RE: Master Studies in "Embedded systems" starts in Pforzheim/Germany

[Graham Auld]

Hi Wolfgang,

Sadly I left last September, however looking at the money spent on my
project work last year indeed a couple of neo's could have been purchaced,
indeed since my work involved fitting a chair sized robot with an embedded
computer system a device like the neo with it's usb connectivity and the
bonus of a screen would have been ideal, neatly side stepping my power usage
issues. Having to drag the robot to a monitor when things went pear shaped
could too have been avoided if I had a neo on board. I will mention it to
the person continuing the project in any case as it could even be used as a
remote control device for the current vehicle system.

Sorry my mail is starting to ramble off topic...

Graham

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of homyx
Sent: 24 March 2007 19:44
To: Wolfgang Silbermayr
Cc: OpenMoko
Subject: Re: Master Studies in "Embedded systems" starts in
Pforzheim/Germany

Wolfgang Silbermayr schrieb:
> I am just finishing the Bacchelor grade in HSSE (Hardware/Software
> Systems Engineering) in Hagenberg in Austria. Here at the university we
> have the master following to HSSE called Embedded Systems Design. In
> addition we also have a branch of study called Mobile Computing. I think
> it would be great if we could make OpenMoko popular there... I just
> don't know how to do this other than ordering my Neo and showing it to
> other people and hoping that the word of mouth will spread the
> information. This is just what I will do.
>
> Greetings, Wolfgang.
>   
If you're still at the university you should ask a professor for setting 
up a "students project". I'm applied at the University of Applied 
Science in Ingolstadt (Germany) and I'm trying to allure a professor.  
The  budget of a professor for  his/her labor should be enough to buy 
2-3 Neos for debugging reasons :)

/homyx

___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

RE: Crossroads

[Graham Auld]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: 14 March 2007 15:31
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org; Scott Rushforth
Subject: Re: Crossroads

Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
> 
> GSM should work just about anywhere. Maybe you could just tell us where
> you want to use this device? 
> 
> Plus you're really arguing for no reason. This thread was _us_ asking
> _you_ for help getting WiFi into this phone ;-)
> 
> -Sean
> 

Sean, I did that in my thread "What mobile service...", I'm in NYC.

What I'm arguing for is that you either get wifi on the device OR 
provide official info about what service plan will work for the device.



Mike,

First of all you're about 6 months to early with your argument; this is
still a developer device (one I'll be buying at release time).

Why do you argue for wifi on the device /OR/ official service plan info to
be released in a thread that indicated that the core team are attempting to
put wifi on the device as it is! This thread was started with a shout out
for some assistance from the community in tracking down suitable hardware
for such a task, NOT a question if wifi should be added or not!!!

Service plans are a moot point at this stage of development and have been
answered by this community as best they can. Have you tried speaking to
nokia or sony-erricson tech support or cust services to demand that they
tell you which service plan you should buy? Please try to remember that in
general the GSM model allows one bunch of companies to make phones and
another bunch of companies to run networks those phones will run on by all
adhering to a particular standard.

Go to your local GSM provider and try something like "hi, I'd like to be
able to use your network to phone people with my GSM phone but also browse
the internet/check my mail using GPRS please". If that doesn't get you
overloaded with the 30 price plans available this month. If it's anything
like the market in the UK then going in 3-4 months later there'll be a new
set of names and slight variations on each package. If you're looking for a
simple phone to by that will work out of the box with everything set up then
go buy a phone bundled with a contract and be happy about it.

I'll go out on a limb here and say (albeit a fairly stout branch) and say.
Neo1973 will work on any standard GSM network and via the GPRS component
will be able to get access to the internet.

Graham Auld



___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

RE: coverage at linuxdevices.com

[Graham Auld]

As I understand it Andreas, the hackers lunchbox is including the dev board
connecting thru the JTAG interface of the phone. You would purchace your
phone seperatly.

Someone please correct me if I missunderstand.

Graham 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andreas Kostyrka
Sent: 04 March 2007 17:58
To: Joe Pfeiffer
Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: coverage at linuxdevices.com

* Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070304 18:53]:
> Nice description of the technical information, with photos of the 
> hacker's lunchbox and car kit.
> 
> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7653749655.html

Just wondering, but did I get that right, the Hackers version that will be
available this month will only be a developers board, without a phone casing
=> unuseable as a mobile phone in day-to-day operations, right?

Andreas

___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

RE: Neo1973 With Screen On at PopSci!

[Graham Auld]

-Original Message-
From: Joerg Jaspert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 24 February 2007 15:50
To: Graham Auld
Cc: 'OpenMoko'
Subject: Re: Neo1973 With Screen On at PopSci!

On 10940 March 1977, Graham Auld wrote:

> A simple checkbox/radio button in the config should suffice:
> Geek Mode: On
> This could allow an extra prefs menu with hundreds of settings from 
> showing the real boot screen to turning on debug for all apps (for 
> example) of course, turning Geek Mode(TM) off would set everything 
> back to be very, erm, 'consumer oriented'...

No. If you have something like this it should keep what you changed, unless
you select an extra option "Go back to defaults".

--
bye Joerg
However, given my track record WRT editorial changes to foundation
documents, people ought to be examining this draft  _before_ the vote rather
than afterwards :) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



I would tend to disagree with this, it annoys me to have a bit of kit where
changes can't be undone without setting the entire device back to defaults.
Consider for example, if changing the screensaver on your windows pc
required you to reset the install back to defaults/re-install windows just
to put the screen saver back to how it was before!

If you push a switch down to turn on a light, shouldn't you be able to turn
off the light by lifting the switch up???

Graham


___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

RE: Neo1973 With Screen On at PopSci!

[Graham Auld]

A simple checkbox/radio button in the config should suffice:
 
Geek Mode: On
 
This could allow an extra prefs menu with hundreds of settings from showing
the real boot screen to turning on debug for all apps (for example)
of course, turning Geek Mode(TM) off would set everything back to be very,
erm, 'consumer oriented'...
 
Graham
 
 
 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dart
Sent: 24 February 2007 11:40
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: OpenMoko
Subject: Re: Neo1973 With Screen On at PopSci!


The pictures were very nice, however, they better have a pretty graphical
boot screen for the final product.  That boot-up screen would scare the
average non-geek something fierce.  I can just see it now, "Oh no!  My phone
is broke!"
Maybe they could have a customization setting that would allow you to turn
the geek boot screen on, but have it a pretty graphical one by default.
Mark

Bryan Fink wrote: 

Hi All.  I was just browsing for Neo1973 pictures, as I do every few 
days, and finally found pictures of a Neo with the screen on!  Check 
out Popular Science's 10-photo gallery: 

 

 

Images 2 and 3 show the Neo booting up.  It's quite amazing how much 
text fits on that screen. 

The gallery is part of this short blog post: 

http://popsci.typepad.com/popsci/2007/02/up_close_and_pe.html 

-Bryan 

___ 
OpenMoko community mailing list 
community@lists.openmoko.org 
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community 



___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

RE: SIM Interface

[Graham Auld]

SIM = Subscriber Identity Module

Probably more likley based on Andy's message 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of denis
Sent: 15 February 2007 00:08
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: SIM Interface

SIM = Simple Instant Messenger? 

I'm using SIM for nearly 3 years and I really like it. (although there are
some bugs, perhaps I could write you a mail later on) In my opinion it would
be nice to see SIM on OpenMoko. 

Denis

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Andrew Papia
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Februar 2007 23:22
An: community@lists.openmoko.org
Betreff: SIM Interface

I am a SIM developer and I am very interesting in getting my hands on an
open phone so I can develop mobile applications that make use of the SIM.
What is the interface to the SIM like on OpenMoko?  I've read you can query
phone book entries.  What else can you do?  Can you send abitrary APDUs?

-Andy

___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

RE: Get your own OpenMoko T-Shirt

[Graham Auld]

Hey, like the shirts, esp the mug, think I might just have to get me one of
those.

How about a page on the wiki about the shirts/mugs??

Graham 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Willmann
Sent: 12 February 2007 03:59
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Get your own OpenMoko T-Shirt

Hi,

I spent some time designing t-shirts and polo-shirts with the OpenMoko logo:

http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=211795

Thanks goes to the coreteam who allowed me to use the logo.

Regards,
Daniel Willmann


___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

RE: Missed call communication protocol

[Graham Auld]

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 08 February 2007 05:34
To: Graham Auld
Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: RE: Missed call communication protocol




On Wed, 7 Feb 2007, Graham Auld wrote:

> I like it, sounds good, I'm all for free-as-in-beer ways to talk to my 
> free-as-in-speech phone :)
>

Nice turn of phrase. I think there's a t-shirt in there, or perhaps an
OpenMoko project tagline:

   "free-as-in-beer software for your free-as-in-speech phone"

M


If only things like that would earn me a free-as-in-beer neo (roll eyes) I
want a neo, like yesterday

G
___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

RE: Missed call communication protocol

[Graham Auld]

I like it, sounds good, I'm all for free-as-in-beer ways to talk to my
free-as-in-speech phone :)

G 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Bennett
Sent: 07 February 2007 11:17
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Missed call communication protocol

Hi all,

In keeping with moving the control advantage away from the network
operators, and to the users, I wonder what you think of this suggestion:

When you use a SIP server, like Openser.org , you can set the CLI (Calling
line identifier) to any value you like when you send the call on to a PSTN
gateway.
That means the 'from' number you see on your mobile screen when I call you
from a SIP proxy can be any numeric value I like. (most PSTN termination
gateways will require a valid e164 number
http://www.answers.com/topic/e-164).
So I can send a call to my openmoko number, using a CLI set to +10 followed
by
13 arbitrary numbers, which should satisfy the e164 requirement .
No real phone numbers start with +10 , so I could program my openmoko to
reject any calls arriving with a CLI starting with +10, and to process the
next 13 numbers of the CLI as a message, hiding this call from the missed
calls list.
As far as I know there is no networks charge for a rejected call from a
mobile, and initiating a call from the openmoko to a number that always
returns a 'busy' would also be free of charge.
This gives us a free up/down communication channel that can take a payload
of
13 numbers in each packet. 

This could be used for:
* Push email notification.
* Presence. Like the 'online' indicator in a chat app that shows your
status. 
This is the next big area carriers are looking to charge us for, with their
new IM platforms. It can also be used in the routing logic of your own SIP
proxy/PBX, for instance: "Forward calls to mobile unless GSM presence is
'meeting' in that case send calling number by SMS, if SMS presence is
'available', and forward calls to secretary".
* Ultra Short Message Service (SMSes that use a phrase-book on both sender
and receiver, so you send the number that identifies a pre-formatted message
i.e.: 112='Please call home when you're free').
* Trigger predefined macros (shell scripts) on the phone, like "Send GPS
coords by SMS".
* Sync applications, like 'mark meeting14 as postponed', or "New updates
available, do you want to sync now?"
etc

Unless our list lawyers shoot this idea down from the start, we could start
thinking about the best way to define a missed-call protocol.
I'm thinking of using 4 of the numbers as a identifying pincode, then a 3
digit action identifier, and use the next 6 digits as payload depending on
what action was selected .
For instance update our presence info from the Openmoko to a server:
 Call server: +122334455
 send CLI +101234999100100
That is:
+1  =   Required valid international code
0   =   protocol identifier that never occurs in real calls.
1234=   pincode to identify the caller, and assign access rights. (Many 
different servers could send MCP (missed call protocol) messages to the same
phone, a bit like the bluetooth pincode/identifier)
999 =   matches 'update presence information'
1   =   GSM available.
0   =   GPRS offline
0   =   Bluetooth offline
1   =   SMS available
0   =   reserved
0   =   reserved.

What do you think?

Richard.







___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

RE: Push Email

[Graham Auld]

 Hey, sorry I didn't mean to knock what you're doing with tinymail, heck I
support it. It just happened to be today when I decided to chime in on the
push/talk to a phone from outside discussion.

Graham

-Original Message-
From: Philip Van Hoof [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 07 February 2007 09:30
To: Graham Auld
Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Push Email


Yes, The thing is that as the tinymail developer, I can't really anticipate
on things like this until they get decided and are known to me.

Well, that's not really true. I can, and have, anticipated 'the unknown'
in the design of tinymail. I frequently tell people "Change is among us",
well this again proves it definitely *IS*.

I anticipated in that the design flexible on how you implement the
observable's part of the game. That can be SyncML but, as you now can see,
also IMAP IDLE on the same thread and using the same connection as your
normal IMAP one.

Who knows tomorrow we will all get mail notification through some obscure
bits in the TCP/IP headers of the GPRS connection? And who knows will we
someday have to look at the VPI + VCI of ATM cells to know from which
provider the messages came? Whether or not it's possible, ATM isn't used for
phones, or whether it's a good solution is not really the point.

Well, not for tinymail. That's an implementation detail for tinymail.

The design that will cope with the event, which is the well known observer
pattern, will deal with it once the observable is implemented.

If you need a "Click" kernel module for that, to feed certain bits to the
application layer, then that's great.

I hope to make that message very clear in clarity ;). The IMAP IDLE support
is not a demo, no, but it's also not a statement: I'm not sticking to 'just'
IMAP IDLE. Tinymail could and 'will' cope with other Push E-Mail
notification methods. It's designed to do so. And it will.

So ... basically .. ( and forgive me for my direct & to the point style of
discussion. I don't mean anything anti-empathic with it :-p ) :

Please develop me the method for notifying your phones about messages over
the networks that will be used, give me the technical details, and let's
implement a libtinymail-openmoko platform specific library that deals with
this. Does that sound good? 

3..2..1 Go! :-)



On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 04:05 +, Graham Auld wrote:
> Looks fab, good work with tinymail!
> 
> Sadly I think the issue with OpenMoko/Neo - or any other mobile 
> handset for that matter - is that in order for any of these direct 
> delivery methods to work you have to notify the handset. This means 
> either maintaining an open TCP link over GPRS (or Bluetooth or wifi or 
> a usb cable but they don't count as I'm referring to on the road only 
> connected via phone network use) thereby allowing a channel over which 
> the mail server may send a notification of new mail or send the mail. 
> The real problems with this IMHO being power and comms blocking. Have 
> your phone connected all day via GPRS and I suspect it will use a fair bit
more power than not being connected.
> Also I'm given to understand that the GSM module in the Neo is only 
> capable of GPRS OR a phone call, so things get disturbed each time a 
> phonecall is made/recived.
> 
> Only other way I see of mail delivery without polling is to have some 
> notification method.
> 
> Now with something like the Neo it is quite feasable to have a 
> mailsever plugin/addon/write new mailserver from scratch... That could 
> send a specially formatted sms to my number when it had a mail for me 
> (probably also based on the importance of that message determined by a 
> little ruleset, router/server status reports and mailing lists aren't 
> usually urgent - a new job offer or 'meet in the pub in 5 mins' may be 
> a little more criticle). The phone could be programmed to intercept 
> such incomming SMS' and rather than play a cheesy tone and let you 
> read it, the phone could connect up, download your mail and then alert you
that there's something worth reading!
> 
> Ideally of course I could just run postfix (ok maybe something 
> slightly
> lighter) on my phone and my network provider could make 
> .gprs.vodafone.co.uk point to my handset :D Now I 
> havn't /actually/ asked vodafone yet but I've got this sneaking 
> suspicion that even if I do make it past 20 levels of callcenter 
> pleb/customer services to anyone vaguely technical they'd still not be 
> too keen...
> 
> I know someone's floated the idea of hidden/control SMS' on the list 
> before, under the guise of phone security and other things emaily too. 
> It does strike me as

Push Email

[Graham Auld]

Looks fab, good work with tinymail!

Sadly I think the issue with OpenMoko/Neo - or any other mobile handset for
that matter - is that in order for any of these direct delivery methods to
work you have to notify the handset. This means either maintaining an open
TCP link over GPRS (or Bluetooth or wifi or a usb cable but they don't count
as I'm referring to on the road only connected via phone network use)
thereby allowing a channel over which the mail server may send a
notification of new mail or send the mail. The real problems with this IMHO
being power and comms blocking. Have your phone connected all day via GPRS
and I suspect it will use a fair bit more power than not being connected.
Also I'm given to understand that the GSM module in the Neo is only capable
of GPRS OR a phone call, so things get disturbed each time a phonecall is
made/recived.

Only other way I see of mail delivery without polling is to have some
notification method.

