Re: Idea: WiFi to GPRS gateway
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, Joel Newkirk wrote: Gabriel Ambuehl wrote: I've used a Zaurus before as a wifi-to-gprs gateway, when my DSL was down for a few days. It is trivial to set up, actually. (I was using Zaurus with two different CF wifi cards, Socket and Ambicom, in AP mode OR client mode with zaurus as default gateway on wireless AP, and using GPRS over IRDA) Compile Netfilter modules for the kernel to support NAT, packet forwarding, firewalling, etc. (I would hope that even if not bundled with the unit, every kernel module possible would be built and available to install) This should be suitable as well via USB networking... Not useful in the same situations, perhaps, but nevertheless useful. Justification for ensuring that iptable_nat and related modules are made available. Useful especially if you have a USB wifi adapter... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Idea: WiFi to GPRS gateway
Gabriel Ambuehl wrote: > On Wednesday 27 December 2006 18:16, Ole Tange wrote: >> I actually thought it was more a software/firmware issue. I might be wrong. >> > > Once you have the two systems talking to each other (for which adhoc would > likely be fine if AP mode doesnt work [1]), the software issue becomes > actually quite trivial (or I'm missing something). > > You need NAT in the kernel to act as a gateway and possible dnsmasq (or > similar) to do DHCP, both of which are very well understood (especially after > years of hacking WRT54 and it's brethren) and available for OpenEmbedded. I've used a Zaurus before as a wifi-to-gprs gateway, when my DSL was down for a few days. It is trivial to set up, actually. (I was using Zaurus with two different CF wifi cards, Socket and Ambicom, in AP mode OR client mode with zaurus as default gateway on wireless AP, and using GPRS over IRDA) Compile Netfilter modules for the kernel to support NAT, packet forwarding, firewalling, etc. (I would hope that even if not bundled with the unit, every kernel module possible would be built and available to install) This should be suitable as well via USB networking... Not useful in the same situations, perhaps, but nevertheless useful. Justification for ensuring that iptable_nat and related modules are made available. j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Idea: WiFi to GPRS gateway
On Wednesday 27 December 2006 18:16, Ole Tange wrote: > I actually thought it was more a software/firmware issue. I might be wrong. > Once you have the two systems talking to each other (for which adhoc would likely be fine if AP mode doesnt work [1]), the software issue becomes actually quite trivial (or I'm missing something). You need NAT in the kernel to act as a gateway and possible dnsmasq (or similar) to do DHCP, both of which are very well understood (especially after years of hacking WRT54 and it's brethren) and available for OpenEmbedded. [1] Not sure what Win does with DHCP in adhoc mode though. As last resort, you could do without DHCP sacrificing mostly just some comfort. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Idea: WiFi to GPRS gateway
On 12/27/06, Gabriel Ambuehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Wednesday 27 December 2006 17:42, Ole Tange wrote: > If you are located a place without internet connection the Neo should > be able to act as a WiFi access point and route this through GPRS to > the Internet. It will probably make sense to make the access point not > open for anyone. This is mostly a matter of getting a WiFi chip that supports acting as access point which is something not all of them support AFAIK. I actually thought it was more a software/firmware issue. I might be wrong. I suppose one could do it with adhoc networking, too. It would work somewhat differently than most are used to, but given you somehow get the Neo to speak WiFi it looks rather easy, actually. I just noticed that in the email it is not clear that it is listed in Ideas for OpenMoko requiring WiFi and therefore not applicable to version 1: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMokoIdeasWithWiFi /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Idea: Virtual desktop
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ole Tange schreef: > When the desktop is only 640x480 it would be handy to easily change > between multiple desktops. Virtual desktops don't make sense when you use a fullscreen window manager like matchbox. regards, Koen -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFkqagMkyGM64RGpERAoMOAJ9CCp1h6EELcNQ9GSvYsJzzJFAvHACeIcJw +4GSOQ5zTTnL8hZHabuCDg8= =qs1D -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Idea: WiFi to GPRS gateway
On Wednesday 27 December 2006 17:42, Ole Tange wrote: > If you are located a place without internet connection the Neo should > be able to act as a WiFi access point and route this through GPRS to > the Internet. It will probably make sense to make the access point not > open for anyone. This is mostly a matter of getting a WiFi chip that supports acting as access point which is something not all of them support AFAIK. I suppose one could do it with adhoc networking, too. It would work somewhat differently than most are used to, but given you somehow get the Neo to speak WiFi it looks rather easy, actually. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea: WiFi to GPRS gateway
If you are located a place without internet connection the Neo should be able to act as a WiFi access point and route this through GPRS to the Internet. It will probably make sense to make the access point not open for anyone. /Ole -- http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ideas/WiFiToGPRSGateway ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea: Virtual desktop
When the desktop is only 640x480 it would be handy to easily change between multiple desktops. /Ole -- http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ideas/VirtualDesktop ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea: Vibrator as keyboard click
The Neo only has a touch screen which makes it hard to feel if a key is pressed. A click sound can help, but sound can be annoying to your environment. Visual feedback helps, but it would be nice to feel it too. You could have the phone move slightly if the vibrator is activated for a very short time (e.g. 50 ms). This would give a silent, yet destinctive feedback. /Ole -- http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ideas/VibratorAsKeyboardClick ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea: Taxi hire system
This idea would probably make sense to implement for a company that sells taxi hire administration systems. Each taxi is equipped with * a Neo * a USB hub (powered by the car) * a USB printer (powered by the car) * a USB credit card reader (powered by the car) The Neo will have internet access somehow. This can be done using GPRS or using an external radio (short range taxi radio or wimax) connected through the USB hub. The position of the car is transmitted to the taxi central server. Using push-to-talk the driver can call the central. Voice is VoIP. Using push-to-talk the central can broadcast to all drivers. Voice is VoIP. The position of the free taxis is public including the direct phone number of the car. It can be seen on a webpage, but can also easily be downloaded via XML. You can select that you only want to see cars close to a certain position. If a customer is looking for a free car, he will download the list of free cars close to his GPS position. The cars will be displayed on a map with an arrow indicating which way the car is heading. By clicking on the car a customer will call the direct phone of the car and can arrange for pickup. The GPS position of the customer can be transmitted directly to the car for easy locating the customer. When the customer is in the taxi the driver will mark the taxi as occupied. The position will still be reported to the central server, but will no longer be published. The customer will tell the destination which will be put into the Neo using map and spelling. E.g. spell substrings of the street and all streets matching all the substrings will be shown on either a map or a selection list. The correct street can be selected. The Neo will give directions and give ETA. It will also give an estimated price and the actual price. When arrived at the destination a receipt is printed on the USB printer. The customer can pay by credit card (using the credit card reader) or by his mobile phone. Data are sent encrypted via the Internet. When the taxi is driving it will record road conditions and report these, so the navigation planner in other taxis will be updated. /Ole -- http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ideas/TaxiHireSystem ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AGPS closed source drivers = DRM for public data
On Wednesday 27 December 2006 15:26, Marcus Bauer wrote: > > Considering that we have an userland application that drives the chip, > > shouldn't it be relatively straight forward to reverse engineer the > > protocol? > That takes time and with every new version of the phone the game starts > all over. Closed source driver have always been a pain on Linux and > still are. It's not a real driver, it's userland daemon. It should work across different versions of the kernel for all I understand. > As FIC is planning to buy 100.000 of the chips per month they have > enough buying power to communicate to GL that open specs are indeed a > selling point. One would hope so, yes. > As the open source community supports FIC, so can do FIC in return. We > just need to push them a little bit. I hope there's no need for that. Considering the stance they've taken on WiFi (which is, in some way, even more extreme), they'll annoy A LOT of people if don't take the same stance on the GPS. pgp2X4VS1KnzV.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AGPS closed source drivers = DRM for public data
On Wed, 2006-12-27 at 14:14 +0100, Gabriel Ambuehl wrote: > Considering that we have an userland application that drives the chip, > shouldn't it be relatively straight forward to reverse engineer the protocol? That takes time and with every new version of the phone the game starts all over. Closed source driver have always been a pain on Linux and still are. > But of course it would be better if Global Locate would simply provide it... Global Locate is certainly afraid of patent infringement. The market leader SiRF holds lots of patents around gps chipsets and regularly sues other chipmakers. And just by chance it happens that they sued Global Locate the other day. On the 18th of December to be exact. Most likely this battle will be settled by Global Locate paying license fees to SiRF. Global Locate should just make sure that the deal includes the communication/protocol with the chip. But the will only do so if the market demands for that. As FIC is planning to buy 100.000 of the chips per month they have enough buying power to communicate to GL that open specs are indeed a selling point. As the open source community supports FIC, so can do FIC in return. We just need to push them a little bit. Marcus ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AGPS closed source drivers = DRM for public data
Am Mittwoch, 27. Dezember 2006 14:14 schrieb Gabriel Ambuehl: > > Considering that we have an userland application that drives the chip, > shouldn't it be relatively straight forward to reverse engineer the > protocol? > The daemon will listen on a serial port, so it is easy to redirect the data. Oleg. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AGPS closed source drivers = DRM for public data
On Wednesday 27 December 2006 13:44, Marcus Bauer wrote: > It is a question of community pressure to get FIC either using a > different chip or to get Global Locate to open the protocol specs. > > The good thing is that Sean is an all pro open guy :) > Considering that we have an userland application that drives the chip, shouldn't it be relatively straight forward to reverse engineer the protocol? After all, the kernel could easily log what the daemon does. That should easily fall under clean room reverse engineering and thus be legal. But of course it would be better if Global Locate would simply provide it... pgp7hP5coAxzC.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AGPS or: Global Locate's Marketing debunked
I think Roberto is totally right here. I'm just a simple user who happens to also be a geek. Even though some people might not see it this way, but design and hardware specifications matter to the enduser. And that again matters whether FIC will continue supporting the platform. - vinh On 12/27/06, roberto previdi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You are right, and i am sorry if my email started a bad flame.. But my point of view is that it was really time that the opensource idea came to the ultra closed phone market, and i really would like to see openmoko grow. But a good software on a bad hardware could be a big mistake for the very life of the project.. Developers could be demoralized by seeing little feedback to their efforts and the community could loose at least some of its potential.. If for example i was the marketing manager of a commercial software house for the phone market i would encourage the developing of the first opensource initiative over a loosy hardware platform, because the failing of it would probably mean the failing of all the open project, and of consequence the grow for my software. just my opinion and sorry for the bad english.. Roberto - Original Message From: Richard Franks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: OpenMoko Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 10:54:34 AM Subject: Re: AGPS or: Global Locate's Marketing debunked Did I miss something, or are tempers actually flaring here? It's a phone, folks. But let us not make things more difficult and ugly by being immature and throwing around phrases like "arrogant jerks", and antagonising the very companies working with FIC on this project in the first place. I don't see how that can be constructive. The airing of grievances has concluded, Happy Festivus! ;-) Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AGPS closed source drivers = DRM for public data
On Wed, 2006-12-27 at 09:54 +, Richard Franks wrote: > But let us not make things more difficult and ugly by antagonising > the very companies working with FIC on this project in the first > place. I don't see how that can be constructive. Global Locate is actually creating RIAA's and MPAA's dream of a DRM: they prevent you from getting publicly and freely available ephemeris data (and that is what A-GPS means) into the chip. They want to lock-in the users of their chips into their "OMA SUPL" AGPS servers. They deny you the right to use your own solution. Closed source drivers are a nuissance on an open platform especially when open alternatives do exist. It is a question of community pressure to get FIC either using a different chip or to get Global Locate to open the protocol specs. The good thing is that Sean is an all pro open guy :) Marcus ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AGPS or: Global Locate's Marketing debunked
You are right, and i am sorry if my email started a bad flame.. But my point of view is that it was really time that the opensource idea came to the ultra closed phone market, and i really would like to see openmoko grow. But a good software on a bad hardware could be a big mistake for the very life of the project.. Developers could be demoralized by seeing little feedback to their efforts and the community could loose at least some of its potential.. If for example i was the marketing manager of a commercial software house for the phone market i would encourage the developing of the first opensource initiative over a loosy hardware platform, because the failing of it would probably mean the failing of all the open project, and of consequence the grow for my software. just my opinion and sorry for the bad english.. Roberto - Original Message From: Richard Franks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: OpenMoko Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 10:54:34 AM Subject: Re: AGPS or: Global Locate's Marketing debunked Did I miss something, or are tempers actually flaring here? It's a phone, folks. But let us not make things more difficult and ugly by being immature and throwing around phrases like "arrogant jerks", and antagonising the very companies working with FIC on this project in the first place. I don't see how that can be constructive. The airing of grievances has concluded, Happy Festivus! ;-) Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Regarding hardware specs...
Having everything is good but impossible. But still I'd like to add one wishlist item. I'm interested in using pda-like gadgets with only one hand, and without having to touch the screen. This is optimal e.g. when reading while in metro. Unfortunately this is going to be hard when there are only 2 buttons. At least 3 are needed (2 for scrolling up/down, and one for generic 'action'). Or a wheel + >=1 buttons. Any chance to have a scrool wheel and/or more buttons (e.g. a joystick-like control that actually is equal to 4 or 5 buttons)? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Survey of WiFi vendors Opensource Relations
http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/293/ Atmel,Ralink and Realtek seem pretty open about open source platforms. Atmel especially seems very interested in embedded system design wins and so does Realtek. pgp9zqEs3VHtG.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AGPS or: Global Locate's Marketing debunked
Did I miss something, or are tempers actually flaring here? It's a phone, folks. But let us not make things more difficult and ugly by being immature and throwing around phrases like "arrogant jerks", and antagonising the very companies working with FIC on this project in the first place. I don't see how that can be constructive. The airing of grievances has concluded, Happy Festivus! ;-) Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
