Re: [CODE4LIB] What is a "coder"? / Coursera fork

[Timothy A. Lepczyk]

It could be cool to have like code4lib MOOC study groups. Like if there are
people taking the same courses and they have a loose affiliation with one
another through C4L that could be a much better starting point than
randomly trying to meet people.

*
*
*

Timothy A. Lepczyk*
Digital Humanities & Pedagogy Fellow
Hendrix College


On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Ross Singer  wrote:

> I started taking the "Functional Programming in Scala" course offered a
> couple of months ago, but it was an enormous time commitment. I had a
> week-long trip to the office (in the UK - my job is a long and confusing
> story) which got me so far behind (two weeks, the way the lessons ran),
> that I would have had no hope of catching up (with, like Shaun, a full-time
> job and two young children), so I had to drop out after about 3 or 4 weeks.
>
> I'm sort of conflicted about this. I understand Coursera's problem:
> courses can't be too simple, or else there's no legitimacy. But at the same
> time, every course can't be a weeder course, either. I legitimately spent
> *way* more time per week on this course than I did on *any* course in
> college (at least not this much effort /every week/), but at the end of the
> day, the amount of any practical knowledge I was gaining from the course
> was being far overwhelmed by things I actually needed to be learning
> immediately for my job and general obligations to my life and family.
>
> Maybe I just chose the wrong class, but Coursera's curriculum seems pretty
> terrible for professional development. It's great, however, if you have
> time to be a full-time student.
>
> -Ross.
>
> On Nov 30, 2012, at 4:32 PM, "Donahue, Amy"  wrote:
>
> > Another little quick comment, adding to the chorus of lurkers and people
> who aren't sure if they're coders.  Someday I hope to get to a code4lib
> conference (if only to tell people in person I knew Jonathan Rochkind way
> back when), but in the meantime I've been on this list on and off (but
> mostly on) since I graduated, and it's been nothing but a wonderful
> resource, and a place I know I can always turn for that time when I have a
> tech question.
> >
> > But I wanted to point out a possible resource for those of us who aren't
> sure of what we know and who want to know more.  Coursera has been on my
> radar through multiple channels, but not yet on here.  It appears they do
> have some basic programming courses, as well as theory.  I'm curious to
> know if anyone has taken any of these, or has any thoughts on this method
> of learning... https://www.coursera.org/category/cs-programming
> >
> > Amy
> > ---
> > Amy Donahue, MLIS, AHIP
> > 414.955.8326
> > User Education/Reference Librarian
> > Medical College of Wisconsin Libraries - Link. Learn. Lead.
> > http://www.mcw.edu/mcwlibraries.htm
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Bess Sadler
> > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 12:07 PM
> > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] What is a "coder"?
> >
> > On Nov 29, 2012, at 6:13 AM, Christie Peterson 
> wrote:
> >
> >> If this were "training" in the sense of a seminar or a formal class on
> the exact same topics, I would be eligible for full funding, but since it's
> a "conference," it's funded at a significantly lower level. I'll gladly
> take suggestions anyone has for arguments about why attendance at these
> types of events is critical to successfully doing my work in a way that,
> say, attending ALA isn't -- and why, therefore, they should be supported at
> a higher funding rate than typical "library" conferences. Any non-coders
> successfully made this argument before?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Christie S. Peterson
> >
> > Christie you are not the only person who can get travel funding for
> training but not for conferences, and you are not the only person on the
> fence about whether you belong in code4lib. In my mind you are exactly the
> kind of person I would like to attract to code4lib, so I very much hope
> you'll join us. Archives in particular are facing significant technological
> challenges right now, and as someone who has been known to develop software
> for born digital archives[1] I have seen how vital it is to have a common
> language and vocabulary, and a common way of approaching problem solving,
> in order to create a system that will actually work according to archival
> principles.
> >
> > One option to consider would be signing up for one of the
> pre-conferences. Given the background you've described and the challenges
> you face in your career, I think you could make a very strong argument that
> having a basic introduction to programming concepts would be helpful for
> you. Luckily there is a free full-day of training to be had the day before
> the conference starts! Please consider joining us at the RailsBridge and/or
> Blacklight workshops or at any of the other w

Re: [CODE4LIB] What is a "coder"? / Coursera fork

[Karen Coyle]

I think this is a great idea. I've got some training that I do 
face-to-face and people have been bugging me to turn it into an online 
course. But in the classroom the best learning takes place when people 
do the exercises in groups. I've watched the class go from passive 
listening to very active learning and exploring in a matter of seconds. 
I think that group work is essential, and that is something that online 
courses don't provide. There is discussion, but not really working out 
the problems with others. I really hate to give that up.


kc

On 12/1/12 8:42 AM, Timothy A. Lepczyk wrote:

It could be cool to have like code4lib MOOC study groups. Like if there are
people taking the same courses and they have a loose affiliation with one
another through C4L that could be a much better starting point than
randomly trying to meet people.

