Re: Stus-List 12 v nova-cool compressor replacement

[Alan Bergen]

Charles: 

Any refrigeration place could recharge the system for you, at a fraction of the 
cost of a new system. However, they use a different refrigerant than what was 
used in your unit when you bought it, so you may not be able to recharge it. 
You can get a whole new unit with compressor and evaporator for less than 
$1000, or you can contact any of the companies that sell the units, and buy 
just a new compressor. 


Alan Bergen 
C&C 35 Mk III Thirsty 
Rose City YC 
Portland, OR 


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Re: Stus-List Stopping a diesel

[Steve Thomas]

No problem unless you wanted to start it again some time. 

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Jim Watts
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:19 PM
To: 1 CnC List
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stopping a diesel


Urethane spray foam will do the job no problem. 




On 17 May 2013 20:07, Steve Thomas  wrote:

  Freon probably would have worked, and was available everywhere.  
  Can't think of anything that is readily available now that wouldn't also hurt 
your engine. 

  Steve Thomas
  C&C27 MKIII

  -Original Message-
  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Chuck S
  Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 10:10 PM
  To: billb...@sbcglobal.net; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Stus-List Stopping a diesel


  A long time ago, someone suggested keeping a spray can of something to stop a 
diesel.  What was that?


  Chuck
  Resolute
  1990 C&C 34R
  Atlantic City, NJ


--
  From: "Bill Bina" 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 6:08:27 PM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

  WD40 is very cagey about revealing that key ingredient. They will 
  enthusiastically tell you what it isn't. It isn't Kerosene or fish oil.  
  Lately they also swear it is not Stoddard solvent, but that really is 
  splitting less than a hair. It is so close to Stoddard solvent in makeup 
  that it is functionally the same thing. Stoddard Solvent is a bit more 
  refined than kerosene, but for starting a balky diesel, it is close 
  enough to water-white kerosene to work for that purpose. I think it has 
  a lower flash point than Stoddard solvent, which is an asset for this 
  purpose. The term Stoddard Solvent covers a range of petroleum 
  distillates. If someone calls the main ingredient of WD-40 "Stoddard 
  Solvent", I don't think you can call them wrong, regardless of marketing 
  department claims to the contrary.

  Bill Bina

  On 5/17/2013 6:00 PM, Knowles Rich wrote:
  > I've never even tried to burn WD40. Fish oil???
  >
  > Rich Knowles
  > Indigo. LF38
  > Halifax


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-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
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Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

[Rick Brass]

WD-40 was the diesel starting fluid of choice among the diesel mechanics I
knew. It is more combustible than diesel and much less explosive than ether.
Apparently it helps the first cold squirts of diesel to ignite and burn more
fully, which heats up the cylinder walls and promotes ignition. Most would
not use ether because of the potential for the ether to ignite too soon and
cause piston, pin, or connecting rod failures.

No diesel engine will start with fuel, pump, etc turned off. Cough maybe,
but not start.

Diesel starting was about the only thing my mechanic friends used wd-40 for,
actually. The penetrating oil of choice was PB-Blaster.


Rick Brass
Washington, NC



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Coleman
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 5:54 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

I have heard this remedy many times as well, and I always kept a can of
WD-40 on the boat for an emergency.
Then one time I actually tried it , several ways with fuel off, pump off,
etc, couldn't even get a dry fart out of my 107 Perkins. That was it, the
can came off the boat and up the hill. 
I don't know anyone who has actually gotten this "Miracle Juice" to work for
engine starting, I would be curious to hear if anyone else has? I believe it
is mostly Stoddard Solvent - 

Bill Coleman
C&C 39 




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Re: Stus-List Stopping a diesel

[Briard6]

The trouble with various sprays is that they may or may  not work, or may 
damage the engine. My suggestion is to cut off the air flow at  the intake. 
When my engine Yanmar  4JH "ran  away" (injection pump problem) I used a 
nearby small plastic container to block  the air intake. Engine slowed 
immediately and stopped.
 
Bill
MYSTY 
Landfall 39. 
 
 
In a message dated 5/17/2013 11:19:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
paradigmat...@gmail.com writes:

Urethane spray foam will do the job no problem. 



On 17 May 2013 20:07, Steve Thomas <_sthoma20@sympatico.ca_ 
(mailto:sthom...@sympatico.ca) > wrote:


Freon probably would have worked,  and was available everywhere.  
Can't think of anything that is  readily available now that wouldn't also 
hurt your engine.  

Steve Thomas
C&C27  MKIII
 
 

-Original  Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:_cnc-list-bounces@cnc-list.com_ 
(mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com) ]On Behalf Of Chuck  S
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 10:10 PM
To: _billbina@sbcglobal.net_ (mailto:billb...@sbcglobal.net) ; 
_cnc-list@cnc-list.com_ (mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com) 
Subject: Stus-List  Stopping a diesel


A long time ago, someone  suggested keeping a spray can of something to 
stop a diesel.  What was  that?

Chuck
Resolute
1990  C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ

 

From: "Bill Bina" <_billbina@sbcglobal.net_ (mailto:billb...@sbcglobal.net) 
>
To: _cnc-list@cnc-list.com_ (mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com) 
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013  6:08:27 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

WD40 is  very cagey about revealing that key ingredient. They will  
enthusiastically tell you what it isn't. It isn't Kerosene or fish oil.  
Lately they also swear it is not Stoddard solvent, but that really  is 
splitting less than a hair. It is so close to Stoddard solvent in  makeup 
that it is functionally the same thing. Stoddard Solvent is a bit  more 
refined than kerosene, but for starting a balky diesel, it is close  
enough to water-white kerosene to work for that purpose. I think it has  
a lower flash point than Stoddard solvent, which is an asset for this  
purpose. The term Stoddard Solvent covers a range of petroleum  
distillates. If someone calls the main ingredient of WD-40 "Stoddard  
Solvent", I don't think you can call them wrong, regardless of marketing  
department claims to the contrary.

Bill Bina

On 5/17/2013  6:00 PM, Knowles Rich wrote:
> I've never even tried to burn WD40.  Fish oil???
>
> Rich Knowles
> Indigo. LF38
>  Halifax


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-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk  III
Victoria,  BC



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Re: Stus-List Stopping a diesel

[Jim Watts]

Urethane spray foam will do the job no problem.


On 17 May 2013 20:07, Steve Thomas  wrote:

> **
> Freon probably would have worked, and was available everywhere.
> Can't think of anything that is readily available now that wouldn't also
> hurt your engine.
>
> Steve Thomas
> C&C27 MKIII
>
> -Original Message-
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]*On Behalf Of *Chuck
> S
> *Sent:* Friday, May 17, 2013 10:10 PM
> *To:* billb...@sbcglobal.net; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Stus-List Stopping a diesel
>
> A long time ago, someone suggested keeping a spray can of something to
> stop a diesel.  What was that?
>
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Atlantic City, NJ
> --
> *From: *"Bill Bina" 
> *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Sent: *Friday, May 17, 2013 6:08:27 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel
>
> WD40 is very cagey about revealing that key ingredient. They will
> enthusiastically tell you what it isn't. It isn't Kerosene or fish oil.
> Lately they also swear it is not Stoddard solvent, but that really is
> splitting less than a hair. It is so close to Stoddard solvent in makeup
> that it is functionally the same thing. Stoddard Solvent is a bit more
> refined than kerosene, but for starting a balky diesel, it is close
> enough to water-white kerosene to work for that purpose. I think it has
> a lower flash point than Stoddard solvent, which is an asset for this
> purpose. The term Stoddard Solvent covers a range of petroleum
> distillates. If someone calls the main ingredient of WD-40 "Stoddard
> Solvent", I don't think you can call them wrong, regardless of marketing
> department claims to the contrary.
>
> Bill Bina
>
> On 5/17/2013 6:00 PM, Knowles Rich wrote:
> > I've never even tried to burn WD40. Fish oil???
> >
> > Rich Knowles
> > Indigo. LF38
> > Halifax
>
>
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-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
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Re: Stus-List Stopping a diesel

[Steve Thomas]

Freon probably would have worked, and was available everywhere.  
Can't think of anything that is readily available now that wouldn't also hurt 
your engine. 

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Chuck S
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 10:10 PM
To: billb...@sbcglobal.net; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Stopping a diesel


A long time ago, someone suggested keeping a spray can of something to stop a 
diesel.  What was that?


Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ



From: "Bill Bina" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 6:08:27 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

WD40 is very cagey about revealing that key ingredient. They will 
enthusiastically tell you what it isn't. It isn't Kerosene or fish oil.  
Lately they also swear it is not Stoddard solvent, but that really is 
splitting less than a hair. It is so close to Stoddard solvent in makeup 
that it is functionally the same thing. Stoddard Solvent is a bit more 
refined than kerosene, but for starting a balky diesel, it is close 
enough to water-white kerosene to work for that purpose. I think it has 
a lower flash point than Stoddard solvent, which is an asset for this 
purpose. The term Stoddard Solvent covers a range of petroleum 
distillates. If someone calls the main ingredient of WD-40 "Stoddard 
Solvent", I don't think you can call them wrong, regardless of marketing 
department claims to the contrary.

Bill Bina

On 5/17/2013 6:00 PM, Knowles Rich wrote:
> I've never even tried to burn WD40. Fish oil???
>
> Rich Knowles
> Indigo. LF38
> Halifax


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Re: Stus-List Boat Name - Font

[Harry Hallgring]

Dwight,the new graphic on MIRAGE is Mistral fonthttp://www.flickr.com/photos/46147579@N08/HarryOn May 15, 2013, at 09:07 AM, "Dennis C."  wrote:Look at Segoe, Segoe Script or Mistral fonts.Dennis C. From: dwight veinot  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 7:36 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Boat Name - Font Someone on the list in the last few months recommended what a thought to be a nice font to use for a boat name but I can’t remember the font or who recommended it.  Help  Dwight VeinotC&C 35 MKII, AliannaHead of St. Margaret's Bay, NS___
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Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

[Chuck S]

Shoot it in the air intakeChuckResolute1990 C&C 34RAtlantic City, NJFrom: "David Knecht" To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comSent: Friday, May 17, 2013 9:21:55 PMSubject: Re: Stus-List Starting a dieselWhere do you squirt the WD40?  I doubt lubricating start button with it would help.  DaveShoot a 1/2 sec burst of WD40 it will kick off.
David KnechtAries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT

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Stus-List Stopping a diesel

[Chuck S]

A long time ago, someone suggested keeping a spray can of something to stop a 
diesel. What was that? 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -
From: "Bill Bina"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 6:08:27 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel 

WD40 is very cagey about revealing that key ingredient. They will 
enthusiastically tell you what it isn't. It isn't Kerosene or fish oil. 
Lately they also swear it is not Stoddard solvent, but that really is 
splitting less than a hair. It is so close to Stoddard solvent in makeup 
that it is functionally the same thing. Stoddard Solvent is a bit more 
refined than kerosene, but for starting a balky diesel, it is close 
enough to water-white kerosene to work for that purpose. I think it has 
a lower flash point than Stoddard solvent, which is an asset for this 
purpose. The term Stoddard Solvent covers a range of petroleum 
distillates. If someone calls the main ingredient of WD-40 "Stoddard 
Solvent", I don't think you can call them wrong, regardless of marketing 
department claims to the contrary. 

Bill Bina 

On 5/17/2013 6:00 PM, Knowles Rich wrote: 
> I've never even tried to burn WD40. Fish oil??? 
> 
> Rich Knowles 
> Indigo. LF38 
> Halifax 


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Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

[David Knecht]

Where do you squirt the WD40?  I doubt lubricating start button with it would help.  DaveShoot a 1/2 sec burst of WD40 it will kick off.
David KnechtAries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT

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Stus-List 12 v nova-cool compressor replacement

[Charles Nelson]

I think my 17+ year old nova cool compressor has died or lost the refrigerant. 
The fan on the unit runs but the coils in the ice box do not get cold.

My system appears to be 'sealed' since there is no obvious way to add 
refrigerant even if it is available and legal in 2013.

I don't want to replace the entire system since the copper tubing appears fine 
and the system worked well for all the years I used it, albeit sparingly--I am 
not a cruiser so it saw only limited use during race weekends and short weekend 
cruises.

What does the list think is the best way to restore my system?

Somehow determine if the refrigerant can be replenished.

Replace the compressor/fan unit with what 12 V system keeping the same tubing 
and cooling system in the icebox.

Bite the bullet and replace everything and if so with what.

Give up on an electrical system and just buy lots of ice.

I prefer to have it working but given my use of it, I prefer to keep the cost 
reasonable--that is less than 1 'boat' buck($1000).

As usual, I respect the advice of this list above anything else.

TIA,

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb



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Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

[Joe Della Barba]

IIRC, WD-40 changed to a non or much less flammable formula than before. The
old Westerbeake 4-107 in our old wood ketch fired right up in 30 degree
weather when I was a kid. I think it had a heater in the air intake. My
diesel Mercedes was a biatch and a half to start in cold weather when the
glowplugs got fouled.

 

Joe Della Barba

j...@dellabarba.com

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of schiller
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 6:26 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

 

WD40 works like a charm for my balky chainsaws.  My father taught that many
years ago.  I have a Mac chainsaw that needs several shots to warm it up
enough that it will take off on its own.  Have never tried it with a diesel
though.

Neil Schiller
1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
(C&C 35, Mark I)
"Corsair"
Ready for launch in Beautiful South Haven, Michigan (Friday launch)

On 5/17/2013 5:54 PM, Bill Coleman wrote:

I have heard this remedy many times as well, and I always kept a can of
WD-40 on the boat for an emergency.
Then one time I actually tried it , several ways with fuel off, pump off,
etc, couldn't even get a dry fart out of my 107 Perkins. That was it, the
can came off the boat and up the hill. 
I don't know anyone who has actually gotten this "Miracle Juice" to work for
engine starting, I would be curious to hear if anyone else has? I believe it
is mostly Stoddard Solvent - 
 
Bill Coleman
C&C 39 
 
 
-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Curtis
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 10:49 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel
 
Shoot a 1/2 sec burst of WD40 it will kick off.
 
 
On 5/17/13, Robert Gallagher   
wrote:

 
 
For a few days I was sure the three position toggle on the yanmar control
panel was for the glow plugs on my new (to me) yanmar 2gm20f.

 
 
   I would flip that toggle switch for 30 seconds and she would fire right
up.
 

 

 
As I moved the boat further north from Annapolis to Mystic the spring
mornings got colder and I started to think I might need new glow
plugs..that's when I figured it out ..lol
 
 
OK...I gotta ask.

 
I have a 1981 3QM30.  Purrs like a kitten.
 
No glow plug.  Start up cold just fine.  Just a few more cranks.
Before
this engine  I thought all diesels had glow plugs.
 
What gives?
 
 
David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)
 
 

 

 
 

 

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Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

[schiller]

WD40 works like a charm for my balky chainsaws. My father taught that 
many years ago.  I have a Mac chainsaw that needs several shots to warm 
it up enough that it will take off on its own.  Have never tried it with 
a diesel though.


Neil Schiller
1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
(C&C 35, Mark I)
"Corsair"
Ready for launch in Beautiful South Haven, Michigan (Friday launch)
On 5/17/2013 5:54 PM, Bill Coleman wrote:

I have heard this remedy many times as well, and I always kept a can of
WD-40 on the boat for an emergency.
Then one time I actually tried it , several ways with fuel off, pump off,
etc, couldn't even get a dry fart out of my 107 Perkins. That was it, the
can came off the boat and up the hill.
I don't know anyone who has actually gotten this "Miracle Juice" to work for
engine starting, I would be curious to hear if anyone else has? I believe it
is mostly Stoddard Solvent -

Bill Coleman
C&C 39


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Curtis
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 10:49 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

Shoot a 1/2 sec burst of WD40 it will kick off.


On 5/17/13, Robert Gallagher  wrote:


For a few days I was sure the three position toggle on the yanmar control
panel was for the glow plugs on my new (to me) yanmar 2gm20f.


I would flip that toggle switch for 30 seconds and she would fire right
up.

As I moved the boat further north from Annapolis to Mystic the spring
mornings got colder and I started to think I might need new glow
plugs..that's when I figured it out ..lol


OK...I gotta ask.

I have a 1981 3QM30.  Purrs like a kitten.

No glow plug.  Start up cold just fine.  Just a few more cranks.
Before
this engine  I thought all diesels had glow plugs.

What gives?


David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)






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Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

[Bill Bina]

WD40 is very cagey about revealing that key ingredient. They will 
enthusiastically tell you what it isn't. It isn't Kerosene or fish oil.  
Lately they also swear it is not Stoddard solvent, but that really is 
splitting less than a hair. It is so close to Stoddard solvent in makeup 
that it is functionally the same thing. Stoddard Solvent is a bit more 
refined than kerosene, but for starting a balky diesel, it is close 
enough to water-white kerosene to work for that purpose. I think it has 
a lower flash point than Stoddard solvent, which is an asset for this 
purpose. The term Stoddard Solvent covers a range of petroleum 
distillates. If someone calls the main ingredient of WD-40 "Stoddard 
Solvent", I don't think you can call them wrong, regardless of marketing 
department claims to the contrary.


Bill Bina

On 5/17/2013 6:00 PM, Knowles Rich wrote:

I've never even tried to burn WD40. Fish oil???

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax



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Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

[Knowles Rich]

I've never even tried to burn WD40. Fish oil???

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On 2013-05-17, at 18:54, "Bill Coleman"  wrote:

I have heard this remedy many times as well, and I always kept a can of
WD-40 on the boat for an emergency.
Then one time I actually tried it , several ways with fuel off, pump off,
etc, couldn't even get a dry fart out of my 107 Perkins. That was it, the
can came off the boat and up the hill. 
I don't know anyone who has actually gotten this "Miracle Juice" to work for
engine starting, I would be curious to hear if anyone else has? I believe it
is mostly Stoddard Solvent - 

Bill Coleman
C&C 39 


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Curtis
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 10:49 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

Shoot a 1/2 sec burst of WD40 it will kick off.


