Re: [cobbler-devel] Windows breed

[Jeff Schroeder]

On Tuesday, October 21, 2014, Alan Evangelista 
wrote:

> Cobbler is a Linux installation server, based on Linux boot loaders, Linux
> initrd/kernel
> and Linux automated installation processes. Why is there a Windows breed?
> How would someone
> use this to install a Windows system? imho this should be deleted.
>
>
> Regards,
> Alan Evangelista
>

Both the Windows PE stuff and SCCM make it pretty painless to install
windows entirely hands off ala kickstart. Cobbler is just really a smarter
PXE / tftp server so if the feature works (that is a big if!) seems
reasonable to not rip out. Just because you don't use it doesn't mean other
people don't.


-- 
Text by Jeff, typos by iPhone
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Re: [cobbler-devel] Windows breed

[Alan Evangelista]

On 10/21/2014 11:55 PM, Jeff Schroeder wrote:
On Tuesday, October 21, 2014, Alan Evangelista 
mailto:ala...@linux.vnet.ibm.com>> wrote:


Cobbler is a Linux installation server, based on Linux boot
loaders, Linux initrd/kernel
and Linux automated installation processes. Why is there a Windows
breed? How would someone
use this to install a Windows system? imho this should be deleted.


Both the Windows PE stuff and SCCM make it pretty painless to install 
windows entirely hands off ala kickstart. Cobbler is just really a 
smarter PXE / tftp server so if the feature works (that is a big if!) 
seems reasonable to not rip out.


I think Windows automated installation does *not* work in Cobbler 
because I do not see any windows
special handling in code, only the windows breed. I do not event know 
how to test this. What would I use

as kernel/initrd/kernel command line arguments/automatic installation file?



Just because you don't use it doesn't mean other people don't.


That's exactly the point of my email. I want to know if anybody has ever 
used or is using this feature.

It is useless to keep features which are not used and/or which do not work.


Regards,
Alan Evangelista

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Re: [cobbler-devel] Windows breed

[Eduardo Bacchi Kienetz]

On 10/22/2014 10:53 AM, Alan Evangelista wrote:

On 10/21/2014 11:55 PM, Jeff Schroeder wrote:
On Tuesday, October 21, 2014, Alan Evangelista 
mailto:ala...@linux.vnet.ibm.com>> wrote:


Cobbler is a Linux installation server, based on Linux boot
loaders, Linux initrd/kernel
and Linux automated installation processes. Why is there a Windows
breed? How would someone
use this to install a Windows system? imho this should be deleted.


Both the Windows PE stuff and SCCM make it pretty painless to install 
windows entirely hands off ala kickstart. Cobbler is just really a 
smarter PXE / tftp server so if the feature works (that is a big if!) 
seems reasonable to not rip out.


I think Windows automated installation does *not* work in Cobbler 
because I do not see any windows
special handling in code, only the windows breed. I do not event know 
how to test this. What would I use
as kernel/initrd/kernel command line arguments/automatic installation 
file?


Windows PE does not need special handling as far as I remember (from 
years ago). Only way to make sure is to try today, but I certainly 
wouldn't remove for not knowing how it works...





Just because you don't use it doesn't mean other people don't.


That's exactly the point of my email. I want to know if anybody has 
ever used or is using this feature.
It is useless to keep features which are not used and/or which do not 
work.


It's probably not useless, and as Jeff mentioned, could be handy.

My $0.02.

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Re: [cobbler-devel] Windows breed

[Alan Evangelista]

On 10/22/2014 11:00 AM, Eduardo Bacchi Kienetz wrote:

On 10/22/2014 10:53 AM, Alan Evangelista wrote:

On 10/21/2014 11:55 PM, Jeff Schroeder wrote:
On Tuesday, October 21, 2014, Alan Evangelista 
mailto:ala...@linux.vnet.ibm.com>> wrote:


Cobbler is a Linux installation server, based on Linux boot
loaders, Linux initrd/kernel
and Linux automated installation processes. Why is there a Windows
breed? How would someone
use this to install a Windows system? imho this should be deleted.


Both the Windows PE stuff and SCCM make it pretty painless to 
install windows entirely hands off ala kickstart. Cobbler is just 
really a smarter PXE / tftp server so if the feature works (that is 
a big if!) seems reasonable to not rip out.


I think Windows automated installation does *not* work in Cobbler 
because I do not see any windows
special handling in code, only the windows breed. I do not event know 
how to test this. What would I use
as kernel/initrd/kernel command line arguments/automatic installation 
file?


Windows PE does not need special handling as far as I remember (from 
years ago). Only way to make sure is to try today, but I certainly 
wouldn't remove for not knowing how it works...


I think I was misinterpreted. The reason to delete is not because I dont 
know how to use it,
but that nobody is using it. I'm against keeping a unused feature just 
because maybe it could
be useful in the future. I prefer to have a small set of features which 
are well maintained than

a big set of broken features.

Also, there is no Windows installation feature supported here, either 
automated or manual,
there is only a breed name. Whatever user does with this windows breed, 
he/she could do

equally with the unix breed.


Regards,
Alan Evangelista

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Re: [cobbler-devel] Windows breed

[Jörgen Maas]

A user contributed this:
https://github.com/cobbler/cobbler/wiki/Microsoft%20systems%20center

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 3:17 PM, Alan Evangelista  wrote:

> On 10/22/2014 11:00 AM, Eduardo Bacchi Kienetz wrote:
>
>> On 10/22/2014 10:53 AM, Alan Evangelista wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/21/2014 11:55 PM, Jeff Schroeder wrote:
>>>
 On Tuesday, October 21, 2014, Alan Evangelista <
 ala...@linux.vnet.ibm.com > wrote:

 Cobbler is a Linux installation server, based on Linux boot
 loaders, Linux initrd/kernel
 and Linux automated installation processes. Why is there a Windows
 breed? How would someone
 use this to install a Windows system? imho this should be deleted.


 Both the Windows PE stuff and SCCM make it pretty painless to install
 windows entirely hands off ala kickstart. Cobbler is just really a smarter
 PXE / tftp server so if the feature works (that is a big if!) seems
 reasonable to not rip out.

>>>
>>> I think Windows automated installation does *not* work in Cobbler
>>> because I do not see any windows
>>> special handling in code, only the windows breed. I do not event know
>>> how to test this. What would I use
>>> as kernel/initrd/kernel command line arguments/automatic installation
>>> file?
>>>
>>
>> Windows PE does not need special handling as far as I remember (from
>> years ago). Only way to make sure is to try today, but I certainly wouldn't
>> remove for not knowing how it works...
>>
>
> I think I was misinterpreted. The reason to delete is not because I dont
> know how to use it,
> but that nobody is using it. I'm against keeping a unused feature just
> because maybe it could
> be useful in the future. I prefer to have a small set of features which
> are well maintained than
> a big set of broken features.
>
> Also, there is no Windows installation feature supported here, either
> automated or manual,
> there is only a breed name. Whatever user does with this windows breed,
> he/she could do
> equally with the unix breed.
>
>
> Regards,
> Alan Evangelista
>
>
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>



-- 
Grtz,
Jörgen Maas
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Re: [cobbler-devel] Windows breed

[Alan Evangelista]

On 10/24/2014 03:27 PM, Jörgen Maas wrote:
A user contributed this: 
https://github.com/cobbler/cobbler/wiki/Microsoft%20systems%20center




Thank you, Jörgen. According to docs, the steps are extract some PXE 
related files from SSCM boot media,
copy them to Cobbler server and setup xinet conf file and boot loader 
conf file. Note that doc suggests that
pxedefault.template should be updated manually, so this would break 
Linux installations on the same Cobbler
server. Also, adding a distro and cobbler sync currently requires that 
each distro has an initrd value, which is
not set here. Thus, there is no "Windows installation" feature; doc 
above simply teachs how to hack Cobbler
and reuse its automatic DHCP/boot loader conf file generation to support 
Windows installation.


imho either "windows" should be removed from breed list or Windows 
installation should be correctly supported
in Cobbler. This means (1) allowing creation/sync'ing of a distro 
without initrd, (2) add a Windows SSCM boot
loader conf file template, (3) make tftpgen.py use this template when 
windows breed is selected, (4) improve

documentation about Windows installation.


Regards,
Alan Evangelista

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Re: [cobbler-devel] Windows breed

[J's Mail]

Alan,

For point 2, I'm feeling an echo of 'Support custom boot loader
configuration file templates' (
https://github.com/cobbler/cobbler/issues/1328).

Part of the conversation there was: do these pieces of pxe menu need to be
associated with a distro or with an image?  Can we create a sufficiently
useful abstraction that serves both use cases?

-- Jess

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 7:18 AM, Alan Evangelista  wrote:

> On 10/24/2014 03:27 PM, Jörgen Maas wrote:
>
>> A user contributed this: https://github.com/cobbler/
>> cobbler/wiki/Microsoft%20systems%20center
>>
>>
> Thank you, Jörgen. According to docs, the steps are extract some PXE
> related files from SSCM boot media,
> copy them to Cobbler server and setup xinet conf file and boot loader conf
> file. Note that doc suggests that
> pxedefault.template should be updated manually, so this would break Linux
> installations on the same Cobbler
> server. Also, adding a distro and cobbler sync currently requires that
> each distro has an initrd value, which is
> not set here. Thus, there is no "Windows installation" feature; doc above
> simply teachs how to hack Cobbler
> and reuse its automatic DHCP/boot loader conf file generation to support
> Windows installation.
>
> imho either "windows" should be removed from breed list or Windows
> installation should be correctly supported
> in Cobbler. This means (1) allowing creation/sync'ing of a distro without
> initrd, (2) add a Windows SSCM boot
> loader conf file template, (3) make tftpgen.py use this template when
> windows breed is selected, (4) improve
> documentation about Windows installation.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Alan Evangelista
>
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Re: [cobbler-devel] Windows breed

[Alan Evangelista]

On 11/10/2014 08:25 PM, J's Mail wrote:
For point 2, I'm feeling an echo of 'Support custom boot loader 
configuration file templates' 
(https://github.com/cobbler/cobbler/issues/1328).


They are certainly related, but imho supporting custom boot loader conf 
templates still do not
eliminate the need of adding the Windows SSCM boot loader conf file 
template to existing boot

loader conf templates if we want to officially support Windows.


Part of the conversation there was: do these pieces of pxe menu need 
to be associated with a distro or with an image? Can we create a 
sufficiently useful abstraction that serves both use cases?


The same boot loader conf file template already supports distro and image;
in former, initrd path, kernel paath and kernel command line must be 
filled; in latter,
only "kernel" path. Custom boot loader conf templates would just need to 
follow
existing boot loader conf templates' variables names (eg kernel_path, 
menu_label

and append_line).


Regards,
Alan Evangelista

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Re: [cobbler-devel] Windows breed

[Alan Evangelista]

On 11/10/2014 01:18 PM, Alan Evangelista wrote:

On 10/24/2014 03:27 PM, Jörgen Maas wrote:
A user contributed this: 
https://github.com/cobbler/cobbler/wiki/Microsoft%20systems%20center




Thank you, Jörgen. According to docs, the steps are extract some PXE 
related files from SSCM boot media,
copy them to Cobbler server and setup xinet conf file and boot loader 
conf file. Note that doc suggests that
pxedefault.template should be updated manually, so this would break 
Linux installations on the same Cobbler
server. Also, adding a distro and cobbler sync currently requires that 
each distro has an initrd value, which is
not set here. Thus, there is no "Windows installation" feature; doc 
above simply teachs how to hack Cobbler
and reuse its automatic DHCP/boot loader conf file generation to 
support Windows installation.


imho either "windows" should be removed from breed list or Windows 
installation should be correctly supported
in Cobbler. This means (1) allowing creation/sync'ing of a distro 
without initrd, (2) add a Windows SSCM boot
loader conf file template, (3) make tftpgen.py use this template when 
windows breed is selected, (4) improve

documentation about Windows installation.


I have created this issue: https://github.com/cobbler/cobbler/issues/1342

I suggest we delete windows breed until this is properly implemented, as 
it does

not affect Windows installation.


Regards,
Alan Evangelista

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Re: [cobbler-devel] Windows breed

[J's Mail]

I'm interested in learning Cobbler internals more.  I'm happy to help with
development of this feature.  I am not a Windows admin.  Is there someone
who's more familiar with the windows components that would be willing to
work with me?

Thanks

-- Jess

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 2:07 PM, Alan Evangelista  wrote:

> On 11/10/2014 01:18 PM, Alan Evangelista wrote:
>
>> On 10/24/2014 03:27 PM, Jörgen Maas wrote:
>>
>>> A user contributed this: https://github.com/cobbler/
>>> cobbler/wiki/Microsoft%20systems%20center
>>>
>>>
>> Thank you, Jörgen. According to docs, the steps are extract some PXE
>> related files from SSCM boot media,
>> copy them to Cobbler server and setup xinet conf file and boot loader
>> conf file. Note that doc suggests that
>> pxedefault.template should be updated manually, so this would break Linux
>> installations on the same Cobbler
>> server. Also, adding a distro and cobbler sync currently requires that
>> each distro has an initrd value, which is
>> not set here. Thus, there is no "Windows installation" feature; doc above
>> simply teachs how to hack Cobbler
>> and reuse its automatic DHCP/boot loader conf file generation to support
>> Windows installation.
>>
>> imho either "windows" should be removed from breed list or Windows
>> installation should be correctly supported
>> in Cobbler. This means (1) allowing creation/sync'ing of a distro without
>> initrd, (2) add a Windows SSCM boot
>> loader conf file template, (3) make tftpgen.py use this template when
>> windows breed is selected, (4) improve
>> documentation about Windows installation.
>>
>
> I have created this issue: https://github.com/cobbler/cobbler/issues/1342
>
> I suggest we delete windows breed until this is properly implemented, as
> it does
> not affect Windows installation.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Alan Evangelista
>
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