Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question
Did you try: Marine Museum of the Great Lakes at Kingston 53 Yonge Street, Kingston, Ontario K7M 6G4 613 542-2261 mana...@marmuseum.ca https://www.marmuseum.ca/ On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 at 22:43, Gregory Noye wrote: > Hi all, I would like to locate original drawings/ plans for a 1980c& c > land fall 38. I require them to put my vessel into survey here in New > Zealand . I have tried two Canadian maritime museums . > > thanks is in advance Gregory Noye > > On 13 February 2019 at 08:55 Rob Ball via CnC-List > wrote: > > All the C Keels have a safety factor of FIVE with the boat heeled 90 > degrees . . . . so that keel joint is pretty conservative. > > > > Cracks and ‘Smiles’ are normally the fiberglass bending (it is plastic > remember) outboard of the bolts and washers . . . > > > > The best thing to do (although we never did it) would be to have the > ‘washers’ the full *width* of the sump – to hold that corner down to the > keel top. You can’t get all the way, of course, but the farther (closer) > to the actual outboard corner, the better . . . > > > > *Rob Ball *C 34 > > > > *From:* Ken Heaton > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 12, 2019 2:39 PM > *To:* cnc-list > *Cc:* cenel...@aol.com; bwhitmore ; Rob Ball < > r...@edsonintl.com> > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question > > > > We had our keel off once a few years ago, to check the keel bolts, and to > do some repairs to the the keel sump where there had been some excessive > material removed in an earlier repair. Our keel weighs 7000 lbs but with > the nuts off, hanging on it own weight on just the bolts it didn't move at > all. Wedges were needed to break it loose and then a couple of very short > hydraulic jacks slipped into the gap to push the keel the rest of the way > off past the keel bolts. They tell me there was about 10,000 lbs. of > pressure on the jacks to push the keel bolts and keel down and off. > > > > That thing was not going to fall off on its own. ...and on examination > the keel bolts were perfect, not the slightest sign of crevice corrosion or > any other issues. > > > > Ken Heaton > S/V Salazar - Can 54955 > C 37/40 XL - Hull # 67 > Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia > > > > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question
All the C Keels have a safety factor of FIVE with the boat heeled 90 degrees . . . . so that keel joint is pretty conservative. Cracks and ‘Smiles’ are normally the fiberglass bending (it is plastic remember) outboard of the bolts and washers . . . The best thing to do (although we never did it) would be to have the ‘washers’ the full width of the sump – to hold that corner down to the keel top. You can’t get all the way, of course, but the farther (closer) to the actual outboard corner, the better . . . Rob Ball C 34 From: Ken Heaton Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 2:39 PM To: cnc-list Cc: cenel...@aol.com; bwhitmore ; Rob Ball Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question We had our keel off once a few years ago, to check the keel bolts, and to do some repairs to the the keel sump where there had been some excessive material removed in an earlier repair. Our keel weighs 7000 lbs but with the nuts off, hanging on it own weight on just the bolts it didn't move at all. Wedges were needed to break it loose and then a couple of very short hydraulic jacks slipped into the gap to push the keel the rest of the way off past the keel bolts. They tell me there was about 10,000 lbs. of pressure on the jacks to push the keel bolts and keel down and off. That thing was not going to fall off on its own. ...and on examination the keel bolts were perfect, not the slightest sign of crevice corrosion or any other issues. Ken Heaton S/V Salazar - Can 54955 C 37/40 XL - Hull # 67 Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question
We had our keel off once a few years ago, to check the keel bolts, and to do some repairs to the the keel sump where there had been some excessive material removed in an earlier repair. Our keel weighs 7000 lbs but with the nuts off, hanging on it own weight on just the bolts it didn't move at all. Wedges were needed to break it loose and then a couple of very short hydraulic jacks slipped into the gap to push the keel the rest of the way off past the keel bolts. They tell me there was about 10,000 lbs. of pressure on the jacks to push the keel bolts and keel down and off. That thing was not going to fall off on its own. ...and on examination the keel bolts were perfect, not the slightest sign of crevice corrosion or any other issues. Ken Heaton S/V Salazar - Can 54955 C 37/40 XL - Hull # 67 Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia https://c-c-37-40.blogspot.ca/p/salazar.html On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 at 14:32, bwhitmore via CnC-List wrote: > Thanks Rob! > > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question
Thanks Rob! Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone null___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question
This was my experience when removing my keel. We had to “break it loose” when lifting the hull. Question for you Rob, my keel joint had epoxy for the keel stub/keel joint which I assumed was done by a PO when the bottom was peeled and epoxy coated. Was it actually done at the plant? Regards, Dave 1982 C 37 Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 12, 2019, at 13:11, Rob Ball via CnC-List > wrote: > > I have watched a number of keels removed from a hull. Most all the time the > epoxy held the keel when the nuts were removed. In fact there are special > wedges made to try to break it loose . . . . . It is a really tough job . . > . . > Bottom line, in my opinion, it will not matter whether the torquing is done > in or out of the water . . . . > > Rob Ball C 34 > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question
I have watched a number of keels removed from a hull. Most all the time the epoxy held the keel when the nuts were removed. In fact there are special wedges made to try to break it loose . . . . . It is a really tough job . . . . Bottom line, in my opinion, it will not matter whether the torquing is done in or out of the water . . . . Rob Ball C 34 ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question
Hi Charlie, Sorry you have a leak. I believe you have a very unique centerboard version of the 34/36plus. I don't know if they ever made another. Anyway, can you see where the leak is coming from? Was the keel to hull joint showing when it was last on the hard? I would wait until the boat is on the hard to tighten keel bolts. I would want the weight of the keel supported and the weight of the hull resting properly on the keel, so gravity is your friend, compressing the joint for you. I wouldn't touch the system while in the water because in that state, gravity is trying to pull the 5000# keel off and if you snap a bolt, you may create a problem rather than solve one. Wild idea: Maybe take the boat to a dock that is deep at high tide, but when the tide goes out, the keel is aground, so you could use the mud to support the keel and tighten the keel bolts during the low tide with some hull weight pressing down on the joint. Fix the leak and float off on the high tide. If that doesn't fix the leak, I would try and schedule a short haulout to block the keel only, tighten the bolts you can get to and relaunch to see if that fixed the leak. If it doesn't, pull the mast so you can tighten those bolts, relaunch to see if that fixes the leak. If it doesn't, haul the boat again and drop the keel to reseal the joint. Be sure the boatyard catches the keel properly with large blocks positioned under the keel and no further aft than the end of the joint. Since our keels sweep back, don't let them block it further back where it could cause extra leverage and actually open the smile up front. And don't let them support the boat from the end of the bulb or wings. I've seen keels supported too far back when it's easy to do it properly. The stands are meant to support 10% of the weight so 90% is on the keel. I also like to see it level and plumb to best support everything. Chuck, Resolute, 1990 C 34R > On February 11, 2019 at 1:18 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List > wrote: > > I am not an engineer in any sense of the word but perhaps someone on the > list can critique these thoughts of mine: > > Keel bolts can be tightened on the hard (while resting on the keel) or in > the water while the keel is hanging from the bolts. > > I suspect the job would be considerably easier (assuming the bolts are > loose) it one did not have to lift the keel with the torque wrench while > tightening the bolts--at least until the keel has met the stub. > > The torque numbers recommended are presumably set by the > manufacturer/designer to provide enough pressure between the keel stub and > keel surface for both absolute stability in all directions of potential > motion (pitch, yaw and roll?) as well as to seal this joint against water > intrusion (along with some sealing compound). > > OTOH, after this torque number is reached further tightening is likely > counter-productive since it is either pulling the keel bolt out of the soft > lead of the keel, driving the nut/washer down through the stub or stripping > the bolt or nut threads--none of which is desirable. > > Assuming the above makes sense, as long as the recommended torque is > reached but not seriously exceeded, it seems the bolts can be tightened in > the water or out, hanging from the keel stub or resting on the keel, as long > as the recommended torque is reached. > > I have a practical reason for a list critique of this: > > I have a small water leak somewhere between my cb trunk/keel and the cb > trunk/keel stub that I noticed just before the boat was splashed back in > October but too late to fix then. > > My keel bolts have never been tightened. > > The boat will not be on the hard again until late summer of 2019. > > I am considering tightening the bolts I can reach to some > specification--but a few are under the mast to which some of the purchase for > the cb is also attached. Thus reaching all of them would require pulling the > mast AND undoing this cb purchase--which for me is best done by the yard this > summer. > > My question: should I tighten the bolts I can reach now or > forget-about-it until the yard can do it. > > > > > Charlie Nelson > Water Phantom > 1995 C 36 XL/kcb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Keel Bolts: To Lube or Not To Lube
If the keel bolts and nuts are stainless I'd use Tef Gel as a lubricant and lower the torque values 10% as Neil suggested. "The function of Tef-Gel in eliminating seizing galling and friction welding of stainless steel, inconel, and other nickel alloys. Tef-Gel applied to both mating surfaces of nuts and bolts or threaded holes and bolts leaves a layer of 40% solid PTFE within the thread interface, which works as friction barrier. Tef-Gel, which contains 0% volatile solvents, will no evaporate, cold flow, or dry out, giving protection many years later when hardware must be dissembled." Available a West Marine, Jamestown Distributors and at the Binnacle: http://ca.binnacle.com/product_info.php?products_id=8658 Ken H. On 13 April 2017 at 18:24, Neil Schiller via CnC-Listwrote: > Lower all torque values by 10% if using any lubricant. Most torque values > are for "clean and dry threads". > > Neil Schiller > 1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7 > (C 35, Mark I) > "Corsair" > > On 4/13/2017 10:18 AM, Eugene Fodor via CnC-List wrote: > > I'm planning on checking the torque on my keel bolts this week-end. My > boat is on the hard. I see the torque chart values on the C website, but > it doesn't indicate whether or not to lubricate the bolts and what to use > if you do lubricate. It's my understanding from a little research that the > torque value also change based on presence of lubrication. What do you all > think? > > Thanks, > > Gene > "Hawk" > C 29-2 > > > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish > to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > All Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > > > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you > wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > All Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Keel Bolts: To Lube or Not To Lube
Lower all torque values by 10% if using any lubricant. Most torque values are for "clean and dry threads". Neil Schiller 1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7 (C 35, Mark I) "Corsair" On 4/13/2017 10:18 AM, Eugene Fodor via CnC-List wrote: I'm planning on checking the torque on my keel bolts this week-end. My boat is on the hard. I see the torque chart values on the C website, but it doesn't indicate whether or not to lubricate the bolts and what to use if you do lubricate. It's my understanding from a little research that the torque value also change based on presence of lubrication. What do you all think? Thanks, Gene "Hawk" C 29-2 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Keel bolts
Taps drill out holes and add threads. Dies thread rods/bolts. A die would be used on a keelbolt ;) Joe Coquina -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 10:07 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Hoyt, Mike Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel bolts Colin On a previous boat on keel bolt suffered from "Galling" (look it up). It was at the threads exactly where the nut is when tightened and resulted in the nut spinning and not tightening. Inside the keel there was no problem. A local machine shop took the threads down to the next smallest size and then used a larger fender washer. Think Tap and Die but whichever term means rethreading the bolt. I believe that they went from the current imperial size to the very close but a bit smaller metric size (or vice versa). If the problem is within the keel it is a much bigger problem. Mike Persistence Halifax, NS -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Colin Binkley via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 10:34 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Colin Binkley Subject: Stus-List Keel bolts Certainly there must be a way to flush and secure corroded keel bolts other than off to the foundry. Colin SV Lindsey Layne 71 C 40C #3 Presently in Great Lakes Sent from my iPhone ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Keel bolts
Colin On a previous boat on keel bolt suffered from "Galling" (look it up). It was at the threads exactly where the nut is when tightened and resulted in the nut spinning and not tightening. Inside the keel there was no problem. A local machine shop took the threads down to the next smallest size and then used a larger fender washer. Think Tap and Die but whichever term means rethreading the bolt. I believe that they went from the current imperial size to the very close but a bit smaller metric size (or vice versa). If the problem is within the keel it is a much bigger problem. Mike Persistence Halifax, NS -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Colin Binkley via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 10:34 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Colin Binkley Subject: Stus-List Keel bolts Certainly there must be a way to flush and secure corroded keel bolts other than off to the foundry. Colin SV Lindsey Layne 71 C 40C #3 Presently in Great Lakes Sent from my iPhone ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List keel bolts
Bill 1/2 cup per day is not really much water ingress...on my 35MKII water does come down the mast when it rains and accumulates under the mast step...it can move slowly show into the bilge...are you certain that is not the source of the 1/2 cup per day...If you have an issue with water getting in from below it should show up when the boat is on the hard...fill the bilge with water and it should leak out and maybe let you know where the source of the leak is...grind that area out both sides at the keel hull joint and dry well...then squeeze in some polyurethane sealant , let that cure well...cover with epoxy putty and finally with resin soaked chopped strand glass matt...what you describe does not sound that serious to me so I don't think you would need to do a major repair...but if you have the extra cash separate the keel afrom the hull and do like Wally did on his Landfall 38...that job was probably better than when it came from the factory Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I did shop-vac the bilge and wipe it dry. The water influx was slow - about 1/2 cup per day at most. But that was at the dock, sailing hard the influx might be more, i will check when I go out next. I think there has been some contact between the keel ad something hard in its past life but not too sure how hard and what repairs were done. The cracks are not in the keel structure as it is very strong but in the sump area between the bolts. I doubt the cracks extend directly to the outside hull. The leaks are probably from the CC smile to the hull-keel interface. I am bobing about on a 750'x137’ drillship watching a cold front pass by - we are getting 30knt sustained outside, sea’s don’t look too bad from 80’ up - maybe 10-14’. check out: http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA *Bill Hoyne* Mithrandir ’74 CC35 MkII in Victoria,BC On Nov 24, 2014, at 3:00 PM, Bob Bingham via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Currently working on CC 34 with the famous keel smile. Previously repaired by boat shop a few years back and has returned. After haul out I cleaned out seem filled with 4200 ,torque bolts to 300 ft. lbs and then covered with 2 layer matt , 2 layers cloth another matt and final layer of cloth using West System. Each layer was a bit wider starting at 1 in.and ending around 5 in..Inter protect in spring as weather is now going downhill. Will know if it works after haul out next year. Minimal cost so worth the try. On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to cnc-list@cnc-list.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com You can reach the person managing the list at cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of CnC-List digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: keel bolts (mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net) 2. Re: keel bolts (Della Barba, Joe) 3. Re: Using 12v trickle charger to test components? (Marek Dziedzic) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 + From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts Message-ID: 134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that strangely enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past summer. The PO had told me about a hard grounding. I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of CC experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage. I re-launched on Friday and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be $$. At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself. Mike Atacama CnC 33 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r?seau de Bell. -- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:32:40 + From: Della Barba, Joe joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts Message-ID: 650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes - having cracks through the bottom of the boat is not a trivial thing to fix. A friends boat had an issue like this that was repaired
Re: Stus-List keel bolts
If it rains I get MORE than ½ cup per day. I suspect you have cracks in the interior gelcoat and water getting in around the keel bolts, rain, stuffing box leakage, and other random sources of water. Tightening the keel bolts next time the boat is out of the water is easy enough. If you actually have a crack THROUGH the hull in the keel sump area, this is a pretty major issue. I am guessing you do not. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:13 AM To: Bill Hoyne; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts Bill 1/2 cup per day is not really much water ingress...on my 35MKII water does come down the mast when it rains and accumulates under the mast step...it can move slowly show into the bilge...are you certain that is not the source of the 1/2 cup per day...If you have an issue with water getting in from below it should show up when the boat is on the hard...fill the bilge with water and it should leak out and maybe let you know where the source of the leak is...grind that area out both sides at the keel hull joint and dry well...then squeeze in some polyurethane sealant , let that cure well...cover with epoxy putty and finally with resin soaked chopped strand glass matt...what you describe does not sound that serious to me so I don't think you would need to do a major repair...but if you have the extra cash separate the keel afrom the hull and do like Wally did on his Landfall 38...that job was probably better than when it came from the factory Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.netmailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I did shop-vac the bilge and wipe it dry. The water influx was slow - about 1/2 cup per day at most. But that was at the dock, sailing hard the influx might be more, i will check when I go out next. I think there has been some contact between the keel ad something hard in its past life but not too sure how hard and what repairs were done. The cracks are not in the keel structure as it is very strong but in the sump area between the bolts. I doubt the cracks extend directly to the outside hull. The leaks are probably from the CC smile to the hull-keel interface. I am bobing about on a 750'x137’ drillship watching a cold front pass by - we are getting 30knt sustained outside, sea’s don’t look too bad from 80’ up - maybe 10-14’. check out: http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA Bill Hoyne Mithrandir ’74 CC35 MkII in Victoria,BC On Nov 24, 2014, at 3:00 PM, Bob Bingham via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Currently working on CC 34 with the famous keel smile. Previously repaired by boat shop a few years back and has returned. After haul out I cleaned out seem filled with 4200 ,torque bolts to 300 ft. lbs and then covered with 2 layer matt , 2 layers cloth another matt and final layer of cloth using West System. Each layer was a bit wider starting at 1 in.and ending around 5 in..Inter protect in spring as weather is now going downhill. Will know if it works after haul out next year. Minimal cost so worth the try. On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com You can reach the person managing the list at cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of CnC-List digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: keel bolts (mcrom...@bell.blackberry.netmailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net) 2. Re: keel bolts (Della Barba, Joe) 3. Re: Using 12v trickle charger to test components? (Marek Dziedzic) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 + From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.netmailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts Message-ID: 134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberrymailto:134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that strangely enough didn't go
