Re: data collection for GSM coverage mape is COOL idea

[Michael Shiloh]

Great idea

+1

Fabian Off wrote:
> Hey, 
> maybe then we should create something like a plugin (or extension) for 
> openstreetmaps, so we can append many kinds of meta-data (such as radar 
> positions, gsm coverage, whatsoever) to existing maps... kinda points of 
> interest (?) :)
> 
> 
> I think this would address a lot of people... all who are using osm by now...
> 
> Fabian Off
> - Ursprüngliche Mail 
> Von: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> An: List for Openmoko community discussion 
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, den 25. Juni 2008, 18:34:50 Uhr
> Betreff: Re: data collection for GSM coverage mape is COOL idea
> 
> Le mercredi 25 juin 2008 à 17:42, vous avez écrit :
> 
>> I like thw "GSM coverage map" idea, a LOT!
>> -- ron k jeffries
> 
> +1
> I'like all ideas about statistics gatherage (maps, radas, ...)
> 
> 

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Re: No WLAN AP functionality

[Esben Stien]

Mikko Rauhala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Sadly no, as it's a hardmac chip and the proprietary firmware lacks
> this feature.

Oh, no. That's really damn sad. 

-- 
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Re: Ordering Free-for-all?

[Sean Moss-Pultz]

On 6/29/08 Mischa Beitz wrote:
> Can I place an order from Shanghai? I mean, it seems ridiculous that
> I'd have to get it from the US (major round trip across the Pacific
> for no reason).

We should be able to ship from Taiwan. Harry can we? Do have any left?

   -Sean

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Re: Ordering Free-for-all?

[Mischa Beitz]

Can I place an order from Shanghai? I mean, it seems ridiculous that
I'd have to get it from the US (major round trip across the Pacific
for no reason).

thanks,

mischa

On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 4:45 AM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The units are already shippin to EU. So see your disty there.
>
> The units for the US are on the docks,  The USA office is closed 2,3,4 july
>
> So first ship USA ( assuming no problems in customs) is week of 7 july.
>
> Announcement will go out
>
>
> The web shop at openmoko.com will OPEN when products land in the US and are
> ready to ship.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Horton
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 12:34 PM
> To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion'
> Subject: RE: Ordering Free-for-all?
>
> ...And with the delays on the list the email will arrive about the time it
> sells out. :)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven **
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 10:54 AM
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Subject: Re: Ordering Free-for-all?
>
> And note that those will have zero impact on your chance of getting a Neo.
>
> Essentially, if you want a Neo, make sure you check your email often.
> I'm assuming the announcement will go to the announcement list...
>
> -Steven
>
> On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 3:26 AM, arne anka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> see buyers interest list
>>> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List
>> and group sales
>>> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
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-- 
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http://mischa.beitz.org

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Re: Ordering Free-for-all?

[Joerg Reisenweber]

Am So  29. Juni 2008 schrieb Dylan Semler:
> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 3:45 PM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > The units are already shippin to EU. So see your disty there.
> >
> > The units for the US are on the docks,  The USA office is closed 2,3,4 
july
> >
> >  Who gets three days off for the fourth of July?  That's ridiculous!
> 
> -- 
> Dylan
> 
> Type faster. Use Dvorak:
> http://dvzine.org

Type better. Use a decent email-client. ;P
Your post was just all quote. Bemuses me like hell.
/j


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Re: Ordering Free-for-all?

[Dylan Semler]

On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 3:45 PM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The units are already shippin to EU. So see your disty there.
>
> The units for the US are on the docks,  The USA office is closed 2,3,4 july
>
>  Who gets three days off for the fourth of July?  That's ridiculous!

-- 
Dylan

Type faster. Use Dvorak:
http://dvzine.org
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Re: Let us impact the material world

[Lally Singh]

Hmm, I'd personally like a good tor client on there.

Of course, tor also needs more relays :-P

Still, if we want real freedom, it's a step in the right direction.

On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Paul Wouters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008, Nelson Castillo wrote:
>
>> I think encrypted messages are crucial for freedom. I also think most
>> people don't know how easy it is for others to see what they send
>> through the networks. I cannot wait to see those Encrypted messages
>> traveling free through _their_ networks to deliver _our_ messages.
>
> That means:
>
> - Phase out SMS in favour of IM (SMS char limit makes crypto hard, cheaper 
> too)
> - Use OTR with IM (http://otr.cypherpunks.ca)
>
> I am not sure at the current state of IM clients, but there are
> python bindings for OTR at http://pyotr.pentabarf.de/
>
> I will go at it as soon as I can order my Freerunner in Canada
>
> Paul
>
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-- 
H. Lally Singh
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
Virginia Tech

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Re: To Openmoko developers

[Fradeve]

Michele Renda ha scritto:
> This tread born to be dedicated to all "Openmoko developers", to Steve, 
> Raster, Sean and all the persons that are in every day working to get 
> our child out!
> So please, for a time, we can remove all the complains / polemics about 
> the develop, and to see the results we got, getting a phone very very 
> near to be completly free.
>
> Thank you, OM Developers
> Michele Renda
>
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>   
I don't want to spam but, really, the work of the OM team is great!

Thanks a lot guys,

Fradeve

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Re: FSO Image gets it right

[Kevin Dean]

After Mickkey's explanation, I'm stoked for the FSO. The roadmaps
looks awesome and my wife loves the fact that it's got color!

On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 5:13 PM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wow,
>
>  very kool. Sean and I spent a bunch of hours yesterday talking about FSO.
>
>  Mickey is genius. I just need to wrap my head around it
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Yorick Moko
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 12:16 PM
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Subject: Re: FSO Image gets it right
>
> video of the FSO milestone 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toPe0S8QpJY
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Tilman Baumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Graeme Gregory wrote:
>>> Well I have seen the future and the future is FSO.
>>>
>>> For the first time I have been able to make and receive phone calls
>>> on a
>>> gta02 without hassle. GTK+ software could no do this, qtopia software
>>> cannot do this.
>>
>> Scaredycats gtk/phonekit/the-plan[tm] build works well for my gta01.
>> I think this front end is the future. :) But i would like to see this
>> work with the FSO (Do we really call it this way?) back ends...
>> Is someone working on this?
>>
>> --
>> Drucken Sie diese Mail bitte nur auf Recyclingpapier aus.
>> Please print this mail only on recycled paper.
>>
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>>
>
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Selling my Neo 1973

[Igor Foox]

Hi,

I've had a Neo 1973 since they shipped first a while ago. Unfortunately I
never had the time to hack on it, or to play around with it sufficiently to
make the purchase worth while. So I decided to sell the device so that
someone else might use it.

I'm asking for $150 (Canadian or US).

I'm located in Toronto, Canada. I can ship it to wherever you'd like or if
you're in the area we can arrange to meet. If anyone's interested, please
let me know.

Happy hacking! :-)
Igor
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Re: More HW from OpenMoko

[Joerg Reisenweber]

Am Sa  28. Juni 2008 schrieb steve:
> RPN please.
> 
> Actually it would be cool to do retro versions of the old HP prgrammable
> calcs ( 12 etc etc)
> Hehe, like donkey kong on the PC.
> 

ACK. 
Though it's hard to emulate the really lovely keys those calculators (25, 41) 
had, tactile feedback and all. (TI otoh had bouncing keys that made me smash 
some of their calculators. more fun to smash than to use ;-)
Waah, my 41CV went up in smoke recently, stored in my bookshelf that burned 
down ;.( *sigh*
Also the info function (HP41 only?) on any keypress longer 2sec was *very* 
smart, probably a patent of HP. (you remember? hold key down to show what's 
going to happen when you release it. Hold down for >2sec to pre-cancel the 
actual pending release action, in case info shows this wasn't what you 
intended to do)


/jOERG

http://www.hpmuseum.org/simulate/sim45.htm "press 'run'"
http://www.linuxfocus.org/common/src/article319/
http://www.linuxfocus.org/common/src/article319/rpnjcalc.html
http://www.linuxfocus.org/common/src/article319/hp-35/launch.html
http://www.linuxfocus.org/common/src/article319/hp-35.zip
http://www.linuxfocus.org/common/src/article319/x48.html
http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4524

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/apps/math/calc 
http://directory.fsf.org/project/rpncalc/

recommended:
http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp35.htm
> A few bugs got through this process. For example: 2.02 ln ex resulted in 2
> rather than 2.02. When the bug was discovered, HP had already sold 25,000
> units which was a huge volume for the company. In a meeting, Dave Packard
> asked what they were going to do about the units already in the field and
> someone in the crowd said "Don't tell?" At this Packard's pencil snapped
> and he said: "Who said that? We're going to tell everyone and offer them, a
> replacement. It would be better to never make a dime of profit than to have
> a product out there with a problem". It turns out that less than a quarter
> of the units were returned. Most people preferred to keep their buggy
> calculator and the notice from HP offering the replacement.


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RE: FSO Image gets it right

[steve]

Wow,

 very kool. Sean and I spent a bunch of hours yesterday talking about FSO.

 Mickey is genius. I just need to wrap my head around it 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Yorick Moko
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 12:16 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FSO Image gets it right

video of the FSO milestone 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toPe0S8QpJY


On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Tilman Baumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Graeme Gregory wrote:
>> Well I have seen the future and the future is FSO.
>>
>> For the first time I have been able to make and receive phone calls 
>> on a
>> gta02 without hassle. GTK+ software could no do this, qtopia software 
>> cannot do this.
>
> Scaredycats gtk/phonekit/the-plan[tm] build works well for my gta01.
> I think this front end is the future. :) But i would like to see this 
> work with the FSO (Do we really call it this way?) back ends...
> Is someone working on this?
>
> --
> Drucken Sie diese Mail bitte nur auf Recyclingpapier aus.
> Please print this mail only on recycled paper.
>
> ___
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> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>

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RE: Ordering Free-for-all?

[steve]

The units are already shippin to EU. So see your disty there.

The units for the US are on the docks,  The USA office is closed 2,3,4 july

So first ship USA ( assuming no problems in customs) is week of 7 july.

Announcement will go out  


The web shop at openmoko.com will OPEN when products land in the US and are
ready to ship. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Horton
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 12:34 PM
To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion'
Subject: RE: Ordering Free-for-all?

...And with the delays on the list the email will arrive about the time it
sells out. :)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven **
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 10:54 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Ordering Free-for-all?

And note that those will have zero impact on your chance of getting a Neo.

Essentially, if you want a Neo, make sure you check your email often.
I'm assuming the announcement will go to the announcement list...

-Steven

On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 3:26 AM, arne anka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> see buyers interest list
>> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List
> and group sales
>> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales
>
>
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RE: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)

[steve]

Perfect.

 Take the existing GTK apps. make your perfect phone. I will sell you phones
At a huge discount and you can make money based on your belief and expertise
in GTK+.
You buy phones from me, you add your software, you resell. Make money off
your passion
For GTK+.

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Esben Stien
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 6:58 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)

"Ron K. Jeffries" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> the rationale for the decision to switch from the original GTK based 
> OpenMoko

There will be a fork here at one point. There's a good bunch of us who wants
a standard GTK+ environment as the main guis' for the phone. There's even
some that don't want any QT on the phone, at all;).

I just hope that the existing applications has been properly engineered,
separating the core from the UI (MVC, three tier, PCMEF) so that it's just a
matter of speaking a common protocol.

-- 
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Re: More HW from OpenMoko

[Lally Singh]

That device is beautiful.

My vote for the GTA04+: An OpenPandora with a GSM transceiver.

Well, if people object to that, I think more than a few devs might end
up getting both; it'd be nice if we could keep the codebases fairly
compatible.

On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> To me come in mind this:
>
> http://openpandora.org/
>
>
>
> Michael Stather wrote:
>> Sean Moss-Pultz schrieb:
>>
>>> On 6/28/08 Robert Schuster wrote:
>>>
>>>
 Mickey writes: "Openmoko is selling hardware products."

 Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones?

 I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would
 likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a
 SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld.

 What is OpenMoko thinking about this?


>> I'm not a hardcore gamer myself but I think that the gaming haldheld
>> could be awesome success (with proper 3D acceleration of course) since
>> it would be first-of-its-kind.
>> There are so many good open-source games available which could be
>> ported, and really IMHO rival proprietary platforms where every game
>> costs about 50€/70$.
>> If it had WLAN for online games and even more a possibility to connect a
>> mouse (USB host or bluetooth) for FPS and Strategy games it would be
>> even better.
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> community@lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
>
>
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-- 
H. Lally Singh
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
Virginia Tech

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Re: More HW from OpenMoko

[Cedric Cellier]

-[ Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 08:25:42PM +0200, Michele Renda ]
> To me come in mind this:
> 
> http://openpandora.org/

Last time I checked hardware was not free neither - it uses powerVR
instead of ATI, for instance.


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To Openmoko developers

[Michele Renda]

This tread born to be dedicated to all "Openmoko developers", to Steve, 
Raster, Sean and all the persons that are in every day working to get 
our child out!
So please, for a time, we can remove all the complains / polemics about 
the develop, and to see the results we got, getting a phone very very 
near to be completly free.

Thank you, OM Developers
Michele Renda

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RE: More HW from OpenMoko

[steve]

RPN please.

Actually it would be cool to do retro versions of the old HP prgrammable
calcs ( 12 etc etc)
Hehe, like donkey kong on the PC.

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jose Manrique
Lopez de la Fuente
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 8:39 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: More HW from OpenMoko

Why not a powerful handeld graphic calculator?

2008/6/28, Al Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Saturday 28 June 2008, Robert Schuster wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Mickey writes: "Openmoko is selling hardware products."
>>
>> Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones?
>
> That's all they've sold direct so far, but it was said a long time ago 
> that non-phone products may be in the pipeline
>
>> I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would 
>> likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a 
>> SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld.
>
> I would prefer Openmoko to fill holes where there aren't already free 
> devices available. Most of the areas you mention already have hardware 
> available that's as open as the Neo1973 and Freerunner:
>
> Routers - wireless or not:
> PC Engines ALIX series - http://www.pcengines.ch/ MicroTik 
> RouterBOARDs - http://www.routerboard.com/comparison.html
>
> SOHO NAS:
> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5637467946.html
>
> Gaming handheld:
> Pandora
>
> Then there's the Neuros OSD which really needs a successor with a 
> better output than composite video, but is otherwise rather nice.
>
> The PDA is one area there's a gap I would like filling. I want a 
> modern incarnation of the Psion 5. I'll just have to see how the 
> Freerunner plus a bluetooth keyboard do as a replacement. It might just be
close enough...
>
> I would also like a less power-hungry version of the Chumby, available 
> outside the US.
>
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--
J. Manrique López de la Fuente
http://www.jsmanrique.es

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RE: More HW from OpenMoko

[steve]

Nothing stops anybody from approaching me with this idea to build their own 
business.

 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Stather
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 9:48 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: More HW from OpenMoko

Sean Moss-Pultz schrieb:
> On 6/28/08 Robert Schuster wrote:
>   
>> Mickey writes: "Openmoko is selling hardware products."
>>
>> Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones?
>>
>> I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would 
>> likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a 
>> SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld.
>>
>> What is OpenMoko thinking about this?
>> 
I'm not a hardcore gamer myself but I think that the gaming haldheld could be 
awesome success (with proper 3D acceleration of course) since it would be 
first-of-its-kind.
There are so many good open-source games available which could be ported, and 
really IMHO rival proprietary platforms where every game costs about 50€/70$.
If it had WLAN for online games and even more a possibility to connect a mouse 
(USB host or bluetooth) for FPS and Strategy games it would be even better.


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Re: More HW from OpenMoko

[Michele Renda]

To me come in mind this:

http://openpandora.org/



Michael Stather wrote:
> Sean Moss-Pultz schrieb:
>   
>> On 6/28/08 Robert Schuster wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> Mickey writes: "Openmoko is selling hardware products."
>>>
>>> Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones?
>>>
>>> I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would
>>> likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a
>>> SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld.
>>>
>>> What is OpenMoko thinking about this?
>>>
>>>   
> I'm not a hardcore gamer myself but I think that the gaming haldheld
> could be awesome success (with proper 3D acceleration of course) since
> it would be first-of-its-kind.
> There are so many good open-source games available which could be
> ported, and really IMHO rival proprietary platforms where every game
> costs about 50€/70$.
> If it had WLAN for online games and even more a possibility to connect a
> mouse (USB host or bluetooth) for FPS and Strategy games it would be
> even better.
>
>
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Re: Fast questions about GTA03

[Hans L]

On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 5:22 AM, Neil Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Saturday June 28, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> I was thinking of asking the very same thing.
>> When dialing or using a calculator or sending a text message, the glamo
>> would only slow us down. Or am I mistaken?
>> Maybe it's a very stupid question (I presume if it were possible such a
>> trivial feat would already be implemented).
>
> The "glamo" is the video controller.  If you disable the glamo, you
> don't get any picture.

Well, sure, but think of the bright side: you would have infinite FPS
in this video mode!
:-P

Hans

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Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)

[Michele Renda]

Because people like to hate.
The world will be better that all the differences are a point of 
strongness. Nature already understood it. People usually arrive later.

MR.
arne anka wrote:
>> excuse me, but why would one _hate_ qt/qtopia?
>> not being their toolkit of choice, ok.
>> not liking the visual apperance or the way one programs with it, ok.
>> but hate? what poor *** has one to be to _hate_ some lines of innocent code?
>>
>> ___
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Re: Let us impact the material world

[Nelson Castillo]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Paul Wouters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008, Nelson Castillo wrote:
>
>> I think encrypted messages are crucial for freedom. I also think most
>> people don't know how easy it is for others to see what they send
>> through the networks. I cannot wait to see those Encrypted messages
>> traveling free through _their_ networks to deliver _our_ messages.
>
> That means:
>
> - Phase out SMS in favour of IM (SMS char limit makes crypto hard, cheaper 
> too)
> - Use OTR with IM (http://otr.cypherpunks.ca)
>
> I am not sure at the current state of IM clients, but there are
> python bindings for OTR at http://pyotr.pentabarf.de/
>
> I will go at it as soon as I can order my Freerunner in Canada

Mmm.

Doesn't IM requiere permanent connection? For status updates, etc?

I'd like to know what you think about two things:

1) We know email is broken (at least unsafe and prone to spam)
2) What is the best alternative for this scenario? Is it really IM?
3) Are there other (IP-based) protocolos suitable for delivering the
encrypted messages?

Regards,
Nelson.-

-- 
http://arhuaco.org

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Re: The glamo chip and its future

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Mikko Rauhala wrote:
> Youtube does provide higher quality mp4 video nowadays; you can get at
> the download links from eg. keepvid.com service. So if the mp4 files
> downloadable are ones that the Glamo chip can decode, that's our
> solution; just code a youtube viewer that shows the mp4 versions.

Youtube has also mp4 low quality videos and 3gp.
Try: http://3v1n0.net/youtube-full-dl/ [1]


[1] Weeks ago it was also able to download the original quality video 
(real HD too!). then YT blocked me :(

-- 
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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: Let us impact the material world

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

kenneth marken wrote:
> On Saturday 28 June 2008 14:54:11 xiangfu wrote:
>> may be can use SMS control the remote NEO like send
>> "#neo_command shutdown -h now "
>> then the neo poweroff : )
>>
> 
> that could be worriesome without some kind of id system to verify that the 
> sender is someone that should have that kind of control.
> 
> if a random person can send commands to the freerunner, it will be a security 
> nightmare...

Well, I figure that a list of trusted senders is absolutely needed :)

Anyway thanks Sean for your words!

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Re: More HW from OpenMoko

[Michael Stather]

Sean Moss-Pultz schrieb:
> On 6/28/08 Robert Schuster wrote:
>   
>> Mickey writes: "Openmoko is selling hardware products."
>>
>> Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones?
>>
>> I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would
>> likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a
>> SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld.
>>
>> What is OpenMoko thinking about this?
>> 
I'm not a hardcore gamer myself but I think that the gaming haldheld 
could be awesome success (with proper 3D acceleration of course) since 
it would be first-of-its-kind.
There are so many good open-source games available which could be 
ported, and really IMHO rival proprietary platforms where every game 
costs about 50€/70$.
If it had WLAN for online games and even more a possibility to connect a 
mouse (USB host or bluetooth) for FPS and Strategy games it would be 
even better.


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Re: The glamo chip and its future

[Kosa]

Yorick Moko escribió:
I have no idea if it will be slow but youtube video's
should be possible.

"should be" is not the same than "it is". could anybody confirm
that? One of the biggest
problems I have running linux on a PowerPC mac it that there is not
flash player for this
plataform. I use gnash and I can watch and use a lot of flash content,
but I cannnot watch
youtube videos at least I download them using clive and playing them (I
use mplayer).
Gnash used to work for youtube, but it stopped working about a month
ago. I use Debian Lenny

Kosa
- Un mundo mejor es posible -

Standard youtube is 320x240 (but they are experimenting
with higher resolution) .
Maybe you would have to encode it to mpeg-4 though, don't know if it
will work through flash.
  
nice post about the video acceleration: http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/
  
y
  
  On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 12:17 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
  I
would like to know more about that too. Especially I would like to
know how real devices work - are they slow or not? I don't really need
3d games or anything, but i don't want my smartphone to be slow.
Also is it possible in theory to play youtube videos?


On 6/28/08, Michael Stather <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I was a fan of the openmoko idea even when it was announced at
first.
> Now when the first "real" device was announced I was thinking about
> buying one but then I realized the situaltion with the 3D chip
which I
> read was "a very big design mistake". At least this is what I read,
> since neither read 2D or 3D acceleration is possible.
> So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had
a much
> larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release.
I mean
> e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of
the
> functionality of such a smartphone.
> Unfortunately, in the wiki wish list nobody complained about this
and I
> didn't find anything on the home page, while this is probably the
> biggest concern of the users as far as what I've read.
>
> regards
>
> Michgael
>
>
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Re: More HW from OpenMoko

[Sean Moss-Pultz]

On 6/28/08 Robert Schuster wrote:
> Mickey writes: "Openmoko is selling hardware products."
> 
> Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones?
> 
> I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would
> likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a
> SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld.
> 
> What is OpenMoko thinking about this?

We agree with you. And we're thinking. Working. ;-)

-- 

   -Sean

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Re: Qtopia/X11 status

[Marc Bantle]

Hi,
Sascha Peilicke schrieb:
> Hi guys,
>
> can someone tell me (or point me) to the current status of the Qtopia X11 
> port?
>   
ASU is already using it :-)

See the buildhost [1] for software images for your platform (neo1973 or 
Freerunner). Files are named Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11*.

Cheers, Marc

[1] http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily

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Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)

[arne anka]

> I think a lot of people hate QT so much that they don't even see  anymore 
> that GTK+ still lives and grows as before!

excuse me, but why would one _hate_ qt/qtopia?
not being their toolkit of choice, ok.
not liking the visual apperance or the way one programs with it, ok.
but hate? what poor *** has one to be to _hate_ some lines of innocent code?

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Qtopia/X11 status

[Sascha Peilicke]

Hi guys,

can someone tell me (or point me) to the current status of the Qtopia X11 
port?
-- 
Kind regards,
Sascha Peilicke http://www.saschashideout.de


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Re: More HW from OpenMoko

[Jose Manrique Lopez de la Fuente]

Why not a powerful handeld graphic calculator?

2008/6/28, Al Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Saturday 28 June 2008, Robert Schuster wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Mickey writes: "Openmoko is selling hardware products."
>>
>> Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones?
>
> That's all they've sold direct so far, but it was said a long time ago that
> non-phone products may be in the pipeline
>
>> I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would
>> likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a
>> SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld.
>
> I would prefer Openmoko to fill holes where there aren't already free
> devices
> available. Most of the areas you mention already have hardware available
> that's as open as the Neo1973 and Freerunner:
>
> Routers - wireless or not:
> PC Engines ALIX series - http://www.pcengines.ch/
> MicroTik RouterBOARDs - http://www.routerboard.com/comparison.html
>
> SOHO NAS:
> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5637467946.html
>
> Gaming handheld:
> Pandora
>
> Then there's the Neuros OSD which really needs a successor with a better
> output than composite video, but is otherwise rather nice.
>
> The PDA is one area there's a gap I would like filling. I want a modern
> incarnation of the Psion 5. I'll just have to see how the Freerunner plus a
> bluetooth keyboard do as a replacement. It might just be close enough...
>
> I would also like a less power-hungry version of the Chumby, available
> outside
> the US.
>
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-- 
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http://www.jsmanrique.es

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Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop

[alexander schmidt]

now it?s advance booking for the :-(  25.07
someone got an confirmation for the 05.07 ???

>
> Ok. Thanks a lot.
> It's not the same page when you click on the home's picture or on the
> left menu ...
>
> Now I have to see if I can change my order ...
>
> Mike
>
> Christian Weßel a écrit :
>> Just scroll down at 
>>
>> Am Freitag, den 27.06.2008, 18:00 +0200 schrieb Mike Baroukh:
>>
 with bag and headphones

>>> Where do you saw a bag ?
>>> Is there any options ? I didn't see where ...
>>>
>>> I also ordered mine but without the debug board I did not found ...
>>>
>>> thanks.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Bumbl a écrit :
>>>
 Christoph Pulster schrieb:


>> what about the german distributors subscribed to this list
>> any news on freerunners received?
>>
>>
>>
> We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July) and accept orders now.
> Price 299 eur incl. VAT. A cheap price means more owners.
> That's what the community needs.
>
> Christoph
>
>
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>
>
>
 Ordered mine too
 with bag and headphones

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>>>
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Re: The glamo chip and its future

[The Rasterman]

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:57:47 +0200 Michael Stather <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> Couldn't the glamo just be driven with a highter bandwidth, or is this a 
> chipset limitation?

no it can't. we already are seeing performance far beyond anything the glamo's
designers have ever seen. in theory we could get more, but the chipset (glamo
+ samsung 2442 combo) won't be getting that for us. :(

> And if the chip just isn't capable of performing better, what about the 
> idea to have plain framebuffer access only through the processor but 
> include a CLPD/FPGA in the design which may be loaded "on the fly" with 
> a firmware for a simple 3D chip. I was involved in a project of a game 

no possible. too late. phone is shipping. lcd is wired up to the glamo. on-chip
lcd controller is not connected. fpga's are power hungry. not going to happen
on a phone. also tyhe glamo is our interface to the sd-card in the freerunner.

> console, with 2D acceleration only, but IMHO simple 3D acceleration 
> isn't that hard. And this would have the advantage that the 3D core is 
> fully open and can even be improved with optimisations and more features.
> I think through its openness openmoko could also become quite popular 
> for gamers, since there exist many good open-source games which could be 
> ported easily to the platform if there was hardware acceleration (OpenGL 
> ES or even better plain OpenGL). Thinking of consumers, they want fancy 
> 3D effects and games, and since all options nowadays are either j2ME 
> commercial games or smartphones which have all a rather small community 
> or are closed like the iPhone, this could becomne another real advantage 
> of the openmoko platform.
> 
> 
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Re: The glamo chip and its future

[The Rasterman]

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:25:12 +0200 "Yorick Moko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> I have no idea if it will be slow but youtube video's should be possible.
> Standard youtube is 320x240 (but they are experimenting with higher
> resolution) .
> Maybe you would have to encode it to mpeg-4 though, don't know if it will
> work through flash.
> 
> nice post about the video acceleration:
> http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/

youtube would be possible if you can live with lower fps (up to 20fps) without
converting to mpeg4. frankly a lower fps is probably more than fine for
youtube. not like the content is amazing quality anyway! :). you just will need
a .swf player that uses standard xvideo acceleration.

> y
> 
> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 12:17 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I would like to know more about that too. Especially I would like to
> > know how real devices work - are they slow or not? I don't really need
> > 3d games or anything, but i don't want my smartphone to be slow.
> > Also is it possible in theory to play youtube videos?
> >
> > On 6/28/08, Michael Stather <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I was a fan of the openmoko idea even when it was announced at first.
> > > Now when the first "real" device was announced I was thinking about
> > > buying one but then I realized the situaltion with the 3D chip which I
> > > read was "a very big design mistake". At least this is what I read,
> > > since neither read 2D or 3D acceleration is possible.
> > > So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had a much
> > > larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release. I mean
> > > e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of the
> > > functionality of such a smartphone.
> > > Unfortunately, in the wiki wish list nobody complained about this and I
> > > didn't find anything on the home page, while this is probably the
> > > biggest concern of the users as far as what I've read.
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > Michgael
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > >
> >
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> >
> 


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Re: The glamo chip and its future

[The Rasterman]

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:26:24 +0300 Mikko Rauhala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> la, 2008-06-28 kello 09:43 +0200, Michael Stather kirjoitti:
> > At least this is what I read, 
> > since neither read 2D or 3D acceleration is possible.
> 
> That is quite an overstatement of the problems. At least Xv and mpeg4
> accelerations are possible with available software. I don't know exactly
> how much accelerated support there otherwise is, but at least seems from
> public statements that basic stuff like blitting/solid fills/rotation
> etc is there. So please, while the Glamo is no panacea, and the
> bandwidth issues are real enough, no FUD that nothing is possible with
> it.

bingo. correct. the mpeg4 accel is definitely hackish as there is no well
defined access api/system for it. it wont forward-=port to any new/different
soc's.

> Also, while this is purely speculative, balrog-kun (the guy responsible
> for mpeg-4 acceleration) at least at some point had some ambitions on
> doing basic 3d acceleration support, but that would probably require
> running in QVGA mode even if that pans out. (The Glamo is not really
> designed for VGA displays even if it can drive one.)

yup. 3d accel wont be doable in vga. the max 3d buffer size is 511x511 (less
than vga in 1 dimension), so going down to qvga will be needed. you cover the
issues quite well here. i'm just confirming it. :)

> > So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had a much 
> > larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release.
> 
> It is public information that the Glamo is off the table for GTA03 due
> to it not panning out quite as well as was originally hoped.
> 
> As for why, I can only speculate. The short specs without the caveats
> were attractive enough, they got permission to do a free driver, and the
> Glamo provided an extra SD controller (though limited by its bus) which
> was necessary with the wifi chip requiring one.

yup. when you read initial specs for glamo you go "oooh nice". then you find
the gotchas. (256x256 max texture size, no render-to-texture, 511x511 max 3d
destination buffer size, ...) and you being to see how much work it will be to
work with it. if we had a qvga display glamo would be a better match. vga is at
the upper limit of the glamo. a lot of stuff CAN be done. given enough time and
effort and willingness to accept the limitations (eg yes - 3d can be done, but
only openglES 1.1, and qvga output). i had been thinking of doing all 2d accel
via the 3d pipe at one point. this would have given us fantastic support for
xrender, compositing, 3d for games and more, but the limitations made me
realise we'd fall short on many parts of that pipeline. it's all possible - but
there are things that will limit you, and that's just a fact of life with the
chip. i didn't have any idea access to/from video ram would be the speed it is.
we did try dma to alleviate it - but that was a failed experiment. in the end
we have product to ship and what is there now is "good enough". we can't go
delaying a product forever to play games for 1 graphics chip.

> > I mean e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of
> > the functionality of such a smartphone.
> 
> For fast-paced games you might want to use QVGA mode to alleviate the
> bandwidth issues, but IMAO on such a small screen that isn't a bad deal
> anyway (for fast-paced games spesifically). Something like scumm
> adventure games should be fine in higher resolution, but that isn't a
> promise as I don't have a GTA02 myself yet (the order _is_ in :).

yup. qvga would help a lot.

> Realize that the GTA03 will apparently be dumb framebuffer again, like
> GTA01. While that speeds up pure blitting to the screen from the main
> memory, do not expect wonders from it either.
> 
> Where future devices go, we shall see. The reality is that most high-end
> embedded graphics stuff is closed as hell. What with Android and even
> Nokia announcing preliminary plans for Linux phones, there are quite
> enough high-profile companies doing this stuff with no regard for real
> openness (witness Android FAQ and partner list, and Nokia's Maemo).

yup. the way graphics on embedded is going is that it is part of the cpu
(soc). so you get what you get with the soc. you don't choose it separately.
this itself makes lots of dev work to squeeze everything from the glamo a less
attractive proposition. we need to tread carefully in the future to ensure:

1. our products stay OPEN.
2. we try and provide as much as possible given limitations.

the glamo is not bad - if you don't try and push it. we, unfortunately, are
pushing it already by virtue of shipping a vga lcd. :) then it begins to show
that it has limitations.

> I for one would like OpenMoko to differentiate in this respect and stay
> the course even with the difficulties it may pose.
> 
> -- 
> Mikko Rauhala   - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.iki.fi/mjr/>
> Transhumanist   - WTA member - http://www.t

Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)

[The Rasterman]

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 10:41:43 +0100 Stroller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> 
> On 28 Jun 2008, at 03:05, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:11:06 +0100 Stroller  
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> >
> >>
> >> On 27 Jun 2008, at 19:01, Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Can someone explain the rationale for the decision
> >>> to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko
> >>> to QT based version known as April Software Update (ASU)?
> >>
> >>
> >> Rasterman is the rationale, as far as I can make out.
> >
> > i had nothing to do with it. i, in fact suggested to keep the  
> > current gtk apps
> > as-is
> 
> I apologise. It just seemed that this change occurred without  
> explanation when you came on board. A message you posted some time  
> ago evangelising E16 (??) firmed the impression that the new  
> environment was your innovation.

i said nothing of e16 - e17 is a wm. it can replace matchbox - and also take
over the "today" screen and launcher all in one. it's got that rolled into 1
compact process. i would be more than happy keeping the gtk dialler, address
book, browser, etc. etc. if people wish to replace these with efl or qt etc. is
entirely their business. i'm agnostic there. personally i'd go for the most
core apps (dialler, address book, sms read/edit) being built into the "wm" as
modules (for sheer efficiency/speed. this way calling someone or answering a
call is instantly available and shares resources with your current desktop
environment directly thus is small and very efficient), but everything else
being a process that is run when/if needed. use whatever toolkit tickles your
fancy.

> > just improve the "desktop environment". others at openmoko insisted  
> > even
> > on just qtopia - no x11. they wanted qtopia because for them "it  
> > worked". we
> > ended up with a compromise of a port of qtopia on x11 - but then  
> > also needing a
> > custom wm.
> 
> I have to say that I find it a bit odd running X11 on a mobile phone  

i'td odd because you're just not used to it, but as such the phone is just fine
a place to run it. it is what arbitrates access to the graphics subsystem,
display and input devices. it's nothing more than a well known and built-on way
to share a hardware resource. using anything else will end up with you just
re-inventing the lower-level x11 layer anyway.

> - a WM wouldn't be required without it - when an alternative is  
> possible. In fact, as far as I can ascertain an alternative already  
> exists. X11 seems logical to me for desktop computers, but not for a  
> device which will only ever have one main window on the screen at a  
> time. I had mistakenly understood earlier Openmoko builds to be non- 
> X11 (i.e. qtopia-ish?)

incorrect. the earlier builds have always been x11 + wm + gtk. the only thing i
felt could be improved was replacing the minimalist wm (matchbox) that itself
did pretty much nothing, and then the panel and launcher/today screen with e as
it could do most of this already in 1 process and is extendible with modules to
modify placement policy etc.

as such your screen has MULTIPLE windows and processes already. every "dialog"
box that pops up is a new window. in qtopia the "back/options" thing on the
bottom is a separate window to the app - handled by the qpe "desktop" process.
illume (module for e) has special placement policy code to handle that feature
of qtopia.

invariably those that do not understand x11 and like to plot its downfall are
invariably doomed to re-invent it (in the end), instead of just build on it.

let me give an example of where you WANT a wm and WANT to use x11 (long-term)
on phones.

take a 3.2" or 3.5" screen. imagine you divide it. the top part is a status
panel (this is... gasp! a window! it may be a process of its own or part of
another). then you have your "current app" window - and imagine at the bottom
you place a "side app". eg - mp3 or media player. so while i am writing an sms
to my gramdother, my mp3 player is pumping out tunes, but the CONTROLS and
STATUS are there - in the player window at the bottom of my screen. i don't
like the track - quickly hit next, without flipping away from my sms editing.
wm handles the layout policy and squeezing windows into the available screen
when/if needed. the bottom doesn't need to be the mp3 player. it could be my
"irc" session - with my friends, always going, but the top is my today screen
or sms editor or dialler or web browser, so i'm watching whats going on in
#openmoko while doing something else, without having to flip away.

yes - this isn't happening now and a 2.8" screen is a tad too small, but the
point is to think beyond just what we have now and into what could be possible,
what people might want to do. design into the future and allow for it, not
design so doing it is hard or impossible or requires major re-works and porting
efforts.

x11 on a phone makes a lot of sense. the xserver is the arbitrator for screen
an

Re: The glamo chip and its future

[The Rasterman]

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:43:37 +0200 Michael Stather <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> I was a fan of the openmoko idea even when it was announced at first. 
> Now when the first "real" device was announced I was thinking about 
> buying one but then I realized the situaltion with the 3D chip which I 
> read was "a very big design mistake". At least this is what I read, 
> since neither read 2D or 3D acceleration is possible.

i don't know what you read, but 2d and 3d accel are "possible". 2d accel is
done. to an extent where it is about as accelerated as most x11 drivers are
(blits, fills accelerated, xvideo yuv->rgb + scaling accelerated, everything
else software fallback). 3d is not done as it will need a fair bit of work and
no time for that currently. the problem is when you go to a software fallback
doing transfers over the bus TO the video card are not fast.

so your information is not correct. :) but it's not a powerhouse chip. don't
think that you suddenly have some iphone killer graphics chip.

> So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had a much 
> larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release. I mean 
> e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of the 
> functionality of such a smartphone.

needed extra sdio to get wifi for you. without needing it for wifi, glamo
wouldnt be "needed". the glamo itself has an sd card interface. thisis now used
for the actual sd card and the old sd card interface on the cpu is used for the
wifi chip. it's a price paid for wifi on the given hardware.

> Unfortunately, in the wiki wish list nobody complained about this and I 
> didn't find anything on the home page, while this is probably the 
> biggest concern of the users as far as what I've read.
> 
> regards
> 
> Michgael
> 
> 
> ___
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-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Michael 'Mickey' Lauer writes:
>Fwiw, my take on that is @ 
>http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/

Very good summary -- I'd really like to see the 2007.2 stack on top of
FSO... 

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Re: More HW from OpenMoko

[Al Johnson]

On Saturday 28 June 2008, Robert Schuster wrote:
> Hi,
> Mickey writes: "Openmoko is selling hardware products."
>
> Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones?

That's all they've sold direct so far, but it was said a long time ago that 
non-phone products may be in the pipeline

> I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would
> likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a
> SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld.

I would prefer Openmoko to fill holes where there aren't already free devices 
available. Most of the areas you mention already have hardware available 
that's as open as the Neo1973 and Freerunner:

Routers - wireless or not:
PC Engines ALIX series - http://www.pcengines.ch/
MicroTik RouterBOARDs - http://www.routerboard.com/comparison.html

SOHO NAS:
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5637467946.html

Gaming handheld:
Pandora

Then there's the Neuros OSD which really needs a successor with a better 
output than composite video, but is otherwise rather nice.

The PDA is one area there's a gap I would like filling. I want a modern 
incarnation of the Psion 5. I'll just have to see how the Freerunner plus a 
bluetooth keyboard do as a replacement. It might just be close enough...

I would also like a less power-hungry version of the Chumby, available outside 
the US.

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Re: More HW from OpenMoko

[xiangfu]

very cool : )

Robert Schuster wrote:
> Hi,
> Mickey writes: "Openmoko is selling hardware products."
>
> Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones?
>
> I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would
> likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a
> SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld.
>
> What is OpenMoko thinking about this?
>
> Regards
> Robert
>
>
> 
>
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Re: The glamo chip and its future

[Cedric Cellier]

-[ Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 03:07:13PM +0200, Robert Schuster ]
> Just want to add this: Do you know that the Nokia Internet Tablet
> devices contain a capable 3d accelerator as well? The reason it is not
> used is the same as for the FreeRunner.

Sorry but IIRC the Glamo is unusable because of its specs beeing non
free. The Nokia tablet situation seams a little different : the 3d chip
fitted into the TI OMAP is unusable in the first place because it's not
the OMAP that drives the display, being unable to work with such a
high-res display. So it's a simple and cheap epson controller that's
used instead.


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Re: The glamo chip and its future

[Michael Stather]

Robert Schuster schrieb:
> Hi.
>
> Michael Stather schrieb:
>   
>> I was a fan of the openmoko idea even when it was announced at first. 
>> Now when the first "real" device was announced I was thinking about 
>> buying one but then I realized the situaltion with the 3D chip which I 
>> read was "a very big design mistake".
>> 
> Just want to add this: Do you know that the Nokia Internet Tablet
> devices contain a capable 3d accelerator as well? The reason it is not
> used is the same as for the FreeRunner.
>
> Regards
> Robert
>
>   
No I didn't, but it's very interesting since I didn't expect Nokia to 
care much about openness. Or is it because of the slow bus speeds?
With ATI releasing the specs for all newer graphics adapters, would 
there be a chance to get an Imageon chip on board. Or something from 
another vendor. Or an FPGA like I said, this would be the "holy grail of 
openness" and the 3D core could be developed and provided with updates 
for every model.
3D acceleration on the BeagleBoard, AFAIK this board is full of (very 
stupid *gg) bugs and somebody has to find a 3D accelerator as well to 
plug it in ;)


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More HW from OpenMoko

[Robert Schuster]

Hi,
Mickey writes: "Openmoko is selling hardware products."

Heck, why must OpenMoko only sell mobile phones?

I like Linux-based devices that are free as in freedom. So I would
likely also buy a device from OpenMoko if it is a wireless router, a
SOHO NAS (think NSLU2), a PDA or perhaps a gaming handheld.

What is OpenMoko thinking about this?

Regards
Robert



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Re: Let us impact the material world

[kenneth marken]

On Saturday 28 June 2008 14:54:11 xiangfu wrote:
> may be can use SMS control the remote NEO like send
> "#neo_command shutdown -h now "
> then the neo poweroff : )
>

that could be worriesome without some kind of id system to verify that the 
sender is someone that should have that kind of control.

if a random person can send commands to the freerunner, it will be a security 
nightmare...

> Francesco Cat wrote:
> > There is also a nice feature that could be used with SMS: imagine that
> > the SMS is automatically shortened (eg by abbreviating words and stuff
> > like that) than it's compressed before being sent; I tried once and
> > there should be libraries that could fit the "dictionary" needed for
> > extraction + 500 characters in 302 chars... It means 2 SMS instead of
> > 3 or more :)
> >
> > 2008/6/28 Paul Wouters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008, Nelson Castillo wrote:
> >>> I think encrypted messages are crucial for freedom. I also think most
> >>> people don't know how easy it is for others to see what they send
> >>> through the networks. I cannot wait to see those Encrypted messages
> >>> traveling free through _their_ networks to deliver _our_ messages.
> >>
> >> That means:
> >>
> >> - Phase out SMS in favour of IM (SMS char limit makes crypto hard,
> >> cheaper too) - Use OTR with IM (http://otr.cypherpunks.ca)
> >>
> >> I am not sure at the current state of IM clients, but there are
> >> python bindings for OTR at http://pyotr.pentabarf.de/
> >>
> >> I will go at it as soon as I can order my Freerunner in Canada
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Openmoko community mailing list
> >> community@lists.openmoko.org
> >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> > ___
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> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
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Re: The glamo chip and its future

[Robert Schuster]

Hi.

Michael Stather schrieb:
> I was a fan of the openmoko idea even when it was announced at first. 
> Now when the first "real" device was announced I was thinking about 
> buying one but then I realized the situaltion with the 3D chip which I 
> read was "a very big design mistake".
Just want to add this: Do you know that the Nokia Internet Tablet
devices contain a capable 3d accelerator as well? The reason it is not
used is the same as for the FreeRunner.

Regards
Robert




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Re: The glamo chip and its future

[Robert Schuster]

Hi.

Michael Stather schrieb:
> So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had a much 
> larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release. I mean 
> e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of the 
> functionality of such a smartphone.
KoboDeluxe runs fine on Neo1973 as well as the FreeRunner. Sure no 3D
but it is fast enough for 640x480 and 2D gaming IMHO.

Please also note that Worldforge, Flightgear, Nexuiz, bzflag et al have
not been integrated into OpenEmbedded yet. :)

This may change if they get proper (= free/open-source) 3D accelearation
on the BeagleBoard though ... ;)

Regards
Robert





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Re: Let us impact the material world

[xiangfu]

may be can use SMS control the remote NEO like send
"#neo_command shutdown -h now "
then the neo poweroff : )

Francesco Cat wrote:
> There is also a nice feature that could be used with SMS: imagine that
> the SMS is automatically shortened (eg by abbreviating words and stuff
> like that) than it's compressed before being sent; I tried once and
> there should be libraries that could fit the "dictionary" needed for
> extraction + 500 characters in 302 chars... It means 2 SMS instead of
> 3 or more :)
>
> 2008/6/28 Paul Wouters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008, Nelson Castillo wrote:
>>
>>> I think encrypted messages are crucial for freedom. I also think most
>>> people don't know how easy it is for others to see what they send
>>> through the networks. I cannot wait to see those Encrypted messages
>>> traveling free through _their_ networks to deliver _our_ messages.
>> That means:
>>
>> - Phase out SMS in favour of IM (SMS char limit makes crypto hard, cheaper 
>> too)
>> - Use OTR with IM (http://otr.cypherpunks.ca)
>>
>> I am not sure at the current state of IM clients, but there are
>> python bindings for OTR at http://pyotr.pentabarf.de/
>>
>> I will go at it as soon as I can order my Freerunner in Canada
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
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Re: The glamo chip and its future

[Michael Stather]

Ben Wilson schrieb:
> I like the 'idea' of something programmable like a CPLD/FPGA, but I
> suspect adding one would be too costly, they're not cheap as far as IC's go.
>
> Ben.
>
> Michael Stather wrote:
>   
>> Couldn't the glamo just be driven with a highter bandwidth, or is this a 
>> chipset limitation?
>> And if the chip just isn't capable of performing better, what about the 
>> idea to have plain framebuffer access only through the processor but 
>> include a CLPD/FPGA in the design which may be loaded "on the fly" with 
>> a firmware for a simple 3D chip. I was involved in a project of a game 
>> console, with 2D acceleration only, but IMHO simple 3D acceleration 
>> isn't that hard. And this would have the advantage that the 3D core is 
>> fully open and can even be improved with optimisations and more features.
>> I think through its openness openmoko could also become quite popular 
>> for gamers, since there exist many good open-source games which could be 
>> ported easily to the platform if there was hardware acceleration (OpenGL 
>> ES or even better plain OpenGL). Thinking of consumers, they want fancy 
>> 3D effects and games, and since all options nowadays are either j2ME 
>> commercial games or smartphones which have all a rather small community 
>> or are closed like the iPhone, this could becomne another real advantage 
>> of the openmoko platform.
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>   
>> 
>
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>
>   
How much does the glamo chip cost? About 10$, or even less? FPGA/CPLDs 
are the same price range IMO


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Re: GTA01 Gllin ipkg

[jonathan spooner]

Did you download it then scp it to the gta01?  If you used wget on the 
gta01 you have not got the file, only the agreement webpage.  The file 
should be 1.9MB in size.

BTW I got the file and opkg still will not install it, reports error 4.

Regards,

Jon


Dan Staley wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> I recently got my GTA01 and am trying to get the gllin ipkg from
> http://3rdparty.downloads.openmoko.org/gllin/ . However, everytime I
> download it, it says it is corrupted.  Does anyone know another place I
> can try to download it?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2008-02-14 at 15:58 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> Send community mailing list submissions to
>> community@lists.openmoko.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of community digest..."
>> email message attachment
>>>  Forwarded Message 
>>> From: fredthecat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Reply-To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
>>> 
>>> To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
>>> 
>>> Subject: Exit of OpenMoko Window System
>>> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:02:11 -0500
>>>
>>> Dear All
>>>
>>> I was playing around with a fully emulated QEMU OpenMoko system (from a
>>> built system using MokoMakefile as
>>> documented in the Wiki), and at one point I hit the space bar (it the
>>> emulated Linux OpenMoko system received the
>>> keypress).
>>>
>>> When I did this, it exited the windows system (as if it had crashed or
>>> just plain died), but dropped me to a command
>>> line login ... and I could happily login as root and use regular commands.
>>>
>>> My question is this:  did I hit a but and crash the UI, or did I hit
>>> some magic (to me) sequence that is intended to exit the UI?
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> email message attachment
>>>  Forwarded Message 
>>> From: Ron K. Jeffries <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Reply-To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
>>> 
>>> To: community@lists.openmoko.org 
>>> Subject: LiMo article in Washington Post
>>> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:46:57 -0500
>>>
>>> Informative article about LiMO in the Washington Post:
>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/14/AR2008021401518.html?wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter
>>>
>>> It may require site registration, but it is a very light-weight approach.
>>>
>>> I am interested in understanding LimO and how it does or does not
>>> relate to Open Moko.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> --
>>> Ron K. Jeffries
>>> http://blog.eronj.com
>>>
>>>
>> email message attachment
>>>  Forwarded Message 
>>> From: Robin Paulson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Reply-To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
>>> 
>>> To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
>>> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:53:28 -0500
>>>
>>> On 14/02/2008, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 Thanks Kyle for a great summary of the work being discussed on the
  kernel ML. I am simply not able to keep up with all the lists and very
  much appreciate your helping out here.

  Michael
>>> indeed, thanks for the info kyle.
>>>
>>> i've been avidly following the dev cycle of the software/hardware
>>> here, and it's good to see some technical info from the kernel ML, 95%
>>> of which is over my head
>>>
>>> would it be possible for someone - michael, kyle? - to give an update
>>> on this kind of info on a regular basis? i'm sure there are plenty of
>>> others eager for technical progress, but who are unlikely to venture
>>> on the kernel list?
>>>
>>>
  Kyle Bassett wrote:
  > I have been following the "Suspended Mode" thread in the kernel ML and
  > they have made amazing progress within the last week.  As GTA02A5
  > currently stands, a "cold" suspend mode (just GSM in standby awaiting
  > incoming call/sms), could result in >20 days of standby!
  >
  > For those technical people on this list, they have gotten GTA02A5 in
  > suspend using ~2.07mA @ 3.7v (fully charged batt).  If the GTA02 will
  > have a 1200mAh battery, that's ~24 days of suspend runtime in a perfect
  > world.  The goal is set around 1mA-2mA of suspend current draw, with
  > best case scenario suspend time of ~50 days (sure beats 4 hours... :-P
  > ).  There are also issues such as internal battery discharge, ~30% over
  > 90 days for one of the packs that is being considered, which will reduce
  > the final suspend runtime available.
  >
  > Currently, work continues attempting to shave even more power
  > consumption from a sleeping Freerunner.  Indi

Re: The glamo chip and its future

[Ben Wilson]

I like the 'idea' of something programmable like a CPLD/FPGA, but I
suspect adding one would be too costly, they're not cheap as far as IC's go.

Ben.

Michael Stather wrote:
> Couldn't the glamo just be driven with a highter bandwidth, or is this a 
> chipset limitation?
> And if the chip just isn't capable of performing better, what about the 
> idea to have plain framebuffer access only through the processor but 
> include a CLPD/FPGA in the design which may be loaded "on the fly" with 
> a firmware for a simple 3D chip. I was involved in a project of a game 
> console, with 2D acceleration only, but IMHO simple 3D acceleration 
> isn't that hard. And this would have the advantage that the 3D core is 
> fully open and can even be improved with optimisations and more features.
> I think through its openness openmoko could also become quite popular 
> for gamers, since there exist many good open-source games which could be 
> ported easily to the platform if there was hardware acceleration (OpenGL 
> ES or even better plain OpenGL). Thinking of consumers, they want fancy 
> 3D effects and games, and since all options nowadays are either j2ME 
> commercial games or smartphones which have all a rather small community 
> or are closed like the iPhone, this could becomne another real advantage 
> of the openmoko platform.
>
>
> ___
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>   

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Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)

[Wolfgang Spraul]

Ron -
I think a lot of people hate QT so much that they don't even see  
anymore that GTK+ still lives and grows as before!


Yes, we brought Qt/Qtopia into Openmoko, on top of X so it can co- 
exist with GTK+ and EFL.

There never has been a 'GTK+ stack'. What is a 'GTK+ stack'?

Hopefully the GTK+ telephony applications can be connected to Mickey's  
new framework, as roh suggested yesterday.
Hopefully all the work raster does will lead to great new EFL-based  
applications. Edje looks very interesting.
Qtopia provides everybody with another option to do telephony. Some  
people may dislike it, well they can ignore it and continue with GTK+  
instead.


OpenEmbedded is what holds Openmoko together, and there will always be  
lots of images.
If anybody expects Openmoko to force a certain API upon its users, you  
are wrong! WinMobile may be forcing some APIs as 'default' APIs upon  
you, so does Symbian, iPhone, etc.

Openmoko won't.
GTK+ is not Openmoko's official/default graphical toolkit, never was  
and never will be. Openmoko's mission is not to teach the world how  
great GTK+ is. If GTK+ is good, great GTK+ applications will emerge,  
and usage of GTK+ will grow. This can be driven by YOU as much as by  
the few full-time Openmoko employees. Please help us improving our GTK 
+ applications today!


Right now there is a lot of momentum behind EFL/Edje at Openmoko, some  
of the new applications we are developing (Assassin, Exposure,  
Splinter) are based on that.
If you think we are "switching to QT" - why are we then developing our  
new applications using EFL?

Hope this provides some background information.

Answering your questions:

Can someone explain the rationale for the decision
to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko
to QT based version known as April Software Update (ASU)?

No switch.
QTopia looked interesting because it gives us a fully functioning set  
of telephony applications, Trolltech GPL'ed it, and we didn't like the  
fact that the only way to get access to it was via the framebuffer- 
based builds Trolltech was distributing. We wanted to have QTopia  
functionality on top of X, so it could co-exist with GTK+ and EFL,  
i.e. so that GTK+ applications (tangoGPS and others) would _NOT_ be  
pushed aside by Qtopia.

Our main direction is not QT, it's EFL.


As an observer, it's my impression that ASU
represents a significant architectural change
that somehow, Wham! Bang! "just happened."
Wrong. Qtopia on framebuffer, pushing all GTK+ work aside, would have  
been a major architectural change.
Our change is very minor, we just port Qtopia on top of X so it  
becomes another option. Actually replacing matchbox with the  
Enlightenment window manager was a bigger architectural change, ask  
raster about that.
I do admit that we have underestimated the degree of antipathy against  
Qtopia that led people to stop listening as soon as they heard the  
word 'Qtopia' or 'Trolltech'.

:-)

Best Regards,
Wolfgang

On Jun 27, 2008, at 8:01 PM, Ron K. Jeffries wrote:



Can someone explain the rationale for the decision
to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko
to QT based version known as April Software Update (ASU)?

As an observer, it's my impression that ASU
represents a significant architectural change
that somehow, Wham! Bang! "just happened."

Transparency is a virtue. 

Ron K. Jeffries
http://www.retaggr.com/Card/rjeffries



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Re: The glamo chip and its future

[Michael Stather]

Couldn't the glamo just be driven with a highter bandwidth, or is this a 
chipset limitation?
And if the chip just isn't capable of performing better, what about the 
idea to have plain framebuffer access only through the processor but 
include a CLPD/FPGA in the design which may be loaded "on the fly" with 
a firmware for a simple 3D chip. I was involved in a project of a game 
console, with 2D acceleration only, but IMHO simple 3D acceleration 
isn't that hard. And this would have the advantage that the 3D core is 
fully open and can even be improved with optimisations and more features.
I think through its openness openmoko could also become quite popular 
for gamers, since there exist many good open-source games which could be 
ported easily to the platform if there was hardware acceleration (OpenGL 
ES or even better plain OpenGL). Thinking of consumers, they want fancy 
3D effects and games, and since all options nowadays are either j2ME 
commercial games or smartphones which have all a rather small community 
or are closed like the iPhone, this could becomne another real advantage 
of the openmoko platform.


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Re: The glamo chip and its future

[Mikko Rauhala]

la, 2008-06-28 kello 12:25 +0200, Yorick Moko kirjoitti:
> I have no idea if it will be slow but youtube video's should be
> possible.

Yeah, their standard videos are such low resolution and quality it could
well be possible reasonably... And also:

> Maybe you would have to encode it to mpeg-4 though, don't know if it
> will work through flash.

Youtube does provide higher quality mp4 video nowadays; you can get at
the download links from eg. keepvid.com service. So if the mp4 files
downloadable are ones that the Glamo chip can decode, that's our
solution; just code a youtube viewer that shows the mp4 versions.
(Somebody with a Freerunner please feel free to verify if this works :)

> nice post about the video acceleration:
> http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/

Indeed.

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Re: Openmoko and google trends

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Am 28.06.2008 um 12:09 schrieb Yorick Moko:


Check google trends:
http://www.google.com/trends?q=Openmoko%2C++FreeRunner&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

I would have expected at least a small spike for the last few days.


I have seen a big spike when switching to view the last 30 days.

(date=all => date=mtd)

http://www.google.com/trends?q=Openmoko%2C++FreeRunner&ctab=0&geo=all&date=mtd&sort=0

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Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)

[Neil Brown]

On Saturday June 28, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> I have to say that I find it a bit odd running X11 on a mobile phone  
> - a WM wouldn't be required without it - when an alternative is  
> possible. In fact, as far as I can ascertain an alternative already  
> exists. X11 seems logical to me for desktop computers, but not for a  
> device which will only ever have one main window on the screen at a  
> time. I had mistakenly understood earlier Openmoko builds to be non- 
> X11 (i.e. qtopia-ish?)

Saying "we don't need X11 because we only have one window" is a bit
like "we don't need a multitasking operating system, because we only
have one user".  It just isn't that simple.

If all that X11 does for us is to allow switching between concurrently
running programs, written against different toolkits, then that is a
very useful thing.
I would hate for someone to be turned of writing an app for Openmoko
because the toolkit they liked wasn't supported, so I think it is very
important to support qt and gtk (and tk and ...).  The only way to
support multiple toolkits today is with an X11 server.

X11 allows freedom of toolkit choice, and freedom is what we are all
about.

NeilBrown

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Re: The glamo chip and its future

[Mikko Rauhala]

la, 2008-06-28 kello 09:43 +0200, Michael Stather kirjoitti:
> At least this is what I read, 
> since neither read 2D or 3D acceleration is possible.

That is quite an overstatement of the problems. At least Xv and mpeg4
accelerations are possible with available software. I don't know exactly
how much accelerated support there otherwise is, but at least seems from
public statements that basic stuff like blitting/solid fills/rotation
etc is there. So please, while the Glamo is no panacea, and the
bandwidth issues are real enough, no FUD that nothing is possible with
it.

Also, while this is purely speculative, balrog-kun (the guy responsible
for mpeg-4 acceleration) at least at some point had some ambitions on
doing basic 3d acceleration support, but that would probably require
running in QVGA mode even if that pans out. (The Glamo is not really
designed for VGA displays even if it can drive one.)

> So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had a much 
> larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release.

It is public information that the Glamo is off the table for GTA03 due
to it not panning out quite as well as was originally hoped.

As for why, I can only speculate. The short specs without the caveats
were attractive enough, they got permission to do a free driver, and the
Glamo provided an extra SD controller (though limited by its bus) which
was necessary with the wifi chip requiring one.

> I mean e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of the 
> functionality of such a smartphone.

For fast-paced games you might want to use QVGA mode to alleviate the
bandwidth issues, but IMAO on such a small screen that isn't a bad deal
anyway (for fast-paced games spesifically). Something like scumm
adventure games should be fine in higher resolution, but that isn't a
promise as I don't have a GTA02 myself yet (the order _is_ in :).

Realize that the GTA03 will apparently be dumb framebuffer again, like
GTA01. While that speeds up pure blitting to the screen from the main
memory, do not expect wonders from it either.

Where future devices go, we shall see. The reality is that most high-end
embedded graphics stuff is closed as hell. What with Android and even
Nokia announcing preliminary plans for Linux phones, there are quite
enough high-profile companies doing this stuff with no regard for real
openness (witness Android FAQ and partner list, and Nokia's Maemo).

I for one would like OpenMoko to differentiate in this respect and stay
the course even with the difficulties it may pose.

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Re: The glamo chip and its future

[Yorick Moko]

I have no idea if it will be slow but youtube video's should be possible.
Standard youtube is 320x240 (but they are experimenting with higher
resolution) .
Maybe you would have to encode it to mpeg-4 though, don't know if it will
work through flash.

nice post about the video acceleration:
http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/

y

On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 12:17 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I would like to know more about that too. Especially I would like to
> know how real devices work - are they slow or not? I don't really need
> 3d games or anything, but i don't want my smartphone to be slow.
> Also is it possible in theory to play youtube videos?
>
> On 6/28/08, Michael Stather <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I was a fan of the openmoko idea even when it was announced at first.
> > Now when the first "real" device was announced I was thinking about
> > buying one but then I realized the situaltion with the 3D chip which I
> > read was "a very big design mistake". At least this is what I read,
> > since neither read 2D or 3D acceleration is possible.
> > So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had a much
> > larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release. I mean
> > e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of the
> > functionality of such a smartphone.
> > Unfortunately, in the wiki wish list nobody complained about this and I
> > didn't find anything on the home page, while this is probably the
> > biggest concern of the users as far as what I've read.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Michgael
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
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Re: Fast questions about GTA03

[Neil Brown]

On Saturday June 28, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I was thinking of asking the very same thing.
> When dialing or using a calculator or sending a text message, the glamo
> would only slow us down. Or am I mistaken?
> Maybe it's a very stupid question (I presume if it were possible such a
> trivial feat would already be implemented).

The "glamo" is the video controller.  If you disable the glamo, you
don't get any picture.

NeilBrown

> 
> y
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Atilla Filiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> > Can we just disable glamo with software and use it only when profitable?

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Re: The glamo chip and its future

[prishelec]

I would like to know more about that too. Especially I would like to
know how real devices work - are they slow or not? I don't really need
3d games or anything, but i don't want my smartphone to be slow.
Also is it possible in theory to play youtube videos?

On 6/28/08, Michael Stather <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was a fan of the openmoko idea even when it was announced at first.
> Now when the first "real" device was announced I was thinking about
> buying one but then I realized the situaltion with the 3D chip which I
> read was "a very big design mistake". At least this is what I read,
> since neither read 2D or 3D acceleration is possible.
> So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had a much
> larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release. I mean
> e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of the
> functionality of such a smartphone.
> Unfortunately, in the wiki wish list nobody complained about this and I
> didn't find anything on the home page, while this is probably the
> biggest concern of the users as far as what I've read.
>
> regards
>
> Michgael
>
>
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Openmoko and google trends

[Yorick Moko]

Check google trends:
http://www.google.com/trends?q=Openmoko%2C++FreeRunner&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

I would have expected at least a small spike for the last few days.
Maybe we should all try to actively promote the FreeRunner through a few
channels?
It's in our own interest...

y
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Re: No WLAN AP functionality

[Mikko Rauhala]

la, 2008-06-28 kello 11:31 +0200, Atilla Filiz kirjoitti:
> Why can't we use madwifi? I thought our wifi chips were atheros.

All Atheros are not created equal. Madwifi is for Atheros' a5k series
softmac laptop chips. This is a 6k series hardmac embedded chip.

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Re: Fast questions about GTA03

[Yorick Moko]

I was thinking of asking the very same thing.
When dialing or using a calculator or sending a text message, the glamo
would only slow us down. Or am I mistaken?
Maybe it's a very stupid question (I presume if it were possible such a
trivial feat would already be implemented).

y


On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Atilla Filiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Can we just disable glamo with software and use it only when profitable?
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sean Moss-Pultz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/27/08 Mikko Rauhala wrote:
>> > On pe, 2008-06-27 at 13:56 +0200, Lucas Bonnet wrote:
>> > > > Sean Moss-Pultz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> > >> > > I encourage you to get involved today. We need your help.
>> > Waiting for
>> > >> > > GTA03 is a possibility of course, but keep in mind how long it
>> > took us
>> > >> > > to go from 01 to 02.
>> > > >
>> > > > Sure, how can we help?
>> >
>> > If I may interject, I would presume Sean here is talking about buying
>> > what's available now (instead of next year, even with the GTA03 not
>> > being a major improvement anyway in most respects), and, you know,
>> > running with it.
>>
>> Exactly. We need to sell phones to stay in business and continue these
>> ideas.
>>
>> So think of your USD $399 as a donation, if you like, towards your GTA03
>> ;-)
>>
>>   -Sean
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> -
> Bu mesaj UTF-8 ile kodlanmıştır
> -
> Atilla Filiz
> Technische Universiteit Eindhoven
> Embedded Systems, Master's Programme
> 
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Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)

[Stroller]

On 28 Jun 2008, at 03:05, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:

> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:11:06 +0100 Stroller  
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
>
>>
>> On 27 Jun 2008, at 19:01, Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Can someone explain the rationale for the decision
>>> to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko
>>> to QT based version known as April Software Update (ASU)?
>>
>>
>> Rasterman is the rationale, as far as I can make out.
>
> i had nothing to do with it. i, in fact suggested to keep the  
> current gtk apps
> as-is

I apologise. It just seemed that this change occurred without  
explanation when you came on board. A message you posted some time  
ago evangelising E16 (??) firmed the impression that the new  
environment was your innovation.

> just improve the "desktop environment". others at openmoko insisted  
> even
> on just qtopia - no x11. they wanted qtopia because for them "it  
> worked". we
> ended up with a compromise of a port of qtopia on x11 - but then  
> also needing a
> custom wm.

I have to say that I find it a bit odd running X11 on a mobile phone  
- a WM wouldn't be required without it - when an alternative is  
possible. In fact, as far as I can ascertain an alternative already  
exists. X11 seems logical to me for desktop computers, but not for a  
device which will only ever have one main window on the screen at a  
time. I had mistakenly understood earlier Openmoko builds to be non- 
X11 (i.e. qtopia-ish?)

Stroller.
  

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Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)

[Yorick Moko]

Thanks,
This is the most to the point explenation that I have read so far!

If I could code, I would try help you on the FSO.

On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 8:25 AM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Fwiw, my take on that is @
> http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/
>
> Cheers,
> --
> :M:
>
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Re: No WLAN AP functionality

[Atilla Filiz]

Why can't we use madwifi? I thought our wifi chips were atheros.

On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 1:12 AM, Rod Whitby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Crane, Matthew wrote:
> > But if you can plug a usb wifi stick which the kernel does support AP
> > mode you could then use the internal wifi as the uplink.
>
> I'm finding it difficult to source a cheap usb wifi stick that Linux
> supports in AP mode.  Do you have an example of one that you know works
> in this way, and has Linux drivers available for armel (which
> immediately cuts out any madwifi drivers due to eabi) ?
>
> -- Rod
>
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-
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-
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Embedded Systems, Master's Programme

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Re: Fast questions about GTA03

[Atilla Filiz]

Can we just disable glamo with software and use it only when profitable?

On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sean Moss-Pultz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 6/27/08 Mikko Rauhala wrote:
> > On pe, 2008-06-27 at 13:56 +0200, Lucas Bonnet wrote:
> > > > Sean Moss-Pultz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > >> > > I encourage you to get involved today. We need your help.
> > Waiting for
> > >> > > GTA03 is a possibility of course, but keep in mind how long it
> > took us
> > >> > > to go from 01 to 02.
> > > >
> > > > Sure, how can we help?
> >
> > If I may interject, I would presume Sean here is talking about buying
> > what's available now (instead of next year, even with the GTA03 not
> > being a major improvement anyway in most respects), and, you know,
> > running with it.
>
> Exactly. We need to sell phones to stay in business and continue these
> ideas.
>
> So think of your USD $399 as a donation, if you like, towards your GTA03
> ;-)
>
>   -Sean
>
> ___
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> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



-- 
-
Bu mesaj UTF-8 ile kodlanmıştır
-
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Embedded Systems, Master's Programme

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Re: Let us impact the material world

[Francesco Cat]

There is also a nice feature that could be used with SMS: imagine that
the SMS is automatically shortened (eg by abbreviating words and stuff
like that) than it's compressed before being sent; I tried once and
there should be libraries that could fit the "dictionary" needed for
extraction + 500 characters in 302 chars... It means 2 SMS instead of
3 or more :)

2008/6/28 Paul Wouters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008, Nelson Castillo wrote:
>
>> I think encrypted messages are crucial for freedom. I also think most
>> people don't know how easy it is for others to see what they send
>> through the networks. I cannot wait to see those Encrypted messages
>> traveling free through _their_ networks to deliver _our_ messages.
>
> That means:
>
> - Phase out SMS in favour of IM (SMS char limit makes crypto hard, cheaper 
> too)
> - Use OTR with IM (http://otr.cypherpunks.ca)
>
> I am not sure at the current state of IM clients, but there are
> python bindings for OTR at http://pyotr.pentabarf.de/
>
> I will go at it as soon as I can order my Freerunner in Canada
>
> Paul
>
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Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)

[Cedric Cellier]

-[ Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 08:25:04AM +0200, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer ]
> http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/

Interresting.

Why not post this kind of though here instead of on a blog, BTW ?



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The glamo chip and its future

[Michael Stather]

I was a fan of the openmoko idea even when it was announced at first. 
Now when the first "real" device was announced I was thinking about 
buying one but then I realized the situaltion with the 3D chip which I 
read was "a very big design mistake". At least this is what I read, 
since neither read 2D or 3D acceleration is possible.
So I wonder why this was done that way (since the older model had a much 
larger bandwidth), and whether it's changed for the next release. I mean 
e.g. games (3D games, or emulators) are IMHO an important part of the 
functionality of such a smartphone.
Unfortunately, in the wiki wish list nobody complained about this and I 
didn't find anything on the home page, while this is probably the 
biggest concern of the users as far as what I've read.

regards

Michgael


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