Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[Denis Labaye]

Only one link: http://www.4clojure.com/

That's what we did a few month ago when we did an introduction to Clojure
for our fellow co-workers.

It worked well, to the point that it crashed www.4clojure.com :)

But on Clojure IRC, Anthony Grimes (IORayne) was kind to reboot the server,
it demonstrated in an unattended way the friendlyness of the Clojure
community.

On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 11:13 PM, ulsa  wrote:

> In a couple of months, I'll have a whole day of teaching Clojure to ten of
> my colleagues. They are experienced Java programmers, but otherwise Clojure
> rookies. Any tips on how to structure such a workshop day?
>
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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[Lee Spector]

On Dec 21, 2012, at 2:27 PM, ulsa wrote:
> I used an early version of Clooj in a workshop some time ago, but got burned 
> by some bug that rendered the REPL crazy and shredding people's code. That 
> scared me away. Probably much better now, though.

I've taught a couple of courses using clooj and I think it's nearly optimal for 
some categories of noobs and some non-noobs too (like me, much of the time). 
For me it has an essential combination of features that I can't find together 
elsewhere: one-click, idiot-proof installation, native and un-mysterious GUI 
that doesn't require special training, REPL, bracket matching, automatic code 
indenting, autocompletion, doc-string access, arglist-on-space, and leiningen 
compatibility (but it's not integrated).  There are a few things that it 
doesn't have that I wish that it did -- especially stuff related to debugging 
-- but for me the tradeoffs are worth it. 

However, it's true that it's not very actively maintained and that it currently 
has some problems. I don't think that the author has a lot of spare time for it 
these days. But I think that anyone can contribute and if anyone out there has 
the skill set and time to contribute to a project then I think this would be a 
worthy target...

 -Lee

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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[ulsa]

This is good advice. I think you can cover a lot of ground using this 
approach, which I guess you need to do when writing a book. 

As I mentioned in another post, I believe I have to choose between covering 
a lot of ground and building them a foundation that they can experiment on 
further.


On Friday, 21 December 2012 04:14:41 UTC+1, Brian Marick wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 20, 2012, at 8:55 PM, Seth Chandler > 
> wrote: 
>
> > but in dealing with file locations, dependency management, projects, 
> Leiningen, all of which are -- with due respect -- very difficult, 
> particularly for people not coming from an Eclipse or similar background. 
>
> In my book, I decided to have everyone work at the repl, using only 
> cutting-and-pasting or `load-file`. It's a 325-page book that never talks 
> about namespaces or the `ns` macro. 
>
> The beginning instructions about how to do the exercises looks like this: 
>
> > You can copy and paste Clojure text into 
> > the repl. It handles multiple lines just fine. 
> > 
> > [… a note about possible glitches when copying from a PDF] 
> > 
> > If you want to 
> > use a Clojure command to load a file like (for example) 
> `solutions/add-and-make.clj`, 
> > use this: 
> > 
> > {:lang="clojure"} 
> > ~~ 
> > user> (load-file "solutions/add-and-make.clj") 
> > ~~ 
> > 
> > *Warning*: I'm used to using `load` in other languages, so I 
> > often reflexively use it  instead of `load-file`. That leads 
> > to this 
> > puzzling message: 
> > 
> > {:lang="clojure"} 
> > ~~ 
> > user=> (load "sources/without-class-class.clj") 
> > FileNotFoundException Could not locate sources/without-class-class. 
> > clj__init.class or sources/without-class-class.clj.clj on classpath: 
> > clojure.lang.RT.load (RT.java:432) 
> > ~~ 
> > 
> > The clue to my mistake is the ".clj.clj" on the next-to-last line. 
>
> These instructions seem to work well for my readers. 
>
>  
> Occasional consulting on programming technique 
> Contract programming in Ruby and Clojure 
> Latest book: /Functional Programming for the Object-Oriented Programmer/ 
> https://leanpub.com/fp-oo 
>
>

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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[ulsa]

I also suspect that the IDE is important. These guys are experienced 
people, and I think that once they have an environment that works and they 
have some control over, they will have a foundation. I think they need and 
want to know how namespaces work, so that they can see how to modularize 
code. Then again, Brian's view that the REPL can be the basis for a whole 
book is also compelling. I must choose a path here.

My hope is that, given a whole day, I can spend some time on the 
environment issue and still hopefully have time for both some basics and 
also an end-to-end example, even if it's just a tiny little web app. The 
plan is to give them a sense of controlling the process from the IDE, 
setting up a project, incrementally building it using the IDE, and then 
deploying it in the cloud.

There are probably millions of good ways to structure such a workshop. What 
I'm trying to express in these posts is the lack of seeing a clear way 
through the features: what to start with, what to elaborate on so that they 
don't get too puzzled on the way to the next feature, and what to end with 
so that they get a sense of achievement. 


On Friday, 21 December 2012 03:55:46 UTC+1, Seth Chandler wrote:
>
> I would spend A LOT of time on working with the IDE be it 
> Eclipse/Counterclockwise, IntelliJ or whatever.  In my limited experience 
> the main impediment to Clojure is not Clojure itself, which is very 
> sensible, but in dealing with file locations, dependency management, 
> projects, Leiningen, all of which are -- with due respect -- very 
> difficult, particularly for people not coming from an Eclipse or similar 
> background.  Once you have the confidence that comes with understanding 
> your IDE, you can learn Clojure by playing and by reading idiomatic code. 
>  Until then, however, Clojure development can be VERY frustrating .  Maybe 
> this will all go away once we have better IDEs (LightTable, Session) full 
> developed, but until then don't just "assume" that people understand the 
> IDE.
>
> On Saturday, December 15, 2012 4:13:21 PM UTC-6, ulsa wrote:
>>
>> In a couple of months, I'll have a whole day of teaching Clojure to ten 
>> of my colleagues. They are experienced Java programmers, but otherwise 
>> Clojure rookies. Any tips on how to structure such a workshop day?
>>
>

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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[ulsa]

I have used the isBlank example in presentations. It's not a bad starting 
point. Might look at how it could be used in a workshop. Thanks.

On Thursday, 20 December 2012 17:16:19 UTC+1, Thomas wrote:
>
> If you need to touch on the why of Clojure I found the example in the 
> beginning Stuart Halloways book quite a good one. the isBlank in Java and 
> the one line blank? equivalent in Clojure. Show them the Java, talk it 
> through with them and then highlight some of its downsides (multiple if 
> statements, the loop, local variables, the fact that the two statements in 
> the first if with can only be ordered in that way etc). and then show them 
> the clojure code, talk them through that and show them what it better (even 
> if functionally completely equivalent) about it.
>
> just a thought,
>
> Thomas
>

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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[ulsa]

I used an early version of Clooj in a workshop some time ago, but got 
burned by some bug that rendered the REPL crazy and shredding people's 
code. That scared me away. Probably much better now, though.

On Wednesday, 19 December 2012 20:38:05 UTC+1, Nando Breiter wrote:
>
> What about Clooj? 
> http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/getting+started+with+Clooj
>
> Is it too buggy, or lacking in features, to start out with?
>
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 11:27 AM, ulsa 
> > wrote:
>
>> Good point. 
>>
>> I really would like themselves to be able to set up their own 
>> environment. I think it gives them a sense of control. However, as a 
>> fallback, it would be great with a virtual machine with everything working. 
>> I'll consider that.
>>
>> I believe you can get a similar level of interactivity in both IntelliJ 
>> and Eclipse, but I agree that Emacs is still the master.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 04:31:32 UTC+1, Peter wrote:
>>
>>> 1. install Leiningen and learn the basics
>>> 2. get everyone an editing environment, with the option of using either 
>>> Emacs, IntelliJ, or Eclipse
>>>
>>> I would have people do this in advance, or provide a canned environment 
>>> that has a better chance of "just working". There's decent odds that these 
>>> two steps will eat up a bunch of your time and leave people feeling left 
>>> out when their install/editor/integration is not quite right.
>>>
>>> Personally I found the C-x-e of evaluating an s-exp in emacs to be the 
>>> magic that makes clojure a bajillionty times better than any other 
>>> programming language, so I'm partial to something like the emacs starter 
>>> kit. But something like labrepl or eclipse+counterclockwise might be easier 
>>> for people to start with. 
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 3:26 AM, Marko Topolnik wrote:
>>>

