Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft (Edd Schillay)

[Peter Fell via CnC-List]

The graph indicates it’s the other way round ... when the voltage difference is 
high, the amperage output is low. I don’t understand why they would produce a 
graph that goes out to a voltage differential of 10.5 volts! 

I kinda get what they are saying  but it’s almost like there’s a piece of 
the puzzle missing in the manual.

Peter Fell
Sidney, BC
Cygnet
C&C 27 MkIII


From: Knowles Rich 
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 5:28 PM
To: Peter Fell ; cnc-list Cnc-List 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft (Edd Schillay)

Hmmm… When the voltage difference between a charging source and battery being 
charged is high, the amperage flow is high as well, and vice versa.  

The Operation Manual for the EchoCharge says: 

"When the input voltage is 13.0/25.5 volts DC or higher, echo-charge 
automatically switches ON. The LED glows a steady green. When the input voltage 
is lower than 13.0/25.5 volts, the echo-charge automatically switches OFF, and 
the LED blinks green. The output voltage of echo- charge is limited to 
14.4/28.8 volts. When it reaches 14.4/28.8 volts, the charge current will 
decrease, maintaining a float condition. The starter battery will be fully 
charged without overcharging. 
No load current drain on the house bank is less than 50 milli-amps. 

If the input voltage is above 14.4 volts (or 28.8), output will be limited to a 
maximum of 14.4/28.8 volts. 


My interpretation is that when the output voltage of the echo-charge reaches 
14.4 volts, it assumes the start battery is full and lowers the applied voltage 
to float level, around 13.5. This reduces the charge current and keeps the 
electrolyte in the battery where it belongs.

I suggest looking at this paper for more insight into the three stage charging 
process.   
http://xantrex.com/documents/Inverter-Chargers/Freedom-458/MS20070308_3-stage-whitepaper.pdf

In any event, I have had an Echo Charge unit on my boat since before 2000 and 
have had the same start battery since then. The house batteries, two 400 series 
Surrette batteries, finally reached end of service  after 14 years. I have 
installed echo charge units as part of rewiring the primary systems on many 
boats over the years, and, other than a couple of units that died due to water 
exposure, they all perform very well and the owners don’t have to do any 
switching at all to maintain their battery systems.

Rich Knowles
Nanaimo, BC
INDIGO LF38
For sale in Halifax, NS.






On Mar 28, 2015, at 10:41, Peter Fell via CnC-List  
wrote:

It also says when the output voltage reaches 14.4 volts, it reduces the output 
current to maintain a float condition. There’s also a curve in the owner’s 
manual that relates difference in voltage between banks to output amperage. 
When the voltage difference is low, the amperage is high and it decreases as 
the voltage difference increases.
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2015 10:26 AM
To: C&C List ; Rich Knowles 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft (Edd Schillay)

Rich,
Great explanation but don't the other combiners turn off once the starting 
battery is greater than or equals to the house?  As was pointed out to me the 
echo-charge is simply a voltage follower with a limit of 14.4v.  At least one 
relay style combiner I've seem has an adjustable high voltage shutoff.
Josh
On Mar 28, 2015 10:51 AM, "Knowles Rich via CnC-List"  
wrote:

  I didn’t realize I’d start such a lengthy discussion. Sorry for the late 
reply. Work… 

  I like the EchoCharge unit for the following reasons:

  When you combine batteries for charging using an automatically actuated 
combiner, or by manual switching, all the batteries combined will receive the 
same voltage at their terminals. While each battery will absorb different 
amounts of amperage depending on their state of charge, a battery that is fully 
charged will start losing electrolyte if it is continuously provided excessive 
voltage when it is combined with a battery needing high voltage to efficiently 
recharge it.

  In a well designed system, the engine start battery should be reserved for 
just that and nothing else. Although it will need to deliver high amperage to 
the starter, it will do so for only a few seconds to start an engine in 
reasonable condition, and that energy can be quickly replenished, usually 
within a few minutes. An average size 27 or 24 fully charged battery in good 
condition should be capable of starting a 30 hp diesel many times before 
requiring recharging. Once recharged, the presence of excessive voltage as 
charging of house batteries continues will cause the start battery to lose 
electrolyte.  If this process is repeated often or long enough, the start 
battery will eventually lose enough fluid to be unable to start the engine. 
This situation is exacerbated by the use of smart alternator controllers and 
multi step AC chargers which cause higher charge voltages to be present than 
those produced by internally regulated a

Re: Stus-List Main sheet traveller track

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

Yes.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 29 March 2015 at 17:10, John McKay via CnC-List 
wrote:

> I pulled the main sheet traveller track on my C&C 33 Mk II to day.
>
> There is a metal strip under it.
>
> When I re-install it, should it be:
>
> Glass, metal strip, bedding compound, track
>
> or glass, bedding  compound, metal strip, track
>
> or glass, bedding compound, metal strip, bedding compound, track?
>
> I have not decided on what bedding compound to use. Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice.
>
> John on Enterprise
> Komoka
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Main sheet traveller track

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

And, of course, there is also the question of what the hell is under the glass? 
My 38 had a 1” to 1 ½” wide aluminum strip as a backing plate under the glass 
of the bridge deck. The original track was sealed with butyl (both under the 
track and on top of the backing plate) and had not leaked in 30+ years. I 
believe I either used Life Seal or 4200 for the replacement track, but can’t 
recall which.

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 8:39 PM
To: John McKay; CnClist
Subject: Re: Stus-List Main sheet traveller track

 

 

On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 7:10 PM, John McKay via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

or glass, bedding  compound, metal strip, track

 

You're sealing the glass.  Chamfer the fastener holes with a cone shaped 
grinding stone in a drill.  I would use Life Products LifeSeal but a good 
polysulfide would also work.

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

 

___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Main sheet traveller track

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 7:10 PM, John McKay via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

or glass, bedding  compound, metal strip, track


You're sealing the glass.  Chamfer the fastener holes with a cone shaped
grinding stone in a drill.  I would use Life Products LifeSeal but a good
polysulfide would also work.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft (Edd Schillay)

[Knowles Rich via CnC-List]

Hmmm… When the voltage difference between a charging source and battery being 
charged is high, the amperage flow is high as well, and vice versa. 

The Operation Manual for the EchoCharge says:

"When the input voltage is 13.0/25.5 volts DC or higher, echo-charge 
automatically switches ON. The LED glows a steady green. When the input voltage 
is lower than 13.0/25.5 volts, the echo-charge automatically switches OFF, and 
the LED blinks green. The output voltage of echo- charge is limited to 
14.4/28.8 volts. When it reaches 14.4/28.8 volts, the charge current will 
decrease, maintaining a float condition. The starter battery will be fully 
charged without overcharging.
No load current drain on the house bank is less than 50 milli-amps.

If the input voltage is above 14.4 volts (or 28.8), output will be limited to a 
maximum of 14.4/28.8 volts. 


My interpretation is that when the output voltage of the echo-charge reaches 
14.4 volts, it assumes the start battery is full and lowers the applied voltage 
to float level, around 13.5. This reduces the charge current and keeps the 
electrolyte in the battery where it belongs.

I suggest looking at this paper for more insight into the three stage charging 
process.   
http://xantrex.com/documents/Inverter-Chargers/Freedom-458/MS20070308_3-stage-whitepaper.pdf
 


In any event, I have had an Echo Charge unit on my boat since before 2000 and 
have had the same start battery since then. The house batteries, two 400 series 
Surrette batteries, finally reached end of service  after 14 years. I have 
installed echo charge units as part of rewiring the primary systems on many 
boats over the years, and, other than a couple of units that died due to water 
exposure, they all perform very well and the owners don’t have to do any 
switching at all to maintain their battery systems.

Rich Knowles
Nanaimo, BC
INDIGO LF38
For sale in Halifax, NS.





On Mar 28, 2015, at 10:41, Peter Fell via CnC-List  
wrote:

It also says when the output voltage reaches 14.4 volts, it reduces the output 
current to maintain a float condition. There’s also a curve in the owner’s 
manual that relates difference in voltage between banks to output amperage. 
When the voltage difference is low, the amperage is high and it decreases as 
the voltage difference increases.
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2015 10:26 AM
To: C&C List  ; Rich Knowles 

Subject: Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft (Edd Schillay)
 
Rich,
Great explanation but don't the other combiners turn off once the starting 
battery is greater than or equals to the house?  As was pointed out to me the 
echo-charge is simply a voltage follower with a limit of 14.4v.  At least one 
relay style combiner I've seem has an adjustable high voltage shutoff.
Josh
On Mar 28, 2015 10:51 AM, "Knowles Rich via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> I didn’t realize I’d start such a lengthy discussion. Sorry for the late 
> reply. Work…
>  
> I like the EchoCharge unit for the following reasons:
>  
> When you combine batteries for charging using an automatically actuated 
> combiner, or by manual switching, all the batteries combined will receive the 
> same voltage at their terminals. While each battery will absorb different 
> amounts of amperage depending on their state of charge, a battery that is 
> fully charged will start losing electrolyte if it is continuously provided 
> excessive voltage when it is combined with a battery needing high voltage to 
> efficiently recharge it.
>  
> In a well designed system, the engine start battery should be reserved for 
> just that and nothing else. Although it will need to deliver high amperage to 
> the starter, it will do so for only a few seconds to start an engine in 
> reasonable condition, and that energy can be quickly replenished, usually 
> within a few minutes. An average size 27 or 24 fully charged battery in good 
> condition should be capable of starting a 30 hp diesel many times before 
> requiring recharging. Once recharged, the presence of excessive voltage as 
> charging of house batteries continues will cause the start battery to lose 
> electrolyte.  If this process is repeated often or long enough, the start 
> battery will eventually lose enough fluid to be unable to start the engine. 
> This situation is exacerbated by the use of smart alternator controllers and 
> multi step AC chargers which cause higher charge voltages to be present than 
> those produced by internally regulated alternators and simple single voltage 
> chargers.
>  
> Directing all charge capacity direct to the house battery, and using the 
> EchoCharge or a similar device to maintain a single purposed, isolated engine 
> start battery, ensures that the start battery only receives enough cha

Stus-List Main sheet traveller track

[John McKay via CnC-List]

 I pulled the main sheet traveller track on my C&C 33 Mk II to day.
There is a metal strip under it.
When I re-install it, should it be:
Glass, metal strip, bedding compound, track
or glass, bedding  compound, metal strip, track
or glass, bedding compound, metal strip, bedding compound, track?
I have not decided on what bedding compound to use. Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
John on EnterpriseKomoka___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Hi Joe- Please educate me.  If I have a galvanic isolator, I don’t know it.  I 
am on a mooring most of the time, so probably don’t need one, but I 
periodically am plugged in at a dock, so is this important to have?  Am I 
correct that my Promariner charger or inverter does not include this function 
as well?  Thanks- Dave

On Mar 29, 2015, at 1:22 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
 wrote:

> You also left a galvanic isolator out of the diagram.
> See http://promariner.com/products/galvanic-isolation/prosafefs-series/
> These keep you from sharing your zinc out to the entire marina ;)
>  
> Joe Della Barba
> j...@dellabarba.com
> Coquina

Dr. David Knecht
Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology
Core Microscopy Facility Director
University of Connecticut   
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
Storrs, CT 06269
860-486-2200

___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I've been installing the Newmar GI's.  Had one on Touche' for years.

Match the amps.  For instance, I installed GI's on a boat with two 30 amp
shore power supplies.  I installed a GI-30 on each.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> You also left a galvanic isolator out of the diagram.
>
> See http://promariner.com/products/galvanic-isolation/prosafefs-series/
>
> These keep you from sharing your zinc out to the entire marina ;)
>
>
>
> Joe Della Barba
>
> j...@dellabarba.com
>
> Coquina
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe
> Della Barba via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 29, 2015 11:30 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft
>
>
>
> It has been a while since solar panels needed load dumps – modern
> controllers are much much better.
>
> That said, if it were me I would  NOT use the controller you have in your
> diagram. There are very poor versions of solar controllers all over Fleabay
> and Amazon that are inefficient at best. Morning Star controllers are much
> better than the cheap Chinese knockoffs. I have a low end Morningstar PWM
> controller that works quite well -
> http://www.amazon.com/SunGuard-SG-4-Controller-Regulator-Morningstar/dp/B000O3O0W2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1427642561&sr=8-2&keywords=morningstar+solar
> – and it isn’t even that expensive. I am considering moving to a more
> expensive MPPT controller and bigger panels. The MPPT controllers – if they
> are the real deal and not cheapies with a fake label – are quite a bit more
> efficient. See
> http://www.morningstarcorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Morningstar-Corporation-Traditional-PWM-vs-TrakStar-MPPT-Whitepaper-March-2015.pdf
> .
>
> I also would not try and use a “dual controller” to send solar to the
> start bank. 99% of the time the start battery gets about 2% discharged at
> engine start and is quickly refilled. Usually solar just feeds the house
> bank. If you want to charge the start bank, use the combiner. I don’t know
> if the charger you have on your diagram is the actual one you are going to
> use, but there are better ones out now. I have that same one and it is
> going on EBay. I got a Promariner Pronautic with a temperature sensor that
> is much better for gels. I could not find a sensor for the old TruCharge
> and it does not charge at a high enough voltage in the very cold weather we
> had even on the cold setting.
>
>
>
> Joe Della Barba
>
> j...@dellabarba.com
>
> Coquina
>
> C&C 35 MK I
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Josh Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 29, 2015 9:36 AM
> *To:* C&C List; Edd Schillay
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft
>
>
>
> Edd,
>
> You will probably need a "dump" load for the solar.  They are just
> resistive loads.  You can get 12v heater pads that you can attach to the
> water tanks or heater.  You could also install a block heater in the
> engine.  Most block heaters are designed to be plugged into a wall outlet
> but for a dump load the current and voltage are way lower than the rating
> on the heater.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Mar 26, 2015 5:30 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
>
>
> Thanks for all of the advice regarding rewiring the power systems on the
> Enterprise.
>
>
>
> Here is link to my draft setup:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15162917/ENTERPRISE/EnterpriseWiring-Draft.pdf
>
>
>
>
> Very crude I know and probably could be considered a mess by any
> respectful wiring diagram standards. Still, I would appreciate listers
> input or just to say “Edd, you got it all wrong. You idiot. Get off our C&C
> List, you amateur hack.”
>
>
>
> Thanks again. This list is the most valuable part of owning my C&C.
>
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Edd
>
>
>
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
>
> Starship Enterprise
>
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>
> City Island, NY
>
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List C&C 37plus Draft

[davidrisch75 via CnC-List]

DJ,

Corsair draws 7'6" and we are located in Marion, MA.  Never had a problem.  
There are a couple of harbors we cannot get into, but the tradeoff of her being 
a freight train upwqinf more than makes up for it.


David F. Risch.
1981 40

Please excuse brevity and possible typos...sent from my mobile device.

 Original message From: "D.J. Platt via 
CnC-List"  Date:03/29/2015  10:44 AM  
(GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: 
Stus-List C&C 37plus Draft 

Don't know about Cape Cod but way to deep for the ICW.

Cheers

david
Wanderer
C&C 32


From: Danny Haughey via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 10:44 AM
To: paradigmat...@gmail.com ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List C&C 37plus Draft


Hi Guys,

I've got a 37plus on my radar but the draft is 7'-3"  I think that may be a bit 
too deep, I don't think I'd be able to stay where I kept the Viking and I do 
like that location.  I also think it may limit some harbors out on the the 
islands in and around buzzard's bay...

Would anyone have any comments about the deep draft and it limitations around 
Cape Cod, south coast and the islands?

Danny
Boat Shopper
South Coast Massachusetts





___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

You also left a galvanic isolator out of the diagram. 

See http://promariner.com/products/galvanic-isolation/prosafefs-series/

These keep you from sharing your zinc out to the entire marina ;)

 

Joe Della Barba

j...@dellabarba.com  

Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joe Della
Barba via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 11:30 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft

 

It has been a while since solar panels needed load dumps - modern
controllers are much much better.

That said, if it were me I would  NOT use the controller you have in your
diagram. There are very poor versions of solar controllers all over Fleabay
and Amazon that are inefficient at best. Morning Star controllers are much
better than the cheap Chinese knockoffs. I have a low end Morningstar PWM
controller that works quite well -
http://www.amazon.com/SunGuard-SG-4-Controller-Regulator-Morningstar/dp/B000
O3O0W2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8

&qid=1427642561&sr=8-2&keywords=morningstar+solar - and it isn't even that
expensive. I am considering moving to a more expensive MPPT controller and
bigger panels. The MPPT controllers - if they are the real deal and not
cheapies with a fake label - are quite a bit more efficient. See
http://www.morningstarcorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Morningstar-Corpor
ation-Traditional-PWM-vs-TrakStar-MPPT-Whitepaper-March-2015.pdf .

I also would not try and use a "dual controller" to send solar to the start
bank. 99% of the time the start battery gets about 2% discharged at engine
start and is quickly refilled. Usually solar just feeds the house bank. If
you want to charge the start bank, use the combiner. I don't know if the
charger you have on your diagram is the actual one you are going to use, but
there are better ones out now. I have that same one and it is going on EBay.
I got a Promariner Pronautic with a temperature sensor that is much better
for gels. I could not find a sensor for the old TruCharge and it does not
charge at a high enough voltage in the very cold weather we had even on the
cold setting.

 

Joe Della Barba

j...@dellabarba.com  

Coquina 

C&C 35 MK I

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh
Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 9:36 AM
To: C&C List; Edd Schillay
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft

 

Edd,

You will probably need a "dump" load for the solar.  They are just resistive
loads.  You can get 12v heater pads that you can attach to the water tanks
or heater.  You could also install a block heater in the engine.  Most block
heaters are designed to be plugged into a wall outlet but for a dump load
the current and voltage are way lower than the rating on the heater.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Mar 26, 2015 5:30 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Listers,

 

Thanks for all of the advice regarding rewiring the power systems on the
Enterprise. 

 

Here is link to my draft setup:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15162917/ENTERPRISE/EnterpriseWiring-Dra
ft.pdf 

 

Very crude I know and probably could be considered a mess by any respectful
wiring diagram standards. Still, I would appreciate listers input or just to
say "Edd, you got it all wrong. You idiot. Get off our C&C List, you amateur
hack."

 

Thanks again. This list is the most valuable part of owning my C&C. 

 


All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log  

 









 

 

 


___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com  
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom
of page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

It has been a while since solar panels needed load dumps - modern
controllers are much much better.

That said, if it were me I would  NOT use the controller you have in your
diagram. There are very poor versions of solar controllers all over Fleabay
and Amazon that are inefficient at best. Morning Star controllers are much
better than the cheap Chinese knockoffs. I have a low end Morningstar PWM
controller that works quite well -
http://www.amazon.com/SunGuard-SG-4-Controller-Regulator-Morningstar/dp/B000
O3O0W2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8

&qid=1427642561&sr=8-2&keywords=morningstar+solar - and it isn't even that
expensive. I am considering moving to a more expensive MPPT controller and
bigger panels. The MPPT controllers - if they are the real deal and not
cheapies with a fake label - are quite a bit more efficient. See
http://www.morningstarcorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Morningstar-Corpor
ation-Traditional-PWM-vs-TrakStar-MPPT-Whitepaper-March-2015.pdf .

I also would not try and use a "dual controller" to send solar to the start
bank. 99% of the time the start battery gets about 2% discharged at engine
start and is quickly refilled. Usually solar just feeds the house bank. If
you want to charge the start bank, use the combiner. I don't know if the
charger you have on your diagram is the actual one you are going to use, but
there are better ones out now. I have that same one and it is going on EBay.
I got a Promariner Pronautic with a temperature sensor that is much better
for gels. I could not find a sensor for the old TruCharge and it does not
charge at a high enough voltage in the very cold weather we had even on the
cold setting.

 

Joe Della Barba

j...@dellabarba.com  

Coquina 

C&C 35 MK I

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh
Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 9:36 AM
To: C&C List; Edd Schillay
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft

 

Edd,

You will probably need a "dump" load for the solar.  They are just resistive
loads.  You can get 12v heater pads that you can attach to the water tanks
or heater.  You could also install a block heater in the engine.  Most block
heaters are designed to be plugged into a wall outlet but for a dump load
the current and voltage are way lower than the rating on the heater.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Mar 26, 2015 5:30 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Listers,

 

Thanks for all of the advice regarding rewiring the power systems on the
Enterprise. 

 

Here is link to my draft setup:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15162917/ENTERPRISE/EnterpriseWiring-Dra
ft.pdf 

 

Very crude I know and probably could be considered a mess by any respectful
wiring diagram standards. Still, I would appreciate listers input or just to
say "Edd, you got it all wrong. You idiot. Get off our C&C List, you amateur
hack."

 

Thanks again. This list is the most valuable part of owning my C&C. 

 


All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log  

 










 





 


___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com  
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom
of page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com



___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List C&C 37plus Draft

[D.J. Platt via CnC-List]

Don't know about Cape Cod but way to deep for the ICW.

Cheers

david
Wanderer
C&C 32


From: Danny Haughey via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 10:44 AM
To: paradigmat...@gmail.com ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List C&C 37plus Draft


Hi Guys,

I've got a 37plus on my radar but the draft is 7'-3"  I think that may be a bit 
too deep, I don't think I'd be able to stay where I kept the Viking and I do 
like that location.  I also think it may limit some harbors out on the the 
islands in and around buzzard's bay...

Would anyone have any comments about the deep draft and it limitations around 
Cape Cod, south coast and the islands?

Danny
Boat Shopper
South Coast Massachusetts





___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List C&C 24SK

[D.J. Platt via CnC-List]

...and the gen 1 C&C 25 Redline which was a keel centerboard.

http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/25redline/25redb1pg02.htm


From: Ken Heaton via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 2:31 PM
To: Jim Watts ; cnc-list 
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 24SK


There was a C&C SR 25 with a lifting keel.

http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/reviews/revsr25.htm



http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/25sr/25srb1p03.jpg



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_H2jDPy2O55I/TR9fytMVmqI/AWc/HGTw2j4xXW8/s1600/Ruckus%2Bunder%2Bspin%2Boff%2Bwave.jpg



Perhaps they are referring to that?


Ken H.


On 25 March 2015 at 11:37, Jim Watts via CnC-List  wrote:



  There is a question on Sailing Anarchy about a shoal-draft C&C 24. I have 
never seen mention of one, there is no reference in the tech. information or in 
the C&C brochures. Anyone? Bueller?

  http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=164629


  Jim Watts
  Paradigm Shift
  C&C 35 Mk III
  Victoria, BC


  ___

  Email address:
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com
  To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
of page at:
  http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com










___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Dave's paint job

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

Richard,

Thanks much for the feedback. I’m eagerly waiting for the hull to come out of 
the shed either tomorrow or Tuesday so I can see it in natural light.

I have to state right up front that my involvement in the painting project has 
been to take pictures and write cheques. Many of the ideas and much of the will 
to continue with this project go to List members.

First, I shamelessly stole the color scheme, less the gold shear stripe, from 
Harry Hallgring’s Northeast 39 paint job. I was planning on doing the hull in 
Jade Mist Green but after seeing Harry’s project pictures and dropping by his 
slip when I delivered a J/120 to Newport RI last June I ditched the green paint 
plans instantly.

Two neighbors had they’re hulls painted by the local yard and after seeing the 
quality of work and the pricing, I quickly ditched plans calling for me to 
paint the hull.

Thanks to Martin DeYoung and his hardware re-bed project on “Calypso” for 
making me realize that I wasn’t completely off my meds (like a lot of my 
sailing friends think I am…) for pulling all the deck hardware and moving on 
with fixing cracks and leaks and then painting the decks.

Shout-outs to Jake Brodersen for showing both me AND the local boatyard that 
bad things won’t happen if the keel is removed; Bob Boyer for allowing me to 
peek over his shoulder as he posts on his blog about prepping his LF 38 for 
cruising; Rick Brass for some good ideas on storage and systems; Dennis C of 
Touché for little professional tips. There are many, many others on this list 
who have provided valuable information.

And finally, to the King of boat rebuild projects, Wally Bryant for showing me 
that there is light at the end of the (very long) tunnel…

Best,
Dave Godwin
1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit 
> On Mar 29, 2015, at 12:15 AM, Richard N. Bush via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> For anyone contemplating repainting their hull, or if you want to see how it 
> should be done, check out Dave Godin's blog at 
> http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/ 
>  
> The quality of this paint job is amazing, congrats, Dave.   
>  
> Richard
> 1985 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596;
>  
> 
> Richard N. Bush 
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
> 502-584-7255
>  
> . <>   
>  
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com  To change your list 
> preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: 
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 

___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Edd,

You will probably need a "dump" load for the solar.  They are just
resistive loads.  You can get 12v heater pads that you can attach to the
water tanks or heater.  You could also install a block heater in the
engine.  Most block heaters are designed to be plugged into a wall outlet
but for a dump load the current and voltage are way lower than the rating
on the heater.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Mar 26, 2015 5:30 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Listers,
>
> Thanks for all of the advice regarding rewiring the power systems on the
> Enterprise.
>
> Here is link to my draft setup:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15162917/ENTERPRISE/EnterpriseWiring-Draft.pdf
>
>
> Very crude I know and probably could be considered a mess by any
> respectful wiring diagram standards. Still, I would appreciate listers
> input or just to say "Edd, you got it all wrong. You idiot. Get off our C&C
> List, you amateur hack."
>
> Thanks again. This list is the most valuable part of owning my C&C.
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft (Edd Schillay)

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

The Blue Sea ACR that I have has a connect voltage and disconnect voltage.
This prevents relay chatter and does hold the connection at float levels.


Relay Contact Position



Combine 30 sec

13.6V DC


Open 10 sec

12.35V DC


Open 30 sec

12.75V DC


 

 

 

 

Joe Della Barba

j...@dellabarba.com  

Coquina

C&C 35 MK I

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh
Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2015 2:10 PM
To: Peter Fell; C&C List
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft (Edd Schillay)

 

Wouldn't a relay also maintain float?  The relays aren't supposed to turn on
until the house battery is full (~13.5v) so when the relay closes the
starting battery is actually to largest "load" on the charger.  Right?

Josh

On Mar 28, 2015 1:42 PM, "Peter Fell via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

It also says when the output voltage reaches 14.4 volts, it reduces the
output current to maintain a float condition. There's also a curve in the
owner's manual that relates difference in voltage between banks to output
amperage. When the voltage difference is low, the amperage is high and it
decreases as the voltage difference increases.

From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List   

Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2015 10:26 AM

To: C  &C List ; Rich Knowles
  

Subject: Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft (Edd Schillay)

 

Rich,

Great explanation but don't the other combiners turn off once the starting
battery is greater than or equals to the house?  As was pointed out to me
the echo-charge is simply a voltage follower with a limit of 14.4v.  At
least one relay style combiner I've seem has an adjustable high voltage
shutoff.

Josh

On Mar 28, 2015 10:51 AM, "Knowles Rich via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

I didn't realize I'd start such a lengthy discussion. Sorry for the late
reply. Work. 

 

I like the EchoCharge unit for the following reasons:

 

When you combine batteries for charging using an automatically actuated
combiner, or by manual switching, all the batteries combined will receive
the same voltage at their terminals. While each battery will absorb
different amounts of amperage depending on their state of charge, a battery
that is fully charged will start losing electrolyte if it is continuously
provided excessive voltage when it is combined with a battery needing high
voltage to efficiently recharge it.

 

In a well designed system, the engine start battery should be reserved for
just that and nothing else. Although it will need to deliver high amperage
to the starter, it will do so for only a few seconds to start an engine in
reasonable condition, and that energy can be quickly replenished, usually
within a few minutes. An average size 27 or 24 fully charged battery in good
condition should be capable of starting a 30 hp diesel many times before
requiring recharging. Once recharged, the presence of excessive voltage as
charging of house batteries continues will cause the start battery to lose
electrolyte.  If this process is repeated often or long enough, the start
battery will eventually lose enough fluid to be unable to start the engine.
This situation is exacerbated by the use of smart alternator controllers and
multi step AC chargers which cause higher charge voltages to be present than
those produced by internally regulated alternators and simple single voltage
chargers. 

 

Directing all charge capacity direct to the house battery, and using the
EchoCharge or a similar device to maintain a single purposed, isolated
engine start battery, ensures that the start battery only receives enough
charge voltage to recharge it to full capacity. Barring a failure, there
will always be reliable power to start the engine. Switching should be
provided to enable emergency use of the house battery to start the engine or
the engine start battery to provide house power.

 

I have also used EchoCharge units to provide charge power to windlass
batteries installed in the bow near the windlass. That saves a stack of
money for expensive heavy copper wires to feed the windlass from the main
house battery. If you install an EchoCharge, make sure it is in a dry,
ventilated, relatively cool location. It is not waterproof, the principal
cause for failure I have seen.

 

Multiple output AC chargers are OK to use but should be carefully chosen and
installed. If batteries are in parallel, only one charge leg should be
connected to that bank. If an automatic combiner is used, only one battery
charging source is required. For systems I design, I use a single output
smart charger to charge the house battery and rely on devices such as the
EchoCharge to distribute charge current as needed to start and other
auxiliary batteries, one device for each battery. That charger is connected
to the same point in the system as the alternat

Re: Stus-List New Instruments

[John McKay via CnC-List]

I installed the Garmin wind, depth and a GPS receiver two years ago. We turned 
the power on and much to my amazement, everything worked. I had imagined hours 
calibrating and on the phone with their tech support.My only caution is to make 
sure the cups on the anemometer are on securely. I thought they were but the 
second time out, there was not wind data, looked up, no cups so it was up the 
mast to install new cups. you push them on until they feel secure, then push 
again. there is a wire clip that needs to lock the cups onto the head unit.
John  


 On Saturday, March 28, 2015 8:26 AM, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List 
 wrote:
   

 #yiv5847862743 #yiv5847862743 -- _filtered #yiv5847862743 
{font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5847862743 
{panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5847862743 
{font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5847862743 
{font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv5847862743 
#yiv5847862743 p.yiv5847862743MsoNormal, #yiv5847862743 
li.yiv5847862743MsoNormal, #yiv5847862743 div.yiv5847862743MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5847862743 a:link, 
#yiv5847862743 span.yiv5847862743MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5847862743 a:visited, #yiv5847862743 
span.yiv5847862743MsoHyperlinkFollowed 
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5847862743 
span.yiv5847862743EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv5847862743 
.yiv5847862743MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv5847862743 
{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv5847862743 div.yiv5847862743WordSection1 
{}#yiv5847862743 +1 Garmin.    Garmin still leads with PGN coverage, ease of 
use, functionality and you don’t need to buy additional little black boxes to 
tie in other components.  I plugged in a B&G display and it all just worked.   
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Sheer 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 4:55 PM
To: Cnc-list CNC Boat Owners
Subject: Stus-List New Instruments  When I bought Pegathy, I got a Garmin 421s 
chartplotter. It was small enough to be unobtrusive and had as many (maybe 
more) pixels than the larger screens. It will display any combination of up to 
4 (I think) instruments on the NMEA 2000 bus on a ribbon on the chart screen. 
The next year, I bought a gmi10 package with a masthead anemometer, temperature 
and pressure sensor and a depth  and water temp sensor. The gmi 10 will display 
up to 4 instruments at once in user defined formats with user defined alarm 
limits for each. It also allows you to create a bunch of custom combinations 
which can be stored and accessed with the push of a button, or maybe a few 
pushes if you define a bunch of screens. There are other good features as well. 
  Replaced four instrument heads with one. Works for me, except that I had to 
cover the holes. It's backed up by the chart plotter, so I'm more comfortable 
with having a single head. Just bought a Lowrance NMEA 2000 VHF/AIS receiver 
which is supposed to communicate with the chartplotter. Haven't tried it yet. 
Still waiting for warm enough weather to pain the bottom.  Dan SheerPegathy LF 
38Rock Creek off the Patapsco  
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com



  ___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com