Re: Stus-List Starting Problem

[ed vanderkruk via CnC-List]

It reduces the arcing in the switch by reducing the amperage for a small
solenoid compared to the starter. Adds life to the switch. You can have
larger gauge wire switched at the solenoid to the starter and modest size
to the switch.

Ed

Prime Interest
Toronto,  Ontario
On Jun 11, 2016 8:37 AM, "Dave via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Josh,

What's the advantage of adding an auxiliary solenoid to the starting
circuit?

Dave J
Saltaire
C 35Mk3
Bristol, RI
--
*From: *"Josh Muckley via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
*To: *"C List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
*Cc: *"Josh Muckley" <muckl...@gmail.com>
*Sent: *Monday, June 6, 2016 8:20:33 AM

*Subject: *Re: Stus-List Starting Problem

I made a video that walks through the starting circuit on my yanmar.  Its
pretty generic, maybe it will help.

https://youtu.be/Mp2cGDa1VOU

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Jun 5, 2016 11:13 PM, "Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> Stopped by the boat today planning to get prep'd for some work that need
> to get done.
>
> Figured I should kick the engine over just to make sure everything was
> running smoothly.  Unfortunately I got nothing (absolutely nothing) from
> turning the key.
>
>
> Batteries seem fine.  Able to run radio - and no visible dip in power to
> the radio when trying to turn over the engine.
>
> I had a similar experience a year ago after running the diesel for a few
> hours - wind came up and we sailed for a bit, but then couldn't re-start.
> That day I easily found a loose wire (clearly it had shaken loose with the
> engine running for a long period) off a clip on the starter solenoid (?).
>
> That was my first check today - but it was attached.  Pulled it off to
> clean contact but no effect.
>
>
> I figure there are 3 possibilities
>
> 1- ignition key failure - no signal to the starter to kick over
>
> 2- starter/solenoid failure - I doubt this as I'd expect some type of
> noise or power dip indicating that something was seized
>
> 3- electrical connection failure - I can see a large wire leading to what
> I presume is the solenoid, plus a couple of smaller wires connected as
> well.  Nothing obviously disconnected
>
>
> I need to head back down to the boat with a voltage meter - try to figure
> out what is going on and hopefully find an easy fix!
>
>
> Any advice is appreciated.  I presume is the key is working them I'd get a
> voltage spike at the solenoid when the key is turned. If nothing then it
> suggests either 1 or 3.  Where should I see that?
>
> I expect I'll pull the panel and check the contacts behind the ignition
> key - maybe try hot-wiring it if I can figure out which wires are needed
>
> Should I use automotive jumper cables to bypass the starter and try to
> spin the starter/solenoid directly?
>
>
> The engine is a Volvo 2002 18HP
>
>
> Thanks in advance for the advice,
>
> Mark
>
> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>   - George Santayana
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

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like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Starting Problem

[Dave via CnC-List]

Josh, 

What's the advantage of adding an auxiliary solenoid to the starting circuit? 

Dave J 
Saltaire 
C 35Mk3 
Bristol, RI 
- Original Message -

From: "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
To: "C List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: "Josh Muckley" <muckl...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 8:20:33 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting Problem 



I made a video that walks through the starting circuit on my yanmar. Its pretty 
generic, maybe it will help. 

https://youtu.be/Mp2cGDa1VOU 


Josh Muckley 
S/V Sea Hawk 
1989 C 37+ 
Solomons, MD 
On Jun 5, 2016 11:13 PM, "Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> wrote: 



Stopped by the boat today planning to get prep'd for some work that need to get 
done. 

Figured I should kick the engine over just to make sure everything was running 
smoothly. Unfortunately I got nothing (absolutely nothing) from turning the 
key. 


Batteries seem fine. Able to run radio - and no visible dip in power to the 
radio when trying to turn over the engine. 

I had a similar experience a year ago after running the diesel for a few hours 
- wind came up and we sailed for a bit, but then couldn't re-start. That day I 
easily found a loose wire (clearly it had shaken loose with the engine running 
for a long period) off a clip on the starter solenoid (?). 

That was my first check today - but it was attached. Pulled it off to clean 
contact but no effect. 


