RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production
I was debating xml, xslt versus jsp with a colleague. He noted that although xml, xslt works well in a divided graphics/analyst/developer big team, it eventually was scrapped for JSP. The lack of object hierarchy and polymorphism made changes very difficult. Can anyone provide tales of xml, xslt in a major production? (sans company name, of course) We're certainly heading towards having a lot of xml and xslt in production. Can't imagine doing what we are doing with JSP: we need 100's of customized variations of any given screen. My reason for replying however is the comment on lack of object hierarchy and polymorphism. I'm confused by this: although it's certainly true that XSLT is not an OO language that doesn't mean it cannot map constructs to OO languages. In particular, XML can map OO isomorphically and XSLT can then traverse this mapping. Moreover, XSLT does allow for some many different types of hierarchy (include, import, modes and priorities) that, although different than OO aggregation and inheritance can be used in similar ways. Finally, much XSLT is run without schema/DTD validation which allows it in a way to support the ultimate in polymorphism: your data can dynamically change type. This last is a bit of a straw man, but let me put it this way; XSLT is Turing complete, anything you can program in any other language can be done with XSLT. It's not always easy, but then again, sometimes it's a lot easier than using JSP... - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Simple example
Once more ? =) Its in progress. Right now beginner documentation is a little thin. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Stefan Riegel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:41 PM Subject: Re: Simple example Alireza Fattahi wrote: Hi, The currently cocoon web application is very complex. Is there any light weight example out there; some thing like blank web application in struts. Alireza. - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alireza, I remember my first steps with cocoon some time ago. I removed step by step lines from the sitemap until I reached a minimal hello-world application. While removing lines, I did read the comments etc. I was a good exercise. I did plan doing the same with the cocoon.xconf, but I lost patience. Regards Stefan - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Simple example
Re: Hopefully some encouragement An introductory document would prove extremely useful for the Cocoon cause, as it sounds great in both concept and implementation. Some of us are in positions to recommend xml, xslt over the forsaken jsp, struts, ejb method, but cannot afford the time to master yet another complex st*nking framework. -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example Once more ? =) Its in progress. Right now beginner documentation is a little thin. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Stefan Riegel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:41 PM Subject: Re: Simple example Alireza Fattahi wrote: Hi, The currently cocoon web application is very complex. Is there any light weight example out there; some thing like blank web application in struts. Alireza. - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alireza, I remember my first steps with cocoon some time ago. I removed step by step lines from the sitemap until I reached a minimal hello-world application. While removing lines, I did read the comments etc. I was a good exercise. I did plan doing the same with the cocoon.xconf, but I lost patience. Regards Stefan - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Simple example
Jeremy Ashton, who recently published a book on Cocoon, wrote a very good two idots guide to Cocoon. This document is still online somewhere. I guess Jeremy can point it out, he's a frequent reader of this user-list. That document gave me a lot of support and help, back in the days Re: Hopefully some encouragement An introductory document would prove extremely useful for the Cocoon cause, as it sounds great in both concept and implementation. Some of us are in positions to recommend xml, xslt over the forsaken jsp, struts, ejb method, but cannot afford the time to master yet another complex st*nking framework. -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example Once more ? =) Its in progress. Right now beginner documentation is a little thin. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Stefan Riegel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:41 PM Subject: Re: Simple example Alireza Fattahi wrote: Hi, The currently cocoon web application is very complex. Is there any light weight example out there; some thing like blank web application in struts. Alireza. - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alireza, I remember my first steps with cocoon some time ago. I removed step by step lines from the sitemap until I reached a minimal hello-world application. While removing lines, I did read the comments etc. I was a good exercise. I did plan doing the same with the cocoon.xconf, but I lost patience. Regards Stefan - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Kind regards, Yves Vindevogel Implements Kortrijkstraat 2 bus 1 -- 9700 Oudenaarde -- Belgium Phone/Fax: +32 (55) 45.74.73 -- Mobile: +32 (478) 80.82.91 Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- www.implements.be Quote: The winner never says participating is more important than winning. - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production
Ah, thanks for the linx. I was debating xml, xslt versus jsp with a colleague. He noted that although xml, xslt works well in a divided graphics/analyst/developer big team, it eventually was scrapped for JSP. The lack of object hierarchy and polymorphism made changes very difficult. Can anyone provide tales of xml, xslt in a major production? (sans company name, of course) Thanks, -Original Message- From: Yves Vindevogel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example Jeremy Ashton, who recently published a book on Cocoon, wrote a very good two idots guide to Cocoon. This document is still online somewhere. I guess Jeremy can point it out, he's a frequent reader of this user-list. That document gave me a lot of support and help, back in the days Re: Hopefully some encouragement An introductory document would prove extremely useful for the Cocoon cause, as it sounds great in both concept and implementation. Some of us are in positions to recommend xml, xslt over the forsaken jsp, struts, ejb method, but cannot afford the time to master yet another complex st*nking framework. -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example Once more ? =) Its in progress. Right now beginner documentation is a little thin. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Stefan Riegel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:41 PM Subject: Re: Simple example Alireza Fattahi wrote: Hi, The currently cocoon web application is very complex. Is there any light weight example out there; some thing like blank web application in struts. Alireza. - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alireza, I remember my first steps with cocoon some time ago. I removed step by step lines from the sitemap until I reached a minimal hello-world application. While removing lines, I did read the comments etc. I was a good exercise. I did plan doing the same with the cocoon.xconf, but I lost patience. Regards Stefan - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Kind regards, Yves Vindevogel Implements Kortrijkstraat 2 bus 1 -- 9700 Oudenaarde -- Belgium Phone/Fax: +32 (55) 45.74.73 -- Mobile: +32 (478) 80.82.91 Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- www.implements.be Quote: The winner never says participating is more important than winning. - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production
Actually, I'm comparing xml to java, not product to product. And that was not my opinion; I've been sold on xml for some time; however my experience has been system to system, not webby front-end. Btw. It seems most people like mopeds. Adrian Boston -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Huh? JSP has no object hierarchy. JSP is basically a way to write a servlet without having to implement the servlet interfaces. In short it is a shortcut. The end result of JSP is always a servlet (one per JSP page). XML/XSLT is a totally different paradigm. In cocoon generators are used to deliver DATA. This data is in XML form. There is no logic mixed into this data as is the case with JSP. Then The XML data is transformed (very mathematically) into content. This content can be HTML, another XML document such as a soap request, WML, PDF and so on. So, as a matter of fact JSP mixes not only model and view but also model view AND controller. In the cocoon world the Generators and actions are controllers. The XML is the model and the view is accomplished through XSLT transforms. Its the same for XSP. In this case an XSP is translated into, not a servlet like JSP, but a generator. So even though you write an XSP to implement some functionality, this XSP is still going to be spitting out XML which must be transformed into content. Comparing the two is like comparing a moped to a Ferrari. The cocoon way is CLEARLY superior for any number of project planning, resource management and software engineering reasons. -- Derisor - Original Message - From: Adrian Boston [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:45 AM Subject: RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Ah, thanks for the linx. I was debating xml, xslt versus jsp with a colleague. He noted that although xml, xslt works well in a divided graphics/analyst/developer big team, it eventually was scrapped for JSP. The lack of object hierarchy and polymorphism made changes very difficult. Can anyone provide tales of xml, xslt in a major production? (sans company name, of course) Thanks, -Original Message- From: Yves Vindevogel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example Jeremy Ashton, who recently published a book on Cocoon, wrote a very good two idots guide to Cocoon. This document is still online somewhere. I guess Jeremy can point it out, he's a frequent reader of this user-list. That document gave me a lot of support and help, back in the days Re: Hopefully some encouragement An introductory document would prove extremely useful for the Cocoon cause, as it sounds great in both concept and implementation. Some of us are in positions to recommend xml, xslt over the forsaken jsp, struts, ejb method, but cannot afford the time to master yet another complex st*nking framework. -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example Once more ? =) Its in progress. Right now beginner documentation is a little thin. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Stefan Riegel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:41 PM Subject: Re: Simple example Alireza Fattahi wrote: Hi, The currently cocoon web application is very complex. Is there any light weight example out there; some thing like blank web application in struts. Alireza. - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alireza, I remember my first steps with cocoon some time ago. I removed step by step lines from the sitemap until I reached a minimal hello-world application. While removing lines, I did read the comments etc. I was a good exercise. I did plan doing the same with the cocoon.xconf, but I lost patience. Regards Stefan - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL
Re: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production
