Re: Current best-of-breed JDBC libraries?

[Gary Johnson]

I actually prefer yesql for most of my Clojure<->SQL interaction.

Since a significant portion of my job involves me writing and optimizing 
SQL queries, I like being able to seamlessly switch between psql, 
org-babel's sql mode, and yesql with a simple cut and paste operation. For 
extra emacs sexiness, check out the yesql-ghosts package in MELPA. This 
automatically inserts all of the imported function signatures (as defns) as 
a text overlay below any (defqueries ...) form when a clojure buffer is in 
cider-mode.

Keep on hackin' in the free world,
  ~Gary

On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 9:04:36 AM UTC-5, Colin Yates wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> What are you all using for interacting with an RDBMS? In the past I looked 
> at clojure.java.jdbc, honeysql and korma (and for querying, honeysql just 
> rocks). I have lost touch a bit - any recommendations?
>
> Thanks.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Clojure" group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Clojure" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Current best-of-breed JDBC libraries?

[blake]

I ran through all of the above and found it easier just to build my queries
straight and call with clojure.java.jdbc. But my needs were light.

On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Colin Yates  wrote:

> I haven't used it but I remember building up pages of SQL in Clojure
> wasn't fun. The idea of putting that SQL into a .sql file, accessible
> by non-Clojure DB developer is very appealing.
>
> On 24 February 2015 at 18:24, Niels van Klaveren
>  wrote:
> > Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't really see the advantages of
> yesql over standard parametrized clojure.java.jdbc queries ?
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Clojure" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
> > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
> your first post.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
> > ---
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Clojure" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Clojure" group.
> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
> your first post.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Clojure" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Clojure" group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Clojure" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Current best-of-breed JDBC libraries?

[Colin Yates]

I haven't used it but I remember building up pages of SQL in Clojure
wasn't fun. The idea of putting that SQL into a .sql file, accessible
by non-Clojure DB developer is very appealing.

On 24 February 2015 at 18:24, Niels van Klaveren
 wrote:
> Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't really see the advantages of yesql 
> over standard parametrized clojure.java.jdbc queries ?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Clojure" group.
> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
> first post.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Clojure" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Clojure" group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Clojure" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Current best-of-breed JDBC libraries?

[Niels van Klaveren]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't really see the advantages of yesql 
over standard parametrized clojure.java.jdbc queries ?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Clojure" group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Clojure" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Current best-of-breed JDBC libraries?

[Colin Yates]

Honeysql has to be one of the best examples of data transformation
where Clojure really shines. {domain-data} -> {honey-sql data} -> SQL.
Love it.

I understand YeSQL's sweet spot is where the SQL is static except for
parameters so yeah, not applicable for building up queries at runtime.
Still, if SQL is known up front then it seems very nice.

On 24 February 2015 at 18:10, Sean Corfield  wrote:
> On Feb 24, 2015, at 9:16 AM, Colin Yates  wrote:
>> I am surprised that yesql isn't more adopted, particularly now named
>> parameters is there - has anyone run into roadblocks with it?
>
> Most of our SQL is dynamically created -- data-driven -- so YeSQL isn't 
> really a good fit, as I understand it. We're either building SQL from a map 
> of key/value pairs or from composable pieces using HoneySQL (for our complex 
> reports that are all driven by data as well).
>
> Sean Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
>
> "Perfection is the enemy of the good."
> -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Clojure" group.
> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
> first post.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Clojure" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Clojure" group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Clojure" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Current best-of-breed JDBC libraries?

[Sean Corfield]

On Feb 24, 2015, at 9:16 AM, Colin Yates  wrote:
> I am surprised that yesql isn't more adopted, particularly now named
> parameters is there - has anyone run into roadblocks with it?

Most of our SQL is dynamically created -- data-driven -- so YeSQL isn't really 
a good fit, as I understand it. We're either building SQL from a map of 
key/value pairs or from composable pieces using HoneySQL (for our complex 
reports that are all driven by data as well). 

Sean Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"Perfection is the enemy of the good."
-- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Clojure" group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Clojure" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Current best-of-breed JDBC libraries?

