Re: Stus-List Hydraulic auto-pilot > Rack and Pinion Steering

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Let me guess — Island Packet?

I’ve heard that the rack-and-pinion has a pretty direct feel, similar to a 
cable-based steering system like most of us have.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

> On Jul 9, 2018, at 9:15 AM, Nauset Beach via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> A very timely thread…  I am beginning to look at boats for a possible change 
> and wondered about what effect either a linear or a hydraulic below deck AP 
> would have on the feel of a boat.  Having tiller steering now, any change to 
> a wheel would be “different” – but had some concern having a below deck AP 
> would make the boat feel sluggish.  Good to hear people notice little if any 
> change in the helm.  
>  
> What is the typical change over point in terms of displacement from a linear 
> mechanical to hydraulic system?  
>  
> One boat which caught my eye has rack and pinion steering, I assume from 
> Edson.  Any sense of the pros / cons of that vs the chain and wire system?  
> Would think the “direct drive” nature of it would provide near 100% feel of 
> the helm vs the chain and wire, but maybe not.  Is the maintenance simpler 
> with rack and pinion?  Clean and lube the gears [like a winch] and you are 
> done vs. all the discussion on replacing / aligning idler pulleys / plates, 
> meat hooks on the wire, etc.  
>  
> Thanks,
> Brian

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Re: Stus-List Hydraulic auto-pilot > Rack and Pinion Steering

[Nauset Beach via CnC-List]

A very timely thread…  I am beginning to look at boats for a possible change 
and wondered about what effect either a linear or a hydraulic below deck AP 
would have on the feel of a boat.  Having tiller steering now, any change to a 
wheel would be “different” – but had some concern having a below deck AP would 
make the boat feel sluggish.  Good to hear people notice little if any change 
in the helm.  

 

What is the typical change over point in terms of displacement from a linear 
mechanical to hydraulic system?  

 

One boat which caught my eye has rack and pinion steering, I assume from Edson. 
 Any sense of the pros / cons of that vs the chain and wire system?  Would 
think the “direct drive” nature of it would provide near 100% feel of the helm 
vs the chain and wire, but maybe not.  Is the maintenance simpler with rack and 
pinion?  Clean and lube the gears [like a winch] and you are done vs. all the 
discussion on replacing / aligning idler pulleys / plates, meat hooks on the 
wire, etc.  

 

Thanks,

Brian 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck 
Gilchrest via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2018 9:04 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Chuck Gilchrest 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Hydraulic auto-pilot

 

Just for the sake of clarification, the Raymarine type 1 linear actuator below 
deck auto pilot , which should be suitable for a boat your size is mechanical 
not hydraulic.  The type 2 hydraulic system is far more expensive and would be 
found on a bigger boat.  I’ve steered with both and found either to be 
reasonably free of additional friction.  

On a safety standpoint, below deck systems also serve as complete emergency 
steering systems, independent of the cables, pedestal and drive wheel.  A big 
plus!

Chuck Gilchrest 

S/V Half Magic

1983 35 Landfall 

Padanaram MA

Sent from my iPhone


On Jul 9, 2018, at 8:42 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Charlie — there’s a big difference between a full hydraulic steering system 
(like on the Whitby) and a hydraulic pilot ram.  You should feel no extra 
resistance with either an electric or hydraulic ram; the steering system will 
not change in feel from what you’re used to.

 

— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI





On Jul 8, 2018, at 7:15 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

My Raymarine wheel pilot has given up the ghost and I am considering a below 
deck hydraulic replacement. The cost is reasonable since most of my Raymarine 
stuff will be used by the hydraulic unit. 

 

My concern is how responsive (or not!) the wheel will be when the pilot is 
disengaged. With the wheel pilot, there was little difference. 

 

I have steered a boat with hydraulic steering once (a Whitby 42) whose entire 
steering (auto or not) was hydraulic. The response of

that system was so bad I swore I would never have anything to do with another 
hydraulic unit. 

 

Of course, when not engaged I understand that the pilot would not be steering 
the boat--OTOH, it is still connected in some manner.

 

Since I mostly PHRF race the boat, I need to have the wheel/rudder move without 
additional resistance from the auto-pilot. 

 

Is this something I should be concerned about or is the wheel 'free' when the 
auto-pilot is not engaged?

 

Thanks,

 

Charlie Nelson

1995 C 36 XL/kcb

Water Phantom

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Re: Stus-List Hydraulic auto-pilot

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

Charlie,

I made the switch from wheel to below deck AP.  I installed the EV-200 Sail 
Autopilot but with a hydraulic Octopus linear drive.  When the AP is not 
engaged, it is not noticeable at all and clearly has much less drag that a 
disengaged wheel pilot. 

Here are some photos and a partial write up:

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/BelowDeckAutopilotWork

-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Jul 8, 2018, at 9:47 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2018 20:15:16 -0400
> From: cenel...@aol.com <mailto:cenel...@aol.com>
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Subject: Stus-List Hydraulic auto-pilot
> Message-ID: <1647c647973-179d-d...@webjas-vaa050.srv.aolmail.net 
> <mailto:1647c647973-179d-d...@webjas-vaa050.srv.aolmail.net>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> My Raymarine wheel pilot has given up the ghost and I am considering a below 
> deck hydraulic replacement. The cost is reasonable since most of my Raymarine 
> stuff will be used by the hydraulic unit.
> 
> 
> My concern is how responsive (or not!) the wheel will be when the pilot is 
> disengaged. With the wheel pilot, there was little difference. 
> 
> 
> I have steered a boat with hydraulic steering once (a Whitby 42) whose entire 
> steering (auto or not) was hydraulic. The response of
> that system was so bad I swore I would never have anything to do with another 
> hydraulic unit. 
> 
> 
> Of course, when not engaged I understand that the pilot would not be steering 
> the boat--OTOH, it is still connected in some manner.
> 
> 
> Since I mostly PHRF race the boat, I need to have the wheel/rudder move 
> without additional resistance from the auto-pilot. 
> 
> 
> Is this something I should be concerned about or is the wheel 'free' when the 
> auto-pilot is not engaged?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Charlie Nelson
> 1995 C 36 XL/kcb
> Water Phantom
> 

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Re: Stus-List Hydraulic auto-pilot

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Just for the sake of clarification, the Raymarine type 1 linear actuator below 
deck auto pilot , which should be suitable for a boat your size is mechanical 
not hydraulic.  The type 2 hydraulic system is far more expensive and would be 
found on a bigger boat.  I’ve steered with both and found either to be 
reasonably free of additional friction.  
On a safety standpoint, below deck systems also serve as complete emergency 
steering systems, independent of the cables, pedestal and drive wheel.  A big 
plus!
Chuck Gilchrest 
S/V Half Magic
1983 35 Landfall 
Padanaram MA

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 9, 2018, at 8:42 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Charlie — there’s a big difference between a full hydraulic steering system 
> (like on the Whitby) and a hydraulic pilot ram.  You should feel no extra 
> resistance with either an electric or hydraulic ram; the steering system will 
> not change in feel from what you’re used to.
> 
> — Fred
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
> 
>> On Jul 8, 2018, at 7:15 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> My Raymarine wheel pilot has given up the ghost and I am considering a below 
>> deck hydraulic replacement. The cost is reasonable since most of my 
>> Raymarine stuff will be used by the hydraulic unit.
>> 
>> My concern is how responsive (or not!) the wheel will be when the pilot is 
>> disengaged. With the wheel pilot, there was little difference. 
>> 
>> I have steered a boat with hydraulic steering once (a Whitby 42) whose 
>> entire steering (auto or not) was hydraulic. The response of
>> that system was so bad I swore I would never have anything to do with 
>> another hydraulic unit. 
>> 
>> Of course, when not engaged I understand that the pilot would not be 
>> steering the boat--OTOH, it is still connected in some manner.
>> 
>> Since I mostly PHRF race the boat, I need to have the wheel/rudder move 
>> without additional resistance from the auto-pilot. 
>> 
>> Is this something I should be concerned about or is the wheel 'free' when 
>> the auto-pilot is not engaged?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Charlie Nelson
>> 1995 C 36 XL/kcb
>> Water Phantom
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
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Re: Stus-List Hydraulic auto-pilot

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Charlie — there’s a big difference between a full hydraulic steering system 
(like on the Whitby) and a hydraulic pilot ram.  You should feel no extra 
resistance with either an electric or hydraulic ram; the steering system will 
not change in feel from what you’re used to.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

> On Jul 8, 2018, at 7:15 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> My Raymarine wheel pilot has given up the ghost and I am considering a below 
> deck hydraulic replacement. The cost is reasonable since most of my Raymarine 
> stuff will be used by the hydraulic unit.
> 
> My concern is how responsive (or not!) the wheel will be when the pilot is 
> disengaged. With the wheel pilot, there was little difference. 
> 
> I have steered a boat with hydraulic steering once (a Whitby 42) whose entire 
> steering (auto or not) was hydraulic. The response of
> that system was so bad I swore I would never have anything to do with another 
> hydraulic unit. 
> 
> Of course, when not engaged I understand that the pilot would not be steering 
> the boat--OTOH, it is still connected in some manner.
> 
> Since I mostly PHRF race the boat, I need to have the wheel/rudder move 
> without additional resistance from the auto-pilot. 
> 
> Is this something I should be concerned about or is the wheel 'free' when the 
> auto-pilot is not engaged?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Charlie Nelson
> 1995 C 36 XL/kcb
> Water Phantom
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Re: Stus-List Hydraulic auto-pilot

[Daniel Cormier via CnC-List]

I also have a raymarine below deck hydraulic, and concur- there is no 
noticeable friction - and I love my autopilot...

Dan
Breakaweigh
C
Halifax NS


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2018, at 10:03 PM, Mark Baldridge via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Charlie,
> 
> I can't feel any friction when the AH is disabled on my below deck RayMarine 
> hydraulic. I wouldn't hesitate to go to it. Much less than the wheel pilot on 
> the the 35. You are welcome to hop on and try it out while we're in your neck 
> of the woods.
> 
> Mark Baldridge 
> ~~_/) 
> '89 C/40+ "The Edge" 
> Surf City, NC 
> 
> 
>> On 7/8/2018 8:55 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List wrote:
>> My type 1 RAM adds no noticeable friction. 
>> 
>> Joel
>> 
>>> On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 8:51 PM Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Charlie,
>>> 
>>> There’s actually more friction with the wheel pilot versus the hydraulic. 
>>> 
>>> All the best, 
>>> 
>>> Edd
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> Edd M. Schillay
>>> Captain of the Starship Enterprise 
>>> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>> City Island, New York
>>> www.StarshipSailing.com
>>> ---
>>> 914.774.9767   | Mobile
>>> ---
>>> Sent via iPhone X
>>> iPhone. iTypos. iApologize
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jul 8, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My Raymarine wheel pilot has given up the ghost and I am considering a 
>>> below deck hydraulic replacement. The cost is reasonable since most of my 
>>> Raymarine stuff will be used by the hydraulic unit.
>>> 
>>> My concern is how responsive (or not!) the wheel will be when the pilot is 
>>> disengaged. With the wheel pilot, there was little difference. 
>>> 
>>> I have steered a boat with hydraulic steering once (a Whitby 42) whose 
>>> entire steering (auto or not) was hydraulic. The response of
>>> that system was so bad I swore I would never have anything to do with 
>>> another hydraulic unit. 
>>> 
>>> Of course, when not engaged I understand that the pilot would not be 
>>> steering the boat--OTOH, it is still connected in some manner.
>>> 
>>> Since I mostly PHRF race the boat, I need to have the wheel/rudder move 
>>> without additional resistance from the auto-pilot. 
>>> 
>>> Is this something I should be concerned about or is the wheel 'free' when 
>>> the auto-pilot is not engaged?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Charlie Nelson
>>> 1995 C 36 XL/kcb
>>> Water Phantom
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> cenel...@aol.com
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>> 
>> -- 
>> Joel 
>> 301 541 8551
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
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>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
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> 
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Re: Stus-List Hydraulic auto-pilot

[Mark Baldridge via CnC-List]

Charlie,

I can't feel any friction when the AH is disabled on my below deck 
RayMarine hydraulic. I wouldn't hesitate to go to it. Much less than the 
wheel pilot on the the 35. You are welcome to hop on and try it out 
while we're in your neck of the woods.


Mark Baldridge
~~_/)
'89 C/40+ "The Edge"
Surf City, NC


On 7/8/2018 8:55 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List wrote:

My type 1 RAM adds no noticeable friction.

Joel

On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 8:51 PM Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Charlie,

There’s actually more friction with the wheel pilot versus the
hydraulic.

All the best,

Edd

---
Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the Starship Enterprise
C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, New York
www.StarshipSailing.com 
---
914.774.9767   | Mobile
---
Sent via iPhone X
iPhone. iTypos. iApologize


On Jul 8, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

My Raymarine wheel pilot has given up the ghost and I am
considering a below deck hydraulic replacement. The cost is
reasonable since most of my Raymarine stuff will be used by the
hydraulic unit.

My concern is how responsive (or not!) the wheel will be when the
pilot is disengaged. With the wheel pilot, there was little
difference.