Re: Stus-List keel bolts
Keel seepage would concern me particularly in salt water. Not just the annoyance factor but the thought of anaerobic corrosion of the stainless keel bolts. If this has been going on for some time I'd be inclined to drop the keel, inspect the bolts and do a Wally style re-bed. It's expensive and I may be over thinking this but the peace of mind it would bring while offshore in 45 knots may be worth it. Cheers Brent Driedger 27-5 Lake Winnipeg Sent from my iPhone On Nov 24, 2014, at 11:12 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Glad your trip was yesterday. Forecast today is for 70 km/hr winds with gusts to 100 along the shore. Docking would have been interesting to say the least. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 + From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts Message-ID: 134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that strangely enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past summer. The PO had told me about a hard grounding. I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of CC experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage. I re-launched on Friday and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be $$. At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself. Mike Atacama CnC 33 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r?seau de Bell. ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List keel bolts
That's exactly why I got my boat checked by a surveyor with lots of CnC experience once I realized fixing my bilge leak wasn't just a matter of tightening the keel bolts. He figured that the starboard side of the keel stub had delaminated from the internal filler. Mike Atacama CnC 33 Mk ii Toronto Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell. -Original Message- From: Robert Abbott via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sender: CnC-List cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:26:07 To: dwight veinotdwight...@gmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com; Bill Hoyneho...@telus.net Reply-To: Robert Abbott robertabb...@eastlink.ca, cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List keel bolts ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List keel bolts
Thanks for the info, when I am on the hard next I will try this. I am certain is it coming from the small cracks from visual observations. I wonder if Wally would like to leave the sunny south and make a trip up to the frozen north for a little hull repair work ;-) Cheers, Bill On Nov 26, 2014, at 7:13 AM, dwight veinot dwight...@gmail.com wrote: Bill 1/2 cup per day is not really much water ingress...on my 35MKII water does come down the mast when it rains and accumulates under the mast step...it can move slowly show into the bilge...are you certain that is not the source of the 1/2 cup per day...If you have an issue with water getting in from below it should show up when the boat is on the hard...fill the bilge with water and it should leak out and maybe let you know where the source of the leak is...grind that area out both sides at the keel hull joint and dry well...then squeeze in some polyurethane sealant , let that cure well...cover with epoxy putty and finally with resin soaked chopped strand glass matt...what you describe does not sound that serious to me so I don't think you would need to do a major repair...but if you have the extra cash separate the keel afrom the hull and do like Wally did on his Landfall 38...that job was probably better than when it came from the factory Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I did shop-vac the bilge and wipe it dry. The water influx was slow - about 1/2 cup per day at most. But that was at the dock, sailing hard the influx might be more, i will check when I go out next. I think there has been some contact between the keel ad something hard in its past life but not too sure how hard and what repairs were done. The cracks are not in the keel structure as it is very strong but in the sump area between the bolts. I doubt the cracks extend directly to the outside hull. The leaks are probably from the CC smile to the hull-keel interface. I am bobing about on a 750'x137’ drillship watching a cold front pass by - we are getting 30knt sustained outside, sea’s don’t look too bad from 80’ up - maybe 10-14’. check out: http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA Bill Hoyne Mithrandir ’74 CC35 MkII in Victoria,BC On Nov 24, 2014, at 3:00 PM, Bob Bingham via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Currently working on CC 34 with the famous keel smile. Previously repaired by boat shop a few years back and has returned. After haul out I cleaned out seem filled with 4200 ,torque bolts to 300 ft. lbs and then covered with 2 layer matt , 2 layers cloth another matt and final layer of cloth using West System. Each layer was a bit wider starting at 1 in.and ending around 5 in..Inter protect in spring as weather is now going downhill. Will know if it works after haul out next year. Minimal cost so worth the try. On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com You can reach the person managing the list at cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of CnC-List digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: keel bolts (mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net mailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net) 2. Re: keel bolts (Della Barba, Joe) 3. Re: Using 12v trickle charger to test components? (Marek Dziedzic) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 + From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net mailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts Message-ID: 134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry mailto:134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that strangely enough didn't go
Re: Stus-List keel bolts