Now with something like the Neo it is quite feasable to have a mailsever
plugin/addon/write new mailserver from scratch... That could send a
specially formatted sms to my number when it had a mail for me (probably
also based on the importance of that message determined by a little ruleset,
router/server status reports and mailing lists aren't usually urgent - a new
job offer or 'meet in the pub in 5 mins' may be a little more criticle). The
phone could be programmed to intercept such incomming SMS' and rather than
play a cheesy tone and let you read it, the phone could connect up, download
your mail and then alert you that there's something worth reading!

Ideally of course I could just run postfix (ok maybe something slightly
lighter) on my phone and my network provider could make
.gprs.vodafone.co.uk point to my handset :D
Now I havn't /actually/ asked vodafone yet but I've got this sneaking
suspicion that even if I do make it past 20 levels of callcenter
pleb/customer services to anyone vaguely technical they'd still not be too
keen...

I know someone's floated the idea of hidden/control SMS' on the list before,
under the guise of phone security and other things emaily too. It does
strike me as a "nice idea"(TM) however to define some format or paramater of
text that could by default be passed to an script handler in openmoko rather
than displayed as a text message. Perhaps the first 3 characters could be a
sequence of non-printables,
0x05 0x07 0x17  0x04 perhaps;
ASCII - Enquiry,bell,end transmission block,,end of transmission

Anyone for or against some such control message standard/quasi-standard?

I know there is a paramater in SMS' to indicate a flash message, I don't
know if there are any other paramters that are 'spare' that could be used to
indicate a control message, perhaps my scheme is flawed if there are
restrictions on the character set/data that can be transmitted in an SMS? My
current phone wouldn't let me enter hex strings when writing text's :'(


Sorry for rambling on

Graham


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philip Van Hoof
Sent: 07 February 2007 01:42
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Tinymail is now doing IMAP IDLE (Push E-mail)

Hi there guys,

Because you guys where so busy discussing how to do Push E-mail on the
OpenMoko device, I decided to just go ahead and implement it in that little
tinymail of mine.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFBqqdIghz0
http://tinymail.org/demos/tinymail_doing_lemonade_idle.mpg

http://pvanhoof.be/blog/index.php/2007/02/07/and-then-there-was-push-e-mail-
support-for-tinymail-imap-idle

Have fun


--
Philip Van Hoof, software developer
home: me at pvanhoof dot be
gnome: pvanhoof at gnome dot org
http://www.pvanhoof.be/blog





___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

RE: T-Mobile finagling advice?

[Graham Auld]

What country are you in?

If it's UK then you shouldn't have much of a problem with signal unless
you're in the wilds of Scotland :-)
Most if not all of the network providers also provide sim only options for
contracts or pay as you go services, not usually heavily advertised but
avaliable none the less.

If of course you're not in the UK then please ignore all of the above ;)

Graham

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Pfeiffer
Sent: 07 February 2007 01:34
To: Ben Burdette
Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re:T-Mobile finagling advice?

Ben Burdette writes:



>My question is, has anyone been through this process before, what's the 
>best way to find out how the service is?  I don't know anyone that has 
>a t mobile phone (maybe that should tell me something).  And the other 
>thing is, how would I get the neo1973 onto the t mobile network?  would 
>I have to get their cheapest phone and then remove the sim card to use 
>in the neo1973?  Is it possible to get the sim card without buying a t 
>mobile phone?

Based on what a T-Mobile salesdroid told me, it isn't possible to get their
service without a phone.  So my plan is to do as you suggest:
get their (actually, I haven't fully researched the GSM providers in my
area, so "they" may not be T-Mobile when the dust settles) cheapest phone,
move the sim chip.

___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

RE: Phone enhancements

[Graham Auld]

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bryce Leo
Sent: 29 January 2007 14:31
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: Phone enhancements

>  You'd have to be doing some serious zigzagging: resolution of GPS at 
> street level is about 50 meters...

Exactly the point!! if you're zig zaggin that much you definately need to
have the cops get called!

But on a serious note, how could it be 50 meters? That's about 165 feet...
in certain cases about 3 different roads... Most of the Garmin products are
at 1m/3feet resolution. I'm sure that most consumer devices are within about
2m/6ft. Do you have numbers that I don't in this case?

Bryce Leo

I'd have to agree on this one, I use GPS systems in several areas and
generally see resolutions between 2 and 10 meters on average with 5-6 sats
in use.

Granted to detect zig zags you'd need to be quite careful with how you used
the data, telling the difference between weaving and dodging pot holes...

Maybe I should light the touch paper and suggest this be a use for the
famous accelerometer that's been mentioned so much ;-)

Graham

___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

TomTom on OpenMoko

[Graham Auld]

Me too!
 
I currently run TomTom Navigator 6 on a Dell Axim X30 PDA. I tturns out all
i really ever use my pda for is the odd bit of calender, reading e-books and
in car sat nav. Clearly with the car kit for the Neo1973 and a (powered) USB
GPS I could replace my windows CE device with something a little more
flexible.
 
Eur 110/US$150 is right in the kind of area where i'd happily shell out even
for another copy just to have it on my OpenMoko/Neo, i'd nearly make that
just selling my old pda & GPS kit/cradle. I'm working in a shop just now
that sells a wide range of sat. nav. solutions and IMHO TomTom is by far the
best i've seen. Simple uncluttered intuitive user interface, looks slick,
hopefully like my new phone... :-)
 
Graham

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marc Verwerft
Sent: 15 January 2007 13:25
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: Real Neo1973 photo / Neo delayed...!?






>> If there's enough interest, it might be cool to just sell the mapping
data 
>> and see if we can support an open source mapping engineer. Is this
something
>> people would pay for?
>
> Yes, I would be interested in paying for car navigation software to run on
> the OpenMoko. 
> For reference, TomTom Navigator 6 for PDAs with maps for western europe on
> DVD is around EUR 110 (US $150)
>
> TomTom Go is Linux based, perhaps you can get them to offer their product
> for the OpenMoko? 
> I would be very interested in a solution for the OpenMoko at that price
range.


Count me in, too.


Regards,

Marc Verwerft




___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

RE: Using FM Radios without cables as PA for the Neo1973 - Question, in which countries is it legal to use 50 nW (nano Watt) FM87.5-108.0 Mhz transceiver?

[Graham Auld]

Ofcom in the UK are due to legalise them this month, it seems they've
decided on a standard which will allow these transmitters to be used in
future throught the EU AFAIK,
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2006/11/nr_20061123b

Graham 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Michel
Sent: 17 December 2006 17:11
To: OpenMoko
Subject: Using FM Radios without cables as PA for the Neo1973 - Question,in
which countries is it legal to use 50 nW (nano Watt) FM87.5-108.0 Mhz
transceiver?

Salve!

I haven't found a page with info in which contries 50 nW FM transceiver
would be legal to use - I know only that in Germany (mayby EU) owning and
using has become legal in spring 2006 (German official note):
http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/media/archive/5005.pdf

There are several small adaptors on the market, quite handy are the
solutions for the ipod:
http://ca.kensington.com/html/11648.html

This transceiver need 40mA - so in case tha Neo1973 would have an stereo mic
in with bias (I hope so) the Wolfson's bias would be with 2 x 3mA not enough
- the tranceiver would need a battery and would be bigger than the ipod
solutions.
Would a higher phantome power for the mic help?
Or a special solution for the mini-USB port to serve power, the audio signal
and maybe an I/O to select the frequency with the Neo1973?

Autotuning with help of the mic? Tune your radio to a "free"
frequency and start autotune that the Neo1973 let the tranceiver run from
87.5 to 108 untill audio software has detecte with the help of the audio-in
(mic) that the tranceiver has now the same frequency than the radio you are
using as PA for your Neo1973.

So the smartest solution would be an internal solution, it would make the
power supply and antenna question more easy and would have the posibility of
autotuning.


Otherwise selling propritary adapters are IMHO only profitable when there is
a big market for this propritary adapters (ipod)...


Comming to friends or to a kitchen, or just in the car and play music from
the Neo1973 via a FM stero radio is *very* usefull and sooner or later a
build in solution would be a great argument to sell smartphones.

Build in solution would bear problems to travell into countries that doesn't
allow this 50 nW transceiver.
-Would a software configuration help?
-Would be a hardware switch, removing of a jumper, removing of  a part of
the tranceiver circuit, rmoving of the tranceiver  itself necessary?

So can you contribute your know how in which contries (in yours?) are these
transceiver legal now?

Greetings,
rob


___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

FCC status for FIC Neo1973?

[Graham Auld]

fair point, things like the antenna type/positioning will affect rf
emmissions and i doubt the antenna is integral to the GSM unit.
 
but going back to the intent of the original question, i expect the neo will
be FCC approved so that it may be sold state side and i suspect FIC will be
selling the device as an end user product because as much as developers will
love and embrace it it's mass markets that bring in the money. Building a
phone with the sort of price they've quoted for the limited market of
hardware/software hackers just dosn't make financial sense.
 
I don't think Mr La Monte Henry Piggy Yarroll will have to worry about the
FCC procecuting him for owning a telephone in much the same way you wouldn't
have them chasing you for using a pda(open sauce naturally) with a serial
(over bluetooth probably) link to a GSM phone... 
 

Alternativly I advise moving from the US to the UK perhaps,  then you won't
have to worry about the FCC at all! ;-) (yes I know we have regulations here
too)
 
Graham


  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: 13 December 2006 23:22
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: FCC status for FIC Neo1973?


I'm no expert at all, but I do know that when we were designing a device
with a Kyocera m200 CDMA data module
(http://www.kyocera-wireless.com/m2m-business/index.htm), the module itself
was carrier (Sprint in our case) approved and FCC approved, but once we
incorporated it into our device, we then had to get it re-approved by the
carrier and the FCC (though it is typically an easier process when using an
approved module already).  I think the deciding factor may be whether the
module is "stand-alone" or not... But I say that with the disclaimer that I
could be completely wrong. :)

~Jeremy


- Original Message 
From: Graham Auld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 2:06:45 PM
Subject: FCC status for FIC Neo1973?


I wouldn't expect such an issue as i expect the GSM module will be correctly
certified and as access is via AT command set you /shouldn't/ be able to
make it do things it's not allowed to...
 
someone please correct me if i'm incorrect in my assumptions
 
Graham

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Andros
Sent: 13 December 2006 16:17
To: David Schlesinger
Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org; La Monte Henry Piggy Yarroll
Subject: Re: FCC status for FIC Neo1973?


>not to mention completely outside the terms of service of any major
carrier...?

a while ago, I spoke to both Cingular and T-Mob, I told them I was doing
some work with a gm-862, both said there was nothing in their service
restrictions about connecting with weird equipment like that 

--Jeff


On 12/13/06, David Schlesinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Do you mean "legal challenges" beyond its use being, strictly speaking, a
violation of Federal law, not to mention completely outside the terms of
service of any major carrier...?




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of La Monte Henry Piggy
Yarroll
Sent: Wed 12/13/2006 7:37 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: FCC status for FIC Neo1973?

Would anyone care to comment on the FCC status of the FIC Neo1973? In
particular, are there any legal challenges associated with using
prototypes on a live GSM network?

___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community






___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org 
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community






___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



  _  

Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo!
<http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1
NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx> Answers. Try it now. 
___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

FCC status for FIC Neo1973?

[Graham Auld]

I wouldn't expect such an issue as i expect the GSM module will be correctly
certified and as access is via AT command set you /shouldn't/ be able to
make it do things it's not allowed to...
 
someone please correct me if i'm incorrect in my assumptions
 
Graham

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Andros
Sent: 13 December 2006 16:17
To: David Schlesinger
Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org; La Monte Henry Piggy Yarroll
Subject: Re: FCC status for FIC Neo1973?


>not to mention completely outside the terms of service of any major
carrier...?

a while ago, I spoke to both Cingular and T-Mob, I told them I was doing
some work with a gm-862, both said there was nothing in their service
restrictions about connecting with weird equipment like that 

--Jeff


On 12/13/06, David Schlesinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Do you mean "legal challenges" beyond its use being, strictly speaking, a
violation of Federal law, not to mention completely outside the terms of
service of any major carrier...?




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of La Monte Henry Piggy
Yarroll
Sent: Wed 12/13/2006 7:37 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: FCC status for FIC Neo1973?

Would anyone care to comment on the FCC status of the FIC Neo1973? In
particular, are there any legal challenges associated with using
prototypes on a live GSM network?

___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community






___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org 
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community






___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community