Re: Can openmoko and FIC help the Redux model 1?
At a recent conference the hosts gave away a free iPhone to its attendees but they were annoyed that they couldn't buy them in bulk and other things, long story short for the next conference they have proposed designing and building a completely open Internet tablet. I would dearly love being able to buy GTA02's in bulk - say 20 at a time, personally. One of the designs uses the neo1973 and openmoko as its base http://itredux.com/blog/2007/09/17/openmoko/ Might want to check out the GP2X as well: http://www.gp2x.de/cms/index.php http://gbax.com/ With their money and FIC/the openmoko community's experience we could do for Internet tablets what we're doing for phones. .. and then, please, lets do it for synthesizers too. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM Card Copy
I just had an idea that I got from a couple of devices, how about a virtual SIM card? Is it possible to make an ISO of a SIM card and store it in the Neo to be, for lack of a better word, booted from? In general, no. SIM card is a bit more than just a dumb file system.It does has own CPU, file system, etc - all in one IC. When network requests subscriber authentication, request (with random number) is in fact passed to SIM card. Then SIM does computes proper response itself and returns these data to the phone. You can not compute response yourself without having proper card's internal key, known as Ki and once request is a random number, you have no way to craft proper reply without having correct Ki key. This Ki key is being written to the card at manufacturing time.Then, ETSI specs require Ki file to be invalidated.I.e. this file becomes available only to card itself and it's built-in software only.But it should be never sent by the card to outside world.So, card can compute auth.Nobody else can.Except operator's hardware where another Ki copy resides so this hardware can repeat same computations and check if our reply to request is correct. Well, in real world all things are not as ideal as it was intended to be.At least some SIM cards still can be cloned.Initially, algo had cryptographic flaws allowing to recover Ki key if enough responses collected.So there was softwares which issued lots of requests to card and then recomputed Ki key using obtained responses.This requires some noticeable time and physical access to SIM card.However even this does not makes operators too happy.So today most cards are either limited in a number of requests they're willing to serve during their life and dying when this number is exhausted (this causes card to die somewhere in the middle of Ki recovery attempt) or networks are updated to use newer auth algos without such flaws.Cards which are using newer algos can not be cloned since you can't recompute Ki even if you have lots of responses collected.So, in modern world lots of cards can't be copied.You can backup some stuff like SMSes or phonebook or other crap.But you still can't pass authentication without having a real SIM card. Theoretically, phone can compute authentication data on it's own, making virtual SIMs possible (and at least Siemens Mobile did implemented virtual SIM stuff in their phone firmwares for testing and debugging).On a practice however things are limited by your ability to get proper Ki and only if standard auth algo used by the network.In general, you can't expect this to work.Also in OpenMoko hardware design it is probably Calypso GSM modem IC who handles all this low-level GSM network crap on it's own.Inside it's own closed proprietary firmware, making things even harder to implement.I suspect that proprietary firmware is also heavily protected against any unauthorized modifications (Ti is known to be quite paranoid on security stuff).So, this is both hard to implement and OpenMoko isn't a best choice here as well. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: new Qtopia image... Predictive keyboard not being predictive
Wiadomość napisana w dniu Nov 29, 2007, o godz 2:25 AM, przez Lorn Potter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've actually been very lucky with the predictive keyboard. Especially since I have gorilla hands and I'm not very accurate. This is why this keyboard is so awesome, IMHO. You do not have to be stylus accurate to use it. Lorn, maybe you should consider an option to turn off prediction? There are many users who will to use this keyboard but in non-english messages. cayco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: /. : Feds Have Access To Cellphone Tracking On Request
i wholeheartedly support this open platform that gives its users the control to turn -any- of its radios on or off at will (of the operator...). This will not help too much.Either you're not in the network or network should be aware about your location.When someone calls you, network have to select a proper Base Station to enroute call to your mobile, don't you think so?If network has no idea where you are, there is no place to route call.Call fails with subscriber is not available, blah-blah-blah message.Simple?;).Surely all this can be (ab)used.But I see no any realistic way how to avoid this completely.At very most, it is possible to relax things a bit but you can't avoid tracking completely because this means network is unable to route incoming calls to your phone. So... - If you're just an average Joe, relax and enjoy by your 'democracy'.Total control.Sounds so democratic, isn't it?That's how democracy works, after all :P - If you're an IT pro and really willing to do something unfair, you're probably know how to avoid this dumb issue anyway ;) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OpenMoko OE repository
Dear Community, The official OpenEmbedded repository to build the OpenMoko distribution can be found at monotone.openmoko.org. If you're using MokoMakefile, please refer to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MonotoneServer#Using_MokoMakefile for instructions about how to switch. Quotes from wiki page: Currently, monotone.openmoko.org serves the OpenEmbedded branch org.openembedded.dev. In contrast to the main OpenEmbedded server monotone.openembedded.org, the repository monotone.openmoko.org is a couple of days behind. This is to ensure that the metadata is always in a consistent state that allows you to build the OpenMoko distribution. This is part of the work from the tools team of OpenMoko, lead by Mickey. The current repository maintainer is [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Enjoy! Cheers, John ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko OE repository
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MonotoneServer#Using_MokoMakefile for instructions about how to switch. Alas, the Wiki has some ambiguous language: If you're using MokoMakefile, you will need to replace `monotone.openembedded.org' by `monotone.openmoko.org' in your Makefile. Then, do the following: So do we replace monotone.openembedded.org *WITH* monotone.openmoko.org? I suppose so. A bit confusing though, and especially if you're not a native english speaker this could get muddled .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko OE repository
By the way, this: Once every couple of days, the operator pulls a seperate database (i.e. _not_ on this server, but some private experimental build machine) from monotone.openembedded.org (let's say to revision X) and tries to build the OpenMoko distribution. If that fails, she/he will investigate the breakage and report to [[1]]. If the build completes, she/he will flash the resulting openmoko-image and go through a series of tests. If all tests can be completed successfully, the operator will update monotone.openmoko.org to revision X as well Is Great News! Speaking as one who has struggled in the last few months to keep a stable OpenMoko development environment, and also as one who has complained about it rather a bit loudly at times, I'd just like to say: THANK YOU!! Also, in the last few weeks things have really stabilized with the toolchain for openmoko, and I for one am enjoying the fruits that this wonderful tree provides .. hacking away on new apps fro openmoko is indeed a joy and privilege! ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko OE repository
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 10:32:33AM +0100, Jay Vaughan wrote: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MonotoneServer#Using_MokoMakefile Following these instructions to a tee I get the following result: fi mtn: misuse: database /home/j/hak/openmoko/OE.mtn is laid out according to an old schema mtn: misuse: try 'mtn db migrate' to upgrade mtn: misuse: (this is irreversible; you may want to make a backup copy first) mtn: misuse: database /home/j/hak/openmoko/OE.mtn is laid out according to an old schema mtn: misuse: try 'mtn db migrate' to upgrade mtn: misuse: (this is irreversible; you may want to make a backup copy first) make: *** [update-mtn] Error 1 I'm going to do the 'mtn db migrate' .. ; -- Jay Vaughan Yes, the monotone version problem... We need to provide mtn bz2 packages for different version of monotones. Working on that know... `mtn db migrate' is really slow. :p - John ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OpenMoko OE repository not quite ready for MokoMakefile production usage
John Lee wrote: The official OpenEmbedded repository to build the OpenMoko distribution can be found at monotone.openmoko.org. If you're using MokoMakefile, please refer to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MonotoneServer#Using_MokoMakefile for instructions about how to switch. There is one issue which means that MokoMakefile cannot change over to using the new area yet. I have discussed this with John, but am reporting here so people don't continually ask me why MokoMakefile hasn't changed yet. The issue is that new OpenMoko mtn database snapshot area at http://downloads.openmoko.org/OE/snapshots/ only contains a single unversioned mtn database. MokoMakefile currently identifies the user's monotone version, and downloads the correctly versioned mtn database from http://www.openembedded.org/snapshots/ (look there to see the naming convention and list of 6 different mtn versions that are supported). Only if it cannot match the exact version does it fall-back to using the unversioned snapshot. Unless OpenMoko is going to require a specific Linux distribution and monotone version for building the OpenMoko distribution, I would prefer to wait until OpenMoko replicates this facility for their developers before I change the MokoMakefile, otherwise we will have *many* new users having problems with monotone database migrations, and negating the ease of setup that MokoMakefile currently provides. I have given John details on how to do this - I'm sure Graeme or Mickey can get the older mtn binaries from Koen to implement it. I've asked John to let me know as soon as there are correctly labelled versions in http://downloads.openmoko.org/OE/snapshots/, and I will immediately update MokoMakefile to use the new area when that happens. -- Rod Whitby -- MokoMakefile author ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM Card Copy
AFAIK, the duplicate SIM cards are not equivalent cards. They have different IMSI and different Ki code. Only the network's configuration bind them to the same phone number. Theoretically you could have a dozen of them, but usually only one is allowed to receive the calls. This should clarify the questions regarding chances of hacking the Ki code by obtaining multiple cards to have more chances before lockout. (Those limits are so low on som SIMs, that they died after 2-3 years in hands some of daily traveling business mans:-) ) It also explains that the operator will always be able to trace every single SIM card by IMSI, if they want. So, don't be too happy with second SIM cards. They really help you only when you have a second outdoor phone and don't like to swap the SIM every time you go to mountains.. Atlasz SIM cards are smartcards. They can not be copied by design! The only way to duplicate a SIM is to hack it. No idea if and how far that is possible. But it is certainly not legal. Ask your provider for a duplicate SIM. Many providers will give you multiple identical SIM if you need them. (At least here in germany) Cailan Halliday wrote: I just had an idea that I got from a couple of devices, how about a virtual SIM card? Is it possible to make an ISO of a SIM card and store it in the Neo to be, for lack of a better word, booted from? I've seen devices like these: http://www.thetravelinsider.com/phones/simsaver.htm http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/cellphone/9ca8/ This could replace the idea of having multiple SIM card slots, this way you can have multiple carriers on your phone without the need for more slots. -Cailan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community _ Potrebujete vediet, ake pocasie bude na Slovensku aj vo svete. http://www.msn.sk/weather ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM Card Copy
I don't even understand how it's possible to register to the network with a different Ki! 2007/11/29, KISS Attila [EMAIL PROTECTED]: AFAIK, the duplicate SIM cards are not equivalent cards. They have different IMSI and different Ki code. Only the network's configuration bind them to the same phone number. Theoretically you could have a dozen of them, but usually only one is allowed to receive the calls. This should clarify the questions regarding chances of hacking the Ki code by obtaining multiple cards to have more chances before lockout. (Those limits are so low on som SIMs, that they died after 2-3 years in hands some of daily traveling business mans:-) ) It also explains that the operator will always be able to trace every single SIM card by IMSI, if they want. So, don't be too happy with second SIM cards. They really help you only when you have a second outdoor phone and don't like to swap the SIM every time you go to mountains.. Atlasz SIM cards are smartcards. They can not be copied by design! The only way to duplicate a SIM is to hack it. No idea if and how far that is possible. But it is certainly not legal. Ask your provider for a duplicate SIM. Many providers will give you multiple identical SIM if you need them. (At least here in germany) Cailan Halliday wrote: I just had an idea that I got from a couple of devices, how about a virtual SIM card? Is it possible to make an ISO of a SIM card and store it in the Neo to be, for lack of a better word, booted from? I've seen devices like these: http://www.thetravelinsider.com/phones/simsaver.htm http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/cellphone/9ca8/ This could replace the idea of having multiple SIM card slots, this way you can have multiple carriers on your phone without the need for more slots. -Cailan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community _ Potrebujete vediet, ake pocasie bude na Slovensku aj vo svete. http://www.msn.sk/weather ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Sébastien LORQUET - 이세영 (李世榮) Ingénieur ENSPG 2006 / ENSIMAG-ASI 2007 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Michael Shiloh interview on The Linux Link Tech Show
I haven't listened very far, so maybe it'll be said, but at what offset is the interview? The interview starts 00:02:18 into the show. It sounds like we end the interview after an hour but Michael sticks around for quite a bit longer to talk about some other topics. He was extremely gracious with his time. Pat -- http://tllts.org/ - The Linux Link Tech Show http://pdavila.homelinux.org:8080/blog/ - My blog -- http://tllts.org/ - The Linux Link Tech Show http://pdavila.homelinux.org:8080/blog/ - My blog ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Michael Shiloh interview on The Linux Link Tech Show
Hello Patrick, On Nov 29, 2007 1:25 PM, Patrick Davila [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael was gracious enough to come on our show and talk about the great work you guys are doing: http://www.tllts.org/audio/tllts_221-11-28-07.ogg http://www.tllts.org/audio/tllts_221-11-28-07.mp3 I haven't listened very far, so maybe it'll be said, but at what offset is the interview? Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Michael Shiloh interview on The Linux Link Tech Show
Christ van Willegen wrote: Hello Patrick, On Nov 29, 2007 1:25 PM, Patrick Davila [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael was gracious enough to come on our show and talk about the great work you guys are doing: http://www.tllts.org/audio/tllts_221-11-28-07.ogg http://www.tllts.org/audio/tllts_221-11-28-07.mp3 I haven't listened very far, so maybe it'll be said, but at what offset is the interview? Christ van Willegen after aprox. one minute you will hear the interview. stay on :-) mariner ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Michael Shiloh interview on The Linux Link Tech Show
Thanx for scharing, I'm just listening, but why is the woman in background always screaming :-) Some girl from Taipeh? Patrick Davila wrote: Michael was gracious enough to come on our show and talk about the great work you guys are doing: http://www.tllts.org/audio/tllts_221-11-28-07.ogg http://www.tllts.org/audio/tllts_221-11-28-07.mp3 Enjoy smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Michael Shiloh interview on The Linux Link Tech Show
I'm just listening, but why is the woman in background always screaming :-) Some girl from Taipeh? Oh, that's Dan's wife yelling at his kids. We really need to get him a microphone with an on/off switch. :) -- http://tllts.org/ - The Linux Link Tech Show http://pdavila.homelinux.org:8080/blog/ - My blog ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
Robin Paulson wrote: it's a phone app that reports the remaining battery life, when shaken, by making sloshing sounds - the more battery, the more 'full' it sounds what a wonderfully inventive use of accelerometers ...and i was wondering what they would be good for. How much pot was involved in the idea? I can't wait to get my Neo. When exactly is february? timbo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Michael Shiloh interview on The Linux Link Tech Show
Patrick Davila wrote: Michael was gracious enough to come on our show and talk about the great work you guys are doing: http://www.tllts.org/audio/tllts_221-11-28-07.ogg http://www.tllts.org/audio/tllts_221-11-28-07.mp3 Enjoy On the contrary, Patrick was gracious enough to have me on the show. Patrick and the rest of the TLLTS crew asked excellent questions. I hope my answers were clear and meaningful. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Michael Shiloh interview on The Linux Link Tech Show
Patrick Davila wrote: I haven't listened very far, so maybe it'll be said, but at what offset is the interview? The interview starts 00:02:18 into the show. It sounds like we end the interview after an hour but Michael sticks around for quite a bit longer to talk about some other topics. He was extremely gracious with his time. Gah! All my ramblings after the show were recorded as well? :-) Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
what a wonderfully inventive use of accelerometers ...and i was wondering what they would be good for. feedback for controlling a live music sequencer while on stage in front of 10's of thousands of people .. How much pot was involved in the idea? probably a lot. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Michael Shiloh interview on The Linux Link Tech Show
Patrick Davila wrote: Michael was gracious enough to come on our show and talk about the great work you guys are doing: http://www.tllts.org/audio/tllts_221-11-28-07.ogg http://www.tllts.org/audio/tllts_221-11-28-07.mp3 Enjoy I was relieved to hear that 850 mhz seems to be a sure thing - according to the interview there will be two versions of the phone, one for the US (or other 850mhz countries) and one for the rest of the world. I assume the US version will be delayed compared to the 900mhz version, but still great its news. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Michael Shiloh interview on The Linux Link Tech Show
Gah! All my ramblings after the show were recorded as well? The show is usually 2 hours long. We try to wear down our guests so let their guard down then hit them up with the real questions. Go listen to our first interview with RMS for a perfect example :) Pat -- http://tllts.org/ - The Linux Link Tech Show http://pdavila.homelinux.org:8080/blog/ - My blog ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Michael Shiloh interview on The Linux Link Tech Show
Ben Burdette wrote: Patrick Davila wrote: Michael was gracious enough to come on our show and talk about the great work you guys are doing: http://www.tllts.org/audio/tllts_221-11-28-07.ogg http://www.tllts.org/audio/tllts_221-11-28-07.mp3 Enjoy I was relieved to hear that 850 mhz seems to be a sure thing - according to the interview there will be two versions of the phone, one for the US (or other 850mhz countries) and one for the rest of the world. I assume the US version will be delayed compared to the 900mhz version, but still great its news. Hi Ben, That we're looking into it is a sure thing. That we'll succeed is not, although it's likely. We can't guarantee anything until we test it, purchase the different components, resolve any certification issues, etc. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Can openmoko and FIC help the Redux model 1?
FIC are planning to do this with GTA02, so local resellers can distribute them instead of end users paying for international shipping and tax like us lot with our GTA01's. give me 20 phones in a neat box just like the gta01 arrived in, and i'll do my best to sell a box a week. seriously! ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
On 30/11/2007, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what a wonderfully inventive use of accelerometers ...and i was wondering what they would be good for. feedback for controlling a live music sequencer while on stage in front of 10's of thousands of people .. original sloshing indicator added to the wiki wish list. Jay, would you care to elaborate on your idea, sounds interesting? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Michael Shiloh interview on The Linux Link Tech Show
On Nov 29, 2007, at 1:24 PM, Ben Burdette wrote: I was relieved to hear that 850 mhz seems to be a sure thing - according to the interview there will be two versions of the phone, one for the US (or other 850mhz countries) and one for the rest of the world. I assume the US version will be delayed compared to the 900mhz version, but still great its news. Oof. Personally, even though I live in the U.S. I'd probably rather have a 900MHz phone than an 850MHz phone because I can get pretty good coverage here even without 850MHz, whereas in Europe it's going to be difficult for me to know in advance whether or not a particular SIM card I might buy at the airport will work well for me without 900MHz coverage. I guess it's probably impossible for the GTA02, but quad band really is a key feature. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Can openmoko and FIC help the Redux model 1?
On 29/11/2007, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: give me 20 phones in a neat box just like the gta01 arrived in, and i'll do my best to sell a box a week. seriously! The current plan is to_sell_them. seriously! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
feedback for controlling a live music sequencer while on stage in front of 10's of thousands of people .. original sloshing indicator added to the wiki wish list. Jay, would you care to elaborate on your idea, sounds interesting? well .. consider the openmoko/neo1973 device more of a re- configurable user interface 'pad', than a cell phone. a poor (but wise) mans optimus maximus .. sort of a 'mini one' with a cell phone in it, so its .. you know .. actually useful as a user interface device. its all about how it feels, and what it does when you touch it. if i could, i'd use the neo instead of my logitech mouse. now, on stage, if its in my pocket, i'd love to be able to shake it when it buzzes, and hold it still when it shrills, and if only for a few lines of code, there would be music. or not ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Canadian government opens wireless spectrum (was Re: Sean's impact being felt...)
On 29/11/2007, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Verizon Wireless opens up In a stunning about-face, the second-largest wireless carrier in the US, Verizon Wireless, has said that it would allow any compatible device to run on its cellular network by the end of next year. What's more, users will be able to run any application they wish, Verizon Wireless said. bloody hell, that was quick to have a knock-on effect http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/29/0519223 and TFA http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/11/28/auction.html in summary: more competition less power to the monopolies more opportunities for innovation ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
Personally, I'd like to see it blink on and off, and scream when you shook, then I could show my friends my possessed linux phone. On Nov 29, 2007 1:15 PM, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: feedback for controlling a live music sequencer while on stage in front of 10's of thousands of people .. original sloshing indicator added to the wiki wish list. Jay, would you care to elaborate on your idea, sounds interesting? well .. consider the openmoko/neo1973 device more of a re- configurable user interface 'pad', than a cell phone. a poor (but wise) mans optimus maximus .. sort of a 'mini one' with a cell phone in it, so its .. you know .. actually useful as a user interface device. its all about how it feels, and what it does when you touch it. if i could, i'd use the neo instead of my logitech mouse. now, on stage, if its in my pocket, i'd love to be able to shake it when it buzzes, and hold it still when it shrills, and if only for a few lines of code, there would be music. or not ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Canadian government opens wireless spectrum (was Re: Sean's impact being felt...)
On Nov 29, 2007 2:21 PM, Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 29/11/2007, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Verizon Wireless opens up In a stunning about-face, the second-largest wireless carrier in the US, Verizon Wireless, has said that it would allow any compatible device to run on its cellular network by the end of next year. What's more, users will be able to run any application they wish, Verizon Wireless said. bloody hell, that was quick to have a knock-on effect http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/29/0519223 and TFA http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/11/28/auction.html in summary: more competition less power to the monopolies more opportunities for innovation omg yes! They saw the light! -Nick (in canada) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
On Nov 29, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Tim Shannon wrote: Personally, I'd like to see it blink on and off, and scream when you shook, then I could show my friends my possessed linux phone. i bet you can do that in about 3 line of code once the gta02 arrives. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: /. : Feds Have Access To Cellphone Tracking On Request
This strikes me as a uninteligible answer: 2007/11/29, t3st3r [EMAIL PROTECTED]: i wholeheartedly support this open platform that gives its users the control to turn -any- of its radios on or off at will (of the operator...). This will not help too much.Either you're not in the network or network should be aware about your location.When someone calls you (...) If I don't want to be located, I don't want to be called, either -- think plane mode, no radios on but MP3/AVI player on, agenda on, text editor on, etc. That is what people meant when they say turn off any of its radios at will. I want to have a check button saying GSM radio on/off, other saying GPS radio on/off, other saying WiFi radio on/off. So I can ... drumroll ... turn them off _at_ _will_. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: /. : Feds Have Access To Cellphone Tracking On Request
I thought I should elaborate: 2007/11/29, Humberto Massa [EMAIL PROTECTED]: If I don't want to be located, I don't want to be called, either -- think plane mode, no radios on but MP3/AVI player on, agenda on, text editor on, etc. That is what people meant when they say turn off any of its radios at will. I want to have a check button saying GSM radio on/off, other saying GPS radio on/off, other saying WiFi radio on/off. So I can ... drumroll ... turn them off _at_ _will_. Mode of operation: stealth. from time to time, i press a button turn GSM radio on, check voicemail, download all messages, turn GSM radio off. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GPS driver for GTA01 available
Hello, Thanks to a tremendous amount of hard work by many people, we have ready a release of gllin, the GPS drives. Here is how you can get it: 1. Visit http://3rdparty.downloads.openmoko.org/ Enter the gllin directory and accept the EULA 2. Download and install gllin_1.0+r350-r0_fic-gta01.ipk to Neo, something like: scp gllin_1.0+r350-r0_fic-gta01.ipk [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/tmp/ ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] cd /tmp ipkg install gllin_1.0\+r350-r0_fic-gta01.ipk 3. On Neo: cd /home/root/gllin ./gllin 4. In another shell, cat /tmp/nmeaP you should see the NMEA data coming in now, something like this: $GPGGA,235946.99,00,00,5.0,,M,0.0001999,M,0.0020199,*57 $GPRMC,235946.99,V,,,120180,,,N*78 $GPGSA,A,1,11.2,5.0,10.0*36 $PGLOR,IGR,81.2,7,71397,0,1*02 $GPGGA,235946.99,00,00,5.0,,M,0.0001999,M,0.0020199,*57 $GPRMC,235946.99,V,,,120180,,,N*78 $GPGSA,A,1,11.2,5.0,10.0*36 $GPGGA,235946.99,00,00,5.0,,M,0.0001999,M,0.0020199,*57 After a while you should get a fix, and then it looks like this: $GPGGA,194851.00,3746.451804,N,12230.144387,W,1,04,0.5,029.0,M,0.053001,M,0.0090515,*50 $GPRMC,194851.00,A,3746.451804,N,12230.144387,W,000.0,300.0,291107,,,A*46 $GPGSV,2,1,07,04,60,088,32,09,59,256,21,02,54,168,34,12,38,310,33*78 $GPGSV,2,2,07,17,25,056,,05,21,306,,28,08,110,*4D $GPGSA,A,3,02,04,09,12,1.1,0.5,1.0*3A $PGLOR,FIX,1.0,ST,U,NS,A,DR,N,PS,A*2A Note that the GPGSA line changed from A,1 to A,3. That shows that you now have a fix. Your location will be in the first line (GPGGA). In the sample above, I'm at 37 degrees 46.451804 minutes North 122 degrees 30.144387 minutes west Which is correct for me. Have fun! Regards, Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS driver for GTA01 available
awesome! thanks guys! -Kyle On Nov 29, 2007 3:25 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Thanks to a tremendous amount of hard work by many people, we have ready a release of gllin, the GPS drives. Here is how you can get it: 1. Visit http://3rdparty.downloads.openmoko.org/ Enter the gllin directory and accept the EULA 2. Download and install gllin_1.0+r350-r0_fic-gta01.ipk to Neo, something like: scp gllin_1.0+r350-r0_fic-gta01.ipk [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/tmp/ ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] cd /tmp ipkg install gllin_1.0\+r350-r0_fic-gta01.ipk 3. On Neo: cd /home/root/gllin ./gllin 4. In another shell, cat /tmp/nmeaP you should see the NMEA data coming in now, something like this: $GPGGA,235946.99,00,00,5.0,,M,0.0001999,M,0.0020199,*57 $GPRMC,235946.99,V,,,120180,,,N*78 $GPGSA,A,1,11.2,5.0,10.0*36 $PGLOR,IGR,81.2,7,71397,0,1*02 $GPGGA,235946.99,00,00,5.0,,M,0.0001999,M,0.0020199,*57 $GPRMC,235946.99,V,,,120180,,,N*78 $GPGSA,A,1,11.2,5.0,10.0*36 $GPGGA,235946.99,00,00,5.0,,M,0.0001999,M,0.0020199,*57 After a while you should get a fix, and then it looks like this: $GPGGA,194851.00,3746.451804,N,12230.144387,W,1,04,0.5,029.0,M,0.053001,M, 0.0090515,*50 $GPRMC,194851.00,A,3746.451804,N,12230.144387,W,000.0,300.0,291107,,,A*46 $GPGSV,2,1,07,04,60,088,32,09,59,256,21,02,54,168,34,12,38,310,33*78 $GPGSV,2,2,07,17,25,056,,05,21,306,,28,08,110,*4D $GPGSA,A,3,02,04,09,12,1.1,0.5,1.0*3A $PGLOR,FIX,1.0,ST,U,NS,A,DR,N,PS,A*2A Note that the GPGSA line changed from A,1 to A,3. That shows that you now have a fix. Your location will be in the first line (GPGGA). In the sample above, I'm at 37 degrees 46.451804 minutes North 122 degrees 30.144387 minutes west Which is correct for me. Have fun! Regards, Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS driver for GTA01 available
This phone is going to be so great for geoCaching. On Nov 29, 2007 2:25 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Thanks to a tremendous amount of hard work by many people, we have ready a release of gllin, the GPS drives. Here is how you can get it: 1. Visit http://3rdparty.downloads.openmoko.org/ Enter the gllin directory and accept the EULA 2. Download and install gllin_1.0+r350-r0_fic-gta01.ipk to Neo, something like: scp gllin_1.0+r350-r0_fic-gta01.ipk [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/tmp/ ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] cd /tmp ipkg install gllin_1.0\+r350-r0_fic-gta01.ipk 3. On Neo: cd /home/root/gllin ./gllin 4. In another shell, cat /tmp/nmeaP you should see the NMEA data coming in now, something like this: $GPGGA,235946.99,00,00,5.0,,M,0.0001999,M,0.0020199,*57 $GPRMC,235946.99,V,,,120180,,,N*78 $GPGSA,A,1,11.2,5.0,10.0*36 $PGLOR,IGR,81.2,7,71397,0,1*02 $GPGGA,235946.99,00,00,5.0,,M,0.0001999,M,0.0020199,*57 $GPRMC,235946.99,V,,,120180,,,N*78 $GPGSA,A,1,11.2,5.0,10.0*36 $GPGGA,235946.99,00,00,5.0,,M,0.0001999,M,0.0020199,*57 After a while you should get a fix, and then it looks like this: $GPGGA,194851.00,3746.451804,N,12230.144387,W,1,04,0.5,029.0,M,0.053001,M, 0.0090515,*50 $GPRMC,194851.00,A,3746.451804,N,12230.144387,W,000.0,300.0,291107,,,A*46 $GPGSV,2,1,07,04,60,088,32,09,59,256,21,02,54,168,34,12,38,310,33*78 $GPGSV,2,2,07,17,25,056,,05,21,306,,28,08,110,*4D $GPGSA,A,3,02,04,09,12,1.1,0.5,1.0*3A $PGLOR,FIX,1.0,ST,U,NS,A,DR,N,PS,A*2A Note that the GPGSA line changed from A,1 to A,3. That shows that you now have a fix. Your location will be in the first line (GPGGA). In the sample above, I'm at 37 degrees 46.451804 minutes North 122 degrees 30.144387 minutes west Which is correct for me. Have fun! Regards, Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS driver for GTA01 available
Hello, nice progress indeed. Just by curiosity, is it known if the power consumption of a GPS component (active) is important (wrt other components of the phone, like LCD screen, GSM, etc.) Rodolphe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS driver for GTA01 available
On 30/11/2007, Rodolphe Ortalo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, nice progress indeed. Just by curiosity, is it known if the power consumption of a GPS component (active) is important (wrt other components of the phone, like LCD screen, GSM, etc.) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management#Approximate_power_draw_of_various_subsystems ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS driver for GTA01 available
Thanks! (Did not know that page.) Rodolphe Le vendredi 30 novembre 2007 à 10:14 +1300, Robin Paulson a écrit : On 30/11/2007, Rodolphe Ortalo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, nice progress indeed. Just by curiosity, is it known if the power consumption of a GPS component (active) is important (wrt other components of the phone, like LCD screen, GSM, etc.) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management#Approximate_power_draw_of_various_subsystems ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS driver for GTA01 available
Another application for people to play with, while they're testing their GPS's... http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Pyroute Regards, OJW ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS driver for GTA01 available
On Nov 29, 2007 1:25 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks to a tremendous amount of hard work by many people, we have ready a release of gllin, the GPS drives. Here is how you can get it: This is really great news! Thanks to everyone who helped to make it possible. I've already tested it, and (subject to my limited ability to read raw NMEA) it works. Tonight I will probably spend some more time testing with some sort of GUI app. Next it would be nice to have a version with the new ABI, so that not so much stuff has to be packaged with it (and loaded into RAM too). Hopefully the legal negotiations will be continued to make that possible as well (I'm assuming that's still the holdup?) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS driver for GTA01 available
Shawn Rutledge wrote: On Nov 29, 2007 1:25 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks to a tremendous amount of hard work by many people, we have ready a release of gllin, the GPS drives. Here is how you can get it: This is really great news! Thanks to everyone who helped to make it possible. I've already tested it, and (subject to my limited ability to read raw NMEA) it works. Tonight I will probably spend some more time testing with some sort of GUI app. Next it would be nice to have a version with the new ABI, so that not so much stuff has to be packaged with it (and loaded into RAM too). I think I could release that, but be aware that it doesn't work. (otherwise we would never had to release the wrapper-oabi one). If you're into low-level debugging arbitrary binaries, you could help us getting it fixed. -- - Michael Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the worlds' first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS driver for GTA01 available
Shawn Rutledge wrote: On Nov 29, 2007 5:18 PM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I could release that, but be aware that it doesn't work. (otherwise we would never had to release the wrapper-oabi one). If you're into low-level debugging arbitrary binaries, you could help us getting it fixed. So the problem is they won't give you the source code to build a new one, even under NDA? Correct. Or build it for you using the current compiler/libs/etc? What if you give them a ready-to-go Linux image with a precompiled OE tree so they can compile it for you? The eabi-agps binary I have _has_ been compiled by GL with an OE-built toolchain I gave them. Alas, it still doesn't work and there could be a ton of reasons for that (different EABI/OABI alignment, attribute packing, maybe recompile everything, used the wrong CFLAGS, etc. etc.). GL has no intention to look further into this issue, so we either use the OABI one or find out what's wrong with the EABI one. Binaries... you know *sigh* -- - Michael Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the worlds' first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS driver for GTA01 available
On Nov 29, 2007 5:18 PM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I could release that, but be aware that it doesn't work. (otherwise we would never had to release the wrapper-oabi one). If you're into low-level debugging arbitrary binaries, you could help us getting it fixed. So the problem is they won't give you the source code to build a new one, even under NDA? Or build it for you using the current compiler/libs/etc? What if you give them a ready-to-go Linux image with a precompiled OE tree so they can compile it for you? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Update
Curiosity prevails: I do see a few benefits to a device which is just a GPS radio, like what Ian has stated. Would their be any legal ramifications to a reverse-engineered open source binary interpreter for the GPS radio? I saw a few people mention government concerns with having access to a very accurate GPS device, but what about Global Locate's license agreement (if any) by using their hardware? I think a GPS radio would make an excellent open source project; allowing access to the specifics of GPS (theory) not available with closed firmware. I wouldn't mind working on this project. -Kyle On Nov 29, 2007 9:46 PM, Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doug Sutherland wrote: Mikko wrote: 2) Yes, it can make sense not to have a bazillion CPUs on board from various perspectives. I evaluated no less than 25 different GPS modules some years ago and compared them in all important aspects. Every single one had a microcontroller onboard. I do not agree that it makes any sense at all not to choose one of these types. They are down to the size of a thumbnail almost. Is the microcontroller a CPU, technically yes, but it's part of the receiver, and you want to do all this fancy GUI and not suck the life of the battery from ARM9 usage. It is a good thing they ditched that GPS. It is now standard that any GPS module does have a microcontroller inside, most commonly some variant of ARM7, super low power, you never deal with any firmware. (sorry for the late response) To clarify why it might be nice - yes there are simplicity benefits from just using a GPS with a NMEA output (or at least with that as an option) If the existing hardware had an open-source driver (there was some progress towards such, but this has stalled since it was announced it would not be used in GTA02) then many of these objections go away. The following is based on preliminary work that has not been completed, and due to the lack of work on the current GPS may never be. The device is basically only a software radio, that does the absolute minimum to enable the host to avoid having to do hard-real time stuff, 115200 baud serial is just fine. As I understand it, the following things are possible, which are difficult to do with 'normal' chipsets. Wakeup once every 3 minutes for 1s, to maintain lock on satellites, keeping a reasonable (say 50m) position accuracy, with the GPS totally off in the interim. This (with the mobile phone part off) uses a very small amount of power, enough to track for around 8 months. Logging all parameters of the signal that the chip measures in hardware, so that the track can be post-processed for better accuracy. The option of delaying the output of the signal by 10s+, and being able to smooth the output based on the 'future' movement, not just the past. (this can dramatically improve tracks round sharp corners) Being able to feed in information from the accelerometers to go into the position solution. (this is mainly useful in cars - the accels give you good turn rate info) Using even 'failed' GPS satellites as position sources, with the aid of AGPS (however, this is unlikely to be of use unless the GPS system stops being maintained) Easy tradeoffs between output noise and update frequency - few devices support updates faster than 1Hz. User-provided AGPS correction information. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM Card Copy
Every SIM has it's unique IMSI and Ki (these are tied together), but they may have assigned the same MSISDN by HLR. If there are more cards connected, the network will route the call to the card with higher priority or to the one, which did the last location area update. The process itself is a bit more complicated, but there are a lots of descriptions of this process over the internet. I never had a need to look at this problem of having two SIMs with the same phone number, but this is the only systematic solution I could think of now. I don't even understand how it's possible to register to the network with a different Ki! 2007/11/29, KISS Attila [EMAIL PROTECTED]: AFAIK, the duplicate SIM cards are not equivalent cards. They have different IMSI and different Ki code. Only the network's configuration bind them to the same phone number. Theoretically you could have a dozen of them, but usually only one is allowed to receive the calls. This should clarify the questions regarding chances of hacking the Ki code by obtaining multiple cards to have more chances before lockout. (Those limits are so low on som SIMs, that they died after 2-3 years in hands some of daily traveling business mans:-) ) It also explains that the operator will always be able to trace every single SIM card by IMSI, if they want. So, don't be too happy with second SIM cards. They really help you only when you have a second outdoor phone and don't like to swap the SIM every time you go to mountains.. Atlasz SIM cards are smartcards. They can not be copied by design! The only way to duplicate a SIM is to hack it. No idea if and how far that is possible. But it is certainly not legal. Ask your provider for a duplicate SIM. Many providers will give you multiple identical SIM if you need them. (At least here in germany) Cailan Halliday wrote: I just had an idea that I got from a couple of devices, how about a virtual SIM card? Is it possible to make an ISO of a SIM card and store it in the Neo to be, for lack of a better word, booted from? I've seen devices like these: http://www.thetravelinsider.com/phones/simsaver.htm http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/cellphone/9ca8/ This could replace the idea of having multiple SIM card slots, this way you can have multiple carriers on your phone without the need for more slots. -Cailan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community _ Potrebujete vediet, ake pocasie bude na Slovensku aj vo svete. http://www.msn.sk/weather ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Sébastien LORQUET - ì´ì¸ì (李ä¸æ¦®) Ingénieur ENSPG 2006 / ENSIMAG-ASI 2007 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community _ MSN Pocasie vam umozni naplanovat si den a tyzden.. http://www.msn.sk/weather ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
