Re: New TOP SECRET OM device??
Le vendredi 05 octobre 2007 à 11:35 -0700, Michael Shiloh a écrit : > Ok, that does it. No more pictures for my presentations! From now on my > presentation tool will be vi. Hmmm, I wonder if using emacs would not be a better idea for putting an end to all these speculations? [...] > I know that to some extent the community tries to infer as much as > possible out of every word we utter and picture we show because we have > not been good at getting information to you. Again, my job is to improve > this, and I really intend to make this better. Yes, that's pointless. Let's get back to more productive debates, like the respective merits of using emacs or vi for $your_favorite_task_here, or even maybe python or perl as a default scripting language for the Neo. :-)) Rodolphe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New TOP SECRET OM device??
On 10/5/07, Jimmy McMillan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Michael Shiloh wrote: > > Ok, that does it. No more pictures for my presentations! From now on > > my presentation tool will be vi. > > > vi FTW!!! > Complete with ASCII pictures, I hope. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New TOP SECRET OM device??
On 10/6/07, Rodolphe Ortalo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Le vendredi 05 octobre 2007 à 11:35 -0700, Michael Shiloh a écrit : > > Ok, that does it. No more pictures for my presentations! From now on my > > presentation tool will be vi. > > Hmmm, I wonder if using emacs would not be a better idea for putting an > end to all these speculations? > > [...] > > I know that to some extent the community tries to infer as much as > > possible out of every word we utter and picture we show because we have > > not been good at getting information to you. Again, my job is to improve > > this, and I really intend to make this better. > > Yes, that's pointless. Let's get back to more productive debates, like > the respective merits of using emacs or vi for $your_favorite_task_here, > or even maybe python or perl as a default scripting language for the > Neo. ruby, srsly :-)) > > Rodolphe > > > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
No Camera???
I've been following OpenMoko for nearly a year now and the thought has only just struck me - There's no camera! Even the GTA02 seems to be missing a camera. Surely if this is intended to be aimed at consumers a camera is a must? If you look on Nokia's website they have 35 phones listed. Filter that by "with camera" and you get 30. Consumers want cameras and no consumer is going to buy a phone without one?? When the Neo is finally launched as a consumer product (say early 2009) it's not going to matter how open it is or how many 3rd party apps there are - People will not buy a phone without a camera. I think the whole project is in real danger of being a very big, expensive flop. Please, someone put my mind at rest! :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
Am 06.10.2007 um 19:06 schrieb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: I've been following OpenMoko for nearly a year now and the thought has only just struck me - There's no camera! Even the GTA02 seems to be missing a camera. Surely if this is intended to be aimed at consumers a camera is a must? Don't think so. The _only_ reasons why i would like a camera is puting faces to addressbook entries and scanning barcodes. When the Neo is finally launched as a consumer product (say early 2009) it's not going to matter how open it is or how many 3rd party apps there are - People will not buy a phone without a camera. I think the whole project is in real danger of being a very big, expensive flop. You could be right. _But_ the Neo is in no way a phone for the average. This marked is well served with the usual suspects. Regards Tilman Baumann ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
On 6 Oct 2007, at 18:06, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've been following OpenMoko for nearly a year now and the thought has only just struck me - There's no camera! Even the GTA02 seems to be missing a camera. Surely if this is intended to be aimed at consumers a camera is a must? If you look on Nokia's website they have 35 phones listed. Filter that by "with camera" and you get 30. Consumers want cameras and no consumer is going to buy a phone without one?? When the Neo is finally launched as a consumer product (say early 2009) it's not going to matter how open it is or how many 3rd party apps there are - People will not buy a phone without a camera. I think the whole project is in real danger of being a very big, expensive flop. Please, someone put my mind at rest! :-) Search the archives, this discussion has taken place many many times. Needless to say there won't be a camera as standard since the case tooling can't be altered at this stage. If every design change requested were to be incorporated then the Neo would be the since of a laptop and would be ready in 10 years time. A survey on The Register (UK site) had camera at the lowest required feature with about 25% of people saying they need one and 25% saying the couldn't care less. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
On 6 Oct 2007, at 18:16, Tilman Baumann wrote: You could be right. _But_ the Neo is in no way a phone for the average. This marked is well served with the usual suspects. iPhone has a camera and yet it still gets slagged off. Having a camera doesn't make the difference between a good phone and a poor one. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
Hi, Personally I'm glad to avoid having a camera, and I suppose (know) others think the same. Of course some want it, but as mentioned others don't. If I'm going to take pictures, I use a camera :-) Actually I think a knife would be more usable than a camera :-p Regards, Mikkel Giles Jones skrev: On 6 Oct 2007, at 18:16, Tilman Baumann wrote: You could be right. _But_ the Neo is in no way a phone for the average. This marked is well served with the usual suspects. iPhone has a camera and yet it still gets slagged off. Having a camera doesn't make the difference between a good phone and a poor one. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 10:50, Mikkel Meyer Andersen wrote: Hi, /snip Actually I think a knife would be more usable than a camera :-p Regards, Mikkel Yeah.. But then you wouldn't be able to take it on a plane trip. And people would be making horrible jokes like 'that's not a phone/whips out cellphone with knife . THAT'S a cellphone!!!" --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: No Camera???
