Re: Stus-List Re core my deck - mat with epoxy yes but
Yes, one can use epoxy with fiberglass mat as long as the mat is of the stitched type as opposed to the more common glued binder. The binding glue is the problem with epoxy as the fiberglass strand in mat wets out with epoxy, but the binder that holding things together does not dissolve. I recall reading this first on Wally’s site and later confirmed it when I purchased some stitched mat. Here a link I just googled: https://www.skaps.com/en/stitched-chopped-strand-mat.html I agree with the “go metric” but let me add to it a “go medical”. For mixing small quantities (which is the majority of the time), I found using medical syringes work great. They are cheap (about 10¢ each purchased in bulk), so you can freely toss them out, but they can also be reused (I keep a 1ml & 3ml for hardener and a 5ml and 10ml for resin). I also keep a bunch of 1ml, 5ml, and 10ml syringes in my resin bucket. I have mixed as little as 3ml of epoxy. It is a great way not only to precisely mix but also reduce excess waste. That said, I always keep a some left-over to verify the cure. - Paul E. 1981 C Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Fort Walton Beach, FL http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/ > On Jan 3, 2020, at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: > > Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2020 08:50:40 -0600 > From: "Dennis C." mailto:capt...@gmail.com>> > To: CnClist mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> > Subject: Re: Stus-List Re core my deck - resin vs epoxy > Message-ID: ><mailto:CANir+ytHM8rCvDMa74gURUkgaeA=htt1zsmnq6r35wowe7x...@mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Not using epoxy with matte is also more desirable if you're finishing with > gelcoat. Not sure how some of the newer epoxies that cure without an amine > blush would work with matte. I haven't tried them. > > Vinylester resin is sometimes intimidating to DIYers because of the mix > ratios. The West System proportional pumps make it so easy most of us just > go for the epoxy. > > One thing I learned early on about polyester, vinylester and gelcoat > applications was to "go metric". The suggested MEKP addition is 1-2% by > weight. I used a small digital kitchen scale whenever I mixed them. > However measuring by volume is usually close enough. Using mix cups and > measuring cups labeled with mls (milliliters) will work. You'll need some > of the small 30 ml measuring cups (medicine cups) for the MEKP. You won't > get an accurate result if you're trying to measure 2-4 mls in a 500 ml > cup. > > Whereas epoxy has arguably better bonding, vinylester resin is a lot less > expensive and has about the same strength. Additionally, you avoid having > to buy the West System proportional pumps. > > Dennis C. > Touche' 35-1 #83 > Mandeville, LA ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Re core my deck - resin vs epoxy
Not using epoxy with matte is also more desirable if you're finishing with gelcoat. Not sure how some of the newer epoxies that cure without an amine blush would work with matte. I haven't tried them. Vinylester resin is sometimes intimidating to DIYers because of the mix ratios. The West System proportional pumps make it so easy most of us just go for the epoxy. One thing I learned early on about polyester, vinylester and gelcoat applications was to "go metric". The suggested MEKP addition is 1-2% by weight. I used a small digital kitchen scale whenever I mixed them. However measuring by volume is usually close enough. Using mix cups and measuring cups labeled with mls (milliliters) will work. You'll need some of the small 30 ml measuring cups (medicine cups) for the MEKP. You won't get an accurate result if you're trying to measure 2-4 mls in a 500 ml cup. Whereas epoxy has arguably better bonding, vinylester resin is a lot less expensive and has about the same strength. Additionally, you avoid having to buy the West System proportional pumps. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 7:21 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Hi Jon > > Yes. I have been told no mat with epoxy. Of course this was after I had > in fact used mat with epoxy. It was about the fibres of the mat not > reacting with the epoxy as they do with polyester resin. In my mind I > think of "dissolving" but of course that would not be good. > > I will let others chime in on the reasons. > > Mike > Persistence > Halifax, NS > > -Original Message- > From: CnC-List On Behalf Of JP Mail via > CnC-List > Sent: January 2, 2020 7:35 PM > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: JP Mail > Subject: Re: Stus-List Re core my deck > > Thank you for the wisdom. And pics. No mat with epoxy? > Love me those Frers 33s. Looked at a few before Hideaway. Tried to make an > offer on one near home and couldn’t get through to owner. C’est la vie. > Jon > > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Re core my deck
