Stus-List 37+ Steering Cable

[Rob Hamlin via CnC-List]

Thinking about my my off season punch list. 

Steering system is next up, after motor mounts and running gear last year.

Any idea on cable and idlers required?  

Thanks
Rob

Sent from my iPhone
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
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Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

So I called Amsoil for ya'.  Tech support was omce again very helpful but I 
fell down when he started asking tech questions.  So...I had to hang up, search 
online for an AT4 Tranny manual, figure out the OEM oil specs, and then call 
Amsoil back.  With a better understanding of the tranny design, operation, and 
oil specs, I was able to convey the problem to the tech.  He was quite 
knowledgeable and understood the situation.  His only best product was this.

https://www.amsoil.com/p/10w-30-synthetic-small-engine-oil-ase/

[cid:eu.faircode.email.9004]

I asked about API SF and as expected he explained they don't make that anymore. 
 I asked about an ISO equivalent and he was unable to advise on anything.  His 
best advice besides the aforementioned product was to stay away from automotive 
oils since they ALL include friction modifiers.  He assured me that the small 
engine oil did not.  I also asked about 10w-30 vs straight weight and he did 
acknowledge that there were additives to help the oil flow better at cold temps 
but defended the product in that it's coefficient of friction was not affected 
by the viscosity additives.

So if you run out of options give this a try.


All the best!

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

Aug 1, 2023 14:52:57 Della Barba, Joe :

> Nothing wrong with multi-viscosity oil at all. I use Shell Rotella 15W40 
> diesel oil. It has been a long time since single-weight oil was the only 
> viable choice.
> 
> I even use Shell 15-50 in airplanes now that are right up there with the A4 
> for antique tech.
> 
> Joe
> 
> Coquina
> 
> *From:* Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 1, 2023 1:55 PM
> *To:* Stus-List 
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help
> 
> Y'all piqued my  interest.  The Castrol website is a bit of a pain to find 
> their motorcycle product specs.  Ultimately, I found all of the motorcycle 
> oils are multi viscosity.  So it seems like Castrol is out of the picture.  I 
> have little to no experience with Castrol tech support but can attest to 
> phenomenal tech support from AMSOIL.  Call their tech support and explain the 
> problem they can most likely find a product for your application based on 
> friction coefficients and viscosity, not based on designated product 
> application.
> 
> I was overwhelmed by the choices of hydro oil for my backstay.  The 
> manufacturer simply said ISO 32.  What!?  Amsoil tech support was very 
> helpful and found their power steering fluid to fit the bill.
> 
> 
> Best of luck,
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> Aug 1, 2023 11:28:58 Sylvain Laplante via CnC-List :
> 
> It's classification is API SP .. As I said look for API SF or older ( for our 
> engines ). Several antifriction were added after SH/SF and in addition to 
> that, they reduced the famous "ZDDP" additive which is so important for the 
> last level protection to prevent oil breakdown. That ZDDP can clog catalist 
> converter but our A4 don't have that problem  :-)
> 
> I've done a 5 day motoring with my A4 and it did not burn oil noticeably ( 
> still close to the dipstick top mark ) and not really black/dirty. Still 
> original 1975 A4 . I change oil twice a year and when it is hot since we 
> don't have an oil filter.
> 
> Castrol site says a few things about motorcycle oils and this was the oil 
> Moyer used to recommend on it's site..
> 
> MOTORCYCLE VS MOTOR OIL | Castrol® 
> USA[https://www.castrol.com/en_us/united-states/home/motorcycle-oil-and-fluids/motorcycle-vs-motor-oil.html]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **MOTORCYCLE VS MOTOR OIL | Castrol® USA**
> 
> Many drivers wonder if you can use normal oil for their motorcycles. Learn 
> the key differences to settle the iss...
> 
> Sylvain
> 
> 1975 C&C27
> 
> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 10:36:06 AM EDT, Paul Hood via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> This is the SAE30 oil I’m using.
> 
>  
> 
> https://www.okpetroleummarketplace.com/castrol-sae-30-hd-30-motor-oil-6-quarts.html
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Paul Hood
> 
> 416.799.5549
> 
>  
> 
> *From:* Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 1, 2023 10:09 AM
> *To:* 'Stus-List' 
> *Cc:* j...@dellabarba.com
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help
> 
>  
> 
> I would think about an oil change and use oil designed for motorcycles with a 
> wet clutch and see if that helps.
> 
>  
> 
> Joe
> 
> Coquina
> 
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
> me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
> 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Nothing wrong with multi-viscosity oil at all. I use Shell Rotella 15W40 diesel 
oil. It has been a long time since single-weight oil was the only viable choice.
I even use Shell 15-50 in airplanes now that are right up there with the A4 for 
antique tech.

Joe
Coquina

From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2023 1:55 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help

Y'all piqued my  interest.  The Castrol website is a bit of a pain to find 
their motorcycle product specs.  Ultimately, I found all of the motorcycle oils 
are multi viscosity.  So it seems like Castrol is out of the picture.  I have 
little to no experience with Castrol tech support but can attest to phenomenal 
tech support from AMSOIL.  Call their tech support and explain the problem they 
can most likely find a product for your application based on friction 
coefficients and viscosity, not based on designated product application.

I was overwhelmed by the choices of hydro oil for my backstay.  The 
manufacturer simply said ISO 32.  What!?  Amsoil tech support was very helpful 
and found their power steering fluid to fit the bill.


Best of luck,

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD


Aug 1, 2023 11:28:58 Sylvain Laplante via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>:
It's classification is API SP .. As I said look for API SF or older ( for our 
engines ). Several antifriction were added after SH/SF and in addition to that, 
they reduced the famous "ZDDP" additive which is so important for the last 
level protection to prevent oil breakdown. That ZDDP can clog catalist 
converter but our A4 don't have that problem  :-)

I've done a 5 day motoring with my A4 and it did not burn oil noticeably ( 
still close to the dipstick top mark ) and not really black/dirty. Still 
original 1975 A4 . I change oil twice a year and when it is hot since we don't 
have an oil filter.
Castrol site says a few things about motorcycle oils and this was the oil Moyer 
used to recommend on it's site..
MOTORCYCLE VS MOTOR OIL | Castrol® 
USA

MOTORCYCLE VS MOTOR OIL | Castrol® USA

Many drivers wonder if you can use normal oil for their motorcycles. Learn the 
key differences to settle the iss...
Sylvain
1975 C&C27




On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 10:36:06 AM EDT, Paul Hood via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:



This is the SAE30 oil I’m using.



https://www.okpetroleummarketplace.com/castrol-sae-30-hd-30-motor-oil-6-quarts.html





Paul Hood

416.799.5549



From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2023 10:09 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help



I would think about an oil change and use oil designed for motorcycles with a 
wet clutch and see if that helps.



Joe

Coquina
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help

[John Irvin via CnC-List]

Don’t forget Moyer’s advice- Marvel Mystery Oil.

Get Outlook for iOS

From: Paul Hood via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2023 2:33:47 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: Paul Hood 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help


I see that that suggestion here is change the oil.  I can do so and fill with 
the new but do you recommend a flush of some sort between or just drain and 
fill?  Can’t imagine that’s my problem but I’m running out of options.



Paul Hood

416.799.5549



From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2023 1:55 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help



Y'all piqued my  interest.  The Castrol website is a bit of a pain to find 
their motorcycle product specs.  Ultimately, I found all of the motorcycle oils 
are multi viscosity.  So it seems like Castrol is out of the picture.  I have 
little to no experience with Castrol tech support but can attest to phenomenal 
tech support from AMSOIL.  Call their tech support and explain the problem they 
can most likely find a product for your application based on friction 
coefficients and viscosity, not based on designated product application.

I was overwhelmed by the choices of hydro oil for my backstay.  The 
manufacturer simply said ISO 32.  What!?  Amsoil tech support was very helpful 
and found their power steering fluid to fit the bill.


Best of luck,

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD


Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help

[Paul Hood via CnC-List]

I see that that suggestion here is change the oil.  I can do so and fill with 
the new but do you recommend a flush of some sort between or just drain and 
fill?  Can’t imagine that’s my problem but I’m running out of options.  

 

Paul Hood

416.799.5549

 

From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List  
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2023 1:55 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help

 

Y'all piqued my  interest.  The Castrol website is a bit of a pain to find 
their motorcycle product specs.  Ultimately, I found all of the motorcycle oils 
are multi viscosity.  So it seems like Castrol is out of the picture.  I have 
little to no experience with Castrol tech support but can attest to phenomenal 
tech support from AMSOIL.  Call their tech support and explain the problem they 
can most likely find a product for your application based on friction 
coefficients and viscosity, not based on designated product application. 

I was overwhelmed by the choices of hydro oil for my backstay.  The 
manufacturer simply said ISO 32.  What!?  Amsoil tech support was very helpful 
and found their power steering fluid to fit the bill. 


Best of luck, 

Josh Muckley 
S/V Sea Hawk 
1989 C&C 37+ 
Solomons, MD 

 

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Y'all piqued my  interest.  The Castrol website is a bit of a pain to find 
their motorcycle product specs.  Ultimately, I found all of the motorcycle oils 
are multi viscosity.  So it seems like Castrol is out of the picture.  I have 
little to no experience with Castrol tech support but can attest to phenomenal 
tech support from AMSOIL.  Call their tech support and explain the problem they 
can most likely find a product for your application based on friction 
coefficients and viscosity, not based on designated product application.

I was overwhelmed by the choices of hydro oil for my backstay.  The 
manufacturer simply said ISO 32.  What!?  Amsoil tech support was very helpful 
and found their power steering fluid to fit the bill.


Best of luck,

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

Aug 1, 2023 11:28:58 Sylvain Laplante via CnC-List :

> It's classification is API SP .. As I said look for API SF or older ( for our 
> engines ). Several antifriction were added after SH/SF and in addition to 
> that, they reduced the famous "ZDDP" additive which is so important for the 
> last level protection to prevent oil breakdown. That ZDDP can clog catalist 
> converter but our A4 don't have that problem  :-)
> 
> I've done a 5 day motoring with my A4 and it did not burn oil noticeably ( 
> still close to the dipstick top mark ) and not really black/dirty. Still 
> original 1975 A4 . I change oil twice a year and when it is hot since we 
> don't have an oil filter.
> Castrol site says a few things about motorcycle oils and this was the oil 
> Moyer used to recommend on it's site..
> MOTORCYCLE VS MOTOR OIL | Castrol® 
> USA[https://www.castrol.com/en_us/united-states/home/motorcycle-oil-and-fluids/motorcycle-vs-motor-oil.html]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *MOTORCYCLE VS MOTOR OIL | Castrol® USA*
> 
> Many drivers wonder if you can use normal oil for their motorcycles. Learn 
> the key differences to settle the iss...
> 
> [https://www.castrol.com/en_us/united-states/home/motorcycle-oil-and-fluids/motorcycle-vs-motor-oil.html]Sylvain
> 1975 C&C27
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 10:36:06 AM EDT, Paul Hood via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> This is the SAE30 oil I’m using.
> 
>  
> 
> https://www.okpetroleummarketplace.com/castrol-sae-30-hd-30-motor-oil-6-quarts.html
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Paul Hood
> 
> 416.799.5549
> 
>  
> 
> *From:* Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 1, 2023 10:09 AM
> *To:* 'Stus-List' 
> *Cc:* j...@dellabarba.com
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help
> 
>  
> 
> I would think about an oil change and use oil designed for motorcycles with a 
> wet clutch and see if that helps.
> 
>  
> 
> Joe
> 
> Coquina
> 
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
> me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help

[Sylvain Laplante via CnC-List]

 It's classification is API SP .. As I said look for API SF or older ( for our 
engines ). Several antifriction were added after SH/SF and in addition to that, 
they reduced the famous "ZDDP" additive which is so important for the last 
level protection to prevent oil breakdown. That ZDDP can clog catalist 
converter but our A4 don't have that problem  :-)
I've done a 5 day motoring with my A4 and it did not burn oil noticeably ( 
still close to the dipstick top mark ) and not really black/dirty. Still 
original 1975 A4 . I change oil twice a year and when it is hot since we don't 
have an oil filter.Castrol site says a few things about motorcycle oils and 
this was the oil Moyer used to recommend on it's site..MOTORCYCLE VS MOTOR OIL 
| Castrol® USA

| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
MOTORCYCLE VS MOTOR OIL | Castrol® USA

Many drivers wonder if you can use normal oil for their motorcycles. Learn the 
key differences to settle the iss...
 |

 |

 |

Sylvain1975 C&C27



On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 10:36:06 AM EDT, Paul Hood via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
 
This is the SAE30 oil I’m using.

