> across IRC, gitter / github, slack, mailing lists, discord, stack overflow,
> reddit and probably many more.
>
> IMO trying to move everybody to one thing is an exercise in futility, but
> consuming / producing to / from all those places through a generic protocol
> is a realistic hope, as matrix is proving right now.
>
> It's a far cry from searching for "cursive" from anywhere in Clojurians,
>> though. Searching for channels based on some vague criteria seemed
>> difficult, and searching for Clojure related content across channels is
>> also a pretty bad experience.
>>
>
> Granted, matrix' search facilities are far from optimal, as of now. But
> unlike the alternatives, just about everybody could be (and somebody
> probably is) improving on that.
>
> There has been some talk of making a Clojure-related room directory in an
>> external webpage or something but it's still a kludge. I'm not sure to what
>> extent this would be fixed if we ran our own room server, but then someone
>> has to maintain that.
>>
>
> Same. This is currently being worked on: https://github.com/vector-
> im/riot-web/issues/2454
>
> I'd just like to mention, that in the year or so, that I've been using
> matrix, the stream of improvements has been pretty steady. So while it
> might not currently do everything we need, it's the best hope for bridging
> the community across all the various services that (will continue to) exist.
>
> 2017-05-23 23:31 GMT+02:00 Alan Moore  >:
>
>> I watched the matrix video linked above and it seems there is a Slack
>> bridge that would allow Slack fans to stay put and others to choose their
>> own client or even go back to IRC. What am I missing?
>>
>
> The slack bridge is working fine, but slack has a nagging limitation of
> one bridged room per organization or some "monetization incentive" like
> that.
>
> If slack allowed a full bridge, "slackpocalypse" and its message limit
> would already be a solved problem. Such are the ways of proprietary
> services ...
>
> I too have no skin in this game... I still prefer this mailing list, as is
>> self evident. I suppose I could build a matrix bridge for Google Groups.
>>
>
> related: https://github.com/turt2live/matrix-email-bot
>
> On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 2:22 PM, Andy Fingerhut > > wrote:
>>
>>> I have no skin in this game, but wasn't the move to Slack pretty much a
>>> "vote with your feet" combined with word of mouth advertising?  It seems to
>>> me the same could happen to add another on-line chat tool/system, without
>>> anyone taking a poll/voting on this or any other medium.  We'll know when
>>> it has happened by the rumor mill on Slack, IRC, and/or this email group.
>>>
>>
> Agreed, hence I advertise matrix because I hope more people will see it as
> a way, better than just a different silo.
> If "feet" will still choose a silo, there'll be a matrix bridge, as good
> as silo allows. Hence the risk of choosing wrong is minimized for everybody
> switching to matrix.
>
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Re: slackpocalypse?

[Herwig Hochleitner]

2017-05-23 23:04 GMT+02:00 Colin Fleming :

> On 24 May 2017 at 00:13, Herwig Hochleitner 
>  wrote:
>
>> I doubt the whole community would want to move anywhere from Slack.
>>
>
> Perhaps this will have to wait until Slack inevitably throws us off, then.
>
>
What I'm saying is, that the whole community isn't in a single place
anyway. Slack happens to be most popular, right now, but we are spread
across IRC, gitter / github, slack, mailing lists, discord, stack overflow,
reddit and probably many more.

IMO trying to move everybody to one thing is an exercise in futility, but
consuming / producing to / from all those places through a generic protocol
is a realistic hope, as matrix is proving right now.

It's a far cry from searching for "cursive" from anywhere in Clojurians,
> though. Searching for channels based on some vague criteria seemed
> difficult, and searching for Clojure related content across channels is
> also a pretty bad experience.
>

Granted, matrix' search facilities are far from optimal, as of now. But
unlike the alternatives, just about everybody could be (and somebody
probably is) improving on that.

There has been some talk of making a Clojure-related room directory in an
> external webpage or something but it's still a kludge. I'm not sure to what
> extent this would be fixed if we ran our own room server, but then someone
> has to maintain that.
>

Same. This is currently being worked on:
https://github.com/vector-im/riot-web/issues/2454

I'd just like to mention, that in the year or so, that I've been using
matrix, the stream of improvements has been pretty steady. So while it
might not currently do everything we need, it's the best hope for bridging
the community across all the various services that (will continue to) exist.

2017-05-23 23:31 GMT+02:00 Alan Moore :

> I watched the matrix video linked above and it seems there is a Slack
> bridge that would allow Slack fans to stay put and others to choose their
> own client or even go back to IRC. What am I missing?
>

The slack bridge is working fine, but slack has a nagging limitation of one
bridged room per organization or some "monetization incentive" like that.

If slack allowed a full bridge, "slackpocalypse" and its message limit
would already be a solved problem. Such are the ways of proprietary
services ...

