Re: [Om2008.12] Adding swap space can stop app crashes
On Saturday 17 Jan 2009 12:51:10 pm Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:31:35 +0530 Kishore kitts.mailingli...@gmail.com babbled: http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv016.cgi?read=92882 (search for wear levelling - message # 4): Part of the SD spec is something called wear leveling. This attempts to spread writes out to previously unused physical sectors and maps them to their proper logical sector number. Properly implemented, you wont wear out a fixed directory sector. The spec and flash chips also supports bad block replacement. even openmoko's wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD SD cards are supposed to support wear leveling, but this can not be guaranteed for all vendors. :) i can keep hunting down more references - but its meant to be part of the spec. cards should do it - some may do it better than others (ie name brands - cost more, lifetime warranties), and some el-cheapo ones may skip it to cut costs. Thanks for the information. With such widespread use of USB flash drives which are really cheap and of large capacities I guess the technology has gotten cheaper. I recollect that the concept was called flash translation layer or something like that. Anyway, it also justifies the higher price paid for the bigger brands. A good reason for me to recommend the bigger brands over the many other cheaper ones in the market! :) On Saturday 17 Jan 2009 6:13:37 am Carsten Haitzler wrote: as such the sd-card should be doing wear-levelling for you as it maps logical to physical addresses and has an erase pool with extra blocks to play with. it can be improved by a better fs aware of the algorithms that card uses - but each card may be different depending on maker... wear-levelling is part of the spec for sd and hidden behind the sd access interface - so card manufacturer will determine quality of this... so spend your money wisely and get a good reputable sd card from the major names that come with lifetime warranties. Are you sure of this? I remember from a few years back for a project at work it was understood that compact flash was the only card that did wear levelling internally and that is why it also was so much more expensive. I know most of USB memory sticks do it these days so it cant be that expensive any more. If true then this is really good news. One will not need to bother too much with having to use a file system which does wear levelling for any project that uses a SD card. -- Cheers! Kishore signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Om2008.12] Adding swap space can stop app crashes
On Saturday 17 Jan 2009 6:13:37 am Carsten Haitzler wrote: as such the sd-card should be doing wear-levelling for you as it maps logical to physical addresses and has an erase pool with extra blocks to play with. it can be improved by a better fs aware of the algorithms that card uses - but each card may be different depending on maker... wear-levelling is part of the spec for sd and hidden behind the sd access interface - so card manufacturer will determine quality of this... so spend your money wisely and get a good reputable sd card from the major names that come with lifetime warranties. Are you sure of this? I remember from a few years back for a project at work it was understood that compact flash was the only card that did wear levelling internally and that is why it also was so much more expensive. I know most of USB memory sticks do it these days so it cant be that expensive any more. If true then this is really good news. One will not need to bother too much with having to use a file system which does wear levelling for any project that uses a SD card. -- Cheers! Kishore signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Monday 08 Dec 2008 2:32:00 am Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Sun, Dec 07, 2008 at 03:11:46PM -0500, Warren Baird wrote: On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Christoph Siegenthaler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Slowly but steadily my enthusiasm for the FR is vanishing. I was at least hoping to be able to use my freerunner as a basic phone after 5 months... Sorry if I'm repeating myself here - but try QTExtended 4.4.2 - it's not perfect, and I do miss having all of the funky X based software from the OM2008 based stacks, but as a basic phone, it works quite well, and I get 36-48 hour battery life... I never had that battery life with qtextended, mainly because of the White Screen of Death (which is solved in testing). Maybe it has something to do with hardware revisions. I get the same kind of battery life. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Xlib (was :The forbidden topic: Glamo OpenGL)
On Monday 17 Nov 2008 11:24:55 am John Lee wrote: On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 10:05:16AM +1100, Carsten Haitzler wrote: x's internals are definitely up for improvement - callium3d is there to try and fix this by providing a better more organised and better accelerated driver layer - but again - they aren't going to replace x... just clean up internals. what it means is - the rest of us can continue happily writing x apps and just wait for an improvement to pop out the pipeline. indeed x's internal acceleration layer could be improved. it has in the past (especially with xaa) proved an impediment if you have to code AT the driver layer. as such - x was originally designs (as a system - not specifically the xorg tree etc.) to allow full freedom to implement the internals of x any way you like - so as such if you wanted to spend the effort x could accelerate just about everything as long as hardware can do it, somehow - but the points at which that acceleration knowledge need to go into might be much higher up than xaa/exa. you'd have to write a forked x with all sorts of hooks higher up. - but it's possible... and then x client work as they always did - and get more use of the hardware :) MicroXwin ? http://www.microxwin.com/ MicroXwin is binary compatible to the Xlib API. However it is niether client server nor network oriented. Graphics operations are implemented in the linux kernel via a kernel module. An open source Xlib library sends graphics commands to the kernel. There is no network overhead and no context switch from X client to X server. This makes our solution smaller and faster than traditional X Windows. Looks good and is a direct binary compatible replacement. Perhaps the proprietary licence for the kernel module is what is keeping it from being used? -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buzzing (was :The forbidden topic: Glamo OpenGL)