>Needless to say there won't be a camera as standard since the case >tooling can't be altered at this stage. Then (IMO) the neo is going to be a failure in the market. >If every design change requested were to be incorporated then the Neo >would be the since of a laptop and would be ready in 10 years time. True - But we're talking about a feature nearly every other phone has and the neo is missing. It's also a feature people actually USE. >A survey on The Register (UK site) had camera at the lowest required >feature with about 25% of people saying they need one and 25% saying >the couldn't care less. Do you have a link? I can't seem to find it. Also, The Register's readers are hardly representative of the mobile phone market! >the Neo is in no way a phone for the average. This marked is >well served with the usual suspects. Ok, I was under the impression the Neo would be aimed at end users. >If I'm going to take pictures, I use a camera :-) Me too - much better quality. The problem is that I don't usually know when I walk out the door in the morning if I'm going to want to take a photo that day and so I don't walk around with a camera. I do however (nearly) always carry my phone with me. That's why 30 of the 35 phones Nokia sells come with a camera. The neo will not penetrate the consumer market without a camera. Not a chance. So, intentional or otherwise, the neo is going to be a geek's toy and nothing more. What a shame. Cheers, Tom PS: Sorry if this is going over ground already covered on the list. <>___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
I would have to disagree. I don't care about having a camera on my phone. I know a few execs. of certain companies who have smartphones that don't even have cameras. You need to remember to distinguish between smartphone consumers and mainstream consumers. Most smartphone consumers, like myself, just want one less device to carry. Blending the PDA and the cellphone is the logical solution. On 10/6/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've been following OpenMoko for nearly a year now and the thought has > only just struck me - There's no camera! > > Even the GTA02 seems to be missing a camera. Surely if this is intended to > be aimed at consumers a camera is a must? > > If you look on Nokia's website they have 35 phones listed. Filter that by > "with camera" and you get 30. Consumers want cameras and no consumer is > going to buy a phone without one?? > > When the Neo is finally launched as a consumer product (say early 2009) > it's not going to matter how open it is or how many 3rd party apps there are > - People will not buy a phone without a camera. I think the whole project is > in real danger of being a very big, expensive flop. > > > Please, someone put my mind at rest! :-) > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- Sayonara, Kamisamanou Burgess http://www.kamisamanou.net ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
There are great uses for a camera in a cellphone/PDA, such as: user interface! Digital vision! I can think of tons of apps to write that would use the camera to great effect.. it really is a shame its not going to be included in the GTA02/03 .. but okay. There are good reasons for this right now. Lets hope theres an easy way to plug a camera into the phone in the future - bluetooth, anyone?! j. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
Frankly, I'm mixed on the subject. For years, I never had a camera phone. I avoided it, as I thought it was a waste. I'd look for phones that specifically didn't have a camera and it took a lot of legwork to find one that was suitable for what I needed but didn't include a camera. Then I got stuck with one that had a camera, and I'll admit I did use it but sparingly. When that phone died, I was torn whether to find another phone with a camera or go without, and went with one without a camera and don't regret it. Overall, I'm glad the Neo doesn't have a camera, otherwise I'd be tempted to port "the gimp" as an ipkg (if someone hasn't already) so I can manipulate photos I take on the spot. ;o) -id Mikkel Meyer Andersen wrote: Hi, Personally I'm glad to avoid having a camera, and I suppose (know) others think the same. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
> >A survey on The Register (UK site) had camera at the lowest required > >feature with about 25% of people saying they need one and 25% saying > >the couldn't care less. > > Do you have a link? I can't seem to find it. Also, The Register's readers > are hardly representative of the mobile phone market! http://www.theregister.com/2007/06/25/mobile_devices_who_decides/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: No Camera???
I use to think I couldn't live without a camera on my phone but I decided to pick up a neo for the open source part. I've been using it with qtopia as an every day phone for the past week or so and I couldn't care less about having a camera anymore. I just don't care about it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 11:40 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: RE: No Camera??? >Needless to say there won't be a camera as standard since the case >tooling can't be altered at this stage. Then (IMO) the neo is going to be a failure in the market. >If every design change requested were to be incorporated then the Neo >would be the since of a laptop and would be ready in 10 years time. True - But we're talking about a feature nearly every other phone has and the neo is missing. It's also a feature people actually USE. >A survey on The Register (UK site) had camera at the lowest required >feature with about 25% of people saying they need one and 25% saying >the couldn't care less. Do you have a link? I can't seem to find it. Also, The Register's readers are hardly representative of the mobile phone market! >the Neo is in no way a phone for the average. This marked is well >served with the usual suspects. Ok, I was under the impression the Neo would be aimed at end users. >If I'm going to take pictures, I use a camera :-) Me too - much better quality. The problem is that I don't usually know when I walk out the door in the morning if I'm going to want to take a photo that day and so I don't walk around with a camera. I do however (nearly) always carry my phone with me. That's why 30 of the 35 phones Nokia sells come with a camera. The neo will not penetrate the consumer market without a camera. Not a chance. So, intentional or otherwise, the neo is going to be a geek's toy and nothing more. What a shame. Cheers, Tom PS: Sorry if this is going over ground already covered on the list. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
On 10/6/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>the Neo is in no way a phone for the average. This marked is > >>well served with the usual suspects. > > Ok, I was under the impression the Neo would be aimed at end users. > > Cheers, > > Tom > > PS: Sorry if this is going over ground already covered on the list. > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > End User - "An individual who will utilize a product or program." There are many different types of EUs(Individuals) with many different interests. You appear to only be focusing on one group that share a common interest. Keep in my that the OpenMoko/Neo 1973 is not necessarily designed for teenagers or kids who's sole focus is the text messaging and the camera. -- Sayonara, Kamisamanou Burgess http://www.kamisamanou.net ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Security in OpenMoko
Hey everybody, I just found this device: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4756295876.html I don't know anything about it really, but it's security related and might provide some inspiration? Cheers, Cailan >From: Mikkel Meyer Andersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: community@lists.openmoko.org >Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 20:44:00 +0200 >Subject: Security in OpenMoko >Hi all, > >First of all I'll like to say hello to all. I'm quite new at the >OpenMoko-thingie (a Neo 1973 is on the way although - waiting with >patience), so I hope you'll bear with me for minor (and major :-)) mistakes. > >And now to the actual subject: is every application on OpenMoko running >as root? > >For a couple of weeks ago I wrote a post on this matter on my blog [1] >and just today I saw that iPhone had exactly that flaw [2]. > >Allow me to quote myself partly from a mail to Sean Moss Pultz about >this [3] sent 17th of September 2007, and partly to refer to me writing >about it at the discussion site for the wiki [4]. > >I don't hope that I've offended anyone, that was certainly not the >purpose. I just think security is a huge point of interest and should >draw a sufficient amount of focus from us developers. > >Regards, >Mikkel Meyer Andersen aka. mikl-dk >Denmark > >--- > >[1]: http://www.scienco.org/2007/openmoko/always-root/ >[2]: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2191373,00.asp ><3> >Triggered by the question whether every execution of an application is >done by the root-user, I started to wondering about the security in >OpenMoko in general. Actually I found very little - near to nothing - >about it, and I personally think that's inappropriate for this project. >We simply have to focus very much on security so that isn't going to be >a pitfall. So please, let's focus on this! If desired, I'll be glad to >join such a "task-force". Many other manufactures don't focus that much >on security, and one is starting to talk about viruses on mobile phones >and so on. I think it's very important to make security an issue in >OpenMoko. (It could be a small-scale solution known from *nix such as >the daily use was under a normal user account and the root account was >required in order to install applications and change certain system >settings; and the root should have a password - or maybe even use sudo >or something.) > >[4]: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
