Re: clojure-based non-blocking webserver like Node.js
On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 3:01 AM, Tal Liron wrote: > > I always ask, though, why people think they need async I/O for a web > server. Async might be important if you are streaming video, audio, etc. > (And if you are, you're probably better off with a robust CDN.) > Async can also be good for chat-like services. Though it is probably overkill for the most other cases. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: clojure-based non-blocking webserver like Node.js
Can someone explain please what class threads are?? And whether is threads are expensive depends on the is On Sep 3, 2011 5:09 AM, "Raoul Duke" wrote: > On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 11:20 AM, billh2233 wrote: >> I like Node.js's non-blocking IO for performance reasons, though it is >> built around a single-threaded model whereas clojure is built around a >> multi-core/concurrency model. I wonder if the two concepts can be >> combined somehow. > > * python lets you combine processes, pre-emptive threads, and > coroutines. see the greenlet stuff. > > * class threads are heavy and context switches suck and that is one > reason people don't like them vs. the node.js speeds. however, look at > Erlang since it has very low context switching overhead, since it > doesn't use OS threads. > http://thatclevershark.org/benchmarks.html > > * theoretically, threads and event-driven styles are duals of each > other, or maybe the same thing at some level. > http://lamp.epfl.ch/~phaller/doc/haller07actorsunify.pdf > http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2006/04/unifying-events-and-threads-in-haskell.html > > sincerely. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: clojure-based non-blocking webserver like Node.js
Jetty and Grizzly also work great, and can be used as easily swappable connectors for Restlet, which in turn is used by Prudence's Clojure flavor (I'm the lead developer): http://threecrickets.com/prudence/ Jetty is the most mature of the bunch (Grizzly, Netty, MINA, etc.) and offers many more features. I always ask, though, why people think they need async I/O for a web server. Async might be important if you are streaming video, audio, etc. (And if you are, you're probably better off with a robust CDN.) But if your goal is to dynamically produce HTML, then async is close to meaningless: in the end, there must be a thread that generates the HTML (or fetched it from a cache), and that thread is likely in a pool. Sure, the socket may be read asynchronously, but you still have a thread pool at the top, with all the concerns to scalability that it entails. In fact, it's well known that some of the best performing static-file web servers are not async. For static-file web servers, async might help scalability, not performance (often these qualities are in opposition): it can help you degrade more gracefully per client under *very* high concurrency. But, depending on what you're doing, any kind of degradation may be unacceptable, and the real solution is probably to scale up/out. I wrote a long article examining these challenges as part of the Prudence Manual. There is a section that addresses async, and also highlights a select few use cases for it: http://threecrickets.com/prudence/scaling/#toc-Subsubsection-151 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: clojure-based non-blocking webserver like Node.js
2011/9/2 billh2233 > Is there a clojure-based webserver that uses non-blocking IO like > Node.js, or any effort like that being considered? > Java ecosystem has at least two very mature asynchronous I/O libraries: Netty and Apache MINA. Several Clojure projects that use Netty (http://www.jboss.org/netty): https://github.com/ztellman/aleph https://github.com/strobecorp/picard https://github.com/texodus/saturnine -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: clojure-based non-blocking webserver like Node.js
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 11:20 AM, billh2233 wrote: > I like Node.js's non-blocking IO for performance reasons, though it is > built around a single-threaded model whereas clojure is built around a > multi-core/concurrency model. I wonder if the two concepts can be > combined somehow. * python lets you combine processes, pre-emptive threads, and coroutines. see the greenlet stuff. * class threads are heavy and context switches suck and that is one reason people don't like them vs. the node.js speeds. however, look at Erlang since it has very low context switching overhead, since it doesn't use OS threads. http://thatclevershark.org/benchmarks.html * theoretically, threads and event-driven styles are duals of each other, or maybe the same thing at some level. http://lamp.epfl.ch/~phaller/doc/haller07actorsunify.pdf http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2006/04/unifying-events-and-threads-in-haskell.html sincerely. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: clojure-based non-blocking webserver like Node.js
look at https://github.com/ztellman/aleph it supprorts async, websocket, server side and client side, plus has redis support. very happy with it. On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:20 PM, billh2233 wrote: > Is there a clojure-based webserver that uses non-blocking IO like > Node.js, or any effort like that being considered? > > I like Node.js's non-blocking IO for performance reasons, though it is > built around a single-threaded model whereas clojure is built around a > multi-core/concurrency model. I wonder if the two concepts can be > combined somehow. > > Thoughts? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your > first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- Omnem crede diem tibi diluxisse supremum. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: clojure-based non-blocking webserver like Node.js
Hi, AFAIK, there's a java version of node.js, called Node.x : https://github.com/purplefox/node.x HTH, -- Laurent 2011/9/2 billh2233 > Is there a clojure-based webserver that uses non-blocking IO like > Node.js, or any effort like that being considered? > > I like Node.js's non-blocking IO for performance reasons, though it is > built around a single-threaded model whereas clojure is built around a > multi-core/concurrency model. I wonder if the two concepts can be > combined somehow. > > Thoughts? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
clojure-based non-blocking webserver like Node.js
Is there a clojure-based webserver that uses non-blocking IO like Node.js, or any effort like that being considered? I like Node.js's non-blocking IO for performance reasons, though it is built around a single-threaded model whereas clojure is built around a multi-core/concurrency model. I wonder if the two concepts can be combined somehow. Thoughts? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
