Community feedback on Industrial Design of Freerunner successor?
From another thread (on stylus attachment) it sounds like perhaps the case design of the successor to the Freerunner is in progress. Will the design process of the new case be open? In the sense that you might show sketches of the design in progress, and collect opinions from the community? Can you say anything about how you will work with focus groups etc to determine the final design of the next case? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RE: Re: Re: Stylus Recommendation
Steve, I am very pleased to see that in fact the openmoko team is considering our ideas. I didn't want to offend in any way you or the team. steve wrote: pre wrapNicanor, We were all high school students, and not all of us were EE. So your opinion counts, and yes I read it. I spent a good deal of time today fiddling with different stylus ideas. ON one hand we do not want to burden the design ( The ID or the software ) with a requirement to use a stylus. On the other hand, we cannot stop people from writing software that works better with a stylus. So, How to balance these two. Some of the ideas on the list have given me some thoughts. I'll share them with the Industrial design guys. Good ideas can come from anywhere. From the High school student to old guys who has done this for years. So, as an exercise, look through the list. Collect the ideas. List there pros and cons. See what you come up with. draw some pictures. If we had a monopoly on good ideas we would not be open source. Steve And you just gave me a great idea! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nicanor Babula Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 3:39 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Re: Re: Stylus Recommendation I am not an electrical engineer either (I'm a highschool student) and I think that it's more important to get the phone ready than problems like where the stylus will be attached?. In the end the freerunner will be a developer and not an end user phone. Besides I don't know how much the OpenMoko team is considering our suggestions (no offence). gt; Kim Alvefur wrote: /preblockquote type=citepre wrapOn Fri, 2008-05-02 at 09:56 -0500, Hans L wrote: /preblockquote type=citepre wrapOn Fri, May 2, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Nicanor Babula lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; /pre/blockquote/blockquotepre wrap!wrote: /preblockquote type=citeblockquote type=citepre wrap /preblockquote type=citepre wrap I don't think that a magnetic stylus would be such a good idea, /pre/blockquote/blockquote/blockquotepre wrap!because /preblockquote type=citeblockquote type=citeblockquote type=citepre wrapany movement of the pen would create a current into every conductor /pre/blockquote/blockquote/blockquotepre wrap!existing /preblockquote type=citeblockquote type=citeblockquote type=citepre wrapin its magnetic field (freerunner's circuits included). This current /pre/blockquote/blockquote/blockquotepre wrap!might /preblockquote type=citeblockquote type=citeblockquote type=citepre wrapdamage or disturb the phone itself. /pre/blockquotepre wrapI am not an electrical engineer, but I think that the voltage/current produced from such a magnet would be negligible. But, even assuming that it would not be harmful, isn't the case made of plastic? Is there even enough ferrous material concentrated towards the back of the neo to accomplish this? /pre/blockquotepre wrap The battery? AFAIK lots of phone holders have magnets that attach to the battery through the back. /pre/blockquotepre wrap! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community /pre/body /html /html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Stylus Recommendation
Shawn Rutledge wrote: On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 7:56 AM, Hans L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not an electrical engineer, but I think that the voltage/current produced from such a magnet would be negligible. But, even assuming that it would not be harmful, isn't the case made of plastic? Is Well you could take apart the phone and try to find a place to stash a small, really strong neodymium magnet. Then use a thin steel stylus (with a soft plastic tip), shaped to fit against whatever surface has the magnet. It could even fit against the side of the phone, if it had a slightly concave shape. Or mod the case to have a shallow groove for the stylus to fit into, then the stylus could just be a thin steel bar, or rounded on one side as suggested. Since the magnet doesn't move, it shouldn't cause any inductive pulses (although it might cause electrons that are trying to move in a straight line to go off in a curve instead. Not sure if that would affect anything...) Now I am using a motorola A1200E Motoming (linux based ;) ) and it has a stylus too. I like very much the way the stylus is attached to my motorola and I would like to see it on the neo if it doesn't create large additional costs. Check it out: http://direct.motorola.com/hellomoto/motomingedge/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Willing to join any EU group sale.
I'm from Bosnia and i'm in same situation... + i wish if i can order debug board too... i send e-mail in group in Austria and asked them to join in their group .. but no one replied me jet... so, just to announce that i'm in same position and i'm willing to join some close group too On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Ilja O. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. I'm living in Latvia (EU) and willing to join group sales (since, as far as I understand, buying 10 pack will yield for lower taxes, and, of curse, free pouch...). But it seems that there is nobody in my country (but me) willing to buy Freerunner now (two friends of mine are waiting me to test one, I'm being used as guinea pig :-( ). That's why I'm willing to join any other EU group. Of course I'll pay for extra postage expenses, etc, etc So if somebody is lacking one person for complete group, please mail me! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- www.vedran.ba 2/204 - 2/224 - 2/255 - 2/281 - 14/24 - 17/53 - 36/4 ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Our new Main page of wiki
It's getting there. -Original Message- From: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 8:15 PM To: steve Cc: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: Re: Our new Main page of wiki On Fri, 2 May 2008 17:13:06 -0700 steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: indeed - it's not bad. no complaints. just observation. :) we all have got lots of things to do... :) Yes, It is a bit long. And it always has been. Brenda is working the Structure of the site ( like Edward scissorshand trimming kudzu) and I told wolfgang I would do my marketing thing on the front page. I will of course make some suggestions on organization and structure ( you know me raster ) but for now, I will let it rest, as I have other matters to attend to. The current structure is rhapsodic and so is not easily maintained, especially as new products come out. So, I'll share some thoughts later. Laconically yours, Steve -Original Message- From: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 5:03 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Cc: steve Subject: Re: Our new Main page of wiki On Fri, 2 May 2008 14:25:18 -0700 steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: seems ok to me, though a little long :) but that's how it has been for a while. :) In any case I did a quick copy edit of the front page. Have a look, I will probably polish it some more later on and add some of my writing from the .com. PS, Raster is right. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 12:55 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Cc: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) Subject: Re: Our new Main page of wiki Am Fr 2. Mai 2008 schrieb Carsten Haitzler: On Thu, 1 May 2008 13:35:24 -0400 Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: I think it's a little ridiculous to leave it when at least she takes the initiative to do something. Sure - Brenda does not speak English as a native language. You are free to fix it up with your perfect English intuition. It is a wiki after all. Perhaps she might help you with your good, yet not so perfect chinese? :) Seriously. I have learnt several languages. I know how hard it is to speak a foreign language. It is damned hard. It's even harder when the language is of a completely different language school (i.e. European vs. Asian languages). The fact that someone can communicate as well as Brenda can, in a foreign language, is simply amazing. It is a mountain of work. Everyone should be as supportive as possible. It is no easy task. The fact that English is just the de-facto one for Open source, should not mean it has to be perfect and written by natives. If it can be understood then it has done a great job already. I clap my hands for Brenda and say keep going and thumbs up for making such a good job of it! ???! :) ACK! The new wiki-mainpage is way better than what it was before. Thanks Brenda! :-) /jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Request for stable, automated build process
Just out of curiosity, would maven be completely out of the question? Package up the dependent tarballs into maven projects, and list the OM stack as depending on specific versions of them. Maven can wrap up the complexity of finding all the various packages for people who just want to download install. If the process of converting a tarball into a maven project can be automated (even if a few scripts are necessary for different projects), then the real work need only be done once per part. It's also work that can get split up a bit amongst the community. Would make continuous integration simple, and would act as a nice wrapper around the current build system. Hudson https://hudson.dev.java.net/ has tools for starting/stopping VMs, etc as part of the test suite. Also, being selfish for a moment, it'd be nice to have a build process that'd port easily enough to Solaris OS X :-) It'd also enable some IDEs to read the project for an easier dev cycle. If anyone's interested in this line of consideration, I'd be willing to do a little research into what's needed to set it up. On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Holger Freyther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 01 May 2008 18:01:38 Bobby Martin wrote: I sent this before to openmoko-devel and was greeted with a deafening silence, so I'm resending to a broader audience. As evidenced by a recent post to openmoko-devel by saurabh gupta, one of the GSoC selectees, this really is a problem. The longer it's put off, the more potential benefits (in the form of community contributors who give up rather than improve OM) are lost. Well, the reason I didn't reply to the first mail is because it is touching way too many topics to answer all of them in depth and finding a time slot to do this. I'm working on the april software update. I have my branch and it has a high probablity of always building. Everything we built for the openmoko-qtopia-x11-image (just for testing) is set to a fixed version/srcdate. I can rebuild the whole distribution without internet (because I don't have internet at home) and I have written a task for base.bbclass to help me to lock down the built to versions. The obvious downside is: To upgrade certain components I have to spent close to a day to build, and test the result. The good thing: I can make sure to have an always building image, which allows you to make phone calls, sms,... --- - I really think OM is shortchanging themselves with the current build process. As far as I can tell: * there is no way to run a build that has a high probability of working all the way through Not true for my org.openmoko.zecke.april-update branch because everything is locked down (I can build without internet if I have fetched all sources before) * there is no way to identify the latest code that builds together You know the SRCDATE, SRCREVS, tarballs you are going to use. The information for a whole system is massive though. * there is no automated build process, nor even a stable script one can follow to do a complete build from source on one's local machine Right, I have attached my Openembedded scripts and configuration I use to build on my hardy system. You see it is really basic/simple. * it looks to me as if the code lives in at least three different kinds of repositories: svn, GIT, and mtn Yes, we integrate a lot of different projects. They use tarballs on http/ftp, cvs, hg, p4, mtn, git, svn. There is hardly anything we can change about that. * I'm sure that there is a way to identify the code that went into a particular snapshot found on the web, but I don't know what it is The ipk files should point to the recipe used to build the package and has the SRCDATE/SRCREV in the same. So it is easy to find out. * there is no way to identify which tasks definitely have someone reliable working on them, which are open issues need attention they're not getting, and which have some casual developer looking at them I agree, we don't have an bugmaster at Openmoko who could help on this. For the april software update I mostly track the issues myself and pester the people involved (oh already my 3rd task). I have done several very minor programs for my neo, which I would have much preferred to integrate into the real build process. However, when I've tried the Mokomakefile process, it will run for hours and then die in some obscure way. I spent a few hours over the course of several days debugging that process on my Ubuntu machine at home, before I realized there were version issues with the assembler that I didn't see any way to work around. Three things: - Finding the balance between always stable and cutting edge, specially while in development is pretty
Re: Request for stable, automated build process
On Sat, May 03, 2008 at 08:21:27PM -0400, Lally Singh wrote: Just out of curiosity, would maven be completely out of the question? Please, for the love of all that's holy, no. I work with maven in my job. It's the most horrible misbegotten misdesigned piece of hideousness I've ever had the misfortune to work with. I'm not alone in that opinion, either -- pretty much everyone I know who's used it has the same opinion. I recently spent some time tracking down a build failure in our automated build system. It was eventually traceable to some component of maven -- still ostensibly the same version as the previous week -- changing under our feet in an incompatible way, so it decided to reject a configuration that had previously functioned correctly. This is not the only problem we've had with it. It has a track record of being awkward and/or broken in ways that are not obvious, and it is almost completely opaque when you come to try and debug them. Please, please, stick to make. Hugo. -- === Hugo Mills: [EMAIL PROTECTED] carfax.org.uk | darksatanic.net | lug.org.uk === PGP key: 515C238D from wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net or http://www.carfax.org.uk --- My karma has run over my dogma. --- signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Request for stable, automated build process
Huh, we've had the exact opposite experience over here. The trick that's worked here is to recognize the top-level app is little more than a shell for the plugins. I download the source of the plugins when there's a problem, and ping the maven listserv. The documentation needs help, a *lot* of help, but the code is workable. Frankly, that level of work isn't any harder than debugging makefiles. In exchange, the benefits have been pretty solid. But, yeah, it's easy for people to have either experience. I just wanted to provide my own datapoint. In comparison to complex makefiles, I'm a lot happier on maven. On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Hugo Mills [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, May 03, 2008 at 08:21:27PM -0400, Lally Singh wrote: Just out of curiosity, would maven be completely out of the question? Please, for the love of all that's holy, no. I work with maven in my job. It's the most horrible misbegotten misdesigned piece of hideousness I've ever had the misfortune to work with. I'm not alone in that opinion, either -- pretty much everyone I know who's used it has the same opinion. I recently spent some time tracking down a build failure in our automated build system. It was eventually traceable to some component of maven -- still ostensibly the same version as the previous week -- changing under our feet in an incompatible way, so it decided to reject a configuration that had previously functioned correctly. This is not the only problem we've had with it. It has a track record of being awkward and/or broken in ways that are not obvious, and it is almost completely opaque when you come to try and debug them. Please, please, stick to make. Hugo. -- === Hugo Mills: [EMAIL PROTECTED] carfax.org.uk | darksatanic.net | lug.org.uk === PGP key: 515C238D from wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net or http://www.carfax.org.uk --- My karma has run over my dogma. --- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIHQtsIKyzvlFcI40RArezAKDTilX8eV6tsxwc8zY4kiBR+/4kEQCfXxNS /0EbQ+2wi9M/i/z6JiSYwFs= =CiYc -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Freerunner Sale Price in India
Ida Systems Pvt Ltd will be reselling the Neo Freerunner in India. After careful consideration the the Retail Price in India has been fixed at Rs 2/-. This includes all taxes, shipping to your address, 30 days return and one year warranty. We are hoping to be able to ship the Freerunners to customers by end May. For more information please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are still a few slots left in our inaugural offer for the first 40 orders of [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15399/-. Please mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you would like to pre-book and avail the offer. Thanks Rakshat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