 I think, however, that there is a risk of a disconnect, where newcomers 
> don't really grasp that there is a JVM running and that code is actually 
> compiled and injected into it, and that it's for real. They are used to 
> mickey mouse interactive tools that don't provide the real thing, and 
> struggle to bridge the apparent gap between running code in the REPL and 
> "properly compiling and running" files. There is no gap, but one needs to 
> explain that, I think.


 I think this is a pivot point for everything in Clojure. The harder the 
 mental switch, the more important to make it right away. Without 
 understanding that, it will be very hard to maintain a clear picture of 
 how 
 everything fits together, especially when you start changing functions and 
 reloading them. 
  
 -- 
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 your first post.
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> The king’s heart is like a stream of water directed by the Lord; He 
>>> guides it wherever He pleases.
>>>  
>>  -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Nando Breiter
>
> *Aria Media
> via Rompada 40
> 6987 Caslano
> Switzerland
> *
>
> 

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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[Brian Marick]

On Dec 20, 2012, at 8:55 PM, Seth Chandler  wrote:

> but in dealing with file locations, dependency management, projects, 
> Leiningen, all of which are -- with due respect -- very difficult, 
> particularly for people not coming from an Eclipse or similar background.

In my book, I decided to have everyone work at the repl, using only 
cutting-and-pasting or `load-file`. It's a 325-page book that never talks about 
namespaces or the `ns` macro.

The beginning instructions about how to do the exercises looks like this:

> You can copy and paste Clojure text into
> the repl. It handles multiple lines just fine. 
> 
> [… a note about possible glitches when copying from a PDF]
> 
> If you want to
> use a Clojure command to load a file like (for example) 
> `solutions/add-and-make.clj`,
> use this:
> 
> {:lang="clojure"}
> ~~
> user> (load-file "solutions/add-and-make.clj")
> ~~
> 
> *Warning*: I'm used to using `load` in other languages, so I
> often reflexively use it  instead of `load-file`. That leads
> to this
> puzzling message:
> 
> {:lang="clojure"}
> ~~
> user=> (load "sources/without-class-class.clj")
> FileNotFoundException Could not locate sources/without-class-class.
> clj__init.class or sources/without-class-class.clj.clj on classpath:
> clojure.lang.RT.load (RT.java:432)
> ~~
> 
> The clue to my mistake is the ".clj.clj" on the next-to-last line.

These instructions seem to work well for my readers.


Occasional consulting on programming technique
Contract programming in Ruby and Clojure
Latest book: /Functional Programming for the Object-Oriented Programmer/
https://leanpub.com/fp-oo

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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[Seth Chandler]

I would spend A LOT of time on working with the IDE be it 
Eclipse/Counterclockwise, IntelliJ or whatever.  In my limited experience 
the main impediment to Clojure is not Clojure itself, which is very 
sensible, but in dealing with file locations, dependency management, 
projects, Leiningen, all of which are -- with due respect -- very 
difficult, particularly for people not coming from an Eclipse or similar 
background.  Once you have the confidence that comes with understanding 
your IDE, you can learn Clojure by playing and by reading idiomatic code. 
 Until then, however, Clojure development can be VERY frustrating .  Maybe 
this will all go away once we have better IDEs (LightTable, Session) full 
developed, but until then don't just "assume" that people understand the 
IDE.

On Saturday, December 15, 2012 4:13:21 PM UTC-6, ulsa wrote:
>
> In a couple of months, I'll have a whole day of teaching Clojure to ten of 
> my colleagues. They are experienced Java programmers, but otherwise Clojure 
> rookies. Any tips on how to structure such a workshop day?
>

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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[Thomas]

If you need to touch on the why of Clojure I found the example in the 
beginning Stuart Halloways book quite a good one. the isBlank in Java and 
the one line blank? equivalent in Clojure. Show them the Java, talk it 
through with them and then highlight some of its downsides (multiple if 
statements, the loop, local variables, the fact that the two statements in 
the first if with can only be ordered in that way etc). and then show them 
the clojure code, talk them through that and show them what it better (even 
if functionally completely equivalent) about it.

just a thought,

Thomas

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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[Nando]

What about Clooj?
http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/getting+started+with+Clooj

Is it too buggy, or lacking in features, to start out with?

On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 11:27 AM, ulsa  wrote:

> Good point.
>
> I really would like themselves to be able to set up their own environment.
> I think it gives them a sense of control. However, as a fallback, it would
> be great with a virtual machine with everything working. I'll consider that.
>
> I believe you can get a similar level of interactivity in both IntelliJ
> and Eclipse, but I agree that Emacs is still the master.
>
>
> On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 04:31:32 UTC+1, Peter wrote:
>
>> 1. install Leiningen and learn the basics
>> 2. get everyone an editing environment, with the option of using either
>> Emacs, IntelliJ, or Eclipse
>>
>> I would have people do this in advance, or provide a canned environment
>> that has a better chance of "just working". There's decent odds that these
>> two steps will eat up a bunch of your time and leave people feeling left
>> out when their install/editor/integration is not quite right.
>>
>> Personally I found the C-x-e of evaluating an s-exp in emacs to be the
>> magic that makes clojure a bajillionty times better than any other
>> programming language, so I'm partial to something like the emacs starter
>> kit. But something like labrepl or eclipse+counterclockwise might be easier
>> for people to start with.
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 3:26 AM, Marko Topolnik wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I think, however, that there is a risk of a disconnect, where newcomers
 don't really grasp that there is a JVM running and that code is actually
 compiled and injected into it, and that it's for real. They are used to
 mickey mouse interactive tools that don't provide the real thing, and
 struggle to bridge the apparent gap between running code in the REPL and
 "properly compiling and running" files. There is no gap, but one needs to
 explain that, I think.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think this is a pivot point for everything in Clojure. The harder the
>>> mental switch, the more important to make it right away. Without
>>> understanding that, it will be very hard to maintain a clear picture of how
>>> everything fits together, especially when you start changing functions and
>>> reloading them.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Clojure" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com
>>>
>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
>>> your first post.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> clojure+u...@**googlegroups.com
>>>
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/**group/clojure?hl=en
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> The king’s heart is like a stream of water directed by the Lord; He
>> guides it wherever He pleases.
>>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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-- 
Nando Breiter

*Aria Media
via Rompada 40
6987 Caslano
Switzerland
*

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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[ulsa]

Good point. 

I really would like themselves to be able to set up their own environment. 
I think it gives them a sense of control. However, as a fallback, it would 
be great with a virtual machine with everything working. I'll consider that.

I believe you can get a similar level of interactivity in both IntelliJ and 
Eclipse, but I agree that Emacs is still the master.

On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 04:31:32 UTC+1, Peter wrote:
>
> 1. install Leiningen and learn the basics
> 2. get everyone an editing environment, with the option of using either 
> Emacs, IntelliJ, or Eclipse
>
> I would have people do this in advance, or provide a canned environment 
> that has a better chance of "just working". There's decent odds that these 
> two steps will eat up a bunch of your time and leave people feeling left 
> out when their install/editor/integration is not quite right.
>
> Personally I found the C-x-e of evaluating an s-exp in emacs to be the 
> magic that makes clojure a bajillionty times better than any other 
> programming language, so I'm partial to something like the emacs starter 
> kit. But something like labrepl or eclipse+counterclockwise might be easier 
> for people to start with. 
>
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 3:26 AM, Marko Topolnik 
> 
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> I think, however, that there is a risk of a disconnect, where newcomers 
>>> don't really grasp that there is a JVM running and that code is actually 
>>> compiled and injected into it, and that it's for real. They are used to 
>>> mickey mouse interactive tools that don't provide the real thing, and 
>>> struggle to bridge the apparent gap between running code in the REPL and 
>>> "properly compiling and running" files. There is no gap, but one needs to 
>>> explain that, I think.
>>
>>
>> I think this is a pivot point for everything in Clojure. The harder the 
>> mental switch, the more important to make it right away. Without 
>> understanding that, it will be very hard to maintain a clear picture of how 
>> everything fits together, especially when you start changing functions and 
>> reloading them. 
>>  
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Clojure" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com
>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with 
>> your first post.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> clojure+u...@googlegroups.com 
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> The king’s heart is like a stream of water directed by the Lord; He guides 
> it wherever He pleases.
>  