  

https://www.okpetroleummarketplace.com/castrol-sae-30-hd-30-motor-oil-6-quarts.html

  

  

Paul Hood

416.799.5549

  

From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List  
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2023 10:09 AM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help

  

I would think about an oil change and use oil designed for motorcycles with a 
wet clutch and see if that helps.

  

Joe

Coquina
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu  Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help

[Paul Hood via CnC-List]

This is the SAE30 oil I’m using.

 

https://www.okpetroleummarketplace.com/castrol-sae-30-hd-30-motor-oil-6-quarts.html

 

 

Paul Hood

416.799.5549

 

From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List  
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2023 10:09 AM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help

 

I would think about an oil change and use oil designed for motorcycles with a 
wet clutch and see if that helps.

 

Joe

Coquina

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

I would think about an oil change and use oil designed for motorcycles with a 
wet clutch and see if that helps.

 

Joe

Coquina

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I always suggest asking A4 questions over at the Moyer Marine forum. They have 
some very knowledgeable posters over there.
BTW, did you use modern car oil with friction modifiers in the engine? They can 
make the transmission slip.
Joe
Coquina

From: Sylvain Laplante via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2023 7:07 PM
To: Paul Hood 
Cc: cnc-list@cnc-list.com; Sylvain Laplante 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Atomic 4 reversing - help, help

Hi,
  If you use automotive oil ( anything newer than API  SH ) there are too many 
additives in order to save friction, htis is bad for a wet clutch ( in 
motorcycles since the plates run in oil bath ) and also on the reverse band on 
the Atomic transmission. Recommended oil is either motorcycle oil or straight 
30 oil.

If you need a more granular adjustment for the transmission Moyer sells a 
modified adjusting collar.
https://moyermarine.com/product/improved-forward-adjusting-collar-orev_05_306/

Sylvain


On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 02:32:26 PM EDT, Paul Hood via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:



Hey all Atomic 4 owners, I have a problem with my reversing gear adjustment.  I 
have just dropped in the engine after oil pump work and reinstalled.



The reverse was never great, and I attributed that to the feathering prop but 
it is now slightly worse and I’m force to adjust.  I adjusted the reversing 
gear band with approximately 20 adjustments over the last 2 days to achieve 
what I have now, which is the best possible adjustment I could find, and it is 
still not great, nor usable.



If you’re familiar with the adjusting nut, the nut has 6 sides.  Each 
adjustment of the nut moves to the next flat so the spring can land flat on the 
nut, holding it in place from further turning.  Each turn is 1/6 of a 360 
degress or 60 degree each ( 16.6% of a full turn).  This is the flat spot for 
each minimum sustainable adjustment.



For me, the best adjustment is in-between these flat spots. It has the spring 
holding the adjusting nut, not flat on a side, but just offset of the nut 
knuckle (just over half way between the 2 flats, about 6% and 10% turn 
respectively off the last flat).  Its not a sustainable position and will 
likely and easily fall off to the nearest flat side in time.  At this position, 
the best it provides is a good forward, the absolute smallest of smallest 
neutral window and the reverse is still almost non-existing.  The reverse spins 
slightly but not fast and doesn’t increase much when revving the engine.
There is definitely no whine in the reverse as you should hear when fulling 
engaged.  If you have an atomic 4 you all know what I mean.



If I tighten the adjusting nut to the nearest flat side of the nut, the clamp 
band tightens too much and the neutral window is gone, the reverse is strong 
but it is over-riding the forward and although I have good reverse and a whine 
with good motion, forward shifting does results in a stall as the reverse and 
forward override each other.  Moving the adjustment nut to the nearest loosen 
flat, enlarged the neutral window but eliminates the reverse movement entirely.



I spoke with Ken at Moyer today and he suggested to remove the shaft/prop from 
the equation by temporarily disconnecting it as it is not likely, but might be 
a possible a cause to the problem.  If that is not the problem, he has no 
solution except to say, there is a piece to the puzzle missing.  There is a pad 
under the band that is like a brake drum pad but in the 50 years doing this, 
they have never seen one wear, a couple pads crack but they still worked fine.  
He said they could sell me a new reversing gear but won’t do that as he 
suggests there is nothing wrong with my reversing gear….just a piece to the 
puzzle missing.



I have not clue how to fix this and not sure what to do next.  Any suggestions 
from anyone….or do you have a contact that might be able to assist.



Paul Hood

REFUGE – 1981 C&C34 on Georgian Bay /)


Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu