Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
Subject: Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions Date: lun 19 mag 08 11:10:50 -0600 Quoting Travis Tabbal ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Carlo E. Prelz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Those apps are the heart of the phone, and I would not want to have > > C++/QT versions running on my phone. > > I really don't understand the sentiment there. If the app works well and > gets the job done, why does it matter what language it's written in or what > widget toolkit it uses? I could see not wanting a closed app on OM, but it > sounds like there is source available. There are two levels here. One is the ethically-justified desire to run open software. The other one is the concrete possibility to dig into the code and actually adapt the operativity of the code to your specific needs. The first level is clearly satisfied. With regards to the second one, things differ from person to person. For most of its life, the openmoko project has been based on C and GTK, which I happen to be reasonably versed in. The switch to QT *requires* the abandoning of C in favour of C++, a language that I personally find unsuitable for use. > Or, you could pick up the older GTK apps and finish them up. It sounds like > the shipping apps are a placeholder to get a nice working phone for shipping > Freerunner. It's an open platform, so switch them out if you want the other > ones. Or improve the new ones. Or write new ones from scratch in Ruby. > Whatever. :) This could come to be true, given enough free time. Nevertheless, there is a big difference between having the core applications of a phone maintained and updated by Openmoko and having to depend on my scarce free time or other voluntary work for the same core apps. Later on, if I read that the GTK apps are usable, I may eventually decide to buy the phone. I just wanted to let Openmoko know that it is because of this switch (which I only learned about yesterday) that I won't be an early adopter. Carlo -- * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte, * K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe * di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My Openmoko blog is aimed at helping Freerunner users get started
Hi, > Seriously, feedback and suggestions are welcomed. very good idea. Thumbs up! Dirk ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPRS IP Networking
Ok, I think I didn't express myself correctly. Of course I know how the emails come to the server. My question is, how they reach the phone and which protocols are used. Steven Kurylo schrieb: On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 6:31 PM, Bastian Muck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What about the Email-Push-Service. I don't know if this is provider specific. T-Mobile Germany offers this service for about 5 €/month with free transfer. I don't know how it works, but the name makes me think, the provider "pushes" the mail to the phone. Any ideas? If they're doing NAT pools, I'm sure they have a server on the inside of the NAT. So they would poll your mail for you, then they can reach the phone directly for the push. Blackberry has this feature - they'll log into my pop/imap account and push the email to the handheld. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
On Mon, 19 May 2008 10:27:25 -0400 Ian Darwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled: > 2) The ASU software features a qwerty-keyboard. It is switchable between > alphabetics and numerics; unfortunately the gesture needed to do this > (a triangle drawn counter-clockwise from lower left) is a bit hard to it is? the gesture is just "slide finger up". no triangle :) not sure how you got the triangle thing :) (place finger at kbd bottom, slide, lift finger) > get right; hopefully there will be a button to switch this. As well, unlikely :) > the current version of ASU uses QTopia's input manager, offering what > looks like a predictive style but is actually doing a dictionary actually - it doesn't - i wrote one from scratch :) the code is ugly - but it works. it does use standard linux dict files though for the dictionary - the one we ship is an abbreviated one with only 5000 words - but they also have extended frequency counts. have a dig around the illume package files and see - it's just a text file. :) it also maintains a user dictionary for personal words you added in ~/.e/e/ :) same format. > lookup; I find this very distracting compared to a plain do-what-I-type > keyboard, and would welcome an easy way to turn this off (I thought > Lorne Potter posted this once, but I couldn't find it). it will do what you type - but you'd better have a stylus or a very sharp pointy fingernail :) the dictionary is intended to make it easy to type with your fingers and it fixes your typos for common "english" entry. the dictionary files are text so other language can be added (note - it won't be that happy with it at the moment, something i need to fix as i was busy just making it work at all). > 3) It's easy to accidentally start an application (thus slowing down > what you're trying to really do) while scrolling the home screen in icon > grid mode. there is an adjustment for this - its in the interaction dialog, yes its ugly - i know. i keep fiddling with it every now and again to see if i can't make it behave a bit more like i "intend". :) > 4) The Preferences that are in the top slide-down panel's Wrench icon > should presumably be merged with the Preferences App. currently those are preferences for enlightenment - and thus it has its own settings dialog/panel like all applications anywhere on any desktop do :) > 5) The shutdown dialog does not have a cancel or Back button. > And, it often doesn't actually shutdown. that may actually go - that's just qtopia's default dialog - the # of app icons will likely reduce by a lot as we trim out things we don't really need. > All for now. Again, please remember that this is very early access. > And don't let my nit-picking distract you from the fact that it's > looking good for something that was merged only a few weeks ago! > > Ian Darwin > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPRS IP Networking
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 6:31 PM, Bastian Muck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What about the Email-Push-Service. I don't know if this is provider > specific. T-Mobile Germany offers this service for about 5 €/month with free > transfer. I don't know how it works, but the name makes me think, the > provider "pushes" the mail to the phone. > Any ideas? If they're doing NAT pools, I'm sure they have a server on the inside of the NAT. So they would poll your mail for you, then they can reach the phone directly for the push. Blackberry has this feature - they'll log into my pop/imap account and push the email to the handheld. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will GTK be used in Openmoko?
Steven Kurylo wrote: And you'd end up arguing about the colour of the bike shed none stop. Some decisions openmoko just needs make to deliver us a phone. I know and I appreciate it... I'd just like more if they would have a better communication with us and with 3rd party developers (anyway this is an old issue)! Sometimes it seems we've just "rumors" like on closed companies! I do love this project, I believe on it and I'll support with no hesitations, but I think that some things should be improved! -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPRS IP Networking
What about the Email-Push-Service. I don't know if this is provider specific. T-Mobile Germany offers this service for about 5 €/month with free transfer. I don't know how it works, but the name makes me think, the provider "pushes" the mail to the phone. Any ideas? Greetings Bastian Steven Kurylo schrieb: Erm, you say that SMS is free, or at-least receiving them is. Maybe if you could implement such an application, you could get your server to SMS your phone when you have important messages with a special trigger code, and then you're phone would connect and download the messages? Not sure if this is possible, or if it would be cheaper / waste of time... But if you were going with text messages, it'd be expensive to fit anything more than a small message on? Yes, I was thinking I'd put a filter on my imap server which would send an SMS when messages come in. When the phone receives the SMS it would check for new mail. It had crossed my mind to stuff message headers into the sms too. Then you could decide if its worth downloading the full message over gprs. I just have a bunch of ideas in my head, though it does look like I might have to make a imap client first as I don't see on yet :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
On 一, 2008-05-19 at 16:27 -0700, Mike Montour wrote: > Ian Darwin wrote: > > Thanks for posting your review. Perhaps you (or another Freerunner user) > can answer a few more questions: > > How good is the audio quality when having a GSM voice conversation with > another person? Can the other caller hear you clearly without being > distracted by an echo of their own voice (as happens on at least some > GTA01s, mine included)? Is the Neo's speaker volume loud enough for you > to hear the other caller in the presence of noise (e.g. outside on a > sidewalk)? > > > i agree with Darwin,my phone has above problem.The other caller hear my voic is very small.i must speak very loudly.i want to know this problem be caused by hareware or by software? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will GTK be used in Openmoko?
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 6:03 PM, Rod Whitby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: >> >> Well, I much appreciate your work and your openness with community, >> unfortunately I can't say the same about Openmoko in this occasion since >> this should be an Open company and so I'd have appreciated it more if the >> decision would have been debated before with developers and active part of >> community (= people writing code) in public lists. > > I guess the question is whether Openmoko Inc. ever promised that the > contents of the rootfs for the phone that they sell will be determined by > some sort of community consensus. > > If I remember correctly, they only promised to provide an open software > platform upon which *you* can create your own personalised rootfs. By > including both toolkits, they have not changed anything you experience with > respect to this promise. And you'd end up arguing about the colour of the bike shed none stop. Some decisions openmoko just needs make to deliver us a phone. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will GTK be used in Openmoko?
Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: Well, I much appreciate your work and your openness with community, unfortunately I can't say the same about Openmoko in this occasion since this should be an Open company and so I'd have appreciated it more if the decision would have been debated before with developers and active part of community (= people writing code) in public lists. I guess the question is whether Openmoko Inc. ever promised that the contents of the rootfs for the phone that they sell will be determined by some sort of community consensus. If I remember correctly, they only promised to provide an open software platform upon which *you* can create your own personalised rootfs. By including both toolkits, they have not changed anything you experience with respect to this promise. -- Rod ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPRS IP Networking
> Erm, you say that SMS is free, or at-least receiving them is. Maybe if you > could implement such an application, you could get your server to SMS your > phone when you have important messages with a special trigger code, and then > you're phone would connect and download the messages? > Not sure if this is possible, or if it would be cheaper / waste of time... > But if you were going with text messages, it'd be expensive to fit anything > more than a small message on? Yes, I was thinking I'd put a filter on my imap server which would send an SMS when messages come in. When the phone receives the SMS it would check for new mail. It had crossed my mind to stuff message headers into the sms too. Then you could decide if its worth downloading the full message over gprs. I just have a bunch of ideas in my head, though it does look like I might have to make a imap client first as I don't see on yet :-) -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Whats up with the freerunner mass production?
digger vermont wrote: On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 11:01 +0200, Michele Renda wrote: shhh... don't get up the child :) Let them to work in peace, our baby is becoming bigger :) It'd be fun to see a picture of them on the assembly line. This [1] is not live neither it's building a Freerunner, but it should give you an idea of what should be going on! :P Bye [1] http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/GTA02a2.mp4 -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
QEMU Emulator Problem
Hi every one, I am using Ubuntu Version Ubuntu 8.04 ,the Hardy Heron I want to compile QEMU Emulator for OpenMOKO. make setup command was successful, however, make openmoko-devel-image is not running succesfully and giving the following errors: 1. First it gives, /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr is not 0. This will cause problems with qemu so please fix the value (as root). I fixed this by using echo '0' > /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr 2. However, again the build is stuck: make openmoko-devel-image ( cd build && . ../setup-env && \ ( bitbake openmoko-devel-image u-boot-openmoko ) ) ERROR: no files to build. Could you kindly highlight, what is the source of error. Thank You, MM ALam -- Muhammad Masoom Alam Univeristy of Innsbruck Austria Off# +43 512 507 6462 Mob# 0650 543 8975 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will GTK be used in Openmoko?
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: no it was not announced. it was a management decision. :) [CUT] Im not trying to continue this thread, Im not trying to start any flame wars about one toolkit vs another... Im very sorry if it looked like this - it was no my intention... :-) that's cool. i am just trying to explain why we do things. i could just sit silent and say nothing - you'd never know why, and all u'd get was software images :) i'm trying to open up a bit of the reasoning behind decisions. :) Well, I much appreciate your work and your openness with community, unfortunately I can't say the same about Openmoko in this occasion since this should be an Open company and so I'd have appreciated it more if the decision would have been debated before with developers and active part of community (= people writing code) in public lists. And I say this also if I love the new Efl + Qt implementation! This is not a flame, just a small disappoint about some "not-so-open" ways of Openmoko... -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My Openmoko blog is aimed at helping Freerunner users get started
Great, It will need a custom kernel patched for the emulator it appears. George On Mon, 19 May 2008 16:42:43 -0700 Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yeah - I was thinking of that after I saw the questions regarding > running OSA on Qemu. > > I'll post this as soon as I find out how to do this :-) > > Michael > > George Brooke wrote: > > Hi, > > > > It would be great if you could post instructions for emulating the > > new software > > > > solar.george > > > > On Mon, 19 May 2008 14:54:56 -0700 > > Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> I've just posted about the software update that has been discussed > >> here today, so I figured I'd take this opportunity to tell you all > >> about my blog: > >> > >>gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com > >> > >> I welcome comments but please be gentle. I'm new to blogging. > >> > >> Seriously, feedback and suggestions are welcomed. > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> ___ > >> Openmoko community mailing list > >> community@lists.openmoko.org > >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > ___ > > Openmoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My Openmoko blog is aimed at helping Freerunner users get started
Yeah - I was thinking of that after I saw the questions regarding running OSA on Qemu. I'll post this as soon as I find out how to do this :-) Michael George Brooke wrote: Hi, It would be great if you could post instructions for emulating the new software solar.george On Mon, 19 May 2008 14:54:56 -0700 Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've just posted about the software update that has been discussed here today, so I figured I'd take this opportunity to tell you all about my blog: gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com I welcome comments but please be gentle. I'm new to blogging. Seriously, feedback and suggestions are welcomed. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My Openmoko blog is aimed at helping Freerunner users get started
Michael Shiloh wrote: I've just posted about the software update that has been discussed here today, so I figured I'd take this opportunity to tell you all about my blog: Cool! Here is another FAQ entry (with a few holes to be filled in): Q) How do I preserve my Contacts, Calendar etc information when re-flashing to a later snapshot? A) Bearing in mind that this is early-access software, we do not recommend that you store large volumes of valuable contact or calendar information in your phone. However, some people have used the following procedures for their most immediate contacts. If you're using a pre-ASU snapshot, all such files are stored in ~/.evolution (/home/root/.evolution), and are in "Evolution Database Format"; you could in theory copy this information to your desktop and access it via Evolution or EDS (or vice versa). If you're using ASU, this information is stored [WHERE???], and is stored in a QTopia-specific format. Copy the appropriated directories someplace safe BEFORE re-flashing the phone. Either scp -r them from the phone to your desktop, or, cp -r them to the micro-SD card (assuming you put the card in and that it still has space): cp -r [directories listed above] /media/card/. Then re-flash the phone, and copy the files back. Note: the format of these files is subject to change. Or, [THIS IS UNTESTED] download the QTopia Desktop and synchronize your phone with your desktop. The download site is http://trolltech.com/developer/downloads/qtopia/desktopdownloads/ for common platforms; for unsupported platforms, you could maybe get the "QTopia Open Source Download" and extract and build the QTopia Desktop from that. - If anybody knows the location of the files that QT contacts uses, or has actually tried the QTopia Desktop with the new ASU image, please pipe in! (Please don't guess, because you might cause somebody to waste a lot of time, or lose data :-)) Thanks Ian Darwin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
Ian Darwin wrote: I have been using a FreeRunner for a few days with a pre-pre-alpha snapshot of the ASU software. [...] Short form: functionally, it works. Among other things, the phone wakes up reliably on incoming rings (assuming it's booted and suspended, of course), and GSM voice works after a resume. Thanks for posting your review. Perhaps you (or another Freerunner user) can answer a few more questions: How good is the audio quality when having a GSM voice conversation with another person? Can the other caller hear you clearly without being distracted by an echo of their own voice (as happens on at least some GTA01s, mine included)? Is the Neo's speaker volume loud enough for you to hear the other caller in the presence of noise (e.g. outside on a sidewalk)? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My Openmoko blog is aimed at helping Freerunner users get started
Hi, It would be great if you could post instructions for emulating the new software solar.george On Mon, 19 May 2008 14:54:56 -0700 Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've just posted about the software update that has been discussed > here today, so I figured I'd take this opportunity to tell you all > about my blog: > > gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com > > I welcome comments but please be gentle. I'm new to blogging. > > Seriously, feedback and suggestions are welcomed. > > Michael > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Europe Distribution
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Your question was answered 27 minutes before you wrote to the mailinglist. see: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-May/017531.html I guess somewhere in the last week of june (when shipped via air). But this is just my guess! Greetings Bastian Samuel Melrose schrieb: | Oh right, well thank you =]. | | You say selling, sorry to take your words so seriously... but are they already on sale? I've heard a few people say that they are on sale in the US, but I've seen nothing. Has anyone got anything on this please? | | I know its probably on the mailing list somewhere, just can't for the life of me find a definite answer. | | Thanks very much, | Samuel Melrose | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | On 19 May 2008, at 17:50, enaut wrote: | |> Samuel Melrose schrieb: |>> Hey everyone, |>> I noticed on the wiki that there was some discussion about a |>> distribution center in Europe to make it easier for people over here |>> to purchase Neo phones (well, I'm sure I remember reading it |>> somewhere, unless it was a very weird dream, but nevermind =S). If I |>> am correct, it said that it was looked into but came over as too |>> expensive? Or not viable for the company? |> |> http://www.pr-inside.com/openmoko-signs-deal-with-german-distributor-r384865.htm |> - thats pretty official I think :) |> |> plus there are multiple webstores selling the Freerunner. |> |> ___ |> Openmoko community mailing list |> community@lists.openmoko.org |> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMgexlYiDScJJ+7QRAoO8AJ4zqgzAkMGf5pHDFet/nyqarjTlhgCeJ9rH 9hxswxcBWvEk21Hvn5EQaDo= =MbNo -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Whats up with the freerunner mass production?
On Mon, 19 May 2008 15:12:12 -0700 "steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > hate logistics yet? I'm sure that some people enjoy organising stuff like that, I'm certainly not one of them! Good to know that the phone is beginning to materialise though, solar.george ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My Openmoko blog is aimed at helping Freerunner users get started
Good idea, but not top priority for a little while. M Brandon Kruse wrote: Hey michael. I think this is a great idea for you and other openmoko employees, but why not just run your own wordpress? Its so simple. Blogs.openmoko.com or something. Either way, the idea of internal people blogging is great :) -- Brandon Kruse On May 19, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've just posted about the software update that has been discussed here today, so I figured I'd take this opportunity to tell you all about my blog: gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com I welcome comments but please be gentle. I'm new to blogging. Seriously, feedback and suggestions are welcomed. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Europe Distribution
One of the resellers in Germany appeared to be accepting orders last I looked, but production handsets aren't shipping yet. See Steve's post from this evening for an official update on timescales. Some key developers have recently received preproduction handsets, so someone may have mistaken this for them being on sale. On Monday 19 May 2008, Samuel Melrose wrote: > Oh right, well thank you =]. > > You say selling, sorry to take your words so seriously... but are they > already on sale? I've heard a few people say that they are on sale in > the US, but I've seen nothing. Has anyone got anything on this please? > > I know its probably on the mailing list somewhere, just can't for the > life of me find a definite answer. > > Thanks very much, > Samuel Melrose > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On 19 May 2008, at 17:50, enaut wrote: > > Samuel Melrose schrieb: > >> Hey everyone, > >> I noticed on the wiki that there was some discussion about a > >> distribution center in Europe to make it easier for people over here > >> to purchase Neo phones (well, I'm sure I remember reading it > >> somewhere, unless it was a very weird dream, but nevermind =S). If I > >> am correct, it said that it was looked into but came over as too > >> expensive? Or not viable for the company? > > > > http://www.pr-inside.com/openmoko-signs-deal-with-german-distributor-r384 > >865.htm - thats pretty official I think :) > > > > plus there are multiple webstores selling the Freerunner. > > > > ___ > > Openmoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Whats up with the freerunner mass production?
Ok . . . this a completely self interested question. I'm ALREADY IN CHINA and would happily venture to the factory to get my hands on one of these (I've been using a company phone for the last month waiting for it to appear - the boss is starting to wonder). Is this possible? Where in China is the phone assembled? On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 5:54 AM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > yes. I figure the first of June or such phones will ship out of china to > Disty in EU and our HUB in the US. > > We still need to figure whether to air freight or sea ship. that's a 2-3 > diffrence right there. > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander > Frøyseth > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 1:19 PM > To: List for Openmoko community discussion > Subject: Re: Whats up with the freerunner mass production? > > Can you estimate a time frame? > Please > > Alexander Frøyseth > steve skrev: >> The factory made us do one more Pre MP run to maximize yield. basically > you >> build a XyZ phones. you test them, Xy% pass the test, and the factory > says. >> "good. can you reduce the test time and decrease the false negatives on > the >> test software, because that bad phone really was good." arrg. >> >> Talked to sean this AM and everything looks good. >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steffen Winkler >> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 1:54 AM >> To: community@lists.openmoko.org >> Subject: Whats up with the freerunner mass production? >> >> Hey guys, >> >> A few days ago, Steve said that the mass production will start on May >> 16...now, we have May 19 and I haven't found any announcement/confirmation >> that they are producing...so whats up? >> Are they already producing the Freerunner? >> >> Steffen >> > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- Mischa Beitz http://mischa.beitz.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPRS IP Networking
Hey, Erm, you say that SMS is free, or at-least receiving them is. Maybe if you could implement such an application, you could get your server to SMS your phone when you have important messages with a special trigger code, and then you're phone would connect and download the messages? Not sure if this is possible, or if it would be cheaper / waste of time... But if you were going with text messages, it'd be expensive to fit anything more than a small message on? Or just the old fashioned way of the server sending you a text alert for you to read, to say that you need to go download then, because there is (x) new messages. Thanks, Samuel Melrose [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 19 May 2008, at 17:15, Steven Kurylo wrote: On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 10:33 PM, Brandon Kruse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Either way, you could write a simple program on the phone to keep connecting to an end point (server) and give the server reverse access (stunnel) back to the device. Yeah, thats what I was hoping to avoid :-) I was thinking of looking at the cost savings of implementing a mail push system versus imap idle. The server would push important mails, but otherwise my client wouldn't check unless I asked it too. Obviously the break even point depends on how many messages you get an hour. Though around here incoming SMS are free, so I could push that way... -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Europe Distribution
Oh right, well thank you =]. You say selling, sorry to take your words so seriously... but are they already on sale? I've heard a few people say that they are on sale in the US, but I've seen nothing. Has anyone got anything on this please? I know its probably on the mailing list somewhere, just can't for the life of me find a definite answer. Thanks very much, Samuel Melrose [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 19 May 2008, at 17:50, enaut wrote: Samuel Melrose schrieb: Hey everyone, I noticed on the wiki that there was some discussion about a distribution center in Europe to make it easier for people over here to purchase Neo phones (well, I'm sure I remember reading it somewhere, unless it was a very weird dream, but nevermind =S). If I am correct, it said that it was looked into but came over as too expensive? Or not viable for the company? http://www.pr-inside.com/openmoko-signs-deal-with-german-distributor-r384865.htm - thats pretty official I think :) plus there are multiple webstores selling the Freerunner. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Whats up with the freerunner mass production?
I'm a Dope. best case is I would start to test phones around the first of june. Then pack and ship. Air freight is probably 1 week to Fremont ca. Sea is like 3-4 weeks. hate logistics yet? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 2:55 PM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: RE: Whats up with the freerunner mass production? yes. I figure the first of June or such phones will ship out of china to Disty in EU and our HUB in the US. We still need to figure whether to air freight or sea ship. thats a 2-3 diffrence right there. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Frøyseth Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 1:19 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Whats up with the freerunner mass production? Can you estimate a time frame? Please Alexander Frøyseth steve skrev: > The factory made us do one more Pre MP run to maximize yield. basically you > build a XyZ phones. you test them, Xy% pass the test, and the factory says. > "good. can you reduce the test time and decrease the false negatives on the > test software, because that bad phone really was good." arrg. > > Talked to sean this AM and everything looks good. > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steffen Winkler > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 1:54 AM > To: community@lists.openmoko.org > Subject: Whats up with the freerunner mass production? > > Hey guys, > > A few days ago, Steve said that the mass production will start on May > 16...now, we have May 19 and I haven't found any announcement/confirmation > that they are producing...so whats up? > Are they already producing the Freerunner? > > Steffen > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My Openmoko blog is aimed at helping Freerunner users get started
Hey michael. I think this is a great idea for you and other openmoko employees, but why not just run your own wordpress? Its so simple. Blogs.openmoko.com or something. Either way, the idea of internal people blogging is great :) -- Brandon Kruse On May 19, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've just posted about the software update that has been discussed here today, so I figured I'd take this opportunity to tell you all about my blog: gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com I welcome comments but please be gentle. I'm new to blogging. Seriously, feedback and suggestions are welcomed. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Whats up with the freerunner mass production?
yes. I figure the first of June or such phones will ship out of china to Disty in EU and our HUB in the US. We still need to figure whether to air freight or sea ship. thats a 2-3 diffrence right there. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Frøyseth Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 1:19 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Whats up with the freerunner mass production? Can you estimate a time frame? Please Alexander Frøyseth steve skrev: > The factory made us do one more Pre MP run to maximize yield. basically you > build a XyZ phones. you test them, Xy% pass the test, and the factory says. > "good. can you reduce the test time and decrease the false negatives on the > test software, because that bad phone really was good." arrg. > > Talked to sean this AM and everything looks good. > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steffen Winkler > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 1:54 AM > To: community@lists.openmoko.org > Subject: Whats up with the freerunner mass production? > > Hey guys, > > A few days ago, Steve said that the mass production will start on May > 16...now, we have May 19 and I haven't found any announcement/confirmation > that they are producing...so whats up? > Are they already producing the Freerunner? > > Steffen > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
My Openmoko blog is aimed at helping Freerunner users get started
I've just posted about the software update that has been discussed here today, so I figured I'd take this opportunity to tell you all about my blog: gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com I welcome comments but please be gentle. I'm new to blogging. Seriously, feedback and suggestions are welcomed. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko codebases with Linux Cross Reference (LXR)
Andy Green wrote: > | currently i would rather like to put that onto the 'todo when we have a > | bit more time again' list. > > "Never", then :-) didn't say that. but we have to prioritize stuff, else we will sink that boat pretty fast by drilling to many holes without proper plugging em. ;) > | also i think there are some important questions IF we do that: > | > | - which of our many source repos do we want in such a thing? > > There's only one "source repo" for kernel, git. It only makes sense to > have stable branch I guess, since that is what most people will have on > their device. > > | - how and when do they get updated/synced? > > Just do it once a day should be fine. My google method often gets me > 2.6.17 and even that is OK for many things, like which include file is > such and such struct defined in... grep is very noisy for popular struct > names but lxr understands the definition action and lists it separately. so we basically have only one kernel 'version' in there which is git 'stable' and delete and regenerate that every night? > | besides that it seems atleast 'do-able' (even if i really do not like > | perl code anymore ;)) > > I read it was ugly to set up, but CPAN is the man for the perl stuff. still... perl is and will stay ugly ;) (just my own view).. too much 'write only', not intended for reading by people != the author. i have it on my wishlist ;) -- Joachim Steiger Openmoko Central Services ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko codebases with Linux Cross Reference (LXR)
Joachim Steiger wrote: > Nicholas A. Bellinger > | I wonder if it would be useful for devel purposes to have the OM > | sourcetree imported into LXR (http://lxr.linux.no/) > > currently i would rather like to put that onto the 'todo when we have > a bit more time again' list. This seems like a great candidate for some community involvement/ contribution. As the repositories are all open (right?), anyone with a knack for this kind of thing could set up a http-browsable repo. Once someone has a nice setup, we can reward him by pointing 'lxr.openmoko.org' to his machine and awarding him 'official openmoko lxr maintainer' status. Some people get a kick out of that kind of stuff - speaking from experience, as I'm like that myself :). If it happens: cool! If it doesn't: apparently there isn't all that much interest in the idea... natural selection :). Arnout (I quite like the idea, but I'm unlikely to find time to take a shot at it myself in the near future) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Fredrik Wendt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Travis Tabbal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Carlo E. Prelz wrote: >> >> Those apps are the heart of the phone, and I would not want to have >> C++/QT versions running on my phone. >> >> I really don't understand the sentiment there. If the app works well and gets > the job done, why does it matter what language it's written in or what widget > toolkit it uses? > > Language DOES matter. We use English on this list. I doubt that 50 % of those > involved and interested in this wonderful project have English as their mother > tounge. Programming language. :) Openmoko's new software stack is language agnostic. A Python app works cleanly with a C++, for instance. > > We're all just interacting with and describing the same physical world, yet > there are so many different ways to go about it and, basically, people tend to > not be as fluent in more than one or two languages. Hence, if you want people > to > get up to speed and act "naturally" with as few obstacles as possible in the > way > - then you'll want to choose language(s)/environment used carefully. > > My two euro cents. > > / Fredrik > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: picking up voicemail
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Not at all. When I enter a password in my blackberry, it shows the character for a second, then puts in a *. The Samsung Blackjack 2 does this too, pretty handy to making sure you've typed what you intended. Lasse Poulsen wrote: On my old old old Nokia 1610 i remember it was posible to save numbers with PAUSE and WAIT in them... pause ment to pause sending digit codes for ~5 sec - and wait would stop sending until send were pressed. I think the standard pause (represented by a letter 'p' in the string of numbers to dial) is only 2 seconds, but you can put as many pauses in as you like. The 'wait' (represented by a 'w' in the dial string, generally was only used after the telephone number that basically tells the phone to wait until being answered -- that way you didn't have to guess how long to wait (how many rings) before a voicemail application would answer. I seem to recall the 'wait' function on my old Nokia phones would also pause until you hit a certain key before continuing, but I don't remember which key that was. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
Travis Tabbal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Carlo E. Prelz wrote: > > Those apps are the heart of the phone, and I would not want to have > C++/QT versions running on my phone. > > I really don't understand the sentiment there. If the app works well and gets the job done, why does it matter what language it's written in or what widget toolkit it uses? Language DOES matter. We use English on this list. I doubt that 50 % of those involved and interested in this wonderful project have English as their mother tounge. We're all just interacting with and describing the same physical world, yet there are so many different ways to go about it and, basically, people tend to not be as fluent in more than one or two languages. Hence, if you want people to get up to speed and act "naturally" with as few obstacles as possible in the way - then you'll want to choose language(s)/environment used carefully. My two euro cents. / Fredrik ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: picking up voicemail
On Mon, 19 May 2008 11:49:20 -0700 "Steven Kurylo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Steven Milburn > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hmmm, the two would seem to counteract each other. (not displaying, > > but remembering it for you) > > > > Not at all. When I enter a password in my blackberry, it shows the > character for a second, then puts in a *. This stops me from > mistyping it and stops shoulder surfing. For the voicemail, there is > an option where I give it my pin to remember. Then when I dial > voicemail, it calls, pauses for a few seconds, then does the password. > > If you normally dial digits after the phone number, I wouldn't expect > it to remember. That would be silly, it wouldn't know what it was > saving. > On my old old old Nokia 1610 i remember it was posible to save numbers with PAUSE and WAIT in them... pause ment to pause sending digit codes for ~5 sec - and wait would stop sending until send were pressed. It would be nice fx. if you are calling something like the local bus or rail service that often have a long "press 1 to contintue" sequence. - Lasse Poulsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Whats up with the freerunner mass production?
Can you estimate a time frame? Please Alexander Frøyseth steve skrev: The factory made us do one more Pre MP run to maximize yield. basically you build a XyZ phones. you test them, Xy% pass the test, and the factory says. "good. can you reduce the test time and decrease the false negatives on the test software, because that bad phone really was good." arrg. Talked to sean this AM and everything looks good. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steffen Winkler Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 1:54 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Whats up with the freerunner mass production? Hey guys, A few days ago, Steve said that the mass production will start on May 16...now, we have May 19 and I haven't found any announcement/confirmation that they are producing...so whats up? Are they already producing the Freerunner? Steffen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Whats up with the freerunner mass production?
The factory made us do one more Pre MP run to maximize yield. basically you build a XyZ phones. you test them, Xy% pass the test, and the factory says. "good. can you reduce the test time and decrease the false negatives on the test software, because that bad phone really was good." arrg. Talked to sean this AM and everything looks good. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steffen Winkler Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 1:54 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Whats up with the freerunner mass production? Hey guys, A few days ago, Steve said that the mass production will start on May 16...now, we have May 19 and I haven't found any announcement/confirmation that they are producing...so whats up? Are they already producing the Freerunner? Steffen -- Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
I second that. Is there a way to test the new software on qemu? Looking forward to start hacking stuff on my OM... Ivo On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Mo Abrahams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How does one go about getting the new software version as a qemu image? > I am intrigued... and since I have (in the last week or so) started > having doubts about getting a freerunner I would very much like > something to inspire me again. It is not the freerunners fault, by the > way, that I am having doubts. Just that I have just got myself a new > contract and I quite like the phone I am getting with it... while on the > topic... can freerunner be used without a simcard (obviously not the gsm > parts, but everything else?)? > > Mo. > > On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 10:27 -0400, Ian Darwin wrote: > > I have been using a FreeRunner for a few days with a pre-pre-alpha > > snapshot of the ASU software. For those who have been off-list for a > > while, or who have not been looking at the Wiki much, the April > > Software Update switches the Window Manager from matchbox to > > Enlightenment (E17) and the main applications from the GTK-based apps > > (developed by OpenMoko and OpenedHand) to QTopia (but using X11, of > course). > > > > The new phone is in the same case, so it looks and feels a lot like a > > GTA01. I think the partition numbers for dfu-util have changed; newer > > versions of dfu-util allow you to use the partition names instead of the > > numbers. Beware. > > > > The Home Page (aka Launcher) can now be displayed either in an Icon Grid > > (conventional cell phone style, e.g., Blackberry, and the traditional > > QTopia format) or a "slider" style (the latter demonstrated by MokoNinja > > here: http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/freerunner1.4.swf (flash > > required). > > > > The small home/current-apps menu has been replaced by a larger > > slide-down top panel, listing the current apps, and containing the time, > > battery panel, GSM on/off, qwerty keyboard on/off, Configuration, and > > the Enlightenment menu. > > > > Neither of the above is, AFAIK, cast in stone. > > > > I must admit I have mixed feelings about the switch from OM/GTK apps to > > QTopia. However, I recognize the need to get something "finished" in a > > reasonable time and I infer Sean et al felt the need to go this way; > > in hindsight, building the whole thing from scratch is a daunting task, > > and something that QTopia has been honing for several years. > > > > The QTopia apps do have a somewhat more conventional "cell phone" > > feel to them (see my screenshot of the Contacts "Overview" page here: > > http://www.darwinsys.com/tmp/contacts1.png). > > > > So, I think we're in good hands here. On to the "experience". > > > > Short form: functionally, it works. Among other things, the phone wakes > > up reliably on incoming rings (assuming it's booted and suspended, of > > course), and GSM voice works after a resume. > > > > There are still some minor glitches. I hope I'm not out of line > > reporting these here, given how pre-pre my software is, but Steve has > > been asking me to report on this list since my FreeRunner arrived. I > > remind everybody reading this to remember that this is PRE-PRE-RELEASE > > software. None of this intended as criticism of those who worked under > > time deadline to make this early release ready for the show I was > > presenting OM at! Nonetheless these are things that I would not like to > > have fall through the cracks. > > > > 1) Incoming calls do wake up the phone, but by the time the dialer > > appears on screen, several rings have gone by, and, by the time you > > press Answer and get it recognized, the screen hasn't responded, the > > Answer button changes to Hangup, so if you double-clicked it, you can > > easily hang up on your caller without intending to. > > > > 2) The ASU software features a qwerty-keyboard. It is switchable between > > alphabetics and numerics; unfortunately the gesture needed to do this > > (a triangle drawn counter-clockwise from lower left) is a bit hard to > > get right; hopefully there will be a button to switch this. As well, > > the current version of ASU uses QTopia's input manager, offering what > > looks like a predictive style but is actually doing a dictionary > > lookup; I find this very distracting compared to a plain do-what-I-type > > keyboard, and would welcome an easy way to turn this off (I thought > > Lorne Potter posted this once, but I couldn't find it). > > > > 3) It's easy to accidentally start an application (thus slowing down > > what you're trying to really do) while scrolling the home screen in icon > > grid mode. > > > > 4) The Preferences that are in the top slide-down panel's Wrench icon > > should presumably be merged with the Preferences App. > > > > 5) The shutdown dialog does not have a cancel or Back button. > > And, it often doesn't actually shutdown. > > > > All for now. Again, please remember that this is very early access. > >
RE: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
Ian, Great Update thanks! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 10:38 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions Ian Darwin wrote: > I have been using a FreeRunner for a few days with a pre-pre-alpha > snapshot of the ASU software. For those who have been off-list for a > while, or who have not been looking at the Wiki much, the April > Software Update switches the Window Manager from matchbox to > Enlightenment (E17) and the main applications from the GTK-based apps > (developed by OpenMoko and OpenedHand) to QTopia (but using X11, of > course). > > The new phone is in the same case, so it looks and feels a lot like a > GTA01. I think the partition numbers for dfu-util have changed; newer > versions of dfu-util allow you to use the partition names instead of the > numbers. Beware. > > The Home Page (aka Launcher) can now be displayed either in an Icon Grid > (conventional cell phone style, e.g., Blackberry, and the traditional > QTopia format) or a "slider" style (the latter demonstrated by MokoNinja > here: http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/freerunner1.4.swf (flash > required). > > The small home/current-apps menu has been replaced by a larger > slide-down top panel, listing the current apps, and containing the time, > battery panel, GSM on/off, qwerty keyboard on/off, Configuration, and > the Enlightenment menu. > > Neither of the above is, AFAIK, cast in stone. > > I must admit I have mixed feelings about the switch from OM/GTK apps to > QTopia. However, I recognize the need to get something "finished" in a > reasonable time and I infer Sean et al felt the need to go this way; > in hindsight, building the whole thing from scratch is a daunting task, > and something that QTopia has been honing for several years. > > The QTopia apps do have a somewhat more conventional "cell phone" > feel to them (see my screenshot of the Contacts "Overview" page here: > http://www.darwinsys.com/tmp/contacts1.png). > > So, I think we're in good hands here. On to the "experience". > > Short form: functionally, it works. Among other things, the phone wakes > up reliably on incoming rings (assuming it's booted and suspended, of > course), and GSM voice works after a resume. > > There are still some minor glitches. I hope I'm not out of line > reporting these here, given how pre-pre my software is, but Steve has > been asking me to report on this list since my FreeRunner arrived. I > remind everybody reading this to remember that this is PRE-PRE-RELEASE > software. None of this intended as criticism of those who worked under > time deadline to make this early release ready for the show I was > presenting OM at! Nonetheless these are things that I would not like to > have fall through the cracks. > > 1) Incoming calls do wake up the phone, but by the time the dialer > appears on screen, several rings have gone by, and, by the time you > press Answer and get it recognized, the screen hasn't responded, the > Answer button changes to Hangup, so if you double-clicked it, you can > easily hang up on your caller without intending to. > > 2) The ASU software features a qwerty-keyboard. It is switchable between > alphabetics and numerics; unfortunately the gesture needed to do this > (a triangle drawn counter-clockwise from lower left) is a bit hard to > get right; hopefully there will be a button to switch this. As well, > the current version of ASU uses QTopia's input manager, offering what > looks like a predictive style but is actually doing a dictionary > lookup; I find this very distracting compared to a plain do-what-I-type > keyboard, and would welcome an easy way to turn this off (I thought > Lorne Potter posted this once, but I couldn't find it). > > 3) It's easy to accidentally start an application (thus slowing down > what you're trying to really do) while scrolling the home screen in icon > grid mode. > > 4) The Preferences that are in the top slide-down panel's Wrench icon > should presumably be merged with the Preferences App. > > 5) The shutdown dialog does not have a cancel or Back button. > And, it often doesn't actually shutdown. > > All for now. Again, please remember that this is very early access. > And don't let my nit-picking distract you from the fact that it's > looking good for something that was merged only a few weeks ago! > > Ian Darwin > Wonderful feedback, Ian. Thanks very much. And thanks for presenting OM at the show. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: picking up voicemail
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Steven Milburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hmmm, the two would seem to counteract each other. (not displaying, but > remembering it for you) > Not at all. When I enter a password in my blackberry, it shows the character for a second, then puts in a *. This stops me from mistyping it and stops shoulder surfing. For the voicemail, there is an option where I give it my pin to remember. Then when I dial voicemail, it calls, pauses for a few seconds, then does the password. If you normally dial digits after the phone number, I wouldn't expect it to remember. That would be silly, it wouldn't know what it was saving. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
Ian Darwin wrote: I have been using a FreeRunner for a few days with a pre-pre-alpha snapshot of the ASU software. For those who have been off-list for a while, or who have not been looking at the Wiki much, the April Software Update switches the Window Manager from matchbox to Enlightenment (E17) and the main applications from the GTK-based apps (developed by OpenMoko and OpenedHand) to QTopia (but using X11, of course). The new phone is in the same case, so it looks and feels a lot like a GTA01. I think the partition numbers for dfu-util have changed; newer versions of dfu-util allow you to use the partition names instead of the numbers. Beware. The Home Page (aka Launcher) can now be displayed either in an Icon Grid (conventional cell phone style, e.g., Blackberry, and the traditional QTopia format) or a "slider" style (the latter demonstrated by MokoNinja here: http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/freerunner1.4.swf (flash required). The small home/current-apps menu has been replaced by a larger slide-down top panel, listing the current apps, and containing the time, battery panel, GSM on/off, qwerty keyboard on/off, Configuration, and the Enlightenment menu. Neither of the above is, AFAIK, cast in stone. I must admit I have mixed feelings about the switch from OM/GTK apps to QTopia. However, I recognize the need to get something "finished" in a reasonable time and I infer Sean et al felt the need to go this way; in hindsight, building the whole thing from scratch is a daunting task, and something that QTopia has been honing for several years. The QTopia apps do have a somewhat more conventional "cell phone" feel to them (see my screenshot of the Contacts "Overview" page here: http://www.darwinsys.com/tmp/contacts1.png). So, I think we're in good hands here. On to the "experience". Short form: functionally, it works. Among other things, the phone wakes up reliably on incoming rings (assuming it's booted and suspended, of course), and GSM voice works after a resume. There are still some minor glitches. I hope I'm not out of line reporting these here, given how pre-pre my software is, but Steve has been asking me to report on this list since my FreeRunner arrived. I remind everybody reading this to remember that this is PRE-PRE-RELEASE software. None of this intended as criticism of those who worked under time deadline to make this early release ready for the show I was presenting OM at! Nonetheless these are things that I would not like to have fall through the cracks. 1) Incoming calls do wake up the phone, but by the time the dialer appears on screen, several rings have gone by, and, by the time you press Answer and get it recognized, the screen hasn't responded, the Answer button changes to Hangup, so if you double-clicked it, you can easily hang up on your caller without intending to. 2) The ASU software features a qwerty-keyboard. It is switchable between alphabetics and numerics; unfortunately the gesture needed to do this (a triangle drawn counter-clockwise from lower left) is a bit hard to get right; hopefully there will be a button to switch this. As well, the current version of ASU uses QTopia's input manager, offering what looks like a predictive style but is actually doing a dictionary lookup; I find this very distracting compared to a plain do-what-I-type keyboard, and would welcome an easy way to turn this off (I thought Lorne Potter posted this once, but I couldn't find it). 3) It's easy to accidentally start an application (thus slowing down what you're trying to really do) while scrolling the home screen in icon grid mode. 4) The Preferences that are in the top slide-down panel's Wrench icon should presumably be merged with the Preferences App. 5) The shutdown dialog does not have a cancel or Back button. And, it often doesn't actually shutdown. All for now. Again, please remember that this is very early access. And don't let my nit-picking distract you from the fact that it's looking good for something that was merged only a few weeks ago! Ian Darwin Wonderful feedback, Ian. Thanks very much. And thanks for presenting OM at the show. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: picking up voicemail
Hmmm, the two would seem to counteract each other. (not displaying, but remembering it for you) I would be happy if it acted like my office phone does. It only displays, and re-dials, the actual phone number, and nothing after that. This is easy to do on a cell phone. Display the number typed in before "SEND" is pressed, then don't display anymore numbers. I wouldn't want anything I type after the phone number to be remembered for me. This information may be: * Credit card number * bank account number and pin * voicemail pin for any other system you use. On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Steven Kurylo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 6:34 PM, Ian Darwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > There ought to be a specialization of Dialer to be able to type your > > voicemail password without having it echo, switchable dynamically. > > > > Just an idea - my son was complaining that his cheap Nokia didn't have > > such a feature, so I figured that OpenMoko should > > And it should save the password, so you don't have to type it each time. > > -- > Steven Kurylo > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Carlo E. Prelz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Those apps are the heart of the phone, and I would not want to have > C++/QT versions running on my phone. I really don't understand the sentiment there. If the app works well and gets the job done, why does it matter what language it's written in or what widget toolkit it uses? I could see not wanting a closed app on OM, but it sounds like there is source available. Ideally, all interaction at the API level could go through something like dbus and then you could write your plugin in LISP or BASIC for all anyone else cares. I doubt we are there yet, but it could be added as we go along. Or, you could pick up the older GTK apps and finish them up. It sounds like the shipping apps are a placeholder to get a nice working phone for shipping Freerunner. It's an open platform, so switch them out if you want the other ones. Or improve the new ones. Or write new ones from scratch in Ruby. Whatever. :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Ian Darwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have been using a FreeRunner for a few days with a pre-pre-alpha > snapshot of the ASU software. I've done Daily Snapshot Reviews since January. I enjoy bug hunting and communication. Where can I get this image? Does it run on a Neo1973? > For those who have been off-list for a > while, or who have not been looking at the Wiki much, the April > Software Update switches the Window Manager from matchbox to > Enlightenment (E17) and the main applications from the GTK-based apps > (developed by OpenMoko and OpenedHand) to QTopia (but using X11, of course). > > The new phone is in the same case, so it looks and feels a lot like a > GTA01. I think the partition numbers for dfu-util have changed; newer > versions of dfu-util allow you to use the partition names instead of the > numbers. Beware. > > The Home Page (aka Launcher) can now be displayed either in an Icon Grid > (conventional cell phone style, e.g., Blackberry, and the traditional > QTopia format) or a "slider" style (the latter demonstrated by MokoNinja > here: http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/freerunner1.4.swf (flash > required). For those without Flash, here's a video of the same concept. http://illume.projects.openmoko.org/illume-vv-01.avi > > The small home/current-apps menu has been replaced by a larger > slide-down top panel, listing the current apps, and containing the time, > battery panel, GSM on/off, qwerty keyboard on/off, Configuration, and > the Enlightenment menu. > > Neither of the above is, AFAIK, cast in stone. > > I must admit I have mixed feelings about the switch from OM/GTK apps to > QTopia. I personally had those reservations as well. From a non-technical standpoint, I think Openmoko "did right by me". I know nothing about hackability on a code level, but I know my previous dislike of Qtopia was because of the lack of flexbility from not running on X11. I also had doubts... Qtopia has been around for a while and never made waves but Openmoko held promise. I felt making the switch to Qtopia was a comprimise on that. However, I don't think so now. The work done to port Qtopia to Xorg created a LOT of opportunity for the "Open" part of the Openmoko mission statement to be true. Third part developers have just as much ability to hack as they do with the 2007.1 stack (arguably more so) now that the base includes Qtopia but allows for other languages and toolkits. I think this will be made even easier with the service-based approach that will expose functionality cleanly across those toolkits/languages. >However, I recognize the need to get something "finished" in a > reasonable time and I infer Sean et al felt the need to go this way; Sometimes people forget that Openmoko Inc. can't make hackable phones unless they SELL hackable phones. Hardware isn't free. Staffing, advertising, fabrication, procurement, shipping, design (et cetera) costs money. I think everyone here can truly respect that, if not like it. I'm happy that Openmoko was able to make a decision that will generate revenue more quickly without comprimising the objectives in the first place. > in hindsight, building the whole thing from scratch is a daunting task, > and something that QTopia has been honing for several years. Free Software projects have one major strength - the ability to share. I don't see collaboration and adaptation to be a bad thing at all. I'm actually kind of glad that Qtopia will be an included part of Openmoko. Including it doesn't diminish the ability for someone to write the application they would have liked to see as "Openmoko" but it does give people who aren't writing apps some more functional applications. > > The QTopia apps do have a somewhat more conventional "cell phone" > feel to them (see my screenshot of the Contacts "Overview" page here: > http://www.darwinsys.com/tmp/contacts1.png). This is good for a mass market product, I think. Having a hackable phone aimed at end users is a good way to go. For the users who never want to tweak, let it be familiar. For users who are fine hacking, give them the power to. With the expansions of Qtopia by the Om dev team, I think that balance it being struck. > > So, I think we're in good hands here. On to the "experience". > > Short form: functionally, it works. Among other things, the phone wakes > up reliably on incoming rings (assuming it's booted and suspended, of > course), and GSM voice works after a resume. > > There are still some minor glitches. I hope I'm not out of line > reporting these here, given how pre-pre my software is, but Steve has > been asking me to report on this list since my FreeRunner arrived. I > remind everybody reading this to remember that this is PRE-PRE-RELEASE > software. None of this intended as criticism of those who worked under time > deadline to make this early release ready for the show I was presenting OM > at! Nonetheless these are things that I would not like to have
Re: Europe Distribution
Samuel Melrose schrieb: > Hey everyone, > I noticed on the wiki that there was some discussion about a > distribution center in Europe to make it easier for people over here > to purchase Neo phones (well, I'm sure I remember reading it > somewhere, unless it was a very weird dream, but nevermind =S). If I > am correct, it said that it was looked into but came over as too > expensive? Or not viable for the company? http://www.pr-inside.com/openmoko-signs-deal-with-german-distributor-r384865.htm - thats pretty official I think :) plus there are multiple webstores selling the Freerunner. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
Subject: Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions Date: Mon 19 May 08 12:16:30PM -0400 Quoting Ian Darwin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > > I would like to know if the original GTK-based libraries and apps have > > been left in a decent (useable) state, and if it will be possible to > > switch to them in a direct and clean way. > > OF COURSE THEY ARE :-) Carsten has made it very clear on this same > list within the last few days that all the major libraries - GTK+2, > QT, efl, - are and will be available. He wrote about libraries, not about the phone/pim apps. Have the apps been orphaned? Those apps are the heart of the phone, and I would not want to have C++/QT versions running on my phone. Carlo -- * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte, * K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe * di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: picking up voicemail
On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 6:34 PM, Ian Darwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There ought to be a specialization of Dialer to be able to type your > voicemail password without having it echo, switchable dynamically. > > Just an idea - my son was complaining that his cheap Nokia didn't have > such a feature, so I figured that OpenMoko should And it should save the password, so you don't have to type it each time. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
> > I would like to know if the original GTK-based libraries and apps have > been left in a decent (useable) state, and if it will be possible to > switch to them in a direct and clean way. OF COURSE THEY ARE :-) Carsten has made it very clear on this same list within the last few days that all the major libraries - GTK+2, QT, efl, - are and will be available. > Thanks for letting us know. This makes the phone much less hackable > for me (c++-based) and thus, if this decision is not reverted, I will > most probably not buy the phone, at least for now. All the libraries are there. All toolkits. All languages(*). It is just as hackable as it was. "Make of it what you will shall be the whole of thy law". Ian Darwin * C and C++ and sh ship; many others available but you may have to "opkg install" them. For Java(tm) install Jalimo. Other languages available. Your language may vary. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPRS IP Networking
On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 10:33 PM, Brandon Kruse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Either way, you could write a simple program on the phone to keep connecting > to an end point (server) and give the server reverse access (stunnel) back > to the device. Yeah, thats what I was hoping to avoid :-) I was thinking of looking at the cost savings of implementing a mail push system versus imap idle. The server would push important mails, but otherwise my client wouldn't check unless I asked it too. Obviously the break even point depends on how many messages you get an hour. Though around here incoming SMS are free, so I could push that way... -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
Hi to all (have been reading along this list for a long time :), Sure you can use the Freerunner without gsm. It will just be was any PDA without gsm-modem (well it will be better ;) Jake On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Mo Abrahams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How does one go about getting the new software version as a qemu image? > I am intrigued... and since I have (in the last week or so) started > having doubts about getting a freerunner I would very much like > something to inspire me again. It is not the freerunners fault, by the > way, that I am having doubts. Just that I have just got myself a new > contract and I quite like the phone I am getting with it... while on the > topic... can freerunner be used without a simcard (obviously not the gsm > parts, but everything else?)? > > Mo. > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
How does one go about getting the new software version as a qemu image? I am intrigued... and since I have (in the last week or so) started having doubts about getting a freerunner I would very much like something to inspire me again. It is not the freerunners fault, by the way, that I am having doubts. Just that I have just got myself a new contract and I quite like the phone I am getting with it... while on the topic... can freerunner be used without a simcard (obviously not the gsm parts, but everything else?)? Mo. On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 10:27 -0400, Ian Darwin wrote: > I have been using a FreeRunner for a few days with a pre-pre-alpha > snapshot of the ASU software. For those who have been off-list for a > while, or who have not been looking at the Wiki much, the April > Software Update switches the Window Manager from matchbox to > Enlightenment (E17) and the main applications from the GTK-based apps > (developed by OpenMoko and OpenedHand) to QTopia (but using X11, of course). > > The new phone is in the same case, so it looks and feels a lot like a > GTA01. I think the partition numbers for dfu-util have changed; newer > versions of dfu-util allow you to use the partition names instead of the > numbers. Beware. > > The Home Page (aka Launcher) can now be displayed either in an Icon Grid > (conventional cell phone style, e.g., Blackberry, and the traditional > QTopia format) or a "slider" style (the latter demonstrated by MokoNinja > here: http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/freerunner1.4.swf (flash > required). > > The small home/current-apps menu has been replaced by a larger > slide-down top panel, listing the current apps, and containing the time, > battery panel, GSM on/off, qwerty keyboard on/off, Configuration, and > the Enlightenment menu. > > Neither of the above is, AFAIK, cast in stone. > > I must admit I have mixed feelings about the switch from OM/GTK apps to > QTopia. However, I recognize the need to get something "finished" in a > reasonable time and I infer Sean et al felt the need to go this way; > in hindsight, building the whole thing from scratch is a daunting task, > and something that QTopia has been honing for several years. > > The QTopia apps do have a somewhat more conventional "cell phone" > feel to them (see my screenshot of the Contacts "Overview" page here: > http://www.darwinsys.com/tmp/contacts1.png). > > So, I think we're in good hands here. On to the "experience". > > Short form: functionally, it works. Among other things, the phone wakes > up reliably on incoming rings (assuming it's booted and suspended, of > course), and GSM voice works after a resume. > > There are still some minor glitches. I hope I'm not out of line > reporting these here, given how pre-pre my software is, but Steve has > been asking me to report on this list since my FreeRunner arrived. I > remind everybody reading this to remember that this is PRE-PRE-RELEASE > software. None of this intended as criticism of those who worked under > time deadline to make this early release ready for the show I was > presenting OM at! Nonetheless these are things that I would not like to > have fall through the cracks. > > 1) Incoming calls do wake up the phone, but by the time the dialer > appears on screen, several rings have gone by, and, by the time you > press Answer and get it recognized, the screen hasn't responded, the > Answer button changes to Hangup, so if you double-clicked it, you can > easily hang up on your caller without intending to. > > 2) The ASU software features a qwerty-keyboard. It is switchable between > alphabetics and numerics; unfortunately the gesture needed to do this > (a triangle drawn counter-clockwise from lower left) is a bit hard to > get right; hopefully there will be a button to switch this. As well, > the current version of ASU uses QTopia's input manager, offering what > looks like a predictive style but is actually doing a dictionary > lookup; I find this very distracting compared to a plain do-what-I-type > keyboard, and would welcome an easy way to turn this off (I thought > Lorne Potter posted this once, but I couldn't find it). > > 3) It's easy to accidentally start an application (thus slowing down > what you're trying to really do) while scrolling the home screen in icon > grid mode. > > 4) The Preferences that are in the top slide-down panel's Wrench icon > should presumably be merged with the Preferences App. > > 5) The shutdown dialog does not have a cancel or Back button. > And, it often doesn't actually shutdown. > > All for now. Again, please remember that this is very early access. > And don't let my nit-picking distract you from the fact that it's > looking good for something that was merged only a few weeks ago! > > Ian Darwin > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __
Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
Subject: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions Date: Mon 19 May 08 10:27:25AM -0400 Quoting Ian Darwin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > ... and the main applications from the GTK-based apps > (developed by OpenMoko and OpenedHand) to QTopia (but using X11, of > course). Thanks for letting us know. This makes the phone much less hackable for me (c++-based) and thus, if this decision is not reverted, I will most probably not buy the phone, at least for now. I would like to know if the original GTK-based libraries and apps have been left in a decent (useable) state, and if it will be possible to switch to them in a direct and clean way. Carlo -- * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte, * K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe * di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
I have been using a FreeRunner for a few days with a pre-pre-alpha snapshot of the ASU software. For those who have been off-list for a while, or who have not been looking at the Wiki much, the April Software Update switches the Window Manager from matchbox to Enlightenment (E17) and the main applications from the GTK-based apps (developed by OpenMoko and OpenedHand) to QTopia (but using X11, of course). The new phone is in the same case, so it looks and feels a lot like a GTA01. I think the partition numbers for dfu-util have changed; newer versions of dfu-util allow you to use the partition names instead of the numbers. Beware. The Home Page (aka Launcher) can now be displayed either in an Icon Grid (conventional cell phone style, e.g., Blackberry, and the traditional QTopia format) or a "slider" style (the latter demonstrated by MokoNinja here: http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/freerunner1.4.swf (flash required). The small home/current-apps menu has been replaced by a larger slide-down top panel, listing the current apps, and containing the time, battery panel, GSM on/off, qwerty keyboard on/off, Configuration, and the Enlightenment menu. Neither of the above is, AFAIK, cast in stone. I must admit I have mixed feelings about the switch from OM/GTK apps to QTopia. However, I recognize the need to get something "finished" in a reasonable time and I infer Sean et al felt the need to go this way; in hindsight, building the whole thing from scratch is a daunting task, and something that QTopia has been honing for several years. The QTopia apps do have a somewhat more conventional "cell phone" feel to them (see my screenshot of the Contacts "Overview" page here: http://www.darwinsys.com/tmp/contacts1.png). So, I think we're in good hands here. On to the "experience". Short form: functionally, it works. Among other things, the phone wakes up reliably on incoming rings (assuming it's booted and suspended, of course), and GSM voice works after a resume. There are still some minor glitches. I hope I'm not out of line reporting these here, given how pre-pre my software is, but Steve has been asking me to report on this list since my FreeRunner arrived. I remind everybody reading this to remember that this is PRE-PRE-RELEASE software. None of this intended as criticism of those who worked under time deadline to make this early release ready for the show I was presenting OM at! Nonetheless these are things that I would not like to have fall through the cracks. 1) Incoming calls do wake up the phone, but by the time the dialer appears on screen, several rings have gone by, and, by the time you press Answer and get it recognized, the screen hasn't responded, the Answer button changes to Hangup, so if you double-clicked it, you can easily hang up on your caller without intending to. 2) The ASU software features a qwerty-keyboard. It is switchable between alphabetics and numerics; unfortunately the gesture needed to do this (a triangle drawn counter-clockwise from lower left) is a bit hard to get right; hopefully there will be a button to switch this. As well, the current version of ASU uses QTopia's input manager, offering what looks like a predictive style but is actually doing a dictionary lookup; I find this very distracting compared to a plain do-what-I-type keyboard, and would welcome an easy way to turn this off (I thought Lorne Potter posted this once, but I couldn't find it). 3) It's easy to accidentally start an application (thus slowing down what you're trying to really do) while scrolling the home screen in icon grid mode. 4) The Preferences that are in the top slide-down panel's Wrench icon should presumably be merged with the Preferences App. 5) The shutdown dialog does not have a cancel or Back button. And, it often doesn't actually shutdown. All for now. Again, please remember that this is very early access. And don't let my nit-picking distract you from the fact that it's looking good for something that was merged only a few weeks ago! Ian Darwin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Whats up with the freerunner mass production?
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 4:04 PM, digger vermont <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 11:01 +0200, Michele Renda wrote: > > shhh... don't get up the child :) > > > > Let them to work in peace, our baby is becoming bigger :) > > It'd be fun to see a picture of them on the assembly line. Kinda like > an ultrasound :) > > digger > I prefer to know them working on shipping stuff :) -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Whats up with the freerunner mass production?
On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 11:01 +0200, Michele Renda wrote: > shhh... don't get up the child :) > > Let them to work in peace, our baby is becoming bigger :) It'd be fun to see a picture of them on the assembly line. Kinda like an ultrasound :) digger ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
picking up voicemail
There ought to be a specialization of Dialer to be able to type your voicemail password without having it echo, switchable dynamically. Just an idea - my son was complaining that his cheap Nokia didn't have such a feature, so I figured that OpenMoko should. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Europe Distribution
Hey everyone, I noticed on the wiki that there was some discussion about a distribution center in Europe to make it easier for people over here to purchase Neo phones (well, I'm sure I remember reading it somewhere, unless it was a very weird dream, but nevermind =S). If I am correct, it said that it was looked into but came over as too expensive? Or not viable for the company? I know its not very business or probably very professional, but I just wanted to offer the hand of my local Linux User group here in the UK. We've always looking for a project to help the Linux community, and I have been watching this one for a long time, and if I could help it would be a great achievement to my self. Not sure if its something that would be useful, as I know there is already the 10-pack thing. Just wanted to offer a helping hand if Openmoko want us to help ship orders across Europe from the web store instead of it being from the US, if this will cut costs? Probably a very stupid suggestion, as I know the phone side is more of business, but hey, worth the offer, no? =]. Thanks very much, Samuel Melrose [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPRS IP Networking
Hey, Since you're talking about tunnels, etc. I know it wasn't what you were originally hoping for, having to have a server (I'm guessing)... But as Tim says an SSH tunnel and the script checking would waste a lot of energy... I don't know if it is something that could be done, but I'm certainly going to try it when I get mine... Is openvpn. Not sure if this is any use at all, but it certainly (if you have somewhere you can set up a server) will do everything for you if its configured.. You'd just have to watch the data charge for the keep alive packets? But this way, its all encrypted, and well... Its not an external IP address, but you can certainly bridge it to another network, and all sorts. This would solve all the worry about the NAT pool or how they do their IP networking, as it would just make a connection, and from my experience with using it before if it is set up to do so, do what every it takes to keep that connection alive, and therefor, simple. Would just involve having tun/tap in the kernel, and cross-compiling openvpn to the platform. And from what I understand, openssl is already included? Please correct me if I am wrong, quite new to Openmoko, and not quite sure what actually comes packaged. Thanks and all the best, Samuel Melrose [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 19 May 2008, at 12:35, Tim wrote: Hi, I tried it two years ago with the german provider "base" (they had the first UMTS/GPRS flatrate). They gave my device some internal IP address. To get my device accessible from the internet I wrote a script that build an SSH tunnel (with port forwarding from server to mobile device) from the mobile device to my server on the "real" internet. Worked pretty well, but it's not really efficient that way. With that kind of TCP connection and a script checking if the tunnel is still valid you will waste a lot of energy. -tim Steven Kurylo schrieb: Does someone know how IP addresses are handed out on the cellular network? Do they give each phone an IP address, or do they do NAT? I want to know if I'll be able to connect to my freerunner over GPRS, say I wanted to ssh into it. I've been searching the internet and haven't found an answer. I connected to my website with my blackberry and saw different IP addresses for different requests; makes me think they have an outgoing NAT pool. Of course this could also be carrier dependent. Thanks. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPRS IP Networking
Hi, I tried it two years ago with the german provider "base" (they had the first UMTS/GPRS flatrate). They gave my device some internal IP address. To get my device accessible from the internet I wrote a script that build an SSH tunnel (with port forwarding from server to mobile device) from the mobile device to my server on the "real" internet. Worked pretty well, but it's not really efficient that way. With that kind of TCP connection and a script checking if the tunnel is still valid you will waste a lot of energy. -tim Steven Kurylo schrieb: Does someone know how IP addresses are handed out on the cellular network? Do they give each phone an IP address, or do they do NAT? I want to know if I'll be able to connect to my freerunner over GPRS, say I wanted to ssh into it. I've been searching the internet and haven't found an answer. I connected to my website with my blackberry and saw different IP addresses for different requests; makes me think they have an outgoing NAT pool. Of course this could also be carrier dependent. Thanks. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Whats up with the freerunner mass production?
2008/5/19, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > shhh... don't get up the child :) > > Let them to work in peace, our baby is becoming bigger :) > It is OK if they need more time, we have already been waiting for a couple of years, so we can wait for a couple of weeks more. We just want to hear the confirmation that they are still working on it. :P ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Whats up with the freerunner mass production?
I don't think they are implementing other features... it is a bit too late. I think they are testing what they already have. :) Tim Niemeyer wrote: Hallo Michele, * Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [19-05-08 11:01]: shhh... don't get up the child :) Let them to work in peace, our baby is becoming bigger :) Uhh... please not more features, a working phone is big enough at first! Tim Niemeyer ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Whats up with the freerunner mass production?
Hallo Michele, * Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [19-05-08 11:01]: > shhh... don't get up the child :) > > Let them to work in peace, our baby is becoming bigger :) Uhh... please not more features, a working phone is big enough at first! Tim Niemeyer signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Whats up with the freerunner mass production?
shhh... don't get up the child :) Let them to work in peace, our baby is becoming bigger :) Steffen Winkler wrote: Hey guys, A few days ago, Steve said that the mass production will start on May 16...now, we have May 19 and I haven't found any announcement/confirmation that they are producing...so whats up? Are they already producing the Freerunner? Steffen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Whats up with the freerunner mass production?
Hey guys, A few days ago, Steve said that the mass production will start on May 16...now, we have May 19 and I haven't found any announcement/confirmation that they are producing...so whats up? Are they already producing the Freerunner? Steffen -- Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will GTK be used in Openmoko?
On Mon, 19 May 2008 09:31:15 +0200 Piotr Duda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled: > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) belkocze: > [...] > > please READ THE EMAIL. suddenly the use of efl means "We are efl based". the > > non-use of shipepd gtk apps means "we dont support gtk" and so on are all > > bizarre views people hold and are espousing on these lists. they are not > > true. we use EFL for certain apps and uses. > > I do not know details about what this certain apps are, but one can assume > that these would be apps I called "main" (dialer, phonebook etc.)... If thats > not true please tell me, I dont think that was said clearly on this ML... if > it is true, then we can argue what means "based on" but I cant see any reason > to argue about that... ;-) > > it's good at certain things. > > like I said, Im not trying to judge this... > > > to keep > > supporting gtk and all other toolkits we have gone to effort to support it > > under X11. we still use X - all toolkits still work. > > Im very happy with that, even more that it seemed to me that some time ago it > was not supposed to be like that (I dont have time to dig ml archives to > recall if it was clearly stated by OM team, during gtk vs qt flamewar and its > totally unimportant now) > > > shachar *IS* asking for work. he's saying "use gtk! dont use efl! it doesnt > > support hebrew and arabic and farsi... bidi". that means WORK for US. we > > nave to re-implement from basics the things EFL then does for us already. > > I just said that I couldnt find where Shachar demands for support hebrew and > arabic and farsi from the OM team... Im not so close to OM development process > like you and dont know the status of the development when it was aimed on he's asking us to use gtk because then he can have his support - or most of it. from the school of "there can only be one widget set" of thought. ie we must use just gtk - no efl, or just qt. i am saying there are multiple, used for different things. they have overlap too. > gtk, so like many others in this community I can just assume something, for > example that a lot of work was put already there - and this could bring some > questions and some doubts and some disappointments (like Shachar's)... > also, i cant remember it was clearly announced (the move from gtk only to > efl and gtk and qt) its looks like it came to the surface itself, but still > one could feel surprised (like Michael Shiloh seemed to be ;-) no it was not announced. it was a management decision. :) > _I strongly believe that you know what you are doing, please dont assume that > you have to convince me to anything..._ > > Im not trying to continue this thread, Im not trying to start any flame wars > about one toolkit vs another... Im very sorry if it looked like this - it was > no my intention... :-) that's cool. i am just trying to explain why we do things. i could just sit silent and say nothing - you'd never know why, and all u'd get was software images :) i'm trying to open up a bit of the reasoning behind decisions. :) > peace... > Piotr > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will GTK be used in Openmoko?
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) belkocze: [...] please READ THE EMAIL. suddenly the use of efl means "We are efl based". the non-use of shipepd gtk apps means "we dont support gtk" and so on are all bizarre views people hold and are espousing on these lists. they are not true. we use EFL for certain apps and uses. I do not know details about what this certain apps are, but one can assume that these would be apps I called "main" (dialer, phonebook etc.)... If thats not true please tell me, I dont think that was said clearly on this ML... if it is true, then we can argue what means "based on" but I cant see any reason to argue about that... ;-) it's good at certain things. like I said, Im not trying to judge this... to keep supporting gtk and all other toolkits we have gone to effort to support it under X11. we still use X - all toolkits still work. Im very happy with that, even more that it seemed to me that some time ago it was not supposed to be like that (I dont have time to dig ml archives to recall if it was clearly stated by OM team, during gtk vs qt flamewar and its totally unimportant now) shachar *IS* asking for work. he's saying "use gtk! dont use efl! it doesnt support hebrew and arabic and farsi... bidi". that means WORK for US. we nave to re-implement from basics the things EFL then does for us already. I just said that I couldnt find where Shachar demands for support hebrew and arabic and farsi from the OM team... Im not so close to OM development process like you and dont know the status of the development when it was aimed on gtk, so like many others in this community I can just assume something, for example that a lot of work was put already there - and this could bring some questions and some doubts and some disappointments (like Shachar's)... also, i cant remember it was clearly announced (the move from gtk only to efl and gtk and qt) its looks like it came to the surface itself, but still one could feel surprised (like Michael Shiloh seemed to be ;-) _I strongly believe that you know what you are doing, please dont assume that you have to convince me to anything..._ Im not trying to continue this thread, Im not trying to start any flame wars about one toolkit vs another... Im very sorry if it looked like this - it was no my intention... :-) peace... Piotr ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko codebases with Linux Cross Reference (LXR)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Andy Green wrote: |> Somebody in the thread at some point said: |> | Greetings all, |> | |> | I wonder if it would be useful for devel purposes to have the OM |> | sourcetree imported into LXR (http://lxr.linux.no/) so folks can have an |> | quick method to access code via HTTP, which I have personally found to |> | be much quicker than trying to large trees of C, espically better than |> | learning code via $EDITOR/grep. |> | |> | Any comments..? Would only of the openmoko.org folks be willing to set |> | this up..? |> |> I use this a lot myself, Google random APIs or structs with keyword lxr |> appended. It's meant to be a bit of a beast to set up and run, but I |> think it would be great. |> |> Gismo is this insane to hope for? |> |> -Andy | | currently i would rather like to put that onto the 'todo when we have a | bit more time again' list. "Never", then :-) | also i think there are some important questions IF we do that: | | - which of our many source repos do we want in such a thing? There's only one "source repo" for kernel, git. It only makes sense to have stable branch I guess, since that is what most people will have on their device. | - how and when do they get updated/synced? Just do it once a day should be fine. My google method often gets me 2.6.17 and even that is OK for many things, like which include file is such and such struct defined in... grep is very noisy for popular struct names but lxr understands the definition action and lists it separately. | it seems that stuff needs a lot of perl, postgres as db and a few other | components, most important a search engine called 'xapian' i would like | to have the time understanding it before using it. | | besides that it seems atleast 'do-able' (even if i really do not like | perl code anymore ;)) I read it was ugly to set up, but CPAN is the man for the perl stuff. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkgxKHwACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoqegCfagdBtM0g3sUK+lOquXsESH5d 0R4AoI/5012mq+OqaxP1KyLXQaKsGm3D =G992 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPRS IP Networking
In my experience, the IP addresses are Nat pooled. But this is definatly carrier dependant. What they tend to do is to open a hole in the firewall and leave it open for 2-3 min without activity and then close it. So what I do is send keep alives (1 byte packets will do) every 90 seconds. This keeps the address and makes sure that they don't charge you for opening a new connection. Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld -Original Message- From: Brandon Kruse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 00:33:14 To:List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: GPRS IP Networking Either way, you could write a simple program on the phone to keep connecting to an end point (server) and give the server reverse access (stunnel) back to the device. Just what I'm thinking :) -- Brandon Kruse On May 18, 2008, at 8:22 PM, "Steven Kurylo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Does someone know how IP addresses are handed out on the cellular > network? Do they give each phone an IP address, or do they do NAT? I > want to know if I'll be able to connect to my freerunner over GPRS, > say I wanted to ssh into it. > > I've been searching the internet and haven't found an answer. I > connected to my website with my blackberry and saw different IP > addresses for different requests; makes me think they have an outgoing > NAT pool. Of course this could also be carrier dependent. > > Thanks. > > -- > Steven Kurylo > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
