Re: Forking TangoGPS (was: tangoGPS community development, patches)

[Yorick Moko]

best of luck!
i'll try to contribute where I can

y

On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Sebastian Krzyszkowiak  wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 16:05, Joshua Judson Rosen 
> wrote:
> > "arne anka"  writes:
> >>
> >> you are definitely off topic.
> >> this list is neither to insult others at your pleasure nor to discuss
> >> issues with your project or ego.
> >
> > Arne,
> >
> > You're right. So, please forgive the length of this post:
> >
> >> those entirely tangogps related mails are filling up my account and have
> >> nothing to do with openmoko.
> >>
> >> please, stop abusing other projects infrastructure for your personal
> needs.
> >
> > I really hadn't intended this to get this crazy, when I posted
> > asking Marcus what facilities were available to keep up what he's
> > doing upstream and to communicate with the rest of the
> > tangoGPS-hacking community.
> >
> > When I asked those questions, they were intended to be quick and easy
> > to answer--and the expected quick exchange was indeed relevant to the
> > Openmoko community, since there are so many people here who have been
> > using and hacking on tangoGPS (or at least trying to).
> >
> > But it's devolved into high-traffic tiff with upstream just calling
> > people names, and everyone else sharing their *frustrations*.
> >
> > I don't know if Marcus has actually *watched* (or at least listened to)
> > that video that he referenced earlier in the thread (in message-ID
> > <2010010653.776db...@acer>, if anyone actually wants to go re-read
> > the whole discussion in gmane or something):
> >
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSFDm3UYkeE
> >
> >
> > ... but we all should watch it--it's pretty good.
> >
> >
> > As they say, the community mailing-list isn't a group therapy session.
> > It's clear that we're not getting anywhere, anyway.
> >
> >
> > So, here goes: I'm forking tangoGPS.
> >
> > And this doesn't make me a `poisonous person'. This fork is being done
> > with all possible respect, and I do still hope that it will be on the
> > best possible terms--perhaps like when EGCS forked from GCC, or when
> > people `fork' the Linux kernel to work on new subsystems: a good-natured
> > fork to do more `experimental' exploration that may not be immediately
> > possible or appropriate for Marcus in tangoGPS. Marcus will be free to
> > incorporate whatever work we do on this new fork into future releases
> > of tangoGPS, if he likes--on whatever timeline he likes; he'll also
> > be free to ignore the parts that he doesn't like. As will everyone else.
> >
> > We're going to have a go at integrating libgps, for example.
> >
> >
> > I'm going to try to do my best to provide a sense of leadership and
> > direction on this new project (let's call it "foxtrotGPS"--I'm sure we
> > can find many reasons for that name; I already have a slew of my own :)),
> > and to be responsive when people submit patches for review (and hopefully
> > inclusion). Even for people whose patches don't go upstream, we'll have
> > a Bazaar VCS repository that you can use to keep track of what we're
> > doing upstream and help maintain your patches (branches) going forward.
> >
> > If anyone's interested in relevant public discussion on foxtrotGPS,
> > we have the foss-gps mailing list hosted by the folks at OSGeo:
> >
> >http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS-GPS
> >
> > Thank you, Risto, for asking them create it :)
> >
> >
> > Marcus: if you would like to talk about why I feel the need to fork
> > your project and am proceeding despite my afore-mentioned reluctance--
> > and what, if anything, it means to you--we can talk about that privately.
> >
> > Let me know, and I'll give you my telephone-number--e-mail just doesn't
> > seem to have enough bandwidth for us; I'd *really* prefer if we could
> > keep things cordial and professional between our two projects.
> >
> >
> > So, here we go. It'll be an adventure.
> > We can dance if we want to.
> >
> >
> > I know some people are probably going to be very excited by this news,
> > but it takes a couple of days to get a fork properly bootstrapped--
> > it's not *just* `run through the codebase and change names' :)
> >
> > So please be patient, let your passions cool a *little* bit,
> > and there will be something to show this weekend.
> >
> >
> > Thank you, all.
> >
> > (And thank you, Marcus, especially!)
> >
> >
> > -rozzin.
> >
> > --
> > "Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr."
>
> Thanks, I was waiting for that since start of that discussion. If I
> were more interested in GPS apps, then I would do that myself ;) But
> doing something I won't be able to continue just to show something to
> someone would be a non-sense.
>
> Code available in some decent version control system is a must have to
> me when I'm contributing to some project, and in my opinion not having
> such SCM is good reason to fork.
>
> I wish both of projects good, as I like TangoGPS, but I don't like
> fact, that it doesn't have any public SCM ava

Re: qtmoko v21

[Shashank Bharadwaj]

On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 2:01 AM, Radek Polak  wrote:
> Hi,
> today we have also new stable qtmoko images still based on andy-tracking
> 2.6.29 kernel. It can be dowloaded from usual location [1].

Hi, Thank you so much for this release. I tested SMS a couple of times
and was able to receive all of them! Thanks!
My notes:
* Tried the GoogleContactSync from the feeds and it works great.
* Wifi - was able to connect to my Wifi router and browse using arora browser
* Call volume is OK for me.

>> forgot this one:
>
> Also forgot important note - if the GSM does not register (you will be in the
> screen with big dialer keyboard), use POWER button to "Restart QtExtended"
> until registration is sucessful.
>
> This happens only with 2.6.29 kernel, no idea yet why.

The first few boots were no problem, today I rebooted my phone again,
but was not able to get the GSM to register. Previously the
registration happened with one or two QtExtended restarts. I have
tried more than 10 times now without any luck :(
Any ideas where to start looking?

-- 
Regards
Shashank

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[QtMoko Bluetooth]

[Pablo Miño]

Folks,

My Neo appears like a computer, what class code should I set for it to
appear like a mobile phone?
Thank you very much.

-- 
Pablo Miño

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Re: [QtMoko] How to install tangoGPS?

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 00:54:57 +0300
Margo  wrote:

> >
> > Can you telnet or nc to localhost port 2947, i.e. either:
> >
> >  telnet localhost 2947
> > or
> >  nc localhost 2947
> >
> > and if this succeeds, type 'r' followed by enter. You should see
> > somthing like this:
> >
> > ~$ telnet localhost 2947
> > Trying ::1...
> > Trying 127.0.0.1...
> > Connected to localhost.
> > Escape character is '^]'.
> > r
> > GPSD,R=1
> > $GPRMC,132008.000,A,4340.8841,N,00713.9172,E,3.60,221.79,271109,,,D*6B
> > $GPRMC,132009.000,A,4340.8829,N,00713.9156,E,7.42,221.99,271109,,,D*68
> > .
> > .
> > .
> 
> It only says:
> GPSD,R=1

Does a simple:
  cat /dev/ttySAC1
show NMEA output?

If no, is your gps powered up?

If yes, what are the contents of /etc/default/gpsd ? 





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Re: [QtMoko] How to install tangoGPS?

[Margo]

>
> Can you telnet or nc to localhost port 2947, i.e. either:
>
>  telnet localhost 2947
> or
>  nc localhost 2947
>
> and if this succeeds, type 'r' followed by enter. You should see
> somthing like this:
>
> ~$ telnet localhost 2947
> Trying ::1...
> Trying 127.0.0.1...
> Connected to localhost.
> Escape character is '^]'.
> r
> GPSD,R=1
> $GPRMC,132008.000,A,4340.8841,N,00713.9172,E,3.60,221.79,271109,,,D*6B
> $GPRMC,132009.000,A,4340.8829,N,00713.9156,E,7.42,221.99,271109,,,D*68
> .
> .
> .

It only says:
GPSD,R=1



> If you have internet connection on your QtMoko, you can try the
> following too: in the config put in 88.191.100.245 as IP for the GPSD
> and hit the change button. You should get GPS data for the south of
> France.

Yes, that shows me that i'm in France.

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Re: drm/glamo Re: glamo backlight

[mobi phil]

Thanks Thomas!!!

works great...  guys try out the tuxpaint   (apt-get install tuxpaint) ...
so sweet...




-- 
rgrds,
mobi phil

being mobile, but including technology
http://mobiphil.com
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Re: [QtMoko] How to install tangoGPS?

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 00:27:54 +0300
Margo  wrote:

> >
> > Hi Margo,
> >
> > which version is your gpsd? (gpsd -V) From 2.92 onward the API
> > changed and the next version of tangoGPS will handle this. In
> > general you can simply downgrade gpsd to <= 2.90 without loosing
> > anything.
> >
> > Marcus
> >
> >
> 
> It's 2.37

Can you telnet or nc to localhost port 2947, i.e. either:

  telnet localhost 2947
or
  nc localhost 2947

and if this succeeds, type 'r' followed by enter. You should see
somthing like this:

~$ telnet localhost 2947
Trying ::1...
Trying 127.0.0.1...
Connected to localhost.
Escape character is '^]'.
r
GPSD,R=1
$GPRMC,132008.000,A,4340.8841,N,00713.9172,E,3.60,221.79,271109,,,D*6B
$GPRMC,132009.000,A,4340.8829,N,00713.9156,E,7.42,221.99,271109,,,D*68
.
.
.

Marcus





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Re: [QtMoko] How to install tangoGPS?

[Margo]

>
> Hi Margo,
>
> which version is your gpsd? (gpsd -V) From 2.92 onward the API changed
> and the next version of tangoGPS will handle this. In general you can
> simply downgrade gpsd to <= 2.90 without loosing anything.
>
> Marcus
>
>

It's 2.37

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Re: [QtMoko] Bug 1024

[Yann SLADEK]

As said before, by modifying parameter 'Active' from' never' to 'always' 
and then reboot the phone

Yann
> Yann SLADEK  writes:
>
>> With QtMoko, I cannot go up to 20h, after modifying
>> /opt/qtmoko/etc/default/Trolltech/Modem.conf
>>  
> I do not use qtmoko but how did you modify Modem.conf?
>
>
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>


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Re: [QtMoko] Bug 1024

[Yann SLADEK]

Hi,

I can't tell, count I use my FR for 30min a day for calls, maybe 
30min-1h a day for missed calls and voicemail checking + shr playing :))

Same for QtMoko

Yann
(just a question: 70h suspension included? if yes how many hours of 
suspension?)

d

On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Yann SLADEK > wrote:


Hi list,

for the past few weeks, I tried both QtMoko and SHR with my FR (#1024
fixed by myself)

With SHR, modifying /etc/frameworkd.conf did the trick and I can
use my
FR for approx. 65-70h in a normal way (few calls, text, wifi just for
fun,etc..)
With QtMoko, I cannot go up to 20h, after modifying
/opt/qtmoko/etc/default/Trolltech/Modem.conf

Anyone has the same problem ? Something else has to be done ?

Thanks

Yann

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Re: [QtMoko] How to install tangoGPS?

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 23:20:22 +0300
Margo  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> How should I install tangoGPS on qtmoko? I did:
> 
> # apt-get install libexif12 libcurl3-gnutls libgconf2-4 gpsd
> # sed -i 's/DEVICES=""/DEVICES="\/dev\/ttySAC1"/' /etc/default/gpsd
> # sed -i
> 's/START_DAEMON="false"/START_DAEMON="true"/' /etc/default/gpsd #
> wget
> http://www.tangogps.org/downloads/tangogps_0.99.2-1_armel.deb-Openmoko
> -O tangogps_0.99.2-1_armel.deb # dpkg -i tangogps_0.99.2-1_armel.deb
> # reboot
> 
> But tangoGPS can't get the fix. Did I miss something? Do I have to
> change something in tangoGPS settings? I'm using v20. I had the same
> problem with v18. Previously I was using the ghislain's installer
> images. These had tangoGPS installed by default and it was working
> fine there.

Hi Margo,

which version is your gpsd? (gpsd -V) From 2.92 onward the API changed
and the next version of tangoGPS will handle this. In general you can
simply downgrade gpsd to <= 2.90 without loosing anything.

Marcus



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Re: drm/glamo Re: glamo backlight

[Thomas White]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 02:36:56 +0200
mobi phil  wrote:

> after successful booting and running  the gdrm-waitq example I got on
> the log:
> glamo-drm: Fence seq#157 was not signalled
> (with increasing #ref numbers)
> and usb network seems to be frozen
> 
> after second reboot and running intensive directfb test applications
> problem cannot be reproduced...

That would indicate that Glamo's interrupt (or the kernel's handling of
it) is misbehaving.  It tries pretty hard to recover from that
situation, but obviously not hard enough.  I've committed a patch which
will make it try a little harder still.  Hopefully it was just a glitch.

> directfb and other frambuffer applications run on /dev/fb0, however
> the old bug with display shift to the right is again present.
> (everything is shifted ~150 pixels to the left)

You're right - the patch which fixed that got lost somewhere.  I've
re-applied it in the latest version, so if you could test it, that'd be
great.

Thanks a lot,

Tom

-- 
Thomas White 

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[QtMoko] How to install tangoGPS?

[Margo]

Hi,

How should I install tangoGPS on qtmoko? I did:

# apt-get install libexif12 libcurl3-gnutls libgconf2-4 gpsd
# sed -i 's/DEVICES=""/DEVICES="\/dev\/ttySAC1"/' /etc/default/gpsd
# sed -i 's/START_DAEMON="false"/START_DAEMON="true"/' /etc/default/gpsd
# wget http://www.tangogps.org/downloads/tangogps_0.99.2-1_armel.deb-Openmoko
-O tangogps_0.99.2-1_armel.deb
# dpkg -i tangogps_0.99.2-1_armel.deb
# reboot

But tangoGPS can't get the fix. Did I miss something? Do I have to
change something in tangoGPS settings? I'm using v20. I had the same
problem with v18. Previously I was using the ghislain's installer
images. These had tangoGPS installed by default and it was working
fine there.

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Re: [QtMoko] Bug 1024

[Margo]

On 13 April 2010 22:18, Yann SLADEK  wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> for the past few weeks, I tried both QtMoko and SHR with my FR (#1024
> fixed by myself)
>
> With SHR, modifying /etc/frameworkd.conf did the trick and I can use my
> FR for approx. 65-70h in a normal way (few calls, text, wifi just for
> fun,etc..)
> With QtMoko, I cannot go up to 20h, after modifying
> /opt/qtmoko/etc/default/Trolltech/Modem.conf
>
> Anyone has the same problem ? Something else has to be done ?
>

I have #1024 fixed and I changed "Active=never" to "Active=always" in
/opt/qtmoko/etc/default/Trolltech/Modem.conf
The battery life is about 3 days.

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Re: [QtMoko] Bug 1024

[Timo Juhani Lindfors]

Yann SLADEK  writes:
> With QtMoko, I cannot go up to 20h, after modifying 
> /opt/qtmoko/etc/default/Trolltech/Modem.conf

I do not use qtmoko but how did you modify Modem.conf?


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Re: [QtMoko] Bug 1024

[Risto H. Kurppa]

On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 10:18 PM, Yann SLADEK  wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> for the past few weeks, I tried both QtMoko and SHR with my FR (#1024
> fixed by myself)
>
> With SHR, modifying /etc/frameworkd.conf did the trick and I can use my
> FR for approx. 65-70h in a normal way (few calls, text, wifi just for
> fun,etc..)
> With QtMoko, I cannot go up to 20h, after modifying
> /opt/qtmoko/etc/default/Trolltech/Modem.conf
>
> Anyone has the same problem ? Something else has to be done ?

Same here, Debian gives me days, qtmoko ~1 day


r

-- 
| risto h. kurppa
| risto at kurppa dot fi
| http://risto.kurppa.fi

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Re: [QtMoko] Bug 1024

[Davide Scaini]

(just a question: 70h suspension included? if yes how many hours of
suspension?)
d

On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Yann SLADEK  wrote:

> Hi list,
>
> for the past few weeks, I tried both QtMoko and SHR with my FR (#1024
> fixed by myself)
>
> With SHR, modifying /etc/frameworkd.conf did the trick and I can use my
> FR for approx. 65-70h in a normal way (few calls, text, wifi just for
> fun,etc..)
> With QtMoko, I cannot go up to 20h, after modifying
> /opt/qtmoko/etc/default/Trolltech/Modem.conf
>
> Anyone has the same problem ? Something else has to be done ?
>
> Thanks
>
> Yann
>
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[QtMoko] Bug 1024

[Yann SLADEK]

Hi list,

for the past few weeks, I tried both QtMoko and SHR with my FR (#1024 
fixed by myself)

With SHR, modifying /etc/frameworkd.conf did the trick and I can use my 
FR for approx. 65-70h in a normal way (few calls, text, wifi just for 
fun,etc..)
With QtMoko, I cannot go up to 20h, after modifying 
/opt/qtmoko/etc/default/Trolltech/Modem.conf

Anyone has the same problem ? Something else has to be done ?

Thanks

Yann

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Re: [qtmoko] regression in power management (was: qtmoko v21)

[Radek Polak]

Alfa21 wrote:

> fine,
> I've opened a ticket on mantis about this:
> http://bugs.qtmoko.org/view.php?id=128

No one has patch now? If no i will take a look but i need some time (maybe 
little break). In meanwhile there is IMO new feature in my git that can be 
used as workaround.

I have added power management options when screen is locked. I use it that i 
disable suspend for battery and power supply and set 20s interval for suspend 
when screen is locked.

You will be no longer bothered with dimming screen and unwanted suspends. When 
you want no longer work with Neo, just hit the lock button and it will suspend 
after 20s.

http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/39cca6cdb72559ae241e7c0783ebc80d.png

Regards

Radek

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Re: Forking TangoGPS (was: tangoGPS community development, patches)

[Sebastian Krzyszkowiak]

On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 16:05, Joshua Judson Rosen  wrote:
> "arne anka"  writes:
>>
>> you are definitely off topic.
>> this list is neither to insult others at your pleasure nor to discuss
>> issues with your project or ego.
>
> Arne,
>
> You're right. So, please forgive the length of this post:
>
>> those entirely tangogps related mails are filling up my account and have
>> nothing to do with openmoko.
>>
>> please, stop abusing other projects infrastructure for your personal needs.
>
> I really hadn't intended this to get this crazy, when I posted
> asking Marcus what facilities were available to keep up what he's
> doing upstream and to communicate with the rest of the
> tangoGPS-hacking community.
>
> When I asked those questions, they were intended to be quick and easy
> to answer--and the expected quick exchange was indeed relevant to the
> Openmoko community, since there are so many people here who have been
> using and hacking on tangoGPS (or at least trying to).
>
> But it's devolved into high-traffic tiff with upstream just calling
> people names, and everyone else sharing their *frustrations*.
>
> I don't know if Marcus has actually *watched* (or at least listened to)
> that video that he referenced earlier in the thread (in message-ID
> <2010010653.776db...@acer>, if anyone actually wants to go re-read
> the whole discussion in gmane or something):
>
>    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSFDm3UYkeE
>
>
> ... but we all should watch it--it's pretty good.
>
>
> As they say, the community mailing-list isn't a group therapy session.
> It's clear that we're not getting anywhere, anyway.
>
>
> So, here goes: I'm forking tangoGPS.
>
> And this doesn't make me a `poisonous person'. This fork is being done
> with all possible respect, and I do still hope that it will be on the
> best possible terms--perhaps like when EGCS forked from GCC, or when
> people `fork' the Linux kernel to work on new subsystems: a good-natured
> fork to do more `experimental' exploration that may not be immediately
> possible or appropriate for Marcus in tangoGPS. Marcus will be free to
> incorporate whatever work we do on this new fork into future releases
> of tangoGPS, if he likes--on whatever timeline he likes; he'll also
> be free to ignore the parts that he doesn't like. As will everyone else.
>
> We're going to have a go at integrating libgps, for example.
>
>
> I'm going to try to do my best to provide a sense of leadership and
> direction on this new project (let's call it "foxtrotGPS"--I'm sure we
> can find many reasons for that name; I already have a slew of my own :)),
> and to be responsive when people submit patches for review (and hopefully
> inclusion). Even for people whose patches don't go upstream, we'll have
> a Bazaar VCS repository that you can use to keep track of what we're
> doing upstream and help maintain your patches (branches) going forward.
>
> If anyone's interested in relevant public discussion on foxtrotGPS,
> we have the foss-gps mailing list hosted by the folks at OSGeo:
>
>    http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS-GPS
>
> Thank you, Risto, for asking them create it :)
>
>
> Marcus: if you would like to talk about why I feel the need to fork
> your project and am proceeding despite my afore-mentioned reluctance--
> and what, if anything, it means to you--we can talk about that privately.
>
> Let me know, and I'll give you my telephone-number--e-mail just doesn't
> seem to have enough bandwidth for us; I'd *really* prefer if we could
> keep things cordial and professional between our two projects.
>
>
> So, here we go. It'll be an adventure.
> We can dance if we want to.
>
>
> I know some people are probably going to be very excited by this news,
> but it takes a couple of days to get a fork properly bootstrapped--
> it's not *just* `run through the codebase and change names' :)
>
> So please be patient, let your passions cool a *little* bit,
> and there will be something to show this weekend.
>
>
> Thank you, all.
>
> (And thank you, Marcus, especially!)
>
>
> -rozzin.
>
> --
> "Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr."

Thanks, I was waiting for that since start of that discussion. If I
were more interested in GPS apps, then I would do that myself ;) But
doing something I won't be able to continue just to show something to
someone would be a non-sense.

Code available in some decent version control system is a must have to
me when I'm contributing to some project, and in my opinion not having
such SCM is good reason to fork.

I wish both of projects good, as I like TangoGPS, but I don't like
fact, that it doesn't have any public SCM available for read only
access. I hope everything from FoxtrotGPS that can be merged into
TangoGPS will be merged, and thanks to that both projects will become
better.

Forks can be both positive and negative, it all depends on people.

-- 
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak
dos

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Forking TangoGPS (was: tangoGPS community development, patches)

[Joshua Judson Rosen]

"arne anka"  writes:
>
> you are definitely off topic.
> this list is neither to insult others at your pleasure nor to discuss  
> issues with your project or ego.

Arne,

You're right. So, please forgive the length of this post:

> those entirely tangogps related mails are filling up my account and have  
> nothing to do with openmoko.
> 
> please, stop abusing other projects infrastructure for your personal needs.

I really hadn't intended this to get this crazy, when I posted
asking Marcus what facilities were available to keep up what he's
doing upstream and to communicate with the rest of the
tangoGPS-hacking community.

When I asked those questions, they were intended to be quick and easy
to answer--and the expected quick exchange was indeed relevant to the
Openmoko community, since there are so many people here who have been
using and hacking on tangoGPS (or at least trying to).

But it's devolved into high-traffic tiff with upstream just calling
people names, and everyone else sharing their *frustrations*.

I don't know if Marcus has actually *watched* (or at least listened to)
that video that he referenced earlier in the thread (in message-ID
<2010010653.776db...@acer>, if anyone actually wants to go re-read
the whole discussion in gmane or something):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSFDm3UYkeE


... but we all should watch it--it's pretty good.


As they say, the community mailing-list isn't a group therapy session.
It's clear that we're not getting anywhere, anyway.


So, here goes: I'm forking tangoGPS.

And this doesn't make me a `poisonous person'. This fork is being done
with all possible respect, and I do still hope that it will be on the
best possible terms--perhaps like when EGCS forked from GCC, or when
people `fork' the Linux kernel to work on new subsystems: a good-natured
fork to do more `experimental' exploration that may not be immediately
possible or appropriate for Marcus in tangoGPS. Marcus will be free to
incorporate whatever work we do on this new fork into future releases
of tangoGPS, if he likes--on whatever timeline he likes; he'll also
be free to ignore the parts that he doesn't like. As will everyone else.

We're going to have a go at integrating libgps, for example.


I'm going to try to do my best to provide a sense of leadership and
direction on this new project (let's call it "foxtrotGPS"--I'm sure we
can find many reasons for that name; I already have a slew of my own :)),
and to be responsive when people submit patches for review (and hopefully
inclusion). Even for people whose patches don't go upstream, we'll have
a Bazaar VCS repository that you can use to keep track of what we're
doing upstream and help maintain your patches (branches) going forward.

If anyone's interested in relevant public discussion on foxtrotGPS,
we have the foss-gps mailing list hosted by the folks at OSGeo:

http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS-GPS

Thank you, Risto, for asking them create it :)


Marcus: if you would like to talk about why I feel the need to fork
your project and am proceeding despite my afore-mentioned reluctance--
and what, if anything, it means to you--we can talk about that privately.

Let me know, and I'll give you my telephone-number--e-mail just doesn't
seem to have enough bandwidth for us; I'd *really* prefer if we could
keep things cordial and professional between our two projects.


So, here we go. It'll be an adventure.
We can dance if we want to.


I know some people are probably going to be very excited by this news,
but it takes a couple of days to get a fork properly bootstrapped--
it's not *just* `run through the codebase and change names' :)

So please be patient, let your passions cool a *little* bit,
and there will be something to show this weekend.


Thank you, all.

(And thank you, Marcus, especially!)


-rozzin.

-- 
"Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr."


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Re: project customer

[Jon 'maddog' Hall]

>sorry for this. I am just a typical German being always a bit on the  
>negative-criticising side of life ;-)

Some of my best friends are German.

>I am sure we can have a beer together, Maddog, I am really not the
>idiot as it may sound here.

I recognize that.

>Thanks for your status report about the Brazilian university etc.
>I agree with you, it's no good idea to invest any more time or even  
>money in the re-production of GTA02, I honor you give such a honest  
>advice.

I still support the GTA02-core project, but for the goals that Werner
has advocated, to get a tool-set that is completely FOSS so that people
around the world can design with itnot necessarily to produce a
phone for mass production.

If we can find a way to finance the design, and to make sure that it
would be finished and go to market, I think the University would be more
than willing to help with the project, including using their influence
with vendors to get parts.   Be aware that even "getting parts" takes a
lot of time and effort.  The university has an office with people in it
that makes contracts with vendors, submits grant proposals, signs NDAs,
etc.  Sometimes they even have to take money out of their budget to join
vendor's "programs".

But they have a lot of things the project could use, even more than the
SMT line (which is the same type of SMT line, by the way, that LG uses
to make their phones).  Ovens to do thermal testing, vibrators to do
vibration testing, machines to do certification testing, and expertise
in all of these fields.  The university also has the ability to make
integrated circuits, and has made wifi radio chips in the past.

md


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Re: The Origin of the Freerunner Shape!

[Joseph Reeves]

Well I know that, but a fingernail does the job just as well. In fact,
own the phone for a while and gravity will do the job for you.

Sean said, however, that there was a good story about choosing a
guitar pick as the case opener...



On 13 April 2010 14:01, Timo Juhani Lindfors  wrote:
> Joseph Reeves  writes:
>> Has there been any explanation of the guitar pick that shipped with
>> the GTA01? If I remember correctly, Sean said that it was an
>
> It's for opening the case.
>
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Re: The Origin of the Freerunner Shape!

[Timo Juhani Lindfors]

Joseph Reeves  writes:
> Has there been any explanation of the guitar pick that shipped with
> the GTA01? If I remember correctly, Sean said that it was an

It's for opening the case.

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Re: project customer

[Jon 'maddog' Hall]

>What I'd aim for are "mature" chips. They're not brand-new, their
>quirks and shortcomings are known, documentation may have leaked,
>someone may even have written drivers for them already, you can
>get them in small and large quantities, they still have many years
>of life in them, and you can already get a glimpse of the roadmap
>beyond that chip.

I might agree to "early maturity", but in this day electronics age fast,
and the chip has to be both "early mature" and popular to keep in
production.

md


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Re: The Origin of the Freerunner Shape!

[Joseph Reeves]

Has there been any explanation of the guitar pick that shipped with
the GTA01? If I remember correctly, Sean said that it was an
interesting story that he'd tell one day. I never saw the follow up
though.

Cheers, Joseph





On 13 April 2010 13:46, Werner Almesberger  wrote:
> Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
>> I have finally found where the shape and visual appearance of the
>> Neo1973 and Freerunner come from:
>
> Close :-) I've been told that the case originally came from a
> phone intended for the Chinese Olympics. The rounded form would
> mimick the outline of the Olympic rings. This probably also
> explains the rugged design.
>
> As far as I know, that phone never made it to production and the
> Openmoko project then "inherited" the device, radically changed
> its internals, and so on.
>
> - Werner
>
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Re: The Origin of the Freerunner Shape!

[Werner Almesberger]

Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
> I have finally found where the shape and visual appearance of the
> Neo1973 and Freerunner come from:

Close :-) I've been told that the case originally came from a
phone intended for the Chinese Olympics. The rounded form would
mimick the outline of the Olympic rings. This probably also
explains the rugged design.

As far as I know, that phone never made it to production and the
Openmoko project then "inherited" the device, radically changed
its internals, and so on.

- Werner

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Re: project customer

[Werner Almesberger]

Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote:
> But if you are making your phone out of "beginning of life" components
> that other people are also using and that have a bit of life to them,
> you can sometimes get some components without having to buy 10 million
> of them

Hmm, there is an opportunity around "beginning of life", namely
when the product doesn't have (enough) big (enough) customers yet.
At that time there's a chance to become a partner who makes a
reference design to help to spread the word.

After that, it gets difficult for a while, until the big guys have
had their fill. Let's call the stage of life that follows "mature".

What I'd aim for are "mature" chips. They're not brand-new, their
quirks and shortcomings are known, documentation may have leaked,
someone may even have written drivers for them already, you can
get them in small and large quantities, they still have many years
of life in them, and you can already get a glimpse of the roadmap
beyond that chip.

Not that I would sneer at a good opportunity to use some fancy
new chip, but I'd make sure not to depend too much on this.

- Werner

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Re: The Origin of the Freerunner Shape!

[Yorick Moko]

thanks and lol

On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Vladimir Koutny  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
> > I have finally found where the shape and visual appearance of the
> > Neo1973 and Freerunner come from:
>
> For those without google earth:
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=54.897579,23.882423&z=16&t=h&hl=en
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > BR,
> > Nikolaus
> >
> >
> > 
> > Mobile Office Solutions
> > by Golden Delicious Computers GmbH&Co. KG
> > Buchenstr. 3
> > D-82041 Oberhaching
> > +49-89-54290367
> > http://www.handheld-linux.com
> >
> > AG München, HRA 89571
> > VAT DE253626266
> > Komplementär:
> > Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH
> > Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602
> > Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller
> >
> > Digital Tools for Independent People
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iJwEAQECAAYFAkvEJoYACgkQutgEj9ZLuzQ2zQQAkxpE25jUlTtcdplgpNggCcP/
> aDmwpCEQvFs4DHBXKJNbk1a9lmjilgc+jcVLr4RnRbe/cf6yfrYfcB5phM+8eSj3
> dfaLlpsznY+mCLTCSWLQzctT5eCSPazt1UuvocLX35zhWbi7m9CXUGSjK40AKpxl
> vEc+w2R+kNM1N9BiJFs=
> =a29Q
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
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Re: how to contribute to open source projects

[Rui Miguel Silva Seabra]

You don't have to let anyone in, that's your power :)

But you're creating artificial barriers to participation (no public
read-only SCM -- at the very least -- so people can work on their
patches and adapt to changes in main trunk until they get their patches
just right, keeping "aces up your sleeve", etc...)

You say you do that because of forks, but that behaviour's precisely
what incentivates forks :)

Rui

Em 12-04-2010 22:55, Marcus Bauer escreveu:
> 
> Hello Rui,
> 
> you certainly know that I value your opinion a lot. 
> 
> Just the other day there was a storm going on about a remark of Scott
> James Remnant from Ubuntu who is an outstanding developer, very much
> committed to advancing Ubuntu. People who have never done any
> contribution flooded the bugzilla and flamed him.
> 
> Foul behaviour needs to be sanctioned, otherwise it ruins the whole
> basket of apples. User experience is key. 
> 
> Actually I have received several supportive emails today from people
> that have similar amounts (or more) of Google hits in connection with
> Openmoko than I do have. As wrong as it is to go for weeks to argue
> with these people it is to let it go through without response.
> 
> There were at least three other projects in the last four years with a
> similar scope than tangoGPS. Where were the people complaining about
> not being able to participate in the development of tangoGPS when those
> projects were open for participation, where are their contributions? 
> 
> Foul play needs to be clearly identified and pointed out. I rather
> doubt that those people have got plenty of invitations today to join
> other projects but I'd be happy if that would be the case.
> 
> I don't know what your current main project is, but feel free to invite
> them. Let me know in 4 years if they are still actively contributing
> and I'll cover myself in ashes :-)
> 
> Have fun with them and please take them away from me and thousands
> of happy tangoGPS users and integrate them in your projets :p
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 21:17:30 +0100
> Rui Miguel Silva Seabra  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Marcus,
>>
>> Reading your comments, I'd say you're quickly running several steps of
>> "How to destroy your community" - http://lwn.net/Articles/370157/
>>
>> I won't go into the details of listing which is which, and please note
>> that my felling on that is *PURELY* based upon your emails and not on
>> what others claim or feel or actually passed through.
>>
>> Rui
>>
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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

[Alishams Hassam]

On Tue, 2010-04-13 at 11:43 +0200, arne anka wrote:
> you are definitely off topic.
> this list is neither to insult others at your pleasure nor to discuss  
> issues with your project or ego.
> 
> those entirely tangogps related mails are filling up my account and have  
> nothing to do with openmoko.
> 
> please, stop abusing other projects infrastructure for your personal needs.
> 
No, you're at least one thread too early. This discussion has been
(partly) about setting up that kind of infrastructure for tangogps. It
was originally a program for Openmoko phones and its business has always
been discussed here (afaik). In fact, only relatively recently has there
been much use outside the freerunner community. I would agree that it
needs its own infrastructure or if it's forked that fork should- but
right not this thread is appropriate here. 

And Yorick, I wholeheartedly agree with your analysis. 


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Re: The Origin of the Freerunner Shape!

[Patryk Benderz]

Dnia 2010-04-13, wto o godzinie 10:08 +0200, Vladimir Koutny pisze:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
> > I have finally found where the shape and visual appearance of the
> > Neo1973 and Freerunner come from:
> 
> For those without google earth:
> 
> http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=54.897579,23.882423&z=16&t=h&hl=en
Thanks Vladimir

-- 
Patryk "LeadMan" Benderz
Linux Registered User #377521
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail 
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


Email secured by Check Point

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Re: Now someone REALLY has to help me!!

[Helge Hafting]

Märta wrote:

> As I’ve understand you can
> modify the Frerunners code by writing scripts into the phones terminal. Is
> that correct, you don’t need a linux computer to be able to do these tweaks
> (for example setting the time)?
> 

While a linux computer is nice to have, it is not necessary. There are 
several other ways:

* Use the phone itself. Run the "terminal" program and use the tiny
   on-screen keyboard. You can do anything, but that keyboard
   is perhaps too small for doing much. Setting the time should
   be ok.

* Use the phone itself and the "terminal" program, and a real
   keyboard. The keyboard can connect via usb or bluetooth. This
   require some configuration first.

* Use a computer that don't run linux.
Using windows and putty:
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_and_Windows
Using a mac:
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MacOS_X


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Re: project customers

[Werner Almesberger]

Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> if it's hard to communicate - you don't have a sales point.

Yup, that's why I wouldn't belabour that angle for now. Whether and
when the time for selling on open software alone will come depends
on how constrained people feel with the non-open choices, and how
many indirect benefits they get.

For now, I'll be happy with the niche of project customers who need
to tweak the hardware or who already understand why they cannot
afford a closed system.

That said, such a phone wouldn't have to be free from appeal to the
mass market. It should definitely be as attractive as possible, but
within reason.

> sure - but it seems those project customers want to feed off a stable supply
> line

Stability is indeed crucial. I hope to be able to compensate with
flexibility what we lack in sheer momentum. E.g., if you get, say,
Motorola to make a design for you, and then Motorola decides to
shut down or sell off that business unit, then you're left with
pretty much nothing, no matter what your contracts say.

With an open design, no mattern what happens with the makers of it,
you still have the design - down to the last detail - and most of
the information needed to produce it. You may still fail to recover
from a breakdown in your supply, but your chances are vastly better.

Also, since the supply is likely to be spread over multiple
companies and individuals (who, in the Open world, enjoy a great
deal of mobility) catastrophic failures that wipe out everything
are less likely.

Now, it remains to be seen whether prospective project customers
will agree with these arguments or whether they prefer to stick
with the traditional view and try to partner with companies that
are too big to fail.

In terms of numbers, I think cost levels out pretty well already
at only a few kunits. If you're competing on the last 5%, you're
already in the wrong game.

> i know that to you, or to many
> freedom advocates all this "fancy eyecandy, sexy design, high end components
> etc." seems all irrelevant

Heh, yet here I am, still using my sleek little Samsung X-830 as
my daily phone, while keeping the ugly pucks in the lab :)

The thing with bleeding edge components is that they cost you a
lot (in various ways) at very little gain. Yes, you may get that
extra push for today's fashionable effect, but by the time you
hit the market, fashion will have changed. Better find your own
style that doesn't come from the manuals of the Gigahertz war :-)

- Werner

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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

[Alfa21-mobile]

On martedì 13 aprile 2010 11:43:19, arne anka wrote:
> you are definitely off topic.
> this list is neither to insult others at your pleasure nor to discuss  
> issues with your project or ego.
> 
> those entirely tangogps related mails are filling up my account and have  
> nothing to do with openmoko.
> 
> please, stop abusing other projects infrastructure for your personal needs.
> 

full quote,definitely.
regards
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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

[arne anka]

you are definitely off topic.
this list is neither to insult others at your pleasure nor to discuss  
issues with your project or ego.

those entirely tangogps related mails are filling up my account and have  
nothing to do with openmoko.

please, stop abusing other projects infrastructure for your personal needs.

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Re: The Origin of the Freerunner Shape!

[Vladimir Koutny]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
> I have finally found where the shape and visual appearance of the
> Neo1973 and Freerunner come from:

For those without google earth:

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=54.897579,23.882423&z=16&t=h&hl=en


> 
> 
> 
> 
> BR,
> Nikolaus
> 
> 
> 
> Mobile Office Solutions
> by Golden Delicious Computers GmbH&Co. KG
> Buchenstr. 3
> D-82041 Oberhaching
> +49-89-54290367
> http://www.handheld-linux.com
> 
> AG München, HRA 89571
> VAT DE253626266
> Komplementär:
> Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH
> Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602
> Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller
> 
> Digital Tools for Independent People
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iJwEAQECAAYFAkvEJoYACgkQutgEj9ZLuzQ2zQQAkxpE25jUlTtcdplgpNggCcP/
aDmwpCEQvFs4DHBXKJNbk1a9lmjilgc+jcVLr4RnRbe/cf6yfrYfcB5phM+8eSj3
dfaLlpsznY+mCLTCSWLQzctT5eCSPazt1UuvocLX35zhWbi7m9CXUGSjK40AKpxl
vEc+w2R+kNM1N9BiJFs=
=a29Q
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: The Origin of the Freerunner Shape!

[Xavier Cremaschi]

:P funny

PS : kmz = google earth file

Le 13/04/2010 09:06, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller a écrit :
> I have finally found where the shape and visual appearance of the
> Neo1973 and Freerunner come from:
>
>
>
>
> BR,
> Nikolaus
>
>
> 
> Mobile Office Solutions
> by Golden Delicious Computers GmbH&Co. KG
> Buchenstr. 3
> D-82041 Oberhaching
> +49-89-54290367
> http://www.handheld-linux.com
>
> AG München, HRA 89571
> VAT DE253626266
> Komplementär:
> Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH
> Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602
> Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller
>
> Digital Tools for Independent People
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



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The Origin of the Freerunner Shape!

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

I have finally found where the shape and visual appearance of the  
Neo1973 and Freerunner come from:




Openmoko.kmz
Description: application/vnd.google-earth.kmz




BR,
Nikolaus



Mobile Office Solutions
by Golden Delicious Computers GmbH&Co. KG
Buchenstr. 3
D-82041 Oberhaching
+49-89-54290367
http://www.handheld-linux.com

AG München, HRA 89571
VAT DE253626266
Komplementär:
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Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602
Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller

Digital Tools for Independent People






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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

[Yorick Moko]

Seriously, you know I'm a fan of your software (wrote you a few e-mail IIRC)
but lately, in every thread I read, you are scaring away potential
contributors
and you never really answer the basic questions:

1) why don't you give people feedback on their patches?
2) why don't you use a mailinglist/SVN/bugtracker?
if you did this, you wouldn't have to worry about a fork:
3) what is bad about a fork?

I have no troubles whatsoever if you say: "It's my project and I don't want
to give anybody else even the slightest influence"
it's your right to do that
but ATM your words and actions are contradictory:

either say
a) that you want to do tangogps solo (or with a select few that you chose)
and tell people to fuck off with their stupid attempts at patches,
or say
b) that they are welcome to try and help out, and set up some infrastructure
or at least give them feedback
either way, there will be no need for anyone anymore to complain to you


Beaviour like this (previous e-mails) is making me consider to opkg remove
tangogps and install a fork as soon as it comes out
and no, this does not mean that forking is bad, this means that forking
gives people a choice
people will chose the best one
(like I did when we couldn't load gpx tracks in the official tangogps
version, but could in a patched version -
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-April/005321.html -)
I forwarded you that message and got no response, for which I personally do
not blame you btw
It was only a forward and took me 2 seconds
But if I had written a patch, and got no response, I would seriously
consider not writing a patch again in the future


And yes, I'm not a programmer, but I have tried to do what I can; help
people on IRC in the early days, file bug reports, do some early testing for
a bunch of programmes, try to give feedback to the creators, add things to
the wiki, I even consider some of my posts on the ML us...)


In short:
please answer those three questions -1) 2) 3)- (or don't, that is an answer
on it's own)
and communicate a) or b)
(or c if you have a different opinion)
just make it sure that everyone knows what they can expect
because at this moment people have made efforts they wouldn't have done if
they had known were they stood (e.g. not getting any feedback to a patch)


I personally hope the project continues to evolve and improve, because I
find it a big addition to the available software on the openmoko.


Kind regards,
yorick



On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Marcus Bauer wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:19:25 -0400
> Stephen Pape  wrote:
>
> > Okay. I'm not sure what you're getting at, or why you're completely
> > changing the subject to make a personal attack on me over an argument
> > involving software development practices.
>
> So when you use Google it is okay and when I use Google it is a
> personal attack? Hey, you are such a cutie :-) You should try to sue
> Google for diffamation - you could get rich quick! :D And I will join
> you because "Linus Torvalds" and Openmoko has a lot more Google hits
> than me and that guy has never done any work on Openmoko at all.
>
> I'll right tomorrow write him an email about what's wrong with his
> completely fair scheduler. I think there are situations where it is not
> fair enough. And I'll be really upset if he disregards my email just
> because I have never contributed to the kernel (almost at least).
>
> > Maybe you should look inwards regarding your complains about developer
> > ego.
>
> I have scheduled 4 hours for this task next weekend. You think that's
> enough?
>
> > Good luck.
>
> Thank you. And thank you for your example that the best way for
> avoiding questions about forking is not to make any open source
> software at all.
>
> ...gosh, what a cutie Stephen is... :D
>
> HAVE FUN. Last mail, day over. Thanks guys.
>
>
>
>
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