I'm also conflicted about the camera. I don't think lack of a camera will doom the Neo. One thing to keep in mind - nowadays many companies are restricting the use of cell phones with cameras on company premises due to security and IP concerns. I know of many coworkers who've abandoned phones with cameras because they aren't allowed to bring them into the workplace. As for myself i usually leave my phone locked in the car when i go to work. However, having said that, i do find the camera on the phone to be extremely useful. There have been dozens of times when i've been out somewhere with friends and family and thought "if i only had a camera right now!" and then realized that i do on the phone. I have dozens of shots of spontaneous moments that i wouldn't otherwise have if i hadn't had a camera on my phone. So ultimately i think not having a camera might diminish the market, but won't doom the phone. --clayton On 10/6/07, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Frankly, I'm mixed on the subject. For years, I never had a camera > phone. I avoided it, as I thought it was a waste. I'd look for phones > that specifically didn't have a camera and it took a lot of legwork to > find one that was suitable for what I needed but didn't include a > camera. Then I got stuck with one that had a camera, and I'll admit I > did use it but sparingly. When that phone died, I was torn whether to > find another phone with a camera or go without, and went with one > without a camera and don't regret it. > > Overall, I'm glad the Neo doesn't have a camera, otherwise I'd be > tempted to port "the gimp" as an ipkg (if someone hasn't already) so I > can manipulate photos I take on the spot. ;o) > > -id > > > Mikkel Meyer Andersen wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Personally I'm glad to avoid having a camera, and I suppose (know) > > others think the same. > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
On 6 Oct 2007, at 19:39, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The neo will not penetrate the consumer market without a camera. Not a chance. So, intentional or otherwise, the neo is going to be a geek's toy and nothing more. What a shame. It won't anyway, it's always going to be a power users toy. It's not a "branded" device and many people buy on contract. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: No Camera???
>> >A survey on The Register (UK site) had camera at the lowest required >> >feature with about 25% of people saying they need one and 25% saying >> >the couldn't care less. >> >> Do you have a link? I can't seem to find it. Also, The Register's readers >> are hardly representative of the mobile phone market! > >http://www.theregister.com/2007/06/25/mobile_devices_who_decides/ LOL! The survey is about business users, what's more it's aimed at purchase managers buying phones for their employees. Not very surprising they don't want to give their employees camera phones! I'm amazed so many listed it as desirable. The question asked was: "Thinking across your mobile user base, how desirable are the following features in a handheld device for data or mixed use". I really don't think you can use the results of this survey to back up the argument that *consumers* don't want cameras on their phones. Although that said, it is an important result - Your boss doesn't want you to have a camera on your corporate phone. <>___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: No Camera???
>You appear to only be focusing on one group that share a common >interest. Keep in my that the OpenMoko/Neo 1973 is not necessarily designed >for teenagers or kids who's sole focus is the text messaging and the camera. I thought it was aimed at non-techy people, I guess I was wrong. My point is that it would have been cool to see some of the big operators like T-Mobile, AT&T or Orange offer the Neo, or even to be able to walk into a high-street shop and buy one. I wanted to see the industry change and move away from closed phones. In a way, this is beginning to happen (thanks in part to OpenMoko I guess). Just have a look at http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2981287645.html as an example (Motorola's announcement that a native SDK is under development for the Razr2). I just wanted to change the world, that's all! (sob sob). <>___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