I have steered a boat with hydraulic steering once (a Whitby 42)
whose entire steering (auto or not) was hydraulic. The response of
that system was so bad I swore I would never have anything to do
with another hydraulic unit.

Of course, when not engaged I understand that the pilot would not
be steering the boat--OTOH, it is still connected in some manner.

Since I mostly PHRF race the boat, I need to have the wheel/rudder
move without additional resistance from the auto-pilot.

Is this something I should be concerned about or is the wheel
'free' when the auto-pilot is not engaged?

Thanks,

Charlie Nelson
1995 C 36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom





cenel...@aol.com 
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the list - use PayPal to send contribution --
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--
Joel
301 541 8551


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Re: Stus-List Hydraulic auto-pilot

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

My type 1 RAM adds no noticeable friction.

Joel

On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 8:51 PM Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Charlie,
>
> There’s actually more friction with the wheel pilot versus the hydraulic.
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
> ---
> Edd M. Schillay
> Captain of the Starship Enterprise
> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, New York
> www.StarshipSailing.com
> ---
> 914.774.9767   | Mobile
> ---
> Sent via iPhone X
> iPhone. iTypos. iApologize
>
>
> On Jul 8, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> My Raymarine wheel pilot has given up the ghost and I am considering a
> below deck hydraulic replacement. The cost is reasonable since most of my
> Raymarine stuff will be used by the hydraulic unit.
>
> My concern is how responsive (or not!) the wheel will be when the pilot is
> disengaged. With the wheel pilot, there was little difference.
>
> I have steered a boat with hydraulic steering once (a Whitby 42) whose
> entire steering (auto or not) was hydraulic. The response of
> that system was so bad I swore I would never have anything to do with
> another hydraulic unit.
>
> Of course, when not engaged I understand that the pilot would not be
> steering the boat--OTOH, it is still connected in some manner.
>
> Since I mostly PHRF race the boat, I need to have the wheel/rudder move
> without additional resistance from the auto-pilot.
>
> Is this something I should be concerned about or is the wheel 'free' when
> the auto-pilot is not engaged?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie Nelson
> 1995 C 36 XL/kcb
> Water Phantom
>
>
>
>
>
> cenel...@aol.com
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Hydraulic auto-pilot

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Charlie,

There’s actually more friction with the wheel pilot versus the hydraulic. 

All the best, 

Edd

---
Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the Starship Enterprise 
C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, New York
www.StarshipSailing.com
---
914.774.9767   | Mobile
---
Sent via iPhone X
iPhone. iTypos. iApologize


On Jul 8, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List  
wrote:

My Raymarine wheel pilot has given up the ghost and I am considering a below 
deck hydraulic replacement. The cost is reasonable since most of my Raymarine 
stuff will be used by the hydraulic unit.

My concern is how responsive (or not!) the wheel will be when the pilot is 
disengaged. With the wheel pilot, there was little difference. 

I have steered a boat with hydraulic steering once (a Whitby 42) whose entire 
steering (auto or not) was hydraulic. The response of
that system was so bad I swore I would never have anything to do with another 
hydraulic unit. 

Of course, when not engaged I understand that the pilot would not be steering 
the boat--OTOH, it is still connected in some manner.

Since I mostly PHRF race the boat, I need to have the wheel/rudder move without 
additional resistance from the auto-pilot. 

Is this something I should be concerned about or is the wheel 'free' when the 
auto-pilot is not engaged?

Thanks,

Charlie Nelson
1995 C 36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom





cenel...@aol.com
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Stus-List Hydraulic auto-pilot

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

My Raymarine wheel pilot has given up the ghost and I am considering a below 
deck hydraulic replacement. The cost is reasonable since most of my Raymarine 
stuff will be used by the hydraulic unit.


My concern is how responsive (or not!) the wheel will be when the pilot is 
disengaged. With the wheel pilot, there was little difference. 


I have steered a boat with hydraulic steering once (a Whitby 42) whose entire 
steering (auto or not) was hydraulic. The response of
that system was so bad I swore I would never have anything to do with another 
hydraulic unit. 


Of course, when not engaged I understand that the pilot would not be steering 
the boat--OTOH, it is still connected in some manner.


Since I mostly PHRF race the boat, I need to have the wheel/rudder move without 
additional resistance from the auto-pilot. 


Is this something I should be concerned about or is the wheel 'free' when the 
auto-pilot is not engaged?


Thanks,


Charlie Nelson
1995 C 36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom









cenel...@aol.com


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