Re: Stus-List 34+ Idler Pulleys and Cabin Top Compression (Kevin Driscoll)

[David Risch via CnC-List]

Overt problems may not be an issue...but if the owner showed a boat with those 
obvious flaws, I can only think of the things not obvious and problematic.  
Run.   Too many good examples out there and worth the wait to find one.

Sent from my Android. Please forgive typos. Thank you.


From: CnC-List  on behalf of Francois Rivard via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 1:42:11 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Francois Rivard 
Subject: Stus-List 34+ Idler Pulleys and Cabin Top Compression (Kevin Driscoll)

Hi Kevin

I didn't see anything to worry about either. Ours is the wing keel version and 
we love it.  To Steve's comment: It's fast as heck. On our lake,  (No wave 
surfing) I've seen sustained 8+ knots many times with bouts in the low 9's.  I 
saw 9 momentarily in just 14 knots wind last fall with our slick bottom (Pettit 
Black Widow PTFE paint) and new sails.

It's very competitive on the race course.  We win regularly and the PHRF 
committee even felt it was "too fast" and came to my dock to measure everything 
when we first started racing. Local PHRF is 108 adjusted for the 135 genoa.

Accommodations wise the cabin prett much as roomy and as comfy as my friends' 
newer 38 ft Beneteau Special Edition (Beneteau copied the layout) but much 
nicer with lots of beautiful teak wood everywhere instead of fake stuff.  
Compared to older boats it's roomier / more comfortable than many 40 footers...

About the "Tenderness".  It's a bit over-canvassed for speed and fun but it's 
not tender. I don't reef anything until I get to 18-20 sustained and then 
rolling 15-20% off the 135 genoa takes the edge off when close hauled / hard on 
the wind .  I have not reefed the main in a few years.  It takes 22-25 
sustained to even start considering reefing the main and that would be close 
hauled / hard on the wind only, all other points of sails it's all out way past 
25 knots. When the boat speed gets above 8 knots you do have to keep a close 
eye on things and ease a little in the puffs to flatten the boat and get the 
most speed boost.  The weather helm is very adjustable simply by setting the 
rake.  I took a fair amount of rake off the setup with my new sails, the new 
135 genoa pulls like a freight train and I had to loosen up the bow.

Some of the "Tenderness" might be attributed to older sails.  It was a 
noticeably more tender with the old sails but with the new ones, It just flat 
rocks!  Expect to spend $8,500 + on a decent set of custom made sails and 
somewhere between $6,000 - 7,000 bucks for chinese off the rack stuff.

On the concerns:

1) The window thing is no big deal, mine has it too. I think it's related to 
the windows "Pulling" on it in cold weather.  If you look in the crack, the 
lining is made out of Styrofoam... I'm planning on capping it with a nice teak 
strip as trim and to restore the shearing strength. You can also just glue it 
back, 5 minutes epoxy will work fine there.  Most cyanoacrylate glues (CA or 
'Crazy Glue type) will dissolve the foam.

2) The steering bracket is "Regular thing" caused by Edson's terrible material 
choice of mild steel. You can contact Chuck Scheafer about a replacement.  He 
had a nice stainless one made by Garhauer a few years back. Mine is still fine 
as the boat has been in fresh water most of its life.

3) Most or all of the cabin top is not cored.  I have removed a couple dodger 
fittings near the companion way / "business area" where the winches and main 
traveler are located,  I checked the holes carefully, and was happy to see that 
it's solid fiberglass.

4) The cooling system is no biggie. It's one of the few things that are easy to 
reach and work on in the engine compartment.  I would just replace the pump and 
all the hoses to be on the safe side.  The heat exchanger can be easily cleaned 
with wood dowels, there are access caps on both ends.  The whole thing is a 
couple hours' work tops.

I hope that works, PM me for more details if you want.

Regards,

Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA




___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List 34+ Idler Pulleys and Cabin Top Compression (Kevin Driscoll)

[Francois Rivard via CnC-List]

Hi Kevin

I didn't see anything to worry about either. Ours is the wing keel version
and we love it.  To Steve's comment: It's fast as heck. On our lake,  (No
wave surfing) I've seen sustained 8+ knots many times with bouts in the low
9's.  I saw 9 momentarily in just 14 knots wind last fall with our slick
bottom (Pettit Black Widow PTFE paint) and new sails.

It's very competitive on the race course.  We win regularly and the PHRF
committee even felt it was "too fast" and came to my dock to measure
everything when we first started racing. Local PHRF is 108 adjusted for the
135 genoa.

Accommodations wise the cabin prett much as roomy and as comfy as my
friends' newer 38 ft Beneteau Special Edition (Beneteau copied the layout)
but much nicer with lots of beautiful teak wood everywhere instead of fake
stuff.  Compared to older boats it's roomier / more comfortable than many
40 footers...

About the "Tenderness".  It's a bit over-canvassed for speed and fun but
it's not tender. I don't reef anything until I get to 18-20 sustained and
then rolling 15-20% off the 135 genoa takes the edge off when close hauled
/ hard on the wind .  I have not reefed the main in a few years.  It takes
22-25 sustained to even start considering reefing the main and that would
be close hauled / hard on the wind only, all other points of sails it's all
out way past 25 knots. When the boat speed gets above 8 knots you do have
to keep a close eye on things and ease a little in the puffs to flatten the
boat and get the most speed boost.  The weather helm is very adjustable
simply by setting the rake.  I took a fair amount of rake off the setup
with my new sails, the new 135 genoa pulls like a freight train and I had
to loosen up the bow.

Some of the "Tenderness" might be attributed to older sails.  It was a
noticeably more tender with the old sails but with the new ones, It just
flat rocks!  Expect to spend $8,500 + on a decent set of custom made sails
and somewhere between $6,000 - 7,000 bucks for chinese off the rack stuff.

On the concerns:

1) The window thing is no big deal, mine has it too. I think it's related
to the windows "Pulling" on it in cold weather.  If you look in the crack,
the lining is made out of Styrofoam... I'm planning on capping it with a
nice teak strip as trim and to restore the shearing strength. You can also
just glue it back, 5 minutes epoxy will work fine there.  Most
cyanoacrylate glues (CA or 'Crazy Glue type) will dissolve the foam.

2) The steering bracket is "Regular thing" caused by Edson's terrible
material choice of mild steel. You can contact Chuck Scheafer about a
replacement.  He had a nice stainless one made by Garhauer a few years
back. Mine is still fine as the boat has been in fresh water most of its
life.

3) Most or all of the cabin top is not cored.  I have removed a couple
dodger fittings near the companion way / "business area" where the winches
and main traveler are located,  I checked the holes carefully, and was
happy to see that it's solid fiberglass.

4) The cooling system is no biggie. It's one of the few things that are
easy to reach and work on in the engine compartment.  I would just replace
the pump and all the hoses to be on the safe side.  The heat exchanger can
be easily cleaned with wood dowels, there are access caps on both ends.
The whole thing is a couple hours' work tops.

I hope that works, PM me for more details if you want.

Regards,

Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List 34+ Idler Pulleys and Cabin Top Compression

[Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List]

 Thanks again for perspectives.
 Re: 34+/ 36xl use for us. For background, we own a C 30 mkII, which is
probably the most tender boat under the brand, the 30-1 being the stiffest.
Any boat I sail otherwise is going to be stiffer and given the 34+/36xl's
with a 7'-3" draft and bulb, and a 39% ballast ratio, I am surprised to
hear the boat being overly tender, though I understand it has generous sail
area. Mostly our sailing consists of Puget Sound gunkholing with occasional
double handed club racing and less frequent Pacific offshore work, either
single or double handed. I wouldn't consider us bluewater cruisers since we
are not retired and  unlikely to weigh the boat down with all our
shore-side possessions etc. A passage down the west coast or the Single
Handed Transpac race are on my bucket list, so it would be nice not to own
a boat that precludes either of those things, but we are not buying around
those parameters either. I race somewhat frequently inshore and offshore on
a variety of boats with what I would consider powerful rigs so I am not too
worried about the sail area of the 34+ or 36xl. That being said, I would be
interested to hear from owners with the 7'3" draft and decent sails, if
there is some reason the boat is more tender than I would expect.

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 7:20 AM Stephen Thorne via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I’ve owned Deja Vu for 10 years and raced & cruised all over and across
> the Gulf of Mexico, many times.  I always had a full crew 3 + 1 for
> offshore sailing.  We did experience a failure of the steering system idler
> plate and ended up completely rebuilding the steering system.  Lesson
> learned - open up the steering system on any boat with an Edson steering
> gear and check/replace pets including cables and plate.
>
> In light air the boat is fast and responsive but it’s a skill set that
> needs to be developed to get maximum performance from the boat.  In heavy
> air 18-20 or more, something magical happens with this boat. While most
> sailboats mover faster in stronger winds, that’s not what I’m talking
> about.  This design sails way past its parameters for speed off the wind
> with the main single reefed & a 110 forward.  I think maximum speed is
> rated at 8.1 knts but I’ve got many anecdotal stories/examples of sustained
> speeds > 10 knts and not simply running down waves.  Sustained over hours
> of heavy weather sailing.  The part that’s so impressive is that this hull
> design (wing keel) and deep rudder etc, the steering is controlled and
> precise.
>
> I think the wing keel (many pros & cons) has an amplified dampening effect
> at these speeds resulting in excellent steering characteristics in big wind
> sailing.  Really would like to hear from Rob Ball on this one.
>
> Just my two cents
>
> Stephen Thorne
> C+ Deja Vu
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:21 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I have owned a 34+ for about 7 years and can comment on your intended
>> use.  First, my boat had none of the issues you describe, so those are not
>> common problems from my perspecitve.  I have done alot of work on my boat,
>> but none structural or because of failures or age.  The previous owners of
>> my boat took good care of her and I am guessing yours did not.  All the
>> changes I made to my boat were to improve an already great boat.  I could
>> have done none of them and been happily sailing her.   I love my boat and
>> it has been the perfect boat for my wife and I.  It is very competitive
>> racing and very comfortable cruising.  I have not seen a boat of her size
>> that I would trade for.  I moved from a 34 and the extra space and improved
>> design makes the 34+ a wonderful racer/cruiser.  We cruise locally around
>> Long Island Sound and I frequently sail and race her single-handed or
>> short-handed.
>> That being said, I do not believe it is the boat for what you describe as
>> your target adventures.  I agree with Josh- the boat is easily
>> overpowered.  Yes, you can reef early and often, but I would not want to be
>> out on the ocean with two youngsters on my boat.  I have chartered a number
>> of boats in the Caribbean that I have sailed in 30+ knots of wind and felt
>> totally comfortable and under control with nearly full sail.  My boat in 25
>> knots feels overpowered no matter what sail plan is used (when short
>> handed).  I have sailed her in 25 knots of wind with only a 100% genoa and
>> felt overpowered.  I have the wing keel, and that may be a factor, but I
>> don’t think the boat was designed with blue water cruising in mind.  She is
>> fast in light air races because of that design.  If the time came when I
>> wanted to do more blue water sailing, I would sell the boat and look for
>> something more appropriate.  Dave
>>
>>
>> On Feb 25, 2020, at 9:11 PM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Appreciate everyone's advice as always! I am not sure at this point if 

Re: Stus-List 34+ Idler Pulleys and Cabin Top Compression

[Stephen Thorne via CnC-List]

I’ve owned Deja Vu for 10 years and raced & cruised all over and across the
Gulf of Mexico, many times.  I always had a full crew 3 + 1 for offshore
sailing.  We did experience a failure of the steering system idler plate
and ended up completely rebuilding the steering system.  Lesson learned -
open up the steering system on any boat with an Edson steering gear and
check/replace pets including cables and plate.

In light air the boat is fast and responsive but it’s a skill set that
needs to be developed to get maximum performance from the boat.  In heavy
air 18-20 or more, something magical happens with this boat. While most
sailboats mover faster in stronger winds, that’s not what I’m talking
about.  This design sails way past its parameters for speed off the wind
with the main single reefed & a 110 forward.  I think maximum speed is
rated at 8.1 knts but I’ve got many anecdotal stories/examples of sustained
speeds > 10 knts and not simply running down waves.  Sustained over hours
of heavy weather sailing.  The part that’s so impressive is that this hull
design (wing keel) and deep rudder etc, the steering is controlled and
precise.

I think the wing keel (many pros & cons) has an amplified dampening effect
at these speeds resulting in excellent steering characteristics in big wind
sailing.  Really would like to hear from Rob Ball on this one.

Just my two cents

Stephen Thorne
C+ Deja Vu

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:21 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I have owned a 34+ for about 7 years and can comment on your intended
> use.  First, my boat had none of the issues you describe, so those are not
> common problems from my perspecitve.  I have done alot of work on my boat,
> but none structural or because of failures or age.  The previous owners of
> my boat took good care of her and I am guessing yours did not.  All the
> changes I made to my boat were to improve an already great boat.  I could
> have done none of them and been happily sailing her.   I love my boat and
> it has been the perfect boat for my wife and I.  It is very competitive
> racing and very comfortable cruising.  I have not seen a boat of her size
> that I would trade for.  I moved from a 34 and the extra space and improved
> design makes the 34+ a wonderful racer/cruiser.  We cruise locally around
> Long Island Sound and I frequently sail and race her single-handed or
> short-handed.
> That being said, I do not believe it is the boat for what you describe as
> your target adventures.  I agree with Josh- the boat is easily
> overpowered.  Yes, you can reef early and often, but I would not want to be
> out on the ocean with two youngsters on my boat.  I have chartered a number
> of boats in the Caribbean that I have sailed in 30+ knots of wind and felt
> totally comfortable and under control with nearly full sail.  My boat in 25
> knots feels overpowered no matter what sail plan is used (when short
> handed).  I have sailed her in 25 knots of wind with only a 100% genoa and
> felt overpowered.  I have the wing keel, and that may be a factor, but I
> don’t think the boat was designed with blue water cruising in mind.  She is
> fast in light air races because of that design.  If the time came when I
> wanted to do more blue water sailing, I would sell the boat and look for
> something more appropriate.  Dave
>
>
> On Feb 25, 2020, at 9:11 PM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Appreciate everyone's advice as always! I am not sure at this point if we
> would even make a very low offer for fear it would be accepted. The reality
> is we love our 30-2, but with the amount of weekends we spend on her (Gig
> Harbor currently) with a 3 year old and 5 year old, we feel like we are
> cramped on space. I would also like a bigger stiffer boat that I could race
> a bit more and be relatively comfortable on for moderate off shore passages
> say from  Washington to San Francisco and Mexico etc. The 34+/36xl has
> always felt about right for us. I think we are going to wait for another
> and compromise a bit less. With our careers and a couple of hands on rental
> properties, my wife is nervous about a project boat and I think I am
> beginning to feel the same way.
> Thanks!
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 5:05 PM Fred Hazzard via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Good strategy to get something before paying for a survey.  Then when
>> surveys come back you be able to negotiate further.
>>
>> Fred Hazzard
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 4:20 PM bwhitmore via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> While I agree with,  and respect Josh, having done the steering work on
>>> our 37/40+ with similar but not as bad a problem, plan on a minimum of 3
>>> days work to pull & replace the idler plate.  Given your comments about the
>>> condition, you need to plan on a bunch of other issues you can't see as of
>>> now.  Get a GOOD surveyor, but weigh the cost of the survey compared to
>>> 

Re: Stus-List 34+ Idler Pulleys and Cabin Top Compression

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I have owned a 34+ for about 7 years and can comment on your intended use.  
First, my boat had none of the issues you describe, so those are not common 
problems from my perspecitve.  I have done alot of work on my boat, but none 
structural or because of failures or age.  The previous owners of my boat took 
good care of her and I am guessing yours did not.  All the changes I made to my 
boat were to improve an already great boat.  I could have done none of them and 
been happily sailing her.   I love my boat and it has been the perfect boat for 
my wife and I.  It is very competitive racing and very comfortable cruising.  I 
have not seen a boat of her size that I would trade for.  I moved from a 34 and 
the extra space and improved design makes the 34+ a wonderful racer/cruiser.  
We cruise locally around Long Island Sound and I frequently sail and race her 
single-handed or short-handed.  
That being said, I do not believe it is the boat for what you describe as your 
target adventures.  I agree with Josh- the boat is easily overpowered.  Yes, 
you can reef early and often, but I would not want to be out on the ocean with 
two youngsters on my boat.  I have chartered a number of boats in the Caribbean 
that I have sailed in 30+ knots of wind and felt totally comfortable and under 
control with nearly full sail.  My boat in 25 knots feels overpowered no matter 
what sail plan is used (when short handed).  I have sailed her in 25 knots of 
wind with only a 100% genoa and felt overpowered.  I have the wing keel, and 
that may be a factor, but I don’t think the boat was designed with blue water 
cruising in mind.  She is fast in light air races because of that design.  If 
the time came when I wanted to do more blue water sailing, I would sell the 
boat and look for something more appropriate.  Dave

> On Feb 25, 2020, at 9:11 PM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Appreciate everyone's advice as always! I am not sure at this point if we 
> would even make a very low offer for fear it would be accepted. The reality 
> is we love our 30-2, but with the amount of weekends we spend on her (Gig 
> Harbor currently) with a 3 year old and 5 year old, we feel like we are 
> cramped on space. I would also like a bigger stiffer boat that I could race a 
> bit more and be relatively comfortable on for moderate off shore passages say 
> from  Washington to San Francisco and Mexico etc. The 34+/36xl has always 
> felt about right for us. I think we are going to wait for another and 
> compromise a bit less. With our careers and a couple of hands on rental 
> properties, my wife is nervous about a project boat and I think I am 
> beginning to feel the same way. 
> Thanks!
> 
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 5:05 PM Fred Hazzard via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> Good strategy to get something before paying for a survey.  Then when surveys 
> come back you be able to negotiate further. 
> 
> Fred Hazzard 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 4:20 PM bwhitmore via CnC-List  > wrote:
> While I agree with,  and respect Josh, having done the steering work on our 
> 37/40+ with similar but not as bad a problem, plan on a minimum of 3 days 
> work to pull & replace the idler plate.  Given your comments about the 
> condition, you need to plan on a bunch of other issues you can't see as of 
> now.  Get a GOOD surveyor, but weigh the cost of the survey compared to your 
> price point in both time and effort to get it into the condition you'll want 
> and need. You might even run the issues past the owner now, saying 
> "Realistically, x, y, and z need repair, and that alone totals $xx,xxx.  Will 
> you be willing to take that and more off to get it back to a boat worth 
> $yy,yyy?  If not, walk away before even getting the survey.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List  >
> Date: 2/25/20 2:20 PM (GMT-06:00)
> To: C List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Cc: Josh Muckley mailto:muckl...@gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 34+ Idler Pulleys and Cabin Top Compression
> 
> The original carbon steel idler is no longer available from edson.  You'd 
> have to make modifications to the deck in order to replace.  I thought I 
> remembered the idler being ~$400.  Maybe I'm mistaken.  The replacement 
> cables are ~$100.  The work isn't that hard but it is a little bit of a PITA.
> 
> The window delamination would not seriously concern me. 
> 
> The engine water flow shouldn't be too hard to overcome.  Sometimes an old 
> impeller just takes on a set and fails to prime itself.
> 
> The sails are gonna set you back ~$3500 to $5000 each to replace.
> 
> Upholstery is gonna be expensive.  $5k to $10k
> 
> If it's the boat you want and you can get a discount then I really haven't 
> heard too much that would discourage me.  I'm a risk taker and a DIYerso 
> YMMV.
> 
> 

Re: Stus-List 34+ Idler Pulleys and Cabin Top Compression

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I'm not sure the 34+ is the direction you want to go for a stiffer boat.  I
might be wrong but with my 37+, I regularly find myself with too much
sail.  With a full crew and capable hands its manageable.  With only 2
adults, and one busy taking care of the kidos, there are fewer options for
sail management.

Josh

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 21:12 Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Appreciate everyone's advice as always! I am not sure at this point if we
> would even make a very low offer for fear it would be accepted. The reality
> is we love our 30-2, but with the amount of weekends we spend on her (Gig
> Harbor currently) with a 3 year old and 5 year old, we feel like we are
> cramped on space. I would also like a bigger stiffer boat that I could race
> a bit more and be relatively comfortable on for moderate off shore passages
> say from  Washington to San Francisco and Mexico etc. The 34+/36xl has
> always felt about right for us. I think we are going to wait for another
> and compromise a bit less. With our careers and a couple of hands on rental
> properties, my wife is nervous about a project boat and I think I am
> beginning to feel the same way.
> Thanks!
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 5:05 PM Fred Hazzard via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Good strategy to get something before paying for a survey.  Then when
>> surveys come back you be able to negotiate further.
>>
>> Fred Hazzard
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 4:20 PM bwhitmore via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> While I agree with,  and respect Josh, having done the steering work on
>>> our 37/40+ with similar but not as bad a problem, plan on a minimum of 3
>>> days work to pull & replace the idler plate.  Given your comments about the
>>> condition, you need to plan on a bunch of other issues you can't see as of
>>> now.  Get a GOOD surveyor, but weigh the cost of the survey compared to
>>> your price point in both time and effort to get it into the condition
>>> you'll want and need. You might even run the issues past the owner now,
>>> saying "Realistically, x, y, and z need repair, and that alone totals
>>> $xx,xxx.  Will you be willing to take that and more off to get it back to a
>>> boat worth $yy,yyy?  If not, walk away before even getting the survey.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>>>
>>>
>>>  Original message 
>>> From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>>> Date: 2/25/20 2:20 PM (GMT-06:00)
>>> To: C List 
>>> Cc: Josh Muckley 
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List 34+ Idler Pulleys and Cabin Top Compression
>>>
>>> The original carbon steel idler is no longer available from edson.
>>> You'd have to make modifications to the deck in order to replace.  I
>>> thought I remembered the idler being ~$400.  Maybe I'm mistaken.  The
>>> replacement cables are ~$100.  The work isn't that hard but it is a
>>> little bit of a PITA.
>>>
>>> The window delamination would not seriously concern me.
>>>
>>> The engine water flow shouldn't be too hard to overcome.  Sometimes an
>>> old impeller just takes on a set and fails to prime itself.
>>>
>>> The sails are gonna set you back ~$3500 to $5000 each to replace.
>>>
>>> Upholstery is gonna be expensive.  $5k to $10k
>>>
>>> If it's the boat you want and you can get a discount then I really
>>> haven't heard too much that would discourage me.  I'm a risk taker and a
>>> DIYerso YMMV.
>>>
>>> Josh Muckley
>>> S/V Sea Hawk
>>> 1989 C 37+
>>> Solomons, MD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 17:52 Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 List,
 We looked at a 1990 34+ this weekend and I could use your input on two
 items that were most concerning. The boat was much more of a project boat
 than we anticipated unfortunately. We hoped to get out for a sail, but it's
 not leaving the slip before some work is done. So obvious issues are below
 and photos here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/V5YhFQzmjZwnCytf6

1. *Heavy Rusting at base of the steering pedestal*: When I first
got on board and noticed the steering was quite stiff and a bit 
 'grinding.'
I thought the steering column lock was on. However, since the idler 
 pulleys
and quadrant are above the deck on the 34+ it was easy to see a pile of
large and significant flakes of rust at the base of the pedestal where 
 the
cables run aft to the quadrant. This was visible after the quadrant 
 cover
that is part of the cockpit sole was lifted. The cables were also not 
 even
seated on the quadrant or the pulleys and were grinding on the gel 
 coat. I
have since determined that this rust must have been from the idler 
 plate.
The cables were also shot as you might expect, with broken strands. This
appears to be about $700 or so in materials for cables and a new idle
plates and pulleys. Question is,