Comparing JAVA to XML is roughly like comparing a outhouse to a Ferrari. They are two totally different things that are made to solve totally different problems. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Adrian Boston [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:18 AM Subject: RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Actually, I'm comparing xml to java, not product to product. And that was not my opinion; I've been sold on xml for some time; however my experience has been system to system, not webby front-end. Btw. It seems most people like mopeds. Adrian Boston -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Huh? JSP has no object hierarchy. JSP is basically a way to write a servlet without having to implement the servlet interfaces. In short it is a shortcut. The end result of JSP is always a servlet (one per JSP page). XML/XSLT is a totally different paradigm. In cocoon generators are used to deliver DATA. This data is in XML form. There is no logic mixed into this data as is the case with JSP. Then The XML data is transformed (very mathematically) into content. This content can be HTML, another XML document such as a soap request, WML, PDF and so on. So, as a matter of fact JSP mixes not only model and view but also model view AND controller. In the cocoon world the Generators and actions are controllers. The XML is the model and the view is accomplished through XSLT transforms. Its the same for XSP. In this case an XSP is translated into, not a servlet like JSP, but a generator. So even though you write an XSP to implement some functionality, this XSP is still going to be spitting out XML which must be transformed into content. Comparing the two is like comparing a moped to a Ferrari. The cocoon way is CLEARLY superior for any number of project planning, resource management and software engineering reasons. -- Derisor - Original Message - From: Adrian Boston [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:45 AM Subject: RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Ah, thanks for the linx. I was debating xml, xslt versus jsp with a colleague. He noted that although xml, xslt works well in a divided graphics/analyst/developer big team, it eventually was scrapped for JSP. The lack of object hierarchy and polymorphism made changes very difficult. Can anyone provide tales of xml, xslt in a major production? (sans company name, of course) Thanks, -Original Message- From: Yves Vindevogel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example Jeremy Ashton, who recently published a book on Cocoon, wrote a very good two idots guide to Cocoon. This document is still online somewhere. I guess Jeremy can point it out, he's a frequent reader of this user-list. That document gave me a lot of support and help, back in the days Re: Hopefully some encouragement An introductory document would prove extremely useful for the Cocoon cause, as it sounds great in both concept and implementation. Some of us are in positions to recommend xml, xslt over the forsaken jsp, struts, ejb method, but cannot afford the time to master yet another complex st*nking framework. -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example Once more ? =) Its in progress. Right now beginner documentation is a little thin. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Stefan Riegel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:41 PM Subject: Re: Simple example Alireza Fattahi wrote: Hi, The currently cocoon web application is very complex. Is there any light weight example out there; some thing like blank web application in struts. Alireza. - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alireza, I remember my first steps with cocoon some time ago. I removed step by step lines from the sitemap until I reached a minimal hello-world application. While removing lines, I did read the comments etc. I was a good exercise. I did plan doing the same with the cocoon.xconf, but I lost patience. Regards Stefan - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED
RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production
Oh. OK. We shall see when you start programming in xml, xslt, xpath, xthis, xthat. Unless you're well endowed with a bushy moustache and still love disco, I'd recommend stay away from Ferrari's. Move on up to a Porsche. -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 4:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Comparing JAVA to XML is roughly like comparing a outhouse to a Ferrari. They are two totally different things that are made to solve totally different problems. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Adrian Boston [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:18 AM Subject: RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Actually, I'm comparing xml to java, not product to product. And that was not my opinion; I've been sold on xml for some time; however my experience has been system to system, not webby front-end. Btw. It seems most people like mopeds. Adrian Boston -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Huh? JSP has no object hierarchy. JSP is basically a way to write a servlet without having to implement the servlet interfaces. In short it is a shortcut. The end result of JSP is always a servlet (one per JSP page). XML/XSLT is a totally different paradigm. In cocoon generators are used to deliver DATA. This data is in XML form. There is no logic mixed into this data as is the case with JSP. Then The XML data is transformed (very mathematically) into content. This content can be HTML, another XML document such as a soap request, WML, PDF and so on. So, as a matter of fact JSP mixes not only model and view but also model view AND controller. In the cocoon world the Generators and actions are controllers. The XML is the model and the view is accomplished through XSLT transforms. Its the same for XSP. In this case an XSP is translated into, not a servlet like JSP, but a generator. So even though you write an XSP to implement some functionality, this XSP is still going to be spitting out XML which must be transformed into content. Comparing the two is like comparing a moped to a Ferrari. The cocoon way is CLEARLY superior for any number of project planning, resource management and software