Hi Joe, i watched the water come in through the small cracks in the bilge sump. I have a dripless shaft seal and everything else looks dry, however I do get water from the mast but I vacuumed that out when I cleaned the bilge. Hopefully the thru-hulls are OK so far so good. Cheers, Bill On Nov 26, 2014, at 9:07 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: If it rains I get MORE than ½ cup per day. I suspect you have cracks in the interior gelcoat and water getting in around the keel bolts, rain, stuffing box leakage, and other random sources of water. Tightening the keel bolts next time the boat is out of the water is easy enough. If you actually have a crack THROUGH the hull in the keel sump area, this is a pretty major issue. I am guessing you do not. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:13 AM To: Bill Hoyne; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts Bill 1/2 cup per day is not really much water ingress...on my 35MKII water does come down the mast when it rains and accumulates under the mast step...it can move slowly show into the bilge...are you certain that is not the source of the 1/2 cup per day...If you have an issue with water getting in from below it should show up when the boat is on the hard...fill the bilge with water and it should leak out and maybe let you know where the source of the leak is...grind that area out both sides at the keel hull joint and dry well...then squeeze in some polyurethane sealant , let that cure well...cover with epoxy putty and finally with resin soaked chopped strand glass matt...what you describe does not sound that serious to me so I don't think you would need to do a major repair...but if you have the extra cash separate the keel afrom the hull and do like Wally did on his Landfall 38...that job was probably better than when it came from the factory Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I did shop-vac the bilge and wipe it dry. The water influx was slow - about 1/2 cup per day at most. But that was at the dock, sailing hard the influx might be more, i will check when I go out next. I think there has been some contact between the keel ad something hard in its past life but not too sure how hard and what repairs were done. The cracks are not in the keel structure as it is very strong but in the sump area between the bolts. I doubt the cracks extend directly to the outside hull. The leaks are probably from the CC smile to the hull-keel interface. I am bobing about on a 750'x137’ drillship watching a cold front pass by - we are getting 30knt sustained outside, sea’s don’t look too bad from 80’ up - maybe 10-14’. check out: http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA Bill Hoyne Mithrandir ’74 CC35 MkII in Victoria,BC On Nov 24, 2014, at 3:00 PM, Bob Bingham via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Currently working on CC 34 with the famous keel smile. Previously repaired by boat shop a few years back and has returned. After haul out I cleaned out seem filled with 4200 ,torque bolts to 300 ft. lbs and then covered with 2 layer matt , 2 layers cloth another matt and final layer of cloth using West System. Each layer was a bit wider starting at 1 in.and ending around 5 in..Inter protect in spring as weather is now going downhill. Will know if it works after haul out next year. Minimal cost so worth the try. On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com You can reach the person managing the list at cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of CnC-List digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: keel bolts (mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net mailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net) 2. Re: keel bolts (Della Barba, Joe) 3. Re: Using 12v trickle charger
Re: Stus-List keel bolts
Yes!! this is why i am asking. So far the keel bolts look good i.e. no water leaking around them. Sailing on the peg has got to be about as close to offshore as you can get!! +40 and -40 !! Cheers, Bill On Nov 26, 2014, at 9:45 AM, Brent Driedger via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Keel seepage would concern me particularly in salt water. Not just the annoyance factor but the thought of anaerobic corrosion of the stainless keel bolts. If this has been going on for some time I'd be inclined to drop the keel, inspect the bolts and do a Wally style re-bed. It's expensive and I may be over thinking this but the peace of mind it would bring while offshore in 45 knots may be worth it. Cheers Brent Driedger 27-5 Lake Winnipeg Sent from my iPhone On Nov 24, 2014, at 11:12 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Glad your trip was yesterday. Forecast today is for 70 km/hr winds with gusts to 100 along the shore. Docking would have been interesting to say the least. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 + From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net mailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts Message-ID: 134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry mailto:134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that strangely enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past summer. The PO had told me about a hard grounding. I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of CC experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage. I re-launched on Friday and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be $$. At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself. Mike Atacama CnC 33 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r?seau de Bell. ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List keel bolts
downhill. Will know if it works after haul out next year. Minimal cost so worth the try. On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com You can reach the person managing the list at cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of CnC-List digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: keel bolts (mcrom...@bell.blackberry.netmailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net) 2. Re: keel bolts (Della Barba, Joe) 3. Re: Using 12v trickle charger to test components? (Marek Dziedzic) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 + From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.netmailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts Message-ID: 134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberrymailto:134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that strangely enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past summer. The PO had told me about a hard grounding. I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of CC experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage. I re-launched on Friday and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be $$. At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself. Mike Atacama CnC 33 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r?seau de Bell. -- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:32:40 + From: Della Barba, Joe joe.della.ba...@ssa.govmailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov To: cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts Message-ID: 650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.govmailto:650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes - having cracks through the bottom of the boat is not a trivial thing to fix. A friends boat had an issue like this that was repaired in a quickie put-epoxy-on-it manner and it opened up while he was out. That trip was not fun :( His crack was above the keel, so we could get at it with the keel on. We ground it out and added layers of glass and epoxy outside and then did the same on the inside. I can't say it is perfect, but it is about 500 times stronger than the last repair. Also you might want to make SURE that is where the water coming from. I would shop vac and towel dry the bilge and watch it very carefully. The 35 MK I and II keel structure is pretty strong and I would say cracks through the boat aren't common. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert Abbott via CnC-List Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 10:00 AM To: Jim Watts; cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com; Bill Hoyne Subject: Stus-List keel bolts Bill: I would tend to agree with Jim Watts.have someone knowledgeable inspect your boat. It is not normal to have cracks in the sump that are leaking water. I would not simply cover up the cracks without knowing how significant they are. Did your boat experience a 'hard grounding'? Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2014/11/23 12:57 AM, Jim Watts via CnC-List wrote: Sounds like a pro job to me. I would talk to Blackline and get their opinion. Jim Watts Paradigm Shift CC 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 22 November 2014 at 12:02, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I blasted out to Victoria to escape the frigid Alberta cold for a week or so. So I thought a little biking and messing around in the bilge would be fun. The water in the bilge was a bit salty and the mild steel plates below the keel bolts were badly corroded so I replaced some of the plates with some 3/8 316SS. I cleaned out the bilge and watched. When I removed the bolts, one at a time :-) there was no seepage around the bolts - a good sign I think. However there are some cracks in the sump area between the keel bolts