*
*
*

Timothy A. Lepczyk*
Digital Humanities & Pedagogy Fellow
Hendrix College


On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Ross Singer  wrote:


I started taking the "Functional Programming in Scala" course offered a
couple of months ago, but it was an enormous time commitment. I had a
week-long trip to the office (in the UK - my job is a long and confusing
story) which got me so far behind (two weeks, the way the lessons ran),
that I would have had no hope of catching up (with, like Shaun, a full-time
job and two young children), so I had to drop out after about 3 or 4 weeks.

I'm sort of conflicted about this. I understand Coursera's problem:
courses can't be too simple, or else there's no legitimacy. But at the same
time, every course can't be a weeder course, either. I legitimately spent
*way* more time per week on this course than I did on *any* course in
college (at least not this much effort /every week/), but at the end of the
day, the amount of any practical knowledge I was gaining from the course
was being far overwhelmed by things I actually needed to be learning
immediately for my job and general obligations to my life and family.

Maybe I just chose the wrong class, but Coursera's curriculum seems pretty
terrible for professional development. It's great, however, if you have
time to be a full-time student.

-Ross.

On Nov 30, 2012, at 4:32 PM, "Donahue, Amy"  wrote:


Another little quick comment, adding to the chorus of lurkers and people

who aren't sure if they're coders.  Someday I hope to get to a code4lib
conference (if only to tell people in person I knew Jonathan Rochkind way
back when), but in the meantime I've been on this list on and off (but
mostly on) since I graduated, and it's been nothing but a wonderful
resource, and a place I know I can always turn for that time when I have a
tech question.

But I wanted to point out a possible resource for those of us who aren't

sure of what we know and who want to know more.  Coursera has been on my
radar through multiple channels, but not yet on here.  It appears they do
have some basic programming courses, as well as theory.  I'm curious to
know if anyone has taken any of these, or has any thoughts on this method
of learning... https://www.coursera.org/category/cs-programming

Amy
---
Amy Donahue, MLIS, AHIP
414.955.8326
User Education/Reference Librarian
Medical College of Wisconsin Libraries - Link. Learn. Lead.
http://www.mcw.edu/mcwlibraries.htm

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of

Bess Sadler

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 12:07 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] What is a "coder"?

On Nov 29, 2012, at 6:13 AM, Christie Peterson 

wrote:

If this were "training" in the sense of a seminar or a formal class on

the exact same topics, I would be eligible for full funding, but since it's
a "conference," it's funded at a significantly lower level. I'll gladly
take suggestions anyone has for arguments about why attendance at these
types of events is critical to successfully doing my work in a way that,
say, attending ALA isn't -- and why, therefore, they should be supported at
a higher funding rate than typical "library" conferences. Any non-coders
successfully made this argument before?

Cheers,

Christie S. Peterson

Christie you are not the only person who can get travel funding for

training but not for conferences, and you are not the only person on the
fence about whether you belong in code4lib. In my mind you are exactly the
kind of person I would like to attract to code4lib, so I very much hope
you'll join us. Archives in particular are facing significant technological
challenges right now, and as someone who has been known to develop software
for born digital archives[1] I have seen how vital it is to have a common
language and vocabulary, and a common way of approaching problem solving,
in order to create a system that will actually work according to archival
principles.

One option to consider would be signing up for one of the

pre-conferences. Given the bac

Re: [CODE4LIB] What is a "coder"? / Coursera fork

[Wilhelmina Randtke]

MOOC study groups is a great idea. I've dropped off on the MOOCs I tried,
largely bc they cut into my social life. Social life doesn't have to be all
in person and face to face, but traditional university has a huge
social component.

Education without classmates is not going to result in the same increase in
opportunities that education with classmates will.

My first legit legal work right out of lawschool was referrals from a
classmate. He'd failed the bar. I'd passed. He was offerred to close out
cases for someone who was relocating and needed a point person in town, but
didn't have the necessary license. So, he referred the work to me.

It's hard to know which is more important: Classmates or education.

