Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+--
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:  jasonbrooks
 Type:  defect |  Status:  closed
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:  fixed
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+--
Changes (by roshi):

 * status:  assigned => closed
 * resolution:   => fixed


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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+--
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:  jasonbrooks
 Type:  defect |  Status:  assigned
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+--

Comment (by jasonbrooks):

 Now on the wiki at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Cloud/Tutorials/cockpit-
 in-a-container

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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+--
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:  jasonbrooks
 Type:  defect |  Status:  assigned
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+--

Comment (by jasonbrooks):

 Blogged here: http://www.projectatomic.io/blog/2015/08/running-a
 -containerized-cockpit-ui-from-cloud-init/

 will check out where to add on the cloud wiki

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:23
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+--
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:  jasonbrooks
 Type:  defect |  Status:  assigned
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+--

Comment (by jasonbrooks):

 For cloud-init, the directions in the gist at
 https://gist.github.com/jasonbrooks/20cd3ebba36f851b957b work, I'm going
 to put these in a blog post and in the fedora cloud wiki.

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:22
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+--
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:  jasonbrooks
 Type:  defect |  Status:  assigned
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+--

Comment (by jasonbrooks):

 As discussed in the cloud wg meeting today, I'll work on the kickstart
 part of this and connect w/ dustymabe on smoothing the cloud-init part by
 2015-08-03.

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Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:21
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+--
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:  jasonbrooks
 Type:  defect |  Status:  assigned
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+--

Comment (by jasonbrooks):

 I'm working on the cloud-init part of this in this gist:
 https://gist.github.com/jasonbrooks/20cd3ebba36f851b957b.

 I have it working, mostly, but docker won't start until I reboot the VM.
 I'm not sure why -- any ideas?

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:20
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+--
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:  jasonbrooks
 Type:  defect |  Status:  assigned
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+--
Changes (by dustymabe):

 * status:  new = assigned
 * owner:   = jasonbrooks


Comment:

 jbrooks has volunteered to do some of the docs mentioned in the previous
 comment.

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:19
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by dustymabe):

 Ok so what I am hearing is that we probably don't want to include it at
 all inside atomic. We can have a vote on that. I would be +1 if we can
 publish some documentation:

 1 - How to bring up a cloud node and automatically download and start
 cockpit using cloud-init
 2 - How we can bring up a bare metal node and do the same thing (via
 kickstart??)

 If we can get those two items out then I think we can move forward with
 just doing the container. Agree/Disagree?

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:18
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by walters):

 Comment #11 was hardly ignoring - it raised a number of points which could
 use a reply.

 However as far as governance goes:
 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Cloud/Governance says:

 {{{
 For bigger issues, where there may be disagreement, or where there is
 long-term impact, or where an action may not easily be undone, we will use
 a ticketing system for voting https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/. Working
 group members can vote +1 to approve, -1 to disagree, or 0 to abstain;
 five +1 votes are necessary for a measure to pass.
 }}}

 And there is definitely disagreement here.

 I am not on the WG, but I am one of the people who commits most often to
 the manifest.  I would make the change if it had the +1 of 5 WG members,
 per the charter.  I'm also open to alternatives such as transferring
 ownership of the fedora-atomic git repo to the Cloud WG (giving members
 access), but I think for this issue the 5 +1s makes the most sense.

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:13
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by dustymabe):

 walters, jzb. Thank you for your input.

 At the time we did the meeting (2 weeks ago) the container story was a
 little farther off. Now we have some documentation
 (http://www.projectatomic.io/blog/2015/06/running-cockpit-as-a-service/)
 and perhaps can get the container included in atomic.

 I think if we can get the container story right and situated for the
 release of an updated atomic (as part of the updated releases
 https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/94) then I would +1 going forward
 with the container.

 If there are things that would block having it get into an updated atomic
 image then I would propose we stay with the rpm approach and get that into
 the updated image instead.

 Thoughts?