I too have no skin in this game... I still prefer this mailing list, as is
> self evident. I suppose I could build a matrix bridge for Google Groups.
>

related: https://github.com/turt2live/matrix-email-bot

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 2:22 PM, Andy Fingerhut 
> wrote:
>
>> I have no skin in this game, but wasn't the move to Slack pretty much a
>> "vote with your feet" combined with word of mouth advertising?  It seems to
>> me the same could happen to add another on-line chat tool/system, without
>> anyone taking a poll/voting on this or any other medium.  We'll know when
>> it has happened by the rumor mill on Slack, IRC, and/or this email group.
>>
>
Agreed, hence I advertise matrix because I hope more people will see it as
a way, better than just a different silo.
If "feet" will still choose a silo, there'll be a matrix bridge, as good as
silo allows. Hence the risk of choosing wrong is minimized for everybody
switching to matrix.

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Re: Data expansion alternatives and idioms

[Steve Buikhuizen]

>
> I wanted to understand the techniques used for DSL expansion so I did a 
> talk at the Sydney Clojure Meetup on it. Slides are here if you are 
> interested.
>

http://tiny.cc/data-macros 

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Re: slackpocalypse?

[Alan Moore]

I watched the matrix video linked above and it seems there is a Slack
bridge that would allow Slack fans to stay put and others to choose their
own client or even go back to IRC. What am I missing?

I too have no skin in this game... I still prefer this mailing list, as is
self evident. I suppose I could build a matrix bridge for Google Groups.

Alan

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 2:22 PM, Andy Fingerhut 
wrote:

> I have no skin in this game, but wasn't the move to Slack pretty much a
> "vote with your feet" combined with word of mouth advertising?  It seems to
> me the same could happen to add another on-line chat tool/system, without
> anyone taking a poll/voting on this or any other medium.  We'll know when
> it has happened by the rumor mill on Slack, IRC, and/or this email group.
>
> Andy
>
> On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Colin Fleming <
> colin.mailingl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 24 May 2017 at 00:13, Herwig Hochleitner 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I doubt the whole community would want to move anywhere from Slack.
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps this will have to wait until Slack inevitably throws us off, then.
>>
>> What would you need to solve your discoverability issues (a)? Isn't it as
>>> easy as handing out a link like https://riot.im/app/#/roo
>>> m/#clojure-community:matrix.org ? Not even registration needed.
>>>
>>
>> It's a far cry from searching for "cursive" from anywhere in Clojurians,
>> though. Searching for channels based on some vague criteria seemed
>> difficult, and searching for Clojure related content across channels is
>> also a pretty bad experience. There has been some talk of making a
>> Clojure-related room directory in an external webpage or something but it's
>> still a kludge. I'm not sure to what extent this would be fixed if we ran
>> our own room server, but then someone has to maintain that.
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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For 

Re: slackpocalypse?

[Andy Fingerhut]

I have no skin in this game, but wasn't the move to Slack pretty much a
"vote with your feet" combined with word of mouth advertising?  It seems to
me the same could happen to add another on-line chat tool/system, without
anyone taking a poll/voting on this or any other medium.  We'll know when
it has happened by the rumor mill on Slack, IRC, and/or this email group.

Andy

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Colin Fleming 
wrote:

> On 24 May 2017 at 00:13, Herwig Hochleitner 
> wrote:
>
>> I doubt the whole community would want to move anywhere from Slack.
>>
>
> Perhaps this will have to wait until Slack inevitably throws us off, then.
>
> What would you need to solve your discoverability issues (a)? Isn't it as
>> easy as handing out a link like https://riot.im/app/#/roo
>> m/#clojure-community:matrix.org ? Not even registration needed.
>>
>
> It's a far cry from searching for "cursive" from anywhere in Clojurians,
> though. Searching for channels based on some vague criteria seemed
> difficult, and searching for Clojure related content across channels is
> also a pretty bad experience. There has been some talk of making a
> Clojure-related room directory in an external webpage or something but it's
> still a kludge. I'm not sure to what extent this would be fixed if we ran
> our own room server, but then someone has to maintain that.
>
>
>
>> --
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>
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Re: slackpocalypse?

[Colin Fleming]

On 24 May 2017 at 00:13, Herwig Hochleitner  wrote:

> I doubt the whole community would want to move anywhere from Slack.
>

Perhaps this will have to wait until Slack inevitably throws us off, then.

What would you need to solve your discoverability issues (a)? Isn't it as
> easy as handing out a link like https://riot.im/app/#/
> room/#clojure-community:matrix.org ? Not even registration needed.
>

It's a far cry from searching for "cursive" from anywhere in Clojurians,
though. Searching for channels based on some vague criteria seemed
difficult, and searching for Clojure related content across channels is
also a pretty bad experience. There has been some talk of making a
Clojure-related room directory in an external webpage or something but it's
still a kludge. I'm not sure to what extent this would be fixed if we ran
our own room server, but then someone has to maintain that.