On 5/17/13, Robert Gallagher  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> For a few days I was sure the three position toggle on the yanmar control
>> panel was for the glow plugs on my new (to me) yanmar 2gm20f.
> 
> 
>   I would flip that toggle switch for 30 seconds and she would fire right
> up.
> 
>> 
> 
> As I moved the boat further north from Annapolis to Mystic the spring
> mornings got colder and I started to think I might need new glow
> plugs..that's when I figured it out ..lol
> 
> 
> OK...I gotta ask.
>> 
>> I have a 1981 3QM30.  Purrs like a kitten.
>> 
>> No glow plug.  Start up cold just fine.  Just a few more cranks.
>> Before
>> this engine  I thought all diesels had glow plugs.
>> 
>> What gives?
>> 
>> 
>> David F. Risch
>> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>> 
>> 
> 


-- 
"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to
change; the realist adjusts the sails."

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Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

[Bill Coleman]

I have heard this remedy many times as well, and I always kept a can of
WD-40 on the boat for an emergency.
Then one time I actually tried it , several ways with fuel off, pump off,
etc, couldn't even get a dry fart out of my 107 Perkins. That was it, the
can came off the boat and up the hill. 
I don't know anyone who has actually gotten this "Miracle Juice" to work for
engine starting, I would be curious to hear if anyone else has? I believe it
is mostly Stoddard Solvent - 

Bill Coleman
C&C 39 


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Curtis
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 10:49 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

Shoot a 1/2 sec burst of WD40 it will kick off.


On 5/17/13, Robert Gallagher  wrote:
>>
>>
>> For a few days I was sure the three position toggle on the yanmar control
>> panel was for the glow plugs on my new (to me) yanmar 2gm20f.
>
>
>I would flip that toggle switch for 30 seconds and she would fire right
> up.
>
>>
>
> As I moved the boat further north from Annapolis to Mystic the spring
> mornings got colder and I started to think I might need new glow
> plugs..that's when I figured it out ..lol
>
>
> OK...I gotta ask.
>>
>> I have a 1981 3QM30.  Purrs like a kitten.
>>
>> No glow plug.  Start up cold just fine.  Just a few more cranks.
>> Before
>> this engine  I thought all diesels had glow plugs.
>>
>> What gives?
>>
>>
>> David F. Risch
>> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>>
>>
>


-- 
"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to
change; the realist adjusts the sails."

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Re: Stus-List Atomic 4 history was Marine vs Automotive parts

[djhaug...@juno.com]

YEA!!  Thats some history!  I'm a proud A4 owner.  Its like the harley davidson 
in boating!

-- Original Message --
From: dre...@gmail.com
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Atomic 4 history was Marine vs Automotive parts
Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 11:41:34 -0400


Hi,  This is from Wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Atomic_4   
The Atomic 4 is descended from an earlier Universal Motor Company design called 
the Utility Four, which was used extensively in World War II by the United 
States Navy and allies to power the lifeboats for the ships, barges, and 
tankers of many navies and merchant marine fleets. The Utility Four was 
replaced by the Atomic 4 in 1947.
-
Paul E.
1979 C&C 29 Mk1
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL 
On May 17, 2013, at 8:33 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:Date: Fri, 17 
May 2013 09:23:05 -0300From: "Hoyt, Mike" To: 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive 
partsMessage-ID:<4cdebb6b0f16c541ba8f985b72705d5416021...@hfxexc02.impgroup.com>Content-Type:
 text/plain; charset="us-ascii"I once heard a story that the Atomic 4 was the 
power plant in the WW IIlanding craft.  Anyone know if this is true? 
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Stus-List Atomic 4 history was Marine vs Automotive parts

[dreuge]

Hi,


This is from Wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Atomic_4



The Atomic 4 is descended from an earlier Universal Motor Company design called 
the Utility Four, which was used extensively in World War II by the United 
States Navy and allies to power the lifeboats for the ships, barges, and 
tankers of many navies and merchant marine fleets. The Utility Four was 
replaced by the Atomic 4 in 1947.




-
Paul E.
1979 C&C 29 Mk1
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL

On May 17, 2013, at 8:33 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:

> Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 09:23:05 -0300
> From: "Hoyt, Mike" 
> To: 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts
> Message-ID:
>   <4cdebb6b0f16c541ba8f985b72705d5416021...@hfxexc02.impgroup.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I once heard a story that the Atomic 4 was the power plant in the WW II
> landing craft.  Anyone know if this is true?

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Re: Stus-List Starting a Universal

[Della Barba, Joe]

Besides for all that, some boats have wire runs long enough, thin enough, or 
corroded enough that the glow plugs will drop the battery voltage to where the 
starter solenoid won't activate and the starter button seemingly does nothing. 
I don't have glow plugs, but I did add an extra relay near the starter so the 
start button only has to pull that relay in instead of activating the solenoid. 
Works great :)

Joe Della Barba

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick Brass
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 10:41 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a Universal

Some diesels don't use glow plugs. Normally they are direct injection and have 
higher compression than engines that use glow plugs. Requires a more powerful 
starter, faster crank speed, they are harder to start but easier to get 
compliance with emissions standards.

Engines with glow plugs are normally indirect injection. Plug heats the air in 
a pre-combustion passage in the cylinder head and hot air ignites the fuel. 
Easier starting (as long as the plugs work), lower injection pressures on pump 
and injectors, harder to get emissions compliance and complete combustion on 
cold start.

There are other systems as well. The new Ultra High pressure common rail 
Cummins engines (like you find in your pickup truck) have a heating grid in the 
air intake that heats the air in the intake manifold until the engine is up to 
temperature. DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT USE STARTING FLUID ON ONE OF THESE BECAUSE IT 
WILL FLASH BACK IN YOUR FACE.

The strangest system I've personally seen is on older Perkins 6-cylinder 
engines used in construction equipment and larger forklifts. It had a 
thermostatically controlled solenoid that bled hot fuel into the intake 
manifold. This enriched the mixture and aided starting. It also smoked like the 
devil and smelled like a refinery when the solenoid valve leaked - and they all 
leaked after a relatively short while.

Glow plugs or not is an engineering tradeoff made by manufacturers depending on 
costs, philosophy, and engine application, I don't think any Yanmar marine 
engine I know of uses glow plugs, but the 65HP 4 cylinder industrial engines do.


Rick Brass
Washington, NC



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Risch
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:58 AM
To: CNC CNC
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a Universal

OK...I gotta ask.

I have a 1981 3QM30.  Purrs like a kitten.

No glow plug.  Start up cold just fine.  Just a few more cranks.Before this 
engine  I thought all diesels had glow plugs.

What gives?


David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)

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Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

[Curtis]

Shoot a 1/2 sec burst of WD40 it will kick off.


On 5/17/13, Robert Gallagher  wrote:
>>
>>
>> For a few days I was sure the three position toggle on the yanmar control
>> panel was for the glow plugs on my new (to me) yanmar 2gm20f.
>
>
>I would flip that toggle switch for 30 seconds and she would fire right
> up.
>
>>
>
> As I moved the boat further north from Annapolis to Mystic the spring
> mornings got colder and I started to think I might need new glow
> plugs..that's when I figured it out ..lol
>
>
> OK...I gotta ask.
>>
>> I have a 1981 3QM30.  Purrs like a kitten.
>>
>> No glow plug.  Start up cold just fine.  Just a few more cranks.
>> Before
>> this engine  I thought all diesels had glow plugs.
>>
>> What gives?
>>
>>
>> David F. Risch
>> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>>
>>
>


-- 
“The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to
change; the realist adjusts the sails.”

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Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

[Della Barba, Joe]

That makes sense. The Jeep engine was around 120 cubic inches IIRC and the A4 
is 60.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina

From: Bill Bina [mailto:billb...@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 8:47 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Della Barba, Joe
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

That may be the source of the incorrect stories about A4 being derived from a 
jeep engine. I almost bought an old  Coast Guard surplus surf rescue boat about 
40 years ago. It had a 4 cylinder Gray Marine engine, but some of the castings 
had JEEP embossed on them. So, some WWII boats did have 4 cylinder marinized 
Jeep engines, but they were not the A4.

Bill Bina

On 5/17/2013 8:36 AM, Della Barba, Joe wrote:
They got used in a TON of WW II boats of various types, but they weren't A4s 
then. I think the 1940s version was called a "Utility 4".

Joe Della Barba

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 8:23 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

I once heard a story that the Atomic 4 was the power plant in the WW II landing 
craft.  Anyone know if this is true?


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Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

[Della Barba, Joe]

http://www.clrmarine.com/553.html

A lot of Universal engines went into lifeboats and got used to run pumps and 
water makers in WW II. No reference to landing craft, but I swear I saw that 
someplace. Would have had to have been a relatively small one to get by on 40 
HP.

Joe Della Barba

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Knowles Rich
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 9:23 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

Amazing what a bit of wartime pressure will do!

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On 2013-05-17, at 10:13, "Dennis C."  wrote:

> When asked to develop a new boat for the military, he designed, built and 
> tested it in 96 hours!

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Re: Stus-List Overheating due to plugged knuckle

[Josh Muckley]

Well said Terry...well said.

-- 
When security matters.
http://www.secure-my-email.com
On May 15, 2013 6:06 PM, "Terry"  wrote:

>   Fred, the older Yanmars have a reciprocating dingle valve to control
> the exhaust temperature in the fluval chamber. As you have already noticed,
> once the engine warms up, the dingle valve opens and lets the hot engine
> exhaust pass through the fluval chamber removing any excess unburned fuel.
> The newer engines have replaced the dingle valve with a resonating bundle
> arm so they don’t smoke even when just started.
>
> Hope this helps...T
>
>  *From:* Fred Hazzard 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 15, 2013 2:54 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Overheating due to plugged knuckle
>
>
> Rick:
>
> 
>
> My 1986 4 cyl Yanmar smokes a bit when first started.  After about 5 mins
> of motoring at about ¾ throttle it smokes very little.  An thoughts from
> your experience with these Yanmars?  I have no idea of the hours as the
> hour meter was broken and showing 1100 hours when I bought the boat in
> 2007.  This engine starts very easily and runs well.
>
> 
>
> Fred Hazzard
>
> S/V Fury
>
> C&C 44
>
> Portland, Or
>
> 
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick
> Brass
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:38 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Overheating due to plugged knuckle
>
> 
>
> Russ is correct. With proper care, clean fuel, regular air cleaner
> changes, etc.  10.000 hours is attainable. In the forklift business, we
> routinely saw 16,000 or so hours out of the 4 cylinder Yanmars we used in
> the smaller trucks.
>
> 
>
> Regarding the cost of an injector service, The last injector service on my
> previous engine (PO saved $300 on the exhaust installation, and cost me $8k
> for a replacement engine) was about $275 for four injectors.
>
> 
>
> 
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> *From:* CnC-List 
> [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
> *On Behalf Of *Russ & Melody
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 14, 2013 11:19 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Overheating due to plugged knuckle
>
> 
>
> Hi Don,
>
> The black junk that plugs the mixing elbow can certainly be unburned
> carbon from a bad injector. A Yanmar that has only 1800 is a long way from
> the 5,000  hours you can get from an abused one these puppies. 10,000 hours
> is attainable with decent care. It probably just needs servicing, not
> replacing or a rebuild.
>
> My advice is get a guy to remove the injectors and bring them up to
> Nanaimo to have 'em serviced/rebuilt by Floyd at Action Fuel Injection. He
> is the best diesel fuel system dude on Vancouver Island. I think the latest
> guess is $100 - 150  per injector... but maybe phone Floyd for a chat.
>
> Cheers, Russ
> *Sweet *35 mk-1
>
> At 10:28 AM 14/05/2013, you wrote:
>
> Hi Kim
>
> Thanks for this.  It is what I'm worried about.  The boat has started to
> blow extra smoke on start and I'm thinking unburned diesel. It also blows
> smoke when you idle down for a bit and then rev up again.  Once warmed up
> it
> seems fine. I've got a mechanic coming in a couple of weeks (they are
> backed
> up here in Victoria).
>
> What I worry about is the slippery slope on an old engine.  It is 1981 with
> around 1800 hours and raw water cooled.  It runs fairly nicely but.  I
> also worry about the cost of a new engine which would not materially change
> the value of the boat - as people were saying earlier - boats cheap, parts
> expensive.
>
> How many boat units did getting the injectors cost if you don't mind
> sharing.
>
> Don
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kim Brown [mailto:kimcbr...@comcast.net ]
> Sent: May-13-13 2:50 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List Overheating due to plugged knuckle
>
>
> Don
> Just went through this with my 3GMF30. Had Diesel Dan (really) out because
> we are headed to the Abacos next month. (anyone going to be there for
> Regatta Time?) I was suspicious of injectors- boat was running but xtra
> smoke on start, oily exhaust water.  So better here than there. Had the
> injectors rebuilt and as part of the looksie he checked elbow and assorted
> other potential trouble spots.  The knuckle was almost closed with gunk and
> was replaced. Never did overheat but that may be more because there is flow
> tapped off for my dripless allowing some flow to continue besides the
> meager
> amount still passing through the knuckle. The injector rebuild really
> worked
> wonders- thought it was running ok before but now smoke is minimal, pops
> right off, runs cooler and smoother. My guess is the gunk was unburnt fuel
> building up. Your mileage may vary but that is another path to explore.
> I had replaced the elbow about a year ago and the knuckle was fine then so
> it built up relatively quickly. And 

Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

[Knowles Rich]

Amazing what a bit of wartime pressure will do!

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On 2013-05-17, at 10:13, "Dennis C."  wrote:

> When asked to develop a new boat for the military, he designed, built and 
> tested it in 96 hours!

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Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

[Josh Muckley]

As I understand it the HM/GM series of Yanmar was designed with
pre-combustion chambers that allow it to work fine without glow plugs.  I
don't understand exactly how the chambers eliminate the need for glow plugs
or why every manufacturer would not employ this design.

I don't use the switch on mine but I think it was for turning the gage
lights on.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Yanmar 3HM35F

-- 
When security matters.
http://www.secure-my-email.com
On May 17, 2013 8:59 AM, "Robert Gallagher"  wrote:

>
>> For a few days I was sure the three position toggle on the yanmar control
>> panel was for the glow plugs on my new (to me) yanmar 2gm20f.
>
>
>I would flip that toggle switch for 30 seconds and she would fire right
> up.
>
>>
>
> As I moved the boat further north from Annapolis to Mystic the spring
> mornings got colder and I started to think I might need new glow
> plugs..that's when I figured it out ..lol
>
>
> OK...I gotta ask.
>>
>> I have a 1981 3QM30.  Purrs like a kitten.
>>
>> No glow plug.  Start up cold just fine.  Just a few more cranks.Before
>> this engine  I thought all diesels had glow plugs.
>>
>> What gives?
>>
>>
>> David F. Risch
>> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>>
>>
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> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

[Dennis C.]

The Higgins LCVP (Landing Craft Vehicle Personnel) was the smallest of the 
landing craft family.  It was powered by a Gray Marine diesel or a Hall-Scott 
gasoline engine. Those engines were rated at 165hp or better. 

The development of the LCVP is a featured exhibit at the WWII Museum in New 
Orleans. Higgins was a boatbuilding genius. When asked to develop a new boat 
for the military, he designed, built and tested it in 96 hours!

The museum is a highly recommended attraction in New Orleans. 

In the navy, I was the deck officer on an old LST (large slow target). It had 
LCVP's. interesting boat to drive. 

Dennis C.
Touché 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

Sent from my iPhone

On May 17, 2013, at 7:59 AM, Knowles Rich  wrote:

> Sounds a bit small for that application. Supercharged maybe:)
> 
> Rich Knowles
> Indigo. LF38
> Halifax
> 
> On 2013-05-17, at 9:23, "Hoyt, Mike"  wrote:
> 
> I once heard a story that the Atomic 4 was the power plant in the WW II 
> landing craft.  Anyone know if this is true?
> 
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della 
> Barba, Joe
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 9:03 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts
> 
> The Atomic 4 is not a Jeep engine. It was always a marine engine and given 
> the layout of the flywheel and transmission, could not possibly ever be used 
> in a car, tractor, or any type of motor vehicle. Universal never used an 
> outside source for the A4 and others in the series – they cast their own 
> blocks specifically for marine use.
> As for explosions, a *C&C 35 MK I* did actually explode and burn and mine 
> came close to doing the same. C&C used some scrap copper pipe and a hardware 
> store 90 degree rubber fitting to get the fuel fill hose onto the tank with 
> almost no clearance under the cockpit. These parts were never even rated for 
> normal fuel, let alone ethanol crapgas. Mine started to come apart and when I 
> dumped 5 gallons of gas in the tank, about 2 made it to the tank and 3 went 
> in the bilge. Good thing I ran the blower and investigated when it smelled 
> like gas. I got a local shop to fabricate an aluminum 90 degree piece for me 
> and all is well now. Despite me telling them no one would be able to see it, 
> they made me a piece of welding art with the seams polished and friction 
> bands scribed into the pipe and charged me $160 for it! So……..if I ever take 
> the fuel system apart again I can admire it J
>  
> Anyway – points, condensers, plugs, wires, belts, and hoses are all “free” to 
> use whatever, but the starter, distributor cap, alternator, and carb all have 
> specific features for marine use. For one example, the 99% identical tractor 
> version of the carb has a drain hole so that any gas overflow leaks right out 
> of the carb into the bilge. The marine version has a scavenger tube. If 
> anyone with a diesel tells me about safety, I will 99% of the time be able to 
> point to their propane stove and about 50% of the time point to a can of gas 
> for the dinghy shoved into some random totally unsafe spot LOL
>  
> Joe Della Barba
> Coquina
> C&C 35 MK I
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight 
> veinot
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 7:26 AM
> To: billb...@sbcglobal.net; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts
>  
> Bill
>  
> I agree with you about the hazards of gasoline, that was one reason I did not 
> like having a sailboat with a gas engine but I can’t remember hearing of any 
> explosions involving an Atomic 4 engine in a sailboat and there were a lot of 
> those engines used in sailboats that were of the vintage of my 1974 C&C.  I 
> always used the bilge blower and took care to smell for gas in the engine 
> space before starting. I believe for the Atomic 4 engine which I think 
> started out as a jeep engine that AC Delco parts were actually the 
> recommended replacement ignition parts.  I think some people have converted 
> these older Atomic 4 sailboat engines to electronic ignition systems and I 
> think that is probably a worthwhile change for reliability and smooth 
> operation. These engines have driven sailboats quite successfully for many 
> years and many are still in service and working well, even those that have 
> been raw water cooled with salt water, like many I know of around here, the 
> one that is in the 27 which I owned included.
>  
> Dwight Veinot
> C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina
> Sent: May 17, 2013 6:55 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts
>  
> Belts don't matter, but for gasoline engines on a boat, the difference in 
> marine parts vs automotive parts can be the difference between life and 
> death. It's not a reliability issue or how well the part performs. It's an 
> EXPLOSION issue. Gasoline f

Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

[Knowles Rich]

Sounds a bit small for that application. Supercharged maybe:)

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On 2013-05-17, at 9:23, "Hoyt, Mike"  wrote:

I once heard a story that the Atomic 4 was the power plant in the WW II landing 
craft.  Anyone know if this is true?

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della Barba, 
Joe
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 9:03 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

The Atomic 4 is not a Jeep engine. It was always a marine engine and given the  
layout of the flywheel and transmission, could not possibly ever be used in a 
car, tractor, or any type of motor vehicle. Universal never used an outside 
source for the A4 and others in the series – they cast their own blocks  
specifically for marine use.
As for explosions, a *C&C 35 MK I* did actually explode and burn and mine came 
close to doing the same. C&C used some scrap copper pipe and a hardware store 
90 degree rubber fitting to get the fuel fill hose onto the tank with almost no 
clearance under the cockpit. These parts were never even rated for normal fuel, 
let alone ethanol crapgas. Mine started to come apart and when I dumped 5 
gallons of gas in the tank, about 2 made it to the tank and 3 went in the 
bilge. Good thing I ran the blower and investigated when it smelled like gas. I 
got a local shop to fabricate an aluminum 90 degree piece for me and all is 
well now. Despite me telling them no one would be able to see it, they made me 
a piece of welding art with the seams polished and friction bands scribed into 
the pipe and charged me $160 for it! So……..if I ever take the fuel system  
apart again I can admire it J
 
Anyway – points, condensers, plugs, wires, belts, and hoses are all “free” to 
use whatever, but the starter, distributor cap, alternator, and carb all have 
specific features for marine use. For one example, the 99% identical tractor 
version of the carb has a drain hole so that any gas overflow leaks right out 
of the carb into the bilge. The marine version has a scavenger tube. If anyone 
with a diesel tells me about safety, I will 99% of the time be able to point to 
their propane stove and about 50% of the time point to a can of gas for the 
dinghy shoved into some random totally unsafe spot LOL
 
Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 7:26 AM
To: billb...@sbcglobal.net; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts
 
Bill
 
I agree with you about the hazards of gasoline, that was one reason I did not 
like having a sailboat with a gas engine but I can’t remember hearing of any 
explosions involving an Atomic 4 engine in a sailboat and there were a lot of  
those engines used in sailboats that were of the vintage of my 1974 C&C.  I 
always used the bilge blower and took care to smell for gas in the engine space 
before starting. I believe for the Atomic 4 engine which I think started out as 
a jeep engine that AC Delco parts were actually the recommended replacement 
ignition parts.  I think some people have converted these older Atomic 4 
sailboat engines to electronic ignition systems and I think that is probably a 
worthwhile change for reliability and smooth operation. These engines have 
driven sailboats quite successfully for many years and many are still in 
service and working well, even those that have been raw water cooled with salt 
water, like many I know of around here, the one that is in the 27 which I owned 
included.
 
Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina
Sent: May 17, 2013 6:55 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts
 
Belts don't matter, but for gasoline engines on a boat, the difference in 
marine parts vs automotive parts can be the difference between life and death. 
It's not a reliability issue or how well the part performs. It's an EXPLOSION 
issue. Gasoline fumes are heavier than air. A car engine compartment is open on 
the bottom, and has TONS of air flow. The engine situation in a boat is 
completely different. It is closed on the bottom, and air flow is fairly 
minimal. That's why they make special ignition parts, alternators, starters, 
carbs, etc for use in boats. You know those scenes in movies where a boat 
explodes in a fireball and burns to the waterline in minutes? That is a 
realistic depiction. They really do that. I've seen it happen twice. 

Bill Bina

On 5/17/2013 5:01 AM, dwight veinot wrote:
OK I am happy with that and the AC Delco parts worked very well in my ATOMIC 4 
engine but I don’t think there was anything about them that suggested marine 
grade or anything like that and as I recall they were not overly expensive.  I 
mostly got alternator belts from NAPA and they worked fine too. In fact I still 
get belts from NA

Stus-List Starting a diesel

[Robert Gallagher]

>
>
> For a few days I was sure the three position toggle on the yanmar control
> panel was for the glow plugs on my new (to me) yanmar 2gm20f.


   I would flip that toggle switch for 30 seconds and she would fire right
up.

>

As I moved the boat further north from Annapolis to Mystic the spring
mornings got colder and I started to think I might need new glow
plugs..that's when I figured it out ..lol


OK...I gotta ask.
>
> I have a 1981 3QM30.  Purrs like a kitten.
>
> No glow plug.  Start up cold just fine.  Just a few more cranks.Before
> this engine  I thought all diesels had glow plugs.
>
> What gives?
>
>
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
>
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

[Bill Bina]

That may be the source of the incorrect stories about A4 being derived 
from a jeep engine. I almost bought an old  Coast Guard surplus surf 
rescue boat about 40 years ago. It had a 4 cylinder Gray Marine engine, 
but some of the castings had JEEP embossed on them. So, some WWII boats 
did have 4 cylinder marinized Jeep engines, but they were not the A4.


Bill Bina

On 5/17/2013 8:36 AM, Della Barba, Joe wrote:


They got used in a TON of WW II boats of various types, but they 
weren't A4s then. I think the 1940s version was called a "Utility 4".


*/Joe Della Barba/*

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*Hoyt, Mike

*Sent:* Friday, May 17, 2013 8:23 AM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

I once heard a story that the Atomic 4 was the power plant in the WW 
II landing craft.  Anyone know if this is true?




___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

[Della Barba, Joe]

They got used in a TON of WW II boats of various types, but they weren't A4s 
then. I think the 1940s version was called a "Utility 4".

Joe Della Barba

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 8:23 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

I once heard a story that the Atomic 4 was the power plant in the WW II landing 
craft.  Anyone know if this is true?


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della Barba, 
Joe
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 9:03 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts
The Atomic 4 is not a Jeep engine. It was always a marine engine and given the 
layout of the flywheel and transmission, could not possibly ever be used in a 
car, tractor, or any type of motor vehicle. Universal never used an outside 
source for the A4 and others in the series - they cast their own blocks 
specifically for marine use.
As for explosions, a *C&C 35 MK I* did actually explode and burn and mine came 
close to doing the same. C&C used some scrap copper pipe and a hardware store 
90 degree rubber fitting to get the fuel fill hose onto the tank with almost no 
clearance under the cockpit. These parts were never even rated for normal fuel, 
let alone ethanol crapgas. Mine started to come apart and when I dumped 5 
gallons of gas in the tank, about 2 made it to the tank and 3 went in the 
bilge. Good thing I ran the blower and investigated when it smelled like gas. I 
got a local shop to fabricate an aluminum 90 degree piece for me and all is 
well now. Despite me telling them no one would be able to see it, they made me 
a piece of welding art with the seams polished and friction bands scribed into 
the pipe and charged me $160 for it! Soif I ever take the fuel system 
apart again I can admire it :)

Anyway - points, condensers, plugs, wires, belts, and hoses are all "free" to 
use whatever, but the starter, distributor cap, alternator, and carb all have 
specific features for marine use. For one example, the 99% identical tractor 
version of the carb has a drain hole so that any gas overflow leaks right out 
of the carb into the bilge. The marine version has a scavenger tube. If anyone 
with a diesel tells me about safety, I will 99% of the time be able to point to 
their propane stove and about 50% of the time point to a can of gas for the 
dinghy shoved into some random totally unsafe spot LOL

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 7:26 AM
To: billb...@sbcglobal.net; 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

Bill

I agree with you about the hazards of gasoline, that was one reason I did not 
like having a sailboat with a gas engine but I can't remember hearing of any 
explosions involving an Atomic 4 engine in a sailboat and there were a lot of 
those engines used in sailboats that were of the vintage of my 1974 C&C.  I 
always used the bilge blower and took care to smell for gas in the engine space 
before starting. I believe for the Atomic 4 engine which I think started out as 
a jeep engine that AC Delco parts were actually the recommended replacement 
ignition parts.  I think some people have converted these older Atomic 4 
sailboat engines to electronic ignition systems and I think that is probably a 
worthwhile change for reliability and smooth operation. These engines have 
driven sailboats quite successfully for many years and many are still in 
service and working well, even those that have been raw water cooled with salt 
water, like many I know of around here, the one that is in the 27 which I owned 
included.

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina
Sent: May 17, 2013 6:55 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

Belts don't matter, but for gasoline engines on a boat, the difference in 
marine parts vs automotive parts can be the difference between life and death. 
It's not a reliability issue or how well the part performs. It's an EXPLOSION 
issue. Gasoline fumes are heavier than air. A car engine compartment is open on 
the bottom, and has TONS of air flow. The engine situation in a boat is 
completely different. It is closed on the bottom, and air flow is fairly 
minimal. That's why they make special ignition parts, alternators, starters, 
carbs, etc for use in boats. You know those scenes in movies where a boat 
explodes in a fireball and burns to the waterline in minutes? That is a 
realistic depiction. They really do that. I've seen it happen twice.

Bill Bina

Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

[dwight veinot]

I thought something I read long ago said it did start out as a jeep engine
but that was long ago and I could very well be mistaken, so I stand
corrected thanks to Joe, won't make that mistake again for at least another
10 years if memory serves well

 

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della
Barba, Joe
Sent: May 17, 2013 9:03 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

 

The Atomic 4 is not a Jeep engine. It was always a marine engine and given
the layout of the flywheel and transmission, could not possibly ever be used
in a car, tractor, or any type of motor vehicle. Universal never used an
outside source for the A4 and others in the series - they cast their own
blocks specifically for marine use.

As for explosions, a *C&C 35 MK I* did actually explode and burn and mine
came close to doing the same. C&C used some scrap copper pipe and a hardware
store 90 degree rubber fitting to get the fuel fill hose onto the tank with
almost no clearance under the cockpit. These parts were never even rated for
normal fuel, let alone ethanol crapgas. Mine started to come apart and when
I dumped 5 gallons of gas in the tank, about 2 made it to the tank and 3
went in the bilge. Good thing I ran the blower and investigated when it
smelled like gas. I got a local shop to fabricate an aluminum 90 degree
piece for me and all is well now. Despite me telling them no one would be
able to see it, they made me a piece of welding art with the seams polished
and friction bands scribed into the pipe and charged me $160 for it!
Soif I ever take the fuel system apart again I can admire it :-)

 

Anyway - points, condensers, plugs, wires, belts, and hoses are all "free"
to use whatever, but the starter, distributor cap, alternator, and carb all
have specific features for marine use. For one example, the 99% identical
tractor version of the carb has a drain hole so that any gas overflow leaks
right out of the carb into the bilge. The marine version has a scavenger
tube. If anyone with a diesel tells me about safety, I will 99% of the time
be able to point to their propane stove and about 50% of the time point to a
can of gas for the dinghy shoved into some random totally unsafe spot LOL

 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina

C&C 35 MK I

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight
veinot
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 7:26 AM
To: billb...@sbcglobal.net; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

 

Bill

 

I agree with you about the hazards of gasoline, that was one reason I did
not like having a sailboat with a gas engine but I can't remember hearing of
any explosions involving an Atomic 4 engine in a sailboat and there were a
lot of those engines used in sailboats that were of the vintage of my 1974
C&C.  I always used the bilge blower and took care to smell for gas in the
engine space before starting. I believe for the Atomic 4 engine which I
think started out as a jeep engine that AC Delco parts were actually the
recommended replacement ignition parts.  I think some people have converted
these older Atomic 4 sailboat engines to electronic ignition systems and I
think that is probably a worthwhile change for reliability and smooth
operation. These engines have driven sailboats quite successfully for many
years and many are still in service and working well, even those that have
been raw water cooled with salt water, like many I know of around here, the
one that is in the 27 which I owned included. 

 

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina
Sent: May 17, 2013 6:55 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

 

Belts don't matter, but for gasoline engines on a boat, the difference in
marine parts vs automotive parts can be the difference between life and
death. It's not a reliability issue or how well the part performs. It's an
EXPLOSION issue. Gasoline fumes are heavier than air. A car engine
compartment is open on the bottom, and has TONS of air flow. The engine
situation in a boat is completely different. It is closed on the bottom, and
air flow is fairly minimal. That's why they make special ignition parts,
alternators, starters, carbs, etc for use in boats. You know those scenes in
movies where a boat explodes in a fireball and burns to the waterline in
minutes? That is a realistic depiction. They really do that. I've seen it
happen twice. 

Bill Bina

On 5/17/2013 5:01 AM, dwight veinot wrote:

OK I am happy with that and the AC Delco parts worked very well in my ATOMIC
4 engine but I don't think there was anything about them that suggested
marine grade or anything like that and as I recall they were not overly
expensive.  I mostly got alternator belts from NAPA and the

Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

[Hoyt, Mike]

I once heard a story that the Atomic 4 was the power plant in the WW II
landing craft.  Anyone know if this is true?



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della
Barba, Joe
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 9:03 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts



The Atomic 4 is not a Jeep engine. It was always a marine engine and
given the layout of the flywheel and transmission, could not possibly
ever be used in a car, tractor, or any type of motor vehicle. Universal
never used an outside source for the A4 and others in the series - they
cast their own blocks specifically for marine use.

As for explosions, a *C&C 35 MK I* did actually explode and burn and
mine came close to doing the same. C&C used some scrap copper pipe and a
hardware store 90 degree rubber fitting to get the fuel fill hose onto
the tank with almost no clearance under the cockpit. These parts were
never even rated for normal fuel, let alone ethanol crapgas. Mine
started to come apart and when I dumped 5 gallons of gas in the tank,
about 2 made it to the tank and 3 went in the bilge. Good thing I ran
the blower and investigated when it smelled like gas. I got a local shop
to fabricate an aluminum 90 degree piece for me and all is well now.
Despite me telling them no one would be able to see it, they made me a
piece of welding art with the seams polished and friction bands scribed
into the pipe and charged me $160 for it! Soif I ever take the
fuel system apart again I can admire it J

 

Anyway - points, condensers, plugs, wires, belts, and hoses are all
"free" to use whatever, but the starter, distributor cap, alternator,
and carb all have specific features for marine use. For one example, the
99% identical tractor version of the carb has a drain hole so that any
gas overflow leaks right out of the carb into the bilge. The marine
version has a scavenger tube. If anyone with a diesel tells me about
safety, I will 99% of the time be able to point to their propane stove
and about 50% of the time point to a can of gas for the dinghy shoved
into some random totally unsafe spot LOL

 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina

C&C 35 MK I

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
dwight veinot
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 7:26 AM
To: billb...@sbcglobal.net; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

 

Bill

 

I agree with you about the hazards of gasoline, that was one reason I
did not like having a sailboat with a gas engine but I can't remember
hearing of any explosions involving an Atomic 4 engine in a sailboat and
there were a lot of those engines used in sailboats that were of the
vintage of my 1974 C&C.  I always used the bilge blower and took care to
smell for gas in the engine space before starting. I believe for the
Atomic 4 engine which I think started out as a jeep engine that AC Delco
parts were actually the recommended replacement ignition parts.  I think
some people have converted these older Atomic 4 sailboat engines to
electronic ignition systems and I think that is probably a worthwhile
change for reliability and smooth operation. These engines have driven
sailboats quite successfully for many years and many are still in
service and working well, even those that have been raw water cooled
with salt water, like many I know of around here, the one that is in the
27 which I owned included. 

 

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

 



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Bina
Sent: May 17, 2013 6:55 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

 

Belts don't matter, but for gasoline engines on a boat, the difference
in marine parts vs automotive parts can be the difference between life
and death. It's not a reliability issue or how well the part performs.
It's an EXPLOSION issue. Gasoline fumes are heavier than air. A car
engine compartment is open on the bottom, and has TONS of air flow. The
engine situation in a boat is completely different. It is closed on the
bottom, and air flow is fairly minimal. That's why they make special
ignition parts, alternators, starters, carbs, etc for use in boats. You
know those scenes in movies where a boat explodes in a fireball and
burns to the waterline in minutes? That is a realistic depiction. They
really do that. I've seen it happen twice. 

Bill Bina

On 5/17/2013 5:01 AM, dwight veinot wrote:

OK I am happy with that and the AC Delco parts worked very well
in my ATOMIC 4 engine but I don't think there was anything about them
that suggested marine grade or anything like that and as I recall they
were not overly expensive.  I mostly got alternator belts from NAPA and
they worked fine too. In fact I still get belts from NAPA for my
Universal M4-30 diesel and gold level oil filters too but I have also
used Wix oil 

Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

[Della Barba, Joe]

Quite so. I just got a high output Delco alternator and it is an auto unit 
underneath with screens and fittings for the wiring to pass through.

Joe Della Barba

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Knowles Rich
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 8:11 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

The major difference between starters and alternators intended for marine use 
is they have fine screening over all the air venting gaps to prevent sparking 
igniting fumes.
Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On 2013-05-17, at 9:02, "Della Barba, Joe" 
mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>> wrote:
The Atomic 4 is not a Jeep engine. It was always a marine engine and given the 
layout of the flywheel and transmission, could not possibly ever be used in a 
car, tractor, or any type of motor vehicle. Universal never used an outside 
source for the A4 and others in the series – they cast their own blocks 
specifically for marine use.
As for explosions, a *C&C 35 MK I* did actually explode and burn and mine came 
close to doing the same. C&C used some scrap copper pipe and a hardware store 
90 degree rubber fitting to get the fuel fill hose onto the tank with almost no 
clearance under the cockpit. These parts were never even rated for normal fuel, 
let alone ethanol crapgas. Mine started to come apart and when I dumped 5 
gallons of gas in the tank, about 2 made it to the tank and 3 went in the 
bilge. Good thing I ran the blower and investigated when it smelled like gas. I 
got a local shop to fabricate an aluminum 90 degree piece for me and all is 
well now. Despite me telling them no one would be able to see it, they made me 
a piece of welding art with the seams polished and friction bands scribed into 
the pipe and charged me $160 for it! So……..if I ever take the fuel system apart 
again I can admire it ☺

Anyway – points, condensers, plugs, wires, belts, and hoses are all “free” to 
use whatever, but the starter, distributor cap, alternator, and carb all have 
specific features for marine use. For one example, the 99% identical tractor 
version of the carb has a drain hole so that any gas overflow leaks right out 
of the carb into the bilge. The marine version has a scavenger tube. If anyone 
with a diesel tells me about safety, I will 99% of the time be able to point to 
their propane stove and about 50% of the time point to a can of gas for the 
dinghy shoved into some random totally unsafe spot LOL

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 7:26 AM
To: billb...@sbcglobal.net; 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

Bill

I agree with you about the hazards of gasoline, that was one reason I did not 
like having a sailboat with a gas engine but I can’t remember hearing of any 
explosions involving an Atomic 4 engine in a sailboat and there were a lot of 
those engines used in sailboats that were of the vintage of my 1974 C&C.  I 
always used the bilge blower and took care to smell for gas in the engine space 
before starting. I believe for the Atomic 4 engine which I think started out as 
a jeep engine that AC Delco parts were actually the recommended replacement 
ignition parts.  I think some people have converted these older Atomic 4 
sailboat engines to electronic ignition systems and I think that is probably a 
worthwhile change for reliability and smooth operation. These engines have 
driven sailboats quite successfully for many years and many are still in 
service and working well, even those that have been raw water cooled with salt 
water, like many I know of around here, the one that is in the 27 which I owned 
included.

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina
Sent: May 17, 2013 6:55 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

Belts don't matter, but for gasoline engines on a boat, the difference in 
marine parts vs automotive parts can be the difference between life and death. 
It's not a reliability issue or how well the part performs. It's an EXPLOSION 
issue. Gasoline fumes are heavier than air. A car engine compartment is open on 
the bottom, and has TONS of air flow. The engine situation in a boat is 
completely different. It is closed on the bottom, and air flow is fairly 
minimal. That's why they make special ignition parts, alternators, starters, 
carbs, etc for use in boats. You know those scenes in movies where a boat 
explodes in a fireball and burns to the waterline in minutes? That is a 
realistic depiction. They really do that. I've seen it happen twice.

Bill Bina

On 5/17/2013 5:01 AM, dwight veinot wrote:
OK I am happy with that and the AC D

Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

[Knowles Rich]

The major difference between starters and alternators intended for marine use 
is they have fine screening over all the air venting gaps to prevent sparking 
igniting fumes. 

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On 2013-05-17, at 9:02, "Della Barba, Joe"  wrote:

The Atomic 4 is not a Jeep engine. It was always a marine engine and given the 
layout of the flywheel and transmission, could not possibly ever be used in a 
car, tractor, or any type of motor vehicle. Universal never used an outside 
source for the A4 and others in the series – they cast their own blocks 
specifically for marine use.
As for explosions, a *C&C 35 MK I* did actually explode and burn and mine came 
close to doing the same. C&C used some scrap copper pipe and a hardware store 
90 degree rubber fitting to get the fuel fill hose onto the tank with almost no 
clearance under the cockpit. These parts were never even rated for normal fuel, 
let alone ethanol crapgas. Mine started to come apart and when I dumped 5 
gallons of gas in the tank, about 2 made it to the tank and 3 went in the 
bilge. Good thing I ran the blower and investigated when it smelled like gas. I 
got a local shop to fabricate an aluminum 90 degree piece for me and all is 
well now. Despite me telling them no one would be able to see it, they made me 
a piece of welding art with the seams polished and friction bands scribed into 
the pipe and charged me $160 for it! So……..if I ever take the fuel system apart 
again I can admire it J
 
Anyway – points, condensers, plugs, wires, belts, and hoses are all “free” to 
use whatever, but the starter, distributor cap, alternator, and carb all have 
specific features for marine use. For one example, the 99% identical tractor 
version of the carb has a drain hole so that any gas overflow leaks right out 
of the carb into the bilge. The marine version has a scavenger tube. If anyone 
with a diesel tells me about safety, I will 99% of the time be able to point to 
their propane stove and about 50% of the time point to a can of gas for the 
dinghy shoved into some random totally unsafe spot LOL
 
Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 7:26 AM
To: billb...@sbcglobal.net; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts
 
Bill
 
I agree with you about the hazards of gasoline, that was one reason I did not 
like having a sailboat with a gas engine but I can’t remember hearing of any 
explosions involving an Atomic 4 engine in a sailboat and there were a lot of 
those engines used in sailboats that were of the vintage of my 1974 C&C.  I 
always used the bilge blower and took care to smell for gas in the engine space 
before starting. I believe for the Atomic 4 engine which I think started out as 
a jeep engine that AC Delco parts were actually the recommended replacement 
ignition parts.  I think some people have converted these older Atomic 4 
sailboat engines to electronic ignition systems and I think that is probably a 
worthwhile change for reliability and smooth operation. These engines have 
driven sailboats quite successfully for many years and many are still in 
service and working well, even those that have been raw water cooled with salt 
water, like many I know of around here, the one that is in the 27 which I owned 
included.
 
Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina
Sent: May 17, 2013 6:55 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts
 
Belts don't matter, but for gasoline engines on a boat, the difference in 
marine parts vs automotive parts can be the difference between life and death. 
It's not a reliability issue or how well the part performs. It's an EXPLOSION 
issue. Gasoline fumes are heavier than air. A car engine compartment is open on 
the bottom, and has TONS of air flow. The engine situation in a boat is 
completely different. It is closed on the bottom, and air flow is fairly 
minimal. That's why they make special ignition parts, alternators, starters, 
carbs, etc for use in boats. You know those scenes in movies where a boat 
explodes in a fireball and burns to the waterline in minutes? That is a 
realistic depiction. They really do that. I've seen it happen twice. 

Bill Bina

On 5/17/2013 5:01 AM, dwight veinot wrote:
OK I am happy with that and the AC Delco parts worked very well in my ATOMIC 4 
engine but I don’t think there was anything about them that suggested marine 
grade or anything like that and as I recall they were not overly expensive.  I 
mostly got alternator belts from NAPA and they worked fine too. In fact I still 
get belts from NAPA for my Universal M4-30 diesel and gold level oil filters 
too but I have also used Wix oil filters.
 
Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
 
 
 
No virus found in this m

Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

[Della Barba, Joe]

The Atomic 4 is not a Jeep engine. It was always a marine engine and given the 
layout of the flywheel and transmission, could not possibly ever be used in a 
car, tractor, or any type of motor vehicle. Universal never used an outside 
source for the A4 and others in the series - they cast their own blocks 
specifically for marine use.
As for explosions, a *C&C 35 MK I* did actually explode and burn and mine came 
close to doing the same. C&C used some scrap copper pipe and a hardware store 
90 degree rubber fitting to get the fuel fill hose onto the tank with almost no 
clearance under the cockpit. These parts were never even rated for normal fuel, 
let alone ethanol crapgas. Mine started to come apart and when I dumped 5 
gallons of gas in the tank, about 2 made it to the tank and 3 went in the 
bilge. Good thing I ran the blower and investigated when it smelled like gas. I 
got a local shop to fabricate an aluminum 90 degree piece for me and all is 
well now. Despite me telling them no one would be able to see it, they made me 
a piece of welding art with the seams polished and friction bands scribed into 
the pipe and charged me $160 for it! Soif I ever take the fuel system 
apart again I can admire it :)

Anyway - points, condensers, plugs, wires, belts, and hoses are all "free" to 
use whatever, but the starter, distributor cap, alternator, and carb all have 
specific features for marine use. For one example, the 99% identical tractor 
version of the carb has a drain hole so that any gas overflow leaks right out 
of the carb into the bilge. The marine version has a scavenger tube. If anyone 
with a diesel tells me about safety, I will 99% of the time be able to point to 
their propane stove and about 50% of the time point to a can of gas for the 
dinghy shoved into some random totally unsafe spot LOL

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 7:26 AM
To: billb...@sbcglobal.net; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

Bill

I agree with you about the hazards of gasoline, that was one reason I did not 
like having a sailboat with a gas engine but I can't remember hearing of any 
explosions involving an Atomic 4 engine in a sailboat and there were a lot of 
those engines used in sailboats that were of the vintage of my 1974 C&C.  I 
always used the bilge blower and took care to smell for gas in the engine space 
before starting. I believe for the Atomic 4 engine which I think started out as 
a jeep engine that AC Delco parts were actually the recommended replacement 
ignition parts.  I think some people have converted these older Atomic 4 
sailboat engines to electronic ignition systems and I think that is probably a 
worthwhile change for reliability and smooth operation. These engines have 
driven sailboats quite successfully for many years and many are still in 
service and working well, even those that have been raw water cooled with salt 
water, like many I know of around here, the one that is in the 27 which I owned 
included.

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina
Sent: May 17, 2013 6:55 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

Belts don't matter, but for gasoline engines on a boat, the difference in 
marine parts vs automotive parts can be the difference between life and death. 
It's not a reliability issue or how well the part performs. It's an EXPLOSION 
issue. Gasoline fumes are heavier than air. A car engine compartment is open on 
the bottom, and has TONS of air flow. The engine situation in a boat is 
completely different. It is closed on the bottom, and air flow is fairly 
minimal. That's why they make special ignition parts, alternators, starters, 
carbs, etc for use in boats. You know those scenes in movies where a boat 
explodes in a fireball and burns to the waterline in minutes? That is a 
realistic depiction. They really do that. I've seen it happen twice.

Bill Bina

On 5/17/2013 5:01 AM, dwight veinot wrote:
OK I am happy with that and the AC Delco parts worked very well in my ATOMIC 4 
engine but I don't think there was anything about them that suggested marine 
grade or anything like that and as I recall they were not overly expensive.  I 
mostly got alternator belts from NAPA and they worked fine too. In fact I still 
get belts from NAPA for my Universal M4-30 diesel and gold level oil filters 
too but I have also used Wix oil filters.

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS




No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3162/5828 - Release Date: 05/16/13

Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

[dwight veinot]

Yes, I have dealt with Moyer Marine and I agree they are first class and
anyone who is still running an Atomic 4 engine would do themselves a favour
by bookmarking Don's site as a first reference source for anything Atomic 4
related.  I guess he was able to start a business focusing on the atomic 4
because so many of them have survived for so long and with a little help
every now and then they will likely last a long time yet.

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
 

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
robertlma...@gmail.com
Sent: May 17, 2013 8:34 AM
To: Michael Cotton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

Don't forget Don Moyer and Moyer Marine as a source A4 parts and components.
Their website is a valuable asset for all Atomic Four owners and Don's
personal contribution to providing valuable information for the care and
maintenance of this amazing little engine should not go unrewarded. Anyone
who has met or dealt with Don I'm sure would agree.

Rob 
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Michael Cotton 
Sender: "CnC-List" 
Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 22:31:59 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Reply-To: Michael Cotton , cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

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Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

[robertlmazza]

Don't forget Don Moyer and Moyer Marine as a source A4 parts and components. 
Their website is a valuable asset for all Atomic Four owners and Don's personal 
contribution to providing valuable information for the care and maintenance of 
this amazing little engine should not go unrewarded. Anyone who has met or 
dealt with Don I'm sure would agree.

Rob 
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Michael Cotton 
Sender: "CnC-List" 
Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 22:31:59 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Reply-To: Michael Cotton , cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

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Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

[dwight veinot]

Bill

 

I agree with you about the hazards of gasoline, that was one reason I did
not like having a sailboat with a gas engine but I can't remember hearing of
any explosions involving an Atomic 4 engine in a sailboat and there were a
lot of those engines used in sailboats that were of the vintage of my 1974
C&C.  I always used the bilge blower and took care to smell for gas in the
engine space before starting. I believe for the Atomic 4 engine which I
think started out as a jeep engine that AC Delco parts were actually the
recommended replacement ignition parts.  I think some people have converted
these older Atomic 4 sailboat engines to electronic ignition systems and I
think that is probably a worthwhile change for reliability and smooth
operation. These engines have driven sailboats quite successfully for many
years and many are still in service and working well, even those that have
been raw water cooled with salt water, like many I know of around here, the
one that is in the 27 which I owned included. 

 

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina
Sent: May 17, 2013 6:55 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

 

Belts don't matter, but for gasoline engines on a boat, the difference in
marine parts vs automotive parts can be the difference between life and
death. It's not a reliability issue or how well the part performs. It's an
EXPLOSION issue. Gasoline fumes are heavier than air. A car engine
compartment is open on the bottom, and has TONS of air flow. The engine
situation in a boat is completely different. It is closed on the bottom, and
air flow is fairly minimal. That's why they make special ignition parts,
alternators, starters, carbs, etc for use in boats. You know those scenes in
movies where a boat explodes in a fireball and burns to the waterline in
minutes? That is a realistic depiction. They really do that. I've seen it
happen twice. 

Bill Bina

On 5/17/2013 5:01 AM, dwight veinot wrote:

OK I am happy with that and the AC Delco parts worked very well in my ATOMIC
4 engine but I don't think there was anything about them that suggested
marine grade or anything like that and as I recall they were not overly
expensive.  I mostly got alternator belts from NAPA and they worked fine
too. In fact I still get belts from NAPA for my Universal M4-30 diesel and
gold level oil filters too but I have also used Wix oil filters.

 

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

  

 

 

  _  

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3162/5828 - Release Date: 05/16/13

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Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

[Bill Bina]

  
  
Belts don't matter, but for gasoline
  engines on a boat, the difference in marine parts vs automotive
  parts can be the difference between life and death. It's not a
  reliability issue or how well the part performs. It's an EXPLOSION
  issue. Gasoline fumes are heavier than air. A car engine
  compartment is open on the bottom, and has TONS of air flow. The
  engine situation in a boat is completely different. It is closed
  on the bottom, and air flow is fairly minimal. That's why they
  make special ignition parts, alternators, starters, carbs, etc for
  use in boats. You know those scenes in movies where a boat
  explodes in a fireball and burns to the waterline in minutes? That
  is a realistic depiction. They really do that. I've seen it happen
  twice. 
  
  Bill Bina
  
  On 5/17/2013 5:01 AM, dwight veinot wrote:


  
  
  

  

  



  OK I am
happy with that and the AC Delco
parts worked very well in my ATOMIC 4 engine but
I don’t think there was
anything about them that suggested marine grade
or anything like that and as I
recall they were not overly expensive.  I mostly
got alternator belts from NAPA and
they worked fine
too. In fact I still get belts from NAPA
for my Universal M4-30 diesel and gold level oil
filters too but I have also
used Wix oil filters.
   
  
Dwight
  Veinot
C&C
  35 MKII, Alianna
Head of
  St. Margaret's Bay, NS
  
   
  
  

  

  


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Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

[dwight veinot]

OK I am happy with that and the AC Delco parts worked very well in my ATOMIC
4 engine but I don't think there was anything about them that suggested
marine grade or anything like that and as I recall they were not overly
expensive.  I mostly got alternator belts from NAPA and they worked fine
too. In fact I still get belts from NAPA for my Universal M4-30 diesel and
gold level oil filters too but I have also used Wix oil filters.

 

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Cotton
Sent: May 17, 2013 2:32 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

 

AC Delco is GM's OE supplier. NAPA is an aftermarket supplier. They are not
equal. AC Delco is a superior product. I have no interest in either company.
I do have 40 experience in the automotive service industry.
Michael Cotton
Hunter 23, S/V High Cotton
Denver Co

 

 


  _  


From: dwight veinot 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

 

If it matters to you Damien I always used NAPA or AC Delco parts on the
Atomic 4 in my 27 when I owned that boat, but I changed things like plugs,
condenser, points, rotor button and distributor cap out at the start of
every season and did a proper dwell angle set on the points and timing on
the distributor as a matter of getting ready; the parts don't cost much and
changing them out every year is not very expensive compared to pains
associated with poor operation.  I also carried a spare ignition coil and
alternator belt on board.  Some changed out parts stayed on as backups, like
plugs for example which should go more than 1 season easy.  The carb is
fairly simple and I don't think it needs much except to be kept clean.don't
even remember that I had a fuel filter on that system.

 

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

 


  _  


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Damien
Morrissey
Sent: May 16, 2013 2:00 PM
To: CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts

 

Thanks Bill Bina for the explanation - excerpt below ..

I knew there had to be a better reason that just gouging us ""rich" boating
types 

 

As for the parts I needed for the Atomic 4 engine, the parts list I used
came from Stu's list on the C&C Photoalbum and I thought they were the right
ones.  I thought the list even said that Napa was a great source for the
parts.

 

I guess I'll have to take at look at what I did last summer and determine if
it's safe and up to snuff 

 

Damien

"Melissa Anne" - for now, I may change her name

33'

Bay of Islands Yacht Club 

Corner Brook , NL

 

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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 09:08:18 -0400
From: Bill Bina <  billb...@sbcglobal.net>
To:   cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List A4 Blues
Message-ID: < 
5194da42.5000...@sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

A big note of caution is needed when using automotive parts in a marine
application:

"One of the most common questions my marina customers ask me on a daily
basis is what is the difference between marine and auto parts. Many
people will ask for a part and when given a price will tell me that they
can get the same part at the local auto parts store for half the
price...


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