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:15
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by jzb):

 Finally coming back to this. So - I had known that containerizing Cockpit
 was in the offing, I hadn't realized that it was in the offing for F22.
 It's entirely possible that this information had crossed my screen at some
 point and it got lost in the shuffle - if so, mea culpa.

 I've installed and run Cockpit via container a few times for demos, and
 here's my current thinking now that I'm aware how easy this is, etc.:

 * We should avoid undue surprises, but...
 * We should also avoid churn
 * The container works well, and ...
 * Highlights the model we're seeking to promote with the Atomic host
 and...
 * We probably have fewer users inconvenienced/affected by this than, say,
 a random change in the desktop or something like that.

 All that said, I think I'm -1 on reverting the change at this point. If
 I'd spotted this before release, I'd feel differently, but I think we can
 just go forward from here.

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:14
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by dustymabe):

 Replying to [comment:10 walters]:

 You mentioned some of these points needed to be replied to.. I'll give it
 a stab.

  The thing, the whole point of this effort is to containerize.  Anyone
 who wants the traditional one set of packages model has plenty of other
 options *within Fedora*, such as Fedora Server and Fedora Cloud Base.
 
  There's also the aspect that even if we add cockpit into the tree in an
 update, anyone who does an initial install won't get it, so there will
 still be issues with that.

 We are planning to release updated images. Does that change your opinion?


 
  Finally, while Fedora 21 shipped with it enabled by default, I'm a bit
 hesistant to ship a new service that listens on the network by default in
 an update to Fedora 22.  It's very reasonable for organizations to
 evaluate a gold OS configuration, perform some customization including
 turning on/off services, setting up firewalling etc.  These types of
 deployments would be unhappy to have new services appear.

 If we don't want it to listen on the network by default and we are
 delivering as a container then should we just not include it at all?

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:16
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by dustymabe):

 So in comment#7 I stated the decision of the Cloud WG to revert back to
 the old rpm model for now. In comment#11 it looks like we are ignoring
 that. What can we do to move this forward?

 Is cockpit only going to be delivered via container in the future (for
 atomic and for non-atomic)?

 I think the important part of this is that the user has a good and
 consistent experience. If we can deliver that with containers *now* then
 we would be open to that approach. Otherwise we should revert and make
 that change for F23.

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:12
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by jzb):

 Replying to [comment:15 dustymabe]:
  walters, jzb. Thank you for your input.
 
  At the time we did the meeting (2 weeks ago) the container story was a
 little farther off. Now we have some documentation
 (http://www.projectatomic.io/blog/2015/06/running-cockpit-as-a-service/)
 and perhaps can get the container included in atomic.
 
  I think if we can get the container story right and situated for the
 release of an updated atomic (as part of the updated releases
 https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/94) then I would +1 going forward
 with the container.
 
  If there are things that would block having it get into an updated
 atomic image then I would propose we stay with the rpm approach and get
 that into the updated image instead.
 
  Thoughts?

 I don't think we want to put it in the atomic image. We'd be bloating the
 image significantly - over and above what it'd add just to have the RPMs
 for the additional cockpit components. The idea is that users who want
 Cockpit can easily add it with one command (sudo atomic install
 fedora/cockpitws) and those who don't simply don't need the additional
 space consumed by the packages.

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:17
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by scollier):

 In order to get cockpit to run on a F22 atomic host is two commands:

 docker pull fedora/cockpitws
 atomic run docker.io/fedora/cockpitws

 Then you are ready to go.

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:9
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by walters):

 The thing, the whole point of this effort is to containerize.  Anyone who
 wants the traditional one set of packages model has plenty of other
 options *within Fedora*, such as Fedora Server and Fedora Cloud Base.

 There's also the aspect that even if we add cockpit into the tree in an
 update, anyone who does an initial install won't get it, so there will
 still be issues with that.

