Stus-List Re: Encapsulating keel

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

Doug,

The keel on my LF38 was encapsulated by a previous owner.  I do not know the 
detail of how it was done, but it appears the it was fiberglass wrapped with 
epoxy but was then faired with polyester fairing.   I know this because when I 
first hauled her out, the keel was loaded with blisters whereas the rest of the 
hull had none.  The blisters were only in the fairing.  I assumed that 
polyester fairing was used to make it easier to sand the fairing.   It was a 
bad idea, so don’t let anyone try to convince you to fair with a polyester 
fairing.  I ended up grounding off all of the fairing and I found the 
underlying epoxied fiberglass in rock solid shape.  I then redid the fairing 
using epoxy mixed with 50-50 colloidal silica & 3M glass spheres. And easily 
sanded it smooth with an orbital sander.  It has been over 8 years and is still 
in perfect shape.   That said, having owned another C previously, and 
experienced the smile, I do check the keel bolts out of habit but have had no 
issues.  

The keel does have a large bolt head sticking out of it.  It is basically right 
in the center on one side. It looks like someone drilled a hole and threaded 
the bolt in.  I left it in place assuming that it was possibly done for a 
lightning ground.   To be clear, this is not a garboard drain.   

I have a write up on my blog about this:  
http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/p/projects.html   Go to "Bottom and Hull 
Work”->”Barrier Coat and Bottom Painting”. 


-
Paul E.
1981 C Landfall 38 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Dec 19, 2022, at 12:41 PM, Doug via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> I have a question for everyone here. Here in mexico where labor is cheap and 
> craftsmanship is good. I'm wondering about fully encapsulating my keel. The 
> thought behind this would be to eliminate the worry of my keel bolts. I can 
> see (access) a total of 2. There is one under the mast and who knows how many 
> below the engine down about 3 feet. 
> Just a thought as I don't show any signs of a loose keel yet. 
> 
> 
> 
> Doug Mountjoy 
> sv Rebecca Leah 
> C & C Landfall 39
> Port Orchard Yacht Club 
> +1 253-208-1412 
> 
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
> me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Wind instrument conundrum

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

My Tacktick wireless wind instrument stopped reporting.  The anneommeter cups 
seemed kinda of slow to react also.  I googled the problem to the web and found 
some nice videos of people who repaired their units.  I bought a new battery 
pack and carefully took mine apart and while apart, cleaned and lubed the shaft 
and bearings and it now works great.  I never would have attempted it on my 
own, cause several screws are hidden under a decal.  Suggest you query YouTube 
for make and model.

Chuck Scheaffer, 1989 C 34R, Annapolis

> On 12/19/2022 4:47 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Charlie,
> 
> Are you saying the propeller is sticking or the vane is sticking?  Might 
> be spiders.  Seriously, spiders sometimes make nests in wind instruments.
> 
> Either way, you might be able to fix it.  They're fairly simple units.  
> 
> I have an older Nexus (now Garmin) propeller style wind instrument.  
> After 20 years, it quit spinning in light breeze.  I disassembled it, cleaned 
> and lubed it about 2 years ago.  After reassembly, it's been going just fine. 
>  I know it isn't like a GWS 10 unit but here's a link to a pic of the 
> disassembled unit.  I think I cleaned it with Boeshield T-9 then lubed it 
> with McLube Sailkote but not 100% sure.  You don't want to use any petroleum 
> based oil, however light.  It will eventually dry up and turn to varnish.
> 
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mrwL0H6BZ2hfje0A1lRaIhJg-c9tLlI4/view?usp=share_link
> 
> There may be some videos on how to disassemble anemometer cup type units.
> 
> I also see them on eBay occasionally.  
> 
> A few years ago I emailed Garmin about interfacing my old wind instrument 
> with a GND 10 black box.  I think they said it was fairly straightforward.  
> The important thing was that they actually answered and the answer was 
> helpful.
> --
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 12:32 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > I have a Garmin 10 series instrument set on Water Phantom 
> with 4 GMI 10 displays, GWS 10 wind transducer and a Garmin knot-meter/depth 
> sounder all on a NMEA 2000 backbone which I installed about 10 years ago (?).
> > 
> > This is connected to my Garmin 547(1?) chart plotter and this has 
> > worked fine. 
> > 
> > Now the wind transducer anemometer is 'sticking' in light air and I 
> > may need to replace the mast transducer unit entirely or at least the 
> > anemometer and wind vane.  I can replace the cups and the vane for less 
> > than a boat buck and will probably try this before I consider going with 
> > Garmin's gwind replacement--the GWS 10 is no longer produced although I may 
> > be able to find one. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks in advance for any wisdom the list may send my way,
> > 
> > Charlie Nelson
> > 1995 C 36 XL/kcb
> > Water Phantom
> > 
> > 
> > Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album 
> > site and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> > Thanks for your help.
> > Stu
> > 
> > > 
> 
> 
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and 
> help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
> 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Wind instrument conundrum

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

Charlie,

I have a similar issue with Calypso’s B wind instruments.  I have been 
following several related topics in Sailing Anarchy’s Gear forum where people 
much more familiar with the IT side of connecting a new sensor to an existing 
system.  I have read much about various attempts to connect different 
manufacturers equipment through a NMEA backbone.

My sense is there may not be an easy or simple solution at least for our 22 
year old B system.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C 43
Port Ludlow/Seattle

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2022 10:31 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Wind instrument conundrum

I have a Garmin 10 series instrument set on Water Phantom with 4 GMI 10 
displays, GWS 10 wind transducer and a Garmin knot-meter/depth sounder all on a 
NMEA 2000 backbone which I installed about 10 years ago (?).

This is connected to my Garmin 547(1?) chart plotter and this has worked fine.


Thanks in advance for any wisdom the list may send my way,

Charlie Nelson
1995 C 36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom



Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Wind instrument conundrum

[John Read via CnC-List]

Sounds to me like a good cleaning should fix the issue. These are very simple 
units and easy to disassemble and clean.  Agree do not use petroleum based 
products.

 

John Read

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

 

From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2022 1:32 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Wind instrument conundrum

 

I have a Garmin 10 series instrument set on Water Phantom with 4 GMI 10 
displays, GWS 10 wind transducer and a Garmin knot-meter/depth sounder all on a 
NMEA 2000 backbone which I installed about 10 years ago (?). 

 

This is connected to my Garmin 547(1?) chart plotter and this has worked fine. 

 

Now the wind transducer anemometer is 'sticking' in light air and I may need to 
replace the mast transducer unit entirely or at least the anemometer and wind 
vane.  I can replace the cups and the vane for less than a boat buck and will 
probably try this before I consider going with Garmin's gwind replacement--the 
GWS 10 is no longer produced although I may be able to find one. 

 

My issue is that per Garmin phone support, if I go with the Gwind I MAY have to 
also go with the GND 10 black box, depending on the exact model of my GWS 10 
transducer. Apparently this is used to make the Gwind talk to Nexus and may be 
needed to interface to my existing network. Of course I likely cannot get the 
exact model and serial number of my current transducer without going up the 
mast!

 

My question for any NMEA experts on the list is:  

 

Can I just plug the Gwind cable into my 2000 backbone and forget about the GND 
Black box? Since I don't use nor plan to use any race software for my club 
racing, I don't see the point plus adding another box to convert something 
seems antithetical to the principles of NMEA 2000 which was to let compatible 
instruments talk to each other without such conversions IIRC.

 

OTOH, if the GND box is necessary to get Gwind data to display on my current 
system, I may have to bite the bullet and do it or find another transducer that 
doesn't require the box which could bring a host of other problems mixing 
instrument manufacturers! 

 

Thanks in advance for any wisdom the list may send my way,

 

Charlie Nelson

1995 C 36 XL/kcb

Water Phantom

 

 

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Encapsulating keel

[John Read via CnC-List]

Good Lord – why even think about such a project.  Boat is designed for external 
keel and to change to internal is a massive undertaking which will add a lot of 
weight.  I am not a naval architect but would have to believe this will also 
change handling as keel profile will be thicker.  Also will also impact resale 
value.  Won’t do much to alleviate strain on keel bolts as boat is designed for 
that.  

If your concern is access to the keel bolts, there have to be easier ways to do 
that including removal of engine which is not that hard for experienced yard.

 

John Read

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

 

From: Doug via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2022 12:42 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Doug 
Subject: Stus-List Encapsulating keel

 

I have a question for everyone here. Here in mexico where labor is cheap and 
craftsmanship is good. I'm wondering about fully encapsulating my keel. The 
thought behind this would be to eliminate the worry of my keel bolts. I can see 
(access) a total of 2. There is one under the mast and who knows how many below 
the engine down about 3 feet. 

Just a thought as I don't show any signs of a loose keel yet. 

 

 

 

Doug Mountjoy 

sv Rebecca Leah 

C & C Landfall 39

Port Orchard Yacht Club 

+1 253-208-1412 

 

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Wind instrument conundrum

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Charlie,

Are you saying the propeller is sticking or the vane is sticking?  Might be
spiders.  Seriously, spiders sometimes make nests in wind instruments.

Either way, you might be able to fix it.  They're fairly simple units.

I have an older Nexus (now Garmin) propeller style wind instrument.  After
20 years, it quit spinning in light breeze.  I disassembled it, cleaned and
lubed it about 2 years ago.  After reassembly, it's been going just fine.
I know it isn't like a GWS 10 unit but here's a link to a pic of the
disassembled unit.  I think I cleaned it with Boeshield T-9 then lubed it
with McLube Sailkote but not 100% sure.  You don't want to use any
petroleum based oil, however light.  It will eventually dry up and turn to
varnish.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mrwL0H6BZ2hfje0A1lRaIhJg-c9tLlI4/view?usp=share_link

There may be some videos on how to disassemble anemometer cup type units.

I also see them on eBay occasionally.

A few years ago I emailed Garmin about interfacing my old wind instrument
with a GND 10 black box.  I think they said it was fairly straightforward.
The important thing was that they actually answered and the answer was
helpful.
--
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 12:32 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I have a Garmin 10 series instrument set on Water Phantom with 4 GMI 10
> displays, GWS 10 wind transducer and a Garmin knot-meter/depth sounder all
> on a NMEA 2000 backbone which I installed about 10 years ago (?).
>
> This is connected to my Garmin 547(1?) chart plotter and this has worked
> fine.
>
> Now the wind transducer anemometer is 'sticking' in light air and I may
> need to replace the mast transducer unit entirely or at least the
> anemometer and wind vane.  I can replace the cups and the vane for less
> than a boat buck and will probably try this before I consider going with
> Garmin's gwind replacement--the GWS 10 is no longer produced although I may
> be able to find one.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any wisdom the list may send my way,
>
> Charlie Nelson
> 1995 C 36 XL/kcb
> Water Phantom
>
>
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and
> help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Encapsulating keel

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

That would be a very large undertaking to say the least.
Maybe use the low-budget Mexicans to move the engine instead??
If you do want to make an internal keel out of an external one, that is going 
to be a lot more than one layer of glass and it will need to run up the hull 
sides quite a bit. You would more or less be adding a whole new bottom onto the 
boat.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina

From: Doug via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2022 12:42 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Doug 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Encapsulating keel

I have a question for everyone here. Here in mexico where labor is cheap and 
craftsmanship is good. I'm wondering about fully encapsulating my keel. The 
thought behind this would be to eliminate the worry of my keel bolts. I can see 
(access) a total of 2. There is one under the mast and who knows how many below 
the engine down about 3 feet.
Just a thought as I don't show any signs of a loose keel yet.



Doug Mountjoy
sv Rebecca Leah
C & C Landfall 39
Port Orchard Yacht Club
+1 253-208-1412

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Wind instrument conundrum

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

As a follow-up, I should have noted that I have an NX2 server, but not the 
so-called “black box.”  The replacement Garmin masthead unit works fine on my 
NX2 system.

 

From: Matt Wolford via CnC-List  
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2022 1:59 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: wolf...@erie.net
Subject: Stus-List Re: Wind instrument conundrum

 

Charlie:

 

I can’t speak to the NMEA issue.  However, be advised that when 
my NX2 masthead unit was damaged (by a wave, no less), Garmin replaced it 
through an exchange program it had at the time.  I sent in the old unit, and 
they sent me what appeared to be a new one (which I still have).  As I recall, 
the cost of the replacement was $150.  Great deal – you may want to inquire.

 

Matt

 

From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2022 1:32 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Cc: cenel...@aol.com  
Subject: Stus-List Wind instrument conundrum

 

I have a Garmin 10 series instrument set on Water Phantom with 4 GMI 10 
displays, GWS 10 wind transducer and a Garmin knot-meter/depth sounder all on a 
NMEA 2000 backbone which I installed about 10 years ago (?). 

 

This is connected to my Garmin 547(1?) chart plotter and this has worked fine. 

 

Now the wind transducer anemometer is 'sticking' in light air and I may need to 
replace the mast transducer unit entirely or at least the anemometer and wind 
vane.  I can replace the cups and the vane for less than a boat buck and will 
probably try this before I consider going with Garmin's gwind replacement--the 
GWS 10 is no longer produced although I may be able to find one. 

 

My issue is that per Garmin phone support, if I go with the Gwind I MAY have to 
also go with the GND 10 black box, depending on the exact model of my GWS 10 
transducer. Apparently this is used to make the Gwind talk to Nexus and may be 
needed to interface to my existing network. Of course I likely cannot get the 
exact model and serial number of my current transducer without going up the 
mast!

 

My question for any NMEA experts on the list is:  

 

Can I just plug the Gwind cable into my 2000 backbone and forget about the GND 
Black box? Since I don't use nor plan to use any race software for my club 
racing, I don't see the point plus adding another box to convert something 
seems antithetical to the principles of NMEA 2000 which was to let compatible 
instruments talk to each other without such conversions IIRC.

 

OTOH, if the GND box is necessary to get Gwind data to display on my current 
system, I may have to bite the bullet and do it or find another transducer that 
doesn't require the box which could bring a host of other problems mixing 
instrument manufacturers! 

 

Thanks in advance for any wisdom the list may send my way,

 

Charlie Nelson

1995 C 36 XL/kcb

Water Phantom

 

 

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Wind instrument conundrum

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

Charlie:

 

I can’t speak to the NMEA issue.  However, be advised that when 
my NX2 masthead unit was damaged (by a wave, no less), Garmin replaced it 
through an exchange program it had at the time.  I sent in the old unit, and 
they sent me what appeared to be a new one (which I still have).  As I recall, 
the cost of the replacement was $150.  Great deal – you may want to inquire.

 

Matt

 

From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List  
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2022 1:32 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Wind instrument conundrum

 

I have a Garmin 10 series instrument set on Water Phantom with 4 GMI 10 
displays, GWS 10 wind transducer and a Garmin knot-meter/depth sounder all on a 
NMEA 2000 backbone which I installed about 10 years ago (?). 

 

This is connected to my Garmin 547(1?) chart plotter and this has worked fine. 

 

Now the wind transducer anemometer is 'sticking' in light air and I may need to 
replace the mast transducer unit entirely or at least the anemometer and wind 
vane.  I can replace the cups and the vane for less than a boat buck and will 
probably try this before I consider going with Garmin's gwind replacement--the 
GWS 10 is no longer produced although I may be able to find one. 

