RE: Acoustic feedback

2007-10-02 Thread Richard Reichenbacher 
I posted this in the forum but never received a response.  Any possibility
of an official ipkg repo from trolltech so we don't have to keep reflashing?
I've actually been using qtopia on my neo as an everyday phone and I hate to
keep reflashing and redoing my settings every time there's an update.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lorn Potter
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 5:54 PM
To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Acoustic feedback

Michael Welter wrote:
> 
> 
> Lorn Potter wrote:
>> Michael Welter wrote:
>>> I was making some test calls using the Neo and Qtopia.  When I 
>>> performed the echo test (+13034144978 x820) I got repeating echos 
>>> (like you see with two opposing mirrors).
>>
>> I used a wrong alsa state in the Qtopia tech preview image, which has 
>> an echo problem (sidetone), which I think might be this.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> This has been on the list before, but OM will not send DTMF digits 
>>> after the call has been set up.  
>>
>> This is a bug in Qtopia. Comm guy loved that one. Has been fixed.
> 
> The Qtopia sent DTMF digits just fine.  OM won't send digits after the 
> call has been set up.

ahha ok. gotcha.

> 
>>
>>> Also OM is not able to make calls after returning from sleep mode.  
>>
>> Known bug. Still working on this one. For whatever reasons, the modem 
>> starts spitting out junk characters.
>>
>>
>>> And I think the calls are not disconnecting properly--if the Neo is 
>>> disconnected while the called telephone is ringing, the called 
>>> telephone continues to ring.
>>
>> I haven't seen this one.
>>
>> I am going to issue a snapshot update, since I got audiostate 
>> switching fixed in Qtopia.
> 
> Let me know if you need help with the testing.

I think ScaredyCat from irc has setup snapshot image builds somewhere.


-- 
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech


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Re: Vibrator

2007-10-02 Thread Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller 

SIEMENS had shown such a display speaker at CeBIT 2002.

Here a German blog entry with some photos and descriptions:

http://www.usp-forum.de/prototypen-classics-limited-editions/15744- 
display-speaker-phone.html



Am 02.10.2007 um 08:52 schrieb Sven Klomp:


I didn't thought about the subject. Hopefully, nobody will put me on a
blacklist ;-)

On Tuesday 02 October 2007 00:49, Robin Paulson wrote:

On 02/10/2007, Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The idea from the Jackito sounded good to me - use the screen  
surface

as the audio transducer, that way if you play a low-frequency sound
you can feel it with your fingers.  And it's much lower-power than
using the vibrator.  But I'm not sure how you attach a piezo to the
screen; maybe the idea is to just vibrate the touchscreen film so as
to have lower mass.


i'm not sure that's a good idea: is the screen designed to take such
repeated vibrations, they're usually pretty sensitive?
Do you think this applies also for the build-in vibrator (give me  
another

name :-) )? I don't hope, that many incoming phone calls will harm my
display.
I think the two constraints are the battery an the livetime of the  
motor.



imo the whole idea would get pretty annoying after the initial  
novelty

wore off, and i'm sure most people will disable it pretty quickly
For sure, it will be annoying if you use it for every keystroke  
while typing a
message. But for special buttons like hang-up or close an  
application,  it

might be very comfortable.

Greetings,
Sven


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Re: Vibrator

2007-10-02 Thread Robin Paulson 
On 02/10/2007, Sven Klomp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > i'm not sure that's a good idea: is the screen designed to take such
> > repeated vibrations, they're usually pretty sensitive?
> Do you think this applies also for the build-in vibrator (give me another
> name :-) )? I don't hope, that many incoming phone calls will harm my
> display.
> I think the two constraints are the battery an the livetime of the motor.

i don't know how the thing is arranged inside, so i'm just guessing
here, but i would think the vibrator that tells you when the phone is
ringing is attached to some other part of the phone than the lcd. yes,
every device is coupled mechanically by the fact it's a one-piece
unit, but there will be damping between those two items i would
imagine, whether by design or coincidence. for example nylon washers,
standoff brackets, the external case

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Re: Update from OpenMoko

2007-10-02 Thread Thomas Wood 

On Mon, 2007-10-01 at 19:28 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Will I be able to use GTA02 as a phone?  Or will I still be required to
> have the neo plugged in via usb tied to a computer and ssh in, and face
> east while standing on one leg to make a phone call?
> 
> More direct question: What state will the software be in when the GTA02
> ships? (Not that I will buy a GTA02, I am just wondering when I can use my
> GTA01)

If you're using the latest OpenMoko software (i.e. in the last week or
so), you should find it is becoming a lot more usable. There are quite a
number of patches to gsmd being applied in OpenEmbedded which means it
appears to be a lot more stable, which in turn means making calls is a
lot more reliable. We've been using two Neo1973s to call each other
multiple times in the last week without any fiddling on the command
line.

Of course, battery life is a separate issue.

Regards,

Thomas


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Re: Acoustic feedback

2007-10-02 Thread Thomas Wood 

On Mon, 2007-10-01 at 18:11 -0600, Michael Welter wrote:
> 
> Lorn Potter wrote:
> > Michael Welter wrote:
> >> I was making some test calls using the Neo and Qtopia.  When I 
> >> performed the echo test (+13034144978 x820) I got repeating echos 
> >> (like you see with two opposing mirrors).
> > 
> > I used a wrong alsa state in the Qtopia tech preview image, which has an 
> > echo problem (sidetone), which I think might be this.
> > 
> > 
> >>
> >> This has been on the list before, but OM will not send DTMF digits 
> >> after the call has been set up.  
> > 
> > This is a bug in Qtopia. Comm guy loved that one. Has been fixed.
> 
> The Qtopia sent DTMF digits just fine.  OM won't send digits after the 
> call has been set up.

This is on the TODO list and should be fairly easy to implement. If
anyone is willing to write a patch before I get round to it, I would
happily review it and add it to svn.

Regards,

Thomas

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Re: Vibrator

2007-10-02 Thread Paolo Vernazza 

Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:

SIEMENS had shown such a display speaker at CeBIT 2002.

Here a German blog entry with some photos and descriptions:

http://www.usp-forum.de/prototypen-classics-limited-editions/15744-display-speaker-phone.html 


Yes, but a touch screen is more sinsible than those 4-colours displays.

Paolo

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Re: Acoustic feedback

2007-10-02 Thread Lorn Potter 
On Tuesday 02 October 2007 17:21, Richard Reichenbacher wrote:
> I posted this in the forum but never received a response.  Any possibility
> of an official ipkg repo from trolltech so we don't have to keep
> reflashing? I've actually been using qtopia on my neo as an everyday phone
> and I hate to keep reflashing and redoing my settings every time there's an
> update.

Right now, the oe .bb creates one big ipkg.For the TT images, I don't build 
the entire system for every update, just Qtopia. 

I will see about setting up a feed for it :) But it wont get updated everyday, 
only when there is a significant reason to update.



-- 
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Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech


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qtopia flash image update

2007-10-02 Thread Lorn Potter 
I have uploaded a Qtopia snapshot version flash image for the Neo.

You can get it from here:
http://www.qtopia.net/modules/devices/openmoko.php

a brief change log:

* fixed audiostate handling (including head[sets/phones])
* updated kernel to 2.6.22.5
* fixed screen dimming/blanking.
* ringtones play (wav only)
* added scribble example application
* fixed snake for touchscreen only devices
* fixed gsm band selection.
* fixed timezone selection handling on touchscreen only.
* numerous other fixes


a few Known issues:

* suspend/resume not fully working. must restart Qtopia to get modem working 
again.
* inputmethod covers some widgets (bluetooth settings)
* no modem mux (no gprs)
* no mms support (no wap stack integrated)
* bluetooth audio not tested on Neo yet, probably needs work.

enjoy and prosper!

-- 
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech


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Re: Vibrator

2007-10-02 Thread Steven ** 
On 10/1/07, Kamisamanou Burgess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'll agree with that. I actually like the vibration idea. I don't like
> that the list is loaded with stuff like
> "IR portRemote control applications Would be great to use openmoko as a
> Hamony remote controller."
> I don't quite see the necessity in running you tv with your cellphone


It's not about necessity!  It's about freedom.  Controlling my MythTV server
is one of the projects I have planned for my Neo.  Just because you have no
use for it doesn't mean it's not useful to me and perhaps others.

-Steven
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Re: qtopia flash image update

2007-10-02 Thread andy selby 
On 02/10/2007, Lorn Potter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have uploaded a Qtopia snapshot version flash image for the Neo.

> a few Known issues:
>
> * suspend/resume not fully working. must restart Qtopia to get modem working
> again.
> * inputmethod covers some widgets (bluetooth settings)
> * no modem mux (no gprs)
> * no mms support (no wap stack integrated)
> * bluetooth audio not tested on Neo yet, probably needs work.

Err.. how about the software is locked as default and shutdown the
device doesn't work?
but I'm sure the rest of the software is good, keep up the good work.

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RE: qtopia flash image update

2007-10-02 Thread Heilpern, Mark 
I'm seeing the same problems with the new Qtopia image. The device comes
up locked (with no apparent way to unlock it) -- the touch screen
controls flash so I know they're registering, but the screen doesn't go
to the unlock screen. The bottom left "soft menu" is "unlock", but
touching the screen there doesn't register at all.