engineering reasons. -- Derisor - Original Message - From: Adrian Boston [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:45 AM Subject: RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Ah, thanks for the linx. I was debating xml, xslt versus jsp with a colleague. He noted that although xml, xslt works well in a divided graphics/analyst/developer big team, it eventually was scrapped for JSP. The lack of object hierarchy and polymorphism made changes very difficult. Can anyone provide tales of xml, xslt in a major production? (sans company name, of course) Thanks, -Original Message- From: Yves Vindevogel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example Jeremy Ashton, who recently published a book on Cocoon, wrote a very good two idots guide to Cocoon. This document is still online somewhere. I guess Jeremy can point it out, he's a frequent reader of this user-list. That document gave me a lot of support and help, back in the days Re: Hopefully some encouragement An introductory document would prove extremely useful for the Cocoon cause, as it sounds great in both concept and implementation. Some of us are in positions to recommend xml, xslt over the forsaken jsp, struts, ejb method, but cannot afford the time to master yet another complex st*nking framework. -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example Once more ? =) Its in progress. Right now beginner documentation is a little thin. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Stefan Riegel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:41 PM Subject: Re: Simple example Alireza Fattahi wrote: Hi, The currently cocoon web application is very complex. Is there any light weight example out there; some thing like blank web application in struts. Alireza. - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alireza, I remember my first steps with cocoon some time ago. I removed step by step lines from the sitemap until I reached a minimal hello-world application. While removing
Re: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production
you can have the 100k Porsche, Ill take the half a million dollar Ferrari. I have been doing XSL for quite a while. I'm relatively new to cocoon, not to XML. People that use XML for logic and programming need to have their head examined IMHO. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Adrian Boston [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:34 AM Subject: RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Oh. OK. We shall see when you start programming in xml, xslt, xpath, xthis, xthat. Unless you're well endowed with a bushy moustache and still love disco, I'd recommend stay away from Ferrari's. Move on up to a Porsche. -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 4:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Comparing JAVA to XML is roughly like comparing a outhouse to a Ferrari. They are two totally different things that are made to solve totally different problems. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Adrian Boston [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:18 AM Subject: RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Actually, I'm comparing xml to java, not product to product. And that was not my opinion; I've been sold on xml for some time; however my experience has been system to system, not webby front-end. Btw. It seems most people like mopeds. Adrian Boston -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Huh? JSP has no object hierarchy. JSP is basically a way to write a servlet without having to implement the servlet interfaces. In short it is a shortcut. The end result of JSP is always a servlet (one per JSP page). XML/XSLT is a totally different paradigm. In cocoon generators are used to deliver DATA. This data is in XML form. There is no logic mixed into this data as is the case with JSP. Then The XML data is transformed (very mathematically) into content. This content can be HTML, another XML document such as a soap request, WML, PDF and so on. So, as a matter of fact JSP mixes not only model and view but also model view AND controller. In the cocoon world the Generators and actions are controllers. The XML is the model and the view is accomplished through XSLT transforms. Its the same for XSP. In this case an XSP is translated into, not a servlet like JSP, but a generator. So even though you write an XSP to implement some functionality, this XSP is still going to be spitting out XML which must be transformed into content. Comparing the two is like comparing a moped to a Ferrari. The cocoon way is CLEARLY superior for any number of project planning, resource management and software engineering reasons. -- Derisor - Original Message - From: Adrian Boston [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:45 AM Subject: RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Ah, thanks for the linx. I was debating xml, xslt versus jsp with a colleague. He noted that although xml, xslt works well in a divided graphics/analyst/developer big team, it eventually was scrapped for JSP. The lack of object hierarchy and polymorphism made changes very difficult. Can anyone provide tales of xml, xslt in a major production? (sans company name, of course) Thanks, -Original Message- From: Yves Vindevogel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example Jeremy Ashton, who recently published a book on Cocoon, wrote a very good two idots guide to Cocoon. This document is still online somewhere. I guess Jeremy can point it out, he's a frequent reader of this user-list. That document gave me a lot of support and help, back in the days Re: Hopefully some encouragement An introductory document would prove extremely useful for the Cocoon cause, as it sounds great in both concept and implementation. Some of us are in positions to recommend xml, xslt over the forsaken jsp, struts, ejb method, but cannot afford the time to master yet another complex st*nking framework. -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example Once more ? =) Its in progress. Right now beginner documentation is a little thin. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Stefan Riegel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:41 PM Subject: Re: Simple example Alireza Fattahi wrote: Hi, The currently cocoon web application is very complex. Is there any light weight example out there; some thing like blank web application in struts. Alireza
RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production
Greaaat. Thanks for saving me a couple of weeks work. I'll make a note in my documents, Robert said XML was OK. It's fine to hold you responsible right? Once again, as carefully noted in my first post: a) not my opinion. b) xml is cool. If you want to comment on your xml success in your production systems, great, otherwise, drsvp. -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 4:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production you can have the 100k Porsche, Ill take the half a million dollar Ferrari. I have been doing XSL for quite a while. I'm relatively new to cocoon, not to XML. People that use XML for logic and programming need to have their head examined IMHO. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Adrian Boston [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:34 AM Subject: RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Oh. OK. We shall see when you start programming in xml, xslt, xpath, xthis, xthat. Unless you're well endowed with a bushy moustache and still love disco, I'd recommend stay away from Ferrari's. Move on up to a Porsche. -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 4:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Comparing JAVA to XML is roughly like comparing a outhouse to a Ferrari. They are two totally different things that are made to solve totally different problems. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Adrian Boston [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:18 AM Subject: RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Actually, I'm comparing xml to java, not product to product. And that was not my opinion; I've been sold on xml for some time; however my experience has been system to system, not webby front-end. Btw. It seems most people like mopeds. Adrian Boston -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Huh? JSP has no object hierarchy. JSP is basically a way to write a servlet without having to implement the servlet interfaces. In short it is a shortcut. The end result of JSP is always a servlet (one per JSP page). XML/XSLT is a totally different paradigm. In cocoon generators are used to deliver DATA. This data is in XML form. There is no logic mixed into this data as is the case with JSP. Then The XML data is transformed (very mathematically) into content. This content can be HTML, another XML document such as a soap request, WML, PDF and so on. So, as a matter of fact JSP mixes not only model and view but also model view AND controller. In the cocoon world the Generators and actions are controllers. The XML is the model and the view is accomplished through XSLT transforms. Its the same for XSP. In this case an XSP is translated into, not a servlet like JSP, but a generator. So even though you write an XSP to implement some functionality, this XSP is still going to be spitting out XML which must be transformed into content. Comparing the two is like comparing a moped to a Ferrari. The cocoon way is CLEARLY superior for any number of project planning, resource management and software engineering reasons. -- Derisor - Original Message - From: Adrian Boston [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:45 AM Subject: RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Ah, thanks for the linx. I was debating xml, xslt versus jsp with a colleague. He noted that although xml, xslt works well in a divided graphics/analyst/developer big team, it eventually was scrapped for JSP. The lack of object hierarchy and polymorphism made changes very difficult. Can anyone provide tales of xml, xslt in a major production? (sans company name, of course) Thanks, -Original Message- From: Yves Vindevogel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example Jeremy Ashton, who recently published a book on Cocoon, wrote a very good two idots guide to Cocoon. This document is still online somewhere. I guess Jeremy can point it out, he's a frequent reader of this user-list. That document gave me a lot of support and help, back in the days Re: Hopefully some encouragement An introductory document would prove extremely useful for the Cocoon cause, as it sounds great in both concept and implementation. Some of us are in positions to recommend xml, xslt over the forsaken jsp, struts, ejb method, but cannot afford the time to master yet another complex st*nking framework. -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example
Re: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production
What exactly does this attitude serve. If you don't want people's opinion, don't post to a public mailing list. Enough of this topic, its quite clear that you value your sarcasm over honest answers. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Adrian Boston [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 2:12 AM Subject: RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Greaaat. Thanks for saving me a couple of weeks work. I'll make a note in my documents, Robert said XML was OK. It's fine to hold you responsible right? Once again, as carefully noted in my first post: a) not my opinion. b) xml is cool. If you want to comment on your xml success in your production systems, great, otherwise, drsvp. -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 4:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production you can have the 100k Porsche, Ill take the half a million dollar Ferrari. I have been doing XSL for quite a while. I'm relatively new to cocoon, not to XML. People that use XML for logic and programming need to have their head examined IMHO. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Adrian Boston [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:34 AM Subject: RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Oh. OK. We shall see when you start programming in xml, xslt, xpath, xthis, xthat. Unless you're well endowed with a bushy moustache and still love disco, I'd recommend stay away from Ferrari's. Move on up to a Porsche. -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 4:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Comparing JAVA to XML is roughly like comparing a outhouse to a Ferrari. They are two totally different things that are made to solve totally different problems. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Adrian Boston [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:18 AM Subject: RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Actually, I'm comparing xml to java, not product to product. And that was not my opinion; I've been sold on xml for some time; however my experience has been system to system, not webby front-end. Btw. It seems most people like mopeds. Adrian Boston -Original Message- From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Huh? JSP has no object hierarchy. JSP is basically a way to write a servlet without having to implement the servlet interfaces. In short it is a shortcut. The end result of JSP is always a servlet (one per JSP page). XML/XSLT is a totally different paradigm. In cocoon generators are used to deliver DATA. This data is in XML form. There is no logic mixed into this data as is the case with JSP. Then The XML data is transformed (very mathematically) into content. This content can be HTML, another XML document such as a soap request, WML, PDF and so on. So, as a matter of fact JSP mixes not only model and view but also model view AND controller. In the cocoon world the Generators and actions are controllers. The XML is the model and the view is accomplished through XSLT transforms. Its the same for XSP. In this case an XSP is translated into, not a servlet like JSP, but a generator. So even though you write an XSP to implement some functionality, this XSP is still going to be spitting out XML which must be transformed into content. Comparing the two is like comparing a moped to a Ferrari. The cocoon way is CLEARLY superior for any number of project planning, resource management and software engineering reasons. -- Derisor - Original Message - From: Adrian Boston [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:45 AM Subject: RE: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production Ah, thanks for the linx. I was debating xml, xslt versus jsp with a colleague. He noted that although xml, xslt works well in a divided graphics/analyst/developer big team, it eventually was scrapped for JSP. The lack of object hierarchy and polymorphism made changes very difficult. Can anyone provide tales of xml, xslt in a major production? (sans company name, of course) Thanks, -Original Message- From: Yves Vindevogel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Simple example Jeremy Ashton, who recently published a book on Cocoon, wrote a very good two idots guide to Cocoon. This document is still online somewhere. I guess Jeremy can point it out, he's a frequent reader of this user-list. That document gave me a lot of support and help, back in the days Re: Hopefully some encouragement An introductory document would prove extremely useful for the Cocoon cause
Re: Simple example / XML / XSLT In production
Adrian Boston wrote: If you want to comment on your xml success in your production systems, great, otherwise, drsvp. Adrian, Robert, as perhaps has become obvious something like a week ago, we try to refrain from personal comments other than some light banter on this list. Cocoon-users has always been a friendly community in the past, and we'd like to keep it that way. I see Robert is back, for which I'm happy. But please, let's keep the spirit high. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Simple example
Alireza Fattahi wrote: Hi, The currently cocoon web application is very complex. Is there any light weight example out there; some thing like blank web application in struts. Alireza. - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alireza, I remember my first steps with cocoon some time ago. I removed step by step lines from the sitemap until I reached a minimal hello-world application. While removing lines, I did read the comments etc. I was a good exercise. I did plan doing the same with the cocoon.xconf, but I lost patience. Regards Stefan - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Simple example
Hi, The currently cocoon web application is very complex. Is there any light weight example out there; some thing like blank web application in struts. Alireza. - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Any example of a cached XSP-page needed (C1.8.2) - would anyone send a simple example?
Hi,
I was trying to find out how I can cache a XSP-page. But the message
..served form cache.. is not in the bottom of my pages. So... does anyone
have a working example that they would like to share? I have looked in the
Cache documentation, but I need a full working example.
Below is my try - There are no errors but also no cache.
/Bjarne
?xml version=1.0 encoding=iso-8859-1?
?cocoon-process type=xsp?
xsp:page xmlns:xsp=http://www.apache.org/1999/XSP/Core;
xmlns:util=http://www.apache.org/1999/XSP/Util;
xsp:structure
util:cacheable/
/xsp:structure
xsp:logic
public boolean hasChanged (Object context) {
return false;
}
/xsp:logic
html
xsp:logic
// Define a variable to hold the time of day
Date now = new Date();
/xsp:logic
p
To the best of my knowledge, it's now
!-- Substitute time of day here --
xsp:exprnow/xsp:expr
/p
/html
/xsp:page
-
Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faqs.html
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