Hi Jon Yes. I have been told no mat with epoxy. Of course this was after I had in fact used mat with epoxy. It was about the fibres of the mat not reacting with the epoxy as they do with polyester resin. In my mind I think of "dissolving" but of course that would not be good. I will let others chime in on the reasons. Mike Persistence Halifax, NS -Original Message- From: CnC-List On Behalf Of JP Mail via CnC-List Sent: January 2, 2020 7:35 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: JP Mail Subject: Re: Stus-List Re core my deck Thank you for the wisdom. And pics. No mat with epoxy? Love me those Frers 33s. Looked at a few before Hideaway. Tried to make an offer on one near home and couldn’t get through to owner. C’est la vie. Jon ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Re core my deck
Thank you for the wisdom. And pics. No mat with epoxy? Love me those Frers 33s. Looked at a few before Hideaway. Tried to make an offer on one near home and couldn’t get through to owner. C’est la vie. Jon ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Re core my deck
Love the List! Thank you. Jon ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Re core my deck
Hi Jon This link shows core replacement on our former J27 "Nut Case". Similar construction. http://www.hoytsailing.com/J27Web/Projects/recore/recore.htm We did not use the top skin since it was cracked and since the entire area was to be repainted anyway. As others have said if you can confine this to non-skid areas your life will be much easier and the result will look better. Since the time we did that project there were many other areas that we re-cored on that boat. Typically we used polyester resin for larger areas due to cost and cure times. For smaller areas we used epoxy. We later changed to using polyester for the bulk of the larger areas and then epoxy for the final fairing coats. The epoxy adheres better and is a bit stronger for the areas where the fairing meets the existing deck. Also note that contrary to the link shown fibreglass matt can only be used with polyester resin and not with epoxy. Also since you will not likely be keeping the boat for another 30 years balsa will hold up for the entire time you own the boat and much longer if sealed correctly. Balsa is very easy to work with and cost effective as well. The first of the re-coring on Nut Case was done in Spring 2008 and was still looking great when we sold Nut Case in June 2014. For Nut Case we repainted all of the non skid areas so because of that the Interdeck product had no issues with colour match although it was pretty close to start with anyway. Kiwi-Grip would likely be even better. Note that we also replaced core in 1 x 3 foot areas port and starboard surrounding chain plates on our Niagara 26 prior to working on the J27 and also replaced entire cockpit sole. On the Niagara the cockpit sole was delaminated and we tried initially drilling holes and injecting with epoxy. The injected repair seemed ok at first but we never could get all the water out so we eventually ripped out all the core and did it the right way. One final thing. The wet area is likely quite a bit larger than you would initially believe. Have a good surveyor or someone familiar with this work check the area before you begin so that you know the extent of the job you will be undertaking. Good luck with your project. It is not as daunting a job as you may believe. Mike Hoyt Persistence 1987 Freres 33 #16 Halifax, NS www.hoytsailing.com -Original Message- From: CnC-List On Behalf Of JP Mail via CnC-List Sent: January 1, 2020 1:02 PM To: Stu Cc: JP Mail Subject: Stus-List Re core my deck 1985 35-3. I Need to recore a 1.5’ x 3’ area of deck. I’ve started researching. But I know there is good info here. Best material, divinycell or balsa? Anyone know the thickness I’d need? Best type fiberglass to finish with? Best way to hide it all? Deck paint and Nonskid? Thanks in advance. I’ve watched a bunch of youtube and I have mentally prepared myself to take this on. Jon Hideaway Sent from my iPhone ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Re core my deck
I had very good results with Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer (CPES) about 18 years ago. I no longer own the boat but sailed it twice over the summer. The 12 × 18 areas of rot are still solid. It won't help if the core has rotted away entirely, but if you test it and there is still balsa ther, I'd try it.Just my $.02 worth, Bruce Whitmore 1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis "Sent from Samsung tablet. Original message From: David Morrison via CnC-List Date: 1/1/20 6:11 PM (GMT-05:00) To: JP Mail , Stu Cc: David Morrison Subject: Re: Stus-List Re core my deck Look in to Injecta-deck. i can attest that is works well and holds up. Original Message Subject: Stus-List Re core my deck From: JP Mail Date: Wed, January 01, 2020 12:02 pm To: Stu 1985 35-3. I Need to recore a 1.5’ x 3’ area of deck. I’ve started researching. But I know there is good info here. Best material, divinycell or balsa? Anyone know the thickness I’d need? Best type fiberglass to finish with? Best way to hide it all? Deck paint and Nonskid? Thanks in advance. I’ve watched a bunch of youtube and I have mentally prepared myself to take this on. Jon Hideaway Sent from my iPhone ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Re core my deck
I've done a few deck peels. Years ago I documented a deck peel on the cockpit of a runabout. While not exactly the same, the repair is very similar. Here's a link to the pics and a Word document describing the process. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hAJ2BrQ05fUCGNY5K9GySS2afCubC-2A Again, note that I cut along the nonskid boundary to better hide the cut. Also note I left a ledge so when I replaced the skin so the elevation would closely match. If you've watched a number of YouTube videos on the subject, you should be good to go. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Re core my deck
A friend had (4) areas of side deck on his Tartan 37 about 1 ½’ x 4’ that needed to be re-cored. (The boat’s PO had installed some high quality opening ports in place of the portlights, but had put the opening lens on the OUTSIDE of the cabin sides. Which allowed rain water to get into the side decks and rot the core.) The repair used the method Dennis describes. Used a Fein tool to make a narrow cut in the outer skin, peeled the skin, took out the old core leaving a ledge to support reinstallation of the outer skin. I wish we’d thought to make the cuts match the edges of non-skid areas. For new core we used a 1/2” thick semi-rigid fiberglass filler, whose structure looks a lot like a fiberglass Brillo pad, that comes in 4x8 sheets. Cut core panels to fit the areas removed, epoxy down to the inner skin & let cure, then slather with thickened epoxy and reinstall the old skin. After cure, the small crack around each repair needed a bit of filling and sanding to hide the seams where thickened epoxy had squished out. Then repainted the areas with Interdeck. One advantage of reusing the old skin is that the texture of the non-skid is maintained. I can find the repairs because I know they are there, but I doubt most folks could find them. They definitely pass the 15 foot test. Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, January 1, 2020 2:59 PM To: CnClist Cc: Dennis C. Subject: Re: Stus-List Re core my deck Use a vibrating saw to cut the deck outside the damaged core. Follow a nonskid seam if possible. Peel the deck skin up with a thin flexible putty knife. Leave a 1 inch or so ledge around the outside when removing the damaged core. After the core repair, you can replace the deck skin on this ledge with a thin layer of epoxy and the elevation will match. Let a little epoxy squeeze out of the cut. Sand it smooth and you can finish it with gelcoat, paint or your choice of nonskid material. If you choose to finish with new glass, the top layer should be matte glass. A little putty and sanding will make the surface smooth. Putty is your friend. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Re core my deck
Look in to Injecta-deck. i can attest that is works well and holds up. Original Message Subject: Stus-List Re core my deck From: JP Mail <jon.peterpr...@gmail.com> Date: Wed, January 01, 2020 12:02 pm To: Stu <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 1985 35-3. I Need to recore a 1.5’ x 3’ area of deck. I’ve started researching. But I know there is good info here. Best material, divinycell or balsa? Anyone know the thickness I’d need? Best type fiberglass to finish with? Best way to hide it all? Deck paint and Nonskid? Thanks in advance. I’ve watched a bunch of youtube and I have mentally prepared myself to take this on. Jon Hideaway Sent from my iPhone ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Re core my deck
Use a vibrating saw to cut the deck outside the damaged core. Follow a nonskid seam if possible. Peel the deck skin up with a thin flexible putty knife. Leave a 1 inch or so ledge around the outside when removing the damaged core. After the core repair, you can replace the deck skin on this ledge with a thin layer of epoxy and the elevation will match. Let a little epoxy squeeze out of the cut. Sand it smooth and you can finish it with gelcoat, paint or your choice of nonskid material. If you choose to finish with new glass, the top layer should be matte glass. A little putty and sanding will make the surface smooth. Putty is your friend. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Wed, Jan 1, 2020 at 11:02 AM JP Mail via CnC-List wrote: > 1985 35-3. > I Need to recore a 1.5’ x 3’ area of deck. > I’ve started researching. > But I know there is good info here. > Best material, divinycell or balsa? > Anyone know the thickness I’d need? > Best type fiberglass to finish with? > Best way to hide it all? Deck paint and Nonskid? > Thanks in advance. > I’ve watched a bunch of youtube and I have mentally prepared myself to > take this on. > Jon > Hideaway > Sent from my iPhone > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Re core my deck
Just about to this job on my 34-36r. Thanks for the preview Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 1, 2020, at 9:12 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List > wrote: > > > I redid some core last summer and learned a lot of tips from the experience. > > I used 3/4" balsa, to copy the existing design flex of the boat but might try > another core material if I didn't already have the balsa. I found 1708 > fiberglass the best fiberglass to use. I reused the deck skin and used 1708 > to bond the edges of the skins. I also used West System epoxy because I had > the resin and pumps from prior projects. > > Total Fair from Jamestown Distributers is easy to work with and waterproof. > EZ-Fair from Pettit is better in my opinion as it's waterproof and comes out > white, but slightly more expensive. > > I primed and painted using Interlux. I intend to add KiwiGrip in the Spring. > > Once you get your material I would encourage you to practice at home with a > small one foot square piece of core, fiberglass, sanding and fairing. > > Best advice comes from "Boatworks Today" YouTube channel.Andy has > migrated from West System to Total Boat epoxies and Total Fair as they don't > have the amine blush. I started using a peel ply over my repairs and taking > a tip from Mads from "Sail Life" Youtube channel, I use it all the time to > absorb the amine blush and reduce the amount of sanding. You can search > both channels for your projects needs. > > https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=boatworks+today > > https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sail+life+refitting+athena > > I found fairing tips from autobody channels were better than boat repairers. > Harbor Freight sells an inexpensive 18" long board and sanding paper. > > Good luck, > Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R, Pasadena, Md >> On January 1, 2020 at 12:02 PM JP Mail via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> 1985 35-3. >> I Need to recore a 1.5’ x 3’ area of deck. >> I’ve started researching. >> But I know there is good info here. >> Best material, divinycell or balsa? >> Anyone know the thickness I’d need? >> Best type fiberglass to finish with? >> Best way to hide it all? Deck paint and Nonskid? >> Thanks in advance. >> I’ve watched a bunch of youtube and I have mentally prepared myself to take >> this on. >> Jon >> Hideaway >> Sent from my iPhone >> ___ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and >> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use >> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Re core my deck
I redid some core last summer and learned a lot of tips from the experience. I used 3/4" balsa, to copy the existing design flex of the boat but might try another core material if I didn't already have the balsa. I found 1708 fiberglass the best fiberglass to use. I reused the deck skin and used 1708 to bond the edges of the skins. I also used West System epoxy because I had the resin and pumps from prior projects. Total Fair from Jamestown Distributers is easy to work with and waterproof. EZ-Fair from Pettit is better in my opinion as it's waterproof and comes out white, but slightly more expensive. I primed and painted using Interlux. I intend to add KiwiGrip in the Spring. Once you get your material I would encourage you to practice at home with a small one foot square piece of core, fiberglass, sanding and fairing. Best advice comes from "Boatworks Today" YouTube channel.Andy has migrated from West System to Total Boat epoxies and Total Fair as they don't have the amine blush. I started using a peel ply over my repairs and taking a tip from Mads from "Sail Life" Youtube channel, I use it all the time to absorb the amine blush and reduce the amount of sanding. You can search both channels for your projects needs. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=boatworks+today https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sail+life+refitting+athena I found fairing tips from autobody channels were better than boat repairers. Harbor Freight sells an inexpensive 18" long board and sanding paper. Good luck, Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R, Pasadena, Md > On January 1, 2020 at 12:02 PM JP Mail via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: > > > 1985 35-3. > I Need to recore a 1.5’ x 3’ area of deck. > I’ve started researching. > But I know there is good info here. > Best material, divinycell or balsa? > Anyone know the thickness I’d need? > Best type fiberglass to finish with? > Best way to hide it all? Deck paint and Nonskid? > Thanks in advance. > I’ve watched a bunch of youtube and I have mentally prepared myself to > take this on. > Jon > Hideaway > Sent from my iPhone > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Re core my deck
Divinicell and you never have to worry about delamination in that area ever again. Neil Andersen 20691 Jamieson Rd Rock Hall, MD 21661 From: CnC-List on behalf of JP Mail via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, January 1, 2020 12:02 PM To: Stu Cc: JP Mail Subject: Stus-List Re core my deck 1985 35-3. I Need to recore a 1.5’ x 3’ area of deck. I’ve started researching. But I know there is good info here. Best material, divinycell or balsa? Anyone know the thickness I’d need? Best type fiberglass to finish with? Best way to hide it all? Deck paint and Nonskid? Thanks in advance. I’ve watched a bunch of youtube and I have mentally prepared myself to take this on. Jon Hideaway Sent from my iPhone ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Stus-List Re core my deck
1985 35-3. I Need to recore a 1.5’ x 3’ area of deck. I’ve started researching. But I know there is good info here. Best material, divinycell or balsa? Anyone know the thickness I’d need? Best type fiberglass to finish with? Best way to hide it all? Deck paint and Nonskid? Thanks in advance. I’ve watched a bunch of youtube and I have mentally prepared myself to take this on. Jon Hideaway Sent from my iPhone ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