Holding in the power button for a moment provides the restart/shutdown
menu. Selecting "shutdown device" puts the clock icon on screen but
doesn't go beyond that. Instead, it appears that the phone has crashed
hard; only removal of the battery gets results from here. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of andy selby
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 12:42 PM
To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
Subject: Re: qtopia flash image update

On 02/10/2007, Lorn Potter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have uploaded a Qtopia snapshot version flash image for the Neo.

> a few Known issues:
>
> * suspend/resume not fully working. must restart Qtopia to get modem
working
> again.
> * inputmethod covers some widgets (bluetooth settings)
> * no modem mux (no gprs)
> * no mms support (no wap stack integrated)
> * bluetooth audio not tested on Neo yet, probably needs work.

Err.. how about the software is locked as default and shutdown the
device doesn't work?
but I'm sure the rest of the software is good, keep up the good work.

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Re: qtopia flash image update

2007-10-02 Thread lpotter 
On Wednesday 03 October 2007 03:39:42 Heilpern, Mark wrote:
> I'm seeing the same problems with the new Qtopia image. The device comes
> up locked (with no apparent way to unlock it) -- the touch screen
> controls flash so I know they're registering, but the screen doesn't go
> to the unlock screen. The bottom left "soft menu" is "unlock", but
> touching the screen there doesn't register at all.
>

wait a bit longer. the screen/keylock should go away when it registers with 
the network.


-- 
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech

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Possible Input method -- press and drag

2007-10-02 Thread Derek Pressnall 
I've had an idea for a novel input method that would work on touch
screen devices.
The idea is to present a graphic that is similar to a standard phone
keypad layout, with standard lettering and number positions.  To enter
a specific letter, you touch the button associated with that letter
and drag your finger/stylus in a particular direction to indicate
which letter to choose. For example, to enter an "a", press the number
2, then drag to the left and release.  A "b" would be "press 2, drag
upwards and release", and a "c" would be "press 2, drag right then
release".  And so on.  To enter the number 2, just press and release
without dragging.  To be easily usable, the method shouldn't require
you to drag completely off the button, but should also require a
minimum drag length.

What does everyone think about the usability of this type of method?
Once I get up to speed on GTK programming, I can take a stab at it,
but it may be a bit before I get time for it.  So if someone else
wants to give it a shot, go ahead.

--Derek

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Re: Possible Input method -- press and drag

2007-10-02 Thread Robin Paulson 
On 03/10/2007, Derek Pressnall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The idea is to present a graphic that is similar to a standard phone
> keypad layout, with standard lettering and number positions.  To enter
> a specific letter, you touch the button associated with that letter
> and drag your finger/stylus in a particular direction to indicate
> which letter to choose. For example, to enter an "a", press the number
> 2, then drag to the left and release.  A "b" would be "press 2, drag
> upwards and release", and a "c" would be "press 2, drag right then
> release".  And so on.  To enter the number 2, just press and release
> without dragging.  To be easily usable, the method shouldn't require
> you to drag completely off the button, but should also require a
> minimum drag length.
>
> What does everyone think about the usability of this type of method?
> Once I get up to speed on GTK programming, I can take a stab at it,
> but it may be a bit before I get time for it.  So if someone else
> wants to give it a shot, go ahead.

i think this has been done already, sort of. see:

http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/

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Re: Possible Input method -- press and drag

2007-10-02 Thread Luca Dionisi 
On 10/2/07, Derek Pressnall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've had an idea for a novel input method that would work on touch
> screen devices.
> The idea is to present a graphic that is similar to a standard phone
> keypad layout, with standard lettering and number positions.  To enter
> a specific letter, you touch the button associated with that letter
> and drag your finger/stylus in a particular direction to indicate
> which letter to choose. For example, to enter an "a", press the number
> 2, then drag to the left and release.  A "b" would be "press 2, drag
> upwards and release", and a "c" would be "press 2, drag right then
> release".  And so on.  To enter the number 2, just press and release
> without dragging.  To be easily usable, the method shouldn't require
> you to drag completely off the button, but should also require a
> minimum drag length.
>
> What does everyone think about the usability of this type of method?
> Once I get up to speed on GTK programming, I can take a stab at it,
> but it may be a bit before I get time for it.  So if someone else
> wants to give it a shot, go ahead.
>

I don't know how much this idea is novel.  It should be a kind of
revisitation on the pie-menu, which is supposed to enable quicker
access to more GUI commands.

I think it could be usable.


On 10/2/07, Robin Paulson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> i think this has been done already, sort of. see:
>
> http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/

Already done, or just proposed?

--Luca

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Re: Possible Input method -- press and drag

2007-10-02 Thread Vincent 
On 02/10/2007, Robin Paulson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 03/10/2007, Derek Pressnall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The idea is to present a graphic that is similar to a standard phone
> > keypad layout, with standard lettering and number positions.  To enter
> > a specific letter, you touch the button associated with that letter
> > and drag your finger/stylus in a particular direction to indicate
> > which letter to choose. For example, to enter an "a", press the number
> > 2, then drag to the left and release.  A "b" would be "press 2, drag
> > upwards and release", and a "c" would be "press 2, drag right then
> > release".  And so on.  To enter the number 2, just press and release
> > without dragging.  To be easily usable, the method shouldn't require
> > you to drag completely off the button, but should also require a
> > minimum drag length.
> >
> > What does everyone think about the usability of this type of method?
> > Once I get up to speed on GTK programming, I can take a stab at it,
> > but it may be a bit before I get time for it.  So if someone else
> > wants to give it a shot, go ahead.
>
> i think this has been done already, sort of. see:
>
> http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/


Or perhaps more like this thread:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-September/009916.html

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Re: Possible Input method -- press and drag

2007-10-02 Thread Derek Pressnall 
On 10/2/07, Robin Paulson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> i think this has been done already, sort of. see:
>
> http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/

That looks similar to what I had in mind (and may end up being the
same in actual use), but I wasn't thinking of having an additional
popup graphic when you hit a key.  Instead, hitting and slightly
dragging to one side or another should probably cause the key icon to
perform an animated wiggle in that direction, which would probably be
less distracting than the popup splash graphic.  Also it wouldn't
require you to move your finger as far, it can start in the middle of
the key and move just a bit in the required direction instead of off
the button and to another popup button.  Also wouldn't require a bunch
of additonal reserved space around the outside buttons (bottom and
side rows) for the popup splash graphic.

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How to enable USB-host mode

2007-10-02 Thread Bartlomiej Zdanowski [Zdanek] 

Hello.
I've made my 3-direction USB cable with +5v power but I need some tips 
how to enable USB host mode in Openmoko. Please help.


Best regards,
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phone +48 22 611 69 23
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Re: Vibrator

2007-10-02 Thread Mark Arvidson 
I have a patch for neod that optionally buzzes the vibrator with each
keystroke (the same way the sound works).  I haven't submitted it
because I'm trying to get the build to work top-to-bottom.

Let me know if you would like to test it.
  --sagacis


On 10/1/07, Jeffrey Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > It seems that most the things on this wish list are entirely unnecessary
> > and battery consuming
> I am not sure what else is on the list, but I think this (vibration feedback)
> is a pretty useful feature, especially for non-geeks.  Remember, a lot of
> think a GUI on a computer isn't needed, but how many have sold since it's
> become that much more obvious what is going on? (true enough, price drops
> have helped the computer's uptake in the last 20+ years, but you get my point
> I hope)
>
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emergency alarm for openmoko

2007-10-02 Thread Robin Paulson 
this looks like an interesting idea, does anyone here know of
something similar for openmoko?

http://www.gadgetguild.com/2007/10/01/armani-phone-with-built-in-rape-alarm/

as i recall, some of the designed-for-outdoors ericsson phones a few
years back had something similar, and they could be configured to send
a message to the emergency services

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Re: emergency alarm for openmoko

2007-10-02 Thread Doug Sutherland 
Better check the legalities of auto sending anything to emergency 
services. Due to instances of false alarms, this is not legal in many 
places, and/or can involve large fines. This is true even of home 
fire and security alarm systems. If you have false alarms and a
system that reports to emergency services, you can be fined 
heavily. The idea of alarm function is not bad. The idea of any 
messaging to emergency services is very bad.


> configured to send a message to the emergency services


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Re: emergency alarm for openmoko

2007-10-02 Thread Kyle Bassett 
I love the idea, just (here's the real reason why I love open source!) not
send to emergency services.  Pick a relative or co-worker to send to...hell
maybe even an auto-email system that will parse the message.  Anything is
possible!

-Kyle

On 10/3/07, Doug Sutherland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Better check the legalities of auto sending anything to emergency
> services. Due to instances of false alarms, this is not legal in many
> places, and/or can involve large fines. This is true even of home
> fire and security alarm systems. If you have false alarms and a
> system that reports to emergency services, you can be fined
> heavily. The idea of alarm function is not bad. The idea of any
> messaging to emergency services is very bad.
>
>
> > configured to send a message to the emergency services
>
>
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Re: Acoustic feedback

2007-10-02 Thread Lorn Potter 
On Tuesday 02 October 2007 17:21, Richard Reichenbacher wrote:
> I posted this in the forum but never received a response.  Any possibility
> of an official ipkg repo from trolltech so we don't have to keep
> reflashing? I've actually been using qtopia on my neo as an everyday phone
> and I hate to keep reflashing and redoing my settings every time there's an
> update.

Right now, the oe .bb creates one big ipkg.For the TT images, I don't build 
the entire system for every update, just Qtopia. 

I will see about setting up a feed for it :) But it wont get updated everyday, 
only when there is a significant reason to update.



-- 
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech


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