date:20080425


ramsesoriginal wrote:

If it's like that, then a simple amplitude-modulation over a
pre-recorded, fixed, carrier of the encrypted data should be no
problem, since amplitudes are sent...


It's not.
It sends what is in essence a model of what state the human throat is in.
This is what the codec is designed to extract. It takes the audio 
signal, and extracts features that could have been generated by a human 
throat/mouth, and throws away the bits it thinks the human won't notice.


It then encodes this information in such a manner that small bit errors 
cause minor sound degradation on the other end.

On the other end, a reverse process is performed.

The fact that any non-vocal signal at all can get through is a 
byproduct, and the system is _not_ robust to this.



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Re: Newbee wants to kick start - second try

2008-04-25 Thread ramsesoriginal

If it's like that, then a simple amplitude-modulation over a
pre-recorded, fixed, carrier of the encrypted data should be no
problem, since amplitudes are sent...

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 12:09 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 4/24/08, ramsesoriginal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Adilson Oliveira
>
> > >  - - I've being reading about a project to implement cryptography on
>  > >  Openmoko so the calls and text messages can be secured, unfortunately I
>  > >  forgot the name of the project but I've heard that voice calls can't be
>  > >  secured like that due limitations on the way GSM work. Is this correct?
>  >
>  > As far as I understood it, a GSoC-Project is a sms middleware, which
>  > should (theoretically) implement a way to simply encrypt with gpg the
>  > sms. Phone calls can't be encrypted that easilly because, as far as i
>  > understood it, the microphone is connected directly to the gsm chip.
>  > But we have many intelligent people here, so someone will probably
>  > find a way to do even that.
>
>  The microphone is connected to the sound card:)
>
>  The reason that encrypted calls over GSM is so difficult, is that the GSM
>  chip samples and encode the input from the microphone. This coding
>  is optimized for speach only and does not actually send your speach
>  over the network, but it breakes the sound up in small parts and
>  use a lookup table to find something that is more or less similar.
>  It then sends the table index over the network. The actual sound is never
>  sent, not even in digital form. This is at least how I remember it
>
>  --
>  Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>  See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
>  Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
>  http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774>
>
>  Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone
>
>
>
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RE: research project topic

Also See Werners Breadcrumbs project on the project list. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joseph Reeves
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:12 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: research project topic

A-GPS please :)

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:A-GPS

Joseph



On 25/04/2008, simarillion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi community,
>
>  I'm studying electrical engineering at Karlsruhe University in Germany
and I
>  nearly finished.
>  Now I have to do a student research project and because I'm a big fan of
the
>  openmoko/freerunner project I want to combine this. I've got an offer
from an
>  Institude to do something like that. I must give them a topic that must
>  contain research and the GPS. Now is the question, what research with the
>  freerunner and it's GPS device can I do that would help the openmoko
>  community and seems to be something that institute would support. It
should
>  not be "only" writing a gui or something like that.
>  I have got to improve, develop, add or optimize something. This project
should
>  last between 3 and 6 months. I'am also trying hard to be allowed to give
my
>  research solution back to the community, as kind of code or information.
>
>  I'm looking forward to free my phone
>  and support the project
>
>  All the best,
>  Michael
>
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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-25 Thread David Samblas Martinez

We maybe must stop this or freerunner will be the first mobile phone with a 
PARENTAL ADVISORY tag in its case. :)
In oderside it can be a very agresive marketing campaing Open your.phone

Flemming Richter Mikkelsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: On 4/25/08, steve  
wrote:
>Somebody needs to work on the software to make it vibrate better.

Maybe I'll have a look at it (need to get the phone first). I got one idea,
but I need to test it:)

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-

Enviado desde Correo Yahoo!
La bandeja de entrada más inteligente.
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RE: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

harry and I will work something out, we are configuring a package of spares
and other bits for resellars. We are doing this real time

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lucas Bonnet
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 2:57 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Cc: Harry Tsai; William Lai
Subject: Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

"steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I decided to do something EXTRA for the groups of people who are uniting
to
> execute a group sales.
>
> Every 10 pack, will come with a box of stuff. 10 pouches and 10 head sets.

>
> So if you join a group sales organization and buy with other people, then
> the 10 pack will include these extras. 
>
> Sean and I are so happy with the way the community is coming together
around
> this idea of group sales that it just made sense. 

What about the resellers ? Can we have a stock of items when we order in
bulk too ?



Regards,
-- 
Lucas Bonnet
Bearstech - http://bearstech.com


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Re: Switzerland - group order

2008-04-25 Thread Marcel Wirth


Gabriel Ambuehl wrote:
 > If payments can be settled in advance (I don't want to get stuck 
with 4000USD

worth of Neos :P), I would volunteer to order an initial 10pack.


Thanks!
Sure, payment in advance would be fine.

Marcel

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Re: GPS research project topic

2008-04-25 Thread Stroller



On 25 Apr 2008, at 20:57, simarillion wrote:

...
Now I have to do a student research project and because I'm a big  
fan of the

openmoko/freerunner project I want to combine this. ...
I must give them a topic that must
contain research and the GPS. Now is the question, what research  
with the

freerunner and it's GPS device can I do that would help the openmoko
community and seems to be something that institute would support.  
It should

not be "only" writing a gui or something like that.
I have got to improve, develop, add or optimize something.


Hi there,

What I'd really like to see for OpenMoko & GPS is a way to text- 
message (SMS) your location to someone. When an OpenMoko device  
receives a text message containing a location it automatically opens  
(say) a GPS-compass and points the direction and distance to the sender.


I do not know if this would satisfy your research criteria, but there  
are a number of ways the project can be developed.


The address book must have a new option so that you select a contact  
and then choose "Find me!" - this automatically gets location from  
the GPS and sends it in an appropriate format.


The SMS application on the receiving OpenMoko must recognise the  
location format and pass the location data as a parameter to another  
(user specifiable) application. The map or "compass" application must  
be patched to read parameters when it is opened and point the compass  
at that location or show it on the map.


The location should probably not be automatically added to the  
recipient's waypoint database, because the receiver will probably  
never use that location again. It is acceptable to create a waypoint  
called "temp" if it does not exist and overwrite "temp" if it does  
exist already. If the user renames the "temp" waypoint to something  
more recognisable (eg: "bar on the beach") then it should not be  
overwritten.


My interest in this is that I used to fly paragliders pretty  
seriously, and once one becomes adept at flying more than a 20 or 30  
kilometres, getting home becomes a problem. Usually your friends will  
come looking for you - when I first started flying many people did  
not have mobile phones, and their prevalence became a god-send.  
Nevertheless, one may still be limited to describing one's location  
as "just a few miles past Uckfield, I'm right by a white farmhouse  
but I'm walking to a nearby cross-roads; I'll tell you what its  
signposts say when I get there". The problem becomes compounded when  
one is on holiday - in the Alps it is easier to fly larger distances,  
and once into the next valley one may not know the name of the town  
near which one has landed. One may land only a mile or two from the  
highway but be unable to describe one's location because one doesn't  
know to say "I'm on the side-road which leads to $town". Further, the  
retrieve driver may find it difficult to get directions from locals,  
especially if the driver doesn't speak the language, and consider the  
roaming charges incurred by long and complicated conversations of  
misdirections!


When I was last flying seriously there was some initial talk by the  
marketing departments some manufacturers (Nokia?) of adding this  
feature to their phones. So I would guess there are one or two models  
already on the market which do this. The OpenMoko needs to be able to  
interpret the location format of these phones, and the address book  
needs a function to specify alternative formats for the "find me!"  
SMS, so that it can be sent to Nokia or Motorola (which surely use  
proprietary location formats).


Clearly, this feature sells itself to walkers and hikers and outdoor- 
pursuits enthusiasts, but it would also be of great use to the wider  
population. I think that after you've used this feature just once  
you'll never want to be without it! Say you are meeting friends in a  
club or a bar, and you don't know where it is. They just send you an  
SMS and your phone bleeps and you look at the screen and it says "300  
metres that way" (and if they're two or three streets away the needle  
points in the right direction when you come to a junction). This  
becomes even more useful when you're driving across down because  
Bob's recently moved house or there are a bunch of people in town for  
a MeetUp (tm) this evening, but a crowd have arrived early and have  
found a park to laze in (I'm thinking especially of typical Internet  
MeetUps, when many people may be from out of town, and don't know the  
area; neither party may be able to give good directions!).


For this to work all mapish (i.e. map and GPS-compass) applications  
need to accept parameters and behave sensibly with them (EG: "/usr/ 
bin/kompass 44.09,6.236389" needs to start that program without  
the user having to separately enter the destination) but in case the  
software author does something stupid one needs the option to  
manually specify the command line called by

Re: Freerunner AC adaptor.. Kevin dean you there?

On 4/26/08, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just plug it in and see if smoke comes out.

Don't burn down the factory now! Not with all those Freerunners inside..

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Re: Freerunner AC adaptor.. Kevin dean you there?

2008-04-25 Thread Kevin Dean

Using Bobby's application the iGo charged fast charges my Neo1973 and
it doesn't set fire to my Element. That's "good enough" in my book. :)

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 6:10 PM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just plug it in and see if smoke comes out.
>
>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Dean
>
> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:07 PM
>  To: List for Openmoko community discussion
>  Subject: Re: Freerunner AC adaptor.. Kevin dean you there?
>
>
>
> So... Here's the magical question. How would an "average user" like
>  myself find that out without buying equipment to test it if the
>  manufacturer didn't include actualy numbers (or in my case, if the
>  manufacturer specifies a range of possibilities)?
>
>  On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 3:59 PM, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  wrote:
>  > My new Blackberry 8830 charger draws 500mA
>  >
>  >  -id
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > > For what it's worth, the Blackberry charger also ends in a USB plug, but
>  I
>  > didn't check the wall plug portion to see how many mA it draws.
>  > >
>  > > -id
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  >  ___
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>  >
>
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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

On 4/25/08, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Somebody needs to work on the software to make it vibrate better.

Maybe I'll have a look at it (need to get the phone first). I got one idea,
but I need to test it:)

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RE: Freerunner AC adaptor.. Kevin dean you there?

I just plug it in and see if smoke comes out.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Dean
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:07 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Freerunner AC adaptor.. Kevin dean you there?

So... Here's the magical question. How would an "average user" like
myself find that out without buying equipment to test it if the
manufacturer didn't include actualy numbers (or in my case, if the
manufacturer specifies a range of possibilities)?

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 3:59 PM, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> My new Blackberry 8830 charger draws 500mA
>
>  -id
>
>
>
>
>
> > For what it's worth, the Blackberry charger also ends in a USB plug, but
I
> didn't check the wall plug portion to see how many mA it draws.
> >
> > -id
> >
>
>
>  ___
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RE: Freerunner AC adaptor.. Kevin dean you there?

no trick I have the car one as well. I didn't see any rating on it.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Dean
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:03 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Freerunner AC adaptor.. Kevin dean you there?

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 3:47 PM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> my razr charger draws 850.
>
>  I haven't check my igo charger, Kevin is the IGO usb  100ma or 500ma?


This may be a trick question... I don't have an AC iGo, I have a DC
iGO car charger.

http://info.igo.com/mobility/datasheets/auto8.pdf

>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas
>  Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:37 PM
>  To: List for Openmoko community discussion
>  Subject: Re: Freerunner AC adaptor
>
>  Just as a comparison, since my workplace just got me a Blackberry World
>  Phone (8830), here's a photo of the power adapters that come with it,
>  which I guess connect to the standard American power plug.
>
>  http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2435261066/
>
>  For what it's worth, the Blackberry charger also ends in a USB plug, but
>  I didn't check the wall plug portion to see how many mA it draws.
>
>  -id
>
>
>  ___
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>
>
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RE: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

Start a group.

 
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tomas Di Domenico
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:54 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

Ack. I feel so lonely :P (I'm in Argentina)

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 4:44 PM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>  I decided to do something EXTRA for the groups of people who are uniting
to
>  execute a group sales.
>
>  Every 10 pack, will come with a box of stuff. 10 pouches and 10 head
sets.
>
>  So if you join a group sales organization and buy with other people, then
>  the 10 pack will include these extras.
>
>  Sean and I are so happy with the way the community is coming together
around
>  this idea of group sales that it just made sense.
>
>
>
>  ___
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>  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>

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Re: Newbee wants to kick start - second try

On 4/24/08, ramsesoriginal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Adilson Oliveira
> >  - - I've being reading about a project to implement cryptography on
> >  Openmoko so the calls and text messages can be secured, unfortunately I
> >  forgot the name of the project but I've heard that voice calls can't be
> >  secured like that due limitations on the way GSM work. Is this correct?
>
> As far as I understood it, a GSoC-Project is a sms middleware, which
> should (theoretically) implement a way to simply encrypt with gpg the
> sms. Phone calls can't be encrypted that easilly because, as far as i
> understood it, the microphone is connected directly to the gsm chip.
> But we have many intelligent people here, so someone will probably
> find a way to do even that.

The microphone is connected to the sound card:)

The reason that encrypted calls over GSM is so difficult, is that the GSM
chip samples and encode the input from the microphone. This coding
is optimized for speach only and does not actually send your speach
over the network, but it breakes the sound up in small parts and
use a lookup table to find something that is more or less similar.
It then sends the table index over the network. The actual sound is never
sent, not even in digital form. This is at least how I remember it

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Re: Switzerland - group order

2008-04-25 Thread Marcel Wirth


Gabriel Ambuehl wrote:
If payments can be settled in advance (I don't want to get stuck with 4000USD 
worth of Neos :P), I would volunteer to order an initial 10pack.


Thanks!
Sure, payment in advance would be fine.

Marcel



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RE: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

   Somebody needs to work on the software to make it vibrate better.

   

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander
Frøyseth
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 2:13 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

 

Not soo easy.
One thinks it look like a buttplug
The design ruin for many

Flemming Richter Mikkelsen skrev: 

On 4/25/08, Mohamed Hazem   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
  

What about us the poor people with no one around interested in the
FreeRunner ... How are we going to get our pouches and earphones ?


 
Convince your friends to buy a Freerunner:)
 
  

 

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RE: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

If they say it's huge, then I tend not to correct them.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Leinir
Turthra Jensen
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 11:34 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

Friday 25 April 2008 skrev Kevin Dean:
> I've not had ANYONE comment "it's ugly" but just about everyone I've
> handed it to said "It's HUGE".

  Well... i must say that it's the comment i've gotten when showing the 
pictures and such to people. Either "It's really big, isn't it?" or "Damn, 
that's one ugly thing", very often along with a description of items they 
think they resemble (ice hockey pucks and such things)

-- 
..Dan // Leinir..
http://www.leinir.dk/

  Co-
existence
  or no
existence

  - Piet Hein

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Re: Ugliness (was Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!)

> The Freerunner will be replacing a Sony Ericsson P990i
>  here - now
> THAT'S a phone which could barely be more ugly, but nevertheless it sold
> well on its features (and besides, ugliness is STILL only an opinion).

I could not agree more:)
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Re: Switzerland - group order

2008-04-25 Thread Marcel Wirth


Gabriel Ambuehl wrote:
If payments can be settled in advance (I don't want to get stuck with 4000USD 
worth of Neos :P), I would volunteer to order an initial 10pack.


Thanks!
Sure, payment in advance would be fine.

Marcel


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Re: Thoughts about calls not taken

2008-04-25 Thread Fredrik Wendt

Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > But the second could be handled by an answering machine right on the phone.
> 
> We have a summer of code project this year that's aiming for exactly that.
>

Perfect.

Make sure they don't leave out the "reject with SMS" feature - it's just so
useful and I'd hate loosing it.

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List#Ignore-Call_Button

/ Fredrik Wendt


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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-25 Thread Alexander Frøyseth


Well
ONE of my friends say so

Flemming Richter Mikkelsen skrev:

On 4/25/08, Alexander Frøyseth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

Not soo easy.
One thinks it look like a buttplug



I do not agree. Many of my friends likes the design - believe it or not.
And it is much better than many other phones out there - some even
has this ugly keypads
  


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Re: Kentucky / Indiana Group Order

2008-04-25 Thread Donnie Jones

Hello,

I am in Lexington, KY at the Univ of Kentucky too, and I am very
interested!  :)
__
Donnie Jones

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Dan Staley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I attend the University of Kentucky.  We have 4...maybe 5 people
> planning on buying one here.  I added my name to the list.  We were
> going to try to get 10 people just here around Lexington...but hey, if
> others around the Lexington area want to join in, we can go in with you
> guys!
>
> -Dan Staley
>
>
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Ugliness (was Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!)

2008-04-25 Thread Stroller

On 25 Apr 2008, at 16:25, Lowell Higley wrote:

Nine out of ten "typical consumers" I show it to think it's ugly
and wouldn't buy it because of looks alone. If I show it to a
techie type, I get the "what are the specs?" question. Lesson? To
the consumer, beauty is only skin deep.

This is typical of the consumer, though (and of the place the mobile
phone has taken in the mainstream, of "reflecting" the owner's
"personality").

At the end of the day, there are a hundred mobile phone designs on
the market - and for probably this reason. Substantially all mobile
phones do the same thing - make & receive calls - and I guess
appearance is a primary differentiation. If your one consumer in ten
finds the Freerunner acceptable (or even, shudder!, attractive)
enough to that they'll buy it, then Freerunner surely has a far
greater market interest than most mobiles! It's all a matter of taste
and I'll bet there are very few phones on the market which would be
_universally_ considered non-ugly.

We should also remember that OpenMoko is probably not aiming at the
"girlie" market, of consumers for whom appearance and daintiness is
the primary concern. I am reminded of a girl I knew two or three
years ago who was pleased with her new mobile - it was a small
clamshell design with a second screen on the outside; the outer
screen showed the time or, when it rang, the caller's name or number.
A screen saver was available for both screens - floating pink &
pastel bubbles were chosen.

When making calls is the only function then I do like small phones,
but the aforementioned girlie phone had no features that appealed to
me over any of the other clamshell designs available on the market
for the past decade. The Freerunner is surely aimed to compete with
phones based on Windows Moble & Symbian - phones on which email,
calendaring & media playback are important features (it may even
compete, then, with the PSP).

The Freerunner will be replacing a Sony Ericsson P990i www.cellphonebeat.com/images/p990i_.jpg> here - now THAT'S a phone
which could barely be more ugly, but nevertheless it sold well on its
features (and besides, ugliness is STILL only an opinion).

Stroller.

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Re: research project topic

2008-04-25 Thread Joseph Reeves

A-GPS please :)

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:A-GPS

Joseph



On 25/04/2008, simarillion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi community,
>
>  I'm studying electrical engineering at Karlsruhe University in Germany and I
>  nearly finished.
>  Now I have to do a student research project and because I'm a big fan of the
>  openmoko/freerunner project I want to combine this. I've got an offer from an
>  Institude to do something like that. I must give them a topic that must
>  contain research and the GPS. Now is the question, what research with the
>  freerunner and it's GPS device can I do that would help the openmoko
>  community and seems to be something that institute would support. It should
>  not be "only" writing a gui or something like that.
>  I have got to improve, develop, add or optimize something. This project 
> should
>  last between 3 and 6 months. I'am also trying hard to be allowed to give my
>  research solution back to the community, as kind of code or information.
>
>  I'm looking forward to free my phone
>  and support the project
>
>  All the best,
>  Michael
>
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Re: Kentucky / Indiana Group Order

2008-04-25 Thread Dan Staley

I attend the University of Kentucky.  We have 4...maybe 5 people
planning on buying one here.  I added my name to the list.  We were
going to try to get 10 people just here around Lexington...but hey, if
others around the Lexington area want to join in, we can go in with you
guys!

-Dan Staley


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research project topic

2008-04-25 Thread simarillion

Hi community,

I'm studying electrical engineering at Karlsruhe University in Germany and I 
nearly finished. 
Now I have to do a student research project and because I'm a big fan of the 
openmoko/freerunner project I want to combine this. I've got an offer from an 
Institude to do something like that. I must give them a topic that must 
contain research and the GPS. Now is the question, what research with the 
freerunner and it's GPS device can I do that would help the openmoko 
community and seems to be something that institute would support. It should 
not be "only" writing a gui or something like that. 
I have got to improve, develop, add or optimize something. This project should 
last between 3 and 6 months. I'am also trying hard to be allowed to give my 
research solution back to the community, as kind of code or information.

I'm looking forward to free my phone
and support the project

All the best,
Michael

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Re: Kentucky / Indiana Group Order

2008-04-25 Thread Kevin Dean

I figured that the person who started a KY/IN group would be from
Louisville or New Albany and not from Indy, Fort Wayne or Lexington.

Keep in mind when forming the groups that if it still needs to be
shipped (as opposed to physically delivered) there isn't much savings.
You're saving $30 by buying in groups - if you spend $20 in shipping
or gas, you're not really getting that great of a deal.

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri April 25 2008 3:30:13 pm Geoff Ruscoe wrote:
>  > Louisville, KY
>  >
>  > On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Joseph Jon Booker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  >
>  > wrote:
>  > > On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:16:09 -0400
>  > >
>  > > "Geoff Ruscoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > > > Anyone from around here interested in getting a group order together?
>  > >
>  > > Where in IN/KY are you guys? Is Chicago too far away for this group?
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > > Joseph Booker
>
>  I'm in Kokomo, pretty much right between you both.  It's up to you guys 
> wether
>  you want to all meet in Indiana or have separate groups for each state.
>
>
>
>  --
>  
>  Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  http://onedollarlinux.com
>  BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/
>
>  Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>  See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
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Re: Kentucky / Indiana Group Order

2008-04-25 Thread Brandon Kruger

On Fri April 25 2008 3:30:13 pm Geoff Ruscoe wrote:
> Louisville, KY
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Joseph Jon Booker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> wrote:
> > On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:16:09 -0400
> >
> > "Geoff Ruscoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Anyone from around here interested in getting a group order together?
> >
> > Where in IN/KY are you guys? Is Chicago too far away for this group?
> >
> > --
> > Joseph Booker

I'm in Kokomo, pretty much right between you both.  It's up to you guys wether 
you want to all meet in Indiana or have separate groups for each state.

-- 

Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://onedollarlinux.com
BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

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Re: Kentucky / Indiana Group Order

2008-04-25 Thread Geoff Ruscoe

Louisville, KY

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Joseph Jon Booker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:16:09 -0400
> "Geoff Ruscoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Anyone from around here interested in getting a group order together?
>
> Where in IN/KY are you guys? Is Chicago too far away for this group?
>
> --
> Joseph Booker
>



-- 
Geoff Ruscoe
Sigma Visions Computer Consulting
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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-25 Thread Shachar Shemesh


Mohamed Hazem wrote:

What about us the poor people with no one around interested in the
FreeRunner ... How are we going to get our pouches and earphones ?
  

Where are you?

Shachar

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Re: Kentucky / Indiana Group Order

2008-04-25 Thread Joseph Jon Booker

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:16:09 -0400
"Geoff Ruscoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Anyone from around here interested in getting a group order together?

Where in IN/KY are you guys? Is Chicago too far away for this group?

-- 
Joseph Booker


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Re: Group Order Germany, NRW, Bielefeld

2008-04-25 Thread Roland Häder

I'm in North Germany but will be in NRW, Krefeld in August this year.

But I have already single-pre-ordered it. :/

Roland

On Friday, 25. April 2008, darktim wrote:
> Am Freitag, den 25.04.2008, 18:34 +0200 schrieb Sebastian Hammerl:
> > anyone near Bielefeld, NRW, Germany who wants to join our group to get
> > the extras?

-- 
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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-25 Thread Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen

Friday 25 April 2008 skrev Kevin Dean:
> I've not had ANYONE comment "it's ugly" but just about everyone I've
> handed it to said "It's HUGE".

  Well... i must say that it's the comment i've gotten when showing the 
pictures and such to people. Either "It's really big, isn't it?" or "Damn, 
that's one ugly thing", very often along with a description of items they 
think they resemble (ice hockey pucks and such things)

-- 
..Dan // Leinir..
http://www.leinir.dk/

  Co-
existence
  or no
existence

  - Piet Hein

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Re: Thoughts about calls not taken

On 4/23/08, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I use pidgin (gaim) for IM, and you can set several 'away' messages
> depending on why you don't want to be disturbed. Some sort of voicemail app
> on the phone which plays back one of several messages like "Hi, I'm enjoying
> a movie right now, leave a message or check back later" or "Sorry I can't
> take your call, I'm in a meeting, leave a message" or whatever.
>
>
> ... Having a voice mail app on the phone that acts like pidgin for setting
> multiple 'away' scenarios would be extremely useful. I've seen some Emails
> on the list recently about a voice mail app, but I don't recall what it was
> called or whether it has this sort of feature. Haven't got the time at the
> moment to look it up and see.

I would love to see this feature implemented:)

-- 
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See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-25 Thread Lowell Higley

For my health and everyone's benefit on the mailing list, I think I am going
to refrain from responding. lol.  Talking about leaving yourself open.
sheesh! :-)

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Kevin Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've not had ANYONE comment "it's ugly" but just about everyone I've
> handed it to said "It's HUGE".
>
> I personally LOVE it, I'm huge too. :)
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Lowell Higley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > It was the GTA01.. the first pics I saw of the GTA02 was last week.  I
> > showed both colors of the GTA01.  I got the impression was it was the
> shape
> > that was a turn off but I am not sure because I never asked for that kind
> of
> > detail.  Although I do have to admit I'd never heard it called a buttplug
> > before.  That's an interesting observation.
> >
> > If I were to make three recommendation for GTA03 (or whatever the
> consumer
> > version is going to be), it would be "focus group, focus group, focus
> > group."
> >
> > L
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Jay Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Nine out of ten "typical consumers" I show it to think it's ugly and
> > wouldn't buy it because of looks alone.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Are you showing them a black one?  Its a lot sexier than the gta01 in
> my
> > opinion.
> > >
> > > But, that doesn't matter: the most common feedback I get is that, in
> spite
> > of external appearances, even the GUI is horrendously ugly too ..
> > >
> > > ;
> > > --
> > > Jay Vaughan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >  community@lists.openmoko.org
> >  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
>
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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-25 Thread Kevin Dean

I've not had ANYONE comment "it's ugly" but just about everyone I've
handed it to said "It's HUGE".

I personally LOVE it, I'm huge too. :)

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Lowell Higley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It was the GTA01.. the first pics I saw of the GTA02 was last week.  I
> showed both colors of the GTA01.  I got the impression was it was the shape
> that was a turn off but I am not sure because I never asked for that kind of
> detail.  Although I do have to admit I'd never heard it called a buttplug
> before.  That's an interesting observation.
>
> If I were to make three recommendation for GTA03 (or whatever the consumer
> version is going to be), it would be "focus group, focus group, focus
> group."
>
> L
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Jay Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > Nine out of ten "typical consumers" I show it to think it's ugly and
> wouldn't buy it because of looks alone.
> > >
> >
> > Are you showing them a black one?  Its a lot sexier than the gta01 in my
> opinion.
> >
> > But, that doesn't matter: the most common feedback I get is that, in spite
> of external appearances, even the GUI is horrendously ugly too ..
> >
> > ;
> > --
> > Jay Vaughan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
>
>
> ___
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Re: Group Order Germany, NRW, Bielefeld

2008-04-25 Thread darktim

Am Freitag, den 25.04.2008, 18:34 +0200 schrieb Sebastian Hammerl:

> anyone near Bielefeld, NRW, Germany who wants to join our group to get 
> the extras?
> 
> please put your contact details on the wiki site ( 
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales#Bielefeld )
> 
> ...cannot wait for freerunner, Sebastian

Well, no, there is nothing called "Bielefeld". You belong to THEM,
right?

SCNR

Greetings to Bielefeld, I lived there a long time ago ;)


-- 
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Re: Youtube Video Playback on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner?)

2008-04-25 Thread Marco Trevisan (Treviño)


Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 03:38:24 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
babbled:
Another format that maybe works on streaming (if I've not misunderstood 
what has been stated) is

  * 5: [EMAIL PROTECTED] flv file


no - not going to work. 21fps at best. :(


Ah... I thought that the limitation was only on playing media saved on 
SD, not on data streaming from the net.


Anyway if the player frame-dropping is enabled (or setting the -fps 
value to 20 in mplayer, for example), I guess we could get a better 
video quality than the other formats...


--
Treviño's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-25 Thread Lowell Higley

It was the GTA01.. the first pics I saw of the GTA02 was last week.  I
showed both colors of the GTA01.  I got the impression was it was the shape
that was a turn off but I am not sure because I never asked for that kind of
detail.  Although I do have to admit I'd never heard it called a buttplug
before.  That's an interesting observation.

If I were to make three recommendation for GTA03 (or whatever the consumer
version is going to be), it would be "focus group, focus group, focus
group."

L

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Jay Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Nine out of ten "typical consumers" I show it to think it's ugly and
>> wouldn't buy it because of looks alone.
>>
>
> Are you showing them a black one?  Its a lot sexier than the gta01 in my
> opinion.
>
> But, that doesn't matter: the most common feedback I get is that, in spite
> of external appearances, even the GUI is horrendously ugly too ..
>
> ;
> --
> Jay Vaughan
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Group Order Germany, NRW, Bielefeld

2008-04-25 Thread Sebastian Hammerl


Hi,

anyone near Bielefeld, NRW, Germany who wants to join our group to get 
the extras?


please put your contact details on the wiki site ( 
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales#Bielefeld )


...cannot wait for freerunner, Sebastian

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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

Nine out of ten "typical consumers" I show it to think it's ugly and  
wouldn't buy it because of looks alone.


Are you showing them a black one?  Its a lot sexier than the gta01 in  
my opinion.


But, that doesn't matter: the most common feedback I get is that, in  
spite of external appearances, even the GUI is horrendously ugly too ..


;
--
Jay Vaughan





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Re: Switzerland - group order

2008-04-25 Thread Kosa

Oh my god! I knew there were some geniuses on this list, but never  
thought we got Einstein on our side. :D


Cheers!

Kosa
On 25/04/2008, at 10:53 a.m., einstein wrote:


Hello,

when the friends in switzerland need a place to talk about a group  
order, and talk about the details, feel free to do this on www.freeyourphone.de/forum


Your welcome...

Greets

Stefan

openmoko list subsriber wrote:

Advance payment is no problem for me either ;-) P.Aeberli

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RE: Newbee ..- encrypted calls/SMS

2008-04-25 Thread Crane, Matthew

Yea, fair enough.  After listening to you guys I think I definitely like
the idea better of the GSOC project with PGP SMS used to initate a VPN,
which could then do a VOIP session.  

If the two phones are both connected to wifi then a SMS initated VPN
would end up ringing the other end, if it was automated.  An attacker
would have no info on who called who, from where, and for how long.  All
information that would normally be available to "the man" (in the
middle) if it was a cellular conversation. 

Matt

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Pottage
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 11:39 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: RE: Newbee ..- encrypted calls/SMS

On Fri, April 25, 2008 2:18 pm, Crane, Matthew wrote:

> Yes, I understand that, that is why I'm thinking of this approach.  My
> idea was to use analog voice transforms and their inverse with
> properties that would preserve most of the codec performance.  But it
> would be awfully difficult to sync up the inverse on the other end
> without a data connection, I expect that with voice calls that delay
can
> be added and removed without warning.

I don't think this is a practical idea, even if it would work (which I
doubt). The problem is that unlike cyphers like PGP, analogue audio
cyphers are fairly easy to break with modern computers, and anyone
attempting to eavesdrop on your voice call will quite well resourced.

Analogue audio scramblers are probably helpful for wired phone calls
where
you might be worried about a low tech attack such as a Hotel telephonist
recording your phone call to your mistress, and then using it to
blackmail
you, but for GSM calls, the air interface between your handset and the
base station is usually encrypted using the A5 cypher. So the only way
someone can listen to your call is by having access to the telephone
company switch. This could be via hacking, a corrupt employee, or lawful
intercept. Either way the eavesdropper is likely to have access to all
the
equipment he needs to decrypt a simple voice scrambled call.

The way I see it, the only way you can get encrypted voice calls is
either
to wait until both you and the other party are near WiFi access points,
and do it over VOIP, or to do VOIP over GSM, and put up with the huge
latency, which will give you a walke-talkie like connection.

-- 
David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

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Re: Switzerland - group order

2008-04-25 Thread einstein


Hello,

when the friends in switzerland need a place to talk about a group 
order, and talk about the details, feel free to do this on 
www.freeyourphone.de/forum


Your welcome...

Greets

Stefan

openmoko list subsriber wrote:

Advance payment is no problem for me either ;-) P.Aeberli

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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-25 Thread Mohamed Hazem

Cairo, Egypt.

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 5:08 PM, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mohamed,
>
>  Where are you located? Perhaps we can combine you with something.
>
>  Michael
>
>
>
>  Mohamed Hazem wrote:
>
> > What about us the poor people with no one around interested in the
> > FreeRunner ... How are we going to get our pouches and earphones ?
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > On 4/24/08, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >  > I decided to do something EXTRA for the groups of people who are
> uniting to
> > >  > execute a group sales.
> > >  >
> > >  > Every 10 pack, will come with a box of stuff. 10 pouches and 10 head
> sets.
> > >  >
> > >  > So if you join a group sales organization and buy with other people,
> then
> > >  > the 10 pack will include these extras.
> > >  >
> > >  > Sean and I are so happy with the way the community is coming together
> around
> > >  > this idea of group sales that it just made sense.
> > >
> > >  THANK YOU!! This news made me extremly happy
> > >  --
> > >  Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> > >  See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> > >
> > >  Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
> > >  http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774>
> > >
> > >  Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  ___
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> > >
> > >
> >
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RE: Newbee ..- encrypted calls/SMS

2008-04-25 Thread David Pottage

On Fri, April 25, 2008 2:18 pm, Crane, Matthew wrote:

> Yes, I understand that, that is why I'm thinking of this approach.  My
> idea was to use analog voice transforms and their inverse with
> properties that would preserve most of the codec performance.  But it
> would be awfully difficult to sync up the inverse on the other end
> without a data connection, I expect that with voice calls that delay can
> be added and removed without warning.

I don't think this is a practical idea, even if it would work (which I
doubt). The problem is that unlike cyphers like PGP, analogue audio
cyphers are fairly easy to break with modern computers, and anyone
attempting to eavesdrop on your voice call will quite well resourced.

Analogue audio scramblers are probably helpful for wired phone calls where
you might be worried about a low tech attack such as a Hotel telephonist
recording your phone call to your mistress, and then using it to blackmail
you, but for GSM calls, the air interface between your handset and the
base station is usually encrypted using the A5 cypher. So the only way
someone can listen to your call is by having access to the telephone
company switch. This could be via hacking, a corrupt employee, or lawful
intercept. Either way the eavesdropper is likely to have access to all the
equipment he needs to decrypt a simple voice scrambled call.

The way I see it, the only way you can get encrypted voice calls is either
to wait until both you and the other party are near WiFi access points,
and do it over VOIP, or to do VOIP over GSM, and put up with the huge
latency, which will give you a walke-talkie like connection.

-- 
David Pottage

Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.

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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-25 Thread Lowell Higley

Nine out of ten "typical consumers" I show it to think it's ugly and
wouldn't buy it because of looks alone.  If I show it to a techie type, I
get the "what are the specs?" question.  Lesson?  To the consumer, beauty is
only skin deep.  Us techie types are deeper and can see the true beauty.
Who woulda thunk it?

I'm kind of hoping someone does a lot of good with the freed CAD drawings.
Seeing as how I'm not willing to pay the exorbitant price for ProE, I won't
be able to do anything with it.

L

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 7:29 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 4/25/08, Alexander Frøyseth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Not soo easy.
> > One thinks it look like a buttplug
>
> I do not agree. Many of my friends likes the design - believe it or not.
> And it is much better than many other phones out there - some even
> has this ugly keypads
> --
> Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
> Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
> http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774>
>
> Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone
>
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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-25 Thread Kosa

Hi everyone,

I was just about to ask that, eventough Openmoko is perhaps the topic  
I talk to my firends the most, and some of them have said they want to  
get one, I'm in Mexico and It will be very hard to get a tenpack here.  
Tthe minimum salary here is arround the 600 dollars per month and  
getting a 400 device might be too much for most of my friends.  Well,  
it'll be a big luxury to me too but I can stop eating for a week or  
two to get one of those babys.

Tomorrow we'll have Flisol here in Latin America, wich is Festival  
Latinoamericano de Instalación de Software Libre and means  
Latinamerican Opensource Installation Fest  (or something like that)  
and I will be talking about open hardware and software develompent for  
mobile devices, taking Openmko as the main subject, and perhaps some  
of the people there would like to get one, but I'm not sure if I can  
convince them to get one with just one conference, and it looks like  
the freerunner will be released very soon.

I want to get a Freerunner no matter what, but I would love to get the  
pouch and the earphone even If I have to pay a little bit more. I  
might even join any US group in California, Texas or any other  
southern state and ask the one who gets the bulk to send my Freerunner  
to me.

Have a nice wwekend and wish me luck for tomorrow.

(waiting for the BIG day...)

Kosa

On 25/04/2008, at 09:08 a.m., Michael Shiloh wrote:

Mohamed,

Where are you located? Perhaps we can combine you with something.

Michael

Mohamed Hazem wrote:

What about us the poor people with no one around interested in the
FreeRunner ... How are we going to get our pouches and earphones ?
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 4/24/08, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I decided to do something EXTRA for the groups of people who are  
uniting to

> execute a group sales.
>
> Every 10 pack, will come with a box of stuff. 10 pouches and 10  
head sets.

>
> So if you join a group sales organization and buy with other  
people, then

> the 10 pack will include these extras.
>
> Sean and I are so happy with the way the community is coming  
together around

> this idea of group sales that it just made sense.

THANK YOU!! This news made me extremly happy
--
Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774>

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-25 Thread Michael Shiloh


Somehow appropriate that an archaeologist ended up with this one :-)

Michael

Joseph Reeves wrote:

Number 83 is my favourite:

http://blogs.thehumanjourney.net/finds/entry/20080425

;)



On 21/04/2008, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are just
a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:

 http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/

 If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to turn
this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the
assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02
samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my permission -
download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and
create what you want.

 Michael

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Re: Switzerland - group order

2008-04-25 Thread openmoko list subsriber

Advance payment is no problem for me either ;-) P.Aeberli

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-25 Thread Joseph Reeves

Number 83 is my favourite:

http://blogs.thehumanjourney.net/finds/entry/20080425

;)



On 21/04/2008, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are just
> a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:
>
>  http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/
>
>  If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to turn
> this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the
> assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02
> samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my permission -
> download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and
> create what you want.
>
>  Michael
>
>  ___
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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

On 4/25/08, Alexander Frøyseth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not soo easy.
> One thinks it look like a buttplug

I do not agree. Many of my friends likes the design - believe it or not.
And it is much better than many other phones out there - some even
has this ugly keypads
-- 
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See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-25 Thread Alexander Frøyseth


Not soo easy.
One thinks it look like a buttplug
The design ruin for many

Flemming Richter Mikkelsen skrev:

On 4/25/08, Mohamed Hazem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

What about us the poor people with no one around interested in the
FreeRunner ... How are we going to get our pouches and earphones ?



Convince your friends to buy a Freerunner:)

  


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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-25 Thread Michael Shiloh


Mohamed,

Where are you located? Perhaps we can combine you with something.

Michael

Mohamed Hazem wrote:

What about us the poor people with no one around interested in the
FreeRunner ... How are we going to get our pouches and earphones ?


On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 4/24/08, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 > I decided to do something EXTRA for the groups of people who are uniting to
 > execute a group sales.
 >
 > Every 10 pack, will come with a box of stuff. 10 pouches and 10 head sets.
 >
 > So if you join a group sales organization and buy with other people, then
 > the 10 pack will include these extras.
 >
 > Sean and I are so happy with the way the community is coming together around
 > this idea of group sales that it just made sense.

 THANK YOU!! This news made me extremly happy
 --
 Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
 See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

 Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
 http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774>

 Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone



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Re: Kentucky / Indiana Group Order

2008-04-25 Thread Brandon Kruger

On Fri April 25 2008 9:16:09 am Geoff Ruscoe wrote:
> Anyone from around here interested in getting a group order together?

I just created a group for Indiana, feel free to change it to 
Indiana/Kentucky, Midwest, or whatever seems fit.

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales#Indiana

-- 

Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://onedollarlinux.com
BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
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RE: Newbee ..- encrypted calls/SMS

2008-04-25 Thread Crane, Matthew

It does not take full encryption to ensure privacy.  Privacy being that
without the inverse transform:

- words are not resolvable
- voices cannot be matched to the callers
- any aproxmized inverse performed by a third party would result in
something that is not usable in a legal context.  

Really, voice calls have to be pretty clear as is for transcripts to be
admitted in court.  There is large leeway given to legal entities
producing transcripts, with interpretation of mumbles and the selection
of what parts of the conversations that are transcribed (e.g. marking
conversations as "unintelligble" that are favourable to the person being
investigated).  

But I expect you're right, it's too difficult and not practical.  Not
compared with the alternatives.  I like secure VOIP initiated from
encrypted SMS.  A wireless connection is always available in a big city.
Once the IP addresses have been transmitted securely the conversation is
anonymous and no record will exist, even of the duration of the
conversation.

Matt

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Stirling
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 9:24 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Newbee ..- encrypted calls/SMS

Crane, Matthew wrote:
> Yes, I understand that, that is why I'm thinking of this approach.  My
> idea was to use analog voice transforms and their inverse with
> properties that would preserve most of the codec performance.  But it
> would be awfully difficult to sync up the inverse on the other end
> without a data connection, I expect that with voice calls that delay
can
> be added and removed without warning. 
> 

There are no simple voice transforms at all that will get through the 
codec, and actually encrypt.
Voice changing is possible, but encryption is not.

You _cannot_ - for example - exepect frequency inversion - to get 
through the codec chain.

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Re: Newbee ..- encrypted calls/SMS


Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote:

There are no simple voice transforms at all that will get through the codec,
and actually encrypt.
Voice changing is possible, but encryption is not.

You _cannot_ - for example - exepect frequency inversion - to get through
the codec chain.


What about correlating (multiplying) the input signal with a
different signal (encoding) and in the other end extract your
signal (decoding) by removing the added signal?


If it does not sound like voice when it leaves the phone, it will be 
massively and unpredictably distorted by the codecs.
In a call between two GSM phones, there are at least two encode/decode 
with occasionally different codecs between the microphone on one side, 
and the speaker on the other.

You cannot (usually) pick the codec.

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Re: Baltimore/DC Group

2008-04-25 Thread Feydreva

Maybe you could put you name on the Wiki ?
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales#Mid-Atlantic
it would be easier to see and maybe group some area together
For mid Atlantic, there is a Virginia, Maryland, NY groups

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 8:01 AM, Paul Buede <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I started one for Maryland, I live out past Frederick, so I am in the DC
> area.
>
> Joshua Broussard wrote:
> > How have I not yet seen a call for group orders from the WMA to
> > Baltimore, but there is one for Utah... No offense Utah...
> >
> > Any interest?
> >
> > r/ Josh
> > 
> >
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Re: Newbee ..- encrypted calls/SMS

> There are no simple voice transforms at all that will get through the codec,
> and actually encrypt.
> Voice changing is possible, but encryption is not.
>
> You _cannot_ - for example - exepect frequency inversion - to get through
> the codec chain.

What about correlating (multiplying) the input signal with a
different signal (encoding) and in the other end extract your
signal (decoding) by removing the added signal?


-- 
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Re: Newbee ..- encrypted calls/SMS


Crane, Matthew wrote:

Yes, I understand that, that is why I'm thinking of this approach.  My
idea was to use analog voice transforms and their inverse with
properties that would preserve most of the codec performance.  But it
would be awfully difficult to sync up the inverse on the other end
without a data connection, I expect that with voice calls that delay can
be added and removed without warning. 



There are no simple voice transforms at all that will get through the 
codec, and actually encrypt.

Voice changing is possible, but encryption is not.

You _cannot_ - for example - exepect frequency inversion - to get 
through the codec chain.





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RE: Newbee ..- encrypted calls/SMS

2008-04-25 Thread Crane, Matthew

Yes, I understand that, that is why I'm thinking of this approach.  My
idea was to use analog voice transforms and their inverse with
properties that would preserve most of the codec performance.  But it
would be awfully difficult to sync up the inverse on the other end
without a data connection, I expect that with voice calls that delay can
be added and removed without warning. 

But in terms of complexity and chance of success, it does seem like the
encrypted SMS is both practical and feasible, compared to any sort of
voice encryption.

Maybe a composite solution?  Secure voip session initiated by encrypted
SMS?

Is there a benfit to using smartcard SAMs for encrypted peer2peer
communications with OpenMoko?

SD card with SAM: http://www.sdid.com/products1010.shtml

Or the GPG fellowship card:
http://gnupg.org/howtos/card-howto/en/smartcard-howto-single.html

Matt

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Stirling
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:31 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Newbee wants to kick start - encrypted calls

Crane, Matthew wrote:
> Not sure if there's a specific project, I'm hoping to do some sort of
> "analog" encryption, with audio effects and inverse effects, such that
> it does not need to be digitally decoded, where the excellent pattern
> recognition engine in the brain does most of the work.
> 

You can't do much.
It has to 'sound' voice-like to the multiple codecs in the signal chain 
of a GSM call, or the codec just discards the sound.

Listen to a voice over a good GSM line.
It's quite well reproduced.

Now, listen to an assortment of music.
Some will come out quite well, and be reproduced much like they came
out.
Some are utterly shredded.

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Kentucky / Indiana Group Order

2008-04-25 Thread Geoff Ruscoe

Anyone from around here interested in getting a group order together?
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Re: Baltimore/DC Group

2008-04-25 Thread Paul Buede

I started one for Maryland, I live out past Frederick, so I am in the DC
area.

Joshua Broussard wrote:
> How have I not yet seen a call for group orders from the WMA to
> Baltimore, but there is one for Utah... No offense Utah...
>
> Any interest?
>
> r/ Josh
> 
>
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RE: NZ Group order

2008-04-25 Thread David Murrell

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson
Sent: Friday, 25 April 2008 7:31 p.m.
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: NZ Group order

2008/4/25 Christ van Willegen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 4:18 AM, David Murrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>  > I've got approval from my er, financial controller :)
>
>  Wife?
>
Partner, rather than wife, but this fits into the capital expenditure range,
so she gets a say on it.

>  Yeah, me too... although I am on another group buy list ;-)
>
>  Christ van Willegen

do any of you know about the situation on frequencies in nz? i hear telecom
and vodafone use different bands, 850 and 900 respectively. is this correct?

This is something I've been wondering about as well. It would be
particularly nice if I could choose a different provider by switching
simcards. I realise this isn't removetly possible with the current cdma
phones that telecom has, but the 'next generation cell network' thing sounds
like it might be compatable?

