Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[Munson, Doris]

I am currently learning how to do EAD coding through the Northwest Digital 
Archives.  I'd attend a session on EAD and/or DACS.

Thanks,
Doris

Doris Munson
Systems/Reference Librarian
Eastern Washington University
dmun...@ewu.edu
509-359-6395



-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Becky 
Yoose
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:14 AM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

Hey folks,

There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around
this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some
co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on
cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib
masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this
Darkest of Library Arts.

We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a
wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we
want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the
pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you
help us in letting us know:

- What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation?
- What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want
covered?

This information will help us greatly in how we structure the
pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a
half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners
and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day
preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs.

Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as
possible given what our group has brainstormed so far.

Thanks for reading,
Becky
Official cat[aloger] herder


---
Becky Yoose
Systems Librarian
Grinnell College Libraries
yoose...@grinnell.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[Elisa Graydon]

I second that. I would attend a session on either of these! 

Elisa Graydon, MLS
Cataloging and Metadata Librarian
Moore College of Art & Design
Connelly Library
20th and the Parkway
Philadelphia, PA 19103

email: egray...@moore.edu
phone: 215-965-4055
fax: 215-965-8544


From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Munson, Doris 
[dmun...@ewu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:39 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

I am currently learning how to do EAD coding through the Northwest Digital 
Archives.  I'd attend a session on EAD and/or DACS.

Thanks,
Doris

Doris Munson
Systems/Reference Librarian
Eastern Washington University
dmun...@ewu.edu
509-359-6395



-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Becky 
Yoose
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:14 AM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

Hey folks,

There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around
this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some
co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on
cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib
masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this
Darkest of Library Arts.

We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a
wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we
want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the
pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you
help us in letting us know:

- What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation?
- What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want
covered?

This information will help us greatly in how we structure the
pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a
half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners
and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day
preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs.

Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as
possible given what our group has brainstormed so far.

Thanks for reading,
Becky
Official cat[aloger] herder


---
Becky Yoose
Systems Librarian
Grinnell College Libraries
yoose...@grinnell.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[Munson, Doris]

We're currently working on digitizing finding aids that were done using a 
typewriter in the 1970's and 80's.  If someone can't lead a session, perhaps we 
can have a session where we bring things we're digitizing using EAD and DACS 
for participants to look at and comment on the contents of different fields.  
It would be a great learning experience -- and hopefully not the blind leading 
the blind!

Doris

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Elisa 
Graydon
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:54 AM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

I second that. I would attend a session on either of these! 

Elisa Graydon, MLS
Cataloging and Metadata Librarian
Moore College of Art & Design
Connelly Library
20th and the Parkway
Philadelphia, PA 19103

email: egray...@moore.edu
phone: 215-965-4055
fax: 215-965-8544


From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Munson, Doris 
[dmun...@ewu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:39 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

I am currently learning how to do EAD coding through the Northwest Digital 
Archives.  I'd attend a session on EAD and/or DACS.

Thanks,
Doris

Doris Munson
Systems/Reference Librarian
Eastern Washington University
dmun...@ewu.edu
509-359-6395



-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Becky 
Yoose
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:14 AM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

Hey folks,

There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around
this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some
co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on
cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib
masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this
Darkest of Library Arts.

We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a
wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we
want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the
pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you
help us in letting us know:

- What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation?
- What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want
covered?

This information will help us greatly in how we structure the
pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a
half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners
and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day
preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs.

Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as
possible given what our group has brainstormed so far.

Thanks for reading,
Becky
Official cat[aloger] herder


---
Becky Yoose
Systems Librarian
Grinnell College Libraries
yoose...@grinnell.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[Linda Ballinger]

Are you also looking for help from catalogers? I'm uncertain at this
point if I'll be able to attend c4l12, but that might just possibly
change if I'm helping.

Linda
---
Linda Ballinger
Principal Cataloging Librarian
Newberry Library
Chicago, IL
balling...@newberry.org

Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[Christine Schwartz]

Hi Becky,

Is this pre-conference going to be cataloging/metadata training for coders?

Thanks,

Chris

Christine Schwartz
Metadata Librarian
Princeton Theological Seminary Library

> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Becky 
> Yoose
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
>
> Hey folks,
>
> There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around
> this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some
> co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on
> cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib
> masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this
> Darkest of Library Arts.
>
> We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a
> wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we
> want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the
> pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you
> help us in letting us know:
>
> - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation?
> - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want
> covered?
>
> This information will help us greatly in how we structure the
> pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a
> half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners
> and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day
> preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs.
>
> Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as
> possible given what our group has brainstormed so far.
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Becky
> Official cat[aloger] herder
>
>
> ---
> Becky Yoose
> Systems Librarian
> Grinnell College Libraries
> yoose...@grinnell.edu
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[a. billey]

I work as the metadata wrangler for
CollectiveAccess,
and will soon be the metadata/catalog librarian at University of Vermont.

I think a forum/workshop on open source software and code would be really
helpful. In my experience, many folks don't totally understand open source
software and how to manage it once they adopt it.

also, a workshop on metadata project management would be useful.

-Amber

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Christine Schwartz <
catalogingfutu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Becky,
>
> Is this pre-conference going to be cataloging/metadata training for coders?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
> Christine Schwartz
> Metadata Librarian
> Princeton Theological Seminary Library
>
> > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Becky Yoose
> > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:14 AM
> > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> > Subject: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
> >
> > Hey folks,
> >
> > There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around
> > this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some
> > co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on
> > cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib
> > masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this
> > Darkest of Library Arts.
> >
> > We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a
> > wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and
> we
> > want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the
> > pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you
> > help us in letting us know:
> >
> > - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation?
> > - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want
> > covered?
> >
> > This information will help us greatly in how we structure the
> > pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a
> > half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners
> > and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day
> > preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs.
> >
> > Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as
> > possible given what our group has brainstormed so far.
> >
> > Thanks for reading,
> > Becky
> > Official cat[aloger] herder
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Becky Yoose
> > Systems Librarian
> > Grinnell College Libraries
> > yoose...@grinnell.edu
> >
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[Laura Smart]

As a co-conspirator let me jump in here. In answer to Christine's
question - yes.  This is cataloging for non-catalogers - specifically
geared to coders. Hence the subject line "Cataloging4Coders" (grin).
I think people are somehow misunderstanding Becky's request for input.

The idea is to further understanding of cataloger culture and
cataloging concepts rather than teach "how to do descriptive
cataloging in x standard."  That would take way more than a half-day
or one-day workshop.  Plus there are already tons of great courses out
there by SAA, ALCTS, SCTP, etc.   I point the people interested in EAD
in that direction for training.

This CODE4LIB preconference would help coders deal with the metadata
they've got.  It's an explanation of why library metadata is the way
it is rather than a how-to roll your own.  The existing knowledge and
skills of those wanting to attend will determine how detailed we get.
 We're are trying to get a sense of the background knowledge of
potential attendees and the specific problems they encounter.

Most definitely we also need a coding-for-catalogers session, but this
isn't it.
Laura

--
Laura Smart
Metadata Services Manager
Caltech Library

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Christine Schwartz
 wrote:
> Hi Becky,
>
> Is this pre-conference going to be cataloging/metadata training for coders?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
> Christine Schwartz
> Metadata Librarian
> Princeton Theological Seminary Library
>
>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of 
>> Becky Yoose
>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:14 AM
>> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
>> Subject: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
>>
>> Hey folks,
>>
>> There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around
>> this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some
>> co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on
>> cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib
>> masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this
>> Darkest of Library Arts.
>>
>> We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a
>> wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we
>> want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the
>> pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you
>> help us in letting us know:
>>
>> - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation?
>> - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want
>> covered?
>>
>> This information will help us greatly in how we structure the
>> pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a
>> half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners
>> and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day
>> preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs.
>>
>> Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as
>> possible given what our group has brainstormed so far.
>>
>> Thanks for reading,
>> Becky
>> Official cat[aloger] herder
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Becky Yoose
>> Systems Librarian
>> Grinnell College Libraries
>> yoose...@grinnell.edu
>>
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[Elisa Graydon]

"Most definitely we also need a coding-for-catalogers session, but this isn't 
it."

Will there be one?

Elisa

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Laura 
Smart
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 12:58 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

As a co-conspirator let me jump in here. In answer to Christine's
question - yes.  This is cataloging for non-catalogers - specifically
geared to coders. Hence the subject line "Cataloging4Coders" (grin).
I think people are somehow misunderstanding Becky's request for input.

The idea is to further understanding of cataloger culture and
cataloging concepts rather than teach "how to do descriptive
cataloging in x standard."  That would take way more than a half-day
or one-day workshop.  Plus there are already tons of great courses out
there by SAA, ALCTS, SCTP, etc.   I point the people interested in EAD
in that direction for training.

This CODE4LIB preconference would help coders deal with the metadata
they've got.  It's an explanation of why library metadata is the way
it is rather than a how-to roll your own.  The existing knowledge and
skills of those wanting to attend will determine how detailed we get.
 We're are trying to get a sense of the background knowledge of
potential attendees and the specific problems they encounter.

Most definitely we also need a coding-for-catalogers session, but this
isn't it.
Laura

--
Laura Smart
Metadata Services Manager
Caltech Library

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Christine Schwartz
 wrote:
> Hi Becky,
>
> Is this pre-conference going to be cataloging/metadata training for coders?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
> Christine Schwartz
> Metadata Librarian
> Princeton Theological Seminary Library
>
>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of 
>> Becky Yoose
>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:14 AM
>> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
>> Subject: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
>>
>> Hey folks,
>>
>> There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around
>> this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some
>> co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on
>> cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib
>> masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this
>> Darkest of Library Arts.
>>
>> We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a
>> wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we
>> want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the
>> pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you
>> help us in letting us know:
>>
>> - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation?
>> - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want
>> covered?
>>
>> This information will help us greatly in how we structure the
>> pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a
>> half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners
>> and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day
>> preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs.
>>
>> Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as
>> possible given what our group has brainstormed so far.
>>
>> Thanks for reading,
>> Becky
>> Official cat[aloger] herder
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Becky Yoose
>> Systems Librarian
>> Grinnell College Libraries
>> yoose...@grinnell.edu
>>
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[Mark A. Matienzo]

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Elisa Graydon  wrote:
> "Most definitely we also need a coding-for-catalogers session, but this isn't 
> it."
>
> Will there be one?
>
> Elisa

If someone organizes one, then yes.

Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[[Becky Yoose]]

Thanks for posting, Laura. I sent an email to the list last night clarifying
things, but it seems that the listserv ate my email. I'm hoping that the
listserv software gets indigestion from it. :cP

One thing that I do want to mention: Re: help - while we have a small army
working away, if you want to help pitch in with planning, you are more than
welcome to do so.

Perhaps someone can plan a "coding4catalogers" session, either here or at
another conference... there was some talk about doing a cataloging
unconference at ALA some time ago. 

Thanks again,
Becky

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:57:30 -0800, Laura Smart  wrote:

>As a co-conspirator let me jump in here. In answer to Christine's
>question - yes.  This is cataloging for non-catalogers - specifically
>geared to coders. Hence the subject line "Cataloging4Coders" (grin).
>I think people are somehow misunderstanding Becky's request for input.
>
>The idea is to further understanding of cataloger culture and
>cataloging concepts rather than teach "how to do descriptive
>cataloging in x standard."  That would take way more than a half-day
>or one-day workshop.  Plus there are already tons of great courses out
>there by SAA, ALCTS, SCTP, etc.   I point the people interested in EAD
>in that direction for training.
>
>This CODE4LIB preconference would help coders deal with the metadata
>they've got.  It's an explanation of why library metadata is the way
>it is rather than a how-to roll your own.  The existing knowledge and
>skills of those wanting to attend will determine how detailed we get.
> We're are trying to get a sense of the background knowledge of
>potential attendees and the specific problems they encounter.
>
>Most definitely we also need a coding-for-catalogers session, but this
>isn't it.
>Laura
>
>--
>Laura Smart
>Metadata Services Manager
>Caltech Library
>
>On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Christine Schwartz
> wrote:
>> Hi Becky,
>>
>> Is this pre-conference going to be cataloging/metadata training for coders?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Christine Schwartz
>> Metadata Librarian
>> Princeton Theological Seminary Library
>>
>>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of
Becky Yoose
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:14 AM
>>> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
>>> Subject: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains
>>>
>>> Hey folks,
>>>
>>> There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around
>>> this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some
>>> co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on
>>> cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib
>>> masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this
>>> Darkest of Library Arts.
>>>
>>> We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a
>>> wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we
>>> want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the
>>> pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you
>>> help us in letting us know:
>>>
>>> - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation?
>>> - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want
>>> covered?
>>>
>>> This information will help us greatly in how we structure the
>>> pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a
>>> half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners
>>> and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day
>>> preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs.
>>>
>>> Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as
>>> possible given what our group has brainstormed so far.
>>>
>>> Thanks for reading,
>>> Becky
>>> Official cat[aloger] herder
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Becky Yoose
>>> Systems Librarian
>>> Grinnell College Libraries
>>> yoose...@grinnell.edu
>>>
>>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[Kyle Banerjee]

I think it would be worthwhile discussing what you can/cannot count on as
well as the reliability of certain data points.

There is a natural tendency among noncatalogers to rely on specifications
for figuring out what data will be where. However, some fields that may
seem perfect for an application may not be used at all, certain types of
data might appear in any one of multiple fields, and other types might not
be used as expected. Incorrect assumptions about what metadata contains and
its reliability will lead to trouble every time.

It might also be worth making some broad remarks on what you can reasonably
expect to accomplish with records encoded to certain major major standards
as well as their limitations and what you lose when you crosswalk from one
standard to another.

kyle

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Becky Yoose  wrote:

> Hey folks,
>
> There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around
> this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some
> co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on
> cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib
> masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this
> Darkest of Library Arts.
>
> We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a
> wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we
> want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the
> pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you
> help us in letting us know:
>
> - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation?
> - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want
> covered?
>
> This information will help us greatly in how we structure the
> pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a
> half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners
> and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day
> preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs.
>
> Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as
> possible given what our group has brainstormed so far.
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Becky
> Official cat[aloger] herder
>
>
> ---
> Becky Yoose
> Systems Librarian
> Grinnell College Libraries
> yoose...@grinnell.edu
>



-- 
--
Kyle Banerjee
Digital Services Program Manager
Orbis Cascade Alliance
baner...@uoregon.edu / 503.877.9773

Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[Norman, Michael A]

R

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 10, 2011, at 1:15 PM, "Becky Yoose"  wrote:

> Hey folks,
> 
> There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging around
> this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found some
> co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference on
> cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled code4lib
> masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for knowledge of this
> Darkest of Library Arts.
> 
> We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's a
> wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, and we
> want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the
> pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can you
> help us in letting us know:
> 
> - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation?
> - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you want
> covered?
> 
> This information will help us greatly in how we structure the
> pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a
> half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between beginners
> and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two half-day
> preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs.
> 
> Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best as
> possible given what our group has brainstormed so far.
> 
> Thanks for reading,
> Becky
> Official cat[aloger] herder
> 
> 
> ---
> Becky Yoose
> Systems Librarian
> Grinnell College Libraries
> yoose...@grinnell.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[Thomale, Jason]

Kyle Banerjee wrote:
> I think it would be worthwhile discussing what you can/cannot count on as
> well as the reliability of certain data points.
> 
> There is a natural tendency among noncatalogers to rely on specifications
> for figuring out what data will be where. However, some fields that may
> seem perfect for an application may not be used at all, certain types of
> data might appear in any one of multiple fields, and other types might not
> be used as expected. Incorrect assumptions about what metadata contains
> and its reliability will lead to trouble every time.
> 
> It might also be worth making some broad remarks on what you can reasonably
> expect to accomplish with records encoded to certain major major standards
> as well as their limitations and what you lose when you crosswalk from one
> standard to another.

Kyle++

Along similar lines: Really knowledgeable catalogers who are familiar with 
what's happened in cataloging over the past few decades seem (at least, to 
coders) to be very good at interpreting records that vary from current 
standards/practices; their knowledge of past standards, past practices, past 
events, and even regional differences gives them a good basis for 
interpretation and a well-developed intuition. Even if they don't know off hand 
why a particular piece of data is expressed a particular way in a particular 
record, they often have an idea about where to look. Non-catalogers, on the 
other hand, are generally just flummoxed by data that doesn't appear to follow 
the spec. Without the requisite background knowledge, there's no way for us to 
tell cataloging mistakes from meaningful non-spec data, and there's no way for 
us to intuit the meaning of non-spec data.

So, I'd be interested in hearing: what are some of the canonical events in 
recent cataloging history that help explain the most common patterns we're 
likely to run across in the wild? "Events" might refer to a number of things. 
Maybe official changes in standards; maybe widespread changes in practice; 
maybe a vendor screwing up a big-time data load and affecting millions of 
records in some nonstandard way, where catalogers had no choice but just to 
deal with it. "Patterns" might also refer to a number of things. In addition to 
actual patterns we might find in the data, maybe sets of standards that tend to 
go hand-in-hand, like MARC21/AACR2, and maybe common deviations from these 
standards. What are the versions of AACR2 and what are the telltale signs of 
each version that we'd find in the data? What other cataloging standards are 
commonly used with MARC21 and what do they look like? How do we know them when 
we see them? How have catalogers been instructed to handle data that!
  is non-standard or follows an out-of-date standard when they come across it, 
and how does that factor into what we end up seeing in records?

Jason

Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[Kyle Banerjee]

> So, I'd be interested in hearing: what are some of the canonical events in
> recent cataloging history that help explain the most common patterns we're
> likely to run across in the wild? "Events" might refer to a number of
> things. Maybe official changes in standards; maybe widespread changes in
> practice; maybe a vendor screwing up a big-time data load and affecting
> millions of records in some nonstandard way, where catalogers had no choice
> but just to deal with it. "Patterns" might also refer to a number of
> things. In addition to actual patterns we might find in the data, maybe
> sets of standards that tend to go hand-in-hand, like MARC21/AACR2, and
> maybe common deviations from these standards.


This.

Also, what types of questions you need to ask and what background you want
to look for in people you intend to consult with for specific projects. If
you're not careful, it's really easy to build something based on local but
totally kosher practices that might not meet the needs at hand.

kyle

-- 
--
Kyle Banerjee
Digital Services Program Manager
Orbis Cascade Alliance
baner...@uoregon.edu / 503.877.9773

Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[Kelley McGrath]

I am not by any stretch of the imagination a coder, but I think it would be
helpful to have some discussion of common cataloger-coder communication
issues. So many cataloger-coder discussions online seem to consist of people
talking past each other (although I do think there is a much larger and less
vocal common ground in the middle). In addition, I have sometimes seen my
cataloger and coder/IT colleagues struggle to communicate with each other
and find myself trying to translate. Are there ways to make that translation
process easier or cultivate more translators? What do coders wish that
catalogers knew about how computers interact with metadata?

I would also be interested in ideas on how to shift the conversation more
towards underlying functionality. A central failing of computerized catalogs
IMO is that they tend to replicate the literal form and actions of cards and
the card catalog rather than tried to find a way to express the underlying
functionality of the card catalog in a computer environment. This is also
sometimes badly done because the programmers don't understand the point of
what they're replicating (although to be fair, what they're trying to work
with is often not in a form optimized for a computer environment). Uniform
titles in many catalogs are a good example of this.

Kelley

PS Some of the other emails mention wanting help with understanding where
real data differs from what's in specifications or differs over time or for
other reasons. Speaking as a reasonably competent cataloger, I would say
that, although some things can be anticipated in advance, I find this to
inevitably be an iterative process.

PPS I'm looking forward to attending.

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Becky Yoose  wrote:
> Hey folks,
>
> There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging 
> around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found 
> some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference 
> on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled 
> code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for 
> knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts.
>
> We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's 
> a wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, 
> and we want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the 
> pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can 
> you help us in letting us know:
>
> - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation?
> - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you 
> want covered?
>
> This information will help us greatly in how we structure the 
> pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a 
> half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between 
> beginners and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two 
> half-day preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs.
>
> Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best 
> as possible given what our group has brainstormed so far.
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Becky
> Official cat[aloger] herder
>
>
> ---
> Becky Yoose
> Systems Librarian
> Grinnell College Libraries
> yoose...@grinnell.edu
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[Bohyun Kim]

As a side note to this, the communication issue is not unique between 
catalogers and coders. It is a common discussion topic (librarians vs. IT; 
emerging technology librarians vs. library coders; even web designers vs. web 
developers).  I hear about this a lot in library conferences. But of course, 
discussion there is mostly from the librarians' point of view. Since code4lib 
is unique in that many library coders get together, it would be good to hear 
the thoughts on this from the coders' point of view as well. 

~Bohyun

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Kelley 
McGrath
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:19 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

I am not by any stretch of the imagination a coder, but I think it would be 
helpful to have some discussion of common cataloger-coder communication issues. 
So many cataloger-coder discussions online seem to consist of people talking 
past each other (although I do think there is a much larger and less vocal 
common ground in the middle). In addition, I have sometimes seen my cataloger 
and coder/IT colleagues struggle to communicate with each other and find myself 
trying to translate. Are there ways to make that translation process easier or 
cultivate more translators? What do coders wish that catalogers knew about how 
computers interact with metadata?

I would also be interested in ideas on how to shift the conversation more 
towards underlying functionality. A central failing of computerized catalogs 
IMO is that they tend to replicate the literal form and actions of cards and 
the card catalog rather than tried to find a way to express the underlying 
functionality of the card catalog in a computer environment. This is also 
sometimes badly done because the programmers don't understand the point of what 
they're replicating (although to be fair, what they're trying to work with is 
often not in a form optimized for a computer environment). Uniform titles in 
many catalogs are a good example of this.

Kelley

PS Some of the other emails mention wanting help with understanding where real 
data differs from what's in specifications or differs over time or for other 
reasons. Speaking as a reasonably competent cataloger, I would say that, 
although some things can be anticipated in advance, I find this to inevitably 
be an iterative process.

PPS I'm looking forward to attending.

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Becky Yoose  wrote:
> Hey folks,
>
> There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging 
> around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found 
> some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference 
> on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled 
> code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for 
> knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts.
>
> We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's 
> a wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, 
> and we want to make sure that those interested get the most out of the 
> pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, can 
> you help us in letting us know:
>
> - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation?
> - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you 
> want covered?
>
> This information will help us greatly in how we structure the 
> pre-conference both in content and schedule. For now, we're planning a 
> half-day pre-conference, but if there's enough interest between 
> beginners and more experienced folks, we will consider offering two 
> half-day preconferences in order to focus on specific participant needs.
>
> Feel free to ask questions as well - I'll try to answer them as best 
> as possible given what our group has brainstormed so far.
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Becky
> Official cat[aloger] herder
>
>
> ---
> Becky Yoose
> Systems Librarian
> Grinnell College Libraries
> yoose...@grinnell.edu
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[Tania Fersenheim]

It could be very helpful to have a short history of MARC.  AIUI,
MARC's purpose was to make automate the printing of catalog cards.
Searching, OPACs, etc, were bolted on later.  Maybe having an
understanding of why MARC looks like it does will help coders feel
less frustrated with some of its weird quirks - like Uniform Title.

I've found programmers to be fascinated by MARC once they begin to
understand why it is structured the way it is and (most importantly)
understand why it's not going to metamorphose either quickly or soon
into a form they might see as more logical or useful. :-)

-- 

Tania Fersenheim
Manager of Library Systems

Brandeis University
Library and Technology Services

415 South Street, (MS 017/P.O. Box 549110)
Waltham, MA 02454-9110
Phone: 781.736.4698
Fax: 781.736.4577
email: tan...@brandeis.edu

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 7:18 PM, Kelley McGrath  wrote:
> I am not by any stretch of the imagination a coder, but I think it would be
> helpful to have some discussion of common cataloger-coder communication
> issues. So many cataloger-coder discussions online seem to consist of people
> talking past each other (although I do think there is a much larger and less
> vocal common ground in the middle). In addition, I have sometimes seen my
> cataloger and coder/IT colleagues struggle to communicate with each other
> and find myself trying to translate. Are there ways to make that translation
> process easier or cultivate more translators? What do coders wish that
> catalogers knew about how computers interact with metadata?
>
> I would also be interested in ideas on how to shift the conversation more
> towards underlying functionality. A central failing of computerized catalogs
> IMO is that they tend to replicate the literal form and actions of cards and
> the card catalog rather than tried to find a way to express the underlying
> functionality of the card catalog in a computer environment. This is also
> sometimes badly done because the programmers don't understand the point of
> what they're replicating (although to be fair, what they're trying to work
> with is often not in a form optimized for a computer environment). Uniform
> titles in many catalogs are a good example of this.
>
> Kelley
>
> PS Some of the other emails mention wanting help with understanding where
> real data differs from what's in specifications or differs over time or for
> other reasons. Speaking as a reasonably competent cataloger, I would say
> that, although some things can be anticipated in advance, I find this to
> inevitably be an iterative process.
>
> PPS I'm looking forward to attending.
>
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Becky Yoose  wrote:
>> Hey folks,
>>
>> There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging
>> around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found
>> some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference
>> on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled
>> code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for
>> knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts.

Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your brains

[Kelley McGrath]

00  $a A-Z p.
  300  $a p. 713-797
  300  $$a xxiv, 179 + p.

[all except the second are straight out of AACR2]
That's quite a few examples to account for.

I have no idea how a computer would know whether ill. ought to map to
illustration or illustrations in most cases since the distinction was not
recorded. Perhaps illustration(s) would work.

That doesn't even start to address mistakes in data, allowing for older
rules (AACR1's illus.), non-English language records or local practices that
go against the rules. All this is not to say that there isn't a real need
here. Their ought to be a way to both minimize the amount of typing that
catalogers have to do while at the same time provide full, unambiguous
displays for users.

So what I wish is that there were some way to get more catalogers to see
that despite Watson, there are serious limitations to what computers can
practically do and that we would be better off if we worked with computer's
strengths instead of trying to make them do things that are hard for them to
do so we can reproduce the form of the card catalog (as opposed to the
function).

Kelley

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 8:26 AM, Bohyun Kim  wrote:
> As a side note to this, the communication issue is not unique between
catalogers and coders. It is a common discussion topic (librarians vs. IT;
emerging technology librarians vs. library coders; even web designers vs.
web developers).  I hear about this a lot in library conferences. But of
course, discussion there is mostly from the librarians' point of view. Since
code4lib is unique in that many library coders get together, it would be
good to hear the thoughts on this from the coders' point of view as well.
>
> ~Bohyun
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf 
> Of Kelley McGrath
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:19 PM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Cataloging4Coders @ C4L12 - We need your 
> brains
>
> I am not by any stretch of the imagination a coder, but I think it would
be helpful to have some discussion of common cataloger-coder communication
issues. So many cataloger-coder discussions online seem to consist of people
talking past each other (although I do think there is a much larger and less
vocal common ground in the middle). In addition, I have sometimes seen my
cataloger and coder/IT colleagues struggle to communicate with each other
and find myself trying to translate. Are there ways to make that translation
process easier or cultivate more translators? What do coders wish that
catalogers knew about how computers interact with metadata?
>
> I would also be interested in ideas on how to shift the conversation more
towards underlying functionality. A central failing of computerized catalogs
IMO is that they tend to replicate the literal form and actions of cards and
the card catalog rather than tried to find a way to express the underlying
functionality of the card catalog in a computer environment. This is also
sometimes badly done because the programmers don't understand the point of
what they're replicating (although to be fair, what they're trying to work
with is often not in a form optimized for a computer environment). Uniform
titles in many catalogs are a good example of this.
>
> Kelley
>
> PS Some of the other emails mention wanting help with understanding where
real data differs from what's in specifications or differs over time or for
other reasons. Speaking as a reasonably competent cataloger, I would say
that, although some things can be anticipated in advance, I find this to
inevitably be an iterative process.
>
> PPS I'm looking forward to attending.
>
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Becky Yoose  wrote:
>> Hey folks,
>>
>> There's been increasing discussion and interest about cataloging 
>> around this community (and others like it) for quite a while. I found 
>> some co-conspirators and we are planning to propose a pre-conference 
>> on cataloging/library metadata creation geared towards the huddled 
>> code4lib masses (otherwise known as coders) who are yearning for 
>> knowledge of this Darkest of Library Arts.
>>
>> We need you help before we post our proposal. We realize that there's 
>> a wide range of cataloging knowledge and experience in the community, 
>> and we want to make sure that those interested get the most out of 
>> the pre-conference. If this pre-conference has perked your interest, 
>> can you help us in letting us know:
>>
>> - What experience do you have with cataloging/library metadata creation?
>> - What do you want us to cover? Do you have any questions that you 
>> want covered?
>>
>> This information will help us greatly in how we structure the 
>