Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
As a side note to this, the communication issue is not unique between catalogers and coders. It is a common discussion topic (librarians vs. IT; emerging technology librarians vs. library coders; even web designers vs. web developers). I hear about this a lot in library conferences. But of course, discussion there is mostly from the librarians' point of view. Since code4lib is unique in that many library coders get together, it would be good to hear the thoughts on this from the coders' point of view as well. ~Bohyun -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Kelley McGrath Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:19 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains I am not by any stretch of the imagination a coder, but I think it would be helpful to have some discussion of common cataloger-coder communication issues. So many cataloger-coder discussions online seem to consist of people talking past each other (although I do think there is a much larger and less vocal common ground in the middle). In addition, I have sometimes seen my cataloger and coder/IT colleagues struggle to communicate with each other and find myself trying to translate. Are there ways to make that translation process easier or cultivate more translators? What do coders wish that catalogers knew about how computers interact with metadata? I would also be interested in ideas on how to shift the conversation more towards underlying functionality. A central failing of computerized catalogs IMO is that they tend to replicate the literal form and actions of cards and the card catalog rather than tried to find a way to express the underlying functionality of the card catalog in a computer environment. This is also sometimes badly done because the programmers don't understand the point of what they're replicating (although to be fair, what they're trying to work with is often not in a form optimized for a computer environment). Uniform titles in many catalogs are a good example of this. Kelley PS Some of the other emails mention wanting help with understanding where real data differs from what's in specifications or differs over time or for other reasons. Speaking as a reasonably competent cataloger, I would say that, although some things can be anticipated in advance, I find this to inevitably be an iterative process. PPS I'm looking forward to attending. On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Becky Yoose b.yo...@gmail.com wrote: Hey folks, There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts. We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you help us in letting us know: - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation? - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want covered? This information will help us greatly in how we structure the pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs. Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as possible given what our group has brainstormed so far. Thanks for reading, Becky Official cat[aloger] herder --- Becky Yoose Systems Librarian Grinnell College Libraries yoose...@grinnell.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
to account for. I have no idea how a computer would know whether ill. ought to map to illustration or illustrations in most cases since the distinction was not recorded. Perhaps illustration(s) would work. That doesn't even start to address mistakes in data, allowing for older rules (AACR1's illus.), non-English language records or local practices that go against the rules. All this is not to say that there isn't a real need here. Their ought to be a way to both minimize the amount of typing that catalogers have to do while at the same time provide full, unambiguous displays for users. So what I wish is that there were some way to get more catalogers to see that despite Watson, there are serious limitations to what computers can practically do and that we would be better off if we worked with computer's strengths instead of trying to make them do things that are hard for them to do so we can reproduce the form of the card catalog (as opposed to the function). Kelley On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 8:26 AM, Bohyun Kim k...@fiu.edu wrote: As a side note to this, the communication issue is not unique between catalogers and coders. It is a common discussion topic (librarians vs. IT; emerging technology librarians vs. library coders; even web designers vs. web developers). I hear about this a lot in library conferences. But of course, discussion there is mostly from the librarians' point of view. Since code4lib is unique in that many library coders get together, it would be good to hear the thoughts on this from the coders' point of view as well. ~Bohyun -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Kelley McGrath Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:19 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains I am not by any stretch of the imagination a coder, but I think it would be helpful to have some discussion of common cataloger-coder communication issues. So many cataloger-coder discussions online seem to consist of people talking past each other (although I do think there is a much larger and less vocal common ground in the middle). In addition, I have sometimes seen my cataloger and coder/IT colleagues struggle to communicate with each other and find myself trying to translate. Are there ways to make that translation process easier or cultivate more translators? What do coders wish that catalogers knew about how computers interact with metadata? I would also be interested in ideas on how to shift the conversation more towards underlying functionality. A central failing of computerized catalogs IMO is that they tend to replicate the literal form and actions of cards and the card catalog rather than tried to find a way to express the underlying functionality of the card catalog in a computer environment. This is also sometimes badly done because the programmers don't understand the point of what they're replicating (although to be fair, what they're trying to work with is often not in a form optimized for a computer environment). Uniform titles in many catalogs are a good example of this. Kelley PS Some of the other emails mention wanting help with understanding where real data differs from what's in specifications or differs over time or for other reasons. Speaking as a reasonably competent cataloger, I would say that, although some things can be anticipated in advance, I find this to inevitably be an iterative process. PPS I'm looking forward to attending. On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Becky Yoose b.yo...@gmail.com wrote: Hey folks, There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts. We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you help us in letting us know: - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation? - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want covered? This information will help us greatly in how we structure the pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs. Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as possible given what our group has brainstormed so far. Thanks for reading
Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
I am not by any stretch of the imagination a coder, but I think it would be helpful to have some discussion of common cataloger-coder communication issues. So many cataloger-coder discussions online seem to consist of people talking past each other (although I do think there is a much larger and less vocal common ground in the middle). In addition, I have sometimes seen my cataloger and coder/IT colleagues struggle to communicate with each other and find myself trying to translate. Are there ways to make that translation process easier or cultivate more translators? What do coders wish that catalogers knew about how computers interact with metadata? I would also be interested in ideas on how to shift the conversation more towards underlying functionality. A central failing of computerized catalogs IMO is that they tend to replicate the literal form and actions of cards and the card catalog rather than tried to find a way to express the underlying functionality of the card catalog in a computer environment. This is also sometimes badly done because the programmers don't understand the point of what they're replicating (although to be fair, what they're trying to work with is often not in a form optimized for a computer environment). Uniform titles in many catalogs are a good example of this. Kelley PS Some of the other emails mention wanting help with understanding where real data differs from what's in specifications or differs over time or for other reasons. Speaking as a reasonably competent cataloger, I would say that, although some things can be anticipated in advance, I find this to inevitably be an iterative process. PPS I'm looking forward to attending. On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Becky Yoose b.yo...@gmail.com wrote: Hey folks, There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts. We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you help us in letting us know: - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation? - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want covered? This information will help us greatly in how we structure the pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs. Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as possible given what our group has brainstormed so far. Thanks for reading, Becky Official cat[aloger] herder --- Becky Yoose Systems Librarian Grinnell College Libraries yoose...@grinnell.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
Kyle Banerjee wrote: I think it would be worthwhile discussing what you can/cannot count on as well as the reliability of certain data points. There is a natural tendency among noncatalogers to rely on specifications for figuring out what data will be where. However, some fields that may seem perfect for an application may not be used at all, certain types of data might appear in any one of multiple fields, and other types might not be used as expected. Incorrect assumptions about what metadata contains and its reliability will lead to trouble every time. It might also be worth making some broad remarks on what you can reasonably expect to accomplish with records encoded to certain major major standards as well as their limitations and what you lose when you crosswalk from one standard to another. Kyle++ Along similar lines: Really knowledgeable catalogers who are familiar with what's happened in cataloging over the past few decades seem (at least, to coders) to be very good at interpreting records that vary from current standards/practices; their knowledge of past standards, past practices, past events, and even regional differences gives them a good basis for interpretation and a well-developed intuition. Even if they don't know off hand why a particular piece of data is expressed a particular way in a particular record, they often have an idea about where to look. Non-catalogers, on the other hand, are generally just flummoxed by data that doesn't appear to follow the spec. Without the requisite background knowledge, there's no way for us to tell cataloging mistakes from meaningful non-spec data, and there's no way for us to intuit the meaning of non-spec data. So, I'd be interested in hearing: what are some of the canonical events in recent cataloging history that help explain the most common patterns we're likely to run across in the wild? Events might refer to a number of things. Maybe official changes in standards; maybe widespread changes in practice; maybe a vendor screwing up a big-time data load and affecting millions of records in some nonstandard way, where catalogers had no choice but just to deal with it. Patterns might also refer to a number of things. In addition to actual patterns we might find in the data, maybe sets of standards that tend to go hand-in-hand, like MARC21/AACR2, and maybe common deviations from these standards. What are the versions of AACR2 and what are the telltale signs of each version that we'd find in the data? What other cataloging standards are commonly used with MARC21 and what do they look like? How do we know them when we see them? How have catalogers been instructed to handle data that! is non-standard or follows an out-of-date standard when they come across it, and how does that factor into what we end up seeing in records? Jason
Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
So, I'd be interested in hearing: what are some of the canonical events in recent cataloging history that help explain the most common patterns we're likely to run across in the wild? Events might refer to a number of things. Maybe official changes in standards; maybe widespread changes in practice; maybe a vendor screwing up a big-time data load and affecting millions of records in some nonstandard way, where catalogers had no choice but just to deal with it. Patterns might also refer to a number of things. In addition to actual patterns we might find in the data, maybe sets of standards that tend to go hand-in-hand, like MARC21/AACR2, and maybe common deviations from these standards. This. Also, what types of questions you need to ask and what background you want to look for in people you intend to consult with for specific projects. If you're not careful, it's really easy to build something based on local but totally kosher practices that might not meet the needs at hand. kyle -- -- Kyle Banerjee Digital Services Program Manager Orbis Cascade Alliance baner...@uoregon.edu / 503.877.9773
Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
I think it would be worthwhile discussing what you can/cannot count on as well as the reliability of certain data points. There is a natural tendency among noncatalogers to rely on specifications for figuring out what data will be where. However, some fields that may seem perfect for an application may not be used at all, certain types of data might appear in any one of multiple fields, and other types might not be used as expected. Incorrect assumptions about what metadata contains and its reliability will lead to trouble every time. It might also be worth making some broad remarks on what you can reasonably expect to accomplish with records encoded to certain major major standards as well as their limitations and what you lose when you crosswalk from one standard to another. kyle On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Becky Yoose b.yo...@gmail.com wrote: Hey folks, There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts. We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you help us in letting us know: - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation? - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want covered? This information will help us greatly in how we structure the pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs. Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as possible given what our group has brainstormed so far. Thanks for reading, Becky Official cat[aloger] herder --- Becky Yoose Systems Librarian Grinnell College Libraries yoose...@grinnell.edu -- -- Kyle Banerjee Digital Services Program Manager Orbis Cascade Alliance baner...@uoregon.edu / 503.877.9773
Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
R Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Becky Yoose b.yo...@gmail.com wrote: Hey folks, There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts. We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you help us in letting us know: - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation? - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want covered? This information will help us greatly in how we structure the pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs. Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as possible given what our group has brainstormed so far. Thanks for reading, Becky Official cat[aloger] herder --- Becky Yoose Systems Librarian Grinnell College Libraries yoose...@grinnell.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
Hi Becky, Is this pre-conference going to be cataloging/metadata training for coders? Thanks, Chris Christine Schwartz Metadata Librarian Princeton Theological Seminary Library From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Becky Yoose Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:14 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains Hey folks, There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts. We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you help us in letting us know: - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation? - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want covered? This information will help us greatly in how we structure the pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs. Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as possible given what our group has brainstormed so far. Thanks for reading, Becky Official cat[aloger] herder --- Becky Yoose Systems Librarian Grinnell College Libraries yoose...@grinnell.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
I work as the metadata wrangler for CollectiveAccesshttp://collectiveaccess.org/, and will soon be the metadata/catalog librarian at University of Vermont. I think a forum/workshop on open source software and code would be really helpful. In my experience, many folks don't totally understand open source software and how to manage it once they adopt it. also, a workshop on metadata project management would be useful. -Amber On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Christine Schwartz catalogingfutu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Becky, Is this pre-conference going to be cataloging/metadata training for coders? Thanks, Chris Christine Schwartz Metadata Librarian Princeton Theological Seminary Library From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Becky Yoose Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:14 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains Hey folks, There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts. We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you help us in letting us know: - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation? - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want covered? This information will help us greatly in how we structure the pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs. Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as possible given what our group has brainstormed so far. Thanks for reading, Becky Official cat[aloger] herder --- Becky Yoose Systems Librarian Grinnell College Libraries yoose...@grinnell.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
As a co-conspirator let me jump in here. In answer to Christine's question - yes. This is cataloging for non-catalogers - specifically geared to coders. Hence the subject line Cataloging4Coders (grin). I think people are somehow misunderstanding Becky's request for input. The idea is to further understanding of cataloger culture and cataloging concepts rather than teach how to do descriptive cataloging in x standard. That would take way more than a half-day or one-day workshop. Plus there are already tons of great courses out there by SAA, ALCTS, SCTP, etc. I point the people interested in EAD in that direction for training. This CODE4LIB preconference would help coders deal with the metadata they've got. It's an explanation of why library metadata is the way it is rather than a how-to roll your own. The existing knowledge and skills of those wanting to attend will determine how detailed we get. We're are trying to get a sense of the background knowledge of potential attendees and the specific problems they encounter. Most definitely we also need a coding-for-catalogers session, but this isn't it. Laura -- Laura Smart Metadata Services Manager Caltech Library On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Christine Schwartz catalogingfutu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Becky, Is this pre-conference going to be cataloging/metadata training for coders? Thanks, Chris Christine Schwartz Metadata Librarian Princeton Theological Seminary Library From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Becky Yoose Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:14 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains Hey folks, There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts. We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you help us in letting us know: - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation? - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want covered? This information will help us greatly in how we structure the pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs. Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as possible given what our group has brainstormed so far. Thanks for reading, Becky Official cat[aloger] herder --- Becky Yoose Systems Librarian Grinnell College Libraries yoose...@grinnell.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
Most definitely we also need a coding-for-catalogers session, but this isn't it. Will there be one? Elisa -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Laura Smart Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 12:58 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains As a co-conspirator let me jump in here. In answer to Christine's question - yes. This is cataloging for non-catalogers - specifically geared to coders. Hence the subject line Cataloging4Coders (grin). I think people are somehow misunderstanding Becky's request for input. The idea is to further understanding of cataloger culture and cataloging concepts rather than teach how to do descriptive cataloging in x standard. That would take way more than a half-day or one-day workshop. Plus there are already tons of great courses out there by SAA, ALCTS, SCTP, etc. I point the people interested in EAD in that direction for training. This CODE4LIB preconference would help coders deal with the metadata they've got. It's an explanation of why library metadata is the way it is rather than a how-to roll your own. The existing knowledge and skills of those wanting to attend will determine how detailed we get. We're are trying to get a sense of the background knowledge of potential attendees and the specific problems they encounter. Most definitely we also need a coding-for-catalogers session, but this isn't it. Laura -- Laura Smart Metadata Services Manager Caltech Library On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Christine Schwartz catalogingfutu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Becky, Is this pre-conference going to be cataloging/metadata training for coders? Thanks, Chris Christine Schwartz Metadata Librarian Princeton Theological Seminary Library From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Becky Yoose Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:14 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains Hey folks, There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts. We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you help us in letting us know: - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation? - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want covered? This information will help us greatly in how we structure the pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs. Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as possible given what our group has brainstormed so far. Thanks for reading, Becky Official cat[aloger] herder --- Becky Yoose Systems Librarian Grinnell College Libraries yoose...@grinnell.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Elisa Graydon egray...@moore.edu wrote: Most definitely we also need a coding-for-catalogers session, but this isn't it. Will there be one? Elisa If someone organizes one, then yes.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
Thanks for posting, Laura. I sent an email to the list last night clarifying things, but it seems that the listserv ate my email. I'm hoping that the listserv software gets indigestion from it. :cP One thing that I do want to mention: Re: help - while we have a small army working away, if you want to help pitch in with planning, you are more than welcome to do so. Perhaps someone can plan a coding4catalogers session, either here or at another conference... there was some talk about doing a cataloging unconference at ALA some time ago. Thanks again, Becky On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:57:30 -0800, Laura Smart laura.j.sm...@gmail.com wrote: As a co-conspirator let me jump in here. In answer to Christine's question - yes. This is cataloging for non-catalogers - specifically geared to coders. Hence the subject line Cataloging4Coders (grin). I think people are somehow misunderstanding Becky's request for input. The idea is to further understanding of cataloger culture and cataloging concepts rather than teach how to do descriptive cataloging in x standard. That would take way more than a half-day or one-day workshop. Plus there are already tons of great courses out there by SAA, ALCTS, SCTP, etc. I point the people interested in EAD in that direction for training. This CODE4LIB preconference would help coders deal with the metadata they've got. It's an explanation of why library metadata is the way it is rather than a how-to roll your own. The existing knowledge and skills of those wanting to attend will determine how detailed we get. We're are trying to get a sense of the background knowledge of potential attendees and the specific problems they encounter. Most definitely we also need a coding-for-catalogers session, but this isn't it. Laura -- Laura Smart Metadata Services Manager Caltech Library On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Christine Schwartz catalogingfutu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Becky, Is this pre-conference going to be cataloging/metadata training for coders? Thanks, Chris Christine Schwartz Metadata Librarian Princeton Theological Seminary Library From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Becky Yoose Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:14 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains Hey folks, There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts. We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you help us in letting us know: - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation? - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want covered? This information will help us greatly in how we structure the pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs. Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as possible given what our group has brainstormed so far. Thanks for reading, Becky Official cat[aloger] herder --- Becky Yoose Systems Librarian Grinnell College Libraries yoose...@grinnell.edu
[CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
Hey folks, There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts. We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you help us in letting us know: - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation? - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want covered? This information will help us greatly in how we structure the pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs. Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as possible given what our group has brainstormed so far. Thanks for reading, Becky Official cat[aloger] herder --- Becky Yoose Systems Librarian Grinnell College Libraries yoose...@grinnell.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
I am currently learning how to do EAD coding through the Northwest Digital Archives. I'd attend a session on EAD and/or DACS. Thanks, Doris Doris Munson Systems/Reference Librarian Eastern Washington University dmun...@ewu.edu 509-359-6395 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Becky Yoose Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:14 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains Hey folks, There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts. We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you help us in letting us know: - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation? - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want covered? This information will help us greatly in how we structure the pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs. Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as possible given what our group has brainstormed so far. Thanks for reading, Becky Official cat[aloger] herder --- Becky Yoose Systems Librarian Grinnell College Libraries yoose...@grinnell.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
I second that. I would attend a session on either of these! Elisa Graydon, MLS Cataloging and Metadata Librarian Moore College of Art Design Connelly Library 20th and the Parkway Philadelphia, PA 19103 email: egray...@moore.edu phone: 215-965-4055 fax: 215-965-8544 From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Munson, Doris [dmun...@ewu.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:39 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains I am currently learning how to do EAD coding through the Northwest Digital Archives. I'd attend a session on EAD and/or DACS. Thanks, Doris Doris Munson Systems/Reference Librarian Eastern Washington University dmun...@ewu.edu 509-359-6395 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Becky Yoose Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:14 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains Hey folks, There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts. We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you help us in letting us know: - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation? - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want covered? This information will help us greatly in how we structure the pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs. Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as possible given what our group has brainstormed so far. Thanks for reading, Becky Official cat[aloger] herder --- Becky Yoose Systems Librarian Grinnell College Libraries yoose...@grinnell.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
We're currently working on digitizing finding aids that were done using a typewriter in the 1970's and 80's. If someone can't lead a session, perhaps we can have a session where we bring things we're digitizing using EAD and DACS for participants to look at and comment on the contents of different fields. It would be a great learning experience -- and hopefully not the blind leading the blind! Doris -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Elisa Graydon Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:54 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains I second that. I would attend a session on either of these! Elisa Graydon, MLS Cataloging and Metadata Librarian Moore College of Art Design Connelly Library 20th and the Parkway Philadelphia, PA 19103 email: egray...@moore.edu phone: 215-965-4055 fax: 215-965-8544 From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Munson, Doris [dmun...@ewu.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:39 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains I am currently learning how to do EAD coding through the Northwest Digital Archives. I'd attend a session on EAD and/or DACS. Thanks, Doris Doris Munson Systems/Reference Librarian Eastern Washington University dmun...@ewu.edu 509-359-6395 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Becky Yoose Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:14 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains Hey folks, There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts. We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you help us in letting us know: - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation? - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want covered? This information will help us greatly in how we structure the pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs. Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as possible given what our group has brainstormed so far. Thanks for reading, Becky Official cat[aloger] herder --- Becky Yoose Systems Librarian Grinnell College Libraries yoose...@grinnell.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
Are you also looking for help from catalogers? I'm uncertain at this point if I'll be able to attend c4l12, but that might just possibly change if I'm helping. Linda --- Linda Ballinger Principal Cataloging Librarian Newberry Library Chicago, IL balling...@newberry.org
