Re: Finger Graffiti
Jay Vaughan wrote: >> Michael Welter writes: >>> So, who are they going to sue??? >> Who said anything about a lawsuit? It is their trademark; stepping on >> it would be really rude, no matter who they decided to go after as a >> result. >> > > Ah cripes, who freaking *CARES* about the Graffiti trademark .. Hmm ... someone could just as well say: "Ah cripes, who freaking *CARES* about the OpenMoko trademark .." Doesn't sound so good when you say it that way, does it? The thing about trademarks is that if you don't defend them, then you loose them. Note that David didn't accuse anyone of breaching trademark rights, he simply pointed out that OpenMoko (or anyone else for that matter other than the trademark holder) should be careful not to release any software package with the trademarked term "Graffiti" in it's name. And he said he would only say it once, so as not to annoy people by continually harping on it. Don't forget that OpenMoko is a company too. You can't favour and protect one companies trademarks and not do the same for another. -- Rod ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
I think David went about it as well as he could.. although I feel by using
"Graffiti-like" Nkoli did not breach trademark rights, just used it as an
example. We do need to come up with another name in the near future,
because we cannot release software called Graffiti.
I know most of us are completely against trademarks and patents, but no need
to shoot the messenger. As Jay said, let's focus on the ideas, and just
watch the terminology...
Kyle
On 7/30/07, Jay Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Michael Welter writes:
> >> So, who are they going to sue???
> > Who said anything about a lawsuit? It is their trademark; stepping on
> > it would be really rude, no matter who they decided to go after as a
> > result.
> >
>
> Ah cripes, who freaking *CARES* about the Graffiti trademark .. can't
> you just overlook this highly dubious legal issue for now and try to
> understand the nature of the point the guy is trying to make - that
> he would like developers to consider adding a symbol-based
> recognition system that would be based on finger movements - and
> leave all the high-falutin' {annoyin'} lawyerin' for the birds ..
>
> Honest, you lawyer types are a pain in the ass. Nobody needs your
> advice until there's actually something tangible going on. Right
> now, this is just a *technical* discussion, and its getting killed by
> non-sequitur snipes from highly irrelevant positions. Leave it out.
> Lets try to allow a little creativity, still, in the world, okay?
>
> ;
>
> ___
> OpenMoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
___
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Re: OpenMoko future.
On Jul 30, 2007, at 4:28 AM, Mark Arvidson wrote: Freeing the phone to be a platform, not just a crude, limited tool is where this project needs to go. It may seem like a slow couple of years before this really infects our entire culture, but I think it's inevitable now. For example, I'm getting an OpenMoko *solely* for the purposes of putting music-creativity applications on it and using it as a portable music machine. The cell phone angle is only going to be interesting to me if its a means of doing a remix, which based on the technical discussions so far, seems quite feasible. ; ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
Michael Welter writes:
So, who are they going to sue???
Who said anything about a lawsuit? It is their trademark; stepping on
it would be really rude, no matter who they decided to go after as a
result.
Ah cripes, who freaking *CARES* about the Graffiti trademark .. can't
you just overlook this highly dubious legal issue for now and try to
understand the nature of the point the guy is trying to make - that
he would like developers to consider adding a symbol-based
recognition system that would be based on finger movements - and
leave all the high-falutin' {annoyin'} lawyerin' for the birds ..
Honest, you lawyer types are a pain in the ass. Nobody needs your
advice until there's actually something tangible going on. Right
now, this is just a *technical* discussion, and its getting killed by
non-sequitur snipes from highly irrelevant positions. Leave it out.
Lets try to allow a little creativity, still, in the world, okay?
;
___
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Re: Finger Graffiti
On 7/29/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I don't think your finger will slide around the screen easily enough > to make it work. Even if it does it will leave lots of smears on the > screen. Also I don't see that typing is any slower than graffiti if > the keyboard is well designed. I just hate using handwriting > recognition, I've used it on Palm, Windows Mobile and use it now on > my Nintendo DS. > > If you're like me and don't write on paper all that much you get > irritated with having to write very perfectly on such devices, I'd > also say typing uses less effort and you won't get finger/joint ache > if you use it a lot. > > I think the major problem with small screen size and text entry is > seeing the screen with your finger in the way. Yeah, early onset finger arthritis could be an unpleasant side effect. As for the screen, it will have smears already from regular use.. which might actually help with easier sliding. I also find handwriting recognition software quite painful to use, but in conjunction with a smart dictionary to compensate for similar characters (ie recognize that strokes for 9re9t should really be interpreted as great and replace on the fly), the experience might be improved. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
Nkoli writes: > >Quikwriting's different-but-easier alphabet implementation is quite >interesting and may be the best way to get good handwriting recognition. I >was thinking handwriting recognition that can be used with fingers because >of all the interest in finger based apps, since most people won't carry >their styli around if the majority of apps are finger based. The first thing I'll be doing with my NEO (let's see... UPS shows it as having been in transit from Albuquerque to here -- about 225 miles -- since Friday. Should be in my hot little hands tomorrow. UPS comes by my house about 7:00 PM...) is making sure it boots. I'm not quite sure what the second thing is going to be, but rigging something to hold a much-less-elaborate stylus is very, very high on the list. I'd be delighted to be proved wrong, but I just can't see finger applications having the same utiity as the stylus applications I'm used to. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
On 7/29/07, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Michael Welter writes: > >So, who are they going to sue??? > > Who said anything about a lawsuit? It is their trademark; stepping on > it would be really rude, no matter who they decided to go after as a > result. Interface would be Graffiti-like (I used upper and lowercase G to denote trademark and such as Giles mentioned). The name would certainly have nothing to do with Graffiti. The words finger + graffiti just happens to be the simplest combination to define what I had in mind. Quikwriting's different-but-easier alphabet implementation is quite interesting and may be the best way to get good handwriting recognition. I was thinking handwriting recognition that can be used with fingers because of all the interest in finger based apps, since most people won't carry their styli around if the majority of apps are finger based. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko future.