[Colin Yates]

OK - thanks all.

I am surprised that yesql isn't more adopted, particularly now named
parameters is there - has anyone run into roadblocks with it?

On 24 February 2015 at 16:50, Sean Corfield  wrote:
> On Feb 24, 2015, at 6:04 AM, Colin Yates  wrote:
>> What are you all using for interacting with an RDBMS? In the past I looked 
>> at clojure.java.jdbc, honeysql and korma (and for querying, honeysql just 
>> rocks). I have lost touch a bit - any recommendations?
>
> At World Singles, all our MySQL interaction is done through clojure.java.jdbc 
> (which I maintain), and HoneySQL for our more complex reporting queries. We 
> like the composability of HoneySQL for complex stuff.
>
> We have a small wrapper around clojure.java.jdbc for basic CRUD stuff 
> (get-by-id, delete-by-id, find-by-keys) that encapsulates the 
> identifier/entity mappings and the DB connections we use, but we’re slowly 
> moving away from that toward raw clojure.java.jdbc and leveraging the :row-fn 
> and :result-set-fn keys more.
>
> Sean Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
>
> "Perfection is the enemy of the good."
> -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Clojure" group.
> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
> first post.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Clojure" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Clojure" group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Clojure" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Current best-of-breed JDBC libraries?

[Sean Corfield]

On Feb 24, 2015, at 6:04 AM, Colin Yates  wrote:
> What are you all using for interacting with an RDBMS? In the past I looked at 
> clojure.java.jdbc, honeysql and korma (and for querying, honeysql just 
> rocks). I have lost touch a bit - any recommendations?

At World Singles, all our MySQL interaction is done through clojure.java.jdbc 
(which I maintain), and HoneySQL for our more complex reporting queries. We 
like the composability of HoneySQL for complex stuff.

We have a small wrapper around clojure.java.jdbc for basic CRUD stuff 
(get-by-id, delete-by-id, find-by-keys) that encapsulates the identifier/entity 
mappings and the DB connections we use, but we’re slowly moving away from that 
toward raw clojure.java.jdbc and leveraging the :row-fn and :result-set-fn keys 
more.

Sean Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"Perfection is the enemy of the good."
-- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Clojure" group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Clojure" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Current best-of-breed JDBC libraries?

[Erik Price]

We tried Korma but found it too limiting for our needs. Later, I saw this
tweet:

https://twitter.com/ibdknox/status/557236505639665664

We are currently using HoneySQL to generate SQL which then gets passed to
clojure.java.jdbc.

e
​

On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Colin Yates  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> What are you all using for interacting with an RDBMS? In the past I looked
> at clojure.java.jdbc, honeysql and korma (and for querying, honeysql just
> rocks). I have lost touch a bit - any recommendations?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Clojure" group.
> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
> your first post.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Clojure" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Clojure" group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Clojure" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Current best-of-breed JDBC libraries?

[Colin Yates]

+1 to all of that. We are using honeysql to serve our ad-hoc reporting
engine. Composing data structures for the win.

On 24 February 2015 at 15:12, Niels van Klaveren
 wrote:
> I've done a fair bit of complex SQL with honeysql, and must say it rocks. It
> could use a bit more documentation where extending it with new clauses is
> concerned, though.
>
> For my latest project being able to manipulate the datastructures that are
> rendered to SQL was crucial, and honeysql was the only one that fitted that
> bill. Basically, it generates SQL scripts to relink foreign key references
> to clean up duplicates in a database. It takes a honeysql select query with
> (at least) a from table, a group-by and an order-by clause as a base
> definition what are to be considered doubles, and in which order records
> should be preserved. In combination with JDBC metadata that query
> effectively gets rewritten to generate:
>
> A temporary replacement table
> Queries to unify unique indexes, to prevent clashes when foreign key
> references are updated
> Queries to update all foreign key references
> Delete statements to remove all duplicates
>
> To create the best performing, but still database independent SQL, I had to
> extend honeysql with extra clauses like OVER and PARTITION BY. I wouldn't
> say it was a breeze, but seemed to work very well.
> Compared to the previous version I wrote in Ruby (without these clauses),
> the SQL now only scales with the amount of unique / foreign key constraints,
> instead of the amount of doubled sets.
>
> That cut down SQL to (sometimes) GB's of script to around a few 100 lines of
> SQL, and on one occasion, a runtime from 19 hours to 1.5 minutes.
>
> All in all, pretty impressed with Clojure and HoneySQL.
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 3:04:36 PM UTC+1, Colin Yates wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> What are you all using for interacting with an RDBMS? In the past I looked
>> at clojure.java.jdbc, honeysql and korma (and for querying, honeysql just
>> rocks). I have lost touch a bit - any recommendations?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Clojure" group.
> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your
> first post.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Clojure" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Clojure" group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Clojure" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Current best-of-breed JDBC libraries?

