Re: Learning clojure: debugging?
Not yet, I'll put this on my agenda. I need some research time not being
familiar yet with how it would translate in ClojureScript and if it's worthwhile
to implement it.
Comments from any one using ClojureScript ?
Luc
> Does Clojurescript have a trace function?
>
> On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Softaddicts
> wrote:
>
> > clojure.tools.trace beats println by far (biased advice, I maintain
> > it:)))
> > It's also easier to segregate between debug and normal output in the code.
> >
> > You can enable/disable fn tracing dynamically from the REPL for all fns in
> > a given
> > namespace.
> >
> > I seldom use a debugger. When I do it's to dive in the clojure runtime.
> >
> > The REPL and trace tool meet my needs most of the time.
> >
> > The trick is to avoid having huge chunks of code stuffed
> > in a single fn. It makes life harder. No dumb rule of thumb here (have no
> > more
> > than xx lines per fn, blabla, ...).
> >
> > Just make sure you have testable fns of reasonnable scope.
> >
> > With the trace output, you can then isolate the culprit and test it
> > standalone with
> > its input arguments captured from the trace (cut & paste).
> >
> > Luc P
> >
> > > On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Moritz Ulrich
> > > wrote:
> > > > I think one important point here is that you use two different data
> > > > structures to hold the same kind of data.
> > >
> > > Points and deltas are not the "same kind of data". Yes, they both have
> > > x/y/z values but their meaning is different. Perhaps {:point [x y z]}
> > > and {:delta [x y z]} might be a better choice (combining the vector
> > > approach you suggest while still distinguishing the 'types' that the
> > > OP wants)?
> > >
> > > > If you're using emacs and Slime, there's a full-blown debugger
> > > > integrated in swank-clojure. It features breakpoints, watches, etc.
> > >
> > > True, and it's very powerful.
> > >
> > > > When I encounter such problems, I usually just throw in one or two
> > > > println statements printing the parameters. This way it's easy to
> > > > check if wrong values are passed.
> > >
> > > Perhaps clojure.tools.trace would be easier?
> > >
> > > https://github.com/clojure/tools.trace
> > >
> > > (I keep meaning to switch to using this instead of just adding println
> > > statements!)
> > >
> > > > Adding some asserts is helpful too: In your case it would be wise to
> > > > check at the start of the `add' function if `delta' really has the
> > > > keys #{:dx :dy :dz}.
> > >
> > > Yes, :pre / :post would be another useful technique here! Good
> > suggestion!
> > > --
> > > Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
> > > An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
> > > World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/
> > >
> > > "Perfection is the enemy of the good."
> > > -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)
> > >
> > > --
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> > > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
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Re: Learning clojure: debugging?
Nvm. Not yet.
I'm reluctant to dive into clojurescript because the debugger and trace
functions aren't ready yet.
I suppose if I make test cases for everything and stick to tiny functions,
I should be alright.
Anyway, if Chris Granger uses it, it's probably pretty good.
HERE GOES!
On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 2:28 PM, Sean Neilan wrote:
> Does Clojurescript have a trace function?
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Softaddicts
> wrote:
>
>> clojure.tools.trace beats println by far (biased advice, I maintain
>> it:)))
>> It's also easier to segregate between debug and normal output in the code.
>>
>> You can enable/disable fn tracing dynamically from the REPL for all fns
>> in a given
>> namespace.
>>
>> I seldom use a debugger. When I do it's to dive in the clojure runtime.
>>
>> The REPL and trace tool meet my needs most of the time.
>>
>> The trick is to avoid having huge chunks of code stuffed
>> in a single fn. It makes life harder. No dumb rule of thumb here (have no
>> more
>> than xx lines per fn, blabla, ...).
>>
>> Just make sure you have testable fns of reasonnable scope.
>>
>> With the trace output, you can then isolate the culprit and test it
>> standalone with
>> its input arguments captured from the trace (cut & paste).
>>
>> Luc P
>>
>> > On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Moritz Ulrich
>> > wrote:
>> > > I think one important point here is that you use two different data
>> > > structures to hold the same kind of data.
>> >
>> > Points and deltas are not the "same kind of data". Yes, they both have
>> > x/y/z values but their meaning is different. Perhaps {:point [x y z]}
>> > and {:delta [x y z]} might be a better choice (combining the vector
>> > approach you suggest while still distinguishing the 'types' that the
>> > OP wants)?
>> >
>> > > If you're using emacs and Slime, there's a full-blown debugger
>> > > integrated in swank-clojure. It features breakpoints, watches, etc.
>> >
>> > True, and it's very powerful.
>> >
>> > > When I encounter such problems, I usually just throw in one or two
>> > > println statements printing the parameters. This way it's easy to
>> > > check if wrong values are passed.
>> >
>> > Perhaps clojure.tools.trace would be easier?
>> >
>> > https://github.com/clojure/tools.trace
>> >
>> > (I keep meaning to switch to using this instead of just adding println
>> > statements!)
>> >
>> > > Adding some asserts is helpful too: In your case it would be wise to
>> > > check at the start of the `add' function if `delta' really has the
>> > > keys #{:dx :dy :dz}.
>> >
>> > Yes, :pre / :post would be another useful technique here! Good
>> suggestion!
>> > --
>> > Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
>> > An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
>> > World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/
>> >
>> > "Perfection is the enemy of the good."
>> > -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups "Clojure" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
>> > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
>> your first post.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
>> >
>> --
>> Softaddicts sent by ibisMail from my ipad!
>>
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>
>
>
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Re: Learning clojure: debugging?
Does Clojurescript have a trace function?
On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Softaddicts wrote:
> clojure.tools.trace beats println by far (biased advice, I maintain
> it:)))
> It's also easier to segregate between debug and normal output in the code.
>
> You can enable/disable fn tracing dynamically from the REPL for all fns in
> a given
> namespace.
>
> I seldom use a debugger. When I do it's to dive in the clojure runtime.
>
> The REPL and trace tool meet my needs most of the time.
>
> The trick is to avoid having huge chunks of code stuffed
> in a single fn. It makes life harder. No dumb rule of thumb here (have no
> more
> than xx lines per fn, blabla, ...).
>
> Just make sure you have testable fns of reasonnable scope.
>
> With the trace output, you can then isolate the culprit and test it
> standalone with
> its input arguments captured from the trace (cut & paste).
>
> Luc P
>
> > On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Moritz Ulrich
> > wrote:
> > > I think one important point here is that you use two different data
> > > structures to hold the same kind of data.
> >
> > Points and deltas are not the "same kind of data". Yes, they both have
> > x/y/z values but their meaning is different. Perhaps {:point [x y z]}
> > and {:delta [x y z]} might be a better choice (combining the vector
> > approach you suggest while still distinguishing the 'types' that the
> > OP wants)?
> >
> > > If you're using emacs and Slime, there's a full-blown debugger
> > > integrated in swank-clojure. It features breakpoints, watches, etc.
> >
> > True, and it's very powerful.
> >
> > > When I encounter such problems, I usually just throw in one or two
> > > println statements printing the parameters. This way it's easy to
> > > check if wrong values are passed.
> >
> > Perhaps clojure.tools.trace would be easier?
> >
> > https://github.com/clojure/tools.trace
> >
> > (I keep meaning to switch to using this instead of just adding println
> > statements!)
> >
> > > Adding some asserts is helpful too: In your case it would be wise to
> > > check at the start of the `add' function if `delta' really has the
> > > keys #{:dx :dy :dz}.
> >
> > Yes, :pre / :post would be another useful technique here! Good
> suggestion!
> > --
> > Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
> > An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
> > World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/
> >
> > "Perfection is the enemy of the good."
> > -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Clojure" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
> > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
> your first post.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
> >
> --
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>
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Re: Learning clojure: debugging?
On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 1:55 AM, Vinzent wrote: > Actually, it's kinda the same (Fogus and me decided to merge trammel and > clojure-contracts into one library) Yeah, I figured. I just wanted to point people to the newly created contrib library since that's where (I assume) future development will occur. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/ "Perfection is the enemy of the good." -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Learning clojure: debugging?
Actually, it's kinda the same (Fogus and me decided to merge trammel and clojure-contracts into one library) воскресенье, 3 июня 2012 г., 6:31:50 UTC+6 пользователь Sean Corfield написал: > > On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 5:22 PM, Vinzent wrote: > > BTW, you may want to use clojure-contracts > > (https://github.com/dnaumov/clojure-contracts) instead of asserts or > > :pre\:post in order to get much nicer and informative error reporting. > > Or keep an eye on https://github.com/clojure/core.contracts currently > available as [org.clojure/core.contracts "0.0.1-SNAPSHOT"] > -- > Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN > An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ > World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/ > > "Perfection is the enemy of the good." > -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Learning clojure: debugging?
On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 5:22 PM, Vinzent wrote: > BTW, you may want to use clojure-contracts > (https://github.com/dnaumov/clojure-contracts) instead of asserts or > :pre\:post in order to get much nicer and informative error reporting. Or keep an eye on https://github.com/clojure/core.contracts currently available as [org.clojure/core.contracts "0.0.1-SNAPSHOT"] -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/ "Perfection is the enemy of the good." -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Learning clojure: debugging?
BTW, you may want to use clojure-contracts ( https://github.com/dnaumov/clojure-contracts) instead of asserts or :pre\:post in order to get much nicer and informative error reporting. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Learning clojure: debugging?
clojure.tools.trace beats println by far (biased advice, I maintain it:)))
It's also easier to segregate between debug and normal output in the code.
You can enable/disable fn tracing dynamically from the REPL for all fns in a
given
namespace.
I seldom use a debugger. When I do it's to dive in the clojure runtime.
The REPL and trace tool meet my needs most of the time.
The trick is to avoid having huge chunks of code stuffed
in a single fn. It makes life harder. No dumb rule of thumb here (have no more
than xx lines per fn, blabla, ...).
Just make sure you have testable fns of reasonnable scope.
With the trace output, you can then isolate the culprit and test it standalone
with
its input arguments captured from the trace (cut & paste).
Luc P
> On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Moritz Ulrich
> wrote:
> > I think one important point here is that you use two different data
> > structures to hold the same kind of data.
>
> Points and deltas are not the "same kind of data". Yes, they both have
> x/y/z values but their meaning is different. Perhaps {:point [x y z]}
> and {:delta [x y z]} might be a better choice (combining the vector
> approach you suggest while still distinguishing the 'types' that the
> OP wants)?
>
> > If you're using emacs and Slime, there's a full-blown debugger
> > integrated in swank-clojure. It features breakpoints, watches, etc.
>
> True, and it's very powerful.
>
> > When I encounter such problems, I usually just throw in one or two
> > println statements printing the parameters. This way it's easy to
> > check if wrong values are passed.
>
> Perhaps clojure.tools.trace would be easier?
>
> https://github.com/clojure/tools.trace
>
> (I keep meaning to switch to using this instead of just adding println
> statements!)
>
> > Adding some asserts is helpful too: In your case it would be wise to
> > check at the start of the `add' function if `delta' really has the
> > keys #{:dx :dy :dz}.
>
> Yes, :pre / :post would be another useful technique here! Good suggestion!
> --
> Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
> World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/
>
> "Perfection is the enemy of the good."
> -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Clojure" group.
> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your
> first post.
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> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
>
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Re: Learning clojure: debugging?
On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Moritz Ulrich
wrote:
> I think one important point here is that you use two different data
> structures to hold the same kind of data.