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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[Peter Buckley]

1. install Leiningen and learn the basics
2. get everyone an editing environment, with the option of using either
Emacs, IntelliJ, or Eclipse

I would have people do this in advance, or provide a canned environment
that has a better chance of "just working". There's decent odds that these
two steps will eat up a bunch of your time and leave people feeling left
out when their install/editor/integration is not quite right.

Personally I found the C-x-e of evaluating an s-exp in emacs to be the
magic that makes clojure a bajillionty times better than any other
programming language, so I'm partial to something like the emacs starter
kit. But something like labrepl or eclipse+counterclockwise might be easier
for people to start with.

On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 3:26 AM, Marko Topolnik wrote:

>
> I think, however, that there is a risk of a disconnect, where newcomers
>> don't really grasp that there is a JVM running and that code is actually
>> compiled and injected into it, and that it's for real. They are used to
>> mickey mouse interactive tools that don't provide the real thing, and
>> struggle to bridge the apparent gap between running code in the REPL and
>> "properly compiling and running" files. There is no gap, but one needs to
>> explain that, I think.
>
>
> I think this is a pivot point for everything in Clojure. The harder the
> mental switch, the more important to make it right away. Without
> understanding that, it will be very hard to maintain a clear picture of how
> everything fits together, especially when you start changing functions and
> reloading them.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Clojure" group.
> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
> your first post.
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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[Marko Topolnik]

> I think, however, that there is a risk of a disconnect, where newcomers 
> don't really grasp that there is a JVM running and that code is actually 
> compiled and injected into it, and that it's for real. They are used to 
> mickey mouse interactive tools that don't provide the real thing, and 
> struggle to bridge the apparent gap between running code in the REPL and 
> "properly compiling and running" files. There is no gap, but one needs to 
> explain that, I think.


I think this is a pivot point for everything in Clojure. The harder the 
mental switch, the more important to make it right away. Without 
understanding that, it will be very hard to maintain a clear picture of how 
everything fits together, especially when you start changing functions and 
reloading them. 

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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[ulsa]

Interesting idea. Let me ponder that.

When one starts pulling on a thread like metadata for example, all kinds of 
interesting facets pop up. That's what I meant with my comment about the XP 
practices graph thing. Different Clojure capabilities support and enable 
other capabilities, and you need to be prepared to explain those other 
capabilities. They're all (well maybe not all) interconnected and I think 
it's hard to know which thread to start pulling on.


On Sunday, 16 December 2012 22:58:56 UTC+1, Devin Walters (devn) wrote:
>
> I think showing people how metadata works usually makes people start 
> dreaming, and exposes them to docstrings and arglists which I think is 
> crucial to self-directed learning.
>
> So, I think I'd show them: (doc ...), and then show how that is metadata, 
> and for quicker folks you could show how to add metadata, use ns-publics 
> which means introducing var-quote, etc.
>
> There's a lot in that exercise that's exciting IMHO. If you want help 
> organizing something like that ping me privately.
>
> Cheers,
> '(Devin Walters)
>
> On Dec 16, 2012, at 2:44 PM, Marko Topolnik 
> > 
> wrote:
>
>
> My plan was to do something like this:
>>
>> *First half of the day*
>>
>> 1. install Leiningen and learn the basics
>> 2. get everyone an editing environment, with the option of using either 
>> Emacs, IntelliJ, or Eclipse
>> 3. teach the basics and let everyone follow along in their own environment
>>
>> *Second half of the day*
>>
>> Either: solve a smaller problem, like Game of Life, Langton's ant, or 
>> something similar
>> or: just build a Compojure web app, and incrementally improve this, and 
>> have it deployed in CloudBees or Heroku
>>
>
> Given this choice I'd go with the web app because it 
>
>- has greater impact (a publicly visible app) and 
>- doesn't involve the dullness of desktop GUI 
>
> There are a few basic things that I think they need to see:
>>
>>- how do I get started
>>- how is code modularized and packaged
>>- how can it be deployed and executed
>>- how does Java interop work
>>- how do I handle the regular problems I have previously used 
>>for-loops to solve
>>
>> Quite a good plan. Of course, don't forget the REPL :) 
>
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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[ulsa]

Thanks, I won't forget the REPL. 

I think, however, that there is a risk of a disconnect, where newcomers 
don't really grasp that there is a JVM running and that code is actually 
compiled and injected into it, and that it's for real. They are used to 
mickey mouse interactive tools that don't provide the real thing, and 
struggle to bridge the apparent gap between running code in the REPL and 
"properly compiling and running" files. There is no gap, but one needs to 
explain that, I think.

"When in doubt, lein repl."

On Sunday, 16 December 2012 21:44:33 UTC+1, Marko Topolnik wrote:
>
>
> My plan was to do something like this:
>>
>> *First half of the day*
>>
>> 1. install Leiningen and learn the basics
>> 2. get everyone an editing environment, with the option of using either 
>> Emacs, IntelliJ, or Eclipse
>> 3. teach the basics and let everyone follow along in their own environment
>>
>> *Second half of the day*
>>
>> Either: solve a smaller problem, like Game of Life, Langton's ant, or 
>> something similar
>> or: just build a Compojure web app, and incrementally improve this, and 
>> have it deployed in CloudBees or Heroku
>>
>
> Given this choice I'd go with the web app because it 
>
>- has greater impact (a publicly visible app) and 
>- doesn't involve the dullness of desktop GUI 
>
> There are a few basic things that I think they need to see:
>>
>>- how do I get started
>>- how is code modularized and packaged
>>- how can it be deployed and executed
>>- how does Java interop work
>>- how do I handle the regular problems I have previously used 
>>for-loops to solve
>>
>> Quite a good plan. Of course, don't forget the REPL :) 
>

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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[Devin Walters]

I think showing people how metadata works usually makes people start dreaming, 
and exposes them to docstrings and arglists which I think is crucial to 
self-directed learning.

So, I think I'd show them: (doc ...), and then show how that is metadata, and 
for quicker folks you could show how to add metadata, use ns-publics which 
means introducing var-quote, etc.

There's a lot in that exercise that's exciting IMHO. If you want help 
organizing something like that ping me privately.

Cheers,
'(Devin Walters)

On Dec 16, 2012, at 2:44 PM, Marko Topolnik  wrote:

> 
> My plan was to do something like this:
> 
> First half of the day
> 
> 1. install Leiningen and learn the basics
> 2. get everyone an editing environment, with the option of using either 
> Emacs, IntelliJ, or Eclipse
> 3. teach the basics and let everyone follow along in their own environment
> 
> Second half of the day
> 
> Either: solve a smaller problem, like Game of Life, Langton's ant, or 
> something similar
> or: just build a Compojure web app, and incrementally improve this, and have 
> it deployed in CloudBees or Heroku
> 
> Given this choice I'd go with the web app because it 
> has greater impact (a publicly visible app) and 
> doesn't involve the dullness of desktop GUI 
> There are a few basic things that I think they need to see:
> how do I get started
> how is code modularized and packaged
> how can it be deployed and executed
> how does Java interop work
> how do I handle the regular problems I have previously used for-loops to solve
> Quite a good plan. Of course, don't forget the REPL :) 
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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[Marko Topolnik]

> My plan was to do something like this:
>
> *First half of the day*
>
> 1. install Leiningen and learn the basics
> 2. get everyone an editing environment, with the option of using either 
> Emacs, IntelliJ, or Eclipse
> 3. teach the basics and let everyone follow along in their own environment
>
> *Second half of the day*
>
> Either: solve a smaller problem, like Game of Life, Langton's ant, or 
> something similar
> or: just build a Compojure web app, and incrementally improve this, and 
> have it deployed in CloudBees or Heroku
>

Given this choice I'd go with the web app because it 

   - has greater impact (a publicly visible app) and 
   - doesn't involve the dullness of desktop GUI 

There are a few basic things that I think they need to see:
>
>- how do I get started
>- how is code modularized and packaged
>- how can it be deployed and executed
>- how does Java interop work
>- how do I handle the regular problems I have previously used 
>for-loops to solve
>
> Quite a good plan. Of course, don't forget the REPL :) 

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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[ulsa]

Good points, thanks. 

It's so easy to overload them, because one wants to teach them every little 
piece of gold that's in there. I think it was in one of the old XP books, 
where there was this graph that showed which practices were supported by or 
enabled other practices. I would love to see something similar for the 
capabilities in Clojure. It would make it easier to see what can and can 
not be cut out from an introduction course.

My plan was to do something like this:

*First half of the day*

1. install Leiningen and learn the basics
2. get everyone an editing environment, with the option of using either 
Emacs, IntelliJ, or Eclipse
3. teach the basics and let everyone follow along in their own environment

*Second half of the day*

Either: solve a smaller problem, like Game of Life, Langton's ant, or 
something similar
or: just build a Compojure web app, and incrementally improve this, and 
have it deployed in CloudBees or Heroku

There are a few basic things that I think they need to see:

   - how do I get started
   - how is code modularized and packaged
   - how can it be deployed and executed
   - how does Java interop work
   - how do I handle the regular problems I have previously used for-loops 
   to solve
   

On Saturday, 15 December 2012 23:57:48 UTC+1, Marko Topolnik wrote:
>
> There is one advice I can give from my teaching experience: don't 
> overwhelm them with data. A person can assimilate only so many concepts in 
> a day, no matter whether the workshop lasts two or eight hours. 
>
> Pick a few key concepts and spend much time on approaching each concept 
> from many different angles. Have everyone involved with exercises. Make 
> layered exercises: each of those ten people is going to progress at their 
> own pace. Allow enough time for the slowest ones to get through the basic 
> part of the exercise, but have a stash of extra stuff for the quicker ones, 
> so they don't get bored and frustrated while waiting on others.
>
> On Saturday, December 15, 2012 11:13:21 PM UTC+1, ulsa wrote:
>>
>> In a couple of months, I'll have a whole day of teaching Clojure to ten 
>> of my colleagues. They are experienced Java programmers, but otherwise 
>> Clojure rookies. Any tips on how to structure such a workshop day?
>>
>

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Re: How to structure a Clojure day for noobs?

[Marko Topolnik]

There is one advice I can give from my teaching experience: don't overwhelm 
them with data. A person can assimilate only so many concepts in a day, no 
matter whether the workshop lasts two or eight hours. 

Pick a few key concepts and spend much time on approaching each concept 
from many different angles. Have everyone involved with exercises. Make 
layered exercises: each of those ten people is going to progress at their 
own pace. Allow enough time for the slowest ones to get through the basic 
part of the exercise, but have a stash of extra stuff for the quicker ones, 
so they don't get bored and frustrated while waiting on others.

On Saturday, December 15, 2012 11:13:21 PM UTC+1, ulsa wrote:
>
> In a couple of months, I'll have a whole day of teaching Clojure to ten of 
> my colleagues. They are experienced Java programmers, but otherwise Clojure 
> rookies. Any tips on how to structure such a workshop day?
>

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