Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery
On Nemesis we have modern upgrade to the age old Perko switch. We have the 24 hour circuits wired to the Bilge pump and the Fridge. The other two are the house circuit and a spare (radio power someday perhaps). The starting battery is maintained through the now mandatory ELI breaker which has a bypass breaker to a marine charger just for the engine bat. The house bank gets charged through the inverter while at the dock. No fried diodes, simple operation, top circuit protection. When the engine is running everyone gets their share of juice through the ACR charging relay. This is the way your RV should have been wired when delivered Well the Bilge circuit should have been replaced with the Nest maybe. Doug Robinson, s/v Nemesis https://www.bluesea.com/products/8686/Dual_Battery_Bank_Management_Panel https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A On 7/4/22 11:55, Korbey Hunt via CnC-List wrote: I have same in my 34 C 2 batts for house and one for start. With a 1, 2 all switch you can use the house bank (1) on the hook and know the start bank (2) is isolated. Switch to all when the engine is started and all 3 batts will charge. I bought a Noco sealed 10 amp charger for the dock. I do not have any high use appliances. I do have a 1200 watt inverter wired direct to the house bank. It is sometimes used for coffee grinder. Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> *From:* Neil Andersen via CnC-List *Sent:* Monday, July 4, 2022 8:35:32 AM *To:* Stus-List *Cc:* Jeffrey A. Laman ; Neil Andersen *Subject:* Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery If you “separate” the batteries with a 1-2-ALL switch like we have on our boats, you can control which battery gets used. If you have only drawn from one battery, your recharge time will be like it is now. Neil Andersen, W3NEA Rock Hall, MD 21661 484-354-8800 *From:* Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List *Sent:* Monday, July 4, 2022 10:18:24 AM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Cc:* Jeffrey A. Laman *Subject:* Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery This is how my C is set up and how it came when I bought it. I added charger, with 2 bank capacity. One side of the charger gets the two house, and the other side of the charger goes to start. Works fine. But, as noted, charging the house takes a longer. I have debated whether to do away with the 2^nd house battery since the boat does not consume that much power -- instruments and auto pilot. All lights are LED now. Stereo use is at dock only. Jeff Laman 81 C "Harmony" Ludington, MI *From:* Jeff Nelson via CnC-List *Sent:* Monday, July 4, 2022 10:13 AM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Cc:* Jeff Nelson *Subject:* Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery Assuming you simply want to double your storage capacity, put the batteries side by side, wire positive to positive and negative to negative. You now have 12 volts with 2ce the ampacity. Others may offer some advice on charging...but I think you should be reasonably ok, except it will take a bunch longer to charge as you have 2ce the capacity that you need to fill. On 2022-07-04 10:41, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote: Actually is for an RV but I can think of no better place to get answer to this type of question than this list. Came with one group 27 deep cycle battery. Wish to add a second and have been told that nothing needs to change re the charging systems, etc … What is involved in adding a second group 27 battery? Thanks Mike Hoyt Persistence Halifax, NS -- Cheers, Jeff Nelson Muir Caileag C 30 - 549 Armdale Y.C.
Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery
Be sure to put the house feed positive on the first battery and negative on the second battery otherwise it will draw unevenly. Especially if you have some dirty connections. On Mon., Jul. 4, 2022, 10:14 a.m. Jeff Nelson via CnC-List, < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Assuming you simply want to double your storage capacity, put the > batteries side by side, wire positive to positive and > negative to negative. >
Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery
If your desire is to stick with a flooded lead acid style (of which I am still a fan and would help keep this project simple and cheap) then the response of others is perfectly accurate. Consider and recall a few things about this tried and true battery technology. 1 - Fully charged, no load voltage, with residual surface charge removed of a typical 12v, BCI group 27 battery is 12.7 V. State or charge (SOC) = 100% 2 - The same battery is considered to be fully discharged (SOC =0%) when its voltage equals 10.5 V 3 - The discharge curve is relatively straight so we can use a voltage meter to determine a battery's SOC. 12.7 - 10.5 = 2.2v over the entire 100% range. So 0.022 volts (no load) per percent discharged from the battery. 4 - To prevent damage and maintain the highest number of years of service life from your investment, discharging a battery below 50% should be avoided. Meaning that a voltage below 11.6v should be established as a critically low SOC. 5 - Changing is not so linear. Up to about 80% the rate at which the battery will accept charge power is linear. After that, the rate tapers assuming your charger is matched to charge at the maximum appropriate rate. Getting beyond 80% takes longer and is far less critical to maintaining battery health than staying above 50% 6 - The maximum rate of charge is determined by taking 30% of the amp hour capacity. For easy math let's assume your group 27 battery has 100 A-Hr of capacity. That means you should limit the charge current to 30 amps. Conveniently enough for math sake, this means that charging the battery from 50% to 80% (30 A-Hrs) can be achieved in 1 hour with an appropriately matched charger. So, since you didn't tell us what your charger current capacity is or how much time you have to charge or how low you currently discharge a single battery or your current AHr usage, there are many options that may make your upgrade more useful and efficient. Provide those details and I'll be glad to noddle through it with you. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C 37+ Solomons, MD Jul 4, 2022 09:41:57 Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List : > Actually is for an RV but I can think of no better place to get answer to > this type of question than this list. > > Came with one group 27 deep cycle battery. Wish to add a second and have > been told that nothing needs to change re the charging systems, etc … What > is involved in adding a second group 27 battery? > > Thanks > > Mike Hoyt > > Persistence > > Halifax, NS >
Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery
I have same in my 34 C 2 batts for house and one for start. With a 1, 2 all switch you can use the house bank (1) on the hook and know the start bank (2) is isolated. Switch to all when the engine is started and all 3 batts will charge. I bought a Noco sealed 10 amp charger for the dock. I do not have any high use appliances. I do have a 1200 watt inverter wired direct to the house bank. It is sometimes used for coffee grinder. Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> From: Neil Andersen via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 8:35:32 AM To: Stus-List Cc: Jeffrey A. Laman ; Neil Andersen Subject: Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery If you “separate” the batteries with a 1-2-ALL switch like we have on our boats, you can control which battery gets used. If you have only drawn from one battery, your recharge time will be like it is now. Neil Andersen, W3NEA Rock Hall, MD 21661 484-354-8800 From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 10:18:24 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Jeffrey A. Laman Subject: Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery This is how my C is set up and how it came when I bought it. I added charger, with 2 bank capacity. One side of the charger gets the two house, and the other side of the charger goes to start. Works fine. But, as noted, charging the house takes a longer. I have debated whether to do away with the 2nd house battery since the boat does not consume that much power -- instruments and auto pilot. All lights are LED now. Stereo use is at dock only. Jeff Laman 81 C "Harmony" Ludington, MI From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 10:13 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Jeff Nelson Subject: Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery Assuming you simply want to double your storage capacity, put the batteries side by side, wire positive to positive and negative to negative. You now have 12 volts with 2ce the ampacity. Others may offer some advice on charging...but I think you should be reasonably ok, except it will take a bunch longer to charge as you have 2ce the capacity that you need to fill. On 2022-07-04 10:41, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote: Actually is for an RV but I can think of no better place to get answer to this type of question than this list. Came with one group 27 deep cycle battery. Wish to add a second and have been told that nothing needs to change re the charging systems, etc … What is involved in adding a second group 27 battery? Thanks Mike Hoyt Persistence Halifax, NS -- Cheers, Jeff Nelson Muir Caileag C 30 - 549 Armdale Y.C.
Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery
If you “separate” the batteries with a 1-2-ALL switch like we have on our boats, you can control which battery gets used. If you have only drawn from one battery, your recharge time will be like it is now. Neil Andersen, W3NEA Rock Hall, MD 21661 484-354-8800 From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 10:18:24 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Jeffrey A. Laman Subject: Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery This is how my C is set up and how it came when I bought it. I added charger, with 2 bank capacity. One side of the charger gets the two house, and the other side of the charger goes to start. Works fine. But, as noted, charging the house takes a longer. I have debated whether to do away with the 2nd house battery since the boat does not consume that much power -- instruments and auto pilot. All lights are LED now. Stereo use is at dock only. Jeff Laman 81 C "Harmony" Ludington, MI From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 10:13 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Jeff Nelson Subject: Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery Assuming you simply want to double your storage capacity, put the batteries side by side, wire positive to positive and negative to negative. You now have 12 volts with 2ce the ampacity. Others may offer some advice on charging...but I think you should be reasonably ok, except it will take a bunch longer to charge as you have 2ce the capacity that you need to fill. On 2022-07-04 10:41, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote: Actually is for an RV but I can think of no better place to get answer to this type of question than this list. Came with one group 27 deep cycle battery. Wish to add a second and have been told that nothing needs to change re the charging systems, etc … What is involved in adding a second group 27 battery? Thanks Mike Hoyt Persistence Halifax, NS -- Cheers, Jeff Nelson Muir Caileag C 30 - 549 Armdale Y.C.
Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery
What are you trying to accomplish? If you want a spare battery bank, connect the negatives together, and get a SPST switch to be able to switch between the positive poles on the two banks. Another way is to get a DPDT switch and switch both the positive and the negative poles. If you want more current capacity, just connect the two positives together and the two negatives together. Nothing else has to change. Alan Bergen 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 6:41 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Actually is for an RV but I can think of no better place to get answer to > this type of question than this list. > > > > Came with one group 27 deep cycle battery. Wish to add a second and have > been told that nothing needs to change re the charging systems, etc … What > is involved in adding a second group 27 battery? > > > > Thanks > > > > Mike Hoyt > > Persistence > > Halifax, NS >
Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery
Thanks Jeff and Jeff That is also how Persistence is wired except one Xantrex charger for start and two house. This RV has electric fridge which seems to consume a bit of power so the desire was to have the fully charged batteries last longer before requiring recharge Mike From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List Sent: July 4, 2022 11:18 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Jeffrey A. Laman Subject: Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery This is how my C is set up and how it came when I bought it. I added charger, with 2 bank capacity. One side of the charger gets the two house, and the other side of the charger goes to start. Works fine. But, as noted, charging the house takes a longer. I have debated whether to do away with the 2nd house battery since the boat does not consume that much power -- instruments and auto pilot. All lights are LED now. Stereo use is at dock only. Jeff Laman 81 C "Harmony" Ludington, MI From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 10:13 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Jeff Nelson Subject: Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery Assuming you simply want to double your storage capacity, put the batteries side by side, wire positive to positive and negative to negative. You now have 12 volts with 2ce the ampacity. Others may offer some advice on charging...but I think you should be reasonably ok, except it will take a bunch longer to charge as you have 2ce the capacity that you need to fill. On 2022-07-04 10:41, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote: Actually is for an RV but I can think of no better place to get answer to this type of question than this list. Came with one group 27 deep cycle battery. Wish to add a second and have been told that nothing needs to change re the charging systems, etc ... What is involved in adding a second group 27 battery? Thanks Mike Hoyt Persistence Halifax, NS -- Cheers, Jeff Nelson Muir Caileag C 30 - 549 Armdale Y.C.
Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery
This is how my C is set up and how it came when I bought it. I added charger, with 2 bank capacity. One side of the charger gets the two house, and the other side of the charger goes to start. Works fine. But, as noted, charging the house takes a longer. I have debated whether to do away with the 2nd house battery since the boat does not consume that much power -- instruments and auto pilot. All lights are LED now. Stereo use is at dock only. Jeff Laman 81 C "Harmony" Ludington, MI From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 10:13 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Jeff Nelson Subject: Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery Assuming you simply want to double your storage capacity, put the batteries side by side, wire positive to positive and negative to negative. You now have 12 volts with 2ce the ampacity. Others may offer some advice on charging...but I think you should be reasonably ok, except it will take a bunch longer to charge as you have 2ce the capacity that you need to fill. On 2022-07-04 10:41, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote: Actually is for an RV but I can think of no better place to get answer to this type of question than this list. Came with one group 27 deep cycle battery. Wish to add a second and have been told that nothing needs to change re the charging systems, etc … What is involved in adding a second group 27 battery? Thanks Mike Hoyt Persistence Halifax, NS -- Cheers, Jeff Nelson Muir Caileag C 30 - 549 Armdale Y.C.
Stus-List Re: Adding a second house battery
Assuming you simply want to double your storage capacity, put the batteries side by side, wire positive to positive and negative to negative. You now have 12 volts with 2ce the ampacity. Others may offer some advice on charging...but I think you should be reasonably ok, except it will take a bunch longer to charge as you have 2ce the capacity that you need to fill. On 2022-07-04 10:41, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote: Actually is for an RV but I can think of no better place to get answer to this type of question than this list. Came with one group 27 deep cycle battery. Wish to add a second and have been told that nothing needs to change re the charging systems, etc … What is involved in adding a second group 27 battery? Thanks Mike Hoyt Persistence Halifax, NS -- Cheers, Jeff Nelson Muir Caileag C 30 - 549 Armdale Y.C.