Re: Not the free phone (was: Re: Again: Advertising thoughts
oPhone sounds great too... but not this oPhone: http://soapbox.msn.com/video.aspx?vid=79996a20-e2de-4757-8d22-dfc5a44acfc7 -- Luit On 7/17/07, digger vermont [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 09:59 +0200, ramsesoriginal wrote: The Open Phone Our Phone Just oPhone I've always dislike the I and My stuff. digger ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: thregister coverage of first Neo
Reading the title of that article I first realize the big difference between the two types of free for mobile phones... Maybe something for that guy that made those commercials. All sorts of free (no money) phones, listed with the contract they're bound to + not really free. And then last but not least: The FIC Neo1973: 300$, but completely free. anyhow, nice thing the register noticed too :) On 7/10/07, Sander van Grieken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TheRegister coverage of the GTA01 release: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/09/neo_1973_launch/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko ads on youtube
my goodness, that one's really strong! great punchline! really! better then the bull-crippling one. Not visually stunning, but wonderful concept! On 7/8/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=472DE700A3CC70A4 #21 is new. I think I went a little overboard. No one from openmoko has said to stop, so I guess these are okay to post on youtube. -adam ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko ads on youtube
my goodness, that one's really strong! great punchline! really! better then the bull-crippling one. Not visually stunning, but wonderful concept! (sorry if it's a double post, but I guess the first one will be blocked for the list at first, because of the e-mail address) On 7/8/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=472DE700A3CC70A4 #21 is new. I think I went a little overboard. No one from openmoko has said to stop, so I guess these are okay to post on youtube. -adam ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Seamless switching from gprs to wifi calling
I'll have to come back on this... I've read several stories about t-mobile's [EMAIL PROTECTED] service lately, and it seems like t-mobile made it possible to let it switch between UMA and airwaves. I intentionally don't call it seamless, because it isn't. (yet?) Several reports say it takes a second or two to switch between WiFi and GSM airwaves -- Luit On 6/10/07, Luit van Drongelen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, As I said, to do the T-Mobile thing, you'd need a GSM/UMA backbone that's capable of routing calls through both. Though I don't think it's easy to reroute (hand over) a call from one of the protocols to the other. It requires timing, which requires computing power, which requires a mighty strong backbone for all the people using the service. So my guess is that T-Mobile's Hotspot services only lets you use one of the two protocols. As long as you're near a hotspot, you're logged in to the UMA backbone, and your phone number is assigned to that hotspot service. If you're not logged in, incoming and outgoing calls are routed through GSM normally. And there's the problem for doing it yourself. You can't really decide for yourself where the calls for your number are routed to. The service provider decides, and without a T-Mobile Hotspot @ home-like service backbone, you can't do this. You can either call through WiFi using SIP, but it'll use your SIP number, not your GSM number. And vice-versa. It's all up to the service provider to enable goodness like this... :( -- Luit On 6/8/07, mathew davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for all the input. Sounds very interesting. I didn't realize that UMA isn't VoIP. I don't want to use t-mobiles system. I was thinking of how I could do it without using their system, but the same idea. Sounds like I have got a lot fo reading ahead of me and that this problem is bigger than I thought it would be. Just to make sure I got every thing right GPRS is to slow. Inorder to get something like this to work you need the following: Client software capable of handling 2 streams sip and gsm. It also has to know when to hand over from one to the other. You also need a server that can handle the 2 streams and know when to throw away the extra data. Does that sound right? Just want to make sure I understand what you guys wrote. That IMS thing sounds interesting I will have to do some research on that. Thanks for the info. On 6/8/07, Luit van Drongelen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To get back to what Mathew asked: