Re: video/graphics on GTA02
Or simply clutter... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: France : Taxes for video and mp3 playing capacity
No direspect or anything but that's probably the dumbest tax I've ever heard of. Don't worry, French geeks are pissed off as well Yeah, almost every tax talked about in this thread exists in France. But how do we avoid the Neo to be taxable ? As said, if you don't sell the phone with an embedded player, I think the neo become out of conditions to be taxed. At least, you can justify that you are buying a phone and nothing else. The best would be a special french openmoko version: without user-accessible Flash memory or multimedia features (so that you don't have the possibility to broadcast unregulated copyrighted content when your phone is ringing for instance), possibly no connectivity at all... Better get myself a Motorola F3 then... :p Or buy it outside France. FLo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
My idea was an application to : when you lost your Neo, send a special SMS with the cellular phone of a friend, to your Neo. The goal is that the Neo will answer the coordinates X and Y with GPS. Maybe in the future transform coordinates to an real adress... 2007/11/8, Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: i know i will, it's a certainty. i lost a phone 2 weeks ago and another in June i know it's got a gps and can e-mail/text us where it is, but that will only work if someone doesn't re-flash it and has other caveats on it working. Besides, I'd rather it not get that far away from me, i want to know as soon as i get off my seat on the train, that I've left it behind what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or external device) when it moves out of range. it doesn't have to be any fancy bluetooth or wi-fi or GPS thing, some simple technology for measuring proximity and triggering a signal would suffice ideas? any other absent-minded daydreamers out there? is RFID the way to go? are there any unlicensed parts of the radio spectrum that are free for use by anyone using low-powered radio transmitters? of course, this tech could be applied to any object that a person could lose ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Florent Delvaille ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Google's Android has long road ahead
The good thing is that OpenMoko and Android are OpenSource. Then maybe the Androiddevelopers could take some basis/ideas to OpenMoko , and OpenMoko to Android. Ok the goal of OpenMoko is not the same as Android. Android is based on a lot of society and a lot of money, but I think that it will be interessting to have a look on the two and make some links with. -- Florent Delvaille ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Running e17 even as we speak. Same here :) Very big news, thank you, Sean and Raster ! Have fun Flo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video decoding in GTA-02
It doesn't. It does one of the simpler MPEG-4 profiles, don't recall the details. (One of the S-Media models does H.264, but no VGA.) Can't really feel much pain for that, personally. Personally i do a bit, since online video is moving towards ubiquitous h264 (in Flash player for desktops, or with dedicated chips in f.e. appleTV or mobile phones). But who really wants to check out youtube videos in the subway ? Marketing, marketing... What about encoding features of the smedia chips ? The day there will be a camera on the neo... Who knows if the next neo won't use something like http://3dlabs.com/content/productOverview.asp ;) Flo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
USB Booting from a neo in mass storage mode ?
Hi, Sorry to bring this up again (this subject was briefly discussed here some monts ago), but i finally decided to wait for the GTA02 device, which prevents me to test the effect of booting a regular computer from the neo's transflash in mass storage mode. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:LiveUSB_distro Could a happy neo owner confirm on infirm the (im)possibility of usb booting ? Any informations about USB mass storage mode (if implemented) would be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks, Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fingerscroll, foofone and more from people.openmoko.org!
Fingerscroll foofone: http://people.openmoko.org/jserv/graphics/video/ Wow. This is clutter running inside qemu... Anybody tried running it in software rendering on a real device? Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: interesting red flag ui
I have a few ideas for a launcher, instead of a Start menu, have a launcher application. Imagine a cylinder you can rotate left and right, it would show 3 icons highlighted vertically and you would see other icons around the cylinder, it would be 3D of course.You can also move thumb up and down to change position along the cylinder. Ok it's a bit gimmicky but you wouldn't need to move your finger around the screen so much as the current system with scrollbars etc. Iit would show off the 3d capability of the chip in the consumer version. We have enough resolution to make it smooth. Please feel free to post your fancy ideas in the wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/UI_Improvements ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[UI/Graphics] Ever heard of graff ?
I never heard about it, but it looks interesting (following the physics-inspired/verlet integration ramble some months ago on this very list) http://www.mdk.org.pl/articles/2007/04/23/chapter-1-in-which-we-meet-graff Be sure to check out this one (scrolling list with inertia scrolling) http://files.mdk.am/demos/graff-demo-3.avi No mention of OpenGL ES, but software rendering seems to be sufficient on Nokia 770/800. Let's wait for more news of graff (any additional data would be appreciated), and code. But it looks definetly promising ! A python app, tracker backend, using graff (clutter/evas) as frontend, with gtk offscreen rendering and builtin mutimedia support (gstreamer or whatever lighter) ... Makes you want to have a GTA02 already :) Speaking of which * jnpatel's arena will be a clutter tracker frontend with direct webservices integration (ex: flickr). http://njpatel.blogspot.com/2007/03/im-not-even-supposed-to-be-here-today.html * some nice clutter toys news: http://njpatel.blogspot.com/2007/07/clutter-foo.html Any benchmarking news ? Regards, Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: voice command line (was: ssh to a phone ... thats awesome !!)
Actually, I had used a tool called cvoicecontrol sometime back for exactly that, running scripts or cmds using voice. It wasnt very powerful in terms of how well it could recognize, but was functional enough. http://www.kiecza.net/daniel/linux/ Unfortunately, cvoice control doesn't seem to compile anymore. I did not manage to debug this. But it's an interesting approach, also taken by http://perlbox.org/ You may find relevant info about speech recognition (and command-and-control dialog managers) here : http://wiki.tuxisalive.com/index.php/Speech_recognition ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: camera? yes please! ..
.. count me in for a definite yes-vote for the camera, i believe it is an excellent user interface .. Video-based UI is indeed a seducing concept, and the neo could be a great experimentation device. However this requires the camera to see you while operating, which is geometrically opposed to regular image taking (sorry for the bad english). Indeed, a rotating barrel could be an answear to avoiding multiple cameras (i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one to be pissed off when you see these dualcam 5mm thin phones, one cam only for visio and the only one for pictures). What could be interesting in the future would be a 360° lens on top of the device -- yes they are coming (http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/cx_news/vol34/featuring2.html). With software-based remapping, you get a fake pan-tilt video camera that is able to see the front and the back... To me the ideal neo is the one you can buy parts for and plug them into, depending on the situation. Cheap parts, easy plug in/out (like prototyping boards). Be it an ethernet network card, an usb hub, a laser keyboard projector, a camera (not to mention that if you can change the camera, you can change the optics capabilities with different lenses/specs), a *real* microphone, a vga output or a mini-printer... Possibilities are endless to make the neo become the next swiss knife :) Cheers Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multitouch
On 7/24/07, David Samblas Martinez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Refering to Multitouch, any one have take a look at MPX: The Multi-Pointer X Server (http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/mpx/) seems to bee what we are talking about.. and open-source. Any brave dev try to compile it on the little machine? Lol. What will the second input device be then ? :) Plus, moko uses an embedded version (kdrive), not the regular x. But if we can run it on the moko, then we can: * add an/several usb/i2c 2nd pointer/device and do strange things with it * be ready for the day openmoko will ship multitouch * try to emulate multitouch and testbed using mpx, as discussed previously, see: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/UI_Improvements#Clever_hacks and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/UI_Improvements#Extending_the_touchscreen_capabilities_and_input_methods Cheers FLo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[via Slashdot] yet another alternative text input subject : Five finger keyboards
Interesting blog post when you consider the custom cases possibility: http://trevors-trinkets.blogspot.com/2007/07/five-finger-keyboards.html via: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/23/1256213from=rss Also (blog comments squeezed out): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_keyboard http://xaphoon.com/dataegg/ (originally developed for NASA astronauts) http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/review/frogpad_ifrog_bluetooth_keyboard_review Cheers, FL0 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: mozilla based browser for maemo...
On 7/19/07, ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be nice to have also a webkit-based browser. http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/07/webkit-progress.html http://code.google.com/soc/2007/openmoko/appinfo.html?csaid=B5A2E96741FD60E4 Regards FLo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Get them while they're still hot!
Yup, congratulations !!! Bonne chance Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Why iPhone using AJAX was genius
Quite self-explanatory: http://www.rev2.org/2007/07/02/top-25-web-apps-for-the-iphone/ I'm not saying we have to do the same, but if we manage complete compatibility... (which should be possible as soon as we have a functional gdk webkit port -- which is almost there). An interesting aspect for OpenMoko is to use this together (but sandboxed) with private server apps that offer http interfaces (ssh over http tunnel or wifi/bluetooth direct home connection) on an NSLU2/WL-500G like companion device. And we'll even stil have the possibility of traditional apps... What a short development time for so many features ! Cheers Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [France] Grouping orders,
Yup, I'd be glad to :) Cheers, FLorent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Advertising/hype
iPhone: Damnit, lost my connection! Why do people think that AJAX apps are necessarly remote ? They can be local and drive internal components (such as a gsmd for contacts/calling/messaging), do people really think that you'd have to connect the Internet to write kitchen receipes ? Maps-enabled apps, yes: Google Maps is way more clever than having to carry around a continental map. As is Wikipedia access, etc... But simple apps will be local, and won't necessarly suck ! It's just the make up that changes (ok, this does'nt count for games, but we're talking GUI toolkit here). Cheers, Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rough seas
So please wish us luck. We're just about at the tipping point. Good luck :) I think it is normal for us to wait, as normally the hardware engineering is in a complete black-out, with delays and revisions. Let's all be patient, that's it. Cheers, et bon courage !!! Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Web-based GUI technology for OpenMoko
WOW. I'm shocked. We were going the same way as how the iPhone works, without knowing any of it ! IP over USB kindof sucks on a Win box (have to install shitty drivers). UMS storage gives direct access to hardware storage. Which leaves BT Wifi for samba + webservices. The way i saw it, the best way to use the phone from a regular computer is exposing the internal fonctionality using desktop widgets and a web app. I bet there will be an OSX Dashboard widget for the iPhone, allowing to do everything without touching it. Please check out this project, which i find very interesting for this topic: http://gnetvibes.rubyforge.org If they are exposing services as local (and shareable) webservices, then it means their entire interface is webkit-based. They have OpenGL ES acceleration, it's a certitude now. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Wiimote, I2C Neo
From: http://www.windmeadow.com/node/42 Data can be read from a wii nunchuck directly into an Arduino, using TWI (aka I2C). In other terms: we could potentially use any Wiimote accessory on a Neo... A nunchunk has a 3 axis accelerometer, joystick and buttons, for instance (for a mere 20$). What are the upcoming wii accessories? :) On another subject, any updates about neo's I2C/expansion pack wish ? Cheers Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wiimote, I2C Neo
I guess if what you really want is the joystick ... Or any upcoming Wii accessories (who knows what will come from these prolific brains ^^ ?); i guess a text input accessory will have to come sooner or later. Yet, as you pointed out, here i'm interested by the joystick + buttons you'd want the nunchuck part. But obviously that data is sent via bluetooth as well. Of course, the remote costs $40 instead of just $20 for the nunchuck. Exactly; but using the wiimote as gateway for it's accessories will: * suck battery (wiimote neo) -- bluetooth's fault * require more pockets :p What applications are you thinking about for this? I have no cparticular application in mind (apart the added input methods -- 3D GPS navigation and games comes to mind ) ; in fact, what i think is really great is that Nintendo uses I2C for accessories. Which means, no need for OpenMoko to spread lots of accessories: just go to your videogames retailer (huge existing distribution network), pick up your favourite Nintendo accessory, and plug it in your I2C expansion pack (adapter required). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Web-based GUI technology for OpenMoko
Here's a little look-and-feel example that could be done with an opensource AJAX framework [javascript required]: http://demo.qooxdoo.org/current/showcase This may allow easier separation between apps and GUIs. Of course, as usual we have no idea how well such an app would perform (little gratuitous prediction: very bad), benchmarking is needed but ... who knows ? This is going along with the ongoings gdk webkit port and gsmd XmlHttpRequest interface (was topic: embedded webserver). What do you think ? Is it REALLY unrealistic ? Could anybody try the url on it's Nokia N770 (lots of happy owners here, right?) and rough feedback the responsiveness ? Cheers Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as iPhone?
Imho the EFL are the best choise for a device like the Neo. But, which backend for evas ? Framebuffer ? X ? OpenGL (i don't think there's an evas Opengl ES implementation..) ? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as iPhone?
I would say, considering the fact that the apps ecosystem hasn't flourished yet, is it really too late to switch? In the rest of this mail, please assume it is not. How detached is the underlying processes/functions and GUI from each other? How difficult will it be to just pull a different GUI layer on top of the phone functions? The openmoko team can choose among technos that separate the two layers. If you choose to develop (local) web applications for instance, then only the backend of the web rendering engine is the criteria. Switching from gdk to qt libs (which have had lots of embedded-oriented optimizations) will require only changing the rendering engine (webkit-gdk or webkit-qt), the backend isn't a concern. Yet, for traditional applications... If you choose to develop your applications using a general purpose scripting language (python/ruby/whatever), using GUI bindings that support multiple backends (such as [1] [2] ) could let time for the final decision... The clutter toolkit seems more and more interesting, because it supports: * GTK+ embedding * Language bindings for Perl and Python * Provides a fixed-point API [4] But it would also mean: * no apps before P2 model * no clutter-based openmoko devices on non-OpenGL-capable devices [1] http://wiki.python.org/moin/AnyGui [2] http://wiki.python.org/moin/Ocean [3] http://cairographics.org/backends/ [4]http://www.clutter-project.org/docs/clutter-clutter-fixed.html Any thoughts? Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as iPhone?
Related tutorial : http://www.directfb.org/wiki/index.php/Projects:GTK_on_DirectFB_for_Embedded_Systems The choice should be driven by benchmarks results. EFLs are on the row too... Cheers Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as iPhone?
Interesting. Can I hear more supportive or counter arguments? What do the others think? Depends on the technical bottleneck, which i am in no position to determine. Is GDK inherently unsufficient too ? I am very curious about the potential of the webkit gdk qt ports, i hope to benchmark them whenever i get a device. Maybe a local web interface is doable and reactive enough for launching apps. Regards Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SVHMPC] Phone Call Security
In any case, between openmoko devices encrypted calls would imply having a personal server, as P2P communication is almost always prevented inside a GPRS network (at least in France, it is). The mokoslug distro for NSLU2 becomes more and more promising :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: Re: Neo1973 Update!]
My guess is that the primary application of that chip will be audio/video reproduction, and perhaps some blitting improvements, the 3D part is just bonus/eyecandy material. I do not agree with you: the neo currently struggles with 2D drawing; a real (understand: usable) zooming user interface has to achieve fluid un/zooming, so that the zooming metaphor applies to our analogical sense of space. I hope the chip will enable ZUIs, together with the accelerometers, not just eye-candy ! Anyway, these are great news !!! Cheers Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
From official SMedia press release for Glamo3662 [1]: * MPEG4 full hardware codec function * 5M pixel high resolution picture Glamo3362 supports up to 5M pixel resolution picture function, including auto focus, auto white balance and auto exposure that are reaching the image quality of a digital camera. Presently there are three types of auto focus lenses: VCM, Piezo and Stepping Motor --- DIY camera (expansion pack...) ? * OpenGL-ES: for 3D GPS navigation software: Glamo3362 product has the pipeline structured pure hardware accelerator, and is complied with OpenGL-ES specification, so that 3D GPS can be realized inside the handheld mobile device. Together with the acceleration sensors update, this update pre-announcement looks very promising ! Just a thought: on macbooks, apple uses the hard drive's acceleration sensors (normally, safety function) as input device. Wanna tilt your neo? :) [1] http://www.smediatech.com/press8.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Voice/Command recongnition
Or http://wiki.tuxisalive.com/index.php/Speech_recognition ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple iPhone ads
I noticed a funny phrase in the tossug video: Because desktop computing assumes that we only have butts ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firefox for mobiles
Hi Or opera of course... it went fully open-source didn't it? No it's not. It's just free. I'm wondering why nobody seems to consider webkit as the viable alternative: * it's open source * it's been ported to qt recently, which may lead openmoko to use qt libs * there is a registered google summer of code whose aim is to port webkit for openmoko http://code.google.com/soc/openmoko/appinfo.html?csaid=B5A2E96741FD60E4 * there is an ongoing effort to put webkit gdk together http://trac.webkit.org/projects/webkit/browser/trunk/WebCore/platform/gdk * so many firms use webkit in their own mobile products (ex: nokia S60)... because it's maybe the fastest and lightest webengine So Let's wait 'til the end of the summer :) Regards Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Maximum SDHC capacity supported?
Hi As there are some 8GB SDHC cards out there, are there limitations on the neo? (as soon as it's SDHC, shoudl'nt be it ok?) Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery powered charging/USB hub
Battery-Powered 4-Port USB Hub: Yes. Has already been discussed; in fact it's quite big and ugly; the dream would be the expansion back idea: some sort of battery-powered usb hub + IO extender http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Expansion_Back http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/003271.html Regards Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Webkit port alternative: qt webkit port inside gtk
Hi. I found this post, which may be of interest (in regard to hypothetical widgets and webUI) http://zecke.blogspot.com/2006/12/webkit-for-olpcs-sugar.html Another interesting project: Screenlets: OSX-like widgets http://hendrik.kaju.pri.ee/screenlets/ Cheers Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Widgets: Openmoko/Chumby transproject?
Hi I guess that many people already heard about the long-awaited chumby, one of these hack-me devices. Hardware specs: # 266 MHz ARM controller (the MX21 by Freescale) # 32 MB SDRAM running at 133 MHz bus speed # 64 MB NAND FLASH ROM # 320x240 3.5 TFT LCD http://www.chumby.com/developers And it runs linux (2.4-based :-\) As we can see, the neo and the chumby have a lot in common, be it ideas, hardware specs or even leaders ;) Yes, it uses flash7 for widgets. Which has'nt even been considered in the openmoko case... But what if the two projects shared the widget aspect? http://www.chumby.com/widgets/channels The two products could share: * embedded experience * the content ecosystem * the display platform (flash) and tools I'm not saying i want this. But: why not? Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: picture viewer
I'd like to be able to do most things without menus or buttons, just learned interaction. Sorry to remind this, but we have been thinking of such controls, with simple mockups: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/UI_Improvements#Using_simple.2C_localized_warp_as_modifier_key These controls are intended to be implemented for all finger-apps, and may be suitable for image navigation. Please feel free to add yours :) Cheers Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[News] Screenshots of Intel's Redflag linux interface
http://apcmag.com/5896/gallery_intels_new_mobile_internet_device_with_red_flag_linux Notice the: * Google Maps with GPS * widget-like launcher ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SVHMPC] 0K Re: OpenMoko light web server
I'm still on the widget driven GUI concept. Having a single common rendering approach using HTML/Widgets would provide some interesting advantages. Not only on the graphical coherence, but also on the novel mixed/hybrid uses that will be feasible (semi web/local). Why not considering a phone's GUI as a mosaïc of widgets? Little apps for little devices... Nokia took the opposite position : www.widsets.com It needs java, and is specific. Don't you believe that native OSX/netvibes/googlehomepage widget support will be a killer app for openmoko? I may be quite stupid, but i sometimes wonder if choosing a technology should be driven by an already existing and flourishing content ecosystem. There are more than 1000 OSX widgets, 700 netvibes... All having a particular purpose. For non-believers, there's jackfield that already offers limited OS widget support: http://www.kryogenix.org/code/jackfield/ About the web/javascript core engine, everybody seems to go webkit (iphone, nokia S60, OSX dashboard...). Let's wish success to the webkit google code project! You wouln't often want to go online on mobility situations (i mean, real webbrowsing), but checking your news or searching places you already know can be very useful. And that's exactly what web widgets do... http://developers.netvibes.com/files/UWA-Widget.wdgt.zip This file is an OSX Dashboard-compatible widget, allowing to embedd any netvibes ecosystem's element; which contains (as of today): 743 modules, 84000 rss. All in a handeld form factor compatibility already. http://eco.netvibes.com/modules/ The same type of architecture (web widget in a widget) could save lots of time: no need to develop a dedicated rss reader, or small handy modules (weather, games, finance, wikipedia). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: built-in scripting languages.
Is there a way to add a poll feature to the wiki? This would give a quantitative about the community's opinion... Cheers Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: built-in scripting languages.
What about: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Poll Seems strange not to have this extension in the wiki... Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko light web server
Q. is an XSS worm on the way? A. not unless you make your interface susceptible to known web app vulnerabilities: XSS, SQL Injection, session hijacking, etc. Don't misunderstand me, i am 100% for mixing web local app through a web interface: I am very interested in netvibe's universal widget API ( http://dev.netvibes.com/ ), as well as openkapow (http://openkapow.org/ ) which could allow to compose your OS following your needs. You could even port the local widgets back (if they follow the API) and use them (in a limited fashion) on your desktop... I'm doing to prevent it. 1) I'm going to run my code through an automated scanner. I recommend these things to everyone. [...] Glad to see that you had security in mind from the beginning ! I mean the question had to be asked, as you are doing GUI experimentation :) So, if you want to see if the phone just rang, you have to keep pinging the web server every second or so, and if it responds with I'm ringing, you fire off the javascript that draws the I'm ringing icon on the interface. No, this doesn't seem very energy-sparing... stinkin' feature, it is. But IIOP with a Java or Smalltalk BOA can be implemented fairly easily and without bloat. Talking about squeak, what about http://www.seaside.st ? Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Openkapow, netvibes api: easy mashups; openmoko dashboard?
Hi Note: this is not a feature request, just a discussion topic about integrating web mashups on openmoko someday, or never. * Openkapow Using http://openkapow.com , we may have a very easy and useful tool for graphically developing mobile-oriented mashups (win linux client available). After designing the mashup, you publish it. There are 3 types of robots: * RSS robots: they output results in an RSS field (1.0, 2.0, Atom) * REST robots: output XML, JSON, CSV, HTML or XHTML * clip robots: outputs an html page You call the robots using simple urls like http://service.openkapow.com/Andreas/mymashup.rest Please tell me if i'm wrong, but in order to use these mashups on an openmoko phone, we'd need: * for html: a good webbrowser (dillo ?) * for RSS, XML, Json ... a web-oriented scripting language (python? http://www.python.org/pypi/demjson/1.1 ), with gtk+/glade bindings; Of course, GPS-enabled mashups (GPS to geocoord wrapper ) would be very insteresting... Example of geographical context based mashup: http://openkapow.com/forums/8562/ShowThread.aspx#8562 See the FAQ if interested http://openkapow.com/blogs/support/archive/2006/12/04/FAQ.aspx *** Netvibes api Another interesting API: the netvibes api is a universal widget api http://dev.netvibes.com/ http://dev.netvibes.com/doc/universal_widget_api They developed an Apple Dashboard widget, that can embed any UWA widget, see the screencast: http://dev.netvibes.com/doc/uwa_widget/screenshots#uwa_screencast They planned support for other platforms. It would be interesting to have the same widgets on your phone, desktop and netvibes/google homepage. The form factor of widgets is suitable to an embedded device... *** There is a list of mobile-oriented mashups too: http://www.programmableweb.com/tag/mobile All this to say that some sort of net-enabled openmoko widget/app class may allow easy integration of web mashups into openmoko. Doing webmail-checking apps, meteo displaying etc... Questions: * any plans yet for an openmoko dashboard (local - ex: detailed batt usage, detailed GSM informations - web)? * what do you think of web mashups on mobiles? * any feedback about openkapow already? Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[News] Dash, the internet-connected gps
Interesting concepts... http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/04/beta_test_a_dash_express_gps.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [News] Dash, the internet-connected gps
The issue with traffic movements is you really need the cell tower movement information from carriers, without this these traffic flows are at best an estimation. As for openmoko: What about, in car GPS mode, reporting unusual speed fluctuations? Ex: you're on a 130 km/h road, and your gps reports 40 km/h = traffic jam. gprs link up, upload info + timestamp to community server When you query a car travel planning (i.e. ask your gps app to show you the way somewhere), do a simple query to the community traffic jam server; if the chosen path shows quite recent alerts, it would calculate an alternate ununcombered road. This could also be used periodically... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [News] Dash, the internet-connected gps
I would add that gprs is the only way to have a data link on a speed 50 km/h... And reporting stuff like average speed would be only a few ko ! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: UI long term development perspective: physics engine
Hi I had the chance to get my hands on the neo for a short moment (thanks sean), and i must say i'm double motivated now :) I had the opportunity to play for a split second with the touchscreen, and i think we can do things with this touchscreen; it may require module hacking, for stabilizing the multi-touch behaviour, but we can definetly improve it and define gestures with it. It really behaves like my laptop touchpad, but more erratic/pressure sensitive. I also added a new section in the http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/UI_Improvements#Using_EFL-based_apps wiki article; GTK seems to prove difficult for the base UI: sluggish, overkill... So why not using e17 or the EFLs? I was thinking about this for quite a long time, and now i'll have the opportunity. If chosen, switching to EFLs has to be done soon if we don't want to waste time in the pure GTK based UI. While e17 is quite changing these days, EFLs are stable and could be used for the best. Cheers Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Poky on the neo | e17 on openmoko
Hi, i was wondering if someone tried to use poky on the neo. I could be a good work environment (for application testing, touchscreen behaviour tweaking...) http://projects.o-hand.com/poky I'd also be interested in porting/adapting e17 for openmoko; who's interested in this project? There's e17 tuning / fine compilation involved, as well as theming, module developing (GPRS signal indicator, virtual keyboard, ...) and (i hope not too much) some e17 patching for embedded needs (ex: input methods related work - because of the touchscreen, always-fullscreen operation, ...). If we can avoid forking, it would be great. Thanks Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[News]List of iphone competitors / neo appears twice :p
http://www.mobilewhack.com/top-ten-list-of-iphone-competitors/ Funny, the neo appears twice in this comparative ? In fact it's a mix of the greenphone (i guess it was the one they wanted to describe...) with the neo's features (even imaginary ones: multi-touch gesture recognition). http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/07/fics-linux-based-fic-gta001-gsm-smartphone-encourages-hacking/ Maybe, at the time of writing, the neo was only at planning stage? Cheers Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Choice of scripting langage: towards Web2.0?
What would be the best platform for using web 2.0 APIs? There are interesting web 2.0 services, almost all offering free-to-use APIs (http://www.programmableweb.com/), such as the recent netvibes crossplatform widget API http://dev.netvibes.com/ or Imity, who recently released an open source phone client. Imity uses your mobile phone (bluetooth) to sense people around you, people that are members of the same social networks as you. http://www.imity.com/pocket-radar http://code.google.com/p/imity-client/ What's interesting about it is that it's not restricted to one social network, but to other ones too (ex: flickr). And it works offline too . Imity will support integration with partners through dynamic objects. Imity objects will allow social networks of any kind to use Imity as a platform for physical real-life support of their web application. I'd be happy to do the same with last.fm neighbours in real life... Or any friend-based network: oh you know my friend *** ? We should take a second look at the python twisted networking framework: the twistedmatrix projects allow easy use of ssh, sftp, http client/server, smtp, imap, pop, dns, nntp, IM client/servers (OSCAR (AIM and ICQ), IRC, MSN, TOC (AIM), jabber). http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/TwistedProjects Maybe this could help in the scripting language decision. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-Touch
With that being said I have been thinking about multi-touch lately and after some things on the wiki page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/UI_Improvements I noticed that is mentioned the zoom feature of the iphone. as an example. The aim of the question is to discover how a monotouch screen behaves when you try to use it as multi touch: is it determinist, or erratical? If somebody could try reproducing various strange usages of the screen and report any deterministic/detectable behaviour, we might find ourselves additional input methods based on guess hacks. For instance, i think we can use cursor jumps as inputs; example: P**+ * 2 * ** * 1* - **N Zoom + P **+ * 1 * * * *2 * - **N Next page/item It would be some timing-based detection, like non-linear handgesture recognition, done with 1 or 2 fingers. We have to: 1- experiment the touchscreen with all imaginable gestures (ex: 2 finger sliding, ...) 2- select the interesting behaviours 3- evaluate their determinism, eventually low level hacks on the kernel module 4- integrate them into openmoko finger-based controls So my question now is do we have access to the bounding box? If we can get at the coordinates of the bounding box can we not figure out if the bounding box is shrinking or growing? Yes, that is an open question :) Also if we have access to the bounding box we could with some practice figure out when users are trying to rotate an image. Indeed: if the bounding box is accurate, what if: - you narrow the 2 fingers? - zoom - rotate the box? rotation / linear map rotation - 2 parallel fingers (horizontal) sliding down = flat bounding box (almost a line) = scrolling down ... But, i'm not sure i understood what a bouncing box is: if all of this was true, then the touchscreen would report 2 points / an area... It would be great if people having access to hardware could try doing some detailed testing / reporting. But, it can wait until the next shipping phase is over :) the high resolution of the neo this should help a great deal. Well, even with high resolution, our eyes don't have better zooming :) Especially on mobility situation... . You press the zoom button then click an area to enlarge. Just curious how difficult would this be? Well, it's quite easily doable if the webbrowser / image displayer implements zooming ! looking at the iphone and it doesn't seem to be very multi touch but as it has not come out I could be wrong. It seems to only be able to accept 2 simultaneous inputs. Hey, that's just what's needed :) How many free space do you have on such a screen? Ciao Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-Touch
Yy ! We may have found something that's 100% compatible with the fingerwheel. Let's do it this way: - this socalled first touch can be done on the mokowheel itself: put your left thumb on the black area; there you enter fake multitouchscreen mode - keeping this finger in the black circle, touch another place of the screen : the cursor moves (not instantly if what we guessed is true) at a *constant* speed; or it warps, if it's implementation-dependant (is suspect the low level driver to report point A - point B as a jump) - if we can calculate the speed of the cursor every moment, we can identify a down left+second finger; either way we can detect warping - afterwards, * slide your righthand finger down, it scrolls up * slide your righthand finger up, it scrolls down * slide it left, next page/item * slide it right, previous page/item * do a circle: rotation * narrow towards the black circle: zoom - * go away: zoom + - when you leave the black circle, it's out of finger operational mode What's really great about it, is when you're looking at a map, you can rotate and zoom at the same time. The ownly downside is that we MUST use both hands (or put the device on a table) I'm gonna do mockups... Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-Touch
Mockups done (ugly, but gives an idea) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/UI_Improvements#Handgesture_recognition_proposal In fact, we may not even need the fake multi touch thing, if we define a finger-mode zone. Just put your first finger on the wheel, and the second one has handgesture enabled... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-Touch
Last post, promise :) I found this: http://iscroll2.sourceforge.net/ iScroll2 is a modified trackpad driver that adds two-finger scrolling capabilities to supported pre-2005 PowerBooks and iBooks on OS X 10.3 and up. To scroll, just place two fingers on your trackpad instead of one. Both fingers need to be placed next to each other horizontally (*not* vertically, the trackpad cannot detect that). Some people get better results with their finger spaced a little bit apart, while others prefer having the fingers right next to each other. iScroll2 provides two *scrolling modes*: Linear and circular scrolling. For *linear scrolling*, move the two fingers up/down or left/right in a straight line, respectively, to scroll in that direction. *Circular scrolling* works in a way similar to the iPod's scroll wheel: Move the two fingers in a circle to scroll up or down, depending on whether you move in a clockwise or counterclockwise direction. Added here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/UI_Improvements#Extending_the_touchscreen_capabilities_and_input_methods Cheers And good night Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: UI long term development perspective: physics engine
This paper (linked from that site) was interesting: http://www.teknikus.dk/tj/gdc2001.htm Yes it was :) Still, it's pretty specialized: it's about improving animation of characters in a videogame; the most relevant part of it is this so-called Verlet integration scheme, which is exactly what libakamaru does... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verlet_physics After reading this i realize that's not what we need, simpler equations will suffice completely. I'm wondering what layer of openmoko has to be hacked, i.e. if working at openmoko layer allows enough possibilities for this; if i'm not mistaken, this is part of libmokoui, but i'm pretty afraid that patching gtk itself woud be needed. Working on the lower level would apply changes to every application, not only openmoko's. One preliminary idea can be to add inertia and friction to the finger scrolling wheel; which means, you launch the wheel, and stop it when you like. For instance, one complete wheel turn = one element in the list further. This is an interesting option, because it only needs modification of the wheel's function and graphics effect. Nevertheless, there are different approaches. Example (it's merely an iphone imitation, so if you have novative ideas, please add your 2 cents): **Scrolling: the wheel of fortune effect (i can't find a better example than http://art.giatkabladze.com/george/images/images/wheel_of_fortune.jpg : imagine that every item of a scrollable list isput on the front surface; the aim is to reach this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPqqfVLQ_qY ) Forget the slider bar for scrolling windows, and let the entire window be scrollable by default * Sliding = Single click + maintained for a minimal distance Effect: scroll in an inverted/negated fashion (slide down = scroll up, slide up = scroll down) When finger is released (i.e. touchscreen doesn't detect any press): if (last_speed_seen value ) then keep this speed and acceleration, with friction (so that it slows down) else stop scrolling Scrolling here is seen as unidimensional, but can apply to bidimensional situations (ex: zoomed image) too * Action = quick double tap * Details/select = short single tap * Right click = long tap * Gestures can be interesting, especially for jumps (when the cursor jumps from upper left corner to down right) Obviously the tools are in the wild to build interfaces that could rival (or better IMO) anything Apple comes up with. We just need to organize this stuff. This would need hardware that can support dynamic interfaces. I can help here, too. Well, considering recent changes in destkop applications, opengl has a definite future. For instance, the expose (be it apple's or beryl's) is a very interesting and usable feature. Using compositing allows the physics metaphore: the human brain doesn't like gaps/jumps (for instance while scrolling a text), it needs continuity. When you look at apple's iphone prototype, it's not just eye candy, it's maybe the most natural/human way of navigating, because it's sufficiently realistic for the brain to forget the non-physical nature of what's inside. So, opengl hardware will be needed in a more or less distant hardware, for 100% fluid operation. And, if we really want deep changes, multi touch screen if essential too :( (example: zooming with fingers)... So does anybody want to start this? I mean _seriously_ start this. I'm more than willing to fund development if I see a plan in place. I'l be glad to work on the planning in the wiki, i.e: - assembling knowledge about the location of the code areas to modify (but it's in libmokoui for now) - assembling ideas such as scrolling - assembling UI resources/papers/libs etc... But, that's true, wee need a really good, novative idea. So Brain up, community ! Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: UI long term development perspective: physics engine
Would it be possible to get video captures or raw measurements of the touchscreen's reported coordinates? For instance, i'm pretty curious to know what exactly the touchscreen sees when you touch the screen with 2 fingers at the same time, when you move them, when you move only one of the 2, etc I'm also interested in knowing how precise the touchscreen is (ex: refresh rate, possible pressure indication, ...). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Fwd: UI long term development perspective: physics engine
i'm pretty curious to know what exactly the touchscreen sees when you touch the screen with 2 fingers at the same time, when you move them, when you move only one of the 2, etc, ...). The output is the center of the bounding box of the touched area. Pressure has little, but not no effect. Almost no effect on a single touch, on a double touch, the relative pressures will have a slight skewing effect towards the harder touch. (from theory). The touch point skips instantly on double touch. Thank you. I added your report to the wiki, and reorganized the mails so that a human being can try to contribute :p http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/UI_Improvements Please take a look if interested to help. If you have some spare time to continue reporting about the touchscreen, there are some questions on the wiki, but anybody having access to hardware can do it. Why do i keep asking for this? Because i'm not sure apple's ibooks have multi-touch pads, but if you slide 2 fingers in parallel, it makes scrolling. Which means: if it's not multitouch at it's base (and, if it was, there would be more of it), then they detect it using a hack. So can we do too, but we have to know exactly how the touchscreen reports exotic uses. Regards Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Need report: can mass storage mode neo boot (on transflash)?
Some USB keys don't boot. If this is the case, it may be possible to fix them by installing a new master boot record. (Most keys boot OK by default; some cannot be fixed even by doing this. I can't know if a neo will boot or not without somebody trying, so could any happy neo owner test this? It's really a matter of minutes (if mass storage mode is already implemented). If not, i'll wait a few months for my own :) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Bootable_USB_device_emulation ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Voice synthesizer for blind and visual impaired person
I forgot mentioning pocketsphinx (voice recognition), which has an openembedded port already ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Voice synthesizer for blind and visual impaired person
Hi I've been recently confronted to these questions for the tuxdroid project (which i intend to run on a NAS/Home router). About text-to-speech, eSpeak seems really interesting for embedded devices, plus it's more or less the only 100% free sotfware of this category (others, like festival / flite * for embedded *, are free, but not their voice models..). http://www2.tux-is-alive.com/wiki/Text-to-speech As for in-app integration: http://www.speechio.org/ About speech recognition, i'd say that it's today very hard if not impossible to get a working dication feature. The best option may be to skip it, and concentrate on command launching: more basic pattern-based recognition. A great option (if we manage to make it run) is CVoiceControl, but it needs maintainers: the project is down. http://www.kiecza.net/daniel/linux/ See http://www2.tux-is-alive.com/wiki/Speech_recognition for our preliminary evaluations and resources/links ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Wiki update: bootable usb stock emulation
Hi I just updated/developed my previous idea of using the transflash as a bootable device (mass storage mode). http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Bootable_USB_device_emulation * What do you think? * Could somebody owning a device test it? * If you have pointers to other resources, please add them/tell me; more generic information could be interesting, especially about the memtest method (i have no idea how the payload was generated, or if we can do the same for others) * i'd be glad to know how one could simply boot on a regular iso using grub I'm not sure what could prevent it to work, but it would be great to know. Thanks Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: UI long term development perspective: physics engine
I'll add here sotg from an off-list msg; In fact we have the position given by the touchscreen : [ x(t) ; y(t) ] speed is: [ (x(t') - x(t)) / (t' -t) ; (y(t') - y(t)) / (t' -t) ] - friction_factor*(t' - t) ... Where the friction_factor is in [0 ; 1] If we want acceleration, then we have to integrate the equation once. Shit, i gotta look into my college courses, it's terrible how fast it fades away :-p I'm not sure we really need to take acceleration into account. The changes to bring to the standard gtk scrolling are: - consider the list as scrollable (not just the scroll item) - change the scrolling stop behaviour (when the user stops touching the screen) like this: if (last_cursor_speed 0), continue_scrolling(last_cursor_speed) - when touching the moving list again, stop the scrolling immediately - addition of friction may be a plus, for a more wheel-of-fortune-like experience ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: UI long term development perspective: physics engine
Take a look @ this iphone video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPqqfVLQ_qY There is: - it's as if the entire list is the scrolling bar, but reverted (finger down - scroll up) - the list follows the pointer - as soon as you stop touching, the list continues to scroll (in contrary to standard gtk scrolling bar) - the list moves at the speed measured at the end of the touching - some friction lets it slow down - when you touch it again, it stops the scrolling Questions: - will the neo/openmoko graphics system be powerful enough for such animation? I suspect apple to do opengl acceleration on this device, which is way impossible for us - ok, akamaru is overkill. But it allows friction, speed etc... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: UI long term development perspective: physics engine
For the smooth transition effects you are describing, what part of the OpenMoko framework would have to be changed for this to work? GTK I guess... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: UI long term development perspective: physics engine
This is interesting - even if you just want a smooth scroll action you still need to relate it somehow to machine time (bad approximation of real time) and some time constant. It might be most efficient to group all those functions into a library rather than have lots of apps each doing these calcs independently each using the time system calls. Exactly. It could be interesting to develop a lib dedicated to UI animation. I took finger-based scrolling as an example, but the same can apply to popups (such as calling event), in-gallery (image / mp3) finger-based navigation, map (displacement, rotation)/zoomed image/zoomed web page navigation, wheel-based menu control ... Acceleration has to be taken into account: you slide your finger with a defined (linear should be enough) acceleration, initial speed, and these vectors have to be measured and reproduced in the scrolling behaviour. If i recall my (long abandonned) physics courses well, just second degree movement equations, should be quite easy to modelize. The difference with traditional scrolling is that the menu/image has to continue moving on it's own even when you don't touch it, with some friction (so that the movement stops by itself after a certain time). In fact, we have to modelize a wheel of fortune (for scrolling), and a floating sphere for image/webpage navigation. Simple question: will the touchscreen be 0/1 or does it have basic pressure reporting? In fact, such a lib may be closely related to handgesture recognition. The thing is: can reliable gesture recognition be done without multi-touchscreen? If you start a project I will help - I am a simulation engineer used to modeling fluid dynamics, chemistry and electricity. :) I don't think i'm gonna start anything before owning a device, and i'm not sure i'll get a pre-version. So i'll let you start. Anyway, that's the spirit ! Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).
About the graphics part, there's something i always found frustrating with existing virtual keyboards (say, the motorola EZX one): they remain hidden most of the time, but when you start typing in a text area, the keyboard appears, taking 70% of the screen. What could be done here (but it depends on the graphics capabilities of openmoko), is a fully transparent keyboard, letting you see what's under, so that text input is optimized for unobtrusivity. For instance, type on a text input area; background (app) stays the same, the keyboard shows up, 80% transparent, but using optimized coloring (for instance, taking the exact negative of the background on every point), so that it's still readable. About autocompletion/T9: are there plans for or already existing T9 implementations ? Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).
Hey, great idea ! I'd be happy to use such a system. But there's a problem i didn't find an answear to: - the neo will have a monopoint touchscreen (at least at first) - a finger is way bigger than a detectable area - What point will exactly be detected while pressing somewhere with a finger? Plus, what about using the selection wheel / T9 ? Any news/details about this feature yet, by the way? Anyway, please keep up the brainstorming :) I was thinking about self-completion. On such a machine, we'll need maximum efficiency for passable on-the-go cmd line typing, and therefore we'll need to have some sort of T9 for command line, sophisticated autocompletion (sh should do that i guess), if we also want parameters autocompletion. What will the embedded terminal be? GPE's? Thanks Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back from FOSDEM
What is the easiest way to distribute the video? Bittorrent would seem easiest to me. Or if someone has bandwidth to burn, HTTP. Dailymotion / Youtube They have bw to burn :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Automatic Updates Notification for the Neo?
It should be. The package manager used by OpenEmbedded (ipkg) supports operations similar to yum and apt-get: Will there be an official/community repository? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Attaching accessories (was: OpenMoko Challenges
yes, but that wouldn't solve all the problems: You'd still have something hanging off the bottom of the phone. To me, the most valuable feature is the keyboard; a small one, but usable. And it's not something you use on mobility situation (in the streets...). With the not-sexy-at-all battery powered usb hub, will a keyboard work easily? USB keyboard support in the kernel would be sufficient, right? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
What is Python? A scripting language. Much like perl, or bash/sh/csh/tcsh scripts - or AppleScipt if you've done that. Or MATLAB. That's great ! I didn't know there was python involved in openmoko... What parts? The networking one? (twisted?) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Boot mode: boot any computer on your openmoko device (storage mode?)
I would personally really like to be able to boot a computer on my linux phone, using a regular usb-miniusb cable. I know that USB boot isn't available on every computer in the same implementation, but nowaday's ones should. Woud it be possible, in file storage mode, or a dedicated boot mode, to let the phone appear as a bootable usb device? It would be just perfect to have geexbox on the device, or any lightweight linux distro (security oriented for instance, a NAS distro, a firewall one...) and toold (memtest...), with grub? This phone could become the hacker's swiss knife :) In fact the main question is: can we install grub on it? And will the computer run it? I don't know the exact technical difficulties involved to sure to be able to boot on most computers. Just a question: will the phone be able to recharge while on boot mode? And another: would if be possible to have a self rolling std USB plug integrated in the device? I know it sounds stupid, but it would be soo perfect... Doesn't have to be long though... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
Sorry to ask this, but which hardware features will finally be integrated in this version? - bluetooth? - wifi (you mentioned it)? Thanks for clearing up my mind :) Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenGL on the Neo1973??
Actually there is something called OpenGL ES (for Embedded Systems) which might come in handy. How well would it run without hardware acceleration? I'd appreciate hardware/software specs of the graphics device... Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko Challenges
One way would be for FIC to supply an optional fatter replacement battery that included one extra 1.5v cell, a wifi dongle, and the necessary circuitry for charging the additional cell after the regular ones were full, and supplying the 3.3 / 5v outlets. Could another one be to use a wifi dongle + usb battery, with a double usb adapter? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Attaching accessories (was: OpenMoko Challenges
http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/CPH420MP.asp , available on Amazon There seem to be battery powered usb hubs ** *Hub 420 MP* The latest product innovation from CyberPower Systems provides you with the ability to easily connect and power up to four USB devices without an ac power adapter. The new Mobile Battery Powered USB 2.0 4-port hub features rechargeable batteries to power the hub. Ideally, a double hub only would be better, but this product seems to be the only one ( http://jrandomhacker.info/Sharp_Zaurus_SL-series/accessories#USB_Devices ) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free maps after all?
Just to mention, use of Google maps is not free, it comes only with their software, or trough the browser interface Of course. But, do you really think that the open source community will be able to add every POIs (shops, cafes, etc...) ? The content to generate (tagging streets etc..) is so huge... Public Domain maps are great, but without metadata... OpenStreetmaps sure is an really great project, but certainly not ready yet. Why not using the browser interface then? There's an API open to mashups. I personally don't care if the content is not free, as soon as the browser is. http://www.programmableweb.com/api/GoogleMaps http://www.programmableweb.com/api/YahooMaps http://www.programmableweb.com/api/Map24 Map24 products are great http://www.programmableweb.com/api/Wiggle Wireless network mapping An interesting approach: from http://www.mapstraction.com/ : Mapstraction is a library which provides a common API for Google, Yahoo! and Microsoft's javascript mapping APIs to enable switching from one to another as smoothly as possible. The aim of Mapstraction in mainly to protect companies building commercial products on top of Google Maps from changes to terms and conditions, the introduction of ads, or the emergence of a competing library with better maps, different imagery or preferable licensing terms. Mapstraction additionally fills some holes each provider's current offerings (taking advantage of existing open source solutions where possible) to normalise the feature set across platforms. In the future, Mapstraction will also talk to OpenStreetMap for people who want to build maps without restrictions on derived works. So, IMHO the best way to go is to build a (possibly local) web interface that: - uses open source / free content if available (locally stored) - switches to online commercial but free to use ones (mashups) - integrates GPS coordinates for auto starting point determination What do you think? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hardware changes between phases ?
Would EDGE addition be a possibility, or are such changes too big? (apriori it's a change of the gsm module, dunno how different the AP's OS would have to be to follow) Regards Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free maps after all?
Hi I know it's important to have binary maps archives, but wouldn't it be simpler/better/easier to do a google maps + GPS mashup application (before open source maps are complete)? Again, sadly no EDGE... Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Various questions ideas: Maemo porting, package management...
Hi I have some little questions: - how hard will it be possible to port maemo apps to OpenMoko (if possible)? - what about package management? apt-get like mecanism? Do you consider using mkezx ? An official binary repository?... - will the AP's filesystem be read-write ? - already thought of using handsignature for biometric identification? I don't know if there are any free software available, i saw a prototype last year on a pda, and it works very well. PIN codes are old-fashioned ;) - although a lot of people didn't realize it, apple's iPhone killer feature is really the multitouch screen, which IMHO is the key component to all these physical-model-based interface effects and novel input types; is it certain that the first neo can't have such a screen? - about accelerometer questions, i saw a cellphone videogame that used the phone camera to detect movement, rotation How hard would it be to add a standard camera on the neo (1 MP max)? In terms of price and technical feasability? I'm not sure it's more expensive than a full-features accelerometer, is it? - i really think a universal infrared remote feature would be a killer app (with integration of tv programs); domotics is a great area, but is still very expensive; what about porting X10 control apps to the neo? :) There are tons of great apps feasible : perfect waker, playing music, lighting lights gradually on etc... - i don't get how a 2.5 G GSM is not EDGE: i thought 2.5 G was EDGE... Could please anybody clarify that? - i'd like to get an opinion of somebody who actually owns (or sam) a neo about the lcd screen. Sooo small, and such a huge resolution... Please let us dream :) Is suitable for text reading? - could the neo's usb port be used for usb gadgets? The more important would be mechanical input devices ( mini keyboards ) - already considered an usb multi I/O companion device? Something like http://www.pcinpact.com/actu/news/34516-replicateur-port-USB.htm (sorry, it's in french) This thing features a VGA/DVI connectivity, ethernet, ... If the neo had a small sized extension device, allowing external vga connectivity, it would be awesome... And serve as a dock station. - what about RFID reader/writer, or simply a tag? I'm sorry if some of these questions were already discussed. Anyway, openmoko is a great promising project, i'm waiting for it's availability ! I hope there will be enough devices for us to buy when it's ready for prime time... Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Various questions ideas: Maemo porting, package management...
- what about package management? apt-get like mecanism? Do you consider using mkezx ? An official binary repository?... for phase 1 we will use ipkg. For phase 2 we either would like to see an sqlite backend in ipkg (because the default one is really slow) or something written from scratch. dpkg/apt is very heavy -- I'm not sure whether we can strip it down to be feasible on a smartphone. The fact is, mkezx does use dpkg/apt, and it's pretty effective (on my A780) ! - i really think a universal infrared remote feature would be a killer app (with integration of tv programs); domotics is a great area, but is still very expensive; what about porting X10 control apps to the neo? :) Might make not much sense without an IR port or would it? ;) As suggested on openmoko wiki: - minor unexpensive hardware changes may be possible and are open to suggestions; an infrared led would certainly fit into this category, no? - there are hacks allowing to use the jack output to send IR signals, so a small cheap adapter could provide IR connectivity The Neo's USB port is switchable host/gadget, however host is unpowered, so you need a battery-powered hub. Hum, does a keyboard need to be powered? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Various questions ideas: Maemo porting, package management.
I didn't find any self powered keyboard on google, but a lot of bluetooth / IR battery powered keyboards http://www.expansys.lu/p.aspx?i=112314 http://www.expansys.lu/n.aspx?f=132 http://www.nokiausa.com/accessories/item_details/1,8994,product:SU-8W,00.html A battery powered foldable keyboard would be awesome: http://www.meritline.com/foldable-usb-keyboard-aza-230bk.html But it seems that only bluetooth devices are worth it (if we have no IR connectivity) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Push Email
Hello, Simple curiosity: what's the data link used by blackberries for notification? It can't be gprs or sms... A GSM extension ? Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Missed call communication protocol
If this works I vote for it (for as long as it will work ...) However receiving SMS is also free no ? couldn't you use that ? Well, it may be free in your country, but not in mine :) No, the only free-of-charge thing is the signalization protocol... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Missed call communication protocol
I like it too, but technically, it's a hidden channel (illegal...) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Text messaging on the OpenMoko platform
You can do nice things with your own persistently available server, yes, but one shouldn't be necessary to mostly enjoy OpenMoko. Of course, it shouldn't need it, but an associated distro / dedicated app for computers may unleash features. And can become a paid service if you don't want to run into the hassle of maintaining your own webserver (with professionnal grade backup and availability services...). You mentioned a web gateway; I assume you mean a web proxy that's tunable to eg. recompress images smaller (and crappier) and such to make gprs browsing a bit faster, and stuff like that - if you didn't, I do ;) Yup, i did. Still, the need for refactoring isn't that big, thanks to the awesome screen resolution of the neo... Makes me think of opera mini's refactoring process. Sadly, the lack of EDGE is a huge impairement for internet-based services usability (google maps, wikipedia, geomashups...) :-( Plus, mobile carriers (at least in France) aren't going in the direction of unlimited data access, more like you MUST buy all the features from me and it's illegal to circumvent it. No wonder french mobile carriers have the highest rentability per client in whole europe. Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
