Re: Stus-List Garhauer Sheet Lead System
Thanks Rick for the detailed explanation. I can send you a pic of how I laid it out before installation, so you can see what I mean. This is most helpful. Thanks, Alex Alex Giannelia a...@airsensing.com +1 (416) 203-9858 Office +1 (416) 529-0070 Mobile www.airsensing.com -Original Message- From: Rick Brass [mailto:rickbr...@earthlink.net] Sent: March-09-15 11:13 PM To: Alex Giannelia; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: RE: Stus-List Garhauer Sheet Lead System Alex; If I recall from earlier posts, your boat is about a 35. So I presume you have a set of Garhauer EZ-G2 adjustable cars. This is the car that has a stand up ball bearing block that swivels as the sheet lead changes. And I can see where it could be called a single sheet lead system. There is also an EZ G3 system. That has a non-swiveling block on the car that can lean outward at about 45 degrees off vertical to allow for changing sheet lead, and since the block is wider you could probably run two sheets through the block. Since this is the big boat configuration for higher sheet loads, I suspect the larger block is to accommodate larger diameter sheets, but it should also do for double sheets. Since you ask the question, I presume that you are planning to race the boat and will be doing a fair number of headsail changes. And the double sheet car would let you thread the sheets for the new sail before the hoist and extract the sheets from the old sail after the drop. If you have roller furling there is almost no need to change the sheets as you furl, you just adjust the car. I have a G2 system on my 38 (and a G1 on my 25). I now have roller furling and I quite like the flexibility of the block. When I'm furled down to 100 or 110%, the car goes forward to 3 or 4 feet behind the shrouds, and the block leans over and turns out to accommodate the sheet. When I'm reaching or running and have the sail let out, there is nothing for the sheet to rub against (OK, except the upper lifeline). I had concerns about the sheet rubbing on the outside face of the block in the G3 system. While I still had the headfoil in Imzadi and was racing, I can only recall one time I actually changed the headsail during a race. We went from the number 1 to the number 2 as conditions changed during a distance race. We hoisted the #2 inside the #1 and swapped the lazy sheets. Then we tacked and put the #1 inside the #2 and swapped the lazy sheets after the #1 was down. Probably not the optimum or quickest way to do it, but it worked for us. The tracks on both my boats run from a few inches ahead of the primary winches to a couple of feet behind the shrouds. You've not indicated how long your tracks are. My 38 used to have a #3 with a reef to make it a #4. Call it 100% to maybe 80%. When it is blowing hard enough to use the #4, I've not been beating hard into the wind and waves. Footed off a bit to accommodate the conditions, having the car 3 feet or so aft of the shrouds was not a problem. I don't believe I've ever pulled the car all the way forward on the track (except when cleaning the deck or reeving a new towline). Ditto on my 25. I flew the 65% storm jib one time, just to see how to rig it in case I ever needed to do it. I don't think I needed the car all the way forward even then - but I wasn't trying to sail at 32 degrees apparent, either. My boats are both rigged with the swivel cleat on the aft end of the genoa track. I'm sure that there is friction on the tow line where it passes the inboard side of the car, but it has never been a problem. Most of the time it isn't even noticeable because, whatever friction there is, when pulling the car forward you are overcoming several hundred pounds of load on the sheets and a bit of resistance due to friction is hardly significant. One of the things you will need to do to make the line adjustable cars work easily is to route your sheet through a turning block on the way to the winch. The objective is to keep the sheet almost level with the deck as it goes aft from the car. That way the load on the sheet between the car and the clew of the sail will tend to push the car aft when you ease the tow line. If you go from clew to car to winch, the load on the aft part of the line angling up to the winch will tend to force the car forward and it will be hard to get the car aft when you need foot of the sail to be really flat. If you are interested, I can send a couple of photos of my arrangement to you off the list. Rick Brass Imzadi CC 38 mk 2 la Belle Aurore CC 25 mk1 Washington, NC -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alex Giannelia via CnC-List Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 6:32 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Garhauer Sheet Lead System Hi folks, Long time since I was on the list. Finally launched the boat after 7.5 years on the hard and got sailing a few times last summer and now I am
Stus-List Garhauer Sheet Lead System
Hi folks, Long time since I was on the list. Finally launched the boat after 7.5 years on the hard and got sailing a few times last summer and now I am wanting to install my Garhauer sheet lead system I bought a few years ago, and am a bit concerned about how useful it actually will be. Here are some concerns: 1) I bought what appears to be a single sheet lead, as opposed to twin which is what came with the boat way back when in 1974. I recall buying at the Garhauer booth at the Toronto Intl Boat show and telling him the size of boat and that is what I got. According to their online catalogue it looks like the -2. Anybody care to comment? Is there a twin sheet lead version available? 2) there is a separate swivel cleat which mounts onto a T-track, but my question is: If you can't put it onto the same genoa track, do you need to bolt a whole new section of track to your deck? I could place it between the coaming and the track but wanted to know what others were doing. On the same track would create too much friction. 3) A comment more than a question, but even when you haul it all together, it takes up about 15 of the forward end of the track which isn't that long to begin with, so has anyone found this to be an issue when wanting to use a smaller jib? Thanks, Alex Alex Giannelia a...@airsensing.com +1 (416) 203-9858 Office +1 (416) 529-0070 Mobile www.airsensing.com -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com Sent: March-09-15 3:53 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 110, Issue 25 Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to cnc-list@cnc-list.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com You can reach the person managing the list at cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of CnC-List digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: marine stores in bangor maine (Josh Muckley) 2. Tool recommendation (Jean-Francois J Rivard) 3. Re: marine stores in bangor maine (Bill Bina - gmail) 4. Re: Tool recommendation (Marek Dziedzic) 5. Re: Tool recommendation (robert) 6. Re: marine stores in bangor maine (robert) 7. CC34 Genoa Sheet Bracket help (Mark Meyer) 8. Re: Tool recommendation (Burt Stratton) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 14:02:35 -0400 From: Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com To: CC List cnc-list@cnc-list.com, Bill Bina billbinal...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Stus-List marine stores in bangor maine Message-ID: CA+zaCRAbe1auFWETGeJ=gfiDppLJdar5Egnc8bmzMhs=cy=+b...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 That's right Bill. I tried 66 in brackish water which Interlux explained would be salty enough. It worked fine during the first season but during the first haul out it peeled off in sheets. Fortunately the yard that put it on was a certified retailer so the repair/replacement was fully covered. I seem to remember they used Micron CSC. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Mar 9, 2015 1:47 PM, Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Note that Micron 66 is strictly for salt water only. If you spend some time in brackish water, as well as salt water, you are better off with Micron Extra. Bill Bina On 3/9/2015 1:29 PM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote: Thanks Mike I will be travelling I95 South or #9 from Calais thru bangor then on to State #2 West at Newport thru Skowhegan to Sugarloaf, Me. Has been a long time since we skied there. Portland seems a few hours out of our way and we were hoping to make a quick stop at a store to buy some paint. Bob Abbott of Azura has pretty much convinced me to use Micron 66 which we cannot buy in Canada Mike *From:* Fair, Mike [mailto:mike.f...@mckesson.com mike.f...@mckesson.com] *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2015 2:22 PM *To:* Hoyt, Mike; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* RE: marine stores in bangor maine Google Hamilton Marine. They are in Portland and a couple other locations Down East. Thanks, Mike Fair 413.587.6535 *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2015 12:49 PM *To:* schiller; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Stus-List marine stores in bangor maine I will be driving through Bangor later this month and wish to pick up some paint that I cannot source in Canada. Any suggestions of a convenient place to get this? Regards Mike Persistence ___ Email
Re: Stus-List Garhauer Sheet Lead System
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Re: Stus-List Garhauer Sheet Lead System