Think of it in terms of modularity. You do not have to carry and think about a camera which will quickly become obsolete (or is already obsolete) compared to superior cameras that are available. Phone cameras are almost uniformly terrible, because they are tacked on as extra features with really no impact on the usability of the phone. They just waste money and space producing images which could be beaten by a 2-year-old drawing with crayons. I /hate/ phone cameras, because a horrifying number of people have become convinced they can take lasting photos of important events using their telephones, and they only figure out how wrong they were when it is too late. Sure, your phone doesn't have a camera, but it does have lots of room for expandability. An external camera, actually built specifically to take decent pictures, talking to the phone wirelessly, would work much better. (Except for batteries, which is an interesting problem). Bye, -Dylan McCall On 10/6/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On 6 Oct 2007, at 19:39, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > The neo will not penetrate the consumer market without a camera. > > Not a chance. So, intentional or otherwise, the neo is going to be > > a geek's toy and nothing more. What a shame. > > It won't anyway, it's always going to be a power users toy. It's not > a "branded" device and many people buy on contract. > > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Small menu bar
On 10/5/07, Emre Turkay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi people, > > The menu bar is too small, when using it with finger I have to click > it with my fingernail (and I don't have a biig finger). Well, it works > but it is hard. There's got to be a solution for it. > > What about keeping those 3 bottom buttons of the "today" application > constantly there, like a gnome/kde/windows panel. If you think about > loosing space, we can even have 2 visual profiles, one for finger and > the other for stylus. Which could be switched by holding down a button of some sort? When in the stylus mode a menu bar is shown and > when in the finger mode the panel is shown. > > Anyone ideas about it? > > Thanks, > > emre > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- Sayonara, Kamisamanou Burgess http://www.kamisamanou.net ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
On 6 Oct 2007, at 20:21, Dylan McCall wrote: Think of it in terms of modularity. You do not have to carry and think about a camera which will quickly become obsolete (or is already obsolete) compared to superior cameras that are available. Phone cameras are almost uniformly terrible, because they are tacked on as extra features with really no impact on the usability of the phone. They also take up a lot of room and unless you go for a premium model with decent optics then they're just a gimmic. SLR photography is a hobby and even an APS-C sensor is seen as just good enough. Canon and now Nikon both have 35mm sensors on some of their camera models. So there's no way a tiny sensor in a phone is ever going to be useful for much more than drunken shots in a pub/bar. You can get tiny VGA cameras that fit on your keychain if you desperately need a camera. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: No Camera???
>So there's no way a tiny sensor in a phone is >ever going to be useful for much more than drunken shots in a pub/bar. I agree, and I'm sure that's what most phone cameras are used for. But people want to be able to take awful quality photos of their mates & family doing stupid things, spur of the moment. <>___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Small menu bar
On 10/6/07, Kamisamanou Burgess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 10/5/07, Emre Turkay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi people, > > > > The menu bar is too small, when using it with finger I have to click > > it with my fingernail (and I don't have a biig finger). Well, it works > > but it is hard. There's got to be a solution for it. > > > > What about keeping those 3 bottom buttons of the "today" application > > constantly there, like a gnome/kde/windows panel. If you think about > > loosing space, we can even have 2 visual profiles, one for finger and > > the other for stylus. > > Which could be switched by holding down a button of some sort? Exactly. It can even be automatic (if there is a way to detect the touch surface diameter) or through some kind of touch-gesture. > > > When in the stylus mode a menu bar is shown and > > when in the finger mode the panel is shown. > > > > Anyone ideas about it? > > > > Thanks, > > > > emre > > > > ___ > > OpenMoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > > -- > Sayonara, > Kamisamanou Burgess > http://www.kamisamanou.net > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
On 6 Oct 2007, at 20:50, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So there's no way a tiny sensor in a phone is ever going to be useful for much more than drunken shots in a pub/ bar. I agree, and I'm sure that's what most phone cameras are used for. But people want to be able to take awful quality photos of their mates & family doing stupid things, spur of the moment. Everyone I see taking such shots are using a compact camera. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: No Camera???
>>> So there's no way a tiny sensor in a phone is >>> ever going to be useful for much more than drunken shots in a pub/ >>> bar. >> >> I agree, and I'm sure that's what most phone cameras are used for. >> But people want to be able to take awful quality photos of their >> mates & family doing stupid things, spur of the moment. >> . > >Everyone I see taking such shots are using a compact camera. Wow, you mean you've never seen anyone using the camera on their phone before? The little blighters are everywhere I seem to go. <>___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
So ultimately i think not having a camera might diminish the market, but won't doom the phone. --clayton I have to agree. I personally would like a camera, and if I knew there would be a neo coming out with one in the near future I might even wait for it. But I don't think this will 'doom' the phone, by any means. I'll still be buying my gta02, though I might sell it one day in exchange for one with a camera. The neo is still capable of doing many many things without it being a camera too, its worth it to me to get onto the platform and be in a position to contribute to the community. A phone camera is lousy for taking pictures compared to a real camera. But it is good for taking photos of things when you didn't think to bring a camera with you, or you just don't want to haul around a big phone. I have a nice camera, but I don't take it with me many times because it is so big. For instance, it would be handy to take a picture of a map, and then have it in the phone for reference. Or other documents, like menus, agendas, etc. I like the idea of there being a lot of interesting open source apps to use the camera for the unexpected - like gesture recognition, for instance. Use your hand gestures for gaming. This may be unrealistic given the neo's processing capabilities, but who knows? Ben ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Security in OpenMoko
Hello, On 10/6/07, Cailan Halliday <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey everybody, I just found this device: > http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4756295876.html > I don't know anything about it really, but it's security related and This seems to be a HSM[1] device, it provides a hardware crypto accelerator and a secure key store. HSM's are commonly used on web and / or application servers for secure internet applications. And in PKI solutions. Useful if anybody comes up with application(s) that needs hardware-secured crypto keys on the mobile device. 1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_Security_Module -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Getting the USB Host to work
Hi All, I'm also trying to get the USB Host working on the neo. I've got a kernel running (2.6.22.5-r3) with the USB host patch. I'm logging in over bluetooth (as suggested in the wiki page) and have done an ifdown on usb0 (also recommended on the wiki page). When I echo "host" to usb_mode, I get the following in var/log/messages: Oct 5 22:31:24 fic-gta01 user.warn kernel: s3c2410: changing usb to host Oct 5 22:32:01 fic-gta01 user.err kernel: hub 1-0:1.0: Cannot enable port 2. Maybe the USB cable is bad? Oct 5 22:32:04 fic-gta01 user.err kernel: hub 1-0:1.0: Cannot enable port 2. Maybe the USB cable is bad? Oct 5 22:32:08 fic-gta01 user.err kernel: hub 1-0:1.0: Cannot enable port 2. Maybe the USB cable is bad? This is with nothing plugged into the usb port. When I do plug something in using the cable I made, I get the following: Oct 5 22:32:15 fic-gta01 user.info kernel: usb 1-2: new full speed USB device using s3c2410-ohci and address 41 Oct 5 22:32:15 fic-gta01 user.err kernel: usb 1-2: device descriptor read/64, error -62 Oct 5 22:32:16 fic-gta01 user.err kernel: usb 1-2: device descriptor read/64, error -62 Oct 5 22:32:16 fic-gta01 user.info kernel: usb 1-2: new full speed USB device using s3c2410-ohci and address 42 Oct 5 22:32:16 fic-gta01 user.err kernel: usb 1-2: device descriptor read/64, error -62 Oct 5 22:32:16 fic-gta01 user.err kernel: usb 1-2: device descriptor read/64, error -62 Oct 5 22:32:16 fic-gta01 user.info kernel: usb 1-2: new full speed USB device using s3c2410-ohci and address 43 Oct 5 22:32:17 fic-gta01 user.err kernel: usb 1-2: device not accepting address 43, error -62 Oct 5 22:32:17 fic-gta01 user.info kernel: usb 1-2: new full speed USB device using s3c2410-ohci and address 44 Oct 5 22:32:17 fic-gta01 user.err kernel: usb 1-2: device not accepting address 44, error -62 I'm plugging in an Archos MP3 player which is powered from a separate DC power supply (I'm not applying power to my cable). Any thoughts? Also, I assume you connect the USB cable strait through? red-to-red, black-to-black, green-to-green & white-to-white. You don't have to swap green & white? Cheers, Tom ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
My RAZR was confiscated by the security people when I entered a federal building in Denver. I felt naked without my phone... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
The situation where you absolutely need the camera is after you've been involved in a traffic collision. Hopefully you'll be able to use it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
On 6 Oct 2007, at 21:05, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Wow, you mean you've never seen anyone using the camera on their phone before? The little blighters are everywhere I seem to go. Usually at concerts, idiots watching the whole concert through a 2.5 inch screen instead of watching the band. When I see people in clubs and pubs they have compacts, the reason being you need a proper flash or an SLR to get a good picture in low light. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
I do tech support for phones and I assure that there are many people who don't care about cameras. I knpw because they say exactly that "I don't need a camera". However, based on the number of mms messaging, and problems with this I see, they certainly are popular with a lot of people. Lack of a camera will not doom a phone. Although it is now becoming hard to find one without camera, most have very pitiful camera that take lousy pictures. I have one that takes great pictures, but it's made to specially be a phone blended with camera (sony cybershot) and it works very as a camera and less well as a phone hehe. I can't say that Neo is for non techies. An open source linux based phone where you can compile your own kernel and can get a JTAG adapter for flashing ... for non techies? This is not for non techies. It could have been but then it would not even be released until the software was fully cooked and idiot proofed, and they probably wouldn't be talking about tons of new features. Also, knowing what I do about how phone providers work and how they deal with phone firmware, branding, security, authentication, etc ... You will not see a phone like this sold by a major provider. Not in a fully open source form. They will not allow that. There are many reasons for this which I will not mention, if you don't know them then you don't understand the phone industry. There are sales oriented reasons, security oriented reasons, and branding reasons. A fully open source phone is a provider's nightmare. That does not mean they won't sell to users, but it does mean that providers won't buy them to sell to you, not unless they can erase the flash image, provide their own, prevent the JTAG access, and many other things ... -- Doug ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
The situation where you absolutely need the camera is after you've been involved in a traffic collision. Hopefully you'll be able to use it. I use it for far more than just this sort of thing .. its an info- gathering device. Instead of typing in someones business card, for example, I just take a picture of it and chuck it away .. my contacts database is full of pictures of various things that are related to the contact .. digital cameras are not just a 'pleasure' or 'art' tool, they have a very broad set of highly 'obvious' applications, and for an info-gathering tool such as OpenMoko is becoming, it really does seem pointless not to have video capture on board. But if there were some way we could at least get digital image capture happening over bluetooth, this would be moot - I already carry around a Sony Ericsson phone with me, and if I could at least transfer the photo's easily from that phone to the neo1973, it'd be quite handy. Pun intended. j. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
I do tech support for phones and I assure that there are many people who don't care about cameras. I knpw because they say exactly that "I don't need a camera". Wait until someone actually writes some good applications that use the camera as more than just a holiday-fun activity capture device. For example, I'd love to use the GTA03 as a mouse. This is entirely feasible if it has a camera onboard. ;) j. I can't say that Neo is for non techies. An open source linux based phone where you can compile your own kernel and can get a JTAG adapter for flashing ... for non techies? This is the developer stage, obviously. There's no point for me to be spending so much effort being involved with the developer stage of this phone project, if there isn't at least some promise that on the horizon, OpenMoko will be available to consumers as a platform. I envision that all the effort I'm putting into writing apps for OpenMoko will prove worthwhile, once there are people who can buy OpenMoko-based phones freely on the open market, plug in my feed address, and subscribe to my applications. This would be an awesome relationship, in my opinion, between me (the developer) and (hopefully) thousands of users. If there isn't at least a promise of this on the horizon, there is no point hacking around with OpenMoko - I can get my Linux hacker fix on with plenty of other more viable platforms, in the meantime. Such as for example, the GP2X gaming platform, which shares a lot of similarities with the OpenMoko ethos, even though the users:developers ratio is a lot higher in that realm. I would encourage anyone on this list right now to remember that this is supposed to be the developer-stage ramp-up towards a possible more consumer-oriented future. Please, OpenMoko people, plan to bring products to the market that are *not* so developer focused in the very near future. I would love to have a few thousand normal users plugged into my application feeds, and not just for the fun of it. A fully open source phone is a provider's nightmare. That does not mean they won't sell to users, but it does mean that providers won't buy them to sell to you, not unless they can erase the flash image, provide their own, prevent the JTAG access, and many other things ... All of these tasks can quite easily be wrapped up in a consumer- friendly package, without intruding on any network-provider realities. The fact is that the OpenMoko-based phones are quite functional devices - once people see that there are applications beyond-the-box for the handy they are enslaved by, things will change. I can think of tons of applications for OpenMoko, also, that are not just limited to network-provider metrics; I, for one, would love to see these applications become more broadly acceptable, and thats not going to happen without a little developer investment and faith, no matter what the status quo currently provides, that there will be users one day able to buy hardware to run the cool pocket apps of the future. Such as we are seeing right now with the developer-stages of OpenMoko.. j. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
