Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[Christopher Small]

There's an onyx-kafka plugin I believe, so you should be in luck!

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 10:25 PM, Derek Troy-West 
wrote:

> I still have Storm topologies in prod, but I'm investigating Kafka Streams
> and Onyx right now.
>
>
> On Saturday, July 1, 2017 at 9:38:08 AM UTC+10, Bobby Calderwood wrote:
>>
>> Onyx is super cool, has matured substantially, and has a great team
>> behind it.
>>
>> I've also had success building with Kafka (and its ecosystem libraries
>> Kafka Connect and Kafka Streams) and Datomic.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Bobby
>>
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Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[Derek Troy-West]

I still have Storm topologies in prod, but I'm investigating Kafka Streams 
and Onyx right now.

On Saturday, July 1, 2017 at 9:38:08 AM UTC+10, Bobby Calderwood wrote:
>
> Onyx is super cool, has matured substantially, and has a great team behind 
> it.
>
> I've also had success building with Kafka (and its ecosystem libraries 
> Kafka Connect and Kafka Streams) and Datomic.
>
> Cheers,
> Bobby
>
>

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Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[Bobby Calderwood]

Onyx is super cool, has matured substantially, and has a great team behind it.

I've also had success building with Kafka (and its ecosystem libraries Kafka 
Connect and Kafka Streams) and Datomic.

Cheers,
Bobby

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Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[Christopher Small]

I'd have to know a little bit more about the specifics of your message
driven architecture to say for sure, but in general I'd still highly
recommend Onyx over Storm. In the last two years the Distributed Masonry
crew have done a TON of fabulous work with Onyx, including closing the
performance gap (maybe someone can chime in here about the current sate of
that gap) by switching to Aeron for message passing (the old version used
HornetMQ I believe). It's also significantly more battle tested now, and
the team just recently got $500k for building out tooling and services
around Onyx. There are also quite a few new features, like improved
agregation support, and so on. They also implemented a runtime for onyx
jobs in cljc, meaning you can test out jobs locally without all the
overhead of firing up zookeeper! EVEN IN THE BROWSER! Imagine that;
dynamically building and testing (with small data) a distributed system in
the browser via some domain-specific UI, and then pushing it to the cluster
when you're ready to let her rip... Nothing like this exists for Storm or
any of the other competitors in this space. I've even heard some dashing
and enterprizing group of fellows are considering building a re-frame-esque
event-driven UI system using Onyx. Who knows? The future is bright.

Chris

PS; Conflict of Interest Disclaimer: I have recieved no moneys or favors
from Distributed Masonry for frequent and prefuse recommendation of their
products. They're just that cool.


On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Matan  wrote:

> This thread is a bit old, but it's seen two year awakenings before... and
> still shows up high in google searches.
> I wonder how you folks see it now. Onyx is a bit older by now, and not
> much seems new out there. What would you choose for reliable and resilient
> distributed computing with clojure, if you had to start over at this time?
> in particular, for a message driven architecture not a streaming one.
>
>
> On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 3:52:44 AM UTC+3, Derek Troy-West wrote:
>>
>> We use Storm/Trident fairly extensively for distributed computation, it
>> has not been painless and the documentation is poor, however it does
>> perform well once you understand its peculiarities. I'm keeping an
>> interested eye on Onyx but my bandwidth is fairly limited at the moment.
>>
>> The only things I would add to your post are:
>>
>> * It's possible to write Storm and Trident topologies purely in Clojure,
>> in fact parts of Storm were originally written in Clojure. I'm not sure the
>> DSL were an afterthought, but I agree they are fairly impenetrable at
>> first. Storm has a large learning curve and lots of quirks, and the
>> documentation is pretty bad (in-fact, completely wrong in parts).
>>
>> * Storm is currently limited to Clojure 1.5.1, thought the latest beta
>> release has been updated to 1.6.0
>>
>> * Recently the momentum of the project appears to have picked up, but
>> certainly for a while there (just after apache incubation) it appeared a
>> bit stagnant. I presume they were busy settling the project in.
>>
>>
>> On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 3:11:24 AM UTC+10, Christopher Small wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll also add that if you're interested in the Storm model (distributed
>>> stream processing), you may want to check out Onyx (
>>> https://github.com/onyx-platform/onyx). It's newer, but I have a
>>> feeling that moving forward we're going to see it take a dominant position
>>> as far as that flavor of distributed computing goes. The reasons for this
>>> (briefly):
>>>
>>> * Data all the topologies: Because computational topologies are data
>>> structures, it's far simpler to have more dynamic computational workflows
>>> than with storms opaque macros.
>>> * It's more Clojure centric: Parts of Storm are Clojure, but the Clojure
>>> API seems almost an afterthought, reading the documentation. (However,
>>> support is on the way for other JVM languages).
>>> * Pace of development: Storm is now an Apache Incubator project, and
>>> development is slower than molasses. I was working on a project for over a
>>> year and many times encountered issues with stale dependencies that didn't
>>> play nicely with newer things.
>>> * Designed with batch processing in mind: Even though both are designed
>>> around streaming first, Onyx has a little more explicit support for batched
>>> computations.
>>>
>>> For a while, the biggest advantage of Storm was that it was a lot
>>> faster, but the gap there has closed considerably recently (perhaps
>>> entirely?). Storm is still more battle tested, but there are folks starting
>>> to use it in production.
>>>
>>> The biggest reason I see Onyx taking sway over Storm is the data centric
>>> approach. I see this resonating with the community's "data all the things"
>>> philosophy as a way of maximizing composability and productivity.
>>> Anecdotally, folks using Onyx are already saying this about it.
>>>
>>> My 2 c
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, July 19, 2015

Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[Matan]

This thread is a bit old, but it's seen two year awakenings before... and 
still shows up high in google searches.
I wonder how you folks see it now. Onyx is a bit older by now, and not much 
seems new out there. What would you choose for reliable and resilient 
distributed computing with clojure, if you had to start over at this time? 
in particular, for a message driven architecture not a streaming one.


On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 3:52:44 AM UTC+3, Derek Troy-West wrote:
>
> We use Storm/Trident fairly extensively for distributed computation, it 
> has not been painless and the documentation is poor, however it does 
> perform well once you understand its peculiarities. I'm keeping an 
> interested eye on Onyx but my bandwidth is fairly limited at the moment.
>
> The only things I would add to your post are:
>
> * It's possible to write Storm and Trident topologies purely in Clojure, 
> in fact parts of Storm were originally written in Clojure. I'm not sure the 
> DSL were an afterthought, but I agree they are fairly impenetrable at 
> first. Storm has a large learning curve and lots of quirks, and the 
> documentation is pretty bad (in-fact, completely wrong in parts).
>
> * Storm is currently limited to Clojure 1.5.1, thought the latest beta 
> release has been updated to 1.6.0
>
> * Recently the momentum of the project appears to have picked up, but 
> certainly for a while there (just after apache incubation) it appeared a 
> bit stagnant. I presume they were busy settling the project in.
>
>
> On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 3:11:24 AM UTC+10, Christopher Small wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'll also add that if you're interested in the Storm model (distributed 
>> stream processing), you may want to check out Onyx (
>> https://github.com/onyx-platform/onyx). It's newer, but I have a feeling 
>> that moving forward we're going to see it take a dominant position as far 
>> as that flavor of distributed computing goes. The reasons for this 
>> (briefly):
>>
>> * Data all the topologies: Because computational topologies are data 
>> structures, it's far simpler to have more dynamic computational workflows 
>> than with storms opaque macros.
>> * It's more Clojure centric: Parts of Storm are Clojure, but the Clojure 
>> API seems almost an afterthought, reading the documentation. (However, 
>> support is on the way for other JVM languages).
>> * Pace of development: Storm is now an Apache Incubator project, and 
>> development is slower than molasses. I was working on a project for over a 
>> year and many times encountered issues with stale dependencies that didn't 
>> play nicely with newer things.
>> * Designed with batch processing in mind: Even though both are designed 
>> around streaming first, Onyx has a little more explicit support for batched 
>> computations.
>>
>> For a while, the biggest advantage of Storm was that it was a lot faster, 
>> but the gap there has closed considerably recently (perhaps entirely?). 
>> Storm is still more battle tested, but there are folks starting to use it 
>> in production.
>>
>> The biggest reason I see Onyx taking sway over Storm is the data centric 
>> approach. I see this resonating with the community's "data all the things" 
>> philosophy as a way of maximizing composability and productivity. 
>> Anecdotally, folks using Onyx are already saying this about it.
>>
>> My 2 c
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 9:38:09 AM UTC-7, Devin Walters (devn) wrote:
>>>
>>> http://docs.paralleluniverse.co/pulsar/ is out there. I can't say I've 
>>> used it in anger, but I did enjoy experimenting with it.
>>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 11:24 AM Colin Yates  wrote:
>>>
 I don’t have anything to add at that scale, but I wanted to echo 
 Stuart’s comment about the serialisability of EDN. Moving EDN between the 
 front and back tiers  on our app has cut down a bunch of boilerplate. That 
 principle can scale across machines as well.