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Re: Starting with Clojure

[Sean Corfield]

Also http://blog.cognitect.com/blog/2017/1/31/state-of-clojure-2016-results 
which shows industry breakdown and many other interesting statistics about 
Clojure (based on community survey responses).

 

Sean Corfield -- (970) FOR-SEAN -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

 

On 5/9/17, 4:17 AM, "clojure@googlegroups.com on behalf of 
adrian.med...@mail.yu.edu"  wrote:

 

https://clojure.org/community/companies

 

https://clojure.org/community/community_stories

 

Might be insightful for you. Clojure has plenty of commercial use. 

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 3:59:33 AM UTC-4, Kristian Koci wrote:

Hello community

I'm getting started with Clojure, seems like an exciting language, I've been 
into LISP many years ago, so I think is really cool to have such a language 
running on top of the jvm.

Anyways, I'll love to know in which industries is Clojure used the most?

Is there any example/name?

I'm just curious to know, if besides the exciting 
functional/experimental/scientific side, is there any significant steps forward 
in business :)

Thanks in advance!

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Re: [ANN] Eastwood, the Clojure lint tool, version 0.2.4 released

[Andy Fingerhut]

Eastwood analyzes your code to look for constructs that might be errors.

Kibit analyzes code to look for places where you could use Clojure macros
or functions that may make your code shorter, or more idiomatic.

Andy

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:16 AM, Travis Daudelin 
wrote:

>  Hi, thanks for posting this looks great!
>
> Is there any overlap in functionality between Eastwood and Kibit
> ? It's not clear to me which tool I
> should prefer nor when.
>
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Re: [ANN] Eastwood, the Clojure lint tool, version 0.2.4 released

[Travis Daudelin]

 Hi, thanks for posting this looks great!

Is there any overlap in functionality between Eastwood and Kibit 
? It's not clear to me which tool I should 
prefer nor when.

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Re: slackpocalypse?

[Herwig Hochleitner]

2017-05-23 12:19 GMT+02:00 Colin Fleming :

>  I doubt the whole community would want to move there from Slack
>

I doubt the whole community would want to move anywhere from Slack.

my main requirements are that a) people can find me easily, b) everything
> works with no hassle and c) old conversations don't disappear. Matrix fails
> pretty badly on a), is ok with some serious usability issues on b) and is
> ok for c), modulo that searching is a pain (can either search a single room
> or all rooms, not all Clojure-related ones).
>

What would you need to solve your discoverability issues (a)? Isn't it as
easy as handing out a link like
https://riot.im/app/#/room/#clojure-community:matrix.org ? Not even
registration needed.

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Re: slackpocalypse?

[Colin Fleming]

There's been a lot of discussion around this, there's a page about the
possibility of moving to Matrix here:
https://hackpad.com/The-case-for-Matrix-xRXYSO9zpyh. While it has some nice
properties (decentralised, open, can be encrypted etc) it comes at a
serious usability cost. I doubt the whole community would want to move
there from Slack.

Personally I'd prefer Discord, since I use these things for support and my
main requirements are that a) people can find me easily, b) everything
works with no hassle and c) old conversations don't disappear. Matrix fails
pretty badly on a), is ok with some serious usability issues on b) and is
ok for c), modulo that searching is a pain (can either search a single room
or all rooms, not all Clojure-related ones).

Really, my only actual problem with Slack is the disappearing messages, but
that is bad enough that I definitely think we should move. I vote Discord.

On 23 May 2017 at 19:40, Herwig Hochleitner  wrote:

> 2017-05-22 15:50 GMT+02:00 Gregg Reynolds :
>
>>
>> Took a closer look - now I remember where I saw matrix before, they
>> participate in tadhacks .  It's not really an
>> app, much more ambitious than that.  Definitely deserves a closer look.
>>
>
> Yes, it's a decentralized persistent chat protocol with bridging between
> silos in mind. This current talk does a pretty good job of explaining it:
> https://ftp.heanet.ie/mirrors/fosdem-video/2017/
> Janson/encrypting_matrix.mp4
>
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Re: slackpocalypse?

[Herwig Hochleitner]

2017-05-22 15:50 GMT+02:00 Gregg Reynolds :

>
> Took a closer look - now I remember where I saw matrix before, they
> participate in tadhacks .  It's not really an
> app, much more ambitious than that.  Definitely deserves a closer look.
>

Yes, it's a decentralized persistent chat protocol with bridging between
silos in mind. This current talk does a pretty good job of explaining it:
https://ftp.heanet.ie/mirrors/fosdem-video/2017/Janson/encrypting_matrix.mp4

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