On Saturday 15 Nov 2008 3:19:10 pm Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 07:22:29 + Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On 15 Nov 2008, at 07:08, Kishore wrote: On Friday 14 Nov 2008 8:13:20 pm Gothnet wrote: Also, I know everyone loves X, but is it really the best choice for a low powered device that needs a responsive UI? ... I still would like to know more in terms of performance and memory consumption and scalability. You guys should search some of Raster's previous posts on this subject. Although you may have to go through quite a lot of posts to find his comments (!), I think you will find he has stated more than once that the performance of X is much maligned (as long as programmers are sensible and use appropriate practices). indeed it is. i have seen x (+efl) drastically (by many times) outperform directfb - on the same device. every time someone thinks that the ui sucks and the solution is dump x it is almost always from a position of lack of knowledge just what is the cause of the problem. a bit of analysis and you'll find the problem is almost always one (or more) of 1. just bad hardware (affects everyone x and others) 2. incomplete or just bad drivers (not x itself and the same problem will happen anywhere you try and accelerate so if its within x or somewhere else - same problem). 3. simple bad x apps or toolkits doing things badly, inefficiently or just trying to do things in a way that just reacts badly with the target hardware. whatever you do in replacing x - you will just replace it with the same thing under a different name. you won't improve or solve anything, as long as you want to have more than 1 process be able to display. if it's only one, dumb-fb is an option but you still need to then do the whole toolkit so see the above problem list. and you just lost multi-process access, lost a lot of support for a lot of toolkits, apps etc. if you want to x CAN be used as a dumb-fb with little extra overhead. if you really want to sink a lot of time i can go into gory detail one thing at a time... but you can also just search these lists and save me the effort :) x gives you the ability to share input devices (kbd, ts, etc.) and share the screen. you want that. it is not big and fat. it is rather small and lean. extensions exist to do just about everything. very little does not exist in some x extension these days. Raster! Wow! Thanks for the detailed response. Really good to know :) Well, I certainly do not think that direct fb is a better option over X. It sure is crippling to not have multiple apps have access to the screen while not having to know about the others existence. What i was considering was X itself and its overhead. Its good to know that X does not add much overhead. I first got thinking about this when reading about gallium3d. I do recollect reading that the developers were developing it with hope to replace *most* of X and use X only as an interface/API. The reason for this they said was that X was bad. Now, I do not personally know much about this. But it is of academic interest to me. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buzzing (was :The forbidden topic: Glamo OpenGL)
On Friday 14 Nov 2008 8:13:20 pm Gothnet wrote: Also, I know everyone loves X, but is it really the best choice for a low powered device that needs a responsive UI? I am just curious about this. I hope someone can comment on this. My thought is that X is used because most apps that already exist on the desktop can be used here and the applications remain portable. I still would like to know more in terms of performance and memory consumption and scalability. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QT Extended] Observersation on QtE 4.4.2
On Wednesday 12 Nov 2008 1:15:35 am Pander wrote: QtE also has way better battery life than anything else I've tried - I can go 36 hours or more without having to plug in the phone. really, mine is out of power in about 8 hours :( but I'm using 4.4.2 with mwester's kernel. Be doubly sure that wifi is not enabled. If ever once enabled, you need to reboot or wifi never really goes off even if the GUI says so. With wifi on I get about 5-6 hrs but otherwise I echo Warren's experience. Battery comfortably last over 48 hrs. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: distro woes
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 5:43 AM, Franky Van Liedekerke [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Hi, today I decided to give qtextended another go, but the wiki page mentions some things I couldn't figure out in the end: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_/_Qt_Extended_on_FreeRunner links to http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-November/035245.html that says to use a certain remade qtextended rootfs with the latest mwester kernel. And I wonder which kernel that would be: the stable one mentioned on http://moko.mwester.net/dl.html#kernels (from 3 Oct), or the stable one mentioned on http://moko.mwester.net/download/ (from 4 Nov)? I currently use the one from 3 Oct and it works fine. I wasn't aware of the new version until now but ill give it a try. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QT Extended] Observersation on QtE 4.4.2
On Thursday 06 Nov 2008 5:19:21 pm Chris Samuel wrote: On Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:10:52 pm Chris Samuel wrote: In fact *incoming* calls sound like they're using the external speaker by default (and hence get lots of feedback), in contrast to outgoing ones that sound just great. I've just tested that and it is indeed the case. When I get an incoming call the phone is set to speaker phone not handset! I'm going to try the new image with the ringtones on it in case that makes any difference.. I use the rootfs image posted by Hypnotize along with the mwester kernel (and modules). I use the gsmhandset.state file that was posted here some time ago. With this combination, I have a usable phone and calls are taken with the handset and not speaker (as used to be the case with the 4.4.1 release). -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QT Extended] Observersation on QtE 4.4.2
On Thursday 06 Nov 2008 5:56:58 pm Chris Samuel wrote: On Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:10:05 pm Kishore wrote: I use the gsmhandset.state file that was posted here some time ago. With this combination, I have a usable phone and calls are taken with the handset and not speaker (as used to be the case with the 4.4.1 release). I ran into the same issue with the newer image so I'll have to go dig through the archives to find that (only been on this list a short time, though I've had the phone since September), thanks for the pointer! Anyone have a link handy ? I am attaching it here. The only issue i have with it is that the volume is sometimes too low for me hear the other person clear but is fine when in a quite environment. I really wish the call handling application (what is it called?) had a volume adjustment in the UI for use while during a call. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QT Extended] Observersation on QtE 4.4.2
On Thursday 06 Nov 2008 8:52:14 pm Kishore wrote:
On Thursday 06 Nov 2008 5:56:58 pm Chris Samuel wrote:
On Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:10:05 pm Kishore wrote:
I use the gsmhandset.state file that was posted here some time ago.
With this combination, I have a usable phone and calls are taken with
the handset and not speaker (as used to be the case with the 4.4.1
release).
I ran into the same issue with the newer image so I'll have to go dig
through the archives to find that (only been on this list a short time,
though I've had the phone since September), thanks for the pointer!
Anyone have a link handy ?
I am attaching it here. The only issue i have with it is that the volume is
sometimes too low for me hear the other person clear but is fine when in a
quite environment. I really wish the call handling application (what is it
called?) had a volume adjustment in the UI for use while during a call.
As is a classic case, I missed the attachment! ;)
--
Cheers!
Kishore
state.neo1973gta02 {
control.1 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 2
comment.range '0 - 255'
iface MIXER
name 'PCM Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.2 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 2
comment.range '0 - 255'
iface MIXER
name 'ADC Capture Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.3 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 2
comment.range '0 - 127'
iface MIXER
name 'Headphone Playback Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.4 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 2
comment.range '0 - 127'
iface MIXER
name 'Speaker Playback Volume'
value.0 100
value.1 100
}
control.5 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 1
comment.range '0 - 127'
iface MIXER
name 'Mono Playback Volume'
value 85
}
control.6 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 2
comment.range '0 - 7'
iface MIXER
name 'Bypass Playback Volume'
value.0 7
value.1 7
}
control.7 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 2
comment.range '0 - 7'
iface MIXER
name 'Sidetone Playback Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.8 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 2
comment.range '0 - 7'
iface MIXER
name 'Voice Playback Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.9 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
comment.count 2
iface MIXER
name 'Headphone Playback ZC Switch'
value.0 false
value.1 false
}
control.10 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
comment.count 2
iface MIXER
name 'Speaker Playback ZC Switch'
value.0 false
value.1 false
}
control.11 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 1
comment.range '0 - 7'
iface MIXER
name 'Mono Bypass Playback Volume'
value 0
}
control.12 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 1
comment.range '0 - 7'
iface MIXER
name 'Mono Sidetone Playback Volume'
value 5
}
control.13 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 1
comment.range '0 - 7'
iface MIXER
name 'Mono Voice Playback Volume'
value 0
}
control.14 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
Re: QtExtended 4.4.2 Changes?
On Wednesday 05 Nov 2008 2:56:48 pm Adam Kasjanowicz wrote: On Wednesday 05 Nov 2008 9:51:08 am Kishore wrote: On Monday 03 Nov 2008 1:06:49 am Hypnotize wrote: I made a working qtextended version 4.4.2 image for GTA02 here: http://other.lastnetwork.net/OpenMoko/qtextended-4.4.2-gta02-rootfs-relea se -working.jffs2 Bluetooth works and yes the bouncing calypso modem fix is included.. Use the latest mwester kernel from http://moko.mwester.net/dl.html#kernels Morten, I tried your update and now bluetooth works. Thanks. However, the phone still does not ring on call and the media player does not play. It begins playback but then the progress bar does not move and there is no audio. This was the same in the qte release too. The mwester kernel that is provided with 4.4.2 release appears to be the same as that available from mwester site so i did not reflash it. Will try that too... Sorry, the kernel provided with 4.4.2 is a testing kernel. Anyway, i flashed the mwester kernel and copied the modules too. Still it does not work. I am running qte from NAND if that matters. Make Documents folder in home dir, put some ringtones and change profile settings. or change path to wav files in /home/root/Settings/Trolltech/PhoneProfile.conf I noticed that /opt/Trolltech/Qtopia/etc/SystemRingTones is missing in the 4.4.2 release. I copied this folder from the old release and it works now. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QtExtended 4.4.2 Changes?
On Monday 03 Nov 2008 1:06:49 am Hypnotize wrote: I made a working qtextended version 4.4.2 image for GTA02 here: http://other.lastnetwork.net/OpenMoko/qtextended-4.4.2-gta02-rootfs-release -working.jffs2 Bluetooth works and yes the bouncing calypso modem fix is included.. Use the latest mwester kernel from http://moko.mwester.net/dl.html#kernels Morten, I tried your update and now bluetooth works. Thanks. However, the phone still does not ring on call and the media player does not play. It begins playback but then the progress bar does not move and there is no audio. This was the same in the qte release too. The mwester kernel that is provided with 4.4.2 release appears to be the same as that available from mwester site so i did not reflash it. Will try that too... -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QtExtended 4.4.2 Changes?
On Wednesday 05 Nov 2008 9:51:08 am Kishore wrote: On Monday 03 Nov 2008 1:06:49 am Hypnotize wrote: I made a working qtextended version 4.4.2 image for GTA02 here: http://other.lastnetwork.net/OpenMoko/qtextended-4.4.2-gta02-rootfs-relea se -working.jffs2 Bluetooth works and yes the bouncing calypso modem fix is included.. Use the latest mwester kernel from http://moko.mwester.net/dl.html#kernels Morten, I tried your update and now bluetooth works. Thanks. However, the phone still does not ring on call and the media player does not play. It begins playback but then the progress bar does not move and there is no audio. This was the same in the qte release too. The mwester kernel that is provided with 4.4.2 release appears to be the same as that available from mwester site so i did not reflash it. Will try that too... Sorry, the kernel provided with 4.4.2 is a testing kernel. Anyway, i flashed the mwester kernel and copied the modules too. Still it does not work. I am running qte from NAND if that matters. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QtExtended 4.4.2 Changes?
On Friday 31 Oct 2008 10:06:38 pm Maelvon HAWK wrote: Ben Cadieux a écrit : Hi Everyone, It seems 4.4.2 was released today; as usual, there is no summary of changes below the download link. Does anyone know what was changed? Don't know exactly what was changed. But I've tested the previous versions 4.3 4.2 and they always freeze after a short period of use. This time I've flashed it on my GTA02, and it seems to works well. A little too speed with the finger scrolling Those apparently came in with 4.4.1. It would be nice to know what changed from 4.4.1 though. I just flashed it and did not find anything obvious in the last hour that I have been using it. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: suspend quality (was: Re: [FDOM] best kernel to use for new release)
On Tuesday 28 Oct 2008 1:43:09 pm Richy wrote: qtextended an one mwester-kernel had standby-time of several days, if you never turn on wifi My experience matches this and it gives me hope that it is indeed possible to make the FR battery last longer. Typically, with about 10-15 mins of talking per day, I loose about one bar for 24 hrs! Sot that's about 3 to 4 days of battery life! But then sometimes (just sometimes) that it does not suspend automatically and battery drains rapidly. There is no way to manually suspend the FR (without the CLI) and reboot is the only way to set that straight. If you turn on wifi once, it appears that it does not really turn off ever until a reboot and again battery drains rapidly. I find qtextended very usable as a daily phone; now only if it would default to headset instead of speaker phone when answering calls... :( -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Android open sourced
On Wednesday 22 Oct 2008 10:16:55 pm Andy Selby wrote: Since i got my neo rather recently, i have only tried 4.4.1. Is 4.3 still the better choice? A couple of days ago i lost my daily use phone (motoming A1200) and so i now need to use the FR as my daily phone. 4.3 is usable as a daily phone for me (YMMV),rock solid suspend and resume, no dialer issues. 4.4.1 is a bit unstable for daily use. I have been on with 4.3 for almost a day now. The moment i try to make a call it crashes. I am able to receive calls fine. I did have to change the gsmhandset.state file to prevent the echo. 4.4.1 never really crashed but has bugs like my inability to save a number to the contacts list from the call logs. Is that part of the contacts application? The contacts application is much more usable too with the alphabets on the right. 4.4 also has the inertial scrolling improvement which makes it really easy to browse contacts but its buggy with the touchscreen that registers far too many accidental clicks while scrolling. I am now tending towards 4.4 i really hope there is an update soon that fixes the obvious bugs. Anything expected soon? -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
using the FR as a daily phone
On Friday 24 Oct 2008 4:44:55 pm Vasco Névoa wrote: Citando Kishore [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Since i got my neo rather recently, i have only tried 4.4.1. Is 4.3 still the better choice? A couple of days ago i lost my daily use phone (motoming A1200) and so i now need to use the FR as my daily phone. I've been using ASU (OM2008.9) since the beginning as my daily and only phone for months now, without great problems. It stinks for SMS texting, and it is a PITA to find a contact on the list (both of these are bad designs of Qtopia), but otherwise it does the job well. The only big problem is a denial-of-service that happens because os resume problems... sometimes I get an SMS or some other event that wakes up the phone, and if I don't touch the screen, it stays awake until the battery dies. This is why sometimes I wake up to a dead phone, even though I went to bed leaving it almost fully charged. :( Don't you find it a little too slow to really work with? Or is it only me? It almost tests my patience. qtextended is rather fast. Since, i use this now as my primary phone i thought id try the available distributions to see what i can use on a daily basis. I tried ASU which was rather bare as is meant to be and still slower than my patience. Then i tried the older FDOM which atleast demos the capability of the device but suffers the same slowness as the ASU. I am now about to try the latest ASU which my work well but i do not expect much in terms of speed. Next, ill try the qtopia 4.3 since i have heard it is more stable. Does the ASU ship with same qtopia applications? If it does than qtextended defenitely has better usability. Actually, i find qtextended to be quit stable except that it suffers bugs that make it annoying to use. Is qtextended (x11) available on debian? I found debian to be fast! My dream setup would be qtextended on x11 running on debian. I am generally fond of debian and Qt too. I use the KDE desktop and do software development with Qt and my daytime job is in the low level embedded (bare metal) space. Ps. Is there developer documentation that explains details? I see files like the gsmhandset.state and im not sure how all this works? clearly all the distributions for the FR seem to use the same file concept but im not sure this is a freedesktop.org standard either. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: using the FR as a daily phone
On Friday 24 Oct 2008 7:58:59 pm Kishore wrote: Ps. Is there developer documentation that explains details? I see files like the gsmhandset.state and im not sure how all this works? clearly all the distributions for the FR seem to use the same file concept but im not sure this is a freedesktop.org standard either. OK that file is part of alsa and details seem to be documented at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_1973_audio_subsystem I must spend more time reading through the wiki! ;) -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Android open sourced
On Wednesday 22 Oct 2008 4:38:31 am Lorn Potter wrote: Jim Morris wrote: Lorn Potter wrote: Jim Morris wrote: Cédric Berger wrote: Just because 4.4.1 might be unstable doesn't mean qt extended will always be that way. It just means that 4.4.1 was buggier than expected. Oh I know it will get better, I was just disappointed it was less stable than the previous version. We all were. The truth is, 4.4.1 was pushed out before it was ready. But it couldn't be helped. Since i got my neo rather recently, i have only tried 4.4.1. Is 4.3 still the better choice? A couple of days ago i lost my daily use phone (motoming A1200) and so i now need to use the FR as my daily phone. which I had blown away to try 4.4.1 I couldn't really use 4.4.1 of QtEtended as it seemed to hang all the time as well as other issues which I'm sure you are aware of. (Scrolling through lists usually thinks you are selecting something you don't want etc). I'll continue to try the new versions of 4.4 as they come out, but in the meantime playing with Android seems like a good use of my time ;) I'll use whichever one ends up being a usable phone soonest. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: LED notification
On Friday 17 Oct 2008 8:16:10 pm Michael wrote: On 16/10/08 16:52:10, Andy Green wrote: Somebody in the thread at some point said: | (The first message I sent does not seem to have arrived) | | On 12/10/08 18:00:55, Andy Green wrote: | Yes always-on MPU can deliver consistent power behaviours we can't do | in | our current way of relying on PMU. You would basically make the PMU | a | slave of the MPU. Stuff like debricking scheme for a programmable | and | so brickable MPU that controls the PMU... needs careful thought. | | -Andy | | That shouldn't be a problem, because microcontrollers support in | circuit serial programming, so just make sure we can get to those pins | and have a doc that specifies the programming protocol for the brave. The issue is that if we allow user-updateable MPU, it can always be bricked. So for example we put out a new package with some MPU update that is broken, suddenly many devices could be bricked before we pull it. We definitely need some credible sequence of actions for the end-user that can unbrick the devices. Just telling him where some pins are doesn't really cut it. If the MPU is master of the CPU, then when it is bricked a lot of assets we might otherwise call on are unavailable. So it needs thinking through being aware of specific capabilities of the MPU. Should have mentioned that I have flashed microcontrollers for various projects that I am doing, so this was just meant for people who are used to this sort of thing rather than end users. I think you would probably want to leave MCU updates to the distributors or people who have done this sort of thing before and I suppose you would need a nano boot loader if you wanted to flash the MCU from user space (if microcontrollers that small will allow you to rewrite the flash from code). Indeed this is the method we follow for microcontrollers that may need firmware upgrade after deployment. the controller itself has a small boot loader that can only be modified with a hardware programmer. This basic boot loader can be used to flash the firmware that acts as the Linux boot loader. Of course, this may require that the USB port be multiplexed so the microcontroller is connected to it at boot and the main controller takes over later. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Qtextended]Mapping demo maps
On Sunday 12 Oct 2008 6:28:38 pm Federico Di Lodovico wrote: On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 12:02 PM, julien cubizolles [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: How do you configure the source for the mapping demo maps. Right now I can get a fix Where have you get the fix ? In my case it seems to forever stay Connected, waiting for a fix... -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Qtextended]Mapping demo maps
On Sunday 12 Oct 2008 7:54:45 pm Kishore wrote: On Sunday 12 Oct 2008 6:28:38 pm Federico Di Lodovico wrote: On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 12:02 PM, julien cubizolles [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: How do you configure the source for the mapping demo maps. Right now I can get a fix Where have you get the fix ? In my case it seems to forever stay Connected, waiting for a fix... Sorry, I spoke too early, It took a while but it does work. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: LED notification
On Saturday 11 Oct 2008 7:25:38 pm Sam Kuper wrote: 2008/10/11 Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well you can simply wake and do event type actions like vibrate and flash LEDs then, the stimulus you are responding to like incoming call will be a CPU wake event so that lot will work. What can't be done (because of a completely Linux-centric POV in the design) is anything while the CPU is off in suspend. We can leave a LED on during suspend, but there is no intelligence to flash it or whatever. So while the CPU is awake, it can set the state of the LEDs, etc, and then when it suspends, that state will remain unchanged? That actually doesn't sound *so* limiting. I guess that ultimately it would be nice if the states that you could leave the indicators in included cyclic states - flash once every 2 seconds, for instance. This could perhaps be handled by a *very* basic microcontroller to which the CPU would devolve responsibility for managing the indicators. This would increase the richness of the hardware UI provide developers/users with many more options for how the phone would behave in the suspend state. This is evidently the sort of thing the I2C LED drivers you mentioned above would be used for, but by indicators, I'm thinking of not just the LEDs but also the vibrator, screen backlight speakers. So something like a QFN PIC might be more appropriate than just an LED driver (although maybe an LED driver could be interfaced to non-LED indicators; I'm not sure). It's great to hear OpenMoko might introduce this sort of extra circuitry into the next generation of OM phones. It would be awesome if it was implemented as a retrofittable PCB for the FR, though I guess this would be pretty hard to achieve. So overall it's not quite as bad as it sounded I hope. No, it isn't. I'm still not totally sure I want to spend ~400GBP on the FR+debug board just yet, but I'm much closer to doing so. Thanks for your quick reply, In addition, i would recommend a look a look at multimedia functions. If the device were to play music (mp3) if there were ways to be more power efficient. Currently, i think this would consume a lot of power. For the LED's, does the processor support PWM output in hardware? With the many smaller processors that i use, the PWM output continues to be active when the processor is in power saving mode. Of course, even the PWM output stop when the processor is in the power down mode. This is just a thought. I have not seen the processor datasheet yet. But i agree with Sam and think that using one of the ultra low power micron controller such as one of the AVR pico series will allow greater flexibility with the ability to make it function like the device BIOS as well and upgrade its firmware if and when necessary. This could also help the battery charging problem when powered down! -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
/etc/resolv.conf with qt extended
What does the GUI in qt extended use when connecting on wifi? For me after using the GUI /etc/resolv.conf would always end up empty. ifup eth0 does the right thing and populated it correctly. Today used the GUI and repeatedly did a cat /etc/resolv.conf over ssh. I notice that it does get populated correctly but then something happens and its empty. Any reasoning/fixes for this behavior? -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SPAM] Re: kernel for qt extended 4.4
On Friday 03 Oct 2008 11:29:39 am Lorn Potter wrote: Kishore wrote: On Friday 03 Oct 2008 4:46:45 am Lorn Potter wrote: Franky Van Liedekerke wrote: On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 19:43:23 +0200 Petr Vanek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No problem here. I reflashed previous QT snapshot 4.3 so i presume if you use kernel from 4.3 you are ready to go. unless...I was also looking at the services screen or what it's called in QT4.4 so i might have activated USB networking by an accident and it's kernel independent? Check it out anyways. hmmm ... I'm guessing that image isn't the official released one, too many bugs (old and new): - lots of kernel-warnings spit out during booting (using uImage-gta02-mwester-stable-d6f9fd270943fb22.bin from I believe the previous 4.3.x snapshot version). Or maybe this is a uimage issue? yes, this has nothng to do with qtextended. I get plenty of errors with regard to splash plugin not found. Seems like there should have been a splash screen that is trying to be updated but then it does not exist. And yes, boot it still slow. thats because I removed that, but some script is still trying to use it. It's harmless OK. Harmless but still looks bad but no issue really. - timezone management isn't working (the files just aren't there in /usr/share/timezone). Also the time itself can't be changed. hmmm... indeed. sorry. I will update with a new image. I hope it will be possible to just upgrade from the current install i just spent a few hours setting up the moko, transferring contacts etc. (My previous motoming phone does not have an export all feature) ok. I will put up a ipkg of the needed zoneinfo files. Thanks! - echo problem is back odd. I put in a SIM to test. Neither I nor the other side experience any echo. - alarm keeps vibrating the phone, after pressing snooze - each received call arrives twice, causing the second call to show up as missed also odd. I haven't seen this. When i answer a call it does register the same call as a missed call too. I have another issue where if the call was from an unknown contact and i wish to add to my contacts list, it would ask me if i want to create a new contact and there touch screen does not respond to my input on either of yes or no or elsewhere. I have to press the AUX button to recover. Also when i choose to delete data from the call history, it okays my input but does not delete the entry. The image is called 4.4.1, but my phone reports it as 4.4.2 ... I thought it was going to be 4.4.3? Thats because its really a snapshot. which is just 4.4.1 + a few bug fixes. I do not use the FR as my primary phone yet so have not tested how well it manages calls. Ps: Lorn, In your blog post for today, you mention dynamic rotation. Does that mean it adjusts based on accelerometer reading? I could only find one application where i had to tap on the screen to make it rotate. We have not done anything with motion sensors yet. So it is not automatic rotation on the Neo. OK, Is there an API that one can use to write a small script daemon? -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
kernel for qt extended 4.4
I downloaded the rootfs image for qt extended and flashed it to the rootfs partition. I previously had FDOM installed so basically this must have overwritten it. The kernel image was not available so i guess im still using the image i flashed from FDOM. It works but is somewhat flaky. No USB networking and so no SSH. Something is not right here and im guessing it is all because of the kernel image. So where do i get the suitable kernel image or how do i have to go about it? -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: kernel for qt extended 4.4
On Thursday 02 Oct 2008 9:40:59 pm Nicola Mfb wrote: 2008/10/2 Kishore [EMAIL PROTECTED] I downloaded the rootfs image for qt extended and flashed it to the rootfs partition. I previously had FDOM installed so basically this must have overwritten it. The kernel image was not available so i guess im still using the image i flashed from FDOM. It works but is somewhat flaky. No USB networking and so no SSH. Something is not right here and im guessing it is all because of the kernel image. So where do i get the suitable kernel image or how do i have to go about it? I can ping the phone, but no ssh (connection refused). Launching dropbear from terminal seg faults Same here -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SPAM] Re: kernel for qt extended 4.4
On Thursday 02 Oct 2008 11:53:46 pm Franky Van Liedekerke wrote: On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 19:43:23 +0200 Petr Vanek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No problem here. I reflashed previous QT snapshot 4.3 so i presume if you use kernel from 4.3 you are ready to go. unless...I was also looking at the services screen or what it's called in QT4.4 so i might have activated USB networking by an accident and it's kernel independent? Check it out anyways. hmmm ... I'm guessing that image isn't the official released one, too many bugs (old and new): - lots of kernel-warnings spit out during booting (using uImage-gta02-mwester-stable-d6f9fd270943fb22.bin from I believe the previous 4.3.x snapshot version). Or maybe this is a uimage issue? - timezone management isn't working (the files just aren't there in /usr/share/timezone). Also the time itself can't be changed. - echo problem is back - alarm keeps vibrating the phone, after pressing snooze - each received call arrives twice, causing the second call to show up as missed The image is called 4.4.1, but my phone reports it as 4.4.2 ... I thought it was going to be 4.4.3? Yup! I have all of those issues you mention. Anyway, USB networking is now working after i flashed mwester kernel. I am able to ssh but i cannot connect to the internet. ping google.com gives me ping: bad address 'google.com'. I checked /etc/resolv.conf and it is empty. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: kernel for qt extended 4.4
On Friday 03 Oct 2008 1:33:01 am Franky Van Liedekerke wrote: Yup! I have all of those issues you mention. Anyway, USB networking is now working after i flashed mwester kernel. I am able to ssh but i cannot connect to the internet. ping google.com gives me ping: bad address 'google.com'. I checked /etc/resolv.conf and it is empty. Fix the resolv issue by putting the line nameserver A.B.C.D in your /etc/resolv.conf (A.B.C.D being the IP of your own nameserver). Always needed for usb connections. But still ... too many issues found in 2 minutes of testing for this to be stable. Yes thats what i did but i have to do this *every* time i connect even over wifi because the file seems to get overwritten. Something is wrong here as i use dhcp on the network and resolv.conf should automatically update to the gateway. It does seem to update but with a blank! -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SPAM] Re: kernel for qt extended 4.4
On Friday 03 Oct 2008 4:46:45 am Lorn Potter wrote: Franky Van Liedekerke wrote: On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 19:43:23 +0200 Petr Vanek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No problem here. I reflashed previous QT snapshot 4.3 so i presume if you use kernel from 4.3 you are ready to go. unless...I was also looking at the services screen or what it's called in QT4.4 so i might have activated USB networking by an accident and it's kernel independent? Check it out anyways. hmmm ... I'm guessing that image isn't the official released one, too many bugs (old and new): - lots of kernel-warnings spit out during booting (using uImage-gta02-mwester-stable-d6f9fd270943fb22.bin from I believe the previous 4.3.x snapshot version). Or maybe this is a uimage issue? yes, this has nothng to do with qtextended. I get plenty of errors with regard to splash plugin not found. Seems like there should have been a splash screen that is trying to be updated but then it does not exist. And yes, boot it still slow. - timezone management isn't working (the files just aren't there in /usr/share/timezone). Also the time itself can't be changed. hmmm... indeed. sorry. I will update with a new image. I hope it will be possible to just upgrade from the current install i just spent a few hours setting up the moko, transferring contacts etc. (My previous motoming phone does not have an export all feature) - echo problem is back odd. - alarm keeps vibrating the phone, after pressing snooze - each received call arrives twice, causing the second call to show up as missed also odd. I haven't seen this. The image is called 4.4.1, but my phone reports it as 4.4.2 ... I thought it was going to be 4.4.3? Thats because its really a snapshot. which is just 4.4.1 + a few bug fixes. I do not use the FR as my primary phone yet so have not tested how well it manages calls. Ps: Lorn, In your blog post for today, you mention dynamic rotation. Does that mean it adjusts based on accelerometer reading? I could only find one application where i had to tap on the screen to make it rotate. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Is it bottle neck in X or the kernel?
My question here is: Is it X or is it the kernel that is the weak link that sometimes make the FR painfully slow to operate? I now have qtextended 4.4.1 installed with the 4.3.2 release's kernel and the UI is really fast! When i first flashed 4.4.1 rootfs, i still had the kernel from FDOM and while the UI was first on first boot it became slow over time. FDOM was slow from the start. Debian with XFCE OTOH was pretty fast and the change in kernel for qtextended made significant difference so i am thinking the slowness is likely kernel related. Now with qtextended i still have a somewhat flaky audio playback. I have not tried video! I would appreciate anyone throwing more light on the issue. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Success with debian install! few how to questions...
I have successfully installed debian and its pretty exciting. I have xfce currently installed. I have a few questions though that i post below. 1) How do i right click on the screen? Many applications require a right click for configuration and besides, right now with the matchbox window manager i cannot even exit an application that lacks a menu! 2) Can i install and use the phone and PIM applications available from 2008.x? I prefer the contacts, messages etc apps from there. I also prefer the keyboard that comes with FDOM. Thanks in advance. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New to Freerunner!!
On Friday 26 Sep 2008 9:49:25 pm Federico Lorenzi wrote: On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 4:03 AM, Kishore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new to this community. I just got myself the freerunner a couple of days back. I am a fairly experienced user of Linux/Debian/Kubuntu on the desktop and this is my first experience with something like the freerunner. Maybe you would be interested in Debian on the Freerunner? If it will give me the basic functionality then i would love that as i would feel at home when administering it! Hopefully it is also well supported! -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New to Freerunner!!
On Friday 26 Sep 2008 8:56:29 pm Shawn prjktdtnt Thompson wrote: Kishore wrote: Currently downloading image So i should use the same kernel image as the 2008.8 but only reflash the rootfs i presume? FDOM does look interesting. I flashed both myself and haven't had any major problems, every now and then I'll have to reboot or it may get stuck in suspend but nothing major and not often either. Flashed FDOM and at least i get to experience some of the hardware features! Wifi connection appeared to have been successful but was unable to browse the net. GPS worked though! Overall feels slow especially when starting apps. Ps: When using the default keyboard layout in a terminal, after typing, how does one input the Enter key? -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
New to Freerunner!!
I am new to this community. I just got myself the freerunner a couple of days back. I am a fairly experienced user of Linux/Debian/Kubuntu on the desktop and this is my first experience with something like the freerunner. Anyway i am happy with the hardware and i have been through the wiki and am still trying to make my way through the amount of information available in there. The first thing i did after the free runner landed was i reflashed the firmware to the 2008.8. I have it boothing but i have not go tit to do anything useful. Wifi does not connect and the GPS does not work. There exists no filemanager/ media player by default and so essentially i still have nothing usable. I would appreciate anyone guiding me or pointing me to a location where i can get the needed information. What i need to being is 1) Get the wifi to connect. It currently invariably always says something like Error: Unable to connect to the network 2) Get my GPS working. TangoGPS says no GPS found and locations says unable to get a fix. 3) How do i exchange data between my PC and the FR so that i could push my MP3's and documents etc. 4) A good music player, web browser and PDF reader. Thanks to everyone who made this product what it is. Over the next couple of months i wish to have my Qt apps i've written for the desktop ported to this platform. In that regard i have not read anywhere about it but i hope the USB port operates in host mode and i would need it to interface with certain USB (1.1) hardware. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New to Freerunner!!
On Friday 26 Sep 2008 9:35:46 am Shawn prjktdtnt Thompson wrote: Kishore wrote: I am new to this community. I just got myself the freerunner a couple of days back. I am a fairly experienced user of Linux/Debian/Kubuntu on the desktop and this is my first experience with something like the freerunner. Anyway i am happy with the hardware and i have been through the wiki and am still trying to make my way through the amount of information available in there. The first thing i did after the free runner landed was i reflashed the firmware to the 2008.8. I have it boothing but i have not go tit to do anything useful. Wifi does not connect and the GPS does not work. There exists no filemanager/ media player by default and so essentially i still have nothing usable. I would appreciate anyone guiding me or pointing me to a location where i can get the needed information. What i need to being is 1) Get the wifi to connect. It currently invariably always says something like Error: Unable to connect to the network 2) Get my GPS working. TangoGPS says no GPS found and locations says unable to get a fix. 3) How do i exchange data between my PC and the FR so that i could push my MP3's and documents etc. 4) A good music player, web browser and PDF reader. Thanks to everyone who made this product what it is. Over the next couple of months i wish to have my Qt apps i've written for the desktop ported to this platform. In that regard i have not read anywhere about it but i hope the USB port operates in host mode and i would need it to interface with certain USB (1.1) hardware. Try flashing FDOM, has a lot of little fixes in it. Currently downloading image So i should use the same kernel image as the 2008.8 but only reflash the rootfs i presume? FDOM does look interesting. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Has anyone...
guess thats a question on lots of people's minds ... we should just hang on ... being the first in any domain is difficult ... think, moko's done a great job about being open ... lets see how far the rabbit hole goes ;) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...had their purchased phone arrive yet?? mail2web.com – What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Couple of Questions
Marco Barreno wrote: On Mon, Jul 23, 2007 at 06:10:25PM -0400, thus spake Donald Organ: No upgrade discount, they decided against that. Instead they made the GTA01 cheaper. I think you may be able to keep the existing case, battery etc and get the GTA02 in board only form. Has this been confirmed?? I dont want to buy it right now if I am not gonna be able to upgrade to the version with 802.11 wireless for anything more than $200. Unfortunately, it seems unrealistic to me to think that they could sell the board for less than $200. The board is going to be by far the most expensive component, with the screen in second place and the battery coming third, most likely. Almost all of the development effort and hardware production costs go into the board; it must be at *least* 50% of the cost of the unit, and I'd guess more like 75-90%. Since the phone will be sold for $450, I would expect the board alone to sell for somewhere between $250 and $400, depending on how accurate my estimates are and how much FIC is willing to take a loss on board-only sales. well ... from my previous experiences, companies in the mobile domain know how to make their money ... dont think FIC is making a loss at all ... neither now nor will they ever at any point of time in the future ... even if they have lost a few dollars a piece on hardware ... they've already made it up on brand value ... international mkting is not cheap ... FIC has already decided how they are giving discounts to people who want to get GTA01 now and GTA02 when it's ready: they're selling GTA01 at a $150 discount. It would be really cool for us if they decided to give further discounts, but given the costs that surely go into the development, it doesn't seem likely. they are expecting applications and profitability from the current exercise ... our future discounts will depend on how well we perform :) I'm in the same position as you, by the way. If I thought they would sell the board for less than $200 I'd buy GTA01 right now. But I think it's unlikely, so I'm waiting until GTA02 comes out. Marco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