 On 19 Jul 2015, at 16:54, Stuart Sierra  wrote:

 Absolutely would use again. But I'm biased towards Clojure already. :)
 –S

 On Sunday, July 19, 2015 09goral wrote:
>
> Thanks Stuart for your answer, it is very helpfull. Would you choose 
> Clojure again ?
>
> 2015-07-19 17:13 GMT+02:00 Stuart Sierra:
>
>>
>> This is an old thread, but it showed up in my Google Groups so I 
>> figured I would give an answer.
>>
>> I have worked on fairly large (10-50 machines) distributed systems 
>> written entirely in Clojure
>>
>
 -- 
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Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[Derek Troy-West]

We use Storm/Trident fairly extensively for distributed computation, it has 
not been painless and the documentation is poor, however it does perform 
well once you understand its peculiarities. I'm keeping an interested eye 
on Onyx but my bandwidth is fairly limited at the moment.

The only things I would add to your post are:

* It's possible to write Storm and Trident topologies purely in Clojure, in 
fact parts of Storm were originally written in Clojure. I'm not sure the 
DSL were an afterthought, but I agree they are fairly impenetrable at 
first. Storm has a large learning curve and lots of quirks, and the 
documentation is pretty bad (in-fact, completely wrong in parts).

* Storm is currently limited to Clojure 1.5.1, thought the latest beta 
release has been updated to 1.6.0

* Recently the momentum of the project appears to have picked up, but 
certainly for a while there (just after apache incubation) it appeared a 
bit stagnant. I presume they were busy settling the project in.


On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 3:11:24 AM UTC+10, Christopher Small wrote:
>
>
> I'll also add that if you're interested in the Storm model (distributed 
> stream processing), you may want to check out Onyx (
> https://github.com/onyx-platform/onyx). It's newer, but I have a feeling 
> that moving forward we're going to see it take a dominant position as far 
> as that flavor of distributed computing goes. The reasons for this 
> (briefly):
>
> * Data all the topologies: Because computational topologies are data 
> structures, it's far simpler to have more dynamic computational workflows 
> than with storms opaque macros.
> * It's more Clojure centric: Parts of Storm are Clojure, but the Clojure 
> API seems almost an afterthought, reading the documentation. (However, 
> support is on the way for other JVM languages).
> * Pace of development: Storm is now an Apache Incubator project, and 
> development is slower than molasses. I was working on a project for over a 
> year and many times encountered issues with stale dependencies that didn't 
> play nicely with newer things.
> * Designed with batch processing in mind: Even though both are designed 
> around streaming first, Onyx has a little more explicit support for batched 
> computations.
>
> For a while, the biggest advantage of Storm was that it was a lot faster, 
> but the gap there has closed considerably recently (perhaps entirely?). 
> Storm is still more battle tested, but there are folks starting to use it 
> in production.
>
> The biggest reason I see Onyx taking sway over Storm is the data centric 
> approach. I see this resonating with the community's "data all the things" 
> philosophy as a way of maximizing composability and productivity. 
> Anecdotally, folks using Onyx are already saying this about it.
>
> My 2 c
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 9:38:09 AM UTC-7, Devin Walters (devn) wrote:
>>
>> http://docs.paralleluniverse.co/pulsar/ is out there. I can't say I've 
>> used it in anger, but I did enjoy experimenting with it.
>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 11:24 AM Colin Yates  wrote:
>>
>>> I don’t have anything to add at that scale, but I wanted to echo 
>>> Stuart’s comment about the serialisability of EDN. Moving EDN between the 
>>> front and back tiers  on our app has cut down a bunch of boilerplate. That 
>>> principle can scale across machines as well.
>>>
>>> On 19 Jul 2015, at 16:54, Stuart Sierra  wrote:
>>>
>>> Absolutely would use again. But I'm biased towards Clojure already. :)
>>> –S
>>>
>>> On Sunday, July 19, 2015 09goral wrote:

 Thanks Stuart for your answer, it is very helpfull. Would you choose 
 Clojure again ?

 2015-07-19 17:13 GMT+02:00 Stuart Sierra:

>
> This is an old thread, but it showed up in my Google Groups so I 
> figured I would give an answer.
>
> I have worked on fairly large (10-50 machines) distributed systems 
> written entirely in Clojure
>

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Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[Christopher Small]

I'll also add that if you're interested in the Storm model (distributed 
stream processing), you may want to check out Onyx 
(https://github.com/onyx-platform/onyx). It's newer, but I have a feeling 
that moving forward we're going to see it take a dominant position as far 
as that flavor of distributed computing goes. The reasons for this 
(briefly):

* Data all the topologies: Because computational topologies are data 
structures, it's far simpler to have more dynamic computational workflows 
than with storms opaque macros.
* It's more Clojure centric: Parts of Storm are Clojure, but the Clojure 
API seems almost an afterthought, reading the documentation. (However, 
support is on the way for other JVM languages).
* Pace of development: Storm is now an Apache Incubator project, and 
development is slower than molasses. I was working on a project for over a 
year and many times encountered issues with stale dependencies that didn't 
play nicely with newer things.
* Designed with batch processing in mind: Even though both are designed 
around streaming first, Onyx has a little more explicit support for batched 
computations.

For a while, the biggest advantage of Storm was that it was a lot faster, 
but the gap there has closed considerably recently (perhaps entirely?). 
Storm is still more battle tested, but there are folks starting to use it 
in production.

The biggest reason I see Onyx taking sway over Storm is the data centric 
approach. I see this resonating with the community's "data all the things" 
philosophy as a way of maximizing composability and productivity. 
Anecdotally, folks using Onyx are already saying this about it.

My 2 c

Chris



On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 9:38:09 AM UTC-7, Devin Walters (devn) wrote:
>
> http://docs.paralleluniverse.co/pulsar/ is out there. I can't say I've 
> used it in anger, but I did enjoy experimenting with it.
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 11:24 AM Colin Yates  > wrote:
>
>> I don’t have anything to add at that scale, but I wanted to echo Stuart’s 
>> comment about the serialisability of EDN. Moving EDN between the front and 
>> back tiers  on our app has cut down a bunch of boilerplate. That principle 
>> can scale across machines as well.
>>
>> On 19 Jul 2015, at 16:54, Stuart Sierra > > wrote:
>>
>> Absolutely would use again. But I'm biased towards Clojure already. :)
>> –S
>>
>> On Sunday, July 19, 2015 09goral wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Stuart for your answer, it is very helpfull. Would you choose 
>>> Clojure again ?
>>>
>>> 2015-07-19 17:13 GMT+02:00 Stuart Sierra:
>>>

 This is an old thread, but it showed up in my Google Groups so I 
 figured I would give an answer.