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Re: Utah Group buy?

2008-04-25 Thread Travis Tabbal

No Utah people responding. Owell. If you guys can stand someone from next
door, I'll join with you. :) Obviously, I'll pay shipping from Denver. :)
Peter Abplanalp kindly offered to handle the shipping. Will one of you do
Paypal so I can use plastic to send the money to you when it's time?

Travis



On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Shawn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> We have 8 phones lined up for the Colorado group! (assuming everyone that
> emailed me still wants one).
>
> - Original Message 
> From: Michael Heinrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion 
> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 3:24:41 PM
> Subject: Re: Utah Group buy?
>
> Not sure about Washington too. Maybe a coop?
>
> On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Travis Tabbal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Are there enough of us in Utah to bother? Maybe I can join the Denver
>> group if not. :)
>>
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Re: Baltimore/DC Group

2008-04-25 Thread Rivera





Joshua Broussard wrote:
How have I not yet seen a call for group orders from the
WMA to Baltimore, but there is one for Utah... No offense Utah...
  
Any interest?
  
r/ Josh
  

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Hey, I'm in the DMV. Count me in!
Rivera



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Re: Switzerland - group order

2008-04-25 Thread Andre Timmermann

Am Freitag, den 25.04.2008, 10:46 +0200 schrieb Gabriel Ambuehl:

> If payments can be settled in advance (I don't want to get stuck with 4000USD 
> worth of Neos :P), I would volunteer to order an initial 10pack.

Great, payment in advance is no problem.

Greetz,
Andre

PS: Du warst noch nicht in unserem neuen Büro, oder? Besuch uns mal
wieder!




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Re: Switzerland - group order

2008-04-25 Thread Gabriel Ambuehl

On Friday 25 April 2008 09:52:24 Andre Timmermann wrote:
> > Right now I'm not sure about the current status, prices, delays and
> > payement arrangements. Would be nice to get more info from the one who
> > will pass the order ;)
> Good point. Who will place the order?

If payments can be settled in advance (I don't want to get stuck with 4000USD 
worth of Neos :P), I would volunteer to order an initial 10pack.

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Re: Thoughts about calls not taken

2008-04-25 Thread Torfinn Ingolfsen

Hi,

>  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Calling_Features
>  has had all of these thoughts for some time.

I know. :)
But it helps writing them up here in the mailing list from time to
time, so people don't forget them. :)
-- 
Regards,
Torfinn Ingolfsen

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Baltimore/DC Group

2008-04-25 Thread Joshua Broussard

How have I not yet seen a call for group orders from the WMA to Baltimore,
but there is one for Utah... No offense Utah...

Any interest?

r/ Josh
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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-25 Thread Lucas Bonnet

"steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I decided to do something EXTRA for the groups of people who are uniting to
> execute a group sales.
>
> Every 10 pack, will come with a box of stuff. 10 pouches and 10 head sets. 
>
> So if you join a group sales organization and buy with other people, then
> the 10 pack will include these extras. 
>
> Sean and I are so happy with the way the community is coming together around
> this idea of group sales that it just made sense. 

What about the resellers ? Can we have a stock of items when we order in
bulk too ?



Regards,
-- 
Lucas Bonnet
Bearstech - http://bearstech.com


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Re: Thoughts about calls not taken


Bastian Muck wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Torfinn Ingolfsen schrieb:
| Hi,
|
| On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:20 PM, Stefan Misch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|> Hi,
|>
|>  I have an idea going through my mind about rejecting phone calls.
|
| Personally, I only use rejects if I ewant the calling party to *know*
| that I have rejected the call. For most cases, I prefer the "ignore"
| button, which just tuns off sound (and vibration if enabled). Thus the
| caller (salesman, unknown numder, etc) only knows that I didn't
| answer.
|

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Calling_Features
has had all of these thoughts for some time.

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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

On 4/25/08, Mohamed Hazem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What about us the poor people with no one around interested in the
> FreeRunner ... How are we going to get our pouches and earphones ?

Convince your friends to buy a Freerunner:)

-- 
Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774>

Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone

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Washington State group order

2008-04-25 Thread Jon Pomeroy

Hello all,

I am starting a group for the Washington State area. I'm willing to
organize it. If you're interested, you can contact me at jon.pomeroy at
gmail. 

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales#Washington

-Jon


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Re: Vienna - group order



Why is this not linked from the Group Sales page on the openmoko  
wiki? :)


Coz nobody has done it yet!  :)




Fixed!  For those Austrians who are interested, details here:

http://metalab.at/wiki/OpenMoko

Details updated here:

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Group_Order

and here:

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales

;
--
Jay Vaughan





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Re: Vienna - group order

 Why is this not linked from the Group Sales page on the openmoko  
wiki? :)


Coz nobody has done it yet!  :)



Spread the word a bit? :)





Good idea.

;
--
Jay Vaughan





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Re: Vienna - group order

2008-04-25 Thread Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen

Friday 25 April 2008 skrev Jay Vaughan:
> > Willing to build a group for ordering here in vienna, austria - maybe
> > austria in general.
> > pls contact me directly to my gmx account.
>
> We've already got a 'group buy' page here at Metalab, Vienna .. maybe
> you want to participate in that?
>
> http://metalab.at/wiki/OpenMoko
>
> And there is a plan to get our OpenMoko user group days fixed and
> happening on a regular basis too ..

  Why is this not linked from the Group Sales page on the openmoko wiki? :) 
Spread the word a bit? :)

-- 
..Dan // Leinir..
http://www.leinir.dk/

  Co-
existence
  or no
existence

  - Piet Hein

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Re: Vienna - group order


Willing to build a group for ordering here in vienna, austria - maybe
austria in general.
pls contact me directly to my gmx account.



We've already got a 'group buy' page here at Metalab, Vienna .. maybe  
you want to participate in that?


http://metalab.at/wiki/OpenMoko

And there is a plan to get our OpenMoko user group days fixed and  
happening on a regular basis too ..


;
--
Jay Vaughan





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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-25 Thread Mohamed Hazem

What about us the poor people with no one around interested in the
FreeRunner ... How are we going to get our pouches and earphones ?


On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 4/24/08, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > I decided to do something EXTRA for the groups of people who are uniting to
>  > execute a group sales.
>  >
>  > Every 10 pack, will come with a box of stuff. 10 pouches and 10 head sets.
>  >
>  > So if you join a group sales organization and buy with other people, then
>  > the 10 pack will include these extras.
>  >
>  > Sean and I are so happy with the way the community is coming together 
> around
>  > this idea of group sales that it just made sense.
>
>  THANK YOU!! This news made me extremly happy
>  --
>  Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>  See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
>  Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
>  http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774>
>
>  Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone
>
>
>
>  ___
>  Openmoko community mailing list
>  community@lists.openmoko.org
>  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>

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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!