I disagree. I see smartphones on nearly everybody. Today, I was at a party, and nearly everyone there had smartphones. Mommies, engineers and teachers. The key is to make the system easy to use for wide acceptance. Look at the iPod. Stoopid easy to use, but very, very popular. The iPhone takes it too far, taking away functionality in favor of ease of use. The OM can quickly get to a point where it's stable and anybody can use it for common tasks. That's all it needs. The cool point is that it can also be open, so the fix/improve rate will rapidly outstrip closed phones. If the ipkg interface is smooth enough, people will start downloading apps to their phones. Right now they do this through proprietary connected sources. Imagine how quickly viral apps will spread when people get the idea they are allowed to download new stuff to their phones. Freeing the phone to be a platform, not just a crude, limited tool is where this project needs to go. It may seem like a slow couple of years before this really infects our entire culture, but I think it's inevitable now. OM can lead the way. --sagacis On 7/29/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On 29 Jul 2007, at 22:58, Lars Hallberg wrote: > > > > > >> One important point is reputation. If openmoko is known to be a > >> geek phone no one else will get interested in it. > > > > And exactly that will happen if it is pushed to the masses while > > not really good enough for the masses. Personally I think we will > > have something autumn 2008 or possibly even spring 2008... > > > > Geeks and techies buy smartphones. other people buy a phone that is > just a phone and have no need for applications on their phone. > > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Finger Graffiti
>So, who are they going to sue??? Nobody. Having a trademark means defending it in instances where it's used in ways that the holder didn't intend, and I've pointed out that this _is_ one of those instances. I don't intend to continue pointing it out if people persist, but I think I've done my part to indicate that, for example, shipping a handwriting-related module with a name that approximated "Graffiti" would be inconvenient, because we very likely _would_ have to stop that. Just sayin'. Please let's remember that open source rests on a foundation of intellectual property law: without, for example, copyright, there would be no way to enforce the GPL. Using open source and the like fairly means that you expect people to respect your wishes about your intellectual property, so it behooves you to respect the wishes of others... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Real Time Audio (SCHED_FIFO)
Esben > How?. As long as you only transport audio from the microphone to the > gsmd, you're screwed without real time transport that isn't the best example since the gsm module is hardwired to the codec which is wired to the mic. This audio path doesn't touch the cpu. There are still be some needs for low latency, like recording a gsm call but even that isn't between two audio clients... the recorder would probably be talking to the pulse daemon which is going right to the kernel alsa interface for the codec. Brad ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
Michael Welter writes: >So, who are they going to sue??? Who said anything about a lawsuit? It is their trademark; stepping on it would be really rude, no matter who they decided to go after as a result. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
On 30 Jul 2007, at 01:38, David Lefty Schlesinger wrote: Graffiti (as it pertains to handwriting systems) is a registered trademark of ACCESS Systems Americas, not a generic term; you want to find some alternate terminology. Sorry, gotta point it out, it's part of my job... It's a dictionary word and if used in lowercase (without a capital G) then it isn't being referred to as a trademark. We have referred to many brand names in discussions and nobody else has popped up to remind us that it's a trademark of theirs. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
"David \"Lefty\" Schlesinger" writes: >Graffiti (as it pertains to handwriting systems) is a registered >trademark of ACCESS Systems Americas, not a generic term; you want to >find some alternate terminology. > >Sorry, gotta point it out, it's part of my job... Much as I've liked Graffiti on my Palm... The technology I'm interested in pursuing on this device is Quikwriting. Really looks like a best-of-both-worlds to me. http://mrl.nyu.edu/projects/quikwriting/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
So, who are they going to sue??? Giles Jones wrote: On 30 Jul 2007, at 00:49, Nkoli wrote: So, there I was pretending my phone has a touchscreen while I wait for GTA02 when this idea popped into my head for a keyboard alternative. I would very much like to hear thoughts. The design would remove the onscreen keyboard completely and replace it with a Graffiti-like interface that can recognize something as wide as a finger or as tiny as a stylus. A couple of icons for a symbols list and other essentials that the user may not want to write out (ex www., .com or greek letters) will be all that's left of the keyboard. For the sake of minimalism, the entire screen, excluding the very top or bottom where the icons are, will be used as the input area. The app should be activated or deactivated with one touch just like the current keyboard. It would have to have some excellent text recognition as well as a built in dictionary to suggest words, which should make up for any holes in the text recognition. Also, a find as you write feature will be handy for finding folders in the main menu, names in the contact list or numbers in the logs, basically reducing scrolling through areas that aren't primarily text based. The benefits of this finger graffiti are that it has a learning curve of zero, eliminates hunting and pecking so anyone can write quickly without needing to get used to the onscreen keyboard. Oh yeah, it's as fast as you can move your fingers and it can easily be done one handed. I have little experience with programming and I hardly do more than write little time saving scripts nowadays, so I honestly have no concept of what such an app would take. What d'you guys think? I don't think your finger will slide around the screen easily enough to make it work. Even if it does it will leave lots of smears on the screen. Also I don't see that typing is any slower than graffiti if the keyboard is well designed. I just hate using handwriting recognition, I've used it on Palm, Windows Mobile and use it now on my Nintendo DS. If you're like me and don't write on paper all that much you get irritated with having to write very perfectly on such devices, I'd also say typing uses less effort and you won't get finger/joint ache if you use it a lot. I think the major problem with small screen size and text entry is seeing the screen with your finger in the way. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Michael Welter Telecom Matters Corp. Denver, Colorado US +1.303.414.4980 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.TelecomMatters.net ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: another GPS idea - speed-sensitive voicemail
> Anyway, I am thinking there might be many uses for speed-based > settings--enough to justify a speed-based 'cron' like utility? Perhaps... Yeah, you could generalize "run-things-when" to time - cron ground-speed - this thing place - location-based-services This suggests that altitude might be something to check as well, though as someone else pointed out that's a little late to enable flight mode :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Board only option in October?
On Sun, Jul 29, 2007 at 03:07:44PM -0400, Kyle Bassett wrote: > Harald, > > I am curious, what do you estimate the cost (as a percentage or dollar > amount) that the GTA02 board "kit" would run compared to the expected $450 > base price? I do prefer your idea about selling the GTA01Bv4 instead of > upgrading...some people would just rather do it themselves...bragging > rights? ;) I'd expect that upgrade kit would have to be at least 350USD. So as long as you can sell the GTA01 for more than 100USD, it should be better to do so. Also, given the low quantities we run at this time, it would really hurt us to see that many GTA01 going to the junkyard. If the old ones get sold, we increase the population of Neo's. If we take them apart and re-use, we don't get more devices deployed.. -- - Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
Graffiti (as it pertains to handwriting systems) is a registered trademark of ACCESS Systems Americas, not a generic term; you want to find some alternate terminology. Sorry, gotta point it out, it's part of my job... Nkoli wrote: > So, there I was pretending my phone has a touchscreen while I wait for > GTA02 when this idea popped into my head for a keyboard alternative. I > would very much like to hear thoughts. The design would remove the > onscreen keyboard completely and replace it with a Graffiti-like > interface that can recognize something as wide as a finger or as tiny > as a stylus. A couple of icons for a symbols list and other essentials > that the user may not want to write out (ex www., .com or greek > letters) will be all that's left of the keyboard. For the sake of > minimalism, the entire screen, excluding the very top or bottom where > the icons are, will be used as the input area. The app should be > activated or deactivated with one touch just like the current > keyboard. It would have to have some excellent text recognition as > well as a built in dictionary to suggest words, which should make up > for any holes in the text recognition. Also, a find as you write > feature will be handy for finding folders in the main menu, names in > the contact list or numbers in the logs, basically reducing scrolling > through areas that aren't primarily text based. The benefits of this > finger graffiti are that it has a learning curve of zero, eliminates > hunting and pecking so anyone can write quickly without needing to get > used to the onscreen keyboard. Oh yeah, it's as fast as you can move > your fingers and it can easily be done one handed. I have little > experience with programming and I hardly do more than write little > time saving scripts nowadays, so I honestly have no concept of what > such an app would take. What d'you guys think? > > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
On 30 Jul 2007, at 00:49, Nkoli wrote: So, there I was pretending my phone has a touchscreen while I wait for GTA02 when this idea popped into my head for a keyboard alternative. I would very much like to hear thoughts. The design would remove the onscreen keyboard completely and replace it with a Graffiti-like interface that can recognize something as wide as a finger or as tiny as a stylus. A couple of icons for a symbols list and other essentials that the user may not want to write out (ex www., .com or greek letters) will be all that's left of the keyboard. For the sake of minimalism, the entire screen, excluding the very top or bottom where the icons are, will be used as the input area. The app should be activated or deactivated with one touch just like the current keyboard. It would have to have some excellent text recognition as well as a built in dictionary to suggest words, which should make up for any holes in the text recognition. Also, a find as you write feature will be handy for finding folders in the main menu, names in the contact list or numbers in the logs, basically reducing scrolling through areas that aren't primarily text based. The benefits of this finger graffiti are that it has a learning curve of zero, eliminates hunting and pecking so anyone can write quickly without needing to get used to the onscreen keyboard. Oh yeah, it's as fast as you can move your fingers and it can easily be done one handed. I have little experience with programming and I hardly do more than write little time saving scripts nowadays, so I honestly have no concept of what such an app would take. What d'you guys think? I don't think your finger will slide around the screen easily enough to make it work. Even if it does it will leave lots of smears on the screen. Also I don't see that typing is any slower than graffiti if the keyboard is well designed. I just hate using handwriting recognition, I've used it on Palm, Windows Mobile and use it now on my Nintendo DS. If you're like me and don't write on paper all that much you get irritated with having to write very perfectly on such devices, I'd also say typing uses less effort and you won't get finger/joint ache if you use it a lot. I think the major problem with small screen size and text entry is seeing the screen with your finger in the way. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Finger Graffiti
So, there I was pretending my phone has a touchscreen while I wait for GTA02 when this idea popped into my head for a keyboard alternative. I would very much like to hear thoughts. The design would remove the onscreen keyboard completely and replace it with a Graffiti-like interface that can recognize something as wide as a finger or as tiny as a stylus. A couple of icons for a symbols list and other essentials that the user may not want to write out (ex www., .com or greek letters) will be all that's left of the keyboard. For the sake of minimalism, the entire screen, excluding the very top or bottom where the icons are, will be used as the input area. The app should be activated or deactivated with one touch just like the current keyboard. It would have to have some excellent text recognition as well as a built in dictionary to suggest words, which should make up for any holes in the text recognition. Also, a find as you write feature will be handy for finding folders in the main menu, names in the contact list or numbers in the logs, basically reducing scrolling through areas that aren't primarily text based. The benefits of this finger graffiti are that it has a learning curve of zero, eliminates hunting and pecking so anyone can write quickly without needing to get used to the onscreen keyboard. Oh yeah, it's as fast as you can move your fingers and it can easily be done one handed. I have little experience with programming and I hardly do more than write little time saving scripts nowadays, so I honestly have no concept of what such an app would take. What d'you guys think? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Real Time Audio (SCHED_FIFO)
Jeff Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Actually it depends on how much mixing you're doing. How?. As long as you only transport audio from the microphone to the gsmd, you're screwed without real time transport. > At the hardware interface they are using ALSA. Yeah, same as pulseaudio, but it doesn't mean much when the pipe from one place to another is not running with proper scheduling and priority. > Above ALSA, the default sound server for OpenMoko is PulseAudio, a > very good audio server. It has features to support low-latency and > realtime response. Yeah, but there is no support for low latency and real time transport of audio between applications, so it doesn't help much that pulseaudio does this. If there is no reliable way to transport audio, then you will have drop outs of audio under system load. Heavy buffering is also not an option. -- Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko future.
On 29 Jul 2007, at 22:58, Lars Hallberg wrote: One important point is reputation. If openmoko is known to be a geek phone no one else will get interested in it. And exactly that will happen if it is pushed to the masses while not really good enough for the masses. Personally I think we will have something autumn 2008 or possibly even spring 2008... Geeks and techies buy smartphones. other people buy a phone that is just a phone and have no need for applications on their phone. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko future.
Sébastien Lorquet skrev: (This is a suite to laforge's message on gsmd-devel) hello, I'm a little disappointed about laforge's message :( Made me happy... I'm been a little worried by the expectation to sell 100 of thousand or even millions of units from the start. If they happy with geek sail then we geeks will get the time... whether it takes a half year or tree years... to make the OpenMoko platform and apps realy rock! That increase the likelihood of eventual word domination :-) While OpenMoko core team have to make a UI and framework good enough for geeks, that's the main aria where experimentation is needed so it can evolve into something that really rocks. Targetting geeks only will never help to make OpenMoko known. No, not outside the (pretty big) geek scene... but it makes it ready for being known :-) One important point is reputation. If openmoko is known to be a geek phone no one else will get interested in it. And exactly that will happen if it is pushed to the masses while not really good enough for the masses. Personally I think we will have something autumn 2008 or possibly even spring 2008... /LaH ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G plans
fwiw there's an item in the wishlist for 3g http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Hardware#Faster.2Fbetter_mobile_connectivity. I doubt it has been edited by anyone with any inside info though. EDGE really should be a no-brainer but UMTS/HSDPA will likely have to be pulled off in two or three models. That's too bad since the neo could probably deliver decent data rates as a bluetooth modem (certainly better than pocketpc does). Brad ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Idea for future product...
On 7/29/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Maybe you would be better with a Linux PDA with CF slot? since you > could get one now and start using it. Actually this idea wasn't for me (I've got a GSM account -- t-mobile), just thinking of ways to make a neo available to more users. Also, the main problem with using a PDA with a CF phone card is form factor and power management -- they usually don't provide a method of keeping the CF card powered on and ready to accept incomming calls while the PDA itself is in sleep mode. And it's hard to get a pda into a belt clip like a phone (plus no viberate alert mode, etc). If these issues can be resolved with a phone device that uses the CF card for its cell module, then it may be a good solution. BTW, According to Sprint's info page on their CF card, it works with the Sharp Zaurus so apparently it is already Linux friendly. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shippped!
2007/7/29, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Krzysztof Kajkowski writes: > >Ugh! Mine is stopped for two days now in Louisville, KY and it waits > >for something (don't know what)... I'm in Poland. > > Actually stopped in Louisville, or in transit to Louisville? LOUISVILLE, KY, US 07/27/2007 12:48 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN So I guess it's like Nikolaus says - packages are not sent or moved at the end of the week. cayco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G plans
I see no mention of GTA03 (2.5G/EDGE?), GTX01/02 (3G?) on the official wiki anymore. http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter&redirect=no#Other_future_devices Another: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8 I would rather take Quadband EDGE and UMA hardware over 3G as it is going to become difficult as carriers in the US and around the world deploy 3G on different bands e.g. only AWS 3G for US Tmobile. http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/aws/index.php?p=b Derek Potts wrote: What are the current plans for 3G for the Neo? I'm curious about the ETA of a 3G model, as well as a potential upgrade path to 3G for a 2.5G Neo. Concerning the arrival of 3G hardware: I found a couple of references that claim that the Neo will have 3G in 2008. Can anyone substantiate these claims and maybe even give us a more accurate ETA? - http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201000323 - http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=9531007&fsrc=RSS Concerning the upgrade possibilities: Has the Neo phase 2 been designed to accommodate an upgrade to 3G in some fashion? Even if the main board had to be replaced but some of the other modules, like the wifi for example, could be retained, that would be a better option than having to buy an entire new phone. Thanks! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Idea for future product...
Anyone seeing a USB/CF solution? eh? On 7/29/07, Derek Pressnall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I was thinking of an idea for those who only have the option to use a > non-gsm phone (i.e., US-based Sprint/Verizon customers). These > carriers will only activate devices they sell, but there is a way > around it. Most of them market a compact-flash data card which also > has voice capabilitie, intended for use with a PDA. So, what if a > future Neo had a CF slot instead of a gsm module? Then you can get > the carrier's CF data/voice card, and plug it in similar to how you > would use a sim card. > > Any thoughts? > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shippped!
Krzysztof Kajkowski writes: >Ugh! Mine is stopped for two days now in Louisville, KY and it waits >for something (don't know what)... I'm in Poland. Actually stopped in Louisville, or in transit to Louisville? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Idea for future product...
On 29 Jul 2007, at 20:50, Derek Pressnall wrote: I was thinking of an idea for those who only have the option to use a non-gsm phone (i.e., US-based Sprint/Verizon customers). These carriers will only activate devices they sell, but there is a way around it. Most of them market a compact-flash data card which also has voice capabilitie, intended for use with a PDA. So, what if a future Neo had a CF slot instead of a gsm module? Then you can get the carrier's CF data/voice card, and plug it in similar to how you would use a sim card. Any thoughts? It all depends if drivers exist or can be written for it. Compactflash is quite a big card format. I like it since my SLR cameras use it, but it's not common on PDAs anymore for size reasons. Maybe you would be better with a Linux PDA with CF slot? since you could get one now and start using it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea for future product...
I was thinking of an idea for those who only have the option to use a non-gsm phone (i.e., US-based Sprint/Verizon customers). These carriers will only activate devices they sell, but there is a way around it. Most of them market a compact-flash data card which also has voice capabilitie, intended for use with a PDA. So, what if a future Neo had a CF slot instead of a gsm module? Then you can get the carrier's CF data/voice card, and plug it in similar to how you would use a sim card. Any thoughts? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Board only option in October?
...the reason being is that the retail base kit comes with more than just the phone (battery, headset, cards, etc.). If all the other factors were eliminated, what would the final cost be? I don't believe it being as simple as $450-50. On 7/29/07, Kyle Bassett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I read what Harald wrote, I wanted to know a few more details than just > the base price minus the cost of the screen... > > thanks > > On 7/29/07, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Harald wrote: > > > > > So you probably wouldn't save more than USD 50 (maximum) that way. > > > And > > > for that, you have all the risk of some assembly problem? > > > > So, 450 - 50 USD = 400 USD for a kit... > > > > Am 29.07.2007 um 21:07 schrieb Kyle Bassett: > > > > > I am curious, what do you estimate the cost (as a percentage or > > > dollar amount) that the GTA02 board "kit" would run compared to the > > > expected $450 base price? I do prefer your idea about selling the > > > GTA01Bv4 instead of upgrading...some people would just rather do it > > > themselves...bragging rights? ;) > > > > > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Board only option in October?
I read what Harald wrote, I wanted to know a few more details than just the base price minus the cost of the screen... thanks On 7/29/07, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Harald wrote: > > > So you probably wouldn't save more than USD 50 (maximum) that way. > > And > > for that, you have all the risk of some assembly problem? > > So, 450 - 50 USD = 400 USD for a kit... > > Am 29.07.2007 um 21:07 schrieb Kyle Bassett: > > > I am curious, what do you estimate the cost (as a percentage or > > dollar amount) that the GTA02 board "kit" would run compared to the > > expected $450 base price? I do prefer your idea about selling the > > GTA01Bv4 instead of upgrading...some people would just rather do it > > themselves...bragging rights? ;) > > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: another GPS idea - speed-sensitive voicemail
Mark, I love the idea! And maybe a feature like dumping the call to a BT headset device if present. I am curious, I assume there would be a config option or something, because how would it tell if you are the driver? A preference per contact could be used as well. ie. I don't mind if my family calls me while driving, but not Joe, Bob, or Steve." *I hate the fact that I cannot download or save my voicemail messages... I cannot with Verizon anyways. Developing a voicemail utility to save a voicemail locally when service is available but you are just ignoring calls would be quite nice.The ability to start recording at any time during a conversation could be useful as well. -Kyle On 7/28/07, Mark Eichin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Use case: > > When I'm walking around, I'll answer the phone. When I'm driving, I > won't (one phonecall == two beers worth of distraction)... but am > willing to pull over if the caller thinks it's important enough. > > I shouldn't have to *tell* the phone what mode I'm in: GPS can > provide velocity information. If my speed is over 10mph, the phone > should pick up, dump a pre-recorded explanation to the caller, and > let them "press 1 to interrupt the driver, or just wait a few > seconds and leave voicemail." > > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem implies that > call recording is possible, so the audio paths are there, right? If > so, a lot of local voice-robot stuff is possible... > > (And if your thought is "what if I'm a passenger" - the answer is > "this feature is not for you, it's for me" :-) (Also, if you're not > an American, this feature probably isn't for you either :-) :-) > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Board only option in October?
Harald wrote: So you probably wouldn't save more than USD 50 (maximum) that way. And for that, you have all the risk of some assembly problem? So, 450 - 50 USD = 400 USD for a kit... Am 29.07.2007 um 21:07 schrieb Kyle Bassett: I am curious, what do you estimate the cost (as a percentage or dollar amount) that the GTA02 board "kit" would run compared to the expected $450 base price? I do prefer your idea about selling the GTA01Bv4 instead of upgrading...some people would just rather do it themselves...bragging rights? ;) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
3G plans
What are the current plans for 3G for the Neo? I'm curious about the ETA of a 3G model, as well as a potential upgrade path to 3G for a 2.5G Neo. Concerning the arrival of 3G hardware: I found a couple of references that claim that the Neo will have 3G in 2008. Can anyone substantiate these claims and maybe even give us a more accurate ETA? - http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201000323 - http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=9531007&fsrc=RSS Concerning the upgrade possibilities: Has the Neo phase 2 been designed to accommodate an upgrade to 3G in some fashion? Even if the main board had to be replaced but some of the other modules, like the wifi for example, could be retained, that would be a better option than having to buy an entire new phone. Thanks! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Board only option in October?
Harald, I am curious, what do you estimate the cost (as a percentage or dollar amount) that the GTA02 board "kit" would run compared to the expected $450 base price? I do prefer your idea about selling the GTA01Bv4 instead of upgrading...some people would just rather do it themselves...bragging rights? ;) Thanks Kyle On 7/29/07, Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 09, 2007 at 10:12:47AM +0100, Cass, John P wrote: > > I have a question before I go ahead and order my Neo - there was an > > earlier discussion about the possibility of getting a GTA02 board in > > October so we can upgrade our Neos to 02 without having to buy a whole > > new phone (call it the Philosopher's Neo). > > The issue is a bit more difficult. As of now, the 'board kit' would > have to be: > > 1) the mainboard, including the stacked wifi PCB and the bluetooth FPC > 2) the translucent buttons (otherwise you won't see the new much- >requested LED's) > 3) adhesive rubber between LCM and PCB > 4) new plastic inset (speaker assembly) > 5) adhesive shielding tape for LCM-PCB cable > > Even then, the assembly steps are not exactly trivial, since you > * need to remove the LCM from the PCB. This is glued, and it is quite > hard to remove without damaging the LCM, especially the very fragile > FPC cable between LCM and PCB > * need to remove the current white plastic stereo speaker compartment > and replace it with the new mono speaker compartment (we had to find > space for the wifi somewhere...) > > Yes, you could keep the GPS antenna, the plastic case and the LCM. But > seriously, if you consider the amount of effort that we have to spend on > creating a detailed step-by-step guide with photographs on the assembly > process, plus the inevitable amount of customer support with people who > think they'd get it done but now can't manage (or actually broke one or > both of the devices now), I'm not really sure if it makes all that much > sense. > > In the end, all you keep is the LCM. Yes, it is an expensive LCM. But > in the overall picture, that 'mainboard kit' would only be > insignificantly cheaper than the full GTA02 device. Oh yes, the case. > Which costs close to nothing, and your old case might already have some > scratches at GTA02 release time ;) > > So you probably wouldn't save more than USD 50 (maximum) that way. And > for that, you have all the risk of some assembly problem? > > Thus, my personal conclusion: Isn't it much better to keep the old GTA01 > and sell it to somebody who can't afford a GTA02? > > So I don't think we'll have an official upgrade kit. > > We will start selling spare parts at some point, though. The schedule > is still somewhat unclear. Maybe there is a chance you can combine your > kit out of spare parts. But still, I don't think it makes much sense. > > Sorry, > -- > - Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > http://openmoko.org/ > > > Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shippped!
Ugh! Mine is stopped for two days now in Louisville, KY and it waits for something (don't know what)... I'm in Poland. cayco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shippped!
Thomas Gstädtner wrote: The same here, should be the same way. 26. picked up, 28. arrived in cologne, 30. arrival at dest. The same for Italy: waiting for clearance, expected in Rome by tuesday... ;-) Keeping fingers crossed... -- Stefano Sanna - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personal web site: http://www.gerdavax.it AIM: gerdavax - Skype: gerdavax - Callsign: IS0DZE ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shippped!
The same here, should be the same way. 26. picked up, 28. arrived in cologne, 30. arrival at dest. 2007/7/28, Alex Riesen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > #2001: shipped to Germany (and according to UPS is awaiting customs > clearance)! Seem to have taken only 2 days: 27 left US, 28 july was in > Germany, Cologne, waiting for customs. Waiting for the local post > office now... > > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G sim cards
So does this mean Cingualr is moving to proprietary SIMS? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: another GPS idea - speed-sensitive voicemail
In order to tether my Mac laptop to my GSM RAZR, I had to download a script from http://home2.btconnect.com/Taniwha/. The script was for GPRS, but I noticed there was also a script for GSM analog. I assume this modem connection would be between the phone and the base station, so that probably wouldn't do us any good. Ian Stirling wrote: Shachar Shemesh wrote: Michael Welter wrote: You're confusing GSM (Global Systems Mobile) with the gsm codec in Asterisk. I find that highly likely. I'm pretty new to Asterisk. They have different meanings. The codecs used by your mobile phone are not the same as the gsm codec in Asterisk. But it does use some codec. Even if it's not the same one, there is a piece of software that can decompress it, and you can (probably) store pre-compressed message you just want to dump on the line. I realize this cannot be done due to licensing and other considerations. I'm just saying that the details may be wrong, but the principle stands. No, you can't. Because the modem does not give you the compressed data. It gives you an analog output. There is no way (published) to make it send out compressed data. -- Michael Welter Telecom Matters Corp. Denver, Colorado US +1.303.414.4980 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.TelecomMatters.net ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G sim cards
Many people (including I) have not been able to get the at&t 3g sim card (the one with the "3g fireball") working in our neos. The older cingular ones do work (they are "64K smart chip"). I have two cingular "64K smart chip" SIMs that won't work in the neo1973 (CME 10), but they both work in both my razr and sierra ac860 card. Both SIMs are about 9-10 months old now - maybe they changed a while back while keeping similar markings? On the back, one says "3G" (with a tiny "c" after it) and has the numbers 64205G and 3020. The other also has 3G(c) and has 64205O (capital "o") and 4020. I dug up an old SIM (also cingular) that does work (so I know the GSM chip and SIM socket aren't faulty), but that account is no longer active. -Andy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: another GPS idea - speed-sensitive voicemail
Shachar Shemesh wrote: Michael Welter wrote: You're confusing GSM (Global Systems Mobile) with the gsm codec in Asterisk. I find that highly likely. I'm pretty new to Asterisk. They have different meanings. The codecs used by your mobile phone are not the same as the gsm codec in Asterisk. But it does use some codec. Even if it's not the same one, there is a piece of software that can decompress it, and you can (probably) store pre-compressed message you just want to dump on the line. I realize this cannot be done due to licensing and other considerations. I'm just saying that the details may be wrong, but the principle stands. No, you can't. Because the modem does not give you the compressed data. It gives you an analog output. There is no way (published) to make it send out compressed data. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Board only option in October?
Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > So you probably wouldn't save more than USD 50 (maximum) that way. And > for that, you have all the risk of some assembly problem? Not that I think it is a good expenditure of FIC's limited employee's time at this point, but one thing to think about for the long run is fostering a feeling of openness in all respects. Even thought it makes little sense for someone to upgrade individual parts for their phone, the mere fact that such an upgrade *exists* will create a different feeling in peoples minds. It is just another way for FIC to convince folks that they are the good guys and Apple/Nokia/Motorola/etc are all closed systems in every respect. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ IPv6 on Fedora 7 http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/fedora/ipv6-tunnel.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back up of the "Factory Bad Block Table" BBT, needed or a waste of time?
On Sun, Jul 29, 2007 at 05:26:06PM +0200, Visti Andresen wrote: > > > and inside the bad block table (BBT), I guess that the BBT isn't located > > > inside the 4. partition and therefor not backed up? > > > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NAND_bad_blocks#Bad_Block_Table_.28BBT.29 > > > > well, technically it is in the rootfs partition... but in blocks that > > are marked as bad blocks ;) so depending on the method of your backup, > > you will either have it or not. > > I suppose it is marked as a bad block inside JFS2? jffs2 uses mtd, which in turn uses the bbt > Should I go look for the OOB special markers (BBT0/BBT1)? > or can I simply look for > "the last two good blocks at the end of NAND" as suggested by: > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NAND_bad_blocks#Bad_Block_Table_.28BBT.29 the OOB special markers are definitely the way more reliable method. the last two blocks of NAND is misleading, since those last two could be _real_ bad blocks, and the BBT thus in the previous blocks. using the same algorithm like the mtd code makes sense: Start from the end of the device backwards and look for the OOB special markers. > I'm currently experimenting with creating a program that reads the > "Bad Block Table". It also seams I can get a list of bad nand blocks > using the "nand bad" u-boot command yes, you can get the list from 'nand bad'. However, that list will only provide 1 bit information (bad/non-bad) whereas the actual BBT uses 2 bit per block (good/factory bad/wear-out bad). > I was thinking more along the lines of, if they were writing it with bit > patterns > like memtest86 to detect the bad blocks. unfortunately this is not a reliable method to detect factory-marked bad blocks. Those blocks might work just fine, but e.g. lose their information later on. Or only work for way less erase cycles than other blocks. I'd recommend googling for some general information on NAND before implementing such algorithms (based on wrong assumptions). > If they were probing the values of the ones and zeros to determine a > statistical probability that the cell is faulty. there really is no method, sorry. > The data sheet don't tell how they do it, so I'm assuming you don't > know either... you cannot do it by software. you have to do actualy (I guess even analogue) measurements on the cells. > It seems that the factory bad block info is located in the sixth OOB byte > in the first or second page of a nand block. > Any non 0xff values marks the block as bad. > > I'm updating the bad block wiki to include this info... > Please correct me if I'm wrong. that's correct. however, you can easily erase the OOB area of a bad block, resulting with that byte becoming 0xff ;) -- - Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back up of the "Factory Bad Block Table" BBT, needed or a waste of time?
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 14:41:41 +0800 Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, Jul 28, 2007 at 02:46:24PM +0200, Visti Andresen wrote: > > I'm probably going to receive my Neo next Monday (the joy). > > good luck. > > > The gpsd should be backed up by the procedure in: > > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973#Initial_backup > > this is not present on phase-1 handsets and only accidentially ended up > on the GTA01Bv4 that were sent to phase-0 developers before. I've > updated the wiki accordingly. Ahh yes the GLLIN driver will be available at some point in time: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/008466.html So there is no need to back up anything as I have "the source" :) I wish Nokia was this open about there hardware/software for the N770 and N800, oh well > > > and inside the bad block table (BBT), I guess that the BBT isn't located > > inside the 4. partition and therefor not backed up? > > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NAND_bad_blocks#Bad_Block_Table_.28BBT.29 > > well, technically it is in the rootfs partition... but in blocks that > are marked as bad blocks ;) so depending on the method of your backup, > you will either have it or not. I suppose it is marked as a bad block inside JFS2? Should I go look for the OOB special markers (BBT0/BBT1)? or can I simply look for "the last two good blocks at the end of NAND" as suggested by: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NAND_bad_blocks#Bad_Block_Table_.28BBT.29 > > > QUESTIONS: > > == > > Is it necessary to back up the BBT alt all? > > Depends on what you want to do. It makes sense. In fact, I have asked > our production software team multiple times to store the bad-block > information at the factory for each device, so we can theoretically > restore that information for any given device. I don't know the status > of it, though. I'm currently experimenting with creating a program that reads the "Bad Block Table". It also seams I can get a list of bad nand blocks using the "nand bad" u-boot command > > > Can the "factory BBT" be recreated using JTAG? > > not if you erase all inline and OOB data by something like 'nand scrub' > of u-boot. This will erase everything! > > > or has the factory used a special kind of "magic" when > > establishing the BBT? I was thinking more along the lines of, if they were writing it with bit patterns like memtest86 to detect the bad blocks. (which we might also do in an attempt to find bad blocks) or If they were probing the values of the ones and zeros to determine a statistical probability that the cell is faulty. Consulted the "Oracle of Delphi", or used other means unavailable to us. The data sheet don't tell how they do it, so I'm assuming you don't know either... Anyway thank you for your time and answer, I think I will try to backup the bad block info using u-boot "nand bad" and my C program (given that I get to work) > > no. it just scans the nand flash for factory bad block markers (see > nand data sheet) and creates its own table (for faster access and as a > backup copy). Ah yes nothing like sitting with a cup of coffee reading a good data sheet a Sunday afternoon. It seems that the factory bad block info is located in the sixth OOB byte in the first or second page of a nand block. Any non 0xff values marks the block as bad. I'm updating the bad block wiki to include this info... Please correct me if I'm wrong. > > -- > - Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>http://openmoko.org/ > > Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: another GPS idea - speed-sensitive voicemail
Michael Welter wrote: > You're confusing GSM (Global Systems Mobile) with the gsm codec in > Asterisk. I find that highly likely. I'm pretty new to Asterisk. > They have different meanings. The codecs used by your mobile phone > are not the same as the gsm codec in Asterisk. But it does use some codec. Even if it's not the same one, there is a piece of software that can decompress it, and you can (probably) store pre-compressed message you just want to dump on the line. I realize this cannot be done due to licensing and other considerations. I'm just saying that the details may be wrong, but the principle stands. Shachar ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: another GPS idea - speed-sensitive voicemail
You're confusing GSM (Global Systems Mobile) with the gsm codec in Asterisk. They have different meanings. The codecs used by your mobile phone are not the same as the gsm codec in Asterisk. Shachar Shemesh wrote: Ian Stirling wrote: There are 2 D/A, 2 A/D flexibly routed, and one D/A that is dedicated to the earpiece. About the only limitation is that you can't do things that would require more IO sources than are available. For example, playing stereo MP3, and acting as voicemail/answerphone may not be possible. (It'd have to drop to mono). Lost you there. You seem to suggest the following route for recording voice calls: 1. Call arrives compressed with a GSM codec 2. Phone decompresses codec 3. Phone moves uncompressed stream through D2A 4. Phone further moves stream through A2D 5. Phone compresses the resulting stream 6. Phone saves compressed stream, presumably to the flash Why not just do: 1. Call arrives compressed with a GSM codec 2. Phone saves compressed stream to flash I really don't see why the A/D infrastructure needs to be involved in voice recording at all. In fact, it seems that it should be easier for the phone to save the call than to play it to the speaker. Shachar P.S. Asterisk, for example, saves most of its recordings (pick up greeting, extension selection, voice mail greeting etc.) saved while compressed with GSM codec. As far as I understand things, if OpenMoko did that, playing a recording would involve getting it off the flash and dump it into the GSM line. Extremely light on CPU, and thus unintrusive. Sh. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Michael Welter Telecom Matters Corp. Denver, Colorado US +1.303.414.4980 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.TelecomMatters.net ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS driver (gllin) licensing question
On 07/29/2007 Jørgen P. Tjernø wrote: > I'm not yet a P1 owner (it hasn't been shipped), but I've been trying > to > figure out what the GPS deal is. After talking to a few people on IRC, > it seems that the following is the scenario (please correct me if I'm > wrong): > > * There's a (binary, proprietary) driver for the GPS device called > 'gllin'. > * 'gllin' is not (and is not supposed to be) shipped with the device. > * FIC do not plan on distributing 'gllin'. Yes GLLIN is the name of this non-free (user space) piece of software. We do plan on distribing this. We are just about done with the SLA terms with Global Locate. We required that we build this code ourselves which caused a lot of delays in getting this approval. Once we have the final SLA I will make an announcement. This should be very soon. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GPS driver (gllin) licensing question
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi! I'm not yet a P1 owner (it hasn't been shipped), but I've been trying to figure out what the GPS deal is. After talking to a few people on IRC, it seems that the following is the scenario (please correct me if I'm wrong): * There's a (binary, proprietary) driver for the GPS device called 'gllin'. * 'gllin' is not (and is not supposed to be) shipped with the device. * FIC do not plan on distributing 'gllin'. This is because of licensing issues, correct? So, I ask: FIC didn't get licenses for the software they *need* to operate it (as far as the vendor is concerned) when they bought the hardware? Or is this something done to "encourage"/"force" the development of the OSS-alternative driver? I'm sorry if I've missed a big piece of info. :-) Kindest regards, Jørgen P. Tjernø. Ps. I'd appreciate it if someone affiliated with FIC would reply to this thread too. :-) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGrHzUUMzc1WGo4zgRAg9cAJ41sUHIQta4gsUgAIiVuq0lVKVDiQCff0Er ZmbClvKZc5SpEOKPVtE7Tdw= =l1Vg -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: another GPS idea - speed-sensitive voicemail
su, 2007-07-29 kello 13:25 +0300, Shachar Shemesh kirjoitti: > Why not just do: > 1. Call arrives compressed with a GSM codec > 2. Phone saves compressed stream to flash > > I really don't see why the A/D infrastructure needs to be involved in > voice recording at all. I does, because the GSM chip in the phone will not give access to the digital audio stream. It will only interface through analog I/O. The cost given to me for this is chipset price. That is IMAO acceptable, as we can still achieve the wanted functionality though the nice mixer chip (if not in a completely optimal fashion). This _does_ give us yet another reason, quite practical even, to want to be able to modify firmware on the GSM chip as well, but that's not happening any time soon... -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.iki.fi/mjr/> Transhumanist - WTA member - http://www.transhumanism.org/> Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - http://www.singinst.org/> ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: another GPS idea - speed-sensitive voicemail
Shachar Shemesh wrote: Ian Stirling wrote: There are 2 D/A, 2 A/D flexibly routed, and one D/A that is dedicated to the earpiece. About the only limitation is that you can't do things that would require more IO sources than are available. For example, playing stereo MP3, and acting as voicemail/answerphone may not be possible. (It'd have to drop to mono). Lost you there. You seem to suggest the following route for recording voice calls: 1. Call arrives compressed with a GSM codec 2. Phone decompresses codec 3. Phone moves uncompressed stream through D2A 4. Phone further moves stream through A2D 5. Phone compresses the resulting stream 6. Phone saves compressed stream, presumably to the flash Why not just do: 1. Call arrives compressed with a GSM codec 2. Phone saves compressed stream to flash Because the GSM modem outputs analog. It does not output digital information. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: another GPS idea - speed-sensitive voicemail
Ian Stirling wrote: > > There are 2 D/A, 2 A/D flexibly routed, and one D/A that is dedicated > to the earpiece. > > About the only limitation is that you can't do things that would > require more IO sources than are available. > For example, playing stereo MP3, and acting as voicemail/answerphone > may not be possible. > (It'd have to drop to mono). Lost you there. You seem to suggest the following route for recording voice calls: 1. Call arrives compressed with a GSM codec 2. Phone decompresses codec 3. Phone moves uncompressed stream through D2A 4. Phone further moves stream through A2D 5. Phone compresses the resulting stream 6. Phone saves compressed stream, presumably to the flash Why not just do: 1. Call arrives compressed with a GSM codec 2. Phone saves compressed stream to flash I really don't see why the A/D infrastructure needs to be involved in voice recording at all. In fact, it seems that it should be easier for the phone to save the call than to play it to the speaker. Shachar P.S. Asterisk, for example, saves most of its recordings (pick up greeting, extension selection, voice mail greeting etc.) saved while compressed with GSM codec. As far as I understand things, if OpenMoko did that, playing a recording would involve getting it off the flash and dump it into the GSM line. Extremely light on CPU, and thus unintrusive. Sh. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Real Time Audio (SCHED_FIFO)
Esben Stien wrote: > "Brad Midgley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> tell us the big picture for what you want to do > > I want to be able to have real time low latency drop out free audio, > which is not possible without jack. > > This is especially crucial for a phone or anything that deals with > audio;). Actually it depends on how much mixing you're doing. At the hardware interface they are using ALSA. > I've heard now that JACK has been ported to openmoko, btw. I just hope > it's used as the default sound server in openmoko. Above ALSA, the default sound server for OpenMoko is PulseAudio, a very good audio server. It has features to support low-latency and realtime response. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What happened to the order?
Dear Asbjørn, Have you got an email with tracking number? I believe your Neo is already on the way to your desk. Jouston begin:vcard fn:Jouston Huang n:Huang;Jouston org:OpenMoko adr:;;7F., No. 300, YangKuan Street;Neihu;;;Taiwan, Republic of China email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Operation Manager tel;work:+886.2.8751.8751 ext. 7316 tel;cell:+886.939.989.423 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.openmoko.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Placing an order for September Release of FIC Neo.
Steven ** wrote: > Ok, no need to worry about non-upgradeability. You can update all the OS > and apps on the Neo's with the standard USB cable it comes with (or > possibly even over wifi or bluetooth even). > > I'm also pretty confident that they won't be delaying release of GTA02 > because of software. As long as the OS is still working (which it would > seem to be nearly identical to current OS), they'd push it out the > door. They may not be pushing it to the wider market, but I'm sure > they'll have it for sale directly. I mean, the current version doesn't > reliably make phone calls and they sold it! I wasn't worried about the phone not being upgradeable, only that they would delay release until the software is ready because they keep touting it as the "mass market release." The only reason I'm waiting for the 2nd release before I buy is that the higher speed processor, 2D video accel (yes, 2D, not 3D), and larger capacity battery is worth the extra $150 to me. The WiFi doesn't hurt either. I am curious to know if they plan to sell the 2nd generation with the same accessories, and what their plans for 3rd generation on are. -Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Board only option in October?
On Mon, Jul 09, 2007 at 10:12:47AM +0100, Cass, John P wrote: > I have a question before I go ahead and order my Neo - there was an > earlier discussion about the possibility of getting a GTA02 board in > October so we can upgrade our Neos to 02 without having to buy a whole > new phone (call it the Philosopher's Neo). The issue is a bit more difficult. As of now, the 'board kit' would have to be: 1) the mainboard, including the stacked wifi PCB and the bluetooth FPC 2) the translucent buttons (otherwise you won't see the new much- requested LED's) 3) adhesive rubber between LCM and PCB 4) new plastic inset (speaker assembly) 5) adhesive shielding tape for LCM-PCB cable Even then, the assembly steps are not exactly trivial, since you * need to remove the LCM from the PCB. This is glued, and it is quite hard to remove without damaging the LCM, especially the very fragile FPC cable between LCM and PCB * need to remove the current white plastic stereo speaker compartment and replace it with the new mono speaker compartment (we had to find space for the wifi somewhere...) Yes, you could keep the GPS antenna, the plastic case and the LCM. But seriously, if you consider the amount of effort that we have to spend on creating a detailed step-by-step guide with photographs on the assembly process, plus the inevitable amount of customer support with people who think they'd get it done but now can't manage (or actually broke one or both of the devices now), I'm not really sure if it makes all that much sense. In the end, all you keep is the LCM. Yes, it is an expensive LCM. But in the overall picture, that 'mainboard kit' would only be insignificantly cheaper than the full GTA02 device. Oh yes, the case. Which costs close to nothing, and your old case might already have some scratches at GTA02 release time ;) So you probably wouldn't save more than USD 50 (maximum) that way. And for that, you have all the risk of some assembly problem? Thus, my personal conclusion: Isn't it much better to keep the old GTA01 and sell it to somebody who can't afford a GTA02? So I don't think we'll have an official upgrade kit. We will start selling spare parts at some point, though. The schedule is still somewhat unclear. Maybe there is a chance you can combine your kit out of spare parts. But still, I don't think it makes much sense. Sorry, -- - Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
