Samples as tools for learning and development (Was: Giving up!Cocoon too big, slow and confusing)
Argyn Kuketayev wrote: I don't think that Cocoon is complex. I blame the very poor documentation. When you know how it works, it's simple. So, you have to get very familiar with the source codes to use Cocoon. I don't like it. I'd rather look under the hood only when I have non-trivial problems. Unfortunately, with Cocoon you have to do it all the time. E.g., Cocoon's samples are just to say hey, we have samples!. Not so. They are there as a learning tool for you. Yet they more than that. They provide the basis for you to create your own applications (copy-and-extend). Please read the following snippet from http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/overview.html#samples It will greatly assist your understanding of Cocoon to investigate behind-the-scenes, to find out how each sample is processed. Do this by looking at the actual XML documents provided in the distribution at webapp/docs/samples/ and by consulting the sitemap to see the processing steps that are defined. Please contribute other new samples as you see fit. I am interested to know how you propose to build a reliable finely-tuned publishing system using Cocoon without looking under the hood. I did not realise that we had reached that stage of automation yet. We certainly are aiming for that. In HEAD branch, the Samples are being re-organised into a set of clean, reliable, informative, individually-packaged samples. This makes it easy to use them as template apps. Eventually, high-level tools can utilise them. I hear that sitemap editing tools are starting to emerge too. For the moment you must look under the hood. Anyway, i find that getting my hands dirty is the best way to learn. Please follow the samples that others have tried to provide. You say that you need to get familiar with the source code in order to understand. Well, i do not touch any java code. I just copy and tweak the samples' xml/xsl files and sitemaps. --David - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Samples as tools for learning and development (Was: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing)
-Original Message- From: David Crossley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 2:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Samples as tools for learning and development (Was: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing) For the moment you must look under the hood. Anyway, i find that getting my hands dirty is the best way to learn. Please follow the samples that others have tried to provide. I always look at samples and docs. The issue is that there's not enough of them. And some people deny the very existance of this issue. However the docs are improving, and the message of this topic has been gotten, at least by few developers. Others are still in denial mode, but it's Ok. - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Samples as tools for learning and development (Was: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing)
I always look at samples and docs. The issue is that there's not enough of them. And some people deny the very existance of this issue. I have never heard anyone deny that. However the docs are improving, and the message of this topic has been gotten, at least by few developers. Others are still in denial mode, but it's Ok. No, the bulk of the message I tried to deliver is: everyone is aware of it, people are working on it, if it truely bothers you, pay for your opensource software and be one of those people. - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Samples as tools for learning and development (Was: Giving up ! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing)
-Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 9:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Samples as tools for learning and development (Was: Giving up ! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing) However the docs are improving, and the message of this topic has been gotten, at least by few developers. Others are still in denial mode, but it's Ok. No, the bulk of the message I tried to deliver is: everyone is aware of it, people are working on it, if it truely bothers you, pay for your opensource software and be one of those people. Andrew, that message was hidden in the noise. Trolling references, cathedral and bazaar mentions and other off-topic subjects did not help you, guys, to deliver the message. I'm left with the mixed feeling. At the end, I see that people recognize the issue and think of solutions, but at the same time the first reaction (He's giving up? Let him go.) is shocking. Also, repeating theme from many developers is MONEY, every other message advises me to pay MONEY. It's all off-topic. I'm amazed how experienced USENET, FIDO people were lost in off-topic. Forget Cathedral..., there's an issue. Solve it. We are not Free Software Prophets, we are programmers. Let's be pragmatic. I'm not complaining, it's just my poor English :) - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Samples as tools for learning and development (Was: Giving up ! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing)
On Saturday, June 29, 2002, at 10:04 AM, Argyn Kuketayev wrote: Also, repeating theme from many developers is MONEY, every other message advises me to pay MONEY. It's all off-topic. I'm amazed how experienced USENET, FIDO people were lost in off-topic. Forget Cathedral..., there's an issue. Solve it. We are not Free Software Prophets, we are programmers. Let's be pragmatic. I didn't interpret Andrew's message that way. I think he was suggesting you should pay (figuratively speaking) by helping (in *pragmatic* ways) to improve the docs. As for Free Software Prophets, we should be careful not to generalize or make broad assumptions about what motivates the people who participate on this list. People are here for different reasons, and IMHO that's a Good Thing. The beauty of it all is that in spite of our differences we can still work together and help to produce something truly amazing. -- Diana - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
