Re: Kill The Clock
This brings me to a idea. Do we have some central repository (wiki?) where all gconf options are documented? Since we don't have a control-GUI yet, this seems to me like a very nice thing to have... Christopher Earl wrote: Someone asked about killing the Huge clock that takes up the whole display quicksand on #openmoko gave me this, it makes the clock real small and docks it on the date bar This works from ssh dbus-launch gconftool-2 --type bool --set /desktop/poky/interface/small_clock true ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Patents and OpenMoko
Jon Radel schrieb: Vasco Névoa wrote: Hi. Sorry to barge in like this, but I don't quite understand the problem to begin with... Isn't open source code by definition protected against subsequent patents? It is part of the patenting process to search for conflicting publications; if they find any, then the candidate idea is not a novelty and cannot be patented. Publishing is the best weapon against (subsequent) patents: cheap and effective. I think we should just add some way to automatically timestamp every code check-in in a legally binding way, like using some outside certification entity's digital signature (that carries a legally recognizable timestamp). An open-source public repository is a valid publication of ideas, which are therefore not patentable. What do you think? Bogdan Bivolaru already pointed out some practical issues with your theoretical outline. However, there are some additional issues: The biggest in my view is that you seem to assume that open source developers somehow (magic?) manage to write only code which does not infringe (in somebody's eyes) on existing patents, or won't infringe on already filed patents that haven't been published yet. There are even legal reasons to avoid doing a patent search before you start developing something, as you then avoid knowingly infringing, which makes a difference, at least in the US. How do you want to proove that either you did or did not do that research? This is quite pointless. Of course it makes a difference if you knew about it or not but you can perfectly well do an anonymous research yourself without leaving any proof (and it is agood avise to do so in order not to start large developments in areas that are already a patent mine field - been there done that in the area of motion detection and picture recognition and subesquently stopped certain developments). Then there's the practical matter that if you have a collection of patents you can frequently come to some cross-licensing agreement if someone else in your industry starts hassling you with their patents. If you have nothing, it's much easier for them to grind you into the dirt, if only with legal fees, if they so desire. Here some more resonability would be good. So let's think, who are the most likely players that could sue a company like OpenMoko working in the mobile phone area? Other mobile phone makers. Who are those? Nokia, NEC, Samsung, Qualcom, Lenovo, HTC,... All those companies are magnitudes larger than a start-up like OpenMoko. The cross licensing trick goes like this: You infringe on somebody else's patent (knowingly or not aside). They come to you and threaten you with sueing you - you shiver and fear they are taking you out of business. Now you go down your cellar and browse your patent pool and look at the other's products if they could possibly by coincidence (- this is the point here!) infringe on one of your patents. So now step back and calculate the probably that the other party really infringes one of your patents? If there is Qualcom vs. Nokia then there is a good chance but those two do this business for decades and are huge companies. For a small company even if you are able to find an infringed patent they come up with at least a dozen more of your infringements. As a small company you will loose, no way around it and the dream of cross licensing is for small and new players just a dream. It is unrealistic to assume that it could work. For small businesses the only way to benefit from patents is to have a real new invention and license it to some bigger player and make money from it. To the special case of OpenMoko as long as the GTA devices are concerned they have no single piece (sorry, no offense!) of great invention in them that would be a good candidate for a patent. And even if you can probably construct, with a lot of extra inspiration, say, 10 patents on soft- and hardware? Maybe 20? But that's about it. And now go back to those big players and count their's - IBM is well known for being patent record holder, they file more than 10 patents - a day! So is cross licensing for a company like OpenMoko (and similar) realistic? I think not. Should someone like OpenMoko aim at doing so? I also think not. Do not feed the troll. The patent system is broken, especially regarding software. It could be fixed but nobody has until now made any good proposal. Why? Because the patent system in itself has become a huge business and doing a reform would mean that many people loose a lot of profit - starting with lawyers ;) So my advise is: Stick with the very old patent model. If you have a really cool new invention, go for a patent! But this should be really cool and really new technology, especially hardware. Be very careful with software! I would advise not to touch software patents at all. If you are behind patents just for the cross-licensing, forget about it. This ultimatley leads to the bad situation we
Re: Access Linux Platform SDK released
Nils Faerber wrote: This is not very productive, leads to fragmentation and does not help many - only the shareholders of the lucky winner of that fight (and luck is meant literally, this is a game of luck or have you seen the better one win in recent years? I just way Win :) Not really. Openmoko has the hands-on imperative. :-) I can see why openmoko does it's stuff independent. As a OSS developer, i would like to make the best technology and not fight over politics with big corporates in any of these committees. Openmoko is technology driven, and this is good. Technology shapes products, not comities. And when a winner, or let's say best way to do things, is declared, i'm sure all of them would be happily go this one path together. I'm pretty sure you don't have to toss all your work in the bin to be compliant with other standards. Sure, i would rather see more collaboration too. And maybe there is, i would be surprised if not... Just my 2 Eurocent. Tilman ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Patents and OpenMoko
Patenting OpenMoko, and then granting everyone perpetual, free use of the patent is the way to go. Everyone means those who does not enforce their patents against freedom software projects. If they do go enforce their patent, they will likely go against OpenMoko, should they find a weak legal spot. This would be a hard twist from the current system, just like the copyleft concept. Proprietary software vendors could easily join this kind of community licensing for patents. As long as you do not attack a member of the community, anyone could use any patent. Of course if a community member starts enforcing patents, he should be expelled automatically (as in forcibly exit community). This could be included in the patent licensing terms. Anyone breaking them, would rule themselves out. Also the initial patent licensing agreement can not be changed even if, OpenMoko goes bankrupt -God forbid!- and it's patents get into Acacia Research portofolio. This is perpetual copylefting - as free software always evolves into something better and new, patent regranting is more or less guaranteed. Alas, this does little to fight Acacia and the like. Public Patents Foundation (pubpat.org) or Electronic Frontier Foundation ( EFF.org) could be a starting point for this effort. On Feb 7, 2008 10:00 PM, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Community, Most of you know that OpenMoko is a fully independent company at this point. With this great opportunity comes many challenges. Today I would like to share one with you all and ask for some advice. We need to file patents for our hardware as well as software designs. While my personal views on software patents are inline with people like Eben Moglen, as a company, we are forced to play by the rules of the game. What I want is for a our company's patents to be freely available, for anyone, but for defensive purposes only. Are there any existing options available to us now? Does anyone know of existing companies or organizations with a similar strategy that we can seek guidance or partnership. Again, I want to emphasize that we only want our patents to be used in defense. And what constitutes defense is something that we want to be able to define (and potentially even redefine when new threats arise). Thanks in advance for the help. Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Moko Bluetooth
Hi Lorn Potter, I am trying to enable Bluetooth networking using Qtopia image. I could able to scan and connect to another system. When I try to add IP address using ip a add 10.0.0.2/24 dev bnep0 neo throws the following error ip: Cannot find device bnep0. Any work around for this problem. -Phani On Feb 1, 2008 5:34 AM, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 01 February 2008 09:31, Ilkka Urtamo wrote: Hi I got my neo last week (and very happy with it btw). I have it up and running nicely and I am now thinking where to contribute. Wiki is saying that there are plans for BT in neo but does not specify any details on that. I would be interested in working on BT and I am now wondering if there are someone already working on that? If not, then I would like to have some guidance as to how as overall process the BT things should play out. I am not and expert on any particular area but I think I have enough to learn and use the libs (eg. D-Bus, Bluez) properly. These issues are like: Should there be a daemon that controls enabling/disabling BT, pairing, storing PINs and device IDs, reconnects devices that has being paired and becomes available, etc. Or should this be handled only and directly with bluez? This daemon could also control proper settings associated with the connected device (bt headset, UConnect, bt keyboard, Filetransfers,etc). Along with the daemon should be small gui app for entering pin and associated popups? GUI app to issue search, list results, add/remove devices, and other BT related configuration? Any 2cents? Ilkka Urtamo Qtopia has some nice bluetooth integration, and mostly should work. Some parts may not be tested all that much though. :) -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
bluetooth networking
Hi,
I am trying to enable the bluetooth networking on my Neo phone.
The phone is running 2.6.22.5 kernel with rootfs provided by Qtopia.
I could able enable the bluetooth and scan for devices using hcitool scan
I could connect to a bluetooth server using pand -c bluetoothADDR
But, the command ip link show doesn't show the bnep0 interface.
So, it fails with following error when I try to assign Ip
ERROR:
ip: Cannot find device bnep0
BusyBox v1.2.1 (2007.08.24-09:48+) multi-call binary
Usage: ip [ OPTIONS ] { address | link | route | tunnel } { COMMAND | help }
can anybody help in this regard
Thanks in advance.
-Phani
___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: List of Linux Cell Phones
Hi! So it is a list of GSM phones which are capable of running linux? Why is it important from OpenMoko's point of view? Are they capable of hosting the OpenMoko software? Or are they the concurrent hardware of Neo? I just don't understand what you mean. Best regards Michael Schmidt wrote: Hello here is a list of Linux cellular phones. Most of them have a camera build in. you can search for them at google or here: http://www.linuxdevices.com/ http://www.limofoundation.org/ Regards ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: List of Linux Cell Phones
Schmidt András wrote: So it is a list of GSM phones which are capable of running linux? No. This list just indicates that there are HOWTOs available for connecting the phones to your Linux box. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: List of Linux Cell Phones
My understanding is that Michael got a list of all current handsets (GSM or otherwise) running some form of a Linux-based operating system on the device. It would be nice to have the list on the wiki and include whether it's GSM only or GSM+other, etc., but I haven't got the time to volunteer for this task myself at the moment. Ian Schmidt András wrote: Hi! So it is a list of GSM phones which are capable of running linux? Why is it important from OpenMoko's point of view? Are they capable of hosting the OpenMoko software? Or are they the concurrent hardware of Neo? I just don't understand what you mean. Best regards Michael Schmidt wrote: Hello here is a list of Linux cellular phones. Most of them have a camera build in. you can search for them at google or here: http://www.linuxdevices.com/ http://www.limofoundation.org/ Regards ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: List of Linux Cell Phones
Am Mi 13. Februar 2008 schrieb Stephan Maka: Schmidt András wrote: So it is a list of GSM phones which are capable of running linux? No. This list just indicates that there are HOWTOs available for connecting the phones to your Linux box. However OT, this: http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9423084269.html *IS* a list of cellphones with Linux(-like) operating system. NEO is listed = 3 times. /j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: List of Linux Cell Phones
I think the original poster thought that it was a list of linux phones (as it includes the Neo and the Greenphone), but it obviously isn't, because obviously those Sony Ericsson phones don't use linux, some of them are pretty old, like the (sony) ericsson T39. Also, in front of those phones sometimes you see the name of a phone/mobile distribution, like openmoko, familiar, etc, but in front of most are desktop distros (and even non-linux OS's), like ubuntu, redhat, etc. So I think that is a list that doesn't make sense. It is a list of linux phones (few of them), and a list of phones that can be interfaced with a desktop pc using linux somehow. Ivo On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 9:33 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: joerg wrote: I understood this site dealing with Linux on my phone, linuxdevices.com which Michael mentioned, has a page specifically listing Linux-powered handsets: http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9423084269.html ... and the site also deals with routers, embedded linux, have TrollTech as a sponsor, etc., so I'm going with my earlier guess that the list Michael provided is a list of phones which utilize Linux on the device itself, not a list of phones known to connect to Linux as an external device to your desktop. -id ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: List of Linux Cell Phones
Am Mi 13. Februar 2008 schrieb Stephan Maka: Schmidt András wrote: So it is a list of GSM phones which are capable of running linux? No. This list just indicates that there are HOWTOs available for connecting the phones to your Linux box. I understood this site dealing with Linux on my phone, not my phone on linux (= kitchensync?)? Either me or OP have to be wrong somehow. ;-) j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: List of Linux Cell Phones
It seems the info is gathered from: http://tuxmobil.org/phones_linux.html and is indeed just a list of HOWTOs for different mobile phones, that are, or are not using linux themselves. Hoping to have helped, Greeting sikko Stephan Maka schreef: Schmidt András wrote: So it is a list of GSM phones which are capable of running linux? No. This list just indicates that there are HOWTOs available for connecting the phones to your Linux box. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Nick Guenther wrote: On Feb 8, 2008 4:04 AM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've researched this a little, and this is what I've learned: 1. We are still looking at a number of different batteries, so there is no final capacity or feature set determined yet. 2. The capacity will most likely be around 1200mA. If you find any place on the wiki that says something other than 1200mA, can you please make the correction? You may reference this email. Oh. That's... really disappointing. The battery life is already unusable, and the faster processor and wifi will just make this even worse. We are well aware of software changes we need to make in order to improve battery and have simply not had the time to do this. You can expect much better battery life when we implement these changes. In fact if you look in the archives of the kernel mailing list you will see that a tremendous amount of progress has happened over the past few days. I think the current SVN code supports a much improved suspend mode that my very simple testing suggests should last for well over 12 hours. And work continues. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: now Koolu makes a phone too ;-)
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 08.02.2008 um 08:30 schrieb Michael Shiloh: Yes, Koolu is a distributor. Michael I thought that there are no distributors defined yet except the one in Germany mentioned recently? The updating of the web page seems to be lagging a little. I'm not sure of the exact details, but Koolu either is or will shortly be added. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wiki - New Page - OpenMoko Community Applications
Hi JW, This is wonderful. Thanks for coming up with the idea and for implementing it. I look forward to seeing more applications on this page. Regards, Michael JW wrote: Hi OpenMoko Community, I was thinking about the target market for Neo FreeRunner - the non-geek smartphone user. There is very little to tempt them in the current wiki and indeed the main page dedicated to them is * hidden halfway down the main page * refers to them as basic end users Both of these need changed but I haven't done this yet as I didn't want to mess with the main page structure. However I did create a new page to provide an advert for all the great software that is being ported or developed for the OpenMoko platform right now. I have filled in two example apps I personally heard about (hope the devs feel ok to be featured!). Please have a look and as usual change what you want done better :-) The Basic_End-user page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Basic_End-user The new OpenMoko Community Applications Page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Community_Applications JW ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko not on CeBIT 2008
Hi Tim, Two answers: 1. Limited resources, and especially now that we are trying to get GTA02 out of the door, we have to consider the cost of sending someone to such an event 2. CeBIT is a more consumer oriented event, and we don't have a consumer item to show Michael Tim Niemeyer wrote: Hello For my regret i had noticed, that OpenMoko / FIC are not on the CeBIT 2008. Why not? Greetings Tim Niemeyer ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Interview with Michael Shiloh about OpenMoko
Steven Le Roux wrote: On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 13:41:56 -0800, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I forgot to mention that the Southern California Linux Expo interviewed me as a warm-up to the show this weekend: http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/blog/2008/02/03/interview-with-michael-shiloh-of-openmoko/ Feedback is always appreciated. Michael Very good interviewed Michael ! I hope it will be relayed. The only thing I feel now is regrets... because of my actual lacks of skills to contribute on software developpement :) (not over ;)) People contribute at many different levels, in many different ways. You are welcome as part of the community, and we look forward to your participation in any way you can. Sincerely, Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: tangoGPS, a new gps mapping software for the Neo
Hi Marcus, This looks very useful. I will try to test this out. Thanks very much for your contribution, Michael Marcus Bauer wrote: Hello, I wrote tangoGPS, a small but fast gps and mapping software for Openmoko/Neo. It uses openstreetmap.org maps, downloading them on demand and caching them. You can drag the map, zoom in and out and see your current position and track if a gps signal is available. In order to run it you must have gllin and gpsd installed and running. A working way for doing so is this gllin-script: --- #!/bin/sh killall ld-linux.so.2 killall gpsd mknod /tmp/nmeaNP p gpsd -n /tmp/nmeaNP cd /home/root/gllin lib/ld-linux.so.2 --library-path /home/root/gllin/lib:/home/root/gllin/usr/lib \ /home/root/gllin/gllin.real -low 5 21 /dev/null lib/ld-linux.so.2 --library-path /home/root/gllin/lib:/home/root/gllin/usr/lib \ /home/root/gllin/gllin.real -periodic 1 --- You can check gpsd by connecting to the port 2947 and then typing r, which should look similar to this: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ nc localhost 2947 r GPSD,R=1 $GPGGA,091823.00,4441.889619,N,00817.008749,E,1,04,3.0,066.0,M,0.313003,M,0.0190515,*49 $GPRMC,091823.00,A,4441.889619,N,00817.008749,E,000.0,150.0,040208,,,A*53 $GPGSV,3,1,11,16,75,244,24,21,50,054,21,18,43,106,34,06,29,094,21*73 $GPGSV,3,2,11,03,45,295,,07,28,095,,22,28,156,,19,17,283,*7A $GPGSV,3,3,11,24,11,050,,25,11,317,,29,07,094,*49 $GPGSA,A,3,06,16,18,21,6.7,3.0,6.0*3D . . . --- When this all works, you can start tangogps. Make sure your Neo is connected to the internet so that it can download maps. You can find a precompiled ipkg, more info and a video on http://www.tangogps.org/ Enjoy let me know if it is useful for you! Marcus ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko not on CeBIT 2008
offtopic And Cebit is for idiots. I tried to get information about Intel VT 3 year ago. The only information about Intel was, that they had a new logo and some faster nicer better CPUs, nothing usefull... And the visitors seemed to care about yet another fancy new Logo... This was the last time I visited such a crap. /offtopic 2008/2/14, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Tim, Two answers: 1. Limited resources, and especially now that we are trying to get GTA02 out of the door, we have to consider the cost of sending someone to such an event 2. CeBIT is a more consumer oriented event, and we don't have a consumer item to show Michael Tim Niemeyer wrote: Hello For my regret i had noticed, that OpenMoko / FIC are not on the CeBIT 2008. Why not? Greetings Tim Niemeyer ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- http://www.gnuffy.org - Real Community Distro http://www.gnuffy.org/index.php/GnuEm - Gnuffy on Ipaq (Codename Peggy) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
community contributed gsmd testing framework
Hi Kero, This is excellent. Thanks! Can you add this to the appropriate wiki page? Regards, Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I wrote a little gsmd testing framework, with the hope it can be used to stabilize (lib)gsmd. You can find an initial release on: http://chmeee.dyndns.org/om/testing_gsmd.html NB: I cross-posted to three mailing lists to get exposure (everybody should be able to write tests, though you need AT command set knowledge), please choose wisely at which list you reply. Bye, Kero. PS: I am on IRC freenode#openmoko for discussion and assistance, too. EST, currently ;) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Community Update Wed Feb 13 2008
Hi everyone, This is actually a recap of last week in the engineering department. I was away at SCALE and am busy catching up. We received our first batch of 10 fully assembled GTA02 A5 boards. There are still some issues with the manufacturing test software that needs to be fixed before we start manufacturing. John got some Processing apps to run on the phone. Performance could be improved with a good Java JIT and better glamo OpenGL support. Wolfgang started the wiki page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Prototypes to track hardware issues with any non-release hardware we are using internally or sending to people. You can track some progress here. Allen found a GSM power leak in suspend mode. Matt and Allen are working to get this resolved. Graeme got Qtopia to build via OE, and was able to make phone calls on a GTA01 using Qtopia. The bottom line for A5 is that while we have not found a proven A5 hardware bug yet, we ran into a number of uncertainties. Our highest priorities now are to 1. prove that suspend/resume and charging works 2. prove that we can fix hardware quality issues (broken bluetooth, GPS, receiver) 3. improve production testing software (microSD, suspend/resume) We have added a full-time wiki editor. She has been publishing technical books for many years, and we look forward to improved organizing and appearance of all the great content on the wiki. That's all for now. Regards, Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Michael Shiloh wrote: We are well aware of software changes we need to make in order to improve battery and have simply not had the time to do this. You can expect much better battery life when we implement these changes. [...] that my very simple testing suggests should last for well over 12 hours. Twelve hours is great compared to the five the GTA01 gets now, but it's maybe a third of what I'd consider to be the absolute minimum for a usable phone. Can you give us an idea of how many hours of talk and standby you expect the phone to provide once all of these planned changes have been made? I want an OpenMoko because I want to carry a computer in my pocket. I want to run cron jobs that fetch content from the web. I want to use it as a wifi web browser. I want to turn it into a gps cycle-computer. And I want it to be my phone, which means that when I've done all of the above, it needs enough battery left at midnight to call a tow-truck when my car breaks down. My Treo 650 has an 1800 mAh battery, and even when it was new I never got more than three days off a full charge. Now that it's a few years old, I can barely make two days. If the GTA02 needs charging every day, after maybe a year the battery will be aging, and won't even last a whole day. That's not going to be very practical. Are you guys sure that 1200 mAh is going to cut it for what amounts to a portable computer? -- -- Dirk Bergstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://otisbean.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: tangoGPS, a new gps mapping software for the Neo
Hi Marcus, I saw your name on the FOSDEM schedule and will attend your conference :-) On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Marcus, This looks very useful. I will try to test this out. Thanks very much for your contribution, Michael Marcus Bauer wrote: Hello, I wrote tangoGPS, a small but fast gps and mapping software for Openmoko/Neo. It uses openstreetmap.org maps, downloading them on demand and caching them. You can drag the map, zoom in and out and see your current position and track if a gps signal is available. In order to run it you must have gllin and gpsd installed and running. A working way for doing so is this gllin-script: --- #!/bin/sh killall ld-linux.so.2 killall gpsd mknod /tmp/nmeaNP p gpsd -n /tmp/nmeaNP cd /home/root/gllin lib/ld-linux.so.2 --library-path /home/root/gllin/lib:/home/root/gllin/usr/lib \ /home/root/gllin/gllin.real -low 5 21 /dev/null lib/ld-linux.so.2 --library-path /home/root/gllin/lib:/home/root/gllin/usr/lib \ /home/root/gllin/gllin.real -periodic 1 --- You can check gpsd by connecting to the port 2947 and then typing r, which should look similar to this: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ nc localhost 2947 r GPSD,R=1 $GPGGA,091823.00,4441.889619,N,00817.008749,E,1,04,3.0,066.0,M,0.313003 ,M,0.0190515,*49 $GPRMC,091823.00,A,4441.889619,N,00817.008749,E,000.0,150.0 ,040208,,,A*53 $GPGSV,3,1,11,16,75,244,24,21,50,054,21,18,43,106,34,06,29,094,21*73 $GPGSV,3,2,11,03,45,295,,07,28,095,,22,28,156,,19,17,283,*7A $GPGSV,3,3,11,24,11,050,,25,11,317,,29,07,094,*49 $GPGSA,A,3,06,16,18,21,6.7,3.0,6.0*3D . . . --- When this all works, you can start tangogps. Make sure your Neo is connected to the internet so that it can download maps. You can find a precompiled ipkg, more info and a video on http://www.tangogps.org/ Enjoy let me know if it is useful for you! Marcus ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
I have been following the Suspended Mode thread in the kernel ML and they have made amazing progress within the last week. As GTA02A5 currently stands, a cold suspend mode (just GSM in standby awaiting incoming call/sms), could result in 20 days of standby! For those technical people on this list, they have gotten GTA02A5 in suspend using ~2.07mA @ 3.7v (fully charged batt). If the GTA02 will have a 1200mAh battery, that's ~24 days of suspend runtime in a perfect world. The goal is set around 1mA-2mA of suspend current draw, with best case scenario suspend time of ~50 days (sure beats 4 hours... :-P ). There are also issues such as internal battery discharge, ~30% over 90 days for one of the packs that is being considered, which will reduce the final suspend runtime available. Currently, work continues attempting to shave even more power consumption from a sleeping Freerunner. Individual power consumption of the different internal devices is still taking place, that way any user can approximate their battery lifetime (but each internal device has a few different states, making this a tedious task). In the very near future, we should see some numbers coming in about the talk runtime, once some GSM power state issues are resolved. There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs. duration). It's nice to have some good news, everyone keep up the good work! -Kyle On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 12:29 AM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nick Guenther wrote: On Feb 8, 2008 4:04 AM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've researched this a little, and this is what I've learned: 1. We are still looking at a number of different batteries, so there is no final capacity or feature set determined yet. 2. The capacity will most likely be around 1200mA. If you find any place on the wiki that says something other than 1200mA, can you please make the correction? You may reference this email. Oh. That's... really disappointing. The battery life is already unusable, and the faster processor and wifi will just make this even worse. We are well aware of software changes we need to make in order to improve battery and have simply not had the time to do this. You can expect much better battery life when we implement these changes. In fact if you look in the archives of the kernel mailing list you will see that a tremendous amount of progress has happened over the past few days. I think the current SVN code supports a much improved suspend mode that my very simple testing suggests should last for well over 12 hours. And work continues. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Uncle Kridley wrote: Michael Shiloh wrote: We are well aware of software changes we need to make in order to improve battery and have simply not had the time to do this. You can expect much better battery life when we implement these changes. [...] that my very simple testing suggests should last for well over 12 hours. Twelve hours is great compared to the five the GTA01 gets now, but it's maybe a third of what I'd consider to be the absolute minimum for a usable phone. I agree. I tried to make it clear that we're not done. Can you give us an idea of how many hours of talk and standby you expect the phone to provide once all of these planned changes have been made? Not yet. I want an OpenMoko because I want to carry a computer in my pocket. I want to run cron jobs that fetch content from the web. I want to use it as a wifi web browser. I want to turn it into a gps cycle-computer. And I want it to be my phone, which means that when I've done all of the above, it needs enough battery left at midnight to call a tow-truck when my car breaks down. My Treo 650 has an 1800 mAh battery, and even when it was new I never got more than three days off a full charge. Now that it's a few years old, I can barely make two days. If the GTA02 needs charging every day, after maybe a year the battery will be aging, and won't even last a whole day. That's not going to be very practical. Are you guys sure that 1200 mAh is going to cut it for what amounts to a portable computer? I don't know what we're sure of in this regard. In summary: 1. We have made much progress 2. We are aware of more improvements we can make 3. We don't know (yet) what all these improvements will get us Sincerely, Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Thanks Kyle for a great summary of the work being discussed on the kernel ML. I am simply not able to keep up with all the lists and very much appreciate your helping out here. Michael Kyle Bassett wrote: I have been following the Suspended Mode thread in the kernel ML and they have made amazing progress within the last week. As GTA02A5 currently stands, a cold suspend mode (just GSM in standby awaiting incoming call/sms), could result in 20 days of standby! For those technical people on this list, they have gotten GTA02A5 in suspend using ~2.07mA @ 3.7v (fully charged batt). If the GTA02 will have a 1200mAh battery, that's ~24 days of suspend runtime in a perfect world. The goal is set around 1mA-2mA of suspend current draw, with best case scenario suspend time of ~50 days (sure beats 4 hours... :-P ). There are also issues such as internal battery discharge, ~30% over 90 days for one of the packs that is being considered, which will reduce the final suspend runtime available. Currently, work continues attempting to shave even more power consumption from a sleeping Freerunner. Individual power consumption of the different internal devices is still taking place, that way any user can approximate their battery lifetime (but each internal device has a few different states, making this a tedious task). In the very near future, we should see some numbers coming in about the talk runtime, once some GSM power state issues are resolved. There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs. duration). It's nice to have some good news, everyone keep up the good work! -Kyle On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 12:29 AM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nick Guenther wrote: On Feb 8, 2008 4:04 AM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've researched this a little, and this is what I've learned: 1. We are still looking at a number of different batteries, so there is no final capacity or feature set determined yet. 2. The capacity will most likely be around 1200mA. If you find any place on the wiki that says something other than 1200mA, can you please make the correction? You may reference this email. Oh. That's... really disappointing. The battery life is already unusable, and the faster processor and wifi will just make this even worse. We are well aware of software changes we need to make in order to improve battery and have simply not had the time to do this. You can expect much better battery life when we implement these changes. In fact if you look in the archives of the kernel mailing list you will see that a tremendous amount of progress has happened over the past few days. I think the current SVN code supports a much improved suspend mode that my very simple testing suggests should last for well over 12 hours. And work continues. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