Alex; If I recall from earlier posts, your boat is about a 35. So I presume you have a set of Garhauer EZ-G2 adjustable cars. This is the car that has a stand up ball bearing block that swivels as the sheet lead changes. And I can see where it could be called a single sheet lead system. There is also an EZ G3 system. That has a non-swiveling block on the car that can lean outward at about 45 degrees off vertical to allow for changing sheet lead, and since the block is wider you could probably run two sheets through the block. Since this is the big boat configuration for higher sheet loads, I suspect the larger block is to accommodate larger diameter sheets, but it should also do for double sheets. Since you ask the question, I presume that you are planning to race the boat and will be doing a fair number of headsail changes. And the double sheet car would let you thread the sheets for the new sail before the hoist and extract the sheets from the old sail after the drop. If you have roller furling there is almost no need to change the sheets as you furl, you just adjust the car. I have a G2 system on my 38 (and a G1 on my 25). I now have roller furling and I quite like the flexibility of the block. When I'm furled down to 100 or 110%, the car goes forward to 3 or 4 feet behind the shrouds, and the block leans over and turns out to accommodate the sheet. When I'm reaching or running and have the sail let out, there is nothing for the sheet to rub against (OK, except the upper lifeline). I had concerns about the sheet rubbing on the outside face of the block in the G3 system. While I still had the headfoil in Imzadi and was racing, I can only recall one time I actually changed the headsail during a race. We went from the number 1 to the number 2 as conditions changed during a distance race. We hoisted the #2 inside the #1 and swapped the lazy sheets. Then we tacked and put the #1 inside the #2 and swapped the lazy sheets after the #1 was down. Probably not the optimum or quickest way to do it, but it worked for us. The tracks on both my boats run from a few inches ahead of the primary winches to a couple of feet behind the shrouds. You've not indicated how long your tracks are. My 38 used to have a #3 with a reef to make it a #4. Call it 100% to maybe 80%. When it is blowing hard enough to use the #4, I've not been beating hard into the wind and waves. Footed off a bit to accommodate the conditions, having the car 3 feet or so aft of the shrouds was not a problem. I don't believe I've ever pulled the car all the way forward on the track (except when cleaning the deck or reeving a new towline). Ditto on my 25. I flew the 65% storm jib one time, just to see how to rig it in case I ever needed to do it. I don't think I needed the car all the way forward even then - but I wasn't trying to sail at 32 degrees apparent, either. My boats are both rigged with the swivel cleat on the aft end of the genoa track. I'm sure that there is friction on the tow line where it passes the inboard side of the car, but it has never been a problem. Most of the time it isn't even noticeable because, whatever friction there is, when pulling the car forward you are overcoming several hundred pounds of load on the sheets and a bit of resistance due to friction is hardly significant. One of the things you will need to do to make the line adjustable cars work easily is to route your sheet through a turning block on the way to the winch. The objective is to keep the sheet almost level with the deck as it goes aft from the car. That way the load on the sheet between the car and the clew of the sail will tend to push the car aft when you ease the tow line. If you go from clew to car to winch, the load on the aft part of the line angling up to the winch will tend to force the car forward and it will be hard to get the car aft when you need foot of the sail to be really flat. If you are interested, I can send a couple of photos of my arrangement to you off the list. Rick Brass Imzadi CC 38 mk 2 la Belle Aurore CC 25 mk1 Washington, NC -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alex Giannelia via CnC-List Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 6:32 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Garhauer Sheet Lead System Hi folks, Long time since I was on the list. Finally launched the boat after 7.5 years on the hard and got sailing a few times last summer and now I am wanting to install my Garhauer sheet lead system I bought a few years ago, and am a bit concerned about how useful it actually will be. Here are some concerns: 1) I bought what appears to be a single sheet lead, as opposed to twin which is what came with the boat way back when in 1974. I recall buying at the Garhauer booth at the Toronto Intl Boat show and telling him the size of boat and that is what I got. According to their online catalogue it looks like the -2. Anybody care to comment? Is there a twin sheet
Re: Stus-List Garhauer Sheet Lead System
Probably best if you let us know what boat you have and where you are located. I don't believe Garhauer has a twin sheet system. At least not standard in their catalog ... if you call them then you never know what they can come up with. I haven't used a twin sheet system so I can't comment on the pros and cons of that type of setup, but I don't see any issues with mounting the separate swivel-cam units on the same T-track as the cars - that's the way they are meant to be set-up ... but perhaps I'm not seeing where you are getting too much friction. The alternate generally is separate fairlead / cam cleat on or near the cockpit coaming. I expect that, if not done carefully, would become more of a tripping hazard than the track-mounted swivel-cams. I suppose you could use their deck-mount swivel jammers too. I believe a lot of users set up the towable tracks on the main T-track for their larger / furling genoas and fixed cars on forward tracks for smaller / storm jibs. Peter Fell Sidney, BC Cygnet CC 27 MkIII -Original Message- From: Alex Giannelia via CnC-List Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 3:31 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Garhauer Sheet Lead System Hi folks, Long time since I was on the list. Finally launched the boat after 7.5 years on the hard and got sailing a few times last summer and now I am wanting to install my Garhauer sheet lead system I bought a few years ago, and am a bit concerned about how useful it actually will be. Here are some concerns: 1) I bought what appears to be a single sheet lead, as opposed to twin which is what came with the boat way back when in 1974. I recall buying at the Garhauer booth at the Toronto Intl Boat show and telling him the size of boat and that is what I got. According to their online catalogue it looks like the -2. Anybody care to comment? Is there a twin sheet lead version available? 2) there is a separate swivel cleat which mounts onto a T-track, but my question is: If you can't put it onto the same genoa track, do you need to bolt a whole new section of track to your deck? I could place it between the coaming and the track but wanted to know what others were doing. On the same track would create too much friction. 3) A comment more than a question, but even when you haul it all together, it takes up about 15 of the forward end of the track which isn't that long to begin with, so has anyone found this to be an issue when wanting to use a smaller jib? Thanks, Alex Alex Giannelia a...@airsensing.com +1 (416) 203-9858 Office +1 (416) 529-0070 Mobile www.airsensing.com -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com Sent: March-09-15 3:53 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 110, Issue 25 Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to cnc-list@cnc-list.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com You can reach the person managing the list at cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of CnC-List digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: marine stores in bangor maine (Josh Muckley) 2. Tool recommendation (Jean-Francois J Rivard) 3. Re: marine stores in bangor maine (Bill Bina - gmail) 4. Re: Tool recommendation (Marek Dziedzic) 5. Re: Tool recommendation (robert) 6. Re: marine stores in bangor maine (robert) 7. CC34 Genoa Sheet Bracket help (Mark Meyer) 8. Re: Tool recommendation (Burt Stratton) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 14:02:35 -0400 From: Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com To: CC List cnc-list@cnc-list.com, Bill Bina billbinal...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Stus-List marine stores in bangor maine Message-ID: CA+zaCRAbe1auFWETGeJ=gfiDppLJdar5Egnc8bmzMhs=cy=+b...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 That's right Bill. I tried 66 in brackish water which Interlux explained would be salty enough. It worked fine during the first season but during the first haul out it peeled off in sheets. Fortunately the yard that put it on was a certified retailer so the repair/replacement was fully covered. I seem to remember they used Micron CSC. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Mar 9, 2015 1:47 PM, Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Note that Micron 66 is strictly for salt water only. If you spend some time in brackish water, as well as salt water, you are better off with Micron Extra. Bill Bina On 3/9/2015 1:29 PM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote: Thanks Mike I will be travelling I95 South or #9 from Calais thru bangor then on to State #2
