Re: Stus-List Folding props
A bit late to this thread but again, but another chuckle when recognizing a very similar experience. As Martin said about those years in the late 70’s, my friend Charlie and I were asked to help out new owners of a 3/4 ton IOR boat of which I can’t remember the name, designer or builder. It was black. Anyway, neither the owners nor their crew had spent much time on a race boat. Charlie and I had not much more experience but somehow were designated the “experts.” The race went badly for us. Very, very badly. Amateurs vs Pros. As Charlie said, “the only thing missing with this circus is the tent covering it…”. The one thing that I did know moderately well was how to do was dock a boat. Especially with a folding prop. So we’re on the way back to the slip, alcoholic beverages in abundance and so forth. I was at the tiller and telling one of the owners that I was going to back the boat into its slip when we got back to the marina. The owner said that he liked to dock bow-in and that he would take the helm. Fine by me. So there we were coming into the slip at flank speed. I mentioned that maybe he might want to slow her down a bit but he said he had done this before and would apply full reverse as needed. As many have found out, full reverse works well. If given enough time and distance. Neither of which we had in any measurable amount when he put it in reverse gear and raised the throttle. The boat hit so hard the bow rode two feet up that dock with appropriately expense crunching sounds. And back down. Charlie and I grabbed our kit and took off for Marmadukes hoping no-one we knew saw us. Never saw those guys race that boat again, either… Cheers, Dave Godwin 1982 C 37 - Ronin Reedville - Chesapeake Bay Ronin’s Overdue Refit <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/> > On Dec 22, 2015, at 4:47 PM, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List > <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > > > The time it takes between putting her into reverse and actually moving > > backward with flow over the rudder is what can take several seconds with a > > folder… If other things are happening nearby (current, wind, pilings, > > etc.), these few seconds can seem like a very long time!. > > > Back in the mid 70’s I was crewing on a C 39. The local rock star > sailmaker was onboard for an event on Lake Washington related to Seattle > Yacht Club’s Opening Day parade. A few adult beverages may have been > consumed in the process of crossing the lake to join a party at another > competitor’s lake front home. > > When it was pointed out to the rock star he was pointing the 39’s bow into a > covered slip, he quickly hit reverse (A4 engine, Martec folding prop) and > added throttle. With the standard delay in actually retarding the vessel’s > forward motion the 39’s forestay (Stearn’s twin stay IIRC) made a noticeable > twanging sound as it hit the metal roof over the slip. > > It was hard to find the rock star at the party that afternoon. Years later > that rock star became Calypso’s insurance agent. I don’t think he ever > forgot how long it takes to reverse direction with a folding prop. > > Martin DeYoung > Calypso > 1971 C 43 > Seattle > > > > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com > <mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>] On Behalf Of Charlie Nelson via > CnC-List > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 12:20 PM > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Cc: cenel...@aol.com <mailto:cenel...@aol.com> > Subject: Stus-List Folding props > > I was not referring to feathering props. As I understand them, they are > designed to be about equal in forward or reverse. > My former Max-Prop 3 blade feathering prop was excellent and relatively > quickly got the boat going in reverse. > > Any geared folding 2-blade prop will get a boat moving in reverse--just not > very efficiently--especially if it is optimized for forward motion > and minimum drag when folded. > > The time it takes between putting her into reverse and actually moving > backward with flow over the rudder is what can take several seconds with a > folder.. > > If other things are happening nearby (current, wind, pilings, etc.), these > few seconds can seem like a very long time!. > > Charlie Nelson > C 36 XL/kcb > Water Phantom > > cenel...@aol.com > <mailto:cenel...@aol.com>___ > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom > of page at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > <http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com> ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Folding props
I was not referring to feathering props. As I understand them, they are designed to be about equal in forward or reverse. My former Max-Prop 3 blade feathering prop was excellent and relatively quickly got the boat going in reverse. Any geared folding 2-blade prop will get a boat moving in reverse--just not very efficiently--especially if it is optimized for forward motion and minimum drag when folded. The time it takes between putting her into reverse and actually moving backward with flow over the rudder is what can take several seconds with a folder.. If other things are happening nearby (current, wind, pilings, etc.), these few seconds can seem like a very long time!. Charlie Nelson C 36 XL/kcb Water Phantom cenel...@aol.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Folding props
> The time it takes between putting her into reverse and actually moving > backward with flow over the rudder is what can take several seconds with a > folder… If other things are happening nearby (current, wind, pilings, etc.), > these few seconds can seem like a very long time!. Back in the mid 70’s I was crewing on a C 39. The local rock star sailmaker was onboard for an event on Lake Washington related to Seattle Yacht Club’s Opening Day parade. A few adult beverages may have been consumed in the process of crossing the lake to join a party at another competitor’s lake front home. When it was pointed out to the rock star he was pointing the 39’s bow into a covered slip, he quickly hit reverse (A4 engine, Martec folding prop) and added throttle. With the standard delay in actually retarding the vessel’s forward motion the 39’s forestay (Stearn’s twin stay IIRC) made a noticeable twanging sound as it hit the metal roof over the slip. It was hard to find the rock star at the party that afternoon. Years later that rock star became Calypso’s insurance agent. I don’t think he ever forgot how long it takes to reverse direction with a folding prop. Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 C 43 Seattle [Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F] From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Nelson via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 12:20 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: cenel...@aol.com Subject: Stus-List Folding props I was not referring to feathering props. As I understand them, they are designed to be about equal in forward or reverse. My former Max-Prop 3 blade feathering prop was excellent and relatively quickly got the boat going in reverse. Any geared folding 2-blade prop will get a boat moving in reverse--just not very efficiently--especially if it is optimized for forward motion and minimum drag when folded. The time it takes between putting her into reverse and actually moving backward with flow over the rudder is what can take several seconds with a folder.. If other things are happening nearby (current, wind, pilings, etc.), these few seconds can seem like a very long time!. Charlie Nelson C 36 XL/kcb Water Phantom cenel...@aol.com<mailto:cenel...@aol.com> ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Folding props
Great story! When I bought windstar (33ii) she had the original very worn folding (non-geared) Martec.A series of vibrational mis-diagnoses let me through a brand new (2014) gori folding and a slightly too-large fixed two blade.The Martec was awful in reverse, attributed (by Martec) to wear. The difference between the new gori and the fixed two blade is effectively indiscernible under power incl. in reverse, but the folding prop rules under sail in light air. That said, I rarely parallel park in an 8 kt current. The gori is a work of art in bronze. I had been told that three blade fixed was the only way to get decent reverse Experts Props are a funny subject. There are strong opinions, but realistically, (and understandably) there is very little solid comparative data available for a given model of prop with a given boat. Anyway, the point of all this is to say that I think slippery boats really benefit from good folding or feathering props esp in light air, and I think that modern geared folding props are much better than those of the past, limiting the relevance of stories of past misadventures. Dave Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 21:47:23 + From: Martin DeYoung <mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding props Message-ID: <23eae197cc1b594fa8793397ebcd357de36...@dmi3.dmi.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > The time it takes between putting her into reverse and actually moving > backward with flow over the rudder is what can take several seconds with a > folder? If other things are happening nearby (current, wind, pilings, etc.), > these few seconds can seem like a very long time!. Back in the mid 70?s I was crewing on a C 39. The local rock star sailmaker was onboard for an event on Lake Washington related to Seattle Yacht Club?s Opening Day parade. A few adult beverages may have been consumed in the process of crossing the lake to join a party at another competitor?s lake front home. When it was pointed out to the rock star he was pointing the 39?s bow into a covered slip, he quickly hit reverse (A4 engine, Martec folding prop) and added throttle. With the standard delay in actually retarding the vessel?s forward motion the 39?s forestay (Stearn?s twin stay IIRC) made a noticeable twanging sound as it hit the metal roof over the slip. It was hard to find the rock star at the party that afternoon. Years later that rock star became Calypso?s insurance agent. I don?t think he ever forgot how long it takes to reverse direction with a folding prop. Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 C 43 ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Folding props
You brought a smile to my face with this one Martin!
On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 4:48 PM, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
#yiv4606771206 #yiv4606771206 -- _filtered #yiv4606771206
{font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4606771206
{font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv4606771206
#yiv4606771206 p.yiv4606771206MsoNormal, #yiv4606771206
li.yiv4606771206MsoNormal, #yiv4606771206 div.yiv4606771206MsoNormal
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4606771206 a:link,
#yiv4606771206 span.yiv4606771206MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4606771206 a:visited, #yiv4606771206
span.yiv4606771206MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4606771206
p.yiv4606771206MsoAcetate, #yiv4606771206 li.yiv4606771206MsoAcetate,
#yiv4606771206 div.yiv4606771206MsoAcetate
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv4606771206
span.yiv4606771206EmailStyle17
{color:#1F497D;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;}#yiv4606771206
span.yiv4606771206BalloonTextChar {}#yiv4606771206 .yiv4606771206MsoChpDefault
{font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv4606771206 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in
1.0in;}#yiv4606771206 div.yiv4606771206WordSection1 {}#yiv4606771206 >The time
it takes between putting her into reverse and actually moving backward with
flow over the rudder is what can take several seconds with a folder… If other
things are happening nearby (current, wind, pilings, etc.), these few seconds
can seem like a very long time!. Back in the mid 70’s I was crewing on a
C 39. The local rock star sailmaker was onboard for an event on Lake
Washington related to Seattle Yacht Club’s Opening Day parade. A few adult
beverages may have been consumed in the process of crossing the lake to join a
party at another competitor’s lake front home. When it was pointed out to
the rock star he was pointing the 39’s bow into a covered slip, he quickly hit
reverse (A4 engine, Martec folding prop) and added throttle. With the standard
delay in actually retarding the vessel’s forward motion the 39’s forestay
(Stearn’s twin stay IIRC) made a noticeable twanging sound as it hit the metal
roof over the slip. It was hard to find the rock star at the party that
afternoon. Years later that rock star became Calypso’s insurance agent. I
don’t think he ever forgot how long it takes to reverse direction with a
folding prop. Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 C 43 Seattle
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Charlie
Nelson via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 12:20 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Folding props I was not referring to feathering props. As
I understand them, they are designed to be about equal in forward or reverse.
My former Max-Prop 3 blade feathering prop was excellent and relatively quickly
got the boat going in reverse. Any geared folding 2-blade prop will get a
boat moving in reverse--just not very efficiently--especially if it is
optimized for forward motion and minimum drag when folded. The time it takes
between putting her into reverse and actually moving backward with flow over
the rudder is what can take several seconds with a folder.. If other things
are happening nearby (current, wind, pilings, etc.), these few seconds can seem
like a very long time!. Charlie Nelson C 36 XL/kcb Water Phantom
cenel...@aol.com
___
Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
___
Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