 Finally, while Fedora 21 shipped with it enabled by default, I'm a bit
 hesistant to ship a new service that listens on the network by default in
 an update to Fedora 22.  It's very reasonable for organizations to
 evaluate a gold OS configuration, perform some customization including
 turning on/off services, setting up firewalling etc.  These types of
 deployments would be unhappy to have new services appear.

 (It's actually not completely easy to simply blacklist all services,
 because it's reasonable for e.g. nfs-utils to include a new internal
 service, and if you then disable it by default, you wouldn't want to break
 NFS.  This is more about services which listen on the network)

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:10
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by ausil):

 Replying to [comment:6 mattdm]:
  +1 to focusing on moving forward. I have great confidence that everyone
 here wants to do the right thing; there's just a lot up in the air all at
 once.
 
  I'm told that [https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ttomecek Tomas
 Tomecek] is working on something w.r.t. layered image building. Dennis, is
 that what you're referring to, or something else? If we land this for F23
 (ideally, as I know you like to do, before alpha), can we also turn it on
 for F22?

 That is what I am talking about, we can look at turning it on for f22
 updates also. It is still a way off, so I am not sure when we will be able
 to do it.

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:11
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by dustymabe):

 The Cloud WG discussed this today and the consensus is that we should
 revert to a traditional rpm/service based approach for F22 and re-release
 the container based approach at a future date with proper announcements
 and documentation that help people migrate easily.

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:7
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by kushal):

 Replying to [comment:7 dustymabe]:
  The Cloud WG discussed this today and the consensus is that we should
 revert to a traditional rpm/service based approach for F22 and re-release
 the container based approach at a future date with proper announcements
 and documentation that help people migrate easily.

 +1 from me.

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:8
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by mattdm):

 +1 to focusing on moving forward. I have great confidence that everyone
 here wants to do the right thing; there's just a lot up in the air all at
 once.

 I'm told that [https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ttomecek Tomas Tomecek]
 is working on something w.r.t. layered image building. Dennis, is that
 what you're referring to, or something else? If we land this for F23
 (ideally, as I know you like to do, before alpha), can we also turn it on
 for F22?

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:6
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by ausil):

 currently there we have no way to build and support containers and
 different layered images.  It is being worked on and hopefully will be
 landing in Fedora 23. for now we are likely best servered by adding
 cockpit abck to the images. and shipping it out in the next spin, though I
 am open to some other option that we can support.

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:5
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by walters):

 Although looking at this more I realize that a lot of the actual
 discussion happened out of band, and we didn't quite clearly communicate
 that Cockpit was effectively being removed from the host by default.

-- 
Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:4
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by walters):

 For reference the commit is here:

 https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/fedora-
 atomic.git/commit/?h=f22id=5a3cc4b0ee70ad4ff8d3729a72d215dda9de5595

 Which also links to discussion from February.  We expected to move faster
 on having Cockpit come as a container, but didn't identify as a priority
 having Fedora rel-eng ship it.

 It's done now, so let's focus on moving forward?  Which is having Fedora
 rel-eng be capable of building and delivering the image, right?

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Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:3
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by mattdm):

 I think it was premature to pull it from the base image before we are able
 to distribute it in our own infrastructure. I know Fedora Releng is
 _interested_ in being able to do that, but I don't know who if anyone is
 signed up to actually make that happen.

 In the above thread, it's raised as something for the FAD next week, but
 that doesn't really help for the current release. If we needed this
 yesterday, we needed to know about this... at least before yesterday.

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Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:2
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Re: [cloud] #105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22

[Fedora Cloud Trac Tickets]

#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
---+
 Reporter:  jzb|   Owner:
 Type:  defect |  Status:  new
 Priority:  blocker|   Milestone:  Fedora 22
Component:  Docker Host Image  |  Resolution:
 Keywords:  meeting|
---+

Comment (by walters):

 F22 only includes the Cockpit core, the rest comes as a container.  I
 noted this in the Fedora wiki page I can't find now that was supposed to
 list the changes.

 See also https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/rel-
 eng/2015-May/020170.html

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Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:1
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