Points and deltas are not the "same kind of data". Yes, they both have
x/y/z values but their meaning is different. Perhaps {:point [x y z]}
and {:delta [x y z]} might be a better choice (combining the vector
approach you suggest while still distinguishing the 'types' that the
OP wants)?
> If you're using emacs and Slime, there's a full-blown debugger
> integrated in swank-clojure. It features breakpoints, watches, etc.
True, and it's very powerful.
> When I encounter such problems, I usually just throw in one or two
> println statements printing the parameters. This way it's easy to
> check if wrong values are passed.
Perhaps clojure.tools.trace would be easier?
https://github.com/clojure/tools.trace
(I keep meaning to switch to using this instead of just adding println
statements!)
> Adding some asserts is helpful too: In your case it would be wise to
> check at the start of the `add' function if `delta' really has the
> keys #{:dx :dy :dz}.
Yes, :pre / :post would be another useful technique here! Good suggestion!
--
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/
"Perfection is the enemy of the good."
-- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)
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Re: Learning clojure: debugging?
On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Abraham Egnor wrote:
> Is there some technique I'm not seeing to make this kind of simple
> typo-based error less of a hassle to track down? Or is this simply a matter
> of getting better at deciphering the stack traces?
I think one important point here is that you use two different data
structures to hold the same kind of data. Why use a map of #{:dx :dy
:dz} and a map of #{:x :y :z} for the same use? Why not represent
deltas using :x :y and :z too?
And if we're on this track, why a map? Will the points contain other
important data? If not, I'd just use a vector of n items, representing
n dimensions. This would simplify the code and make it much easier to
maintain. All functions could operate on generic vectors describing
any point in n-dimensional space :-)
Regarding the debugging statement:
If you're using emacs and Slime, there's a full-blown debugger
integrated in swank-clojure. It features breakpoints, watches, etc.
though I rarely use it.
When I encounter such problems, I usually just throw in one or two
println statements printing the parameters. This way it's easy to
check if wrong values are passed.
Adding some asserts is helpful too: In your case it would be wise to
check at the start of the `add' function if `delta' really has the
keys #{:dx :dy :dz}.
--
Moritz Ulrich
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Re: Learning clojure: debugging?
On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Abraham Egnor wrote:
> I'm early in the process of learning clojure, and am hoping that the
> community has suggestions for a frustration I've run into.
...
> I eventually tracked it down by evaluating each subexpression of line - the
> root bug is that mul should be returning a {:dx :dy :dz} map, not a {:x :y
> :z} one, so add gets nil for the subvalues, so in turn + raises the NPE.
...
> Is there some technique I'm not seeing to make this kind of simple
> typo-based error less of a hassle to track down? Or is this simply a matter
> of getting better at deciphering the stack traces?
I'm curious about your process for creating the solution...
Did you evolve it piece by piece in the REPL? Did you write tests for
each operation and then evolve the code until they passed? Did you
start at the top of the file and just write code until you got to the
bottom and then test the whole thing?
(obviously loaded questions - my follow-up would be that if you
started in the REPL or via a TDD-style approach, you'd have probably
caught the error earlier - but, yes, Clojure stack traces can be
pretty daunting at first)
Looking at the stack trace, the NPE comes from hex/core.clj line 8,
invoked from hex/core.clj line 42 inside the line function
(hex.core$line), during evaluation of an anonymous function (the
$fn__1022 part). That would narrow it down quite a bit and you could,
in the REPL, try (mul (delta :xy) 1) and see what you get, then (add
origin *1) ;; *1 is bound to the last result, (mul (delta :xy) 1) in
this case -- and you'd see your NPE and it should be easy to see
why... Which is why a REPL-first or test-first process would have hit
it as soon as you composed mul and add, or possibly even when you just
saw mul evaluated?
HTH... Welcome to Clojure, BTW!
--
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/
"Perfection is the enemy of the good."
-- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)
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