 I have worked on fairly large (10-50 machines) distributed systems 
 written entirely in Clojure

>>>
>> -- 
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>> 
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Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[Devin Walters]

http://docs.paralleluniverse.co/pulsar/ is out there. I can't say I've used
it in anger, but I did enjoy experimenting with it.
On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 11:24 AM Colin Yates  wrote:

> I don’t have anything to add at that scale, but I wanted to echo Stuart’s
> comment about the serialisability of EDN. Moving EDN between the front and
> back tiers  on our app has cut down a bunch of boilerplate. That principle
> can scale across machines as well.
>
> On 19 Jul 2015, at 16:54, Stuart Sierra 
> wrote:
>
> Absolutely would use again. But I'm biased towards Clojure already. :)
> –S
>
> On Sunday, July 19, 2015 09goral wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Stuart for your answer, it is very helpfull. Would you choose
>> Clojure again ?
>>
>> 2015-07-19 17:13 GMT+02:00 Stuart Sierra:
>>
>>>
>>> This is an old thread, but it showed up in my Google Groups so I figured
>>> I would give an answer.
>>>
>>> I have worked on fairly large (10-50 machines) distributed systems
>>> written entirely in Clojure
>>>
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
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>
> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
>
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Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[Colin Yates]

I don’t have anything to add at that scale, but I wanted to echo Stuart’s 
comment about the serialisability of EDN. Moving EDN between the front and back 
tiers  on our app has cut down a bunch of boilerplate. That principle can scale 
across machines as well.

> On 19 Jul 2015, at 16:54, Stuart Sierra  wrote:
> 
> Absolutely would use again. But I'm biased towards Clojure already. :)
> –S
> 
> On Sunday, July 19, 2015 09goral wrote:
> Thanks Stuart for your answer, it is very helpfull. Would you choose Clojure 
> again ?
> 
> 2015-07-19 17:13 GMT+02:00 Stuart Sierra:
> 
> This is an old thread, but it showed up in my Google Groups so I figured I 
> would give an answer.
> 
> I have worked on fairly large (10-50 machines) distributed systems written 
> entirely in Clojure
> 
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Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[Stuart Sierra]

Absolutely would use again. But I'm biased towards Clojure already. :)
–S

On Sunday, July 19, 2015 09goral wrote:
>
> Thanks Stuart for your answer, it is very helpfull. Would you choose 
> Clojure again ?
>
> 2015-07-19 17:13 GMT+02:00 Stuart Sierra:
>
>>
>> This is an old thread, but it showed up in my Google Groups so I figured 
>> I would give an answer.
>>
>> I have worked on fairly large (10-50 machines) distributed systems 
>> written entirely in Clojure
>>
>

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Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[09goral .]

Thanks Stuart for your answer, it is very helpfull. Would you choose
Clojure again ?

2015-07-19 17:13 GMT+02:00 Stuart Sierra :

> This is an old thread, but it showed up in my Google Groups so I figured I
> would give an answer.
>
> I have worked on fairly large (10-50 machines) distributed systems written
> entirely in Clojure.
>
> The language itself doesn't provide an explicit mechanism for
> communication between machines, so you just have to pick an existing tool
> or technique that suits your application architecture. There are many
> possibilities to choose from, all with different strengths and weaknesses:
>
> 1. Direct connections between nodes, e.g. HTTP, raw sockets, HornetQ
> 2. Message broker, e.g. ActiveMQ, RabbitMQ
> 3. Distributed shared memory, e.g. ZooKeeper, Hazelcast, memcached
> 4. Distributed job control, e.g. Hadoop, Storm
>
> You can end up implementing something that looks very much like the Actor
> Model using these components. But you have other options as well.
>
> Where Clojure helps you in designing these systems is its focus on
> generic, immutable data structures and pure functions.
>
> Clojure's data structures are trivially serializable (EDN, Transit,
> Fressian). When all the data in your application can be represented by
> Clojure's generic data structures, it is easy to distribute work or data
> across multiple machines.
>
> When functions are stateless, it is less important "where" they are
> executed. When functions (or declarative expressions, e.g. database
> queries) can be expressed as data structures, they are easier to compose
> and distribute.
>
> –S
>
>
> On Wednesday, July 3, 2013, Hussein B. wrote:
>
>> I read recently on the internet that Clojure concurrency tools make it
>> easy to implement a highly concurrent system but on a single machine.
>>
>> But how to implement a highly concurrent system that runs on a multiple
>> machines?
>>
>> Erlang, Elixir and Scala have the Actors model.
>>
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-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Mateusz Górski

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Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[Stuart Sierra]

This is an old thread, but it showed up in my Google Groups so I figured I 
would give an answer.

I have worked on fairly large (10-50 machines) distributed systems written 
entirely in Clojure.

The language itself doesn't provide an explicit mechanism for communication 
between machines, so you just have to pick an existing tool or technique 
that suits your application architecture. There are many possibilities to 
choose from, all with different strengths and weaknesses:

1. Direct connections between nodes, e.g. HTTP, raw sockets, HornetQ
2. Message broker, e.g. ActiveMQ, RabbitMQ
3. Distributed shared memory, e.g. ZooKeeper, Hazelcast, memcached
4. Distributed job control, e.g. Hadoop, Storm

You can end up implementing something that looks very much like the Actor 
Model using these components. But you have other options as well.

Where Clojure helps you in designing these systems is its focus on generic, 
immutable data structures and pure functions.

Clojure's data structures are trivially serializable (EDN, Transit, 
Fressian). When all the data in your application can be represented by 
Clojure's generic data structures, it is easy to distribute work or data 
across multiple machines.

When functions are stateless, it is less important "where" they are 
executed. When functions (or declarative expressions, e.g. database 
queries) can be expressed as data structures, they are easier to compose 
and distribute.

–S


On Wednesday, July 3, 2013, Hussein B. wrote:

> I read recently on the internet that Clojure concurrency tools make it 
> easy to implement a highly concurrent system but on a single machine.
>
> But how to implement a highly concurrent system that runs on a multiple 
> machines?
>
> Erlang, Elixir and Scala have the Actors model.
>

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Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[09goral]

David,

Have your opinion on Akka changed since 2013 now that you have seen its 
progress ? I am very interested in your opinion. 

Regards,
Mateusz

W dniu czwartek, 4 lipca 2013 11:39:46 UTC+2 użytkownik David Pollak 
napisał:
>
> Please keep in mind that Scala's "Actor Model" is a very thin piece of 
> code that is not inherently distributed.
>
> There are a ton of issues in Scala related to crossing address spaces.
>
> Scala is not nearly as biased to immutability as Clojure. Sure, there are 
> case classes, but case classes can easily contain mutable data. When I 
> wrote Goat Rodeo (http://goatrodeo.org), I wrote a compiler plugin that 
> guaranteed immutability and serializability of the data structures used for 
> Goat Rodeo's Actor-based messaging... and this lead to the second issue...
>
> Having a class-based design means that one has to deal with 
> serializing/deserializing class-based data structures. This is a huge 
> problem. It means that the inter-process data structures must contain class 
> signatures... and for distributed systems that are going to have 100% 
> uptime, that means version and class signatures so that a message sent from 
> a version 1 system can be deserialized on a version 2 system even if the 
> class has changed.
>
> Long story short... Akka, the only popular distributed system in Scala, is 
> marginally better than RMI/J/EE, so for enterprise java shops, it's great 
> (much like Spring was.) But it's not something to aspire to.
>
> If I get some time, I'll work on a distributed version of core.async. The 
> only real challenge I can see is marshalling a Channel identifier across 
> address spaces. Everything else should be a walk in the park.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Hussein B.  > wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I read recently on the internet that Clojure concurrency tools make it 
>> easy to implement a highly concurrent system but on a single machine.
>>
>> But how to implement a highly concurrent system that runs on a multiple 
>> machines?
>>
>> Erlang, Elixir and Scala have the Actors model.
>>
>> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>
>> Thanks for help and time.
>>
>> -- 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Clojure" group.
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>> 
>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with 
>> your first post.
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>>  
>>  
>>
>
>

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Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[Luca Antiga]

Not that I'd recommend using it in production, but I experimented with 
distributed reference types on top of Redis some time ago: 
https://github.com/lantiga/exoref

Several aspects are very rough e.g when the connection to Redis is lost or 
when it comes to reusing a key. 
Overall it's probably naive, but it may be a starting point.

Luca


On Thursday, July 4, 2013 11:39:46 AM UTC+2, David Pollak wrote:
>
> Please keep in mind that Scala's "Actor Model" is a very thin piece of 
> code that is not inherently distributed.
>
> There are a ton of issues in Scala related to crossing address spaces.
>
> Scala is not nearly as biased to immutability as Clojure. Sure, there are 
> case classes, but case classes can easily contain mutable data. When I 
> wrote Goat Rodeo (http://goatrodeo.org), I wrote a compiler plugin that 
> guaranteed immutability and serializability of the data structures used for 
> Goat Rodeo's Actor-based messaging... and this lead to the second issue...
>
> Having a class-based design means that one has to deal with 
> serializing/deserializing class-based data structures. This is a huge 
> problem. It means that the inter-process data structures must contain class 
> signatures... and for distributed systems that are going to have 100% 
> uptime, that means version and class signatures so that a message sent from 
> a version 1 system can be deserialized on a version 2 system even if the 
> class has changed.
>
> Long story short... Akka, the only popular distributed system in Scala, is 
> marginally better than RMI/J/EE, so for enterprise java shops, it's great 
> (much like Spring was.) But it's not something to aspire to.
>
> If I get some time, I'll work on a distributed version of core.async. The 
> only real challenge I can see is marshalling a Channel identifier across 
> address spaces. Everything else should be a walk in the park.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Hussein B. 
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I read recently on the internet that Clojure concurrency tools make it 
>> easy to implement a highly concurrent system but on a single machine.
>>
>> But how to implement a highly concurrent system that runs on a multiple 
>> machines?
>>
>> Erlang, Elixir and Scala have the Actors model.
>>
>> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>
>> Thanks for help and time.
>>
>> -- 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Clojure" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com
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>> your first post.
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>>  
>>  
>>
>
>

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Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[David Pollak]

Please keep in mind that Scala's "Actor Model" is a very thin piece of code
that is not inherently distributed.

There are a ton of issues in Scala related to crossing address spaces.

Scala is not nearly as biased to immutability as Clojure. Sure, there are
case classes, but case classes can easily contain mutable data. When I
wrote Goat Rodeo (http://goatrodeo.org), I wrote a compiler plugin that
guaranteed immutability and serializability of the data structures used for
Goat Rodeo's Actor-based messaging... and this lead to the second issue...

Having a class-based design means that one has to deal with
serializing/deserializing class-based data structures. This is a huge
problem. It means that the inter-process data structures must contain class
signatures... and for distributed systems that are going to have 100%
uptime, that means version and class signatures so that a message sent from
a version 1 system can be deserialized on a version 2 system even if the
class has changed.

Long story short... Akka, the only popular distributed system in Scala, is
marginally better than RMI/J/EE, so for enterprise java shops, it's great
(much like Spring was.) But it's not something to aspire to.

If I get some time, I'll work on a distributed version of core.async. The
only real challenge I can see is marshalling a Channel identifier across
address spaces. Everything else should be a walk in the park.






On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Hussein B.  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I read recently on the internet that Clojure concurrency tools make it
> easy to implement a highly concurrent system but on a single machine.
>
> But how to implement a highly concurrent system that runs on a multiple
> machines?
>
> Erlang, Elixir and Scala have the Actors model.
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> Thanks for help and time.
>
> --
> --
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>
>

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Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[Philippe Guillebert]

Hi

I'm surprised nobody mentioned storm yet. It's massively scalable real-time
computing, using clojure.
Le 3 juil. 2013 16:18, "Softaddicts"  a écrit :

> clj-zookeeper + avout. We run our solution on clusters of small nodes, we
> needed
> a lightweight solution. We implemented cluster queues and use avout
> locking.
> Our configuration is also stored in zookeeper as clojure expressions.
>
> We isolated this in a coordinator module so nothing spills out in the rest
> of the code.
> We could swap this for another alternative with minimal headaches but so
> far it scales
> pretty well.
>
> For inter cluster exchanges we are using zeromq but we do not need the same
> tight intra cluster integration.
>
> Luc P.
>
>
> > I'd like to hear others opinions on this too. I don't believe Clojure has
> > anything built in at this point. My plan of action (not yet implemented)
> is
> > to use gearman(possibly java, but it seems that it is no longer updated)
> > and zeroconf for clusters (just for automatic master determination).
> >
> > I know there is support for Hadoop in Clojure as well, which does not fit
> > my needs but may fit your needs. A quick google search will get you
> started.
> >
> > Immutant has support for clustering too, but I believe it requires
> > leiningen to start, where I need to compile everything into a single jar.
> >  Immutant under the hood is using JBoss' message queue, so that may be an
> > option to explore as well.
> >
> > I'm curious what others are doing.
> >
> > Best.,
> > --Joseph
> >
> > On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 4:26:53 AM UTC-5, Hussein B. wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I read recently on the internet that Clojure concurrency tools make it
> > > easy to implement a highly concurrent system but on a single machine.
> > >
> > > But how to implement a highly concurrent system that runs on a multiple
> > > machines?
> > >
> > > Erlang, Elixir and Scala have the Actors model.
> > >
> > > Please correct me if I'm wrong.
> > >
> > > Thanks for help and time.
> > >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Clojure" group.
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> > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
> your first post.
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> >
> >
> >
> --
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>
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Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[Softaddicts]

clj-zookeeper + avout. We run our solution on clusters of small nodes, we needed
a lightweight solution. We implemented cluster queues and use avout locking.
Our configuration is also stored in zookeeper as clojure expressions.

We isolated this in a coordinator module so nothing spills out in the rest of 
the code.
We could swap this for another alternative with minimal headaches but so far it 
scales 
pretty well.

For inter cluster exchanges we are using zeromq but we do not need the same
tight intra cluster integration.

Luc P.


> I'd like to hear others opinions on this too. I don't believe Clojure has 
> anything built in at this point. My plan of action (not yet implemented) is 
> to use gearman(possibly java, but it seems that it is no longer updated) 
> and zeroconf for clusters (just for automatic master determination).
> 
> I know there is support for Hadoop in Clojure as well, which does not fit 
> my needs but may fit your needs. A quick google search will get you started.
> 
> Immutant has support for clustering too, but I believe it requires 
> leiningen to start, where I need to compile everything into a single jar. 
>  Immutant under the hood is using JBoss' message queue, so that may be an 
> option to explore as well.
> 
> I'm curious what others are doing.
> 
> Best.,
> --Joseph
> 
> On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 4:26:53 AM UTC-5, Hussein B. wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I read recently on the internet that Clojure concurrency tools make it 
> > easy to implement a highly concurrent system but on a single machine.
> >
> > But how to implement a highly concurrent system that runs on a multiple 
> > machines?
> >
> > Erlang, Elixir and Scala have the Actors model.
> >
> > Please correct me if I'm wrong.
> >
> > Thanks for help and time.
> >
> 
> -- 
> -- 
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> 
> 
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Re: How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[Joseph Guhlin]

I'd like to hear others opinions on this too. I don't believe Clojure has 
anything built in at this point. My plan of action (not yet implemented) is 
to use gearman(possibly java, but it seems that it is no longer updated) 
and zeroconf for clusters (just for automatic master determination).

I know there is support for Hadoop in Clojure as well, which does not fit 
my needs but may fit your needs. A quick google search will get you started.

Immutant has support for clustering too, but I believe it requires 
leiningen to start, where I need to compile everything into a single jar. 
 Immutant under the hood is using JBoss' message queue, so that may be an 
option to explore as well.

I'm curious what others are doing.

Best.,
--Joseph

On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 4:26:53 AM UTC-5, Hussein B. wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I read recently on the internet that Clojure concurrency tools make it 
> easy to implement a highly concurrent system but on a single machine.
>
> But how to implement a highly concurrent system that runs on a multiple 
> machines?
>
> Erlang, Elixir and Scala have the Actors model.
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> Thanks for help and time.
>

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How to implement a distributed and concurrent system in Clojure?

[Hussein B.]

Hi,

I read recently on the internet that Clojure concurrency tools make it easy 
to implement a highly concurrent system but on a single machine.

But how to implement a highly concurrent system that runs on a multiple 
machines?

Erlang, Elixir and Scala have the Actors model.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks for help and time.

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