Re: Stus-List keel bolts
, Bob Bingham via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Currently working on CC 34 with the famous keel smile. Previously repaired by boat shop a few years back and has returned. After haul out I cleaned out seem filled with 4200 ,torque bolts to 300 ft. lbs and then covered with 2 layer matt , 2 layers cloth another matt and final layer of cloth using West System. Each layer was a bit wider starting at 1 in.and ending around 5 in..Inter protect in spring as weather is now going downhill. Will know if it works after haul out next year. Minimal cost so worth the try. On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to cnc-list@cnc-list.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com You can reach the person managing the list at cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of CnC-List digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: keel bolts (mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net) 2. Re: keel bolts (Della Barba, Joe) 3. Re: Using 12v trickle charger to test components? (Marek Dziedzic) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 + From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts Message-ID: 134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that strangely enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past summer. The PO had told me about a hard grounding. I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of CC experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage. I re-launched on Friday and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be $$. At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself. Mike Atacama CnC 33 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r?seau de Bell. -- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:32:40 + From: Della Barba, Joe joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts Message-ID: 650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes - having cracks through the bottom of the boat is not a trivial thing to fix. A friends boat had an issue like this that was repaired in a quickie put-epoxy-on-it manner and it opened up while he was out. That trip was not fun :( His crack was above the keel, so we could get at it with the keel on. We ground it out and added layers of glass and epoxy outside and then did the same on the inside. I can't say it is perfect, but it is about 500 times stronger than the last repair. Also you might want to make SURE that is where the water coming from. I would shop vac and towel dry the bilge and watch it very carefully. The 35 MK I and II keel structure is pretty strong and I would say cracks through the boat aren't common. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert Abbott via CnC-List Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 10:00 AM To: Jim Watts; cnc-list@cnc-list.com; Bill Hoyne Subject: Stus-List keel bolts Bill: I would tend to agree with Jim Watts.have someone knowledgeable inspect your boat. It is not normal to have cracks in the sump that are leaking water. I would not simply cover up the cracks without knowing how significant they are. Did your boat experience a 'hard grounding'? Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2014/11/23 12:57 AM, Jim Watts via CnC-List wrote: Sounds like a pro job to me. I would talk to Blackline and get their opinion. Jim Watts Paradigm Shift CC 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 22 November 2014 at 12:02, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I blasted out to Victoria to escape the frigid Alberta cold for a week or so. So I thought a little biking and messing around in the bilge would be fun. The water in the bilge was a bit salty and the mild steel plates below the keel bolts were badly corroded so I replaced some of the plates with some 3/8 316SS. I cleaned out the bilge and watched. When I removed the bolts, one at a time
Re: Stus-List Keel Bolts
I've been following the conversation about Keel Bolts and cracks. While we didn't build your boats, I do have some general advice... Cracks - It is easy to think that a crack indicates something is breaking. Really, it means that something HAS BROKEN. A crack around the keel is potentially very serious. If it is just the CC smile, not as serious, but if you find cracks in the laminate, or the structure or any of the tabbing, get it looked at! They will not heal themselves, and the consequences are really, really bad. Addressed early, the repairs may not even be too expensive. Torque In some of these threads, it seems like people are going to extremes torqing up the nuts. My guess is that you are trying to lift the keel up to the hull with the nuts. Don't do that! I don't know the exact bolts you may have, so I can't give you exact numbers, but that information is easy to find. All over torquing does is increases the odds of stripping, galling or breaking a bolt. Even if you don't cause your keel to fall off, breaking a bolt is a huge headache. The proper tool is the Travellift and a good operator. To re-seat the keel, make sure that the travellift sits the hull down flush on the keel. The nuts are just there to keep it there. Happy Thanksgiving Will Harris CC Yachts ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Keel Bolts
Thanks for the advice: On Nov 26, 2014, at 12:50 PM, Will Harris via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I've been following the conversation about Keel Bolts and cracks. While we didn't build your boats, I do have some general advice... Cracks - It is easy to think that a crack indicates something is breaking. Really, it means that something HAS BROKEN. A crack around the keel is potentially very serious. If it is just the CC smile, not as serious, but if you find cracks in the laminate, or the structure or any of the tabbing, get it looked at! They will not heal themselves, and the consequences are really, really bad. Addressed early, the repairs may not even be too expensive. When I get on the hard in the spring i can check where the cracks are coming from and how serious they are (I hope) Torque In some of these threads, it seems like people are going to extremes torqing up the nuts. My guess is that you are trying to lift the keel up to the hull with the nuts. Don't do that! I don't know the exact bolts you may have, so I can't give you exact numbers, but that information is easy to find. All over torquing does is increases the odds of stripping, galling or breaking a bolt. Even if you don't cause your keel to fall off, breaking a bolt is a huge headache. I agree. There is no point in over torquing and trying to lift the keel while the boat is in the water seems difficult and senseless. The proper tool is the Travellift and a good operator. To re-seat the keel, make sure that the travellift sits the hull down flush on the keel. The nuts are just there to keep it there. We will see what happens in the spring!! Happy Thanksgiving Hope you all have a Happy Thanksgiving and eat lots of turkey!! Bill Will Harris CC Yachts ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Keel Bolts
