Stus-List C&C History

[TOM VINCENT]

It looks like the new C&C is not the old C&C, it is now more of a racing 
machine. I can hardly imagine taking my family out for a day or a weekend on 
the new 30. I joined the C&C boat family in 1975 when I purchased a new 30, it 
was fast and still provided cruising for the family. I wish them success and 
look forward to some of their new designs, who knows what they will produce. 
Frolic II, 36', that I currently sail is becoming a little too much boat and I 
am considering going smaller to an Alerion 28 or the new Tartan Fan Tail, any 
thoughts?
 
Tom
Frolic II 
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Re: Stus-List Current C&C History

[Dennis C.]

The way I look at it is this: While the label may say Nautica, Polo, Ralph 
Lauren, etc., most garments are made by VF Industries, Kellwood or a few other 
manufacturers.  Essentially, many of the clothes we wear today are distributed 
by companies that are primarily marketers.

Looks like much the same in the boating industry where these guys build for J 
Boats, etc.  The Summit website says the King 40 is going to be built by 
Edgewater Yachts in Florida.  Maybe the Redline will also be built there.  
"Order up! One Redline".  Oops, was supposed to be a King 40?

Remember years ago an Oldsmobile was an Oldsmobile.  Now a Lexus is just a 
Toyota with a trim package.

WhateverDesign it, build it somewhere, slap a logo on it, market it, hope 
it sells.

Hey, I own a Brand X, designed by Jose in Brazil, assembled in Guatamala with 
parts from Hungary, sold by Jules in Virginia.  It's a global market place.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA




On Wednesday, November 6, 2013 8:10 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:
 
Both the 30 and the 41appear to me to be the work of people obsessed with 
winning races. From my narrow point of view, that reduces the potential 
interested audience to a somewhat limited group of people in their 30's and 
40's who happen to have enough cash and racing buddies to buy and crew a large 
dinghy for a few years, but will likely not have long term love affairs with 
them. The boats may well excel as racers but the real test is whether they will 
endure as boats that families and cruisers will also enjoy. I don't see much 
comfort in the cockpit design and I don't see places for instruments and other 
cruising bric-a-brac. I appreciate they are preliminary designs subject to 
inevitable change, but, while they may be fast, they don't look very 
comfortable to me. Yet another 41 ft. boat with berths that only a gymnast can 
easily access. I think they should have a look at what Beneteau and others have 
on the market today and take note of what they are
 doing right.
>
>As for the logo, I see it's fractured. Fits.
>
>Rich Knowles
>INDIGO LF38
>Halifax, NS.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Current C&C History

[Jerome Tauber]

The Redline 41 is essentially a newer King 40 from Summit Yachts and was 
probably designed as a Summit prior to the purchase of the C&C name.  If you 
look at the Summit website you will see it is the same group that now owns the 
C&C brand.  http://www.summit-yachts.com/.The Redline 41drawing still has 
the Summit cove stripe which I assume will be changed to a C&C cove stripe for 
production.   All in all I think it will probably be a positive development for 
the C&C brand.   US Watercraft was building the J22, J80 and J105.  I wonder if 
they will continue to do so.   Jerry C&C 27-5.
 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Stu 
To: C&C Email List 
Sent: Wed, Nov 6, 2013 4:54 pm
Subject: Stus-List Current C&C History




Here is a good read – it’s on the new C&C Website:
 
http://c-cyachts.com/new/about-cc/history/
 
Stu


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Re: Stus-List Current C&C History

[Rich Knowles]

Both the 30 and the 41appear to me to be the work of people obsessed with 
winning races. From my narrow point of view, that reduces the potential 
interested audience to a somewhat limited group of people in their 30's and 
40's who happen to have enough cash and racing buddies to buy and crew a large 
dinghy for a few years, but will likely not have long term love affairs with 
them. The boats may well excel as racers but the real test is whether they will 
endure as boats that families and cruisers will also enjoy. I don't see much 
comfort in the cockpit design and I don't see places for instruments and other 
cruising bric-a-brac. I appreciate they are preliminary designs subject to 
inevitable change, but, while they may be fast, they don't look very 
comfortable to me. Yet another 41 ft. boat with berths that only a gymnast can 
easily access. I think they should have a look at what Beneteau and others have 
on the market today and take note of what they are doing right.

As for the logo, I see it's fractured. Fits.

Rich Knowles
INDIGO LF38
Halifax, NS.






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Re: Stus-List Current C&C History

[Joe Della Barba]

WTF is up with that logo?

Also the 30 looks like any generic sport boat and the Redline 41 - with a
draft of over 8 feet - won't sell boat 1 to anyone with any cruising ideas
at all on the East Coast south of New England. That boat couldn't get within
half a mile of my slip.

 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina

j...@dellabarba.com

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jim Watts
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 7:58 PM
To: 1 CnC List
Subject: Re: Stus-List Current C&C History

 

The logo is a mistake, having Barry Carroll (Barely Careful as he is known)
involved is a big mistake. His reputation for just-good-enough work precedes
him. I can only assume that logo rights belong to someone else, because
changing it is just dumb. 

 

On 6 November 2013 16:52, D Harben mailto:sailadventu...@rogers.com> > wrote:

m

 

I shared this with a friend who drew the keels and rudder designs of the day
... "they missed my name but thats ok...I know that I was there"

Don

 

Don Harben  

 

Life   C&C 29-1   www.ncyc.ca  

   North Channel Yacht Club

 

Objective in Lifenot to arrive at death's door softly and gracefully, in
a well preserved bodybut to splash in broadside, totally used and spent,
screaming, "Wow. What a sail!"

 


On Nov 6, 2013, at 7:49 PM, sam.c.sal...@gmail.com
  wrote:

 

I'm reading all this on my BlackBerry Z10.

I'm getting real depressed! 

Sam :-)

 


From: Bill Bina

Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 5:38 PM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  

Reply To: billb...@sbcglobal.net  

Subject: Re: Stus-List Current C&C History

 

The new logo is a big mistake.

Bill Bina

On 11/6/2013 7:12 PM, Leslie Paal wrote:
> i read the story, felt very hopeful. Then looked the 30' and I thought,
that is NOT the spirit of C&C. I think a capable racer/cruiser would have
better market than an other race only design. Time will tell; I wish them
the best.
>
> Leslie
> Phoenix, C&C32
> 
> On Wed, 11/6/13, j...@svpaws.net   mailto:j...@svpaws.net> > wrote:
>


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-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

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Re: Stus-List Current C&C History

[Jim Watts]

The logo is a mistake, having Barry Carroll (Barely Careful as he is known)
involved is a big mistake. His reputation for just-good-enough work
precedes him. I can only assume that logo rights belong to someone else,
because changing it is just dumb.


On 6 November 2013 16:52, D Harben  wrote:

> m
>
> I shared this with a friend who drew the keels and rudder designs of the
> day ... "they missed my name but thats ok...I know that I was there"
>
> Don
>
> Don Harben
>
> Life   C&C 29-1   www.ncyc.ca
>North Channel Yacht Club
>
> Objective in Lifenot to arrive at death's door softly and gracefully,
> in a well preserved bodybut to splash in broadside, totally used and
> spent, screaming, "Wow. What a sail!"
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2013, at 7:49 PM, sam.c.sal...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> I'm reading all this on my BlackBerry Z10.
> I'm getting real depressed!
> Sam :-)
>
>   *From: *Bill Bina
> *Sent: *Wednesday, November 6, 2013 5:38 PM
> *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Reply To: *billb...@sbcglobal.net
> *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Current C&C History
>
> The new logo is a big mistake.
>
> Bill Bina
>
> On 11/6/2013 7:12 PM, Leslie Paal wrote:
> > i read the story, felt very hopeful. Then looked the 30' and I thought,
> that is NOT the spirit of C&C. I think a capable racer/cruiser would have
> better market than an other race only design. Time will tell; I wish them
> the best.
> >
> > Leslie
> > Phoenix, C&C32
> > 
> > On Wed, 11/6/13, j...@svpaws.net  wrote:
> >
>
>
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> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
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>


-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
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Re: Stus-List Current C&C History

[Hoyt, Mike]

Ok.  Not my Z10 but my Playbook.  Both about as mainstream as odd boats can be.

My optimistic take on this is that the new brand starts with a od daysailor 
that stays for many years but is not the typical c&c boat.  Am hoping more 
racer cruisers and particularly some under 40 ft.  These two designs look like 
they could be soto 30 and soto 40

On the bright side the original c&c's started as amazing racers and then 
expanded from there.

My pessimistic view is that they drop the racer/cruiser and just make another 
30 ft farr 30 / henderson 30 etc style race boat

Mike

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List on behalf of sam.c.sal...@gmail.com
Sent: Wed 06/11/2013 20:49
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Current C&C History
 

I'm reading all this on my BlackBerry Z10.
I'm getting real depressed! 
Sam :-)

From: Bill Bina
Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 5:38 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Reply To: billb...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: Stus-List Current C&C History


The new logo is a big mistake.

Bill Bina

On 11/6/2013 7:12 PM, Leslie Paal wrote:
> i read the story, felt very hopeful. Then looked the 30' and I thought, that 
> is NOT the spirit of C&C. I think a capable racer/cruiser would have better 
> market than an other race only design. Time will tell; I wish them the best.
>
> Leslie
> Phoenix, C&C32
> 
> On Wed, 11/6/13, j...@svpaws.net  wrote:
>


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Re: Stus-List Current C&C History

[D Harben]

m

I shared this with a friend who drew the keels and rudder designs of the day 
... "they missed my name but thats ok...I know that I was there"

Don

Don Harben  

Life   C&C 29-1   www.ncyc.ca
   North Channel Yacht Club

Objective in Lifenot to arrive at death's door softly and gracefully, in a 
well preserved bodybut to splash in broadside, totally used and spent, 
screaming, "Wow. What a sail!"


> On Nov 6, 2013, at 7:49 PM, sam.c.sal...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm reading all this on my BlackBerry Z10.
> I'm getting real depressed! 
> Sam :-)
> 
> From: Bill Bina
> Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 5:38 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Reply To: billb...@sbcglobal.net
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Current C&C History
> 
> The new logo is a big mistake.
> 
> Bill Bina
> 
> On 11/6/2013 7:12 PM, Leslie Paal wrote:
> > i read the story, felt very hopeful. Then looked the 30' and I thought, 
> > that is NOT the spirit of C&C. I think a capable racer/cruiser would have 
> > better market than an other race only design. Time will tell; I wish them 
> > the best.
> >
> > Leslie
> > Phoenix, C&C32
> > 
> > On Wed, 11/6/13, j...@svpaws.net  wrote:
> >
> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List Current C&C History

[sam . c . salter]

 I'm reading all this on my BlackBerry Z10.I'm getting real depressed! Sam :-)  From: Bill BinaSent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 5:38 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: billb...@sbcglobal.netSubject: Re: Stus-List Current C&C HistoryThe new logo is a big mistake.Bill BinaOn 11/6/2013 7:12 PM, Leslie Paal wrote:> i read the story, felt very hopeful.  Then looked the 30' and I thought, that is NOT the spirit of C&C.  I think a capable racer/cruiser would have better market than an other race only design.  Time will tell; I wish them the best.>> Leslie> Phoenix, C&C32> > On Wed, 11/6/13, j...@svpaws.net  wrote:>___This List is provided by the C&C Photo Albumhttp://www.cncphotoalbum.comCnC-List@cnc-list.com

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Re: Stus-List Current C&C History

[Bill Bina]

The new logo is a big mistake.

Bill Bina

On 11/6/2013 7:12 PM, Leslie Paal wrote:

i read the story, felt very hopeful.  Then looked the 30' and I thought, that is 
NOT the spirit of C&C.  I think a capable racer/cruiser would have better 
market than an other race only design.  Time will tell; I wish them the best.

Leslie
Phoenix, C&C32

On Wed, 11/6/13, j...@svpaws.net  wrote:




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Re: Stus-List Current C&C History

[Leslie Paal]

i read the story, felt very hopeful.  Then looked the 30' and I thought, that 
is NOT the spirit of C&C.  I think a capable racer/cruiser would have better 
market than an other race only design.  Time will tell; I wish them the best.

Leslie
Phoenix, C&C32

On Wed, 11/6/13, j...@svpaws.net  wrote:

 Subject: Re: Stus-List Current C&C History
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
 Date: Wednesday, November 6, 2013, 3:27 PM
 
 I really hope
 I'm wrong, but I fear they are on the wrong path.
  IMHO, the "magic" of C&C was a true dual
 purpose well built boat.  I don't see that in
 either of the current designs.  There, now they'll
 go on to sell thousands of boats!
 John
 
 Sent from my iPad
 On Nov 6, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Monty Schumpert 
 wrote:
 
 Great article,
 Stu! Thanks,
 Monty
 SchumpertScandiaC&C
 34+Annapolis, MD
 Sent from my iPad
 On Nov 6, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Stu" 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 Here is a good read – it’s on the new C&C
 Website:
  
 http://c-cyachts.com/new/about-cc/history/
  
 Stu
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 Album
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 CnC-List@cnc-list.com
 
 -Inline Attachment Follows-
 
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 CnC-List@cnc-list.com
 

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Re: Stus-List Current C&C History

[j...@svpaws.net]

I really hope I'm wrong, but I fear they are on the wrong path.  IMHO, the 
"magic" of C&C was a true dual purpose well built boat.  I don't see that in 
either of the current designs.  There, now they'll go on to sell thousands of 
boats!

John


Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 6, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Monty Schumpert  wrote:
> 
> Great article, Stu! 
> Thanks,
> 
> Monty Schumpert
> Scandia
> C&C 34+
> Annapolis, MD
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Nov 6, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Stu"  wrote:
>> 
>> Here is a good read – it’s on the new C&C Website:
>>  
>> http://c-cyachts.com/new/about-cc/history/
>>  
>> Stu
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Re: Stus-List Low Bridge

[Brent Driedger]

We have a couple of these bridges here in Winnipeg. They are struck on occasion 
too. Like the one in the video they also have amber lights which come on to 
alert the driver of the over height vehicle. They are on in the video and the 
ignorant drivers don't see them.  Very entertaining to watch.  

Brent
C&C 27-5
Lake Winnipeg. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 6, 2013, at 4:44 PM, "Jake Brodersen"  wrote:
> 
> In most states anything over 13’6” is overheight and requires a permit to 
> move on a public road.  I got permits every time I moved my Hunter.  It was 
> overwidth and overheight.
>  
> Jake
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 2:21 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Low Bridge
>  
> Most people don't know the height of their cars or trucks.  
> I think semi's are 13' to 13' 6".  Saw several Ryder trucks, rented by people 
> who just don't consider clearance.   Oops.
> 
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Atlantic City, NJ
> From: "Alan Bergen" 
> To: "C&C Photoalbum email list" 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 1:25:41 PM
> Subject: Stus-List Low Bridge
> 
> I don't believe the bridge has 11' 8" clearance as indicated by the sign.  
> That's more than the height of most ceilings in a home.  Don't you think that 
> most of those vehicles would have stopped if they were higher than 11' 8"? I 
> wonder where that's located.
>  
> Alan Bergen
> C&C 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
>  
> 
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Re: Stus-List Low Bridge

[Jake Brodersen]

In most states anything over 13’6” is overheight and requires a permit to move 
on a public road.  I got permits every time I moved my Hunter.  It was 
overwidth and overheight.

 

Jake

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 2:21 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Low Bridge

 

Most people don't know the height of their cars or trucks.  
I think semi's are 13' to 13' 6".  Saw several Ryder trucks, rented by people 
who just don't consider clearance.   Oops.

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ

  _  

From: "Alan Bergen" 
To: "C&C Photoalbum email list" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 1:25:41 PM
Subject: Stus-List Low Bridge

I don't believe the bridge has 11' 8" clearance as indicated by the sign.  
That's more than the height of most ceilings in a home.  Don't you think that 
most of those vehicles would have stopped if they were higher than 11' 8"? I 
wonder where that's located.

 

Alan Bergen
C&C 35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR

 


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Re: Stus-List Current C&C History

[Monty Schumpert]

Great article, Stu! 
Thanks,

Monty Schumpert
Scandia
C&C 34+
Annapolis, MD

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 6, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Stu"  wrote:
> 
> Here is a good read – it’s on the new C&C Website:
>  
> http://c-cyachts.com/new/about-cc/history/
>  
> Stu
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Stus-List Current C&C History

[Stu]

Here is a good read – it’s on the new C&C Website:

http://c-cyachts.com/new/about-cc/history/

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Re: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30

[Hoyt, Mike]

Michael

Lunenburg yacht club here in Nova scotia has a system in place for their club 
racing. It is described on their Web page I believe.

Basically they adjust handicaps throughout the season based on results. I 
believe they use a formula

Re the other. All phrf base handicaps are assumed to be for boats in optimal 
racing condition. In Nova Scotia we have added a recreational adjustment of +6 
that has had mixed results.

Mike


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List on behalf of Michael Brown
Sent: Wed 11/6/2013 3:29 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30
 
Hi Mike,

  those are pretty accurate comments, I would not take them as a rant.

  In the CS30 fleet I see a mix of "traditional" and "upgraded" boats. I take
the traditional boats as having the original rigging, dacron sails and standard
double braid lines. The upgraded boats are sporting new technology sails,
such as tape drive or string, new deck layouts, spectra type lines and things
like carbon fiber spin poles. My comment, poorly explained, was that the
traditional boats even in good conditions will find a 147 NFS rating
"aggressive". Maybe not the best word for it. I was trying to in a friendly
way to caution a new owner that work ( upgrades ) may be required to
be competitive in a CS30 fleet.

  The CS30s I race against, Synchronicity - S'fida - Uncorked, in things like
the LOSHRS look like they have done well with the upgrades. The CS30
design seems to be pretty good and responds well to the new go fast stuff.
These are the boats that are sailing to a 147 NFS rating.

  Your other comment about the "fudge factor" is an interesting discussion.
I am the PHRF handicapper at The National Yacht Club in Toronto. We invite
PHRF boats from other clubs to join us, so have about 100 boats in PHRF that
could compete in weeknight racing. So far there is no mechanism defined well
in PHRF to address the "traditional" vs "upgraded" split. It would be nice to
offer a modified rating to someone that mainly cruises and may not justify
the cost of upgrading their sail plan, but otherwise has a boat in good
condition and well crewed.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1



Message: 8 
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 10:39:44 -0400 
From: "Hoyt, Mike"  
To:  
Subject: Re: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30 
Message-ID: 
     <4cdebb6b0f16c541ba8f985b72705d541764f...@hfxexc02.impgroup.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 
 
"The CS30s that are in good condition and 
raced well can sail to a 147 rating." 
 
Michael 
  
PHRF handicaps are set to measure the boats that are sailed and prepped 
well".  They are not set for boats that are not in good condition, are 
not prepped well and not sailed well.  Those boats are expeceted to and 
deserve to lose unless club handicaps have some sort of fidge factor in 
place for new sailors etc ... 
  
Sorry for the rant but your description of a boat that can win with 
aggresive rating of 147 is exactly what handicapping is supposed to be 
all about.  Handicap boat model not individual yacht or crew. 
  
Mike 
 
 
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
Michael Brown 
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 11:41 PM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30 
 
 
> I have an old PHRF NE rating for the CS 30 @ 150, compared to the C&C 
30 
>  rating of 174, which gives you some idea of comparative. 
 
PHRF-LO for 2013: 
 
CS30 standard keel : 147 FS, 168 NFS 
CS30 shoal draft     :  153 FS, 174 NFS 
CS30 wing keel       :  153 FS, 174 NFS 
 
I have raced a C&C 30-1 against the CS30, both in the typical 1 mile 
legs 
windward leeward venue and on long distance races. The 147 FS rating is 
pretty aggressive for most CS30s The CS30s that are in good condition 
and 
raced well can sail to a 147 rating. 
 
Michael Brown 
Windburn 
C&C 30-1  

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Stus-List Nice sail today and annual invitation

[Dennis C.]

Had a nice single hand sail today.  Temp in high 70's to 80F, 10-12 knots 
breeze.  Was showing 6.7-7.0 knots SOG beam reaching.  

As always, listers are welcome to escape the cold and get a sailing fix anytime 
they are in the New Orleans area and I'm not out West skiing.


Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30

[Michael Brown]

Hi Mike,

  those are pretty accurate comments, I would not take them as a rant.

  In the CS30 fleet I see a mix of "traditional" and "upgraded" boats. I take
the traditional boats as having the original rigging, dacron sails and standard
double braid lines. The upgraded boats are sporting new technology sails,
such as tape drive or string, new deck layouts, spectra type lines and things
like carbon fiber spin poles. My comment, poorly explained, was that the
traditional boats even in good conditions will find a 147 NFS rating
"aggressive". Maybe not the best word for it. I was trying to in a friendly
way to caution a new owner that work ( upgrades ) may be required to
be competitive in a CS30 fleet.

  The CS30s I race against, Synchronicity - S'fida - Uncorked, in things like
the LOSHRS look like they have done well with the upgrades. The CS30
design seems to be pretty good and responds well to the new go fast stuff.
These are the boats that are sailing to a 147 NFS rating.

  Your other comment about the "fudge factor" is an interesting discussion.
I am the PHRF handicapper at The National Yacht Club in Toronto. We invite
PHRF boats from other clubs to join us, so have about 100 boats in PHRF that
could compete in weeknight racing. So far there is no mechanism defined well
in PHRF to address the "traditional" vs "upgraded" split. It would be nice to
offer a modified rating to someone that mainly cruises and may not justify
the cost of upgrading their sail plan, but otherwise has a boat in good
condition and well crewed.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1



Message: 8 
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 10:39:44 -0400 
From: "Hoyt, Mike"  
To:  
Subject: Re: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30 
Message-ID: 
     <4cdebb6b0f16c541ba8f985b72705d541764f...@hfxexc02.impgroup.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 
 
"The CS30s that are in good condition and 
raced well can sail to a 147 rating." 
 
Michael 
  
PHRF handicaps are set to measure the boats that are sailed and prepped 
well".  They are not set for boats that are not in good condition, are 
not prepped well and not sailed well.  Those boats are expeceted to and 
deserve to lose unless club handicaps have some sort of fidge factor in 
place for new sailors etc ... 
  
Sorry for the rant but your description of a boat that can win with 
aggresive rating of 147 is exactly what handicapping is supposed to be 
all about.  Handicap boat model not individual yacht or crew. 
  
Mike 
 
 
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
Michael Brown 
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 11:41 PM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30 
 
 
> I have an old PHRF NE rating for the CS 30 @ 150, compared to the C&C 
30 
>  rating of 174, which gives you some idea of comparative. 
 
PHRF-LO for 2013: 
 
CS30 standard keel : 147 FS, 168 NFS 
CS30 shoal draft     :  153 FS, 174 NFS 
CS30 wing keel       :  153 FS, 174 NFS 
 
I have raced a C&C 30-1 against the CS30, both in the typical 1 mile 
legs 
windward leeward venue and on long distance races. The 147 FS rating is 
pretty aggressive for most CS30s The CS30s that are in good condition 
and 
raced well can sail to a 147 rating. 
 
Michael Brown 
Windburn 
C&C 30-1  
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Re: Stus-List Low Bridge

[Chuck S]

Most people don't know the height of their cars or trucks. 
I think semi's are 13' to 13' 6". Saw several Ryder trucks, rented by people 
who just don't consider clearance. Oops. 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -
From: "Alan Bergen"  
To: "C&C Photoalbum email list"  
Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 1:25:41 PM 
Subject: Stus-List Low Bridge 



I don't believe the bridge has 11' 8" clearance as indicated by the sign. 
That's more than the height of most ceilings in a home. Don't you think that 
most of those vehicles would have stopped if they were higher than 11' 8"? I 
wonder where that's located. 



Alan Bergen 
C&C 35 Mk III Thirsty 
Rose City YC 
Portland, OR 



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Re: Stus-List Low Bridge

[Rich Knowles]

General expected clearance is 14'. Hard to tell whether there is other signage 
or poor visibility. Or

Rich

> On Nov 6, 2013, at 14:25, Alan Bergen  wrote:
> 
> I don't believe the bridge has 11' 8" clearance as indicated by the sign.  
> That's more than the height of most ceilings in a home.  Don't you think that 
> most of those vehicles would have stopped if they were higher than 11' 8"? I 
> wonder where that's located.
> 
> Alan Bergen
> C&C 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
> 
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Re: Stus-List Low Bridge

[Richard N. Bush]

We have just such a bridge here in Louisville, Kentucky and it has about the 
same record; bridge "122", trucks "0"...


Richard
1987 33-II

Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite 9
Louisville, Kentucky 40220 
502-584-7255



-Original Message-
From: Alan Bergen 
To: C&C Photoalbum email list 
Sent: Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:25 pm
Subject: Stus-List Low Bridge



I don't believe the bridge has 11' 8" clearance as indicated by the sign.  
That's more than the height of most ceilings in a home.  Don't you think that 
most of those vehicles would have stopped if they were higher than 11' 8"? I 
wonder where that's located.



Alan Bergen
C&C 35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR





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Stus-List Low Bridge

[Alan Bergen]

I don't believe the bridge has 11' 8" clearance as indicated by the sign. 
That's more than the height of most ceilings in a home. Don't you think that 
most of those vehicles would have stopped if they were higher than 11' 8"? I 
wonder where that's located. 

Alan Bergen 
C&C 35 Mk III Thirsty 
Rose City YC 
Portland, OR 

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Re: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30

[Hoyt, Mike]

"The CS30s that are in good condition and
raced well can sail to a 147 rating."

Michael
 
PHRF handicaps are set to measure the boats that are sailed and prepped
well".  They are not set for boats that are not in good condition, are
not prepped well and not sailed well.  Those boats are expeceted to and
deserve to lose unless club handicaps have some sort of fidge factor in
place for new sailors etc ...
 
Sorry for the rant but your description of a boat that can win with
aggresive rating of 147 is exactly what handicapping is supposed to be
all about.  Handicap boat model not individual yacht or crew.
 
Mike



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
Michael Brown
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 11:41 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30


> I have an old PHRF NE rating for the CS 30 @ 150, compared to the C&C
30
>  rating of 174, which gives you some idea of comparative.

PHRF-LO for 2013:

CS30 standard keel : 147 FS, 168 NFS
CS30 shoal draft :  153 FS, 174 NFS
CS30 wing keel   :  153 FS, 174 NFS

I have raced a C&C 30-1 against the CS30, both in the typical 1 mile
legs
windward leeward venue and on long distance races. The 147 FS rating is
pretty aggressive for most CS30s The CS30s that are in good condition
and
raced well can sail to a 147 rating.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1 




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Re: Stus-List Beneteau list on a newer C&C - ugh

[Hoyt, Mike]

Jake
 
Unless the holding tank is located on same side as the fridge this will
not work.  This list will get progessively worse as the day goes on ...



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jake
Brodersen
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 9:40 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Beneteau list on a newer C&C - ugh



John,

 

It sounds like 200 lbs. of beer in the galley might just solve your
problem.  But seriously, equipment added can cause balance problems.  Be
sure of your measurements, then move something to balance things out.
Batteries are heavy and not too difficult to move, if you have another
location to port where they might fit.

 

Jake 

 

C&C 35 Mk-III

"Midnight Mistress"

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
j...@svpaws.net
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 10:27 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Beneteau list on a newer C&C - ugh

 

So in a near empty boat, my C&C 121 (40') has a pretty significant list
to starboard.  The basic tanks are nicely placed to balance each other
with the exception of the holding tank which is pretty far to starboard.
I assume that would be offset by loading in the galley (port).  The
prior owner did add a large inverter (about 50 lbs) and two additional
batteries (150 lbs) both pretty far outboard. 

 

So before I go nuts moving batteries or installing weights, is the list
really caused by the additional 200lbs outboard or is this  more likely
the keel?  Any thoughts?

 

John

 

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