-Wilhelmina Randtke
On Dec 1, 2012 10:42 AM, "Timothy A. Lepczyk"  wrote:

> It could be cool to have like code4lib MOOC study groups. Like if there are
> people taking the same courses and they have a loose affiliation with one
> another through C4L that could be a much better starting point than
> randomly trying to meet people.
>
> *
> *
> *
>
> Timothy A. Lepczyk*
> Digital Humanities & Pedagogy Fellow
> Hendrix College
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Ross Singer 
> wrote:
>
> > I started taking the "Functional Programming in Scala" course offered a
> > couple of months ago, but it was an enormous time commitment. I had a
> > week-long trip to the office (in the UK - my job is a long and confusing
> > story) which got me so far behind (two weeks, the way the lessons ran),
> > that I would have had no hope of catching up (with, like Shaun, a
> full-time
> > job and two young children), so I had to drop out after about 3 or 4
> weeks.
> >
> > I'm sort of conflicted about this. I understand Coursera's problem:
> > courses can't be too simple, or else there's no legitimacy. But at the
> same
> > time, every course can't be a weeder course, either. I legitimately spent
> > *way* more time per week on this course than I did on *any* course in
> > college (at least not this much effort /every week/), but at the end of
> the
> > day, the amount of any practical knowledge I was gaining from the course
> > was being far overwhelmed by things I actually needed to be learning
> > immediately for my job and general obligations to my life and family.
> >
> > Maybe I just chose the wrong class, but Coursera's curriculum seems
> pretty
> > terrible for professional development. It's great, however, if you have
> > time to be a full-time student.
> >
> > -Ross.
> >
> > On Nov 30, 2012, at 4:32 PM, "Donahue, Amy"  wrote:
> >
> > > Another little quick comment, adding to the chorus of lurkers and
> people
> > who aren't sure if they're coders.  Someday I hope to get to a code4lib
> > conference (if only to tell people in person I knew Jonathan Rochkind way
> > back when), but in the meantime I've been on this list on and off (but
> > mostly on) since I graduated, and it's been nothing but a wonderful
> > resource, and a place I know I can always turn for that time when I have
> a
> > tech question.
> > >
> > > But I wanted to point out a possible resource for those of us who
> aren't
> > sure of what we know and who want to know more.  Coursera has been on my
> > radar through multiple channels, but not yet on here.  It appears they do
> > have some basic programming courses, as well as theory.  I'm curious to
> > know if anyone has taken any of these, or has any thoughts on this method
> > of learning... https://www.coursera.org/category/cs-programming
> > >
> > > Amy
> > > ---
> > > Amy Donahue, MLIS, AHIP
> > > 414.955.8326
> > > User Education/Reference Librarian
> > > Medical College of Wisconsin Libraries - Link. Learn. Lead.
> > > http://www.mcw.edu/mcwlibraries.htm
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf
> Of
> > Bess Sadler
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 12:07 PM
> > > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> > > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] What is a "coder"?
> > >
> > > On Nov 29, 2012, at 6:13 AM, Christie Peterson 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> If this were "training" in the sense of a seminar or a formal class on
> > the exact same topics, I would be eligible for full funding, but since
> it's
> > a "conference," it's funded at a significantly lower level. I'll gladly
> > take suggestions anyone has for arguments about why attendance at these
> > types of events is critical to successfully doing my work in a way that,
> > say, attending ALA isn't -- and why, therefore, they should be supported
> at
> > a higher funding rate than typical "library" conferences. Any non-coders
> > successfully made this argument before?
> > >>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >>
> > >> Christie S. Peterson
> > >
> > > Christie you are not the only person who can get travel funding for
> > training but not for conferences, and you are not the only person on the
> > fence about whether you belong in code4lib. In my

[CODE4LIB] code4lib online study group - GIS anyone?

[Bess Sadler]

There's an interesting thread going on around code4lib study groups for a given 
MOOC (or, presumably, other kinds of online training). 

I am currently attempting to educate myself in the subject of how to design, 
build, and maintain a spatial data infrastructure for a library[1]. This will 
serve out our local GIS resources, enabling them to be incorporated into online 
mapping programs. I know that this is something that many academic libraries 
are going to have to tackle eventually. Luckily there are some great open 
source tools out there for tackling this job, but unluckily there is not a lot 
of training that I have been able to find. 

I have uncovered one online course that looks pretty good: 
http://www.geospatialtraining.com/index.php?option=com_catalog&view=node&id=71%3Aopen-source-gis-bootcamp&Itemid=108

I signed up, but I haven't got very far yet. I wonder if having code4lib 
collaborators would help? If anyone else is undertaking a project like this and 
would like to form a support / study group, please let me know. 

Cheers, 
Bess

[1]We are also hiring a GIS developer: http://goo.gl/PURkZ

Re: [CODE4LIB] Beyond mentoring

[Mita Williams]

I'm sorry I have been absent from this and recent related discussions at
code4lib - but I think the conversations have been great and I appreciate
them.

++ Karen and especially on this point: "Even better will be for us to look
out for each other: "Hey, x said that ten minutes ago and you nixed it --
now that z has said the same thing it's called a "good idea." I think we
should give some credit to z."

I have had a colleague tell me on a couple of occasions that he believes
that he has received preferential treatment (as compared to myself) from
our IT Department because of gender differences. But he told me this after
the fact and privately. That's not nearly as helpful as stating the same in
public to those involved and in the moment.

I have been meaning to read Unlocking the Clubhouse for sometime now and I
think it's time I gave it a read.

Thanks everyone.


On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Karen Coyle  wrote:

> As a chronic "persister" (defined: one who persists even when not
> encouraged: thanks to Arianna for pointing to: Unlocking the Clubhouse
> http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/**47054696)
> I'm going to persist with this thread even though it hasn't gotten picked
> up in the discussion. (Although it has gotten some nice tweets. Thanks!)
>
> We started with Bess's call for an anti-harassment policy. Harassment of
> any kind is obviously not acceptable, so creating a policy and enforcing
> its intent is unquestionable. But harassment is the overt form of something
> that is mostly covert. You can have a perfectly polite society with deep
> inequalities (Victorian England, anyone?). One of the advantages of aging
> out of the category of "possibly sexually interesting" is that the overt
> form dies down considerably.[1] The covert inequality remains.
>
> The discussion here of mentoring and of deciding who gets to be in the
> code4lib community is a great start for moving beyond just preventing
> harassment. I would like to see us develop more comfort with *anyone* being
> able to say: I don't feel like I'm being treated equally. (It will probably
> not be worded that way.) Even better will be for us to look out for each
> other: "Hey, x said that ten minutes ago and you nixed it -- now that z has
> said the same thing it's called a "good idea." I think we should give some
> credit to z. [Everyone turns and nods admiringly at z.] " This is behavior
> that is encouraged in "how to be a better manager" lessons, but it's a kind
> of management that we should practice with colleagues wherever we are. Make
> sure that everyone is acknowledged for their contributions.
>
> This is much more complex than dealing with overt harassment, but it is
> what builds self-confidence and visibility for members of the community who
> may otherwise feel less accepted. It only works, however, if those who
> speak up are respected, not rejected. Speaking up definitely rocks the
> boat, and the response can be quite negative. That's what we have to to
> persist against, until both speakers and those spoken-to can be comfortable
> with this process.
>
> kc
>
> [1] http://fatuglyorslutty.com gathers grotesquely inappropriate messages
> in gaming, but I admit that I enjoy the witty rejoinders -- rather
> cathartic. I learned about this over the #1reasonwhy tsunami of posts that
> has been on Twitter the past 48 hours or so.
>
>
> On 11/28/12 2:28 PM, Karen Coyle wrote:
>
>> c4l'rs
>>
>> Obviously mentoring is a great idea, but it implies a pairing of
>> skilled/less-skilled folks and therefore makes me a bit uneasy in our
>> current context (although no one has said this) because it seems to imply
>> that if we bring up the skills of women they will be treated equally. In
>> fact, we have ample proof that this is not the case. Therefore, I want to
>> promote a concept beyond mentoring: promoting. Also known as: giving credit
>> where credit is due. Make sure that we equally acknowledge and celebrate
>> the technical achievements of women. We already have women doing great
>> geeky stuff, but it's kind of like Mitt Romney's "binder full of women" --
>> they aren't visible.
>>
>> Sounds easy, right? I think we'll all find that it's harder than it
>> sounds, but we should be making a conscious effort.
>>
>> Let me give a personal anecdote. I was doing some consulting for a large
>> organization, and we got to the point that we needed an XML schema for our
>> metadata. The organization had an uber-geek, and so the task was given to
>> him. After a considerable while (about 2 months) we started pushing for
>> this schema, and finally met with uber-geek who said some strange things
>> about some theory of XML, and essentially we intuited that he didn't know
>> XML schema, was taking a strange path in terms of learning it, and it was
>> clear we wouldn't be getting our schema from him. I went home and wrote the
>> schema (thank you O'Reilly!). Now, you might think that I would have earned
>>