Re: Stus-List Wind Storm Damaged Genoa

[Rich Knowles]

You said "Policy coverage is for depreciated value on sails and they will only 
cover “reasonable cost of repairs actually incurred” for partial losses."

Can you reasonably expect more than what your coverage offers?

Rich


> On Dec 28, 2013, at 3:28, "Peter Fell"  wrote:
> 
> Well ... going from the nearest marine station we had 18 continuous hours of 
> wind over 50km/hr (30 kts). That’s the average of the last 2 minutes of each 
> hour. I was at the boat about 5-hours into that 18-hour time period and 
> everything was doing fine.
>  
> Not sure on the maximum gust speeds but the forecast was a severe wind 
> warning with gusts 60 to 80 km/hr (30 to 40 kts).
>  
> I’ve seen the comparisons between sailcloth that is completely toasted, limp, 
> etc.and mine ... and mine is light-years better than that.
>  
>  
> From: Jim Watts
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:43 PM
> To: Peter Fell ; 1 CnC List
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Wind Storm Damaged Genoa
>  
> A ten-year-old sail is, in most insurance companies' eyes, a tarp. If it's 
> shredded by a 20-knot breeze, it's not even that good. Time for a new sail. 
> Merry Christmas! An excellent excuse. 
> 
> 
>> On 27 December 2013 20:39, Peter Fell  wrote:
>> So a couple weeks before Christmas, a windstorm of 40 – 50 km/hr ripped 
>> apart my 130 genoa overnight. It stayed furled on the boat but the top 
>> caught the wind and peeled it down, ripping 3 panels across the leech / UV 
>> cover, breaking the leech line, etc.  No damage to the furler though ... I 
>> had that checked out by a rigger.
>>  
>> Local loft says $500 to fix the sail but the “designed shape has been 
>> compromised and repairs will not bring the sail back to pre damage 
>> condition”. That’s the loft manager’s wording verbatim.
>>  
>> So far insurance underwriter has responded back to the adjuster that they 
>> are willing only to ‘repair’ the sail, with the net result of me spending 
>> another $250 (deductible) on essentially a ruined sail. The adjuster is 
>> going to try again with a different approach. I’ll hear back in the new year 
>> on that.
>>  
>> I’m not obviously happy with this, considering, although the sail is 10+ 
>> years old, it was in pretty good condition (sailcloth and shape-wise) ... so 
>> much so that it was deemed worth it to have $500 of re-stitching, new UV 
>> cover, leach line, etc. done just over a year ago!
>>  
>> Policy coverage is for depreciated value on sails and they will only cover 
>> “reasonable cost of repairs actually incurred” for partial losses. Seems 
>> like pretty crappy coverage given what they consider ‘reasonable’ repairs.
>>  
>> I think my loft manager needs to be a bit more descriptive in their wording 
>> as well.
>>  
>> A new sail has been quoted from the loft at $2,500.  Of course adding a new 
>> sail won’t allow me to increase the insured value of my boat either ... 
>> since it would not be a new equipment addition to the boat ... just a 
>> replacement. A little loophole I discovered earlier this fall when I asked 
>> about this regarding my newly rebuilt engine ... since it is not a new 
>> addition and  most of the cost was in labour and replacing existing parts 
>> ... no value increase was deemed possible.
>>  
>> OK, I’ve finished my rant! Anyone have any suggestions?
>>  
>> Peter Fell
>> Sidney, BC
>> 1979 C&C 27 MkIII
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jim Watts
> Paradigm Shift
> C&C 35 Mk III
> Victoria, BC
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Re: Stus-List PFD/life vest

[Rich Knowles]

Mark: Come to the Binnacle today (Sat) and I'll walk you through the whole 
scenario. 9-5. 

Rich


> On Dec 28, 2013, at 1:05, M Bod  wrote:
> 
> Apparently I've got a few $ coming for Xmas gift to address (a small bit of) 
> my new boat needs. 
> I thought it would be prudent to get a couple of comfortable inflatable life 
> vests. 
> Given my sailing over the last 2 yrs has all been in the Halifax harbor and 
> never in inclement weather, I've never felt a need to wear a vest. 
> I'm hoping to stretch a little further with the new boat, and therefore the 
> thinking that a life vest might be useful. 
> Given I've never worn one I'm a complete newb!
> Any suggestions?
> Should I bump up to a harness version just to have it if needed? I don't do a 
> lot of solo sailing - but I do a lot of sailing with 4 kids on the boat who 
> would be extremely hard pressed to come back for me if I was bobbing in the 
> water off the stern!
> 
> What about automatic vs manual? 
> Preferred brand?
> 
> I'm guessing you get what you pay for, and I realize that an uncomfortable 
> vest is unlikely to get worn, and therefore be worthless, but I'm also not 
> expecting to head out into heavy conditions. I could just go with my current 
> PFD if things turn a bit hairy. 
> But seems my mom likes the idea of keeping my head above water! So what do 
> you pick? between a $100 Mustang vest, a $130 PLASTIMO inflatable 
> vest/harness or a $2-400 Mustang/Spinlock vest/harness.
> 
> Not planning to spend $400 - more the $100-150 range.
> 
> Last - are the auto inflators easily maintained? Or am I buying $35-65 kits 
> every yr to keep vest functional?
> 
> Thanks in advance for the advice.
> 
> Mark
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Re: Stus-List Wind Storm Damaged Genoa

[Peter Fell]

Well ... going from the nearest marine station we had 18 continuous hours of 
wind over 50km/hr (30 kts). That’s the average of the last 2 minutes of each 
hour. I was at the boat about 5-hours into that 18-hour time period and 
everything was doing fine.

Not sure on the maximum gust speeds but the forecast was a severe wind warning 
with gusts 60 to 80 km/hr (30 to 40 kts).

I’ve seen the comparisons between sailcloth that is completely toasted, limp, 
etc.and mine ... and mine is light-years better than that.


From: Jim Watts 
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:43 PM
To: Peter Fell ; 1 CnC List 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Wind Storm Damaged Genoa

A ten-year-old sail is, in most insurance companies' eyes, a tarp. If it's 
shredded by a 20-knot breeze, it's not even that good. Time for a new sail. 
Merry Christmas! An excellent excuse. 




On 27 December 2013 20:39, Peter Fell  wrote:

  So a couple weeks before Christmas, a windstorm of 40 – 50 km/hr ripped apart 
my 130 genoa overnight. It stayed furled on the boat but the top caught the 
wind and peeled it down, ripping 3 panels across the leech / UV cover, breaking 
the leech line, etc.  No damage to the furler though ... I had that checked out 
by a rigger.

  Local loft says $500 to fix the sail but the “designed shape has been 
compromised and repairs will not bring the sail back to pre damage condition”. 
That’s the loft manager’s wording verbatim.

  So far insurance underwriter has responded back to the adjuster that they are 
willing only to ‘repair’ the sail, with the net result of me spending another 
$250 (deductible) on essentially a ruined sail. The adjuster is going to try 
again with a different approach. I’ll hear back in the new year on that.

  I’m not obviously happy with this, considering, although the sail is 10+ 
years old, it was in pretty good condition (sailcloth and shape-wise) ... so 
much so that it was deemed worth it to have $500 of re-stitching, new UV cover, 
leach line, etc. done just over a year ago!

  Policy coverage is for depreciated value on sails and they will only cover 
“reasonable cost of repairs actually incurred” for partial losses. Seems like 
pretty crappy coverage given what they consider ‘reasonable’ repairs.

  I think my loft manager needs to be a bit more descriptive in their wording 
as well.

  A new sail has been quoted from the loft at $2,500.  Of course adding a new 
sail won’t allow me to increase the insured value of my boat either ... since 
it would not be a new equipment addition to the boat ... just a replacement. A 
little loophole I discovered earlier this fall when I asked about this 
regarding my newly rebuilt engine ... since it is not a new addition and  most 
of the cost was in labour and replacing existing parts ... no value increase 
was deemed possible.

  OK, I’ve finished my rant! Anyone have any suggestions?

  Peter Fell
  Sidney, BC
  1979 C&C 27 MkIII



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-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
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Re: Stus-List Wind Storm Damaged Genoa

[Jim Watts]

A ten-year-old sail is, in most insurance companies' eyes, a tarp. If it's
shredded by a 20-knot breeze, it's not even that good. Time for a new sail.
Merry Christmas! An excellent excuse.


On 27 December 2013 20:39, Peter Fell  wrote:

>   So a couple weeks before Christmas, a windstorm of 40 – 50 km/hr ripped
> apart my 130 genoa overnight. It stayed furled on the boat but the top
> caught the wind and peeled it down, ripping 3 panels across the leech / UV
> cover, breaking the leech line, etc.  No damage to the furler though ... I
> had that checked out by a rigger.
>
> Local loft says $500 to fix the sail but the “designed shape has been
> compromised and repairs will not bring the sail back to pre damage
> condition”. That’s the loft manager’s wording verbatim.
>
> So far insurance underwriter has responded back to the adjuster that they
> are willing only to ‘repair’ the sail, with the net result of me spending
> another $250 (deductible) on essentially a ruined sail. The adjuster is
> going to try again with a different approach. I’ll hear back in the new
> year on that.
>
> I’m not obviously happy with this, considering, although the sail is 10+
> years old, it was in pretty good condition (sailcloth and shape-wise) ...
> so much so that it was deemed worth it to have $500 of re-stitching, new UV
> cover, leach line, etc. done just over a year ago!
>
> Policy coverage is for depreciated value on sails and they will only cover
> “reasonable cost of repairs actually incurred” for partial losses. Seems
> like pretty crappy coverage given what they consider ‘reasonable’ repairs.
>
> I think my loft manager needs to be a bit more descriptive in their
> wording as well.
>
> A new sail has been quoted from the loft at $2,500.  Of course adding a
> new sail won’t allow me to increase the insured value of my boat either ...
> since it would not be a new equipment addition to the boat ... just a
> replacement. A little loophole I discovered earlier this fall when I asked
> about this regarding my newly rebuilt engine ... since it is not a new
> addition and  most of the cost was in labour and replacing existing parts
> ... no value increase was deemed possible.
>
> OK, I’ve finished my rant! Anyone have any suggestions?
>
> Peter Fell
> Sidney, BC
> 1979 C&C 27 MkIII
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
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Stus-List PFD/life vest

[M Bod]

Apparently I've got a few $ coming for Xmas gift to address (a small bit of) my 
new boat needs. 
I thought it would be prudent to get a couple of comfortable inflatable life 
vests. 
Given my sailing over the last 2 yrs has all been in the Halifax harbor and 
never in inclement weather, I've never felt a need to wear a vest. 
I'm hoping to stretch a little further with the new boat, and therefore the 
thinking that a life vest might be useful. 
Given I've never worn one I'm a complete newb!
Any suggestions?
Should I bump up to a harness version just to have it if needed? I don't do a 
lot of solo sailing - but I do a lot of sailing with 4 kids on the boat who 
would be extremely hard pressed to come back for me if I was bobbing in the 
water off the stern!

What about automatic vs manual? 
Preferred brand?

I'm guessing you get what you pay for, and I realize that an uncomfortable vest 
is unlikely to get worn, and therefore be worthless, but I'm also not expecting 
to head out into heavy conditions. I could just go with my current PFD if 
things turn a bit hairy. 
But seems my mom likes the idea of keeping my head above water! So what do you 
pick? between a $100 Mustang vest, a $130 PLASTIMO inflatable vest/harness or a 
$2-400 Mustang/Spinlock vest/harness.

Not planning to spend $400 - more the $100-150 range.

Last - are the auto inflators easily maintained? Or am I buying $35-65 kits 
every yr to keep vest functional?

Thanks in advance for the advice.

Mark
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Re: Stus-List JH4 Yanmar Serial #

[Rich Knowles]

Item 1 on p 15, 16, 17. Engine nameplate. Good for you. I missed that. 

Rich


> On Dec 28, 2013, at 0:26, sam.c.sal...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Sorry, page 27 - engine rocker arm cover.
> 
> sam :-)
> From: Rich Knowles
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 7:13 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Reply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List JH4 Yanmar Serial #
> 
> I found that too, but where is it on the engine? Nothing in the manual 
> indicating that. 
> 
> Rich
> 
> > On Dec 27, 2013, at 21:37, Sam Salter  wrote:
> > 
> > http://www.yanmarmarine.co.uk/pdfs/owners_manual/0AJH4-G00102.pdf
> > 
> > See page 19
> > 
> > sam :-)
> > C&C 26 Liquorice
> > Ghost Lake Alberta
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
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> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Stus-List Wind Storm Damaged Genoa

[Peter Fell]

So a couple weeks before Christmas, a windstorm of 40 – 50 km/hr ripped apart 
my 130 genoa overnight. It stayed furled on the boat but the top caught the 
wind and peeled it down, ripping 3 panels across the leech / UV cover, breaking 
the leech line, etc.  No damage to the furler though ... I had that checked out 
by a rigger.

Local loft says $500 to fix the sail but the “designed shape has been 
compromised and repairs will not bring the sail back to pre damage condition”. 
That’s the loft manager’s wording verbatim.

So far insurance underwriter has responded back to the adjuster that they are 
willing only to ‘repair’ the sail, with the net result of me spending another 
$250 (deductible) on essentially a ruined sail. The adjuster is going to try 
again with a different approach. I’ll hear back in the new year on that.

I’m not obviously happy with this, considering, although the sail is 10+ years 
old, it was in pretty good condition (sailcloth and shape-wise) ... so much so 
that it was deemed worth it to have $500 of re-stitching, new UV cover, leach 
line, etc. done just over a year ago!

Policy coverage is for depreciated value on sails and they will only cover 
“reasonable cost of repairs actually incurred” for partial losses. Seems like 
pretty crappy coverage given what they consider ‘reasonable’ repairs.

I think my loft manager needs to be a bit more descriptive in their wording as 
well.

A new sail has been quoted from the loft at $2,500.  Of course adding a new 
sail won’t allow me to increase the insured value of my boat either ... since 
it would not be a new equipment addition to the boat ... just a replacement. A 
little loophole I discovered earlier this fall when I asked about this 
regarding my newly rebuilt engine ... since it is not a new addition and  most 
of the cost was in labour and replacing existing parts ... no value increase 
was deemed possible.

OK, I’ve finished my rant! Anyone have any suggestions?

Peter Fell
Sidney, BC
1979 C&C 27 MkIII

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Re: Stus-List JH4 Yanmar Serial #

[sam . c . salter]

Sorry, page 27 - engine rocker arm cover.  sam :-) From: Rich KnowlesSent: Friday, December 27, 2013 7:13 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comSubject: Re: Stus-List JH4 Yanmar Serial #I found that too, but where is it on the engine? Nothing in the manual indicating that. Rich> On Dec 27, 2013, at 21:37, Sam Salter  wrote:> > http://www.yanmarmarine.co.uk/pdfs/owners_manual/0AJH4-G00102.pdf> > See page 19> > sam :-)> C&C 26 Liquorice> Ghost Lake Alberta> > > ___> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com> CnC-List@cnc-list.com___This List is provided by the C&C Photo Albumhttp://www.cncphotoalbum.comCnC-List@cnc-list.com

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Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole filling, etc.

[Antoine Rose]

Happy holidays Barbara,
What was confusing with old Barient Winches is that the umber didn't reflect 
their power ration. When I replaced my old Barient, I found that the equivalent 
to the 22 was the 40s. That is, when using a 10 inch long handle, if you put a 
10 lbs pressure on the handle, the winch will pull 40 times that amount on the 
line: 400 pounds of tension.

So, the first question is what size. For my C&C 30 Mk1, I purchased a pair of 
Andersen 40 ST. Do do the job well and I don't have to pull that hard. However, 
they are a bit too hard for my wife and perhaps the next size would have been 
better for her. For a 33, I would consider the next size above 40.

I have a pair of Andersen winches. Very light, similar weight to aluminum 
winches, but all stainless steel. They got tested well on the ocean and did 
very well. You said only the Lewmar has a base of 6 5/8". Well, the drum base 
for the Andersen 46ST is 7 1/8". That should do it.

I wouldn't worry about filling the holes. Easy to do and others made good 
suggestions. The most important things are not the holes but the backing. I've 
cut disks roughly of the same size as the base in 14" phenolic with heavy 
washers. Phenolic is a very strong material. Old C&C sheet blocks were made in 
that material. Now 40 years after, mine still work perfectly. Actually, I think 
that when I will sell the boat, I'l probably buy new blocks for the boat to 
keep the old ones.

Final suggestion: whatever winch you buy, order a pack of spare spring at the 
same time. They should always be on board and never dismantle a winch without 
spare supply of spring. 

Antoine (C&C 30 Cousin)


Le 2013-12-27 à 08:58, Barbara L. Hickson a écrit :

> Happy holidays, all! 
> Santa brought me new self tailing winches and I need some advice.  The PO 
> replaced the original Barient 26s with Barient 28s, moving the 26s to the 
> back to be used for spin sheets. 
> The base diameter of the 28s is 8" and the hole diameter is 6 3/8". 
> I think replacing them with Lewmar EVO 45s is the only way to go: the 45s are 
> the only size whose base at 6 5/8" is big enough to cover the previous hole 
> diameter of 6 3/8". 
> I don't want to leave an ugly ring of "we replaced our winches" left on the 
> coaming but I think after removing the bedding compound and polishing the 
> exposed gelcoat, the area outside the base of the new winches should look 
> pretty good. I have no illusions that it will match exactly.   Is my thinking 
> wrong on this? I really don't want to go to the expense and trouble to have 
> anything look like crap. AND I don't think it is worth the expense and 
> trouble to put Lewmar 50s on a 33' boat. That's just crazy.
> Secondly, the PO did not fill the first bolt holes when he put his new 
> winches on.  Now there will be 2 sets of bolt holes to be epoxied.  Is this 
> going to be a structural problem for the new winches? I am planning to use an 
> aluminum backing plate for the new ones. I've read on forums of about 4-6 yrs 
> ago that finding the exact same hole pattern was apparently the preferred way 
> to go, and listers from this forum waited over a year to find Barient 28STs 
> on Ebay.  In the last 2-4 yrs however, opinions seem to be that hole patterns 
> should not be that much of a consideration.  Should I plan on doing more than 
> just epoxying the holes or do I need matting on the underside or should I 
> wait eons for Ebay to produce a pair of Barient 28ST? There is one on there 
> now asking $1500 and it looks like s!@#. 
> Lastly, IMO I think we should be using the size 40 winches.  Is there any way 
> we can get away with using these and not sacrifice any structural integrity 
> or have the exposed finish look like crap and see all the epoxy-filled holes? 
>   New deck paint is pretty much out of the question; she's in very good shape.
> Thoughts, advice and recommendations please? Thanks for any help,
> Barbara Hickson Fellers
> Flight Risk, 33-1
> Charleston, SC
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Re: Stus-List JH4 Yanmar Serial #

[Rich Knowles]

I found that too, but where is it on the engine? Nothing in the manual 
indicating that. 

Rich

> On Dec 27, 2013, at 21:37, Sam Salter  wrote:
> 
> http://www.yanmarmarine.co.uk/pdfs/owners_manual/0AJH4-G00102.pdf
> 
> See page 19
> 
> sam :-)
> C&C 26 Liquorice
> Ghost Lake Alberta
> 
> 
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Stus-List JH4 Yanmar Serial #

[Sam Salter]

http://www.yanmarmarine.co.uk/pdfs/owners_manual/0AJH4-G00102.pdf

See page 19

sam :-)
C&C 26 Liquorice
Ghost Lake Alberta


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Re: Stus-List engine serial nbr.

[Rich Knowles]

Fred: I found the serial number on my 3QM on a small plaque attached to the 
side of the block. I just spent some time trying in vain to find out where 
yours might be. Best suggestion I can come up with is to contact the company 
via http://us.yanmar.com/contact/ and the question box on the right side of the 
page. There might be a human there??

Rich Knowles
INDIGO LF38
Halifax, NS.





On Dec 27, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Fred Hazzard  wrote:

With my boat in  Mexico  I recently had to list the engine serial number on my 
Temporary Import Permit.   After a futile search to find the serial number I 
created one.
 
I have just searched the engine manual with no success.  Do any of the listers 
know where the engine serial number is on a Yanmar JH4.  Given the excitement 
in Mexico over boats without proper documentation it may be important for me to 
find it.
 
Fred Hazzard
S/V Fury
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Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole filling, etc.

[Jim Watts]

I have Lewmar ST 48's and they are definitely not oversize for the boat. If
I could have sourced 52's at the same discount I would have gone for those.
Rich's 65's sound even better.


On 27 December 2013 13:02, Dennis C.  wrote:

> Remember, the highest loads occur with the smallest headsails.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 27, 2013, at 12:27 PM, Sylvain Laplante 
> wrote:
>
> Yes, Lewmar covers that in their Technical Guide.
>
> On their table they mention that if you have fractional rig you should go
> with the square area of the sail. For masthead rig they recommend to match
> with the length of the boat.
>
> For  a EVO ST40 used for genoa sheets here is what they recommend:
>
> Max of 300sq/ft  ( fractional  rig ) or 33 foot length boat ( mast head
> rig ). I assume this for a #1 genoa.
>
> Best size for a ST40 on a masthead rig is 31-34 feet , good between 34-36.
>
> SWL is 1700lb and sheets up to 1/2 in.
>
> At least they provide all the info to make a good choice and how to
> properly set the orientation and angle.
>
> Good things to know since we do it only once every 25 years :-)
>
>
> Sylvain
> C&C27MkIII
>
>   --
>  *From:* Rich Knowles 
> *To:* cnc-list Cnc-List 
> *Sent:* Friday, December 27, 2013 1:51 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation,
> old hole filling, etc.
>
> I replaced the original Barient 28's on my LF38 with a pair of last
> generation Lewmar 65's that I bought from a guy who replaced them with
> electric winches. Yes they are a bit big, but they fit, are easy on the
> crew, and I don't have to look at non-factory patch jobs made necessary by
> undersized winches. My 28's went to a J29. As Jim notes, no one on either
> boat has ever complained about the oversize winches.
>
> I suggest the 30's on the Beneteau 39, although they may well be the best
> thing on the boat, may be on the small end of the acceptable scale. Many of
> the Beneteau's have smaller rigs and headsails than similar length C&C's,
> so they may be fine.
>
> Choices, choices.
>
> Rich Knowles
> INDIGO LF38
> Halifax, NS.
>
>
> On Dec 27, 2013, at 10:42 AM, Joel Aronson  wrote:
>
> With all due respect to Rich, I don't think you need the 50s.  I sail on a
> Benne 39 with Lewmar 30s! They are the best thing on the boat. Epoxy the
> holes, and if necessary, get a piece of teak or starboard and cut it in a
> circle to go under the winch to cover the space occupied by the prior winch.
>
> Joel
> 35/3
> Annapolis.
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Rich Knowles  wrote:
>
> My $ .02:  Bigger is better. Go for the 50's. You'll be pleased you did.
> Once you ream out and epoxy the holes, you should have no strength issues
> whatsoever.
>
> Rich
>
> On Dec 27, 2013, at 9:58, "Barbara L. Hickson" 
> wrote:
>
>  Happy holidays, all!
> Santa brought me new self tailing winches and I need some advice.  The PO
> replaced the original Barient 26s with Barient 28s, moving the 26s to the
> back to be used for spin sheets.
> The base diameter of the 28s is 8" and the hole diameter is 6 3/8".
> I think replacing them with Lewmar EVO 45s is the only way to go: the 45s
> are the only size whose base at 6 5/8" is big enough to cover the previous
> hole diameter of 6 3/8".
> I don't want to leave an ugly ring of "we replaced our winches" left on
> the coaming but I think after removing the bedding compound and polishing
> the exposed gelcoat, the area outside the base of the new winches should
> look pretty good. I have no illusions that it will match exactly.   Is my
> thinking wrong on this? I really don't want to go to the expense and
> trouble to have anything look like crap. AND I don't think it is worth the
> expense and trouble to put Lewmar 50s on a 33' boat. That's just crazy.
> Secondly, the PO did not fill the first bolt holes when he put his new
> winches on.  Now there will be 2 sets of bolt holes to be epoxied.  Is this
> going to be a structural problem for the new winches? I am planning to use
> an aluminum backing plate for the new ones. I've read on forums of about
> 4-6 yrs ago that finding the exact same hole pattern was apparently the
> preferred way to go, and listers from this forum waited over a year to find
> Barient 28STs on Ebay.  In the last 2-4 yrs however, opinions seem to be
> that hole patterns should not be that much of a consideration.  Should I
> plan on doing more than just epoxying the holes or do I need matting on the
> underside or should I wait eons for Ebay to produce a pair of Barient 28ST?
> There is one on there now asking $1500 and it looks like s!@#.
> Lastly, IMO I think we should be using the size 40 winches.  Is there any
> way we can get away with using these and not sacrifice any structural
> integrity or have the exposed finish look like crap and see all the
> epoxy-filled holes?   New deck paint is pretty much out of the question;
> she's in very good shape.
> Thoughts, advice and recommendations 

Re: Stus-List engine serial nbr.

[Rick Taillieu]

Fred,

 

The books I found online say that the engine number is on a plate on top of
the rocker cover.

 

Good Hunting

 

Rick Taillieu

Nemesis

'75 C&C 25  #371

Shearwater Yacht Club

Halifax, NS.

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Fred
Hazzard
Sent: December-27-13 17:33
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List engine serial nbr.

 

With my boat in  Mexico  I recently had to list the engine serial number on
my Temporary Import Permit.   After a futile search to find the serial
number I created one.

 

I have just searched the engine manual with no success.  Do any of the
listers know where the engine serial number is on a Yanmar JH4.  Given the
excitement in Mexico over boats without proper documentation it may be
important for me to find it.

 

Fred Hazzard

S/V Fury

  _  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6953 - Release Date: 12/27/13

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Stus-List engine serial nbr.

[Fred Hazzard]

With my boat in  Mexico  I recently had to list the engine serial number on
my Temporary Import Permit.   After a futile search to find the serial
number I created one.

 

I have just searched the engine manual with no success.  Do any of the
listers know where the engine serial number is on a Yanmar JH4.  Given the
excitement in Mexico over boats without proper documentation it may be
important for me to find it.

 

Fred Hazzard

S/V Fury

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Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole filling, etc.

[Dennis C.]

Remember, the highest loads occur with the smallest headsails.

Dennis C.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2013, at 12:27 PM, Sylvain Laplante  
> wrote:
> 
> Yes, Lewmar covers that in their Technical Guide. 
> 
> On their table they mention that if you have fractional rig you should go 
> with the square area of the sail. For masthead rig they recommend to match 
> with the length of the boat.
> 
> For  a EVO ST40 used for genoa sheets here is what they recommend:
> 
> Max of 300sq/ft  ( fractional  rig ) or 33 foot length boat ( mast head rig 
> ). I assume this for a #1 genoa.
> 
> Best size for a ST40 on a masthead rig is 31-34 feet , good between 34-36.
> 
> SWL is 1700lb and sheets up to 1/2 in.
> 
> At least they provide all the info to make a good choice and how to properly 
> set the orientation and angle.
> 
> Good things to know since we do it only once every 25 years :-)
> 
> 
> Sylvain
> C&C27MkIII
> 
> From: Rich Knowles 
> To: cnc-list Cnc-List  
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 1:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation,
> old hole filling, etc.
> 
> I replaced the original Barient 28's on my LF38 with a pair of last 
> generation Lewmar 65's that I bought from a guy who replaced them with 
> electric winches. Yes they are a bit big, but they fit, are easy on the crew, 
> and I don't have to look at non-factory patch jobs made necessary by 
> undersized winches. My 28's went to a J29. As Jim notes, no one on either 
> boat has ever complained about the oversize winches.
> 
> I suggest the 30's on the Beneteau 39, although they may well be the best 
> thing on the boat, may be on the small end of the acceptable scale. Many of 
> the Beneteau's have smaller rigs and headsails than similar length C&C's, so 
> they may be fine.
> 
> Choices, choices.
> 
> Rich Knowles
> INDIGO LF38
> Halifax, NS.
> 
> 
> On Dec 27, 2013, at 10:42 AM, Joel Aronson  wrote:
> 
> With all due respect to Rich, I don't think you need the 50s.  I sail on a 
> Benne 39 with Lewmar 30s! They are the best thing on the boat. Epoxy the 
> holes, and if necessary, get a piece of teak or starboard and cut it in a 
> circle to go under the winch to cover the space occupied by the prior winch.
> 
> Joel
> 35/3
> Annapolis.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Rich Knowles  wrote:
> My $ .02:  Bigger is better. Go for the 50's. You'll be pleased you did. Once 
> you ream out and epoxy the holes, you should have no strength issues 
> whatsoever. 
> 
> Rich
> 
>> On Dec 27, 2013, at 9:58, "Barbara L. Hickson"  wrote:
>> 
>> Happy holidays, all! 
>> Santa brought me new self tailing winches and I need some advice.  The PO 
>> replaced the original Barient 26s with Barient 28s, moving the 26s to the 
>> back to be used for spin sheets. 
>> The base diameter of the 28s is 8" and the hole diameter is 6 3/8". 
>> I think replacing them with Lewmar EVO 45s is the only way to go: the 45s 
>> are the only size whose base at 6 5/8" is big enough to cover the previous 
>> hole diameter of 6 3/8". 
>> I don't want to leave an ugly ring of "we replaced our winches" left on the 
>> coaming but I think after removing the bedding compound and polishing the 
>> exposed gelcoat, the area outside the base of the new winches should look 
>> pretty good. I have no illusions that it will match exactly.   Is my 
>> thinking wrong on this? I really don't want to go to the expense and trouble 
>> to have anything look like crap. AND I don't think it is worth the expense 
>> and trouble to put Lewmar 50s on a 33' boat. That's just crazy.
>> Secondly, the PO did not fill the first bolt holes when he put his new  
>> winches on.  Now there will be 2 sets of bolt holes to be epoxied.  Is this 
>> going to be a structural problem for the new winches? I am planning to use 
>> an aluminum backing plate for the new ones. I've read on forums of about 4-6 
>> yrs ago that finding the exact same hole pattern was apparently the 
>> preferred way to go, and listers from this forum waited over a year to find 
>> Barient 28STs on Ebay.  In the last 2-4 yrs however, opinions seem to be 
>> that hole patterns should not be that much of a consideration.  Should I 
>> plan on doing more than just epoxying the holes or do I need matting on the 
>> underside or should I wait eons for Ebay to produce a pair of Barient 28ST? 
>> There is one on there now asking $1500 and it looks like s!@#. 
>> Lastly, IMO I think we should be using the size 40 winches.  Is there any 
>> way we can get away with using these and not sacrifice any structural 
>> integrity or have the exposed finish look like crap and see all the 
>> epoxy-filled holes?   New deck paint is pretty much out of the question; 
>> she's in very good shape.
>> Thoughts, advice and recommendations please? Thanks for any help,
>> Barbara Hickson Fellers
>> Flight Risk, 33-1
>> Charleston, SC
>> ___
>> This List is provided b

Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole filling, etc.

[Wally Bryant]

Yeah, but the women do.


Jim Watts wrote:

I have never heard anyone complain that their winches were too big.




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Re: Stus-List (long) Has Mexico jumped the shark?

[Wally Bryant]

Rich Knowles wrote:

How about neutering your rant, send it to me and I'll post it?



Actually, I deleted it.  Sometimes it's smart to just sit down and shut 
up.  (A good Captain knows how to be good crew... )


And I'm fine.  Nothing happened in La Paz while I was there, and I was 
off the dock for a month and just checked into La Cruz for the holidays, 
and the problem here had already happened.


Actually, I caught a perfect weather window for heading south. Sheesh.  
8 to 15 at my back, with a 2 foot following swell for four days.  I was 
cooking without spilling.  I set a port tack and lived the dream.  Even 
light air was enough to keep the sails quiet, and actually I like to 
know the boat's only making 4 knots while I'm sleeping.  Speaking of 
that, my one big screw-up was sleeping through both my timers.  I 
normally sleep with a 30 minute timer next to each ear, but apparently I 
was just too comfortable.  (Actually, it was a really good dream and I 
didn't want to wake up.)  Fortunately that happened way off shore.  
Maybe I should buy a parrot, but I hear they tend to outlive the owners 
and then no one will adopt them because they talk like singlehanded 
sailors.  Besides, they sh__ on your shoulder.


I'm not totally out of danger.  All of my paperwork is perfect, but that 
really doesn't mean anything.  The serial number for my engine is 
correct according to my little laminated warranty card, but I have no 
idea where the serial number is stamped on the engine block.  If someone 
wants to inspect it, I'm more than willing to spend 1/2 hour pulling 
everything out of the back of the boat and telling them to go stand on 
their head and find it. That's a bad attitude, though, and to avoid that 
I sent a customer support request to Westerbeke (who bought Universal) 
asking them where the serial number is stamped on a Universal M40-B.  
Actually it's just a Kubota block, just like the Nanni and Beta, so I 
imagine the serial number is in the same place.  (hint hint)  I probably 
won't have a problem if I get inspected, but all my paperwork says 
'Westerbeke' and my exhaust manifold says 'Universal' and I'm not 
conversant in Spanish well enough to explain mergers and acquisitions.  
I'm sure there won't be a problem, but this is a new world...


Wal


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Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole filling, etc.

[Martin DeYoung]

>> "Winches are for quitters." <<

Back when I was new to big boats with big sails racing offshore I was recruited 
to sail the 1977 Southern Straits of Georgia race (starts on Good Friday in 
Vancouver BC) on the C&C 39 "Midnight Special".  I was young and rash and 
declared "I have never met a winch that could beat me".

Well, after 26 hours of racing in winds from 8 to 45 with all the sail changes 
and short tacking to get out of current I had to eat those words and confess 
those Barient 36's with the titanium drums had completely kicked my a**.

Martin
Calypso
1971 C&C 43
Seattle
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 11:12 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole 
filling, etc.

Just have your crew work on their upper-body strength.

Winches are for quitters.



  All the best,

  Edd


  Edd M. Schillay
  Starship Enterprise
  C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
  City Island, NY
  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
Website

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Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole filling, etc.

[Sylvain Laplante]

Yes, Lewmar covers that in their Technical Guide. 

On their table they mention that if you have fractional rig you should go with 
the square area of the sail. For masthead rig they recommend to match with the 
length of the boat.

For  a EVO ST40 used for genoa sheets here is what they recommend:

Max of 300sq/ft  ( fractional  rig ) or 33 foot length boat ( mast head rig ). 
I assume this for a #1 genoa.


Best size for a ST40 on a masthead rig is 31-34 feet , good between 34-36.

SWL is 1700lb and sheets up to 1/2 in.


At least they provide all the info to make a good choice and how to properly 
set the orientation and angle.

Good things to know since we do it only once every 25 years :-)


Sylvain
C&C27MkIII



 From: Rich Knowles 
To: cnc-list Cnc-List  
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation,  old 
hole filling, etc.
 


I replaced the original Barient 28's on my LF38 with a pair of last generation 
Lewmar 65's that I bought from a guy who replaced them with electric winches. 
Yes they are a bit big, but they fit, are easy on the crew, and I don't have to 
look at non-factory patch jobs made necessary by undersized winches. My 28's 
went to a J29. As Jim notes, no one on either boat has ever complained about 
the oversize winches.

I suggest the 30's on the Beneteau 39, although they may well be the best thing 
on the boat, may be on the small end of the acceptable scale. Many of the 
Beneteau's have smaller rigs and headsails than similar length C&C's, so they 
may be fine.

Choices, choices.


Rich Knowles
INDIGO LF38
Halifax, NS.



On Dec 27, 2013, at 10:42 AM, Joel Aronson  wrote:

With all due respect to Rich, I don't think you need the 50s.  I sail on a 
Benne 39 with Lewmar 30s! They are the best thing on the boat. Epoxy the holes, 
and if necessary, get a piece of teak or starboard and cut it in a circle to go 
under the winch to cover the space occupied by the prior winch.


Joel
35/3
Annapolis.



On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Rich Knowles  wrote:

My $ .02:  Bigger is better. Go for the 50's. You'll be pleased you did. Once 
you ream out and epoxy the holes, you should have no strength issues 
whatsoever. 
>
>Rich
>
>On Dec 27, 2013, at 9:58, "Barbara L. Hickson"  wrote:
>
>
>Happy holidays, all!  
>>Santa brought me new self tailing winches and I need some advice.  The PO 
>>replaced the original Barient 26s with Barient 28s, moving the 26s to the 
>>back to be used for spin sheets.  
>>The base diameter of the 28s is 8" and the hole diameter is 6 3/8".  
>>I think replacing them with Lewmar EVO 45s is the only way to go: the 45s are 
>>the only size whose base at 6 5/8" is big enough to cover the previous hole 
>>diameter of 6 3/8".  
>>I don't want to leave an ugly ring of "we replaced our winches" left on the 
>>coaming but I think after removing the bedding compound and polishing the 
>>exposed gelcoat, the area outside the base of the new winches should look 
>>pretty good. I have no illusions that it will match exactly.   Is my thinking 
>>wrong on this? I really don't want to go to the expense and trouble to have 
>>anything look like crap. AND I don't think it is worth the expense and 
>>trouble to put Lewmar 50s on a 33' boat. That's just crazy. 
>>Secondly, the PO did not fill the first bolt holes when he put his new 
>>winches on.  Now there will be 2 sets of bolt holes to be epoxied.  Is this 
>>going to be a structural problem for the new winches? I am planning to use an 
>>aluminum backing plate for the new ones. I've read on forums of about 4-6 yrs 
>>ago that finding the exact same hole pattern was apparently the preferred way 
>>to go, and listers from this forum waited over a year to find Barient 28STs 
>>on Ebay.  In the last 2-4 yrs however, opinions seem to be that hole patterns 
>>should not be that much of a consideration.  Should I plan on doing more than 
>>just epoxying the holes or do I need matting on the underside or should I 
>>wait eons for Ebay to produce a pair of Barient 28ST? There is one on there 
>>now asking $1500 and it looks like s!@#.  
>>Lastly, IMO I think we should be using the size 40 winches.  Is there any way 
>>we can get away with using these and not sacrifice any structural integrity 
>>or have the exposed finish look like crap and see all the epoxy-filled holes? 
>>  New deck paint is pretty much out of the question; she's in very good 
>>shape. 
>>Thoughts, advice and recommendations please? Thanks for any help,
>>Barbara Hickson Fellers
>>Flight Risk, 33-1
>>Charleston, SC
>___
>>This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>
>___
>This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551 
__

Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole filling, etc.

[Edd Schillay]

Just have your crew work on their upper-body strength. 

Winches are for quitters. 



All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website

On Dec 27, 2013, at 9:42 AM, Joel Aronson  wrote:

> With all due respect to Rich, I don't think you need the 50s.  I sail on a 
> Benne 39 with Lewmar 30s! They are the best thing on the boat. Epoxy the 
> holes, and if necessary, get a piece of teak or starboard and cut it in a 
> circle to go under the winch to cover the space occupied by the prior winch.
> 
> Joel
> 35/3
> Annapolis.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Rich Knowles  wrote:
> My $ .02:  Bigger is better. Go for the 50's. You'll be pleased you did. Once 
> you ream out and epoxy the holes, you should have no strength issues 
> whatsoever. 
> 
> Rich
> 
> On Dec 27, 2013, at 9:58, "Barbara L. Hickson"  wrote:
> 
>> Happy holidays, all! 
>> Santa brought me new self tailing winches and I need some advice.  The PO 
>> replaced the original Barient 26s with Barient 28s, moving the 26s to the 
>> back to be used for spin sheets. 
>> The base diameter of the 28s is 8" and the hole diameter is 6 3/8". 
>> I think replacing them with Lewmar EVO 45s is the only way to go: the 45s 
>> are the only size whose base at 6 5/8" is big enough to cover the previous 
>> hole diameter of 6 3/8". 
>> I don't want to leave an ugly ring of "we replaced our winches" left on the 
>> coaming but I think after removing the bedding compound and polishing the 
>> exposed gelcoat, the area outside the base of the new winches should look 
>> pretty good. I have no illusions that it will match exactly.   Is my 
>> thinking wrong on this? I really don't want to go to the expense and trouble 
>> to have anything look like crap. AND I don't think it is worth the expense 
>> and trouble to put Lewmar 50s on a 33' boat. That's just crazy.
>> Secondly, the PO did not fill the first bolt holes when he put his new 
>> winches on.  Now there will be 2 sets of bolt holes to be epoxied.  Is this 
>> going to be a structural problem for the new winches? I am planning to use 
>> an aluminum backing plate for the new ones. I've read on forums of about 4-6 
>> yrs ago that finding the exact same hole pattern was apparently the 
>> preferred way to go, and listers from this forum waited over a year to find 
>> Barient 28STs on Ebay.  In the last 2-4 yrs however, opinions seem to be 
>> that hole patterns should not be that much of a consideration.  Should I 
>> plan on doing more than just epoxying the holes or do I need matting on the 
>> underside or should I wait eons for Ebay to produce a pair of Barient 28ST? 
>> There is one on there now asking $1500 and it looks like s!@#. 
>> Lastly, IMO I think we should be using the size 40 winches.  Is there any 
>> way we can get away with using these and not sacrifice any structural 
>> integrity or have the exposed finish look like crap and see all the 
>> epoxy-filled holes?   New deck paint is pretty much out of the question; 
>> she's in very good shape.
>> Thoughts, advice and recommendations please? Thanks for any help,
>> Barbara Hickson Fellers
>> Flight Risk, 33-1
>> Charleston, SC
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joel 
> 301 541 8551
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

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Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole filling, etc.

[Rich Knowles]

I replaced the original Barient 28's on my LF38 with a pair of last generation 
Lewmar 65's that I bought from a guy who replaced them with electric winches. 
Yes they are a bit big, but they fit, are easy on the crew, and I don't have to 
look at non-factory patch jobs made necessary by undersized winches. My 28's 
went to a J29. As Jim notes, no one on either boat has ever complained about 
the oversize winches.

I suggest the 30's on the Beneteau 39, although they may well be the best thing 
on the boat, may be on the small end of the acceptable scale. Many of the 
Beneteau's have smaller rigs and headsails than similar length C&C's, so they 
may be fine.

Choices, choices.

Rich Knowles
INDIGO LF38
Halifax, NS.


On Dec 27, 2013, at 10:42 AM, Joel Aronson  wrote:

With all due respect to Rich, I don't think you need the 50s.  I sail on a 
Benne 39 with Lewmar 30s! They are the best thing on the boat. Epoxy the holes, 
and if necessary, get a piece of teak or starboard and cut it in a circle to go 
under the winch to cover the space occupied by the prior winch.

Joel
35/3
Annapolis.


On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Rich Knowles  wrote:
My $ .02:  Bigger is better. Go for the 50's. You'll be pleased you did. Once 
you ream out and epoxy the holes, you should have no strength issues 
whatsoever. 

Rich

On Dec 27, 2013, at 9:58, "Barbara L. Hickson"  wrote:

> Happy holidays, all! 
> Santa brought me new self tailing winches and I need some advice.  The PO 
> replaced the original Barient 26s with Barient 28s, moving the 26s to the 
> back to be used for spin sheets. 
> The base diameter of the 28s is 8" and the hole diameter is 6 3/8". 
> I think replacing them with Lewmar EVO 45s is the only way to go: the 45s are 
> the only size whose base at 6 5/8" is big enough to cover the previous hole 
> diameter of 6 3/8". 
> I don't want to leave an ugly ring of "we replaced our winches" left on the 
> coaming but I think after removing the bedding compound and polishing the 
> exposed gelcoat, the area outside the base of the new winches should look 
> pretty good. I have no illusions that it will match exactly.   Is my thinking 
> wrong on this? I really don't want to go to the expense and trouble to have 
> anything look like crap. AND I don't think it is worth the expense and 
> trouble to put Lewmar 50s on a 33' boat. That's just crazy.
> Secondly, the PO did not fill the first bolt holes when he put his new 
> winches on.  Now there will be 2 sets of bolt holes to be epoxied.  Is this 
> going to be a structural problem for the new winches? I am planning to use an 
> aluminum backing plate for the new ones. I've read on forums of about 4-6 yrs 
> ago that finding the exact same hole pattern was apparently the preferred way 
> to go, and listers from this forum waited over a year to find Barient 28STs 
> on Ebay.  In the last 2-4 yrs however, opinions seem to be that hole patterns 
> should not be that much of a consideration.  Should I plan on doing more than 
> just epoxying the holes or do I need matting on the underside or should I 
> wait eons for Ebay to produce a pair of Barient 28ST? There is one on there 
> now asking $1500 and it looks like s!@#. 
> Lastly, IMO I think we should be using the size 40 winches.  Is there any way 
> we can get away with using these and not sacrifice any structural integrity 
> or have the exposed finish look like crap and see all the epoxy-filled holes? 
>   New deck paint is pretty much out of the question; she's in very good shape.
> Thoughts, advice and recommendations please? Thanks for any help,
> Barbara Hickson Fellers
> Flight Risk, 33-1
> Charleston, SC
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

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301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole filling, etc.

[Jim Watts]

I have never heard anyone complain that their winches were too big.

One trick to fill the old holes is to tape off the bottoms, then drip
enough 5-minute epoxy in to cover the bottom of the hole. This kicks off
very quickly and seals the hole so the later slow-cure epoxies don't drip
through.


On 27 December 2013 08:41, Dennis C.  wrote:

> Barbara,
>
> Some comments.  First, polish the area with AquaBuff 2000 (preferred) or
> 3M Finesse-It and a high speed DA polisher using lots of water.  Go slowly
> otherwise you'll remove all the gelcoat.  If you start to see structure
> through the gelcoat, STOP!
>
> Tape the underside of the holes and place drop clothes under the area.
>  You may think you've got the undersides taped but epoxy will find a way to
> drip.
>
> Using a syringe, inject neat epoxy into the holes then remove it.  This
> will coat the sides of the holes.  Next fill the holes with epoxy thickened
> with microfibers for strength.  Thickened epoxy does not penetrate into the
> core well.  That's why you coat it with neat epoxy.
>
> If the gelcoat didn't polish out well and you're left with an unsightly
> exposed ring, an option would be to paint the area with a contrasting paint
> or gelcoat it.  If you decide to do this, consider applying the tape then
> using the old winch bases as a pattern to cut the tape.  You'll end up with
> a nice circular apron around the bases of the new winches.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
>   --
>  *From:* Barbara L. Hickson 
> *To:* "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
> *Sent:* Friday, December 27, 2013 7:58 AM
> *Subject:* Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old
> hole filling, etc.
>
> Happy holidays, all!
> Santa brought me new self tailing winches and I need some advice.  The PO
> replaced the original Barient 26s with Barient 28s, moving the 26s to the
> back to be used for spin sheets.
> The base diameter of the 28s is 8" and the hole diameter is 6 3/8".
> I think replacing them with Lewmar EVO 45s is the only way to go: the 45s
> are the only size whose base at 6 5/8" is big enough to cover the previous
> hole diameter of 6 3/8".
> I don't want to leave an ugly ring of "we replaced our winches" left on
> the coaming but I think after removing the bedding compound and polishing
> the exposed gelcoat, the area outside the base of the new winches should
> look pretty good. I have no illusions that it will match exactly.   Is my
> thinking wrong on this? I really don't want to go to the expense and
> trouble to have anything look like crap. AND I don't think it is worth the
> expense and trouble to put Lewmar 50s on a 33' boat. That's just crazy.
> Secondly, the PO did not fill the first bolt holes when he put his new
> winches on.  Now there will be 2 sets of bolt holes to be epoxied.  Is this
> going to be a structural problem for the new winches? I am planning to use
> an aluminum backing plate for the new ones. I've read on forums of about
> 4-6 yrs ago that finding the exact same hole pattern was apparently the
> preferred way to go, and listers from this forum waited over a year to find
> Barient 28STs on Ebay.  In the last 2-4 yrs however, opinions seem to be
> that hole patterns should not be that much of a consideration.  Should I
> plan on doing more than just epoxying the holes or do I need matting on the
> underside or should I wait eons for Ebay to produce a pair of Barient 28ST?
> There is one on there now asking $1500 and it looks like s!@#.
> Lastly, IMO I think we should be using the size 40 winches.  Is there any
> way we can get away with using these and not sacrifice any structural
> integrity or have the exposed finish look like crap and see all the
> epoxy-filled holes?   New deck paint is pretty much out of the question;
> she's in very good shape.
> Thoughts, advice and recommendations please? Thanks for any help,
> Barbara Hickson Fellers
> *Flight Risk*, 33-1
> Charleston, SC
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
>
> ___
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> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
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Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole filling, etc.

[Dennis C.]

Barbara,

Some comments.  First, polish the area with AquaBuff 2000 (preferred) or 3M 
Finesse-It and a high speed DA polisher using lots of water.  Go slowly 
otherwise you'll remove all the gelcoat.  If you start to see structure through 
the gelcoat, STOP!

Tape the underside of the holes and place drop clothes under the area.  You may 
think you've got the undersides taped but epoxy will find a way to drip.  

Using a syringe, inject neat epoxy into the holes then remove it.  This will 
coat the sides of the holes.  Next fill the holes with epoxy thickened with 
microfibers for strength.  Thickened epoxy does not penetrate into the core 
well.  That's why you coat it with neat epoxy.

If the gelcoat didn't polish out well and you're left with an unsightly exposed 
ring, an option would be to paint the area with a contrasting paint or gelcoat 
it.  If you decide to do this, consider applying the tape then using the old 
winch bases as a pattern to cut the tape.  You'll end up with a nice circular 
apron around the bases of the new winches.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA


>
> From: Barbara L. Hickson 
>To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
>Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 7:58 AM
>Subject: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old 
>hole filling, etc.
> 
>
>
>Happy holidays, all!  
>Santa brought me new self tailing winches and I need some advice.  The PO 
>replaced the original Barient 26s with Barient 28s, moving the 26s to the back 
>to be used for spin sheets.  
>The base diameter of the 28s is 8" and the hole diameter is 6 3/8".  
>I think replacing them with Lewmar EVO 45s is the only way to go: the 45s are 
>the only size whose base at 6 5/8" is big enough to cover the previous hole 
>diameter of 6 3/8".  
>I don't want to leave an ugly ring of "we replaced our winches" left on the 
>coaming but I think after removing the bedding compound and polishing the 
>exposed gelcoat, the area outside the base of the new winches should look 
>pretty good. I have no illusions that it will match exactly.   Is my thinking 
>wrong on this? I really don't want to go to the expense and trouble to have 
>anything look like crap. AND I don't think it is worth the expense and trouble 
>to put Lewmar 50s on a 33' boat. That's just crazy. 
>Secondly, the PO did not fill the first bolt holes when he put his new winches 
>on.  Now there will be 2 sets of bolt holes to be epoxied.  Is this going to 
>be a structural problem for the new winches? I am planning to use an aluminum 
>backing plate for the new ones. I've read on forums of about 4-6 yrs ago that 
>finding the exact same hole pattern was apparently the preferred way to go, 
>and listers from this forum waited over a year to find Barient 28STs on Ebay.  
>In the last 2-4 yrs however, opinions seem to be that hole patterns should not 
>be that much of a consideration.  Should I plan on doing more than just 
>epoxying the holes or do I need matting on the underside or should I wait eons 
>for Ebay to produce a pair of Barient 28ST? There is one on there now asking 
>$1500 and it looks like s!@#.  
>Lastly, IMO I think we should be using the size 40 winches.  Is there any way 
>we can get away with using these and not sacrifice any structural integrity or 
>have the exposed finish look like crap and see all the epoxy-filled holes?   
>New deck paint is pretty much out of the question; she's in very good shape. 
>Thoughts, advice and recommendations please? Thanks for any help,
>Barbara Hickson Fellers
>Flight Risk, 33-1
>Charleston, SC
>___
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>
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Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole filling, etc.

[Sylvain Laplante]

Hi,
    Maybe ST30 is a bit too small, this is what I bought for my 27MkIII . Safe 
working load is around 1400 lb.

On a 33 I would go with EVO CST40 which have a swl of 1750lb. And I would go 
with the starboard route as a base. 3/4 inch plywood or aluminum as a backing 
plate.
Epoxy with silica to fill the holes.
Also, keep in mind that Lewmar give specs regarding the angle of entry in 
relation to the bock/base of winch ( typically around 10 degrees ). Check on 
their site.


Sylvain
C&C27 MkIII



 From: Joel Aronson 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole 
filling, etc.
 


With all due respect to Rich, I don't think you need the 50s.  I sail on a 
Benne 39 with Lewmar 30s! They are the best thing on the boat. Epoxy the holes, 
and if necessary, get a piece of teak or starboard and cut it in a circle to go 
under the winch to cover the space occupied by the prior winch.


Joel
35/3
Annapolis.



On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Rich Knowles  wrote:

My $ .02:  Bigger is better. Go for the 50's. You'll be pleased you did. Once 
you ream out and epoxy the holes, you should have no strength issues 
whatsoever. 
>
>Rich
>
>On Dec 27, 2013, at 9:58, "Barbara L. Hickson"  wrote:
>
>
>Happy holidays, all!  
>>Santa brought me new self tailing winches and I need some advice.  The PO 
>>replaced the original Barient 26s with Barient 28s, moving the 26s to the 
>>back to be used for spin sheets.  
>>The base diameter of the 28s is 8" and the hole diameter is 6 3/8".  
>>I think replacing them with Lewmar EVO 45s is the only way to go: the 45s are 
>>the only size whose base at 6 5/8" is big enough to cover the previous hole 
>>diameter of 6 3/8".  
>>I don't want to leave an ugly ring of "we replaced our winches" left on the 
>>coaming but I think after removing the bedding compound and polishing the 
>>exposed gelcoat, the area outside the base of the new winches should look 
>>pretty good. I have no illusions that it will match exactly.   Is my thinking 
>>wrong on this? I really don't want to go to the expense and trouble to have 
>>anything look like crap. AND I don't think it is worth the expense and 
>>trouble to put Lewmar 50s on a 33' boat. That's just crazy. 
>>Secondly, the PO did not fill the first bolt holes when he put his new 
>>winches on.  Now there will be 2 sets of bolt holes to be epoxied.  Is this 
>>going to be a structural problem for the new winches? I am planning to use an 
>>aluminum backing plate for the new ones. I've read on forums of about 4-6 yrs 
>>ago that finding the exact same hole pattern was apparently the preferred way 
>>to go, and listers from this forum waited over a year to find Barient 28STs 
>>on Ebay.  In the last 2-4 yrs however, opinions seem to be that hole patterns 
>>should not be that much of a consideration.  Should I plan on doing more than 
>>just epoxying the holes or do I need matting on the underside or should I 
>>wait eons for Ebay to produce a pair of Barient 28ST? There is one on there 
>>now asking $1500 and it looks like s!@#.  
>>Lastly, IMO I think we should be using the size 40 winches.  Is there any way 
>>we can get away with using these and not sacrifice any structural integrity 
>>or have the exposed finish look like crap and see all the epoxy-filled holes? 
>>  New deck paint is pretty much out of the question; she's in very good 
>>shape. 
>>Thoughts, advice and recommendations please? Thanks for any help,
>>Barbara Hickson Fellers
>>Flight Risk, 33-1
>>Charleston, SC
>___
>>This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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>>
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>


-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551 

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Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole filling, etc.

[Joel Aronson]

With all due respect to Rich, I don't think you need the 50s.  I sail on a
Benne 39 with Lewmar 30s! They are the best thing on the boat. Epoxy the
holes, and if necessary, get a piece of teak or starboard and cut it in a
circle to go under the winch to cover the space occupied by the prior winch.

Joel
35/3
Annapolis.


On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Rich Knowles  wrote:

> My $ .02:  Bigger is better. Go for the 50's. You'll be pleased you did.
> Once you ream out and epoxy the holes, you should have no strength issues
> whatsoever.
>
> Rich
>
> On Dec 27, 2013, at 9:58, "Barbara L. Hickson" 
> wrote:
>
> Happy holidays, all!
> Santa brought me new self tailing winches and I need some advice.  The PO
> replaced the original Barient 26s with Barient 28s, moving the 26s to the
> back to be used for spin sheets.
> The base diameter of the 28s is 8" and the hole diameter is 6 3/8".
> I think replacing them with Lewmar EVO 45s is the only way to go: the 45s
> are the only size whose base at 6 5/8" is big enough to cover the previous
> hole diameter of 6 3/8".
> I don't want to leave an ugly ring of "we replaced our winches" left on
> the coaming but I think after removing the bedding compound and polishing
> the exposed gelcoat, the area outside the base of the new winches should
> look pretty good. I have no illusions that it will match exactly.   Is my
> thinking wrong on this? I really don't want to go to the expense and
> trouble to have anything look like crap. AND I don't think it is worth the
> expense and trouble to put Lewmar 50s on a 33' boat. That's just crazy.
> Secondly, the PO did not fill the first bolt holes when he put his new
> winches on.  Now there will be 2 sets of bolt holes to be epoxied.  Is this
> going to be a structural problem for the new winches? I am planning to use
> an aluminum backing plate for the new ones. I've read on forums of about
> 4-6 yrs ago that finding the exact same hole pattern was apparently the
> preferred way to go, and listers from this forum waited over a year to find
> Barient 28STs on Ebay.  In the last 2-4 yrs however, opinions seem to be
> that hole patterns should not be that much of a consideration.  Should I
> plan on doing more than just epoxying the holes or do I need matting on the
> underside or should I wait eons for Ebay to produce a pair of Barient 28ST?
> There is one on there now asking $1500 and it looks like s!@#.
> Lastly, IMO I think we should be using the size 40 winches.  Is there any
> way we can get away with using these and not sacrifice any structural
> integrity or have the exposed finish look like crap and see all the
> epoxy-filled holes?   New deck paint is pretty much out of the question;
> she's in very good shape.
> Thoughts, advice and recommendations please? Thanks for any help,
> Barbara Hickson Fellers
> *Flight Risk*, 33-1
> Charleston, SC
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole filling, etc.

[Rich Knowles]

My $ .02:  Bigger is better. Go for the 50's. You'll be pleased you did. Once 
you ream out and epoxy the holes, you should have no strength issues 
whatsoever. 

Rich

> On Dec 27, 2013, at 9:58, "Barbara L. Hickson"  wrote:
> 
> Happy holidays, all! 
> Santa brought me new self tailing winches and I need some advice.  The PO 
> replaced the original Barient 26s with Barient 28s, moving the 26s to the 
> back to be used for spin sheets. 
> The base diameter of the 28s is 8" and the hole diameter is 6 3/8". 
> I think replacing them with Lewmar EVO 45s is the only way to go: the 45s are 
> the only size whose base at 6 5/8" is big enough to cover the previous hole 
> diameter of 6 3/8". 
> I don't want to leave an ugly ring of "we replaced our winches" left on the 
> coaming but I think after removing the bedding compound and polishing the 
> exposed gelcoat, the area outside the base of the new winches should look 
> pretty good. I have no illusions that it will match exactly.   Is my thinking 
> wrong on this? I really don't want to go to the expense and trouble to have 
> anything look like crap. AND I don't think it is worth the expense and 
> trouble to put Lewmar 50s on a 33' boat. That's just crazy.
> Secondly, the PO did not fill the first bolt holes when he put his new 
> winches on.  Now there will be 2 sets of bolt holes to be epoxied.  Is this 
> going to be a structural problem for the new winches? I am planning to use an 
> aluminum backing plate for the new ones. I've read on forums of about 4-6 yrs 
> ago that finding the exact same hole pattern was apparently the preferred way 
> to go, and listers from this forum waited over a year to find Barient 28STs 
> on Ebay.  In the last 2-4 yrs however, opinions seem to be that hole patterns 
> should not be that much of a consideration.  Should I plan on doing more than 
> just epoxying the holes or do I need matting on the underside or should I 
> wait eons for Ebay to produce a pair of Barient 28ST? There is one on there 
> now asking $1500 and it looks like s!@#. 
> Lastly, IMO I think we should be using the size 40 winches.  Is there any way 
> we can get away with using these and not sacrifice any structural integrity 
> or have the exposed finish look like crap and see all the epoxy-filled holes? 
>   New deck paint is pretty much out of the question; she's in very good shape.
> Thoughts, advice and recommendations please? Thanks for any help,
> Barbara Hickson Fellers
> Flight Risk, 33-1
> Charleston, SC
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole filling, etc.

[Barbara L. Hickson]

Happy holidays, all!  
Santa brought me new self tailing winches and I need some advice.  The PO 
replaced the original Barient 26s with Barient 28s, moving the 26s to the back 
to be used for spin sheets.  
The base diameter of the 28s is 8" and the hole diameter is 6 3/8".  
I think replacing them with Lewmar EVO 45s is the only way to go: the 45s are 
the only size whose base at 6 5/8" is big enough to cover the previous hole 
diameter of 6 3/8".  
I don't want to leave an ugly ring of "we replaced our winches" left on the 
coaming but I think after removing the bedding compound and polishing the 
exposed gelcoat, the area outside the base of the new winches should look 
pretty good. I have no illusions that it will match exactly.   Is my thinking 
wrong on this? I really don't want to go to the expense and trouble to have 
anything look like crap. AND I don't think it is worth the expense and trouble 
to put Lewmar 50s on a 33' boat. That's just crazy. 
Secondly, the PO did not fill the first bolt holes when he put his new winches 
on.  Now there will be 2 sets of bolt holes to be epoxied.  Is this going to be 
a structural problem for the new winches? I am planning to use an aluminum 
backing plate for the new ones. I've read on forums of about 4-6 yrs ago that 
finding the exact same hole pattern was apparently the preferred way to go, and 
listers from this forum waited over a year to find Barient 28STs on Ebay.  In 
the last 2-4 yrs however, opinions seem to be that hole patterns should not be 
that much of a consideration.  Should I plan on doing more than just epoxying 
the holes or do I need matting on the underside or should I wait eons for Ebay 
to produce a pair of Barient 28ST? There is one on there now asking $1500 and 
it looks like s!@#.  
Lastly, IMO I think we should be using the size 40 winches.  Is there any way 
we can get away with using these and not sacrifice any structural integrity or 
have the exposed finish look like crap and see all the epoxy-filled holes?   
New deck paint is pretty much out of the question; she's in very good shape. 
Thoughts, advice and recommendations please? Thanks for any help,
Barbara Hickson Fellers
Flight Risk, 33-1
Charleston, SC___
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Re: Stus-List (long) Has Mexico jumped the shark?

[Frederick G Street]

Curt — as far as we know, nobody on the C&C list (including Wal) has been 
detained.  Jim was just forwarding an email from another list.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Dec 27, 2013, at 6:31 AM, Curtis  wrote:

> I will be praying for your return to freedom,or your ability to come and go 
> as the tide allows. I'm sure its just a matter of  government management of 
> information. I am sorry for your untimely detention and hope it will end soon.
> God speed.
> Capt. Curt

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Re: Stus-List (long) Has Mexico jumped the shark?

[Curtis]

I will be praying for your return to freedom,or your ability to come and go
as the tide allows. I'm sure its just a matter of  government management of
information. I am sorry for your untimely detention and hope it will end
soon.
God speed.
Capt. Curt



On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Wally Bryant  wrote:

> Jim Watts wrote:
>
>> Anyone down there right now with local knowledge? Wally?
>>
>
> The msg below was on the southbound list today, and spells out the
> situation very well.  It's not nearly as funny as my rant, but will
> probably pass under the radar.  (My little message probably would have put
> me on someone's 'troublemaker' list.)
>
> I pulled into La Cruz to spend the holidays at the dock, and am next to an
> impounded CS36.  They won't be heading to El Salvador this winter, now, but
> seem to be taking it in stride.  There's no point getting all worked up
> about it, because all that will do is make folks not want to help you.
>
>
>
>  As one of those people who has a "dog (aka boat) in this fight" perhaps
>> I can set the record straight(er). Following is our own
>> experience/understanding on this matter. It may be different from yours
>> if you have a boat here in Mexico that was effected since every marina
>> may have had a different experience and there are those others who
>> interpret what is proper and not and proceed on their way even though
>> that "technically" they readily admit it is not correct.
>>
>> 1. Here in La Cruz there are either 50 or 55 boats on the "list" that
>> are temporarily impounded. We are included on that list. Over all we
>> have been told that there are 388 boats on the list across Mexico. We
>> have also been told that there are fewer.
>>
>> 2. Our documentation was correct. Initially, we were not asked for our
>> documentation. The SAT (presumably) personnel walked down the dock
>> backed by 2 armed military personnel and a representative of the marina.
>> In some cases, they inspected paperwork. In others, even when asked to
>> do so, they declined. In our case, they did not knock on the hull nor
>> did they shout the boat name they simply wrote down the name and moved
>> on without looking at anything. Lynn was off the boat at the time and I
>> was onboard working and waiting, with paperwork in hand, for them to
>> arrive. I was unaware that there was any perception of a problem.
>>
>> 3. We have been told (no informative paperwork to tell us) that we
>> cannot leave the dock for any reason. We would do so at our own risk.
>> However, there have been some races and other activities here since this
>> all began and at least some of those on the list have interpreted the
>> impound to mean they can go off the dock and return. They do so at their
>> own risk (presumably of being formally impounded although that has not
>> been formally indicated).
>>
>> 4. The SAT personnel (?) returned a few days later accompanied by the
>> harbormaster. They were physically inspecting the boat HIN as compared
>> to the TIP info and took a photo of the HIN. Then they were checking off
>> on 2 or 3 lists that it was correct and then moved on. Our documentation
>> was completely correct and we were told that everything was okay. We
>> presumed that we had cleared the "temporary impound". Not so.
>>
>> 5. A few days ago I had a conversation with the Harbormaster and was
>> told that this entire matter had to be cleared by Mexico City.
>> Apparently the "local" people were unable to make that determnation. He
>> said that both he and the marina attorney had made several trips to
>> Mexico City and elsewhere to get this matter cleared but as yet, nothing
>> had been finalized. Conversations "on the dock" have yielded estimates
>> from "a few days" to "maybe 6 months" to get this straightened out. No
>> one knows or seems to know. IF they do, they are apparently well
>> upstream in the Mexican government and haven't yet spoken with those
>> here who need to know.
>>
>> 6. Lat 38 has a boat in this too (also here in La Cruz). He has the
>> deeper pockets and the political connections to get to the top of this
>> (we are at the bottom) and get something going. He writes about it in
>> Lat 38. The fact that he does and has a mag doesn't mean he is catering
>> to advertising, etc. interests. IF you were here or elsewhere AND
>> involved in this you might have a different picture of what was/is going
>> on.
>>
>> 7. In some of these posts, it was indicated that the marina might not or
>> did not have proper paperwork on file. La Cruz (properly called Marina
>> Riviara Nayarit) is a relatively new marina and, it would seem natural
>> to have the most current info on what is necessary. The original marina
>> person you might have checked in with is no longer here. Someone else
>> is, and she does a great job. They do what they are told to do. If their
>> files were not correct, I tend to think they were told they did not need
>> to have that paperwork. The question is: where did that 

Re: Stus-List (long) Has Mexico jumped the shark?

[Rich Knowles]

Hey Wal!  Merry time of year!

How about neutering your rant, send it to me and I'll post it?

Rich


> On Dec 26, 2013, at 21:04, Wally Bryant  wrote:
> 
> Jim Watts wrote:
>> Anyone down there right now with local knowledge? Wally?
> 
> The msg below was on the southbound list today, and spells out the situation 
> very well.  It's not nearly as funny as my rant, but will probably pass under 
> the radar.  (My little message probably would have put me on someone's 
> 'troublemaker' list.)
> 
>> 

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