date:20080616

Hello everyone,

Here is the status update of GSoC speech recognition project for open moko.
I have implemented some subroutines in C for the implementation of Hidden
Markov Model for speech processing. As ARM 32-bit processors do not have
inbuilt fixed point arithmetic, So all floating point calculations are
emulated in software. As a result the processing time is very high and
performance degrades dramatically specially for multi threaded applications.
So, I have written fixed point codes in which all calculations are handled
through fixed point. I have used the 16:16 notation for fixed point and used
32 bit integer to represent a fixed point. Multiplication and division
procedures for fixed point are implemented through macros. As the project
progresses, the stress will be given to optimize the codes
more.

Currently the coding phase of this project is going on and some
codes(without full compilation) have been released here:
https://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=146
(I couldn't use the svn because my public key is still not authorized).

An initial Design Document for this project has also been released and can
be found here:
https://projects.openmoko.org/docman/index.php?group_id=146selected_doc_group_id=145language_id=1

The coding phase will continue for some more time and after enough amount of
code is ready, I will start working on open moko tools and start building
test applications to get comfortable with it.

Any suggestions and comments will be highly appreciated.

The progress status is continuously updated here also:
http://saurabh1403.wordpress.com/

--
Saurabh Gupta
Electronics and Communication Engg.
NSIT,New Delhi
I blog here: http://saurabh1403.wordpress.com/ ,
http://saurabh1403-blog.blogspot.com
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Re: Anyone working on a cron port?

2008-06-16 Thread Peter J. Holzer

On 2008-06-16 11:35:22 +, Lalo Martins wrote:
 Also spracht Joerg Reisenweber (Sun, 15 Jun 2008 18:44:20 +0200):
  Am So  15. Juni 2008 schrieb arne anka:
  anacron
  
  see:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anacron #Drawbacks Also anacron doesn't
  address the rtcwake topic. We should plan for something more versatile
  that's merging cron(/anacron), at/batch, rtcwake, and the other
  powermanagement and wake-from-suspend reasons to make a nice cute
  task-scheduler
 
 Not *all* of those tools, but:
 
 lalo:~ gaze what fcron  19:31 ada
 fcron:

Yes, fcron is probably the best starting point (judging from the
features - I haven't looked at the code). Not only does it already do
many of the things we would want, the config files have an extensible
syntax - if we need some new option (e.g. for wake up for this job),
it can be added.

hp

-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer| It took a genius to create [TeX],
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR   | and it takes a genius to maintain it.
| |   | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | That's not engineering, that's art.
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |-- David Kastrup in comp.text.tex


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Re: bluetooth proximity

2008-06-16 Thread Alexey Feldgendler

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 12:24:27 +0200, W. B. Kranendonk  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I wondered, can two bluetooth devices ping each other and find out their  
 distance or relative speeds?

Not that I know of, but two cooperating Freerunners can exchange  
information about their GPS coordinates and measured acceleration.


-- 
Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com

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Re: Storage Idea?

2008-06-16 Thread David Samblas Martinez

well maybe gta4 will hava a sata interface but
This data is copy/pasted from vendor page
Power Consumption:
Spin-up 2.5
Seeking 1.4
Reading 1.4
Writing 1.4
Active Idle 0.55 
Low Power Idle 0.45
Standby 0.15
Sleep  0.10 

if this data is watts then at 3,3 volts 0,10/3,3 then 30,30 mA even when its in 
sleep mode so 1200mA/h the phone with almost anythig off, (gsm, 
wifi,screen,processor... all) will least at sleep mode no more than 40 h you 
may think not bad but this is very very far away from the Battery life 
(Approximation/Ideal Target) Standby time 150-200 Hrs in the wiki gta02 
description.
this is only in sleep mode. in working mode  1.4+2.5= 3.9W then 3.9/3,3=1182 mA 
so barely an hour working on battery at full charge and all off only hd working 
(forget about continuous use as swap, portable media player or any other 
intensive hd app ;), with the actual battery of course more powerful battery 
more time )

Another free estimation; if usb 2.0 seems to be 30MB/s at the most optimistic 
rate so 160 GBytes are about 160 * 1024/30=5461 seconds to be transfered out of 
the phone this about 1 hour and a half (1/2 hours more than battery duration 
without taking care about cpu/usb system power needs to do that operation. 
Here you can argue against justifing that is it's usb wired it can be also 
powered, but I will still think  that is to much power consuption for a 
portable device,and 160 gigs is a lt of disk space aprox 420 chapters of 
mythbusters(more than twelve days continuous sesion)

I think there will be more efficient power solutions to give future versions of 
OM phones a a lot of space  , only thinking loud and with no experience at all 
only basic phisics maths applied 


I really thing is too much power comsuption for a movile solution but only 
guessing I'm not a hardware guy 

,
--- El lun, 16/6/08, Samuel Melrose [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:

 De: Samuel Melrose [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Asunto: Storage Idea?
 Para: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org
 Fecha: lunes, 16 junio, 2008 11:57
 Hey,
 Was just looking through some pages, examining my iPod
 hardware, and I  
 can across something interesting, the thing that powers the
 storage  
 for the big, all powerful high storage devices. Well,
 atleast its  
 ability to store 160GB...
 Not sure if anyone here already knows about this, but just
 thought it  
 might be an interesting addition to one of the OpenMoko
 phones,  
 although when it forks into several edditions as it looks
 quite  
 expensive.
 
 But anyway, getting to it... The Toshiba 1.8 hard
 drive.
 Very small, MicroSATA interface up to ~600Mbps... And up to
 160GB  
 storage.
 Not sure if anyone would want that much storage for their
 phone, but  
 I'm sure it might come in handy atleast for developers?
 Although I  
 know MicroSD is up to about 32GB now and a lot cheaper...
 
 Will leave the link anyway, hope it comes in useful...
 http://www.toshibastorage.com/main.aspx?Path=StorageSolutions/1.8-inchHardDiskDrives
 
 Thank you,
 Samuel Melrose
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
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Re: bluetooth proximity

2008-06-16 Thread Tilman Baumann

W. B. Kranendonk wrote:
 Hi List,
 
 I wondered, can two bluetooth devices ping each other and find out their 
 distance or relative speeds?

Very unlikely.
But some bluetooth devices can tell you the signal level of any peer. 
With that, you could aproximate the distance.
Would be interesting if our device can do this.


 Not in the first place as some security tag to unlock my PC or house, but to 
 use in a game-like setting. 

The first option would at least work in any case. One could make hint 
location based subsystem by detecting certain stationary bluetooth devices.
Deamons that trigger events when a bloetooth device comes in range have 
already been implemented.

-- 
Drucken Sie diese Mail bitte nur auf Recyclingpapier aus.
Please print this mail only on recycled paper.

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Re: bluetooth proximity

2008-06-16 Thread AVee

On Monday 16 June 2008 14:40, David Kepplinger wrote:
 Hi,
 I don't think that's feasible. To measure (with 2 devices) you need
 two very synchronous clocks and a very exact measurement. Because the
 signal travels with approximately the speed of light (about 300.000
 km/s), an error of 1µs is an error of 300m. There are a lot of reasons
 why this is not feasible. Sorry.

I tend to agree, however, things might change if you add gps. You'd might just 
transmit your own speed and location, although you will probably hate the 
precision of that without DGPS (which may never work on the Freerunner) and 
if may not work al that well indoors. 
But GPS could also solve the first problem you mentioned, it can provide the 
same clock to the two device. That leaves only the 'exact measurement' to be 
solved.

It might work, but the precision will probably still be far to low to be 
useable for anything.

AVee

-- 
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
  -- Albert Einstein

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Re: delay in recieving mails

2008-06-16 Thread Bastian Muck

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
 
I subscribed the mailinglist sometimes around summer last year. But 
sometimes i see my own mails hours (I don't know how many) after sending 
them. My poll-intervall is 10 minutes i think.

Greetings Bastian
Peter J. Holzer schrieb:
| On 2008-06-15 23:26:56 +0200, arne anka wrote:
| i get every mail more or less 2h after it is sent (polling the 
account ist  
| set to 15min), though the archive  
| (http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-June/date.html)  
| displays them much earlier.
|
| Looks like most of the people with long delays (me too, btw) subscribed
| only recently.
|
| There are 1651 non-digested addresses subscribed to the list. I don't
| know the setup of the mail server, but if it tries to deliver to these
| addresses serially it is quite likely that it takes 2 hours to go through
| the whole list, especially if some of them are unreachable.
|
| So maybe the postmaster should do some tweaking.
|
| hp
|
|
| -
|
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iD8DBQFIVoTzlYiDScJJ+7QRAjGyAKD8RNfE5Bhvq7lSZEY8GY9xYvkHUQCgmSlI
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RE: When it will be possible to buy OpenMoko?

2008-06-16 Thread Crane, Matthew

There was a post on engadget mobile that suggested some have been
released.  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Powell
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:26 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: When it will be possible to buy OpenMoko?

On Sunday 15 June 2008 00:03, steve wrote:
 I'm not exactly sure.  I havent asked if they have a continous process
or
 if they build a bunch of PCB and then assemble. Like, build a
thousand,
 assemble a thousand, etc. I know some shipments (university customers)
have
 already landed.

Could you explain what you meant by that last sentence?

-- 

Andy / ScaredyCat

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Re: Why not use votation system?

Michele Renda wrote:
   
  Could we  weight votes by  code committed. No code. No vote.

   
 
I have a far better idea.

Why don't we kill this frickin thread and ban anyone from the mailing 
list for ever bringing this up?

Do we have to suffer noobs forever on really retarded topics?

I'd rather spend my time helping noobs out when moko starts to get 
traction than rehashing really dumb questions like this.

Rob


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Re: moko running everything as root

Francesco Albanese wrote:
 As I already pointed out, re-establishing the correct privilege
 isolation is a fundamental step to enforce security, even though the
 phone will have only 1 user. In the future we should have a few root
 process, dedicated accounts for daemons and a X session belonging to
 the user. IMHO it could be a good idea to suppress root account and to
 take full advantage of PAM+SUDO facility.

 F.A.
   
100% agreed.

The moko isn't a phone ... it's a smart phone. 

This needs to be done right from the start if possible.

Rob



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Re: bluetooth proximity

2008-06-16 Thread Peter Nijs

One can also measure the signal strength. I don't know how accurate that is. 
KDE has a tool that locks the desktop if you (and your bluetooth phone 
ofcourse)  are to far away.

Peter

Op Monday 16 June 2008 15:59:45 schreef Alexey Feldgendler:
 On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 12:24:27 +0200, W. B. Kranendonk

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I wondered, can two bluetooth devices ping each other and find out their
  distance or relative speeds?

 Not that I know of, but two cooperating Freerunners can exchange
 information about their GPS coordinates and measured acceleration.




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Re: moko running everything as root

Kevin Dean wrote:

 the om represents a device more powerfull than the computer linux was
 developed on.

 i am not sure i understand you correctly, but for me it sounds like you
 saying user/group separation is meaningfull for servers only (and only
 because physical access can be prevented), for end user computers, laptops
 specifically, it is a waste.
 if so, you are pretty much alone with this understanding.

 what bothers me: as far as i understand the vast majority of applications
 is ported from existing linux distributions or just recompiled -- so, why
 would one disable the user/group principle the apps obey on their native
 platform?
 ubuntu for one works rather well with that wheel/sudo way and even on
 non-ubuntu systems users are able to run a lot of root applications such
 as rdate, power off, opkg, etc. w/o beeing root all the time.

 ___
 
I agree with this.

The power of Linux is that we have NEVER developed a culture of bad 
habits like in Windows world.

Their EXACT problem is they trained their users to be lazy and stupid.

Linux users are FORCED to learn about security even at a bare minimum 
level and thus develop very good habits.

Thus, no matter what MS now tries, they are stuck dealing with an BADLY 
trained population while even with the success of things like Ubuntu you 
have noobs basically learning NOT to run as root.

It's about culture not EASE OF USE.

Rob

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Re: moko running everything as root

Kevin Dean wrote:
 I understand how and why permission seperations exist. :) What I'm
 saying is that if we sit back and evaluate how this device is going to
 be used in the vast majority of cases, you'll realize that unlike a
 desktop or server system, the data that a non-root user can delete is
 as bad, or perhaps even WORSE than destroying the system integrity
 itself.
   
Famous last words buddy boy.

C'mon people, do you not realize that the moko carries more processing 
power than most desktop computers up to what, 1997?

Are you seriously thinking that the Windows 98 way of thinking with THAT 
MUCH power is sensible?

Is everyone this delusional?

C'mon people, in the age where people are loosing laptops with gigs of 
sensitive data, WE NEED MORE security measures not less.

We need proper linux security implemention, we need encrypted home 
direrctories and who knows what else we will have to get working.

Certainly we have already talked about the idea of a blackberry style 
proxy server, a policies framework (i'd like to see this via actually 
running kde4 on this device but thats a topic for another cpu), lockdown 
and talkbalk mechanism, etc.

The problem here isn't WHAT YOU want the device to be.  The problem here 
is WHAT WE ALL want the device to be.

Please remember that when they hardware becomes powerful enough, the 
essential difference in utility then falls on software.  If you want a 
phone only, you should be able to get a software profile that gets you 
that.  If you want a laptop in a pocket you should be able to get a 
profile for that.

The solution to the problem effectively is profiles via a 
centralized/decentralized policies framework.  Those that want a phone 
and everything running as root should be FORCED to make that decision 
manually so that when things go wrong THEY GET BLAMED and not the 
community.  For the rest of us, we will enjoy feature creep and an ever 
greater ability to do on the cel what we  normally do on the laptop. 

In the mean time I'm just glad to get an open device, our exposer is 
minimal in this run.   I just hope this changes down the road as no 
technical reasons seem to be popping up to justify this.

Rob



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Re: moko running everything as root

Kevin Dean wrote:

 In the mobile world, there is NOTHING more important than the user's
 data. Nothing. And in the mobile world, you can impliment root priv
 seperations till the cows come home, but it doesn't eliminate the fact
 that the most vulnerable part of the system is being put at risk
 still.


   
This is nonsense.

Encrypt the data and have it backed up via policy/service/etc.

You cannot separate security from a device this powerful.  Hell you 
cannot separate security from even crappy devices.  Hell we now live in 
an age where frickin printers come with full webservers with 
ssh/ftp/telnet and are now a security risk as much as any desktop.

Despite the common belief, PHYSICAL access to a device DOES NOT 
GUARANTEE physical access to data.

A good enough key with a proper authentication scheme will keep the 
frickin NSA busy for 10's of thousands of years.

Let's not kid our selves.  Security is of the utmost importance 
ESPECIALLY IN A WIRELESS WORLD.

If you think Bluejacking was nothing, just wait until you start owning 
these puppies during a walk by - hell, I have plans for making a 
carrying bag with a full spectrume of equipment and antennas that does 
nothing BUT sniff out wireless devices in an attempt to own them just 
for fun.

How long do you think an root priviledged device like this would last 
under such circumstances?

The world is getting MORE HAZARDOUS not less, with the full power of 
laptops only 10 years old or less in our pockets how can anyone think 
this is not a serious consideration?

Rob

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Re: When it will be possible to buy OpenMoko?

2008-06-16 Thread Andy Selby

 There was a post on engadget mobile that suggested some have been
 released.

I cant find it, you got a link?

 On Sunday 15 June 2008 00:03, steve wrote:
 I'm not exactly sure.  I havent asked if they have a continous process or
 if they build a bunch of PCB and then assemble. Like, build a thousand,
 assemble a thousand, etc. I know some shipments (university customers) have
 already landed.

 Could you explain what you meant by that last sentence?

In the neofreerunner thread on the device owners list a guy from china
explains that he bought one for  a university project, there are pics
of it as well.

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Re: moko running everything as root

Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
 If you have root AND user, root can make a backup copy of user's valuable 
 data 
 every once in a while, and user or the virus she imported while browsing the 
 web can NOT destroy this backup.
 I can't follow your arguments. It's NOT an evil person we need to fence in, 
 it's bad behaviour of applications that go nuts on (virus|bug|user fault|*)

 If we don't start to care about this topic NOW, we will see lots of poor 
 designed apps that rely on having root access where they shouldn't, and we 
 end up in a situation like M$, where the whole system is so much root-centric 
 that you simply can't switch to a sane user-management anymore, because it 
 would break half the system. To fix those apps later is a major PITA.

 I just talked to Wolfgang Spraul and he answered
 But right now we are selling to hardcore developers only, so it's not  
 our #1 priority.
 Once our software becomes more stable and mature, this needs to be  
 addressed seriously. The good news is that the FOSS community is  
 pretty paranoid about this, so I'm sure over time we will have a good  
 solution.
 It's a FOSS project and you are the community, so just contribute! I'd say, 
 do it *now*, as long as it's easy.

 cheers
 jOERG
   
Hear hear.

I would be willing to sacrifice any future features in favour of working 
on this first.

As I think about the implications of this more and more its clear:

Linux wins the security war not because of technology BUT BECAUSE OF OUR 
CULTURE.

It is the culture of our users that makes us safer.  Hell, even Ubuntu 
is able to get noobs to follow the simplest security measures such as 
not running as root, surely we can do the same.

I say let's learn from the mistake of M$ and lets out think then because 
we sure as hell aren't going to outcompete them.

Rob

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Re: Why not use votation system?

2008-06-16 Thread Federico Lorenzi

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Robert Taylor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Do we have to suffer noobs forever on really retarded topics?

Do not feed the tro^H^H^Hnoobs perhaps?

Cheers,
Federico

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Re: Why not use votation system?

2008-06-16 Thread Federico Lorenzi

Funny enough I got an email from a friend of mine, her signature seems
really appropriate here:

Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that
counts can be counted.
Albert Einstein

While person x may not have committed anything, he may have been in
the IRC channel helping people, or person y could have done a huge
effort in cleaning up the wiki.

Cheers,
Federico

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 1:15 AM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I havent thought out the details, but essentially I would like a system
 where I could be more attentive
 To the people making big contributions, without ignoring those who have yet
 to make one. Tough balance.


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Samblas
 Martinez
 Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 3:14 PM
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 Subject: RE: Why not use votation system?

 good one, code committed to main stream distro? or bash code ? python script
 included in that offer?


 --- El dom, 15/6/08, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:

 De: steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Asunto: RE: Why not use votation system?
 Para: 'List for Openmoko community discussion'
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 Fecha: domingo, 15 junio, 2008 9:18
 Could we  weight votes by  code committed. No code. No vote.






 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michele
 Renda
 Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 1:25 AM
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 Subject: Re: Why not use votation system?

 Hi Steve

 I think I was a bit mis-understood.

 I didn't told that all the decisions must to be took with a votation
 system!
 If we would do so I think we will not have a phone, but a microwave.

 My idea was only: when Openmoko has to take a decision between two
 equivalent solution and WANT to know the opinions of the comunity to
 use a votation system. But only for opinion asked by OM, like it was
 for the audio jacket.

 And in every case must to be clear that also if the votation say
 choose A
 the final decision must to be tooken by OM, because you must to invest
 on it.

 I hope I clarified something :)

 steve wrote:
  The complexity of the decision is deeper than that.
 
  It involves cost, engineering budget, schedule, price,
 return on
  investment, parts availability.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Brad
  Midgley
  Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 12:12 PM
  To: List for Openmoko community discussion
  Subject: Re: Why not use votation system?
 
  Michele
 
 
  Do you want feature X or feature Y?
 
 
  you might need a table representing the cost and
 business feasibility
  of each feature. We've seen a lot more
 transparency on the 3g decision
  recently which reveals it to be more complicated than
 people thought.
 
  --
  Brad
 
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Re: bluetooth proximity

2008-06-16 Thread Tilman Baumann

AVee wrote:
 On Monday 16 June 2008 14:40, David Kepplinger wrote:
 Hi,
 I don't think that's feasible. To measure (with 2 devices) you need
 two very synchronous clocks and a very exact measurement. Because the
 signal travels with approximately the speed of light (about 300.000
 km/s), an error of 1µs is an error of 300m. There are a lot of reasons
 why this is not feasible. Sorry.
 
 I tend to agree, however, things might change if you add gps. You'd might 
 just 
 transmit your own speed and location, although you will probably hate the 
 precision of that without DGPS (which may never work on the Freerunner) and 
 if may not work al that well indoors. 
 But GPS could also solve the first problem you mentioned, it can provide the 
 same clock to the two device. That leaves only the 'exact measurement' to be 
 solved.
 
 It might work, but the precision will probably still be far to low to be 
 useable for anything.

I don't think so. What you get is effectively something like DGPS. Both 
receivers (while being near each other) receive the same skew/offset.
Both will have wrong readings for the absolute position. But the 
relative position should be extremely high. (As high as DGPS can get)

At least in theory.
DGPS works just this way with the difference that with DGPS one receiver 
is stationary and propagates a correction signal to all receivers nearby.

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Re: Why not use votation system?

2008-06-16 Thread Ilja O.

Openmoko has already embedded voting system.
Named If you want it -- write it
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Re: When it will be possible to buy OpenMoko?

2008-06-16 Thread ian douglas

Andy Selby wrote:
 There was a post on engadget mobile that suggested some have been
 released.
 
 I cant find it, you got a link?


Steve mentioned this in an Email the other day:
  I know some shipments (university customers) have already landed.

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Re: speech - text on FR?

Hello Ajit,

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 4:37 AM, Ajit Natarajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello,

 I know nothing about speech recognition, so if the following won't work,
 please let me know (gently :) ).

 I understand that there is a project called Sphinx in CMU which attempts
 speech recognition.  It seems pretty complex.  I couldn't get it to work
 on my Linux desktop.  I'm not sure if it would work on an FR since it
 may need a lot of CPU horsepower and memory.


Indeed the sphinx packages are very well written but they were compiled with
the aim of desktop processors. With a lot of data management and large
storage, it implements a lot floating point calculations and algorithms. On
FR like devices, codes has to be properly adopted and modified. In fact this
is the very aim of the GSoC Speech Recognition Project to prepare a speech
recognition engine which can run on a processor with 256 or maximum 400MHz
without floating point hardware.



 I see a speech project on the OM projects page.  To me, it seems like
 the project is attempting command recognition, e.g., voice dialing.
 However, it would be great if the FR can function as a rudimentary
 dictation machine, i.e., allow the user to speak and convert to text.


yes, once the speech recognition engine is ready then a lot of applications
can be built on it. The basic aim of speech recognition will be to identify
the work spoken by comparing it with the HMM models of the stored words
dictionary and calculating the maximum probability. Once a word has been
detected, any API can be called corresponding to that word.


 Perhaps the following may work.

 1. Ask the user to speak some standard words.  Record the speech and
establish the mapping from the words to the corresponding speech.
It may even be good to maintain separate databases for different
purposes, e.g., one for UNIX command lines, one for emails, and a
third for technical documents.

 2. The speech recognizer then functions similar to a keyboard in that it
converts speech to text which it then enters into the application
that has focus.

 3. The user must speak word by word.  The speech recognizer finds the
closest match for the speech my checking against the recordings made
in step 1 (and step 4).  The user may need to set the database from
which the match must be made.

 4. If there is no close match, or if the user is unhappy with the
selection made in step 3, the user can type in the correct word.  A
new record can be added to the appropriate database.

 The process may be frustrating for the user at first, but over time, the
 speech recognition should become better and better.

 The separate databases may be needed, for example, because the word
 period should usually translate to the symbol `.' except when writing
 about time periods when it should translate to the word `period'.

 I do not know what the storage requirements would be to maintain this
 database.  I do not know if the closest match algorithm in step 3 is
 even possible.  But if we could get a good dictation engine, that would
 be a killer app, in my opinion.  No more typing!  No more carpal tunnel
 injuries.  No more having to worry about small on screen keyboards that
 challenge finger typing.


It would be certainly a great application. But at the moment I am not very
sure about the capability of free runner and the applications which it can
handle. May be in future more and more betterment can be introduced in the
current applications:)



 Thanks.

 Ajit

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Maxima port

2008-06-16 Thread Milos Mandaric

Hi list,

Would it be possible to run maxima on openmoko? 

Milos


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Re: moko running everything as root

2008-06-16 Thread ramsesoriginal

I don't read through the whole thread (i'm short on time, sorry), but
having users would be part of a good security in depth structure. You
talk about compromittingdata, but never thing ofotehr thinks. For
example: i have acess for some seconds  to the phone. runnign as root,
i change the dns to point to evil.com, which simply mirrors anotehr
dns, with the little addition that bank.com goes to
evil-phishing-copy-of-my-bank.com, and nowing the phone's owner, i
probably know his bank. Other use case: i go to starbucks, someone
accesses my phone, and opens a simple  two-way ssh tunnel to evil.com.
Then, when the moko islogged in the fortune-500 company this guy works
for, the bad guy logs in through this ssh-tunnel (going through gprs),
and is behind the firewalls, ids, etc, all undetected. You want more
use cases?

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Robert Taylor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
 If you have root AND user, root can make a backup copy of user's valuable 
 data
 every once in a while, and user or the virus she imported while browsing the
 web can NOT destroy this backup.
 I can't follow your arguments. It's NOT an evil person we need to fence in,
 it's bad behaviour of applications that go nuts on (virus|bug|user fault|*)

 If we don't start to care about this topic NOW, we will see lots of poor
 designed apps that rely on having root access where they shouldn't, and we
 end up in a situation like M$, where the whole system is so much root-centric
 that you simply can't switch to a sane user-management anymore, because it
 would break half the system. To fix those apps later is a major PITA.

 I just talked to Wolfgang Spraul and he answered
 But right now we are selling to hardcore developers only, so it's not
 our #1 priority.
 Once our software becomes more stable and mature, this needs to be
 addressed seriously. The good news is that the FOSS community is
 pretty paranoid about this, so I'm sure over time we will have a good
 solution.
 It's a FOSS project and you are the community, so just contribute! I'd say,
 do it *now*, as long as it's easy.

 cheers
 jOERG

 Hear hear.

 I would be willing to sacrifice any future features in favour of working
 on this first.

 As I think about the implications of this more and more its clear:

 Linux wins the security war not because of technology BUT BECAUSE OF OUR
 CULTURE.

 It is the culture of our users that makes us safer.  Hell, even Ubuntu
 is able to get noobs to follow the simplest security measures such as
 not running as root, surely we can do the same.

 I say let's learn from the mistake of M$ and lets out think then because
 we sure as hell aren't going to outcompete them.

 Rob

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Re: speech - text on FR?

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 6:04 AM, Dan Staley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I actually just interfaced with the Sphinx project at one of the
 research positions I hold.  It is actually a very well written interface
 (for the most part...there were a few things poorly documented and/or
 implemented) But anyway, I found the java version of the project (Sphinx
 4 http://cmusphinx.sourceforge.net/sphinx4/ ) to be pretty easy to
 build/interface with.


Its great Dan that u got sphinx packages worked for you. I tried it but got
some error. However now a days i was concentrating on understanding their
some libraries and trying to write my own optimized codes. I will definitely
ping you in case of any help.



 The benefit of using the HMMs and models and methods that Sphinx
 implements is that anyone in their programs should be able to specify a
 grammar (similar to a simplified regex) that they want to be recognized
 and then the interpreter should be able to be user independant...meaning
 anyone can speak the phrase into the phone and get the desired output.
 Speech training wouldn't be required.  I found that once you set it up
 correctly, the Sphinx engine is very powerful, and usually identifies
 the spoken words no matter who says them (we found it even seemed to
 work decently well with a variety different accents).


This is good and in fact I will also try to implement this in the model. I
will get the HMM models of words by training them from different speakers.
This thing i have covered in my Design Document.

Thanks in advance...


 -Dan Staley

 On Sun, 2008-06-15 at 19:07 -0400, Ajit Natarajan wrote:
  Hello,
 
  I know nothing about speech recognition, so if the following won't work,
  please let me know (gently :) ).
 
  I understand that there is a project called Sphinx in CMU which attempts
  speech recognition.  It seems pretty complex.  I couldn't get it to work
  on my Linux desktop.  I'm not sure if it would work on an FR since it
  may need a lot of CPU horsepower and memory.
 
  I see a speech project on the OM projects page.  To me, it seems like
  the project is attempting command recognition, e.g., voice dialing.
  However, it would be great if the FR can function as a rudimentary
  dictation machine, i.e., allow the user to speak and convert to text.
 
  Perhaps the following may work.
 
  1. Ask the user to speak some standard words.  Record the speech and
  establish the mapping from the words to the corresponding speech.
  It may even be good to maintain separate databases for different
  purposes, e.g., one for UNIX command lines, one for emails, and a
  third for technical documents.
 
  2. The speech recognizer then functions similar to a keyboard in that it
  converts speech to text which it then enters into the application
  that has focus.
 
  3. The user must speak word by word.  The speech recognizer finds the
  closest match for the speech my checking against the recordings made
  in step 1 (and step 4).  The user may need to set the database from
  which the match must be made.
 
  4. If there is no close match, or if the user is unhappy with the
  selection made in step 3, the user can type in the correct word.  A
  new record can be added to the appropriate database.
 
  The process may be frustrating for the user at first, but over time, the
  speech recognition should become better and better.
 
  The separate databases may be needed, for example, because the word
  period should usually translate to the symbol `.' except when writing
  about time periods when it should translate to the word `period'.
 
  I do not know what the storage requirements would be to maintain this
  database.  I do not know if the closest match algorithm in step 3 is
  even possible.  But if we could get a good dictation engine, that would
  be a killer app, in my opinion.  No more typing!  No more carpal tunnel
  injuries.  No more having to worry about small on screen keyboards that
  challenge finger typing.
 
  Thanks.
 
  Ajit
 
 


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NSIT,New Delhi
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Re: moko running everything as root

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 12:23 PM, Robert Taylor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Kevin Dean wrote:

 In the mobile world, there is NOTHING more important than the user's
 data. Nothing. And in the mobile world, you can impliment root priv
 seperations till the cows come home, but it doesn't eliminate the fact
 that the most vulnerable part of the system is being put at risk
 still.



 This is nonsense.

You dispute that the user data is the most important part of the
mobile device experience?


 Encrypt the data and have it backed up via policy/service/etc.

My previous e-mail has been clear - I WANT security on the device.
However, I simply don't beleive that the root/user seperation is the
most important consideration in that regard. You tossed out some great
security ideas, onces I'd personally put time into doing on my own
device, but with all due respect, you're saying my statements are
nonsense and then offering solutions that (while they work) aren't
what I was saying. Protecting user data is key so encryption and a
built-in, fully automated backup system is somethign I think would be
a GREAT thing to have. But it doesn't refute my point at all - a
non-root user can destroy the most critical part of the system and
doesn't need root to do it. Implimenting a root/user seperation itself
doesn't mitigate this risk. I agree that this risk needs to be
mitigated, I simply don't believe that the root/user split does much
to lessen the risks.


 You cannot separate security from a device this powerful.  Hell you
 cannot separate security from even crappy devices.  Hell we now live in
 an age where frickin printers come with full webservers with
 ssh/ftp/telnet and are now a security risk as much as any desktop.

 Despite the common belief, PHYSICAL access to a device DOES NOT
 GUARANTEE physical access to data.

That's correct if the data is encrypted but encryption isn't what's
being tossed around here. If all your data is stored in the clear, and
an intruder has physical access to the device, the distinctions
between root and non-root user don't matter. That's what I'm saying.


 A good enough key with a proper authentication scheme will keep the
 frickin NSA busy for 10's of thousands of years.

 Let's not kid our selves.  Security is of the utmost importance
 ESPECIALLY IN A WIRELESS WORLD.

I agree.


 If you think Bluejacking was nothing, just wait until you start owning
 these puppies during a walk by - hell, I have plans for making a
 carrying bag with a full spectrume of equipment and antennas that does
 nothing BUT sniff out wireless devices in an attempt to own them just
 for fun.

 How long do you think an root priviledged device like this would last
 under such circumstances?

 The world is getting MORE HAZARDOUS not less, with the full power of
 laptops only 10 years old or less in our pockets how can anyone think
 this is not a serious consideration?

 Rob

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Re: OEM market,any thoughts about that??

2008-06-16 Thread Al Johnson

On Sunday 15 June 2008, Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
 Am Sa  14. Juni 2008 schrieb steve:
  A big percentage of requests I get are for this, however, they always
  want some hardware twist.

 They don't exactly know our hw, I guess (e.g it's not commonly known we
 have a low-voltage-RS232, I2C, and separate power feed on internal
 debug-con / testpoints). Also some mods on hw are quite easy to accomplish,
 either for us or for them.
 I suggest, you forward their requests to me, and I'll have a look at it and
 see what's feasible EE-side with reasonable effort/cost.
 Would be a pity to send them away, just because we didn't check what we can
 do for them, no?

 cheers
 jOERG

Is there any documentation available for these interfaces? They may be a good 
alternative to USB for adding extra buttons, sensors or whatever in 
alternative cases.

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Re: GSoC Project status update 2: Speech Recognition in Open Moko

2008-06-16 Thread Erland Lewin

Hello Saurabh,

2008/6/16 saurabh gupta [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 So, I have written fixed point codes in which all calculations are handled
 through fixed point. I have used the 16:16 notation for fixed point and used
 32 bit integer to represent a fixed point.


FWIW, when I wrote an embedded speech recognition engine, I used 16 bits for
most of the data in the models etc. If you could manage to store values in
16 bits rather than 32, then I your memory requirements could be halved, and
probably performance increase significantly, since the cpu to memory
bandwidth would be lower, and I think that might be a performance
bottleneck. However, it required careful tracking of what range of values
were actually required in various stages of the algorithm.

Multiplication and division procedures for fixed point are implemented
 through macros. As the project progresses, the stress will be given to
 optimize the codes
 more.


I hope you won't have to do much if any division because division is quite
slow. If there are variables you need to divide by, try storing 1/x instead
of x, and then doing multiplication instead of division if you can manage
that.

Good luck,

Erland
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Re: When it will be possible to buy OpenMoko?

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Andy Selby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 There was a post on engadget mobile that suggested some have been
 released.

 I cant find it, you got a link?

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/06/11/openmoko-freerunner-gets-reviewed-early/

I didn't get this as part of a university release though.

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My blog: Photo Tour Of The ASU

Hi everyone. Over the weekend I took perhaps 50 or so screenshots of
the ASU on a Freerunner. A lot of them are repetitive, simply showing
all of the options on a given application. But others are
interesting and show some new or under-reviewed applications.

I've taken those best of images and put them together in a blog
post. That post can be read at
http://monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/Photo-Tour-of-the-ASU.html.

I hope people enjoy!

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Re: GSoC Project status update 2: Speech Recognition in Open Moko

hi Erland,

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 2:04 AM, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello Saurabh,

 2008/6/16 saurabh gupta [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 So, I have written fixed point codes in which all calculations are handled
 through fixed point. I have used the 16:16 notation for fixed point and used
 32 bit integer to represent a fixed point.


 FWIW, when I wrote an embedded speech recognition engine, I used 16 bits
 for most of the data in the models etc. If you could manage to store values
 in 16 bits rather than 32, then I your memory requirements could be halved,
 and probably performance increase significantly, since the cpu to memory
 bandwidth would be lower, and I think that might be a performance
 bottleneck. However, it required careful tracking of what range of values
 were actually required in various stages of the algorithm.


This was the point where I thought this way. Please correct me if I am
wrong. Since the word length of ARM processor of FR is 32bit, I chose 32 bit
size for the fixed point notation. In using 32 bit fixed point notation, my
range of both integer and fraction part also increases.




 Multiplication and division procedures for fixed point are implemented
 through macros. As the project progresses, the stress will be given to
 optimize the codes
 more.


 I hope you won't have to do much if any division because division is quite
 slow. If there are variables you need to divide by, try storing 1/x instead
 of x, and then doing multiplication instead of division if you can manage
 that.


I did do that whenever I had to divide by the constant numbers. But at some
points, the situation happens to perform the division by run time variables
and so, I had to implement the fixed point division too.



 Good luck,

 Erland



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Re: My blog: Photo Tour Of The ASU

2008-06-16 Thread Charles Edward Pax

Thanks for the post. I love screenshots.

-Charles

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi everyone. Over the weekend I took perhaps 50 or so screenshots of
 the ASU on a Freerunner. A lot of them are repetitive, simply showing
 all of the options on a given application. But others are
 interesting and show some new or under-reviewed applications.

 I've taken those best of images and put them together in a blog
 post. That post can be read at

 http://monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/Photo-Tour-of-the-ASU.html
 .

 I hope people enjoy!

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GSoC projects

2008-06-16 Thread ramsesoriginal

Hi there.
Reading through the GSoC updates, i saw that (atl least) two used
Markov Model . I have no idea what that is, or how it's used, i just
wanted to ask if it's the same functionality? Because ifyes, joining
the forces and implementing a Markov Model Demon, which offers its
services through dbus, or a simple library,  would be cool, os that we
avoid code duplication.

Just my 2 cents.

-- 
Rodney Dangerfield  - I haven't spoken to my wife in years. I didn't
want to interrupt her.

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Re: My blog: Photo Tour Of The ASU