I figure there are 3 possibilities 

1- ignition key failure - no signal to the starter to kick over 

2- starter/solenoid failure - I doubt this as I'd expect some type of noise or 
power dip indicating that something was seized 

3- electrical connection failure - I can see a large wire leading to what I 
presume is the solenoid, plus a couple of smaller wires connected as well. 
Nothing obviously disconnected 


I need to head back down to the boat with a voltage meter - try to figure out 
what is going on and hopefully find an easy fix! 


Any advice is appreciated. I presume is the key is working them I'd get a 
voltage spike at the solenoid when the key is turned. If nothing then it 
suggests either 1 or 3. Where should I see that? 

I expect I'll pull the panel and check the contacts behind the ignition key - 
maybe try hot-wiring it if I can figure out which wires are needed 

Should I use automotive jumper cables to bypass the starter and try to spin the 
starter/solenoid directly? 


The engine is a Volvo 2002 18HP 


Thanks in advance for the advice, 

Mark 

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. 
- George Santayana 


___ 

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated! 




___ 

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated! 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Starting Problem

[Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List]

  
  


Thx - I'll look for that and clean it
Mark



There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana
On 2016-06-07 8:44 PM, Dave via
  CnC-List wrote:


  
  

  Your description has me 90% certain
  you have a bad ground from the wiring harness to the engine.
   On my 2gm this was a large ring terminal attached to or above
  the stArter iirc.  Your multimeter may fool you as you are
  getting some conductivity.  Inspect, Clean/de oxidize that
  grounding point first, save yourself some time. 
  Note - since you are near the 12v
  feed to the starter, be careful when you work...
  Dave.
  

  

  Message: 7
  Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2016 15:42:53 -0300
  From: "Dr. Mark Bodnar" <drbod...@accesswave.ca>
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
      Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting Problem
  Message-ID: <914ac484-43d2-9fd4-fb72-4fe87cccf...@accesswave.ca>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
  
  
  Thanks for all the feedback.
  
  I'll me digging out my multimeter and heading down to the boat
  this 
  weekend.  I now realize that I don't think the engine vent fan
  turned on 
  when I turned the key (my lights on the panel are rather
  intermittent 
  and my engine overheat buzzer has never worked, plus the tach
  is 
  intermittent -- so good chance that the wiring harness is the
  culprit).
  
  I'll check the fuses on the engine and see if I can find the
  ground wires.
  
  No glow plug to deal with.
  
  I've also been advised to check the "neutral kill swtich"
  (stops you 
  from starting engine in gear) and the "oil pressure kill
  switch" - not 
  sure where those are so I'll have to look at the engine
  manual.
  
  I'll see what I find and come back with more details if it's
  not working

Sent from my iPhone
  
  
  
  ___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Starting Problem

[Dave via CnC-List]

Your description has me 90% certain you have a bad ground from the wiring 
harness to the engine.  On my 2gm this was a large ring terminal attached to or 
above the stArter iirc.  Your multimeter may fool you as you are getting some 
conductivity.  Inspect, Clean/de oxidize that grounding point first, save 
yourself some time. 
Note - since you are near the 12v feed to the starter, be careful when you 
work...
Dave.


Message: 7
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2016 15:42:53 -0300
From: "Dr. Mark Bodnar" <drbod...@accesswave.ca>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting Problem
Message-ID: <914ac484-43d2-9fd4-fb72-4fe87cccf...@accesswave.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed


Thanks for all the feedback.

I'll me digging out my multimeter and heading down to the boat this 
weekend.  I now realize that I don't think the engine vent fan turned on 
when I turned the key (my lights on the panel are rather intermittent 
and my engine overheat buzzer has never worked, plus the tach is 
intermittent -- so good chance that the wiring harness is the culprit).

I'll check the fuses on the engine and see if I can find the ground wires.

No glow plug to deal with.

I've also been advised to check the "neutral kill swtich" (stops you 
from starting engine in gear) and the "oil pressure kill switch" - not 
sure where those are so I'll have to look at the engine manual.