[Niels van Klaveren]

I've done a fair bit of complex SQL with honeysql, and must say it rocks. 
It could use a bit more documentation where extending it with new clauses 
is concerned, though.

For my latest project being able to manipulate the datastructures that are 
rendered to SQL was crucial, and honeysql was the only one that fitted that 
bill. Basically, it generates SQL scripts to relink foreign key references 
to clean up duplicates in a database. It takes a honeysql select query with 
(at least) a from table, a group-by and an order-by clause as a base 
definition what are to be considered doubles, and in which order records 
should be preserved. In combination with JDBC metadata that query 
effectively gets rewritten to generate:

A temporary replacement table
Queries to unify unique indexes, to prevent clashes when foreign key 
references are updated
Queries to update all foreign key references
Delete statements to remove all duplicates

To create the best performing, but still database independent SQL, I had to 
extend honeysql with extra clauses like OVER and PARTITION BY. I wouldn't 
say it was a breeze, but seemed to work very well.
Compared to the previous version I wrote in Ruby (without these clauses), 
the SQL now only scales with the amount of unique / foreign key 
constraints, instead of the amount of doubled sets.

That cut down SQL to (sometimes) GB's of script to around a few 100 lines 
of SQL, and on one occasion, a runtime from 19 hours to 1.5 minutes.

All in all, pretty impressed with Clojure and HoneySQL.


On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 3:04:36 PM UTC+1, Colin Yates wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> What are you all using for interacting with an RDBMS? In the past I looked 
> at clojure.java.jdbc, honeysql and korma (and for querying, honeysql just 
> rocks). I have lost touch a bit - any recommendations?
>
> Thanks.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Clojure" group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Clojure" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Current best-of-breed JDBC libraries?

[Andrey Antukh]

I'm currently using and maintaining this two:

https://github.com/niwibe/clojure.jdbc - A clojure.java.jdbc alternative.
https://github.com/niwibe/suricatta - High level Sql toolkit (slightly
higher level abstraction over plain jdbc and includes sql dsl)

Cheers.
Andrey

2015-02-24 15:11 GMT+01:00 Colin Yates :

> Actually, https://github.com/krisajenkins/yesql, now that it supports
> named parameters is probably just the ticket...
>
>
> On Tuesday, 24 February 2015 14:04:36 UTC, Colin Yates wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> What are you all using for interacting with an RDBMS? In the past I
>> looked at clojure.java.jdbc, honeysql and korma (and for querying, honeysql
>> just rocks). I have lost touch a bit - any recommendations?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Clojure" group.
> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
> your first post.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Clojure" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



-- 
Andrey Antukh - Андрей Антух -  / 
http://www.niwi.be 
https://github.com/niwibe

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Clojure" group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Clojure" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Current best-of-breed JDBC libraries?

[Colin Yates]

Actually, https://github.com/krisajenkins/yesql, now that it supports named 
parameters is probably just the ticket...

On Tuesday, 24 February 2015 14:04:36 UTC, Colin Yates wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> What are you all using for interacting with an RDBMS? In the past I looked 
> at clojure.java.jdbc, honeysql and korma (and for querying, honeysql just 
> rocks). I have lost touch a bit - any recommendations?
>
> Thanks.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Clojure" group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Clojure" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.