Will, as someone who is going to be lifting the hull off of my keel in a month or so, thanks for sound advice. Happy Thanksgiving to you too. Best, Dave Godwin 1982 CC 37 - Ronin Reedville - Chesapeake Bay Ronin’s Overdue Refit http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/ On Nov 26, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Will Harris via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I've been following the conversation about Keel Bolts and cracks. While we didn't build your boats, I do have some general advice... Cracks - It is easy to think that a crack indicates something is breaking. Really, it means that something HAS BROKEN. A crack around the keel is potentially very serious. If it is just the CC smile, not as serious, but if you find cracks in the laminate, or the structure or any of the tabbing, get it looked at! They will not heal themselves, and the consequences are really, really bad. Addressed early, the repairs may not even be too expensive. Torque In some of these threads, it seems like people are going to extremes torqing up the nuts. My guess is that you are trying to lift the keel up to the hull with the nuts. Don't do that! I don't know the exact bolts you may have, so I can't give you exact numbers, but that information is easy to find. All over torquing does is increases the odds of stripping, galling or breaking a bolt. Even if you don't cause your keel to fall off, breaking a bolt is a huge headache. The proper tool is the Travellift and a good operator. To re-seat the keel, make sure that the travellift sits the hull down flush on the keel. The nuts are just there to keep it there. Happy Thanksgiving Will Harris CC Yachts ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List keel bolts
I did shop-vac the bilge and wipe it dry. The water influx was slow - about 1/2 cup per day at most. But that was at the dock, sailing hard the influx might be more, i will check when I go out next. I think there has been some contact between the keel ad something hard in its past life but not too sure how hard and what repairs were done. The cracks are not in the keel structure as it is very strong but in the sump area between the bolts. I doubt the cracks extend directly to the outside hull. The leaks are probably from the CC smile to the hull-keel interface. I am bobing about on a 750'x137’ drillship watching a cold front pass by - we are getting 30knt sustained outside, sea’s don’t look too bad from 80’ up - maybe 10-14’. check out: http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA Bill Hoyne Mithrandir ’74 CC35 MkII in Victoria,BC On Nov 24, 2014, at 3:00 PM, Bob Bingham via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Currently working on CC 34 with the famous keel smile. Previously repaired by boat shop a few years back and has returned. After haul out I cleaned out seem filled with 4200 ,torque bolts to 300 ft. lbs and then covered with 2 layer matt , 2 layers cloth another matt and final layer of cloth using West System. Each layer was a bit wider starting at 1 in.and ending around 5 in..Inter protect in spring as weather is now going downhill. Will know if it works after haul out next year. Minimal cost so worth the try. On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com You can reach the person managing the list at cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of CnC-List digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: keel bolts (mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net mailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net) 2. Re: keel bolts (Della Barba, Joe) 3. Re: Using 12v trickle charger to test components? (Marek Dziedzic) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 + From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net mailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts Message-ID: 134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that strangely enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past summer. The PO had told me about a hard grounding. I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of CC experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage. I re-launched on Friday and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be $$. At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself. Mike Atacama CnC 33 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r?seau de Bell. -- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:32:40 + From: Della Barba, Joe joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts Message-ID: 650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov mailto:650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes - having cracks through the bottom of the boat is not a trivial thing to fix. A friends boat had an issue like this that was repaired in a quickie put-epoxy-on-it manner and it opened up while he was out. That trip was not fun :( His crack was above the keel, so we could get at it with the keel on. We ground it out and added layers of glass and epoxy outside and then did the same on the inside. I can't say it is perfect, but it is about 500 times stronger than the last repair. Also you might want to make SURE that is where the water coming from. I would shop vac and towel dry the bilge and watch it very carefully. The 35 MK I and II keel structure
Re: Stus-List keel bolts
Some ship! What's your job if I might ask? Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md - Original Message - From: CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: Bob Bingham homepor...@gmail.com, CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 12:28:52 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts I did shop-vac the bilge and wipe it dry. The water influx was slow - about 1/2 cup per day at most. But that was at the dock, sailing hard the influx might be more, i will check when I go out next. I think there has been some contact between the keel ad something hard in its past life but not too sure how hard and what repairs were done. The cracks are not in the keel structure as it is very strong but in the sump area between the bolts. I doubt the cracks extend directly to the outside hull. The leaks are probably from the CC smile to the hull-keel interface. I am bobing about on a 750'x137’ drillship watching a cold front pass by - we are getting 30knt sustained outside, sea’s don’t look too bad from 80’ up - maybe 10-14’. check out: http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA Bill Hoyne Mithrandir ’74 CC35 MkII in Victoria,BC On Nov 24, 2014, at 3:00 PM, Bob Bingham via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Currently working on CC 34 with the famous keel smile. Previously repaired by boat shop a few years back and has returned. After haul out I cleaned out seem filled with 4200 ,torque bolts to 300 ft. lbs and then covered with 2 layer matt , 2 layers cloth another matt and final layer of cloth using West System. Each layer was a bit wider starting at 1 in.and ending around 5 in..Inter protect in spring as weather is now going downhill. Will know if it works after haul out next year. Minimal cost so worth the try. On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: blockquote Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to cnc-list@cnc-list.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com You can reach the person managing the list at cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of CnC-List digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: keel bolts ( mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net ) 2. Re: keel bolts (Della Barba, Joe) 3. Re: Using 12v trickle charger to test components? (Marek Dziedzic) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 + From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts Message-ID: 134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that strangely enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past summer. The PO had told me about a hard grounding. I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of CC experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage. I re-launched on Friday and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be $$. At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself. Mike Atacama CnC 33 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r?seau de Bell. -- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:32:40 + From: Della Barba, Joe joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts Message-ID: 650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes - having cracks through the bottom of the boat is not a trivial thing to fix. A friends boat had an issue like this that was repaired in a quickie put-epoxy-on-it manner and it opened up while he was out. That trip was not fun :( His crack was above the keel, so we could get at it with the keel on. We ground it out and added layers of glass and epoxy outside and then did the same on the inside. I can't say it is perfect, but it is about 500 times stronger than the last repair. Also you might want to make SURE that is where the water coming from. I would shop vac and towel dry the bilge and watch it very carefully. The 35 MK I and II keel structure is pretty strong and I would say cracks through the boat aren't common. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com ] On Behalf Of Robert Abbott via CnC-List Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 10:00 AM To: Jim Watts; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List keel bolts
I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that strangely enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past summer. The PO had told me about a hard grounding. I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of CC experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage. I re-launched on Friday and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be $$. At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself. Mike Atacama CnC 33 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell. ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List keel bolts
Yes - having cracks through the bottom of the boat is not a trivial thing to fix. A friends boat had an issue like this that was repaired in a quickie put-epoxy-on-it manner and it opened up while he was out. That trip was not fun :( His crack was above the keel, so we could get at it with the keel on. We ground it out and added layers of glass and epoxy outside and then did the same on the inside. I can't say it is perfect, but it is about 500 times stronger than the last repair. Also you might want to make SURE that is where the water coming from. I would shop vac and towel dry the bilge and watch it very carefully. The 35 MK I and II keel structure is pretty strong and I would say cracks through the boat aren't common. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert Abbott via CnC-List Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 10:00 AM To: Jim Watts; cnc-list@cnc-list.com; Bill Hoyne Subject: Stus-List keel bolts Bill: I would tend to agree with Jim Watts.have someone knowledgeable inspect your boat. It is not normal to have cracks in the sump that are leaking water. I would not simply cover up the cracks without knowing how significant they are. Did your boat experience a 'hard grounding'? Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2014/11/23 12:57 AM, Jim Watts via CnC-List wrote: Sounds like a pro job to me. I would talk to Blackline and get their opinion. Jim Watts Paradigm Shift CC 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 22 November 2014 at 12:02, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I blasted out to Victoria to escape the frigid Alberta cold for a week or so. So I thought a little biking and messing around in the bilge would be fun. The water in the bilge was a bit salty and the mild steel plates below the keel bolts were badly corroded so I replaced some of the plates with some 3/8 316SS. I cleaned out the bilge and watched. When I removed the bolts, one at a time :-) there was no seepage around the bolts - a good sign I think. However there are some cracks in the sump area between the keel bolts and these are seeping water at about 100ml/day. I didn't go out for a sail so assume there would be more water ingress when the keel is under some stress. Is there some way to seal these cracks without dropping the keel? What is the thickness from the bottom of the bilge to the top of the keel stub? Can I just pour some epoxy in the the sump area? Thanks!! Bill Hoyne Mithrandir '74 CC35 MkII in Victoria,BC ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List keel bolts
Glad your trip was yesterday. Forecast today is for 70 km/hr winds with gusts to 100 along the shore. Docking would have been interesting to say the least. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 + From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts Message-ID: 134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that strangely enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past summer. The PO had told me about a hard grounding. I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of CC experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage. I re-launched on Friday and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be $$. At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself. Mike Atacama CnC 33 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r?seau de Bell. ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List keel bolts
Sounds like a pro job to me. I would talk to Blackline and get their opinion. Jim Watts Paradigm Shift CC 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 22 November 2014 at 12:02, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I blasted out to Victoria to escape the frigid Alberta cold for a week or so. So I thought a little biking and messing around in the bilge would be fun. The water in the bilge was a bit salty and the mild steel plates below the keel bolts were badly corroded so I replaced some of the plates with some 3/8” 316SS. I cleaned out the bilge and watched. When I removed the bolts, one at a time :-) there was no seepage around the bolts - a good sign I think. However there are some cracks in the sump area between the keel bolts and these are seeping water at about 100ml/day. I didn’t go out for a sail so assume there would be more water ingress when the keel is under some stress. Is there some way to seal these cracks without dropping the keel? What is the thickness from the bottom of the bilge to the top of the keel stub? Can I just pour some epoxy in the the sump area? Thanks!! *Bill Hoyne* Mithrandir ’74 CC35 MkII in Victoria,BC ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com