Re: [cobirds] State Bird Records Committee

[Gloria Nikolai]

Mark,
I love that you asked the question ND I love even more the reasoned and 
respectful reasons given in return. Thanks to all for benefiting the entire 
group with the conversation.

Happy birding,
Gloria Nikolai
El Paso County

Ps. FOS Spotted Sandpiper today in El Paso County :-)

From: cobirds@googlegroups.com  on behalf of Bill 
Maynard 
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 11:08:25 AM
To: mo...@yahoo.com
Cc: cobirds@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [cobirds] State Bird Records Committee

Mark,

You answered your own question by reminding birders about the Baikal Teal 
behind the Baskin Robbins.  It was a “real” bird but it was found during a 
period when Baikal Teal in their natural Asian range were in severe decline 
after having been the most common duck in its range.  Also, anyone can 
currently buy a pair of Baikal Teal for a farm pond for $400.  The 
ornithological record is way more than a birder’s eBird claims. It is a method 
of documentation that describes in writing for perpetuity what the bird was 
doing, what it looked like, where and when it was seen, and why it wasn’t a 
look-alike species. eBird reviewers and eBird users make mistakes.  Rare bird 
committee members make mistakes too, but there 7 people evaluate a record, ask 
experts from outside of CO when needed, vs. the one eBird reviewer.  If you 
want Baikal Teal on your personal list, tick it, but there were excellent 
ornithological reasons not to have it become part of the official CO bird list. 
 Careful documentation, especially when a suite of photos or sound recordings 
are included, adds very valuable ornithological information for Colorado. 
eBird, IMO, not so much.

Respectfully,

Bill Maynard
Colorado Springs
From: 'Mark Obmascik' via Colorado Birds [mailto:cobirds@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 9:36 AM
To: Colorado Birds
Subject: [cobirds] State Bird Records Committee

In an age of Ebird, CObirds, and even Facebook bird ID groups, why do Colorado 
and other states still have state bird record committees?

After John Ealy found the hooded oriole in his Douglas County backyard, many 
excellent birders asked to have documentation submitted to the Colorado Bird 
Records Committee, which decides whether rare-bird reports are legitimate. I 
submitted, but the process is a hassle. The website crashed, and instructions 
weren't always clear.

I know this an all-volunteer effort, and money is short, and I'm always in 
favor of something that increases interest in and knowledge about birds, but 
what does the committee do that isn't already being done elsewhere in a more 
convenient way? In my experience, Ebird reviewers do an excellent job of 
screening entries. (They've found a bunch of my mistakes.) Ebird and CObirds 
make it easy to add photos. And with its international reach, Facebook allows 
fast access to ID experts whose yardbirds are our vagrants.

It's also tough for me to forget how the committee decided that Bill Brockner's 
Baikal teal, seen by me and hundreds others behind the Baskin Robbins in 
Evergreen a few years back, was not actually a real Baikal teal.

If there's a good reason to keep submitting to bird records committees, I'd 
like to hear it.

Good birding.

Mark Obmascik
Denver, CO
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RE: [cobirds] State Bird Records Committee

[Bill Maynard]

Mark,

 

You answered your own question by reminding birders about the Baikal Teal 
behind the Baskin Robbins.  It was a “real” bird but it was found during a 
period when Baikal Teal in their natural Asian range were in severe decline 
after having been the most common duck in its range.  Also, anyone can 
currently buy a pair of Baikal Teal for a farm pond for $400.  The 
ornithological record is way more than a birder’s eBird claims. It is a method 
of documentation that describes in writing for perpetuity what the bird was 
doing, what it looked like, where and when it was seen, and why it wasn’t a 
look-alike species. eBird reviewers and eBird users make mistakes.  Rare bird 
committee members make mistakes too, but there 7 people evaluate a record, ask 
experts from outside of CO when needed, vs. the one eBird reviewer.  If you 
want Baikal Teal on your personal list, tick it, but there were excellent 
ornithological reasons not to have it become part of the official CO bird list. 
 Careful documentation, especially when a suite of photos or sound recordings 
are included, adds very valuable ornithological information for Colorado. 
eBird, IMO, not so much.

 

Respectfully,

 

Bill Maynard

Colorado Springs

From: 'Mark Obmascik' via Colorado Birds [mailto:cobirds@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 9:36 AM
To: Colorado Birds
Subject: [cobirds] State Bird Records Committee

 

In an age of Ebird, CObirds, and even Facebook bird ID groups, why do Colorado 
and other states still have state bird record committees?

 

After John Ealy found the hooded oriole in his Douglas County backyard, many 
excellent birders asked to have documentation submitted to the Colorado Bird 
Records Committee, which decides whether rare-bird reports are legitimate. I 
submitted, but the process is a hassle. The website crashed, and instructions 
weren't always clear.

 

I know this an all-volunteer effort, and money is short, and I'm always in 
favor of something that increases interest in and knowledge about birds, but 
what does the committee do that isn't already being done elsewhere in a more 
convenient way? In my experience, Ebird reviewers do an excellent job of 
screening entries. (They've found a bunch of my mistakes.) Ebird and CObirds 
make it easy to add photos. And with its international reach, Facebook allows 
fast access to ID experts whose yardbirds are our vagrants.

 

It's also tough for me to forget how the committee decided that Bill Brockner's 
Baikal teal, seen by me and hundreds others behind the Baskin Robbins in 
Evergreen a few years back, was not actually a real Baikal teal. 

 

If there's a good reason to keep submitting to bird records committees, I'd 
like to hear it.

 

Good birding.

 

Mark Obmascik

Denver, CO

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Re: [cobirds] State Bird Records Committee

[David Suddjian]

These pasted from the Colorado Bird Records Committee page <
http://coloradobirdrecords.org/> offer some response to the question:

"The primary purpose is to provide a repository for information regarding
the records of rare or unusual birds within the state of Colorado. In order
to perform this function, the CBRC solicits, collects, assembles, reviews,
renders opinions on, and permanently archives, in the Denver Museum of
Nature and Science, all documentation concerning rare and unusual bird
records in Colorado."

And

"Birding anecdotes are great fun, but like any oral history, they disappear
over time. By providing details of rare bird sightings in an archival
documentation, birders contribute to a collective body of knowledge that
spans generations.  The intent of the Colorado Bird Records Committee's
peer review process is NOT to validate an individual's sighting or personal
list, rather it is to establish a standard for which rare bird reports can
be used as scientific-quality data."

David Suddjian
Littleton, CO

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 9:35 AM, 'Mark Obmascik' via Colorado Birds <
cobirds@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> In an age of Ebird, CObirds, and even Facebook bird ID groups, why do
> Colorado and other states still have state bird record committees?
>
> After John Ealy found the hooded oriole in his Douglas County backyard,
> many excellent birders asked to have documentation submitted to the
> Colorado Bird Records Committee, which decides whether rare-bird reports
> are legitimate. I submitted, but the process is a hassle. The website
> crashed, and instructions weren't always clear.
>
> I know this an all-volunteer effort, and money is short, and I'm always in
> favor of something that increases interest in and knowledge about birds,
> but what does the committee do that isn't already being done elsewhere in a
> more convenient way? In my experience, Ebird reviewers do an excellent job
> of screening entries. (They've found a bunch of my mistakes.) Ebird and
> CObirds make it easy to add photos. And with its international reach,
> Facebook allows fast access to ID experts whose yardbirds are our vagrants.
>
> It's also tough for me to forget how the committee decided that Bill
> Brockner's Baikal teal, seen by me and hundreds others behind the Baskin
> Robbins in Evergreen a few years back, was not actually a real Baikal teal.
>
> If there's a good reason to keep submitting to bird records committees,
> I'd like to hear it.
>
> Good birding.
>
> Mark Obmascik
> Denver, CO
>
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Re: [cobirds] State Bird Records Committee

[Joe Roller]

Mark,
I understand your concerns, but Bird Record Committees have NOT been
surpassed by eBird,
and I am a huge supporter of e Bird. e Bird species ID reviewers do great
work, but each of them is staunchly
supportive of the CBRC.

Perhaps the current chair of the Colorado Bird Record Committee, Mark
Peterson or
the recent chair, Doug Faulkner, now President of CFO, can take the time to
answer your questions
point by point.

In the meantime, I will just say that detailed documentation of any rarity
and many more common birds
is absolutely necessary for Colorado to have a "clean" state list,
unimpeachable.
Norm Erthal found Colorado's first state record of Hooded Oriole, and he
and I (who was with him) prepared
detailed reports to the CBRC, even though there were fine photos. Yes, it
was sort of a hassle, but well worth the effort.
I yearn to send the CBRC detailed reports of the next Colorado Wood Stork,
Olive Warbler and other birds that require
documentation. Those would be happy hassles.

And to second guess the 7 or so highly expert committee members' decision
about the Baikal Teal is not reasonable. As I recall, the bird
was thought to be a "real female Baikal Teal," but it's "provenance" was
the sticking point. Many more Baikal Teal
are kept in aviaries in the US than are thought to have flown here from
Lake Baikal.  And there was an aviary
a short distance from Evergreen. That is just the way I recall it, perhaps
not exactly correct. Ditto with the
Evergreen Rufous-collared Sparrow. Species ID was not questioned, but they
are good singers, are
widely kept as cage birds and are not vagrants to the US.

Mark, I'd be glad to chat with you on the phone, as space here is limited.
There are marked differences
between e Bird reviews and CRBC reviews. Just look at the issue of Colorado
Birds that describes
the tremendous effort the CBRC did in analyzing the ID of Colorado's only
Kelp Gull and it's "wild"
provenance.

Joe Roller
proud CFO member since 1975


On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 9:35 AM, 'Mark Obmascik' via Colorado Birds <
cobirds@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> In an age of Ebird, CObirds, and even Facebook bird ID groups, why do
> Colorado and other states still have state bird record committees?
>
> After John Ealy found the hooded oriole in his Douglas County backyard,
> many excellent birders asked to have documentation submitted to the
> Colorado Bird Records Committee, which decides whether rare-bird reports
> are legitimate. I submitted, but the process is a hassle. The website
> crashed, and instructions weren't always clear.
>
> I know this an all-volunteer effort, and money is short, and I'm always in
> favor of something that increases interest in and knowledge about birds,
> but what does the committee do that isn't already being done elsewhere in a
> more convenient way? In my experience, Ebird reviewers do an excellent job
> of screening entries. (They've found a bunch of my mistakes.) Ebird and
> CObirds make it easy to add photos. And with its international reach,
> Facebook allows fast access to ID experts whose yardbirds are our vagrants.
>
> It's also tough for me to forget how the committee decided that Bill
> Brockner's Baikal teal, seen by me and hundreds others behind the Baskin
> Robbins in Evergreen a few years back, was not actually a real Baikal teal.
>
> If there's a good reason to keep submitting to bird records committees,
> I'd like to hear it.
>
> Good birding.
>
> Mark Obmascik
> Denver, CO
>
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Re: [cobirds] State Bird Records Committee

[Doug Faulkner]

Mark and Cobirds:

I will share the primary reason I believe that Bird Records Committees
(BRCs) are important.  They are repositories for bird records.  A one-stop
shop.  Yes, one can submit photos to eBird, Cobirds, and any number of
other online sites, but availability to that information is not
long-lived.  A BRC acts like a museum.  The records submitted to it are
available for easy, public consumption in perpetuity.  Yes, there is the
vetting process that BRCs perform for what constitutes a "record", and that
is important, but to me it is the repository aspect that makes BRCs
necessary.

One could argue that museums are no longer necessary because collecting is
not performed at the same level as in the past.  Yet, they provide a
valuable resource to researchers because of their repositories of
specimens.  In much the same way, BRCs provide a repository of bird records
that can be used by researchers now and 100 years from now.  Try finding
any information about the Hooded Oriole on the internet next year, 5 years
from now, or in 50 years.  Instant gratification and information sharing is
great, but it is fleeting.  BRCs are in it for the long-haul.

respectfully,

Doug Faulkner
Arvada, CO

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 9:35 AM, 'Mark Obmascik' via Colorado Birds <
cobirds@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> In an age of Ebird, CObirds, and even Facebook bird ID groups, why do
> Colorado and other states still have state bird record committees?
>
> After John Ealy found the hooded oriole in his Douglas County backyard,
> many excellent birders asked to have documentation submitted to the
> Colorado Bird Records Committee, which decides whether rare-bird reports
> are legitimate. I submitted, but the process is a hassle. The website
> crashed, and instructions weren't always clear.
>
> I know this an all-volunteer effort, and money is short, and I'm always in
> favor of something that increases interest in and knowledge about birds,
> but what does the committee do that isn't already being done elsewhere in a
> more convenient way? In my experience, Ebird reviewers do an excellent job
> of screening entries. (They've found a bunch of my mistakes.) Ebird and
> CObirds make it easy to add photos. And with its international reach,
> Facebook allows fast access to ID experts whose yardbirds are our vagrants.
>
> It's also tough for me to forget how the committee decided that Bill
> Brockner's Baikal teal, seen by me and hundreds others behind the Baskin
> Robbins in Evergreen a few years back, was not actually a real Baikal teal.
>
> If there's a good reason to keep submitting to bird records committees,
> I'd like to hear it.
>
> Good birding.
>
> Mark Obmascik
> Denver, CO
>
> --
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