I'll see what I find and come back with more details if it's not working

Sent from my iPhone___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Starting Problem

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

A word of caution regarding electrical diagnosis on live circuits… I recently 
attended a two day class at Annapolis School of Seamanship on diesel mechanics 
and one of the things they stressed is removing ALL jewelry (wedding rings, 
watches, EVERYTHING) when diving into wiring that’s connected to a battery.  It 
takes very little contact to make a nice short circuit across a gold wedding 
ring or bracelet and the result is a very bad burn, sometimes taking the skin 
clear off your finger or wrist (I believe the term they used was “de-gloving” 
your hand).  I worked on cars and motorcycles for many years without a second 
thought about frying my wristwatch across a starter solenoid, but it appears 
there have been enough instances of bad burns, especially in tight engine 
spaces (like beneath the companionway of a sailboat) to warrant a word to the 
wise…

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1983 LF 35

Pandaram, MA

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 3:08 PM
To: CnClist <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Dennis C. <capt...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting Problem

 

I just had same issue.  Started at the ignition switch and worked toward 
engine.  It was the slide on connector on the solenoid.  Apparently I'd knocked 
it loose while working near it.

Just remember, voltage does not mean the amperage will happen.

Speaking of engines, here's what I'm working on this weekend:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/heat_exchanger

I hope Touche's exchanger doesn't have as many zinc pieces as this one.  I'm 
seeing 5-10 degrees of overheat right now at high rpm.

 

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

 

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:


Thanks for all the feedback.

I'll me digging out my multimeter and heading down to the boat this weekend.  I 
now realize that I don't think the engine vent fan turned on when I turned the 
key (my lights on the panel are rather intermittent and my engine overheat 
buzzer has never worked, plus the tach is intermittent -- so good chance that 
the wiring harness is the culprit).

I'll check the fuses on the engine and see if I can find the ground wires.

No glow plug to deal with.

I've also been advised to check the "neutral kill swtich" (stops you from 
starting engine in gear) and the "oil pressure kill switch" - not sure where 
those are so I'll have to look at the engine manual.

I'll see what I find and come back with more details if it's not working


Thanks,

Mark

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana

On 2016-06-06 12:12 AM, Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List wrote:


Stopped by the boat today planning to get prep'd for some work that need to get 
done.

Figured I should kick the engine over just to make sure everything was running 
smoothly.  Unfortunately I got nothing (absolutely nothing) from turning the 
key.


Batteries seem fine.  Able to run radio - and no visible dip in power to the 
radio when trying to turn over the engine.

I had a similar experience a year ago after running the diesel for a few hours 
- wind came up and we sailed for a bit, but then couldn't re-start.  That day I 
easily found a loose wire (clearly it had shaken loose with the engine running 
for a long period) off a clip on the starter solenoid (?).

That was my first check today - but it was attached.  Pulled it off to clean 
contact but no effect.


I figure there are 3 possibilities

1- ignition key failure - no signal to the starter to kick over

2- starter/solenoid failure - I doubt this as I'd expect some type of noise or 
power dip indicating that something was seized

3- electrical connection failure - I can see a large wire leading to what I 
presume is the solenoid, plus a couple of smaller wires connected as well.  
Nothing obviously disconnected


I need to head back down to the boat with a voltage meter - try to figure out 
what is going on and hopefully find an easy fix!


Any advice is appreciated.  I presume is the key is working them I'd get a 
voltage spike at the solenoid when the key is turned. If nothing then it 
suggests either 1 or 3.  Where should I see that?

I expect I'll pull the panel and check the contacts behind the ignition key - 
maybe try hot-wiring it if I can figure out which wires are needed

Should I use automotive jumper cables to bypass the starter and try to spin the 
starter/solenoid directly?


The engine is a Volvo 2002 18HP


Thanks in advance for the advice,

Mark

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating

Re: Stus-List Starting Problem

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I just had same issue.  Started at the ignition switch and worked toward
engine.  It was the slide on connector on the solenoid.  Apparently I'd
knocked it loose while working near it.

Just remember, voltage does not mean the amperage will happen.

Speaking of engines, here's what I'm working on this weekend:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/heat_exchanger

I hope Touche's exchanger doesn't have as many zinc pieces as this one.
I'm seeing 5-10 degrees of overheat right now at high rpm.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> Thanks for all the feedback.
>
> I'll me digging out my multimeter and heading down to the boat this
> weekend.  I now realize that I don't think the engine vent fan turned on
> when I turned the key (my lights on the panel are rather intermittent and
> my engine overheat buzzer has never worked, plus the tach is intermittent
> -- so good chance that the wiring harness is the culprit).
>
> I'll check the fuses on the engine and see if I can find the ground wires.
>
> No glow plug to deal with.
>
> I've also been advised to check the "neutral kill swtich" (stops you from
> starting engine in gear) and the "oil pressure kill switch" - not sure
> where those are so I'll have to look at the engine manual.
>
> I'll see what I find and come back with more details if it's not working
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>   - George Santayana
>
> On 2016-06-06 12:12 AM, Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List wrote:
>
>>
>> Stopped by the boat today planning to get prep'd for some work that need
>> to get done.
>>
>> Figured I should kick the engine over just to make sure everything was
>> running smoothly.  Unfortunately I got nothing (absolutely nothing) from
>> turning the key.
>>
>>
>> Batteries seem fine.  Able to run radio - and no visible dip in power to
>> the radio when trying to turn over the engine.
>>
>> I had a similar experience a year ago after running the diesel for a few
>> hours - wind came up and we sailed for a bit, but then couldn't re-start.
>> That day I easily found a loose wire (clearly it had shaken loose with the
>> engine running for a long period) off a clip on the starter solenoid (?).
>>
>> That was my first check today - but it was attached.  Pulled it off to
>> clean contact but no effect.
>>
>>
>> I figure there are 3 possibilities
>>
>> 1- ignition key failure - no signal to the starter to kick over
>>
>> 2- starter/solenoid failure - I doubt this as I'd expect some type of
>> noise or power dip indicating that something was seized
>>
>> 3- electrical connection failure - I can see a large wire leading to what
>> I presume is the solenoid, plus a couple of smaller wires connected as
>> well.  Nothing obviously disconnected
>>
>>
>> I need to head back down to the boat with a voltage meter - try to figure
>> out what is going on and hopefully find an easy fix!
>>
>>
>> Any advice is appreciated.  I presume is the key is working them I'd get
>> a voltage spike at the solenoid when the key is turned. If nothing then it
>> suggests either 1 or 3.  Where should I see that?
>>
>> I expect I'll pull the panel and check the contacts behind the ignition
>> key - maybe try hot-wiring it if I can figure out which wires are needed
>>
>> Should I use automotive jumper cables to bypass the starter and try to
>> spin the starter/solenoid directly?
>>
>>
>> The engine is a Volvo 2002 18HP
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance for the advice,
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>>   - George Santayana
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
>> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Starting Problem

[Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I'll me digging out my multimeter and heading down to the boat this 
weekend.  I now realize that I don't think the engine vent fan turned on 
when I turned the key (my lights on the panel are rather intermittent 
and my engine overheat buzzer has never worked, plus the tach is 
intermittent -- so good chance that the wiring harness is the culprit).


I'll check the fuses on the engine and see if I can find the ground wires.

No glow plug to deal with.

I've also been advised to check the "neutral kill swtich" (stops you 
from starting engine in gear) and the "oil pressure kill switch" - not 
sure where those are so I'll have to look at the engine manual.


I'll see what I find and come back with more details if it's not working


Thanks,

Mark

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana

On 2016-06-06 12:12 AM, Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List wrote:


Stopped by the boat today planning to get prep'd for some work that 
need to get done.


Figured I should kick the engine over just to make sure everything was 
running smoothly.  Unfortunately I got nothing (absolutely nothing) 
from turning the key.



Batteries seem fine.  Able to run radio - and no visible dip in power 
to the radio when trying to turn over the engine.


I had a similar experience a year ago after running the diesel for a 
few hours - wind came up and we sailed for a bit, but then couldn't 
re-start.  That day I easily found a loose wire (clearly it had shaken 
loose with the engine running for a long period) off a clip on the 
starter solenoid (?).


That was my first check today - but it was attached.  Pulled it off to 
clean contact but no effect.



I figure there are 3 possibilities

1- ignition key failure - no signal to the starter to kick over

2- starter/solenoid failure - I doubt this as I'd expect some type of 
noise or power dip indicating that something was seized


3- electrical connection failure - I can see a large wire leading to 
what I presume is the solenoid, plus a couple of smaller wires 
connected as well.  Nothing obviously disconnected



I need to head back down to the boat with a voltage meter - try to 
figure out what is going on and hopefully find an easy fix!



Any advice is appreciated.  I presume is the key is working them I'd 
get a voltage spike at the solenoid when the key is turned. If nothing 
then it suggests either 1 or 3.  Where should I see that?


I expect I'll pull the panel and check the contacts behind the 
ignition key - maybe try hot-wiring it if I can figure out which wires 
are needed


Should I use automotive jumper cables to bypass the starter and try to 
spin the starter/solenoid directly?



The engine is a Volvo 2002 18HP


Thanks in advance for the advice,

Mark

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If 
you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All 
Contributions are greatly appreciated!





___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Starting Problem

[Sam Salter via CnC-List]

  I second or third the ground! Had that problem for a few years. Engine was dead on the start button, until 3rd or 4th press and then would fire up suddenly. (2GM20F)Bad ground to the trans. case. Cleaned it up and all was fine.I eventually replaced all the battery cables with pre made  cables and ends from Canadian Tire.‎ After 35 years all the wire to end joints get a little suspect and the wire was not that good to start with - not tinned! Fore something like $35 and an hours work, I now get instant starts every time. sam :-)C 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta From: Dave Syer via CnC-ListSent: Monday, June 6, 2016 9:05 AMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: Dave SyerSubject: Re: Stus-List Starting ProblemCheck your grounds.   Had what I thought was a dead tach  and it was a corroded ground connection where the main harness from the engine control panel grounded via a ring terminal on a stud to the engine.   This should be a maintenance item...Dave  
--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 12:20:33 +
From: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
To: "C List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting Problem
Message-ID:
        <ca+zacraog0mc07h4apnzdeo2kxhv_gfjlpgtm+exkwselmc...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I made a video that walks through the starting circuit on my yanmar.  Its
pretty generic, maybe it will help.

https://youtu.be/Mp2cGDa1VOU

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Jun 5, 2016 11:13 PM, "Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> Stopped by the boat today planning to get prep'd for some work that need
> to get done.
>
> Figured I should kick the engine over just to make sure everything was
> running smoothly.  Unfortunately I got nothing (absolutely nothing) from
> turning the key.
>
>
> Batteries seem fine.  Able to run radio - and no visible dip in power to
> the radio when trying to turn over the engine.
>
> I had a similar experience a year ago after running the diesel for a few
> hours - wind came up and we sailed for a bit, but then couldn't re-start.
> That day I easily found a loose wire (clearly it had shaken loose with the
> engine running for a long period) off a clip on the starter solenoid (?).
>
> That was my first check today - but it was attached.  Pulled it off to
> clean contact but no effect.
>
>
> I figure there are 3 possibilities
>
> 1- ignition key failure - no signal to the starter to kick over
>
> 2- starter/solenoid failure - I doubt this as I'd expect some type of
> noise or power dip indicating that something was seized
>
> 3- electrical connection failure - I can see a large wire leading to what
> I presume is the solenoid, plus a couple of smaller wires connected as
> well.  Nothing obviously disconnected
>
>
> I need to head back down to the boat with a voltage meter - try to figure
> out what is going on and hopefully find an easy fix!
>
>
> Any advice is appreciated.  I presume is the key is working them I'd get a
> voltage spike at the solenoid when the key is turned. If nothing then it
> suggests either 1 or 3.  Where should I see that?
>
> 



___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Starting Problem

[Dave Syer via CnC-List]

Check your grounds.   Had what I thought was a dead tach  and it was a
corroded ground connection where the main harness from the engine control
panel grounded via a ring terminal on a stud to the engine.
This should be a maintenance item...

Dave








> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 12:20:33 +
> From: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
> To: "C List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting Problem
> Message-ID:
> <
> ca+zacraog0mc07h4apnzdeo2kxhv_gfjlpgtm+exkwselmc...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I made a video that walks through the starting circuit on my yanmar.  Its
> pretty generic, maybe it will help.
>
> https://youtu.be/Mp2cGDa1VOU
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> On Jun 5, 2016 11:13 PM, "Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Stopped by the boat today planning to get prep'd for some work that need
> > to get done.
> >
> > Figured I should kick the engine over just to make sure everything was
> > running smoothly.  Unfortunately I got nothing (absolutely nothing) from
> > turning the key.
> >
> >
> > Batteries seem fine.  Able to run radio - and no visible dip in power to
> > the radio when trying to turn over the engine.
> >
> > I had a similar experience a year ago after running the diesel for a few
> > hours - wind came up and we sailed for a bit, but then couldn't re-start.
> > That day I easily found a loose wire (clearly it had shaken loose with
> the
> > engine running for a long period) off a clip on the starter solenoid (?).
> >
> > That was my first check today - but it was attached.  Pulled it off to
> > clean contact but no effect.
> >
> >
> > I figure there are 3 possibilities
> >
> > 1- ignition key failure - no signal to the starter to kick over
> >
> > 2- starter/solenoid failure - I doubt this as I'd expect some type of
> > noise or power dip indicating that something was seized
> >
> > 3- electrical connection failure - I can see a large wire leading to what
> > I presume is the solenoid, plus a couple of smaller wires connected as
> > well.  Nothing obviously disconnected
> >
> >
> > I need to head back down to the boat with a voltage meter - try to figure
> > out what is going on and hopefully find an easy fix!
> >
> >
> > Any advice is appreciated.  I presume is the key is working them I'd get
> a
> > voltage spike at the solenoid when the key is turned. If nothing then it
> > suggests either 1 or 3.  Where should I see that?
> >
> >
>
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Re: Stus-List Starting Problem

[jhnelson via CnC-List]

Also ground cable to engine/transmission case can cause it. Or if yanmar the 
fuse on the engine can become corrode. Mine developed a break in the fuse 
holder and needed replacing 


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Douglas Mountjoy via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Date: 2016-06-06  03:44  (GMT-04:00) 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Douglas Mountjoy <svpegasu...@gmail.com> 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting Problem 

I would suggest checking for power (12v) at the small wire on the solenoid with 
the ignition switch in the start position. This will tell you if the switch and 
wiring is ok. Use a test light if you have one. The test light will put a small 
load on the circuit, where as a volt meter will not. Another quick test is to 
short between the battery hot at solenoid and the small wire terminal and see 
if it turns over. 
Good luck

Doug Mountjoy 
Pegasus
LF 38 hull  #4
Ballard WA. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 5, 2016, at 8:12 PM, Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List 
> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Stopped by the boat today planning to get prep'd for some work that need to 
> get done.
> 
> Figured I should kick the engine over just to make sure everything was 
> running smoothly.  Unfortunately I got nothing (absolutely nothing) from 
> turning the key.
> 
> 
> Batteries seem fine.  Able to run radio - and no visible dip in power to the 
> radio when trying to turn over the engine.
> 
> I had a similar experience a year ago after running the diesel for a few 
> hours - wind came up and we sailed for a bit, but then couldn't re-start.  
> That day I easily found a loose wire (clearly it had shaken loose with the 
> engine running for a long period) off a clip on the starter solenoid (?).
> 
> That was my first check today - but it was attached.  Pulled it off to clean 
> contact but no effect.
> 
> 
> I figure there are 3 possibilities
> 
> 1- ignition key failure - no signal to the starter to kick over
> 
> 2- starter/solenoid failure - I doubt this as I'd expect some type of noise 
> or power dip indicating that something was seized
> 
> 3- electrical connection failure - I can see a large wire leading to what I 
> presume is the solenoid, plus a couple of smaller wires connected as well.  
> Nothing obviously disconnected
> 
> 
> I need to head back down to the boat with a voltage meter - try to figure out 
> what is going on and hopefully find an easy fix!
> 
> 
> Any advice is appreciated.  I presume is the key is working them I'd get a 
> voltage spike at the solenoid when the key is turned. If nothing then it 
> suggests either 1 or 3.  Where should I see that?
> 
> I expect I'll pull the panel and check the contacts behind the ignition key - 
> maybe try hot-wiring it if I can figure out which wires are needed
> 
> Should I use automotive jumper cables to bypass the starter and try to spin 
> the starter/solenoid directly?
> 
> 
> The engine is a Volvo 2002 18HP
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for the advice,
> 
> Mark
> 
> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>  - George Santayana
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Starting Problem

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Mark,

not that I suggest that this might be the case, but these taught me not to 
assume anything...

I had two experiences of “nothing happening” with the engine on this boat.

The first one was my first try after I bought it and winterised it. The first 
start in the spring, I press the start button and nothing happens. My sequence 
was: battery switch to 1, ignition switch to glow plugs (spring loaded), hold 
it for 10 s, let it go (the key in the “on” position), press starter switch. 
Nothing happens. Our local diesel mechanic (after troubleshooting for a while) 
pointed that my sequence was wrong – I need to hold the key in the “glow plugs” 
position, when the engine is starting (or the starter motor is not energised). 
Hard learned lesson 1.

Lesson 2. This spring commissioning. I leave the batteries on the boat, but I 
disconnect the cables (both plus and minus). So in the spring, I connected all 
cables that I could see correctly, checked that all lights and instruments are 
working properly. When it was time to check the engine (I usually run it on the 
hard before launching), nothing. No power to the blower, the panel is not 
energised (e.g. the fuel gauge is not showing anything). When I turn the key 
and press the starter motor, the fuel gauge hand flies to the right (more than 
full). Turns out that the negative cable to the motor (and starter) was 
disconnected and it fell behind the batteries, so there was no visible clue. 
Interestingly a friend with the exact same boat had the same problem about 2 h 
before. It was the only part that made me feel a bit better. At least, this 
lesson did not cost me much.

Simply tying to say that if it worked before, it must be some simple problem. 
The worst case scenario, trace the wiring.

Marek
Ottawa, ON

From: Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List 
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 23:13
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Dr. Mark Bodnar 
Subject: Stus-List Starting Problem


Stopped by the boat today planning to get prep'd for some work that need 
to get done.

Figured I should kick the engine over just to make sure everything was 
running smoothly.  Unfortunately I got nothing (absolutely nothing) from 
turning the key.


Batteries seem fine.  Able to run radio - and no visible dip in power to 
the radio when trying to turn over the engine.

I had a similar experience a year ago after running the diesel for a few 
hours - wind came up and we sailed for a bit, but then couldn't 
re-start.  That day I easily found a loose wire (clearly it had shaken 
loose with the engine running for a long period) off a clip on the 
starter solenoid (?).

That was my first check today - but it was attached.  Pulled it off to 
clean contact but no effect.


I figure there are 3 possibilities

1- ignition key failure - no signal to the starter to kick over

2- starter/solenoid failure - I doubt this as I'd expect some type of 
noise or power dip indicating that something was seized

3- electrical connection failure - I can see a large wire leading to 
what I presume is the solenoid, plus a couple of smaller wires connected 
as well.  Nothing obviously disconnected


I need to head back down to the boat with a voltage meter - try to 
figure out what is going on and hopefully find an easy fix!


Any advice is appreciated.  I presume is the key is working them I'd get 
a voltage spike at the solenoid when the key is turned. If nothing then 
it suggests either 1 or 3.  Where should I see that?

I expect I'll pull the panel and check the contacts behind the ignition 
key - maybe try hot-wiring it if I can figure out which wires are needed

Should I use automotive jumper cables to bypass the starter and try to 
spin the starter/solenoid directly?


The engine is a Volvo 2002 18HP


Thanks in advance for the advice,

Mark

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
   - George Santayana


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Starting Problem

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I made a video that walks through the starting circuit on my yanmar.  Its
pretty generic, maybe it will help.

https://youtu.be/Mp2cGDa1VOU

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Jun 5, 2016 11:13 PM, "Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> Stopped by the boat today planning to get prep'd for some work that need
> to get done.
>
> Figured I should kick the engine over just to make sure everything was
> running smoothly.  Unfortunately I got nothing (absolutely nothing) from
> turning the key.
>
>
> Batteries seem fine.  Able to run radio - and no visible dip in power to
> the radio when trying to turn over the engine.
>
> I had a similar experience a year ago after running the diesel for a few
> hours - wind came up and we sailed for a bit, but then couldn't re-start.
> That day I easily found a loose wire (clearly it had shaken loose with the
> engine running for a long period) off a clip on the starter solenoid (?).
>
> That was my first check today - but it was attached.  Pulled it off to
> clean contact but no effect.
>
>
> I figure there are 3 possibilities
>
> 1- ignition key failure - no signal to the starter to kick over
>
> 2- starter/solenoid failure - I doubt this as I'd expect some type of
> noise or power dip indicating that something was seized
>
> 3- electrical connection failure - I can see a large wire leading to what
> I presume is the solenoid, plus a couple of smaller wires connected as
> well.  Nothing obviously disconnected
>
>
> I need to head back down to the boat with a voltage meter - try to figure
> out what is going on and hopefully find an easy fix!
>
>
> Any advice is appreciated.  I presume is the key is working them I'd get a
> voltage spike at the solenoid when the key is turned. If nothing then it
> suggests either 1 or 3.  Where should I see that?
>
> I expect I'll pull the panel and check the contacts behind the ignition
> key - maybe try hot-wiring it if I can figure out which wires are needed
>
> Should I use automotive jumper cables to bypass the starter and try to
> spin the starter/solenoid directly?
>
>
> The engine is a Volvo 2002 18HP
>
>
> Thanks in advance for the advice,
>
> Mark
>
> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>   - George Santayana
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Starting Problem

[Douglas Mountjoy via CnC-List]

I would suggest checking for power (12v) at the small wire on the solenoid with 
the ignition switch in the start position. This will tell you if the switch and 
wiring is ok. Use a test light if you have one. The test light will put a small 
load on the circuit, where as a volt meter will not. Another quick test is to 
short between the battery hot at solenoid and the small wire terminal and see 
if it turns over. 
Good luck

Doug Mountjoy 
Pegasus
LF 38 hull  #4
Ballard WA. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 5, 2016, at 8:12 PM, Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Stopped by the boat today planning to get prep'd for some work that need to 
> get done.
> 
> Figured I should kick the engine over just to make sure everything was 
> running smoothly.  Unfortunately I got nothing (absolutely nothing) from 
> turning the key.
> 
> 
> Batteries seem fine.  Able to run radio - and no visible dip in power to the 
> radio when trying to turn over the engine.
> 
> I had a similar experience a year ago after running the diesel for a few 
> hours - wind came up and we sailed for a bit, but then couldn't re-start.  
> That day I easily found a loose wire (clearly it had shaken loose with the 
> engine running for a long period) off a clip on the starter solenoid (?).
> 
> That was my first check today - but it was attached.  Pulled it off to clean 
> contact but no effect.
> 
> 
> I figure there are 3 possibilities
> 
> 1- ignition key failure - no signal to the starter to kick over
> 
> 2- starter/solenoid failure - I doubt this as I'd expect some type of noise 
> or power dip indicating that something was seized
> 
> 3- electrical connection failure - I can see a large wire leading to what I 
> presume is the solenoid, plus a couple of smaller wires connected as well.  
> Nothing obviously disconnected
> 
> 
> I need to head back down to the boat with a voltage meter - try to figure out 
> what is going on and hopefully find an easy fix!
> 
> 
> Any advice is appreciated.  I presume is the key is working them I'd get a 
> voltage spike at the solenoid when the key is turned. If nothing then it 
> suggests either 1 or 3.  Where should I see that?
> 
> I expect I'll pull the panel and check the contacts behind the ignition key - 
> maybe try hot-wiring it if I can figure out which wires are needed
> 
> Should I use automotive jumper cables to bypass the starter and try to spin 
> the starter/solenoid directly?
> 
> 
> The engine is a Volvo 2002 18HP
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for the advice,
> 
> Mark
> 
> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>  - George Santayana
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Starting Problem

[Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List]

Stopped by the boat today planning to get prep'd for some work that need 
to get done.


Figured I should kick the engine over just to make sure everything was 
running smoothly.  Unfortunately I got nothing (absolutely nothing) from 
turning the key.



Batteries seem fine.  Able to run radio - and no visible dip in power to 
the radio when trying to turn over the engine.


I had a similar experience a year ago after running the diesel for a few 
hours - wind came up and we sailed for a bit, but then couldn't 
re-start.  That day I easily found a loose wire (clearly it had shaken 
loose with the engine running for a long period) off a clip on the 
starter solenoid (?).


That was my first check today - but it was attached.  Pulled it off to 
clean contact but no effect.



I figure there are 3 possibilities

1- ignition key failure - no signal to the starter to kick over

2- starter/solenoid failure - I doubt this as I'd expect some type of 
noise or power dip indicating that something was seized


3- electrical connection failure - I can see a large wire leading to 
what I presume is the solenoid, plus a couple of smaller wires connected 
as well.  Nothing obviously disconnected



I need to head back down to the boat with a voltage meter - try to 
figure out what is going on and hopefully find an easy fix!



Any advice is appreciated.  I presume is the key is working them I'd get 
a voltage spike at the solenoid when the key is turned. If nothing then 
it suggests either 1 or 3.  Where should I see that?


I expect I'll pull the panel and check the contacts behind the ignition 
key - maybe try hot-wiring it if I can figure out which wires are needed


Should I use automotive jumper cables to bypass the starter and try to 
spin the starter/solenoid directly?



The engine is a Volvo 2002 18HP


Thanks in advance for the advice,

Mark

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!