 

My issue is that per Garmin phone support, if I go with the Gwind I MAY have to 
also go with the GND 10 black box, depending on the exact model of my GWS 10 
transducer. Apparently this is used to make the Gwind talk to Nexus and may be 
needed to interface to my existing network. Of course I likely cannot get the 
exact model and serial number of my current transducer without going up the 
mast!

 

My question for any NMEA experts on the list is:  

 

Can I just plug the Gwind cable into my 2000 backbone and forget about the GND 
Black box? Since I don't use nor plan to use any race software for my club 
racing, I don't see the point plus adding another box to convert something 
seems antithetical to the principles of NMEA 2000 which was to let compatible 
instruments talk to each other without such conversions IIRC.

 

OTOH, if the GND box is necessary to get Gwind data to display on my current 
system, I may have to bite the bullet and do it or find another transducer that 
doesn't require the box which could bring a host of other problems mixing 
instrument manufacturers! 

 

Thanks in advance for any wisdom the list may send my way,

 

Charlie Nelson

1995 C 36 XL/kcb

Water Phantom

 

 

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Wind instrument conundrum

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

I have a Garmin 10 series instrument set on Water Phantom with 4 GMI 10 
displays, GWS 10 wind transducer and a Garmin knot-meter/depth sounder all on a 
NMEA 2000 backbone which I installed about 10 years ago (?).
This is connected to my Garmin 547(1?) chart plotter and this has worked fine. 
Now the wind transducer anemometer is 'sticking' in light air and I may need to 
replace the mast transducer unit entirely or at least the anemometer and wind 
vane.  I can replace the cups and the vane for less than a boat buck and will 
probably try this before I consider going with Garmin's gwind replacement--the 
GWS 10 is no longer produced although I may be able to find one. 
My issue is that per Garmin phone support, if I go with the Gwind I MAY have to 
also go with the GND 10 black box, depending on the exact model of my GWS 10 
transducer. Apparently this is used to make the Gwind talk to Nexus and may be 
needed to interface to my existing network. Of course I likely cannot get the 
exact model and serial number of my current transducer without going up the 
mast!
My question for any NMEA experts on the list is:  
Can I just plug the Gwind cable into my 2000 backbone and forget about the GND 
Black box? Since I don't use nor plan to use any race software for my club 
racing, I don't see the point plus adding another box to convert something 
seems antithetical to the principles of NMEA 2000 which was to let compatible 
instruments talk to each other without such conversions IIRC.
OTOH, if the GND box is necessary to get Gwind data to display on my current 
system, I may have to bite the bullet and do it or find another transducer that 
doesn't require the box which could bring a host of other problems mixing 
instrument manufacturers! 
Thanks in advance for any wisdom the list may send my way,
Charlie Nelson1995 C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Encapsulating keel

[Doug via CnC-List]

I have a question for everyone here. Here in mexico where labor is cheap and 
craftsmanship is good. I'm wondering about fully encapsulating my keel. The 
thought behind this would be to eliminate the worry of my keel bolts. I can see 
(access) a total of 2. There is one under the mast and who knows how many below 
the engine down about 3 feet. Just a thought as I don't show any signs of a 
loose keel yet. Doug Mountjoy sv Rebecca Leah C & C Landfall 39Port Orchard 
Yacht Club +1 253-208-1412 Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Happy Holiday Greetings

[ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List]

Thank you, Stu, for keeping the site and the email list going all these
years. Happy holidays to you and Gladys

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR


On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 9:35 AM Stu via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Thanks to the many subscribers who contributed to the C Photo Album
> and this great list.  Without your financial support, it would have been
> difficult for me to continue.
>
> Thanks again, you support is greatly appreciated.
>
> May everyone have a joyous Christmas and a prosperous New Year.
>
> Stu 'n' Gladys
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and
> help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!u4Ys9ciQ8iUiJAMGUhnpZaeO0HFvCIY2Z7tfGPmo6dsfo2NkBU04dlhS3YHLEUa9X6_qVxfnTsdfJy7XR-YcRBM$
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu