Re: [CODE4LIB] Don't Change Your Site Because of Reference Librarians RE: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

[Jennifer Goslee]

I agree with the intial responses:

For the functionality they desire, they should be using an OS level
magnification tool.

A responsive website should always behave like a website, NOT like word
document. It is not a reasonable request to change the behavior for this
one use case. (And if you change it for this one, what  demand will be made
next?)

Re: [CODE4LIB] Don't Change Your Site Because of Reference Librarians RE: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

[Andreas Orphanides]

On the other hand, a typical user would expect an in-application feature
called "zoom" to zoom.

There's a tension between website behavior and application behavior that
has yet to be resolved. I think this is the key element where responsive
design faces a challenge. Not every use case with a small viewport is
well-served by the same interface, so some compromise inevitably manifests
in the "narrow" response. (This may also be true of larger viewports -- but
the obvious examples that come to mind are all at the small end.)

On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 11:37 AM, Jennifer Goslee  wrote:

> I agree with the intial responses:
>
> For the functionality they desire, they should be using an OS level
> magnification tool.
>
> A responsive website should always behave like a website, NOT like word
> document. It is not a reasonable request to change the behavior for this
> one use case. (And if you change it for this one, what  demand will be made
> next?)
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

[Chris Moschini]

I'm also torn on this issue. It's safe to conclude that for many users,
Responsive has broken the Zoom button. That's a strict no-no - don't break
fundamental features of the browser. Yet Responsive is essential to dealing
with a wide range of devices.

Worse, it's hard to tell what the user intended.

If I have my browser always set to zoom 200%, it's probably because I've
got bad eyes and want to see everything larger - fonts, images with text in
them, logos, icons presented as images - all of it - not just a font zoom.
If that means the Responsive code on the page presents it all to me like
Mobile so I don't have a horizontal scroll, that seems ideal.

But if I hit the Zoom feature while the page is open, I'm probably trying
to zoom in on something specific. Two problems, one minor one major:

1) The site reflows, confusing me. Some sites look dramatically different,
some less so.

2) If I've scrolled down at all, the reflow is going to throw the content
I'm focused on downwards, or at times, upwards, depending on how it was
coded. Bootstrap even includes things like hidden-xs, which people often
use to hide sidebars. If I was trying to zoom in on the content of a
sidebar, it might scurry down the page then vanish on me entirely as I
zoom. Definitely not what I wanted.


So it seems the right answer is to present the user with a reflowed site if
they land on the page already zoomed, but after that, respond to zooming by
not reflowing at all. Has anyone done this?

I looked at Katherine's brilliant proposed fix, but it doesn't do it - the
site linked to there actually has the fix implemented and, well, it doesn't
fix it. Zoom still reflows.

I think this is a problem for Bootstrap especially, since it's the most
widely-in-use Responsive library, uses pixel-width media queries, and
exhibits this problem. Sadly this was reported as a bug in 2012 and as so
often happens in open source, the maintainers responded essentially, "This
isn't what I want to do" https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/issues/2002

If no one's done it here's how I'd propose coding it:

1) Replace all media queries for sizing, something like this:

@media (min-width: 720px) {
  >720px styles go here

Becomes:

body.minWidth720 {
  >720px styles go here

Then apply js to the page. You'd place a very small amount in the head (bad
for performance but essential for preventing a FOUC) that measures window
width and applies the relevant classes to the body tag.

Then at the end of the body tag, more Javascript listens for resizes and
responds by swapping the body classes. Since zoom doesn't trigger resize*
on most devices, you'd still get the site to reflow nicely, when for
example someone rotates a smartphone from 720 wide to 1280 wide, but when
they zoom, nothing would reflow (since it was set in stone by the js in the
head).

Thoughts?

*Not tested, need to verify - if it does trigger resize though the solution
is to attempt to detect whether it's a zoom click vs browser drag/rotate.

Re: [CODE4LIB] Don't Change Your Site Because of Reference Librarians RE: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

[Katherine Deibel]

When people zoom in (e.g., CTRL+), they aren't actually *zooming in* insomuch 
as making the viewport smaller. The viewport is the keystone to the media query 
magic that makes websites responsive. When it is smaller, like for your phone, 
then it presents a different layout.


Because yes, that is exactly what users are expecting when they use a 
feature called zoom. Content and layout change too in other applications 
like Word, PDF readers, etc. when you zoom in and out... oh wait... they 
don't.


Nope. I would argue that most users believe zoom works like zoom in 
other applications and would not talk about the technical aspects of how 
responsiveness and concepts like view ports.


From a disability accessibility perspective, magnification is not 
purely about text readability but making sure that all features of a 
website---images, interactive widgets, text, etc.---are of use to the 
user. Merely changing the font size is like putting out a fire in the 
kitchen while the rest of the house is ablaze.




Kate Deibel, PhD | Web Applications Specialist
Information Technology Services
University of Washington Libraries
http://staff.washington.edu/deibel

--

"When Thor shows up, it's always deus ex machina."

On 2016-02-08 7:18 AM, Michael Schofield wrote:

Hi folks,

Chiming in. Kyle asked


The reference librarians frequently zoom in on our homepage during class 
instruction, and have noticed that after they zoom in a bit, our homepage 
switches from desktop to the mobile layout. Is there any easy way around this?  
In other words, is it possible to fix the site so that, if a user is on a 
desktop/laptop, zooming in on the homepage will *not* flip the user over to the 
mobile layout?


This is actually the normal and expected behavior of responsive websites. 
Otherwise breaking this zoom would make the content less accessible, but 
perhaps a workaround would be to add a font size toggle in the header of the 
website where users can increase or decrease just the font size. Since I read 
you were using jQuery, check out this code that does what I described really 
neatly: http://codepen.io/ianfarb/pen/sxbvk .

When people zoom in (e.g., CTRL+), they aren't actually *zooming in* insomuch 
as making the viewport smaller. The viewport is the keystone to the media query 
magic that makes websites responsive. When it is smaller, like for your phone, 
then it presents a different layout.

Anyway, I really wanted to comment to warn against making changes like this to 
your website because of library-specific use cases - e.g., someone, staff or 
stakeholder, complains. These don't reflect the use cases of your patronbase.

The reference librarians can change the default font size of their browsers. I 
would make them google that, rather than seek to break the zoom. For starters, 
here is how you go about it in Chrome. 
http://www.ehow.com/how_10035444_change-text-size-color-google.html

Good question!

Michael Schofield
www.libux.co / @schoeyfield / www.webforlibraries.com

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of 
Katherine N. Deibel
Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 2:43 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

This is actually a really good question as it gets into an interesting
tension between responsiveness and accessibility. Zooming is often a
useful means of addressing visual access issues, and one cannot presume
that a user will have external or in-browser apps for magnification.

There is some literature on defining media queries using em/rem units
instead of pixels, which would address some of the issues.
http://blog.cloudfour.com/the-ems-have-it-proportional-media-queries-ftw/
https://css-tricks.com/zooming-squishes/

I can't say for certain about this, however, as I haven't tested it yet.
I have now added zooming vs responsiveness to my testing criteria.


Kate Deibel, PhD | Web Applications Specialist
Information Technology Services
University of Washington Libraries
http://staff.washington.edu/deibel

--

"When Thor shows up, it's always deus ex machina."

On 2/5/2016 10:40 AM, Kyle Breneman wrote:

Happy Friday, everybody!

Our library recently got a shiny new, responsive-esque website.
<http://langsdale.ubalt.edu>  The reference librarians frequently zoom in
on our homepage during class instruction, and have noticed that after they
zoom in a bit, our homepage switches from desktop to the mobile layout.

Is there any easy way around this?  In other words, is it possible to fix
the site so that, if a user is on a desktop/laptop, zooming in on the
homepage will *not* flip the user over to the mobile layout?

Thanks for your help!

Kyle

Re: [CODE4LIB] Don't Change Your Site Because of Reference Librarians RE: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

[Eric Lease Morgan]

On Feb 8, 2016, at 11:25 AM, Katherine Deibel  wrote:

> From a disability accessibility perspective, magnification is not purely 
> about text readability but making sure that all features of a 
> website---images, interactive widgets, text, etc.---are of use to the user. 
> Merely changing the font size is like putting out a fire in the kitchen while 
> the rest of the house is ablaze.

  deibel++  &  ROTFL  —ELM

Re: [CODE4LIB] Don't Change Your Site Because of Reference Librarians RE: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

[Katherine Deibel]

I'm more of a

his

Kate Deibel, PhD | Web Applications Specialist
Information Technology Services
University of Washington Libraries
http://staff.washington.edu/deibel

--

"When Thor shows up, it's always deus ex machina."

On 2016-02-08 5:40 PM, Cary Gordon wrote:

I have long held the following opinion on zoom control directives:

Grr



On Feb 8, 2016, at 10:16 AM, Haitz, Lisa (haitzlm) <hait...@ucmail.uc.edu> 
wrote:

In the case of the original question, with regard to  
<http://langsdale.ubalt.edu>
This code is on the web site:



In my experience, I thought having the max-scale value would affect 
accessibility, by breaking the zoom function.??

http://a11yproject.com/posts/never-use-maximum-scale/

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cary 
Gordon
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 12:11 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Don't Change Your Site Because of Reference Librarians 
RE: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

This is less a matter of site behavior that it is an issue with how the zoom 
feature works. I agree that zoom should work as you describe, but it won’t work 
that way if the browser is sending the wrong message regarding the viewport. 
The viewport should not change when the page is zoomed in on. I think that most 
users would expect that zooming would enlarge a protion of the viewport, and 
that is what it should do.

Cary

Cary Gordon, MLS
The Cherry Hill Company
http://chillco.com


On Feb 8, 2016, at 8:25 AM, Katherine Deibel <dei...@uw.edu> wrote:


When people zoom in (e.g., CTRL+), they aren't actually *zooming in* insomuch 
as making the viewport smaller. The viewport is the keystone to the media query 
magic that makes websites responsive. When it is smaller, like for your phone, 
then it presents a different layout.


Because yes, that is exactly what users are expecting when they use a feature 
called zoom. Content and layout change too in other applications like Word, PDF 
readers, etc. when you zoom in and out... oh wait... they don't.

Nope. I would argue that most users believe zoom works like zoom in other 
applications and would not talk about the technical aspects of how 
responsiveness and concepts like view ports.

 From a disability accessibility perspective, magnification is not purely about 
text readability but making sure that all features of a website---images, 
interactive widgets, text, etc.---are of use to the user. Merely changing the 
font size is like putting out a fire in the kitchen while the rest of the house 
is ablaze.



Kate Deibel, PhD | Web Applications Specialist Information Technology
Services University of Washington Libraries
http://staff.washington.edu/deibel

--

"When Thor shows up, it's always deus ex machina."

On 2016-02-08 7:18 AM, Michael Schofield wrote:

Hi folks,

Chiming in. Kyle asked


The reference librarians frequently zoom in on our homepage during class 
instruction, and have noticed that after they zoom in a bit, our homepage 
switches from desktop to the mobile layout. Is there any easy way around this?  
In other words, is it possible to fix the site so that, if a user is on a 
desktop/laptop, zooming in on the homepage will *not* flip the user over to the 
mobile layout?


This is actually the normal and expected behavior of responsive websites. 
Otherwise breaking this zoom would make the content less accessible, but 
perhaps a workaround would be to add a font size toggle in the header of the 
website where users can increase or decrease just the font size. Since I read 
you were using jQuery, check out this code that does what I described really 
neatly: http://codepen.io/ianfarb/pen/sxbvk .

When people zoom in (e.g., CTRL+), they aren't actually *zooming in* insomuch 
as making the viewport smaller. The viewport is the keystone to the media query 
magic that makes websites responsive. When it is smaller, like for your phone, 
then it presents a different layout.

Anyway, I really wanted to comment to warn against making changes like this to 
your website because of library-specific use cases - e.g., someone, staff or 
stakeholder, complains. These don't reflect the use cases of your patronbase.

The reference librarians can change the default font size of their
browsers. I would make them google that, rather than seek to break
the zoom. For starters, here is how you go about it in Chrome.
http://www.ehow.com/how_10035444_change-text-size-color-google.html

Good question!

Michael Schofield
www.libux.co / @schoeyfield / www.webforlibraries.com

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf
Of Katherine N. Deibel
Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 2:43 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

This is actually a really good question as it gets into an
inte

Re: [CODE4LIB] Don't Change Your Site Because of Reference Librarians RE: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

[Cary Gordon]

I have long held the following opinion on zoom control directives:

Grr


> On Feb 8, 2016, at 10:16 AM, Haitz, Lisa (haitzlm) <hait...@ucmail.uc.edu> 
> wrote:
> 
> In the case of the original question, with regard to  
> <http://langsdale.ubalt.edu>  
> This code is on the web site:
> content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0, 
> maximum-scale=1.0"/>
> 
> 
> In my experience, I thought having the max-scale value would affect 
> accessibility, by breaking the zoom function.?? 
> 
> http://a11yproject.com/posts/never-use-maximum-scale/
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cary 
> Gordon
> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 12:11 PM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Don't Change Your Site Because of Reference 
> Librarians RE: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question
> 
> This is less a matter of site behavior that it is an issue with how the zoom 
> feature works. I agree that zoom should work as you describe, but it won’t 
> work that way if the browser is sending the wrong message regarding the 
> viewport. The viewport should not change when the page is zoomed in on. I 
> think that most users would expect that zooming would enlarge a protion of 
> the viewport, and that is what it should do.
> 
> Cary
> 
> Cary Gordon, MLS
> The Cherry Hill Company
> http://chillco.com
> 
>> On Feb 8, 2016, at 8:25 AM, Katherine Deibel <dei...@uw.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> When people zoom in (e.g., CTRL+), they aren't actually *zooming in* 
>>> insomuch as making the viewport smaller. The viewport is the keystone to 
>>> the media query magic that makes websites responsive. When it is smaller, 
>>> like for your phone, then it presents a different layout.
>> 
>> Because yes, that is exactly what users are expecting when they use a 
>> feature called zoom. Content and layout change too in other applications 
>> like Word, PDF readers, etc. when you zoom in and out... oh wait... they 
>> don't.
>> 
>> Nope. I would argue that most users believe zoom works like zoom in other 
>> applications and would not talk about the technical aspects of how 
>> responsiveness and concepts like view ports.
>> 
>> From a disability accessibility perspective, magnification is not purely 
>> about text readability but making sure that all features of a 
>> website---images, interactive widgets, text, etc.---are of use to the user. 
>> Merely changing the font size is like putting out a fire in the kitchen 
>> while the rest of the house is ablaze.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Kate Deibel, PhD | Web Applications Specialist Information Technology 
>> Services University of Washington Libraries 
>> http://staff.washington.edu/deibel
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> "When Thor shows up, it's always deus ex machina."
>> 
>> On 2016-02-08 7:18 AM, Michael Schofield wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>> 
>>> Chiming in. Kyle asked
>>> 
>>>> The reference librarians frequently zoom in on our homepage during class 
>>>> instruction, and have noticed that after they zoom in a bit, our homepage 
>>>> switches from desktop to the mobile layout. Is there any easy way around 
>>>> this?  In other words, is it possible to fix the site so that, if a user 
>>>> is on a desktop/laptop, zooming in on the homepage will *not* flip the 
>>>> user over to the mobile layout?
>>> 
>>> This is actually the normal and expected behavior of responsive websites. 
>>> Otherwise breaking this zoom would make the content less accessible, but 
>>> perhaps a workaround would be to add a font size toggle in the header of 
>>> the website where users can increase or decrease just the font size. Since 
>>> I read you were using jQuery, check out this code that does what I 
>>> described really neatly: http://codepen.io/ianfarb/pen/sxbvk .
>>> 
>>> When people zoom in (e.g., CTRL+), they aren't actually *zooming in* 
>>> insomuch as making the viewport smaller. The viewport is the keystone to 
>>> the media query magic that makes websites responsive. When it is smaller, 
>>> like for your phone, then it presents a different layout.
>>> 
>>> Anyway, I really wanted to comment to warn against making changes like this 
>>> to your website because of library-specific use cases - e.g., someone, 
>>> staff or stakeholder, complains. These don't reflect the use cases of your 
>>> patronbase.
>>> 
>

[CODE4LIB] Don't Change Your Site Because of Reference Librarians RE: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

[Michael Schofield]

Hi folks,

Chiming in. Kyle asked

> The reference librarians frequently zoom in on our homepage during class 
> instruction, and have noticed that after they zoom in a bit, our homepage 
> switches from desktop to the mobile layout. Is there any easy way around 
> this?  In other words, is it possible to fix the site so that, if a user is 
> on a desktop/laptop, zooming in on the homepage will *not* flip the user over 
> to the mobile layout?

This is actually the normal and expected behavior of responsive websites. 
Otherwise breaking this zoom would make the content less accessible, but 
perhaps a workaround would be to add a font size toggle in the header of the 
website where users can increase or decrease just the font size. Since I read 
you were using jQuery, check out this code that does what I described really 
neatly: http://codepen.io/ianfarb/pen/sxbvk .

When people zoom in (e.g., CTRL+), they aren't actually *zooming in* insomuch 
as making the viewport smaller. The viewport is the keystone to the media query 
magic that makes websites responsive. When it is smaller, like for your phone, 
then it presents a different layout.

Anyway, I really wanted to comment to warn against making changes like this to 
your website because of library-specific use cases - e.g., someone, staff or 
stakeholder, complains. These don't reflect the use cases of your patronbase. 

The reference librarians can change the default font size of their browsers. I 
would make them google that, rather than seek to break the zoom. For starters, 
here is how you go about it in Chrome. 
http://www.ehow.com/how_10035444_change-text-size-color-google.html

Good question!

Michael Schofield
www.libux.co / @schoeyfield / www.webforlibraries.com 

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of 
Katherine N. Deibel
Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 2:43 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

This is actually a really good question as it gets into an interesting 
tension between responsiveness and accessibility. Zooming is often a 
useful means of addressing visual access issues, and one cannot presume 
that a user will have external or in-browser apps for magnification.

There is some literature on defining media queries using em/rem units 
instead of pixels, which would address some of the issues.
http://blog.cloudfour.com/the-ems-have-it-proportional-media-queries-ftw/
https://css-tricks.com/zooming-squishes/

I can't say for certain about this, however, as I haven't tested it yet. 
I have now added zooming vs responsiveness to my testing criteria.


Kate Deibel, PhD | Web Applications Specialist
Information Technology Services
University of Washington Libraries
http://staff.washington.edu/deibel

--

"When Thor shows up, it's always deus ex machina."

On 2/5/2016 10:40 AM, Kyle Breneman wrote:
> Happy Friday, everybody!
>
> Our library recently got a shiny new, responsive-esque website.
> <http://langsdale.ubalt.edu>  The reference librarians frequently zoom in
> on our homepage during class instruction, and have noticed that after they
> zoom in a bit, our homepage switches from desktop to the mobile layout.
>
> Is there any easy way around this?  In other words, is it possible to fix
> the site so that, if a user is on a desktop/laptop, zooming in on the
> homepage will *not* flip the user over to the mobile layout?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Kyle
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Don't Change Your Site Because of Reference Librarians RE: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

[Cary Gordon]

This is less a matter of site behavior that it is an issue with how the zoom 
feature works. I agree that zoom should work as you describe, but it won’t work 
that way if the browser is sending the wrong message regarding the viewport. 
The viewport should not change when the page is zoomed in on. I think that most 
users would expect that zooming would enlarge a protion of the viewport, and 
that is what it should do.

Cary

Cary Gordon, MLS
The Cherry Hill Company
http://chillco.com

> On Feb 8, 2016, at 8:25 AM, Katherine Deibel <dei...@uw.edu> wrote:
> 
>> When people zoom in (e.g., CTRL+), they aren't actually *zooming in* 
>> insomuch as making the viewport smaller. The viewport is the keystone to the 
>> media query magic that makes websites responsive. When it is smaller, like 
>> for your phone, then it presents a different layout.
> 
> Because yes, that is exactly what users are expecting when they use a feature 
> called zoom. Content and layout change too in other applications like Word, 
> PDF readers, etc. when you zoom in and out... oh wait... they don't.
> 
> Nope. I would argue that most users believe zoom works like zoom in other 
> applications and would not talk about the technical aspects of how 
> responsiveness and concepts like view ports.
> 
> From a disability accessibility perspective, magnification is not purely 
> about text readability but making sure that all features of a 
> website---images, interactive widgets, text, etc.---are of use to the user. 
> Merely changing the font size is like putting out a fire in the kitchen while 
> the rest of the house is ablaze.
> 
> 
> 
> Kate Deibel, PhD | Web Applications Specialist
> Information Technology Services
> University of Washington Libraries
> http://staff.washington.edu/deibel
> 
> --
> 
> "When Thor shows up, it's always deus ex machina."
> 
> On 2016-02-08 7:18 AM, Michael Schofield wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> Chiming in. Kyle asked
>> 
>>> The reference librarians frequently zoom in on our homepage during class 
>>> instruction, and have noticed that after they zoom in a bit, our homepage 
>>> switches from desktop to the mobile layout. Is there any easy way around 
>>> this?  In other words, is it possible to fix the site so that, if a user is 
>>> on a desktop/laptop, zooming in on the homepage will *not* flip the user 
>>> over to the mobile layout?
>> 
>> This is actually the normal and expected behavior of responsive websites. 
>> Otherwise breaking this zoom would make the content less accessible, but 
>> perhaps a workaround would be to add a font size toggle in the header of the 
>> website where users can increase or decrease just the font size. Since I 
>> read you were using jQuery, check out this code that does what I described 
>> really neatly: http://codepen.io/ianfarb/pen/sxbvk .
>> 
>> When people zoom in (e.g., CTRL+), they aren't actually *zooming in* 
>> insomuch as making the viewport smaller. The viewport is the keystone to the 
>> media query magic that makes websites responsive. When it is smaller, like 
>> for your phone, then it presents a different layout.
>> 
>> Anyway, I really wanted to comment to warn against making changes like this 
>> to your website because of library-specific use cases - e.g., someone, staff 
>> or stakeholder, complains. These don't reflect the use cases of your 
>> patronbase.
>> 
>> The reference librarians can change the default font size of their browsers. 
>> I would make them google that, rather than seek to break the zoom. For 
>> starters, here is how you go about it in Chrome. 
>> http://www.ehow.com/how_10035444_change-text-size-color-google.html
>> 
>> Good question!
>> 
>> Michael Schofield
>> www.libux.co / @schoeyfield / www.webforlibraries.com
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of 
>> Katherine N. Deibel
>> Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 2:43 PM
>> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question
>> 
>> This is actually a really good question as it gets into an interesting
>> tension between responsiveness and accessibility. Zooming is often a
>> useful means of addressing visual access issues, and one cannot presume
>> that a user will have external or in-browser apps for magnification.
>> 
>> There is some literature on defining media queries using em/rem units
>> instead of pixels, which would address some of the issues.
>> http://blog.cloudfour.com/the-ems-have-it-proportional-media-queries-

Re: [CODE4LIB] Don't Change Your Site Because of Reference Librarians RE: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

[David Mayo]

Firefox has an option in the Zoom menu called "Zoom Text Only," which
causes Zoom to only affect text size.

If you want to do an "optical" zoom in on a portion of a page (i.e.
physically enlarge an area of the page without changing layout), using
OS-level accessibility tools like Magnifier on Windows or the Zoom tool in
OSX's accessibility settings (System Preferences->Accessibility) is
probably the best solution, unless you find a third-party tool you really
like.

- Dave Mayo

On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Cary Gordon <listu...@chillco.com> wrote:

> This is less a matter of site behavior that it is an issue with how the
> zoom feature works. I agree that zoom should work as you describe, but it
> won’t work that way if the browser is sending the wrong message regarding
> the viewport. The viewport should not change when the page is zoomed in on.
> I think that most users would expect that zooming would enlarge a protion
> of the viewport, and that is what it should do.
>
> Cary
>
> Cary Gordon, MLS
> The Cherry Hill Company
> http://chillco.com
>
> > On Feb 8, 2016, at 8:25 AM, Katherine Deibel <dei...@uw.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> When people zoom in (e.g., CTRL+), they aren't actually *zooming in*
> insomuch as making the viewport smaller. The viewport is the keystone to
> the media query magic that makes websites responsive. When it is smaller,
> like for your phone, then it presents a different layout.
> >
> > Because yes, that is exactly what users are expecting when they use a
> feature called zoom. Content and layout change too in other applications
> like Word, PDF readers, etc. when you zoom in and out... oh wait... they
> don't.
> >
> > Nope. I would argue that most users believe zoom works like zoom in
> other applications and would not talk about the technical aspects of how
> responsiveness and concepts like view ports.
> >
> > From a disability accessibility perspective, magnification is not purely
> about text readability but making sure that all features of a
> website---images, interactive widgets, text, etc.---are of use to the user.
> Merely changing the font size is like putting out a fire in the kitchen
> while the rest of the house is ablaze.
> >
> >
> >
> > Kate Deibel, PhD | Web Applications Specialist
> > Information Technology Services
> > University of Washington Libraries
> > http://staff.washington.edu/deibel
> >
> > --
> >
> > "When Thor shows up, it's always deus ex machina."
> >
> > On 2016-02-08 7:18 AM, Michael Schofield wrote:
> >> Hi folks,
> >>
> >> Chiming in. Kyle asked
> >>
> >>> The reference librarians frequently zoom in on our homepage during
> class instruction, and have noticed that after they zoom in a bit, our
> homepage switches from desktop to the mobile layout. Is there any easy way
> around this?  In other words, is it possible to fix the site so that, if a
> user is on a desktop/laptop, zooming in on the homepage will *not* flip the
> user over to the mobile layout?
> >>
> >> This is actually the normal and expected behavior of responsive
> websites. Otherwise breaking this zoom would make the content less
> accessible, but perhaps a workaround would be to add a font size toggle in
> the header of the website where users can increase or decrease just the
> font size. Since I read you were using jQuery, check out this code that
> does what I described really neatly: http://codepen.io/ianfarb/pen/sxbvk .
> >>
> >> When people zoom in (e.g., CTRL+), they aren't actually *zooming in*
> insomuch as making the viewport smaller. The viewport is the keystone to
> the media query magic that makes websites responsive. When it is smaller,
> like for your phone, then it presents a different layout.
> >>
> >> Anyway, I really wanted to comment to warn against making changes like
> this to your website because of library-specific use cases - e.g., someone,
> staff or stakeholder, complains. These don't reflect the use cases of your
> patronbase.
> >>
> >> The reference librarians can change the default font size of their
> browsers. I would make them google that, rather than seek to break the
> zoom. For starters, here is how you go about it in Chrome.
> http://www.ehow.com/how_10035444_change-text-size-color-google.html
> >>
> >> Good question!
> >>
> >> Michael Schofield
> >> www.libux.co / @schoeyfield / www.webforlibraries.com
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf
> Of Katherine N. Deibel
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Don't Change Your Site Because of Reference Librarians RE: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

[Haitz, Lisa (haitzlm)]

In the case of the original question, with regard to  
<http://langsdale.ubalt.edu>  
This code is on the web site:



In my experience, I thought having the max-scale value would affect 
accessibility, by breaking the zoom function.?? 

http://a11yproject.com/posts/never-use-maximum-scale/

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cary 
Gordon
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 12:11 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Don't Change Your Site Because of Reference Librarians 
RE: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

This is less a matter of site behavior that it is an issue with how the zoom 
feature works. I agree that zoom should work as you describe, but it won’t work 
that way if the browser is sending the wrong message regarding the viewport. 
The viewport should not change when the page is zoomed in on. I think that most 
users would expect that zooming would enlarge a protion of the viewport, and 
that is what it should do.

Cary

Cary Gordon, MLS
The Cherry Hill Company
http://chillco.com

> On Feb 8, 2016, at 8:25 AM, Katherine Deibel <dei...@uw.edu> wrote:
> 
>> When people zoom in (e.g., CTRL+), they aren't actually *zooming in* 
>> insomuch as making the viewport smaller. The viewport is the keystone to the 
>> media query magic that makes websites responsive. When it is smaller, like 
>> for your phone, then it presents a different layout.
> 
> Because yes, that is exactly what users are expecting when they use a feature 
> called zoom. Content and layout change too in other applications like Word, 
> PDF readers, etc. when you zoom in and out... oh wait... they don't.
> 
> Nope. I would argue that most users believe zoom works like zoom in other 
> applications and would not talk about the technical aspects of how 
> responsiveness and concepts like view ports.
> 
> From a disability accessibility perspective, magnification is not purely 
> about text readability but making sure that all features of a 
> website---images, interactive widgets, text, etc.---are of use to the user. 
> Merely changing the font size is like putting out a fire in the kitchen while 
> the rest of the house is ablaze.
> 
> 
> 
> Kate Deibel, PhD | Web Applications Specialist Information Technology 
> Services University of Washington Libraries 
> http://staff.washington.edu/deibel
> 
> --
> 
> "When Thor shows up, it's always deus ex machina."
> 
> On 2016-02-08 7:18 AM, Michael Schofield wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> Chiming in. Kyle asked
>> 
>>> The reference librarians frequently zoom in on our homepage during class 
>>> instruction, and have noticed that after they zoom in a bit, our homepage 
>>> switches from desktop to the mobile layout. Is there any easy way around 
>>> this?  In other words, is it possible to fix the site so that, if a user is 
>>> on a desktop/laptop, zooming in on the homepage will *not* flip the user 
>>> over to the mobile layout?
>> 
>> This is actually the normal and expected behavior of responsive websites. 
>> Otherwise breaking this zoom would make the content less accessible, but 
>> perhaps a workaround would be to add a font size toggle in the header of the 
>> website where users can increase or decrease just the font size. Since I 
>> read you were using jQuery, check out this code that does what I described 
>> really neatly: http://codepen.io/ianfarb/pen/sxbvk .
>> 
>> When people zoom in (e.g., CTRL+), they aren't actually *zooming in* 
>> insomuch as making the viewport smaller. The viewport is the keystone to the 
>> media query magic that makes websites responsive. When it is smaller, like 
>> for your phone, then it presents a different layout.
>> 
>> Anyway, I really wanted to comment to warn against making changes like this 
>> to your website because of library-specific use cases - e.g., someone, staff 
>> or stakeholder, complains. These don't reflect the use cases of your 
>> patronbase.
>> 
>> The reference librarians can change the default font size of their 
>> browsers. I would make them google that, rather than seek to break 
>> the zoom. For starters, here is how you go about it in Chrome. 
>> http://www.ehow.com/how_10035444_change-text-size-color-google.html
>> 
>> Good question!
>> 
>> Michael Schofield
>> www.libux.co / @schoeyfield / www.webforlibraries.com
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf 
>> Of Katherine N. Deibel
>> Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 2:43 PM
>> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
>> Subject: R

Re: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

[Junior Tidal]

Hi Kyle, 

Our site is also responsive. As a work around, I've used screenshots of the 
site. 

Hope that helps!

Best,
Junior

Junior Tidal
Associate Professor
Web Services and Multimedia Librarian
New York City College of Technology, CUNY 
300 Jay Street, Rm A434
Brooklyn, NY 11201
718.260.5481
 
http://library.citytech.cuny.edu


>>> Kyle Breneman  2/5/2016 1:40 PM >>>
Happy Friday, everybody!

Our library recently got a shiny new, responsive-esque website.
  The reference librarians frequently zoom in
on our homepage during class instruction, and have noticed that after they
zoom in a bit, our homepage switches from desktop to the mobile layout.

Is there any easy way around this?  In other words, is it possible to fix
the site so that, if a user is on a desktop/laptop, zooming in on the
homepage will *not* flip the user over to the mobile layout?

Thanks for your help!

Kyle

Re: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

[Daron Dierkes]

It sounds like you're doing this within a browser, so why not find some
sort of magnifying glass extension?  Like maybe this one?
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/magnifier/



On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Junior Tidal 
wrote:

> Hi Kyle,
>
> Our site is also responsive. As a work around, I've used screenshots of
> the site.
>
> Hope that helps!
>
> Best,
> Junior
>
> Junior Tidal
> Associate Professor
> Web Services and Multimedia Librarian
> New York City College of Technology, CUNY
> 300 Jay Street, Rm A434
> Brooklyn, NY 11201
> 718.260.5481
>
> http://library.citytech.cuny.edu
>
>
> >>> Kyle Breneman  2/5/2016 1:40 PM >>>
> Happy Friday, everybody!
>
> Our library recently got a shiny new, responsive-esque website.
>   The reference librarians frequently zoom in
> on our homepage during class instruction, and have noticed that after they
> zoom in a bit, our homepage switches from desktop to the mobile layout.
>
> Is there any easy way around this?  In other words, is it possible to fix
> the site so that, if a user is on a desktop/laptop, zooming in on the
> homepage will *not* flip the user over to the mobile layout?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Kyle
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

[Katherine N. Deibel]

This is actually a really good question as it gets into an interesting 
tension between responsiveness and accessibility. Zooming is often a 
useful means of addressing visual access issues, and one cannot presume 
that a user will have external or in-browser apps for magnification.


There is some literature on defining media queries using em/rem units 
instead of pixels, which would address some of the issues.

http://blog.cloudfour.com/the-ems-have-it-proportional-media-queries-ftw/
https://css-tricks.com/zooming-squishes/

I can't say for certain about this, however, as I haven't tested it yet. 
I have now added zooming vs responsiveness to my testing criteria.



Kate Deibel, PhD | Web Applications Specialist
Information Technology Services
University of Washington Libraries
http://staff.washington.edu/deibel

--

"When Thor shows up, it's always deus ex machina."

On 2/5/2016 10:40 AM, Kyle Breneman wrote:

Happy Friday, everybody!

Our library recently got a shiny new, responsive-esque website.
  The reference librarians frequently zoom in
on our homepage during class instruction, and have noticed that after they
zoom in a bit, our homepage switches from desktop to the mobile layout.

Is there any easy way around this?  In other words, is it possible to fix
the site so that, if a user is on a desktop/laptop, zooming in on the
homepage will *not* flip the user over to the mobile layout?

Thanks for your help!

Kyle

Re: [CODE4LIB] Responsive website question

[Mark Pernotto]

Kyle,

Looking at the inspector in Chrome, it's trying to load this JS file:
http://www.ubalt.edu/_resources/js/2015/build_old/main.js

Which doesn't exist (takes it to a 404 page). However, you're loading the
404 page, and it's causing an error, possibly disrupting the CSS structure
somewhere. Looks like there are also some other jQuery deprecations
enlisted as well.


​

The correct link should be:
http://www.ubalt.edu/_resources/js/2015/build/main.js

.m


On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 11:06 AM, Daron Dierkes 
wrote:

> It sounds like you're doing this within a browser, so why not find some
> sort of magnifying glass extension?  Like maybe this one?
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/magnifier/
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Junior Tidal 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Kyle,
> >
> > Our site is also responsive. As a work around, I've used screenshots of
> > the site.
> >
> > Hope that helps!
> >
> > Best,
> > Junior
> >
> > Junior Tidal
> > Associate Professor
> > Web Services and Multimedia Librarian
> > New York City College of Technology, CUNY
> > 300 Jay Street, Rm A434
> > Brooklyn, NY 11201
> > 718.260.5481
> >
> > http://library.citytech.cuny.edu
> >
> >
> > >>> Kyle Breneman  2/5/2016 1:40 PM >>>
> > Happy Friday, everybody!
> >
> > Our library recently got a shiny new, responsive-esque website.
> >   The reference librarians frequently zoom
> in
> > on our homepage during class instruction, and have noticed that after
> they
> > zoom in a bit, our homepage switches from desktop to the mobile layout.
> >
> > Is there any easy way around this?  In other words, is it possible to fix
> > the site so that, if a user is on a desktop/laptop, zooming in on the
> > homepage will *not* flip the user over to the mobile layout?
> >
> > Thanks for your help!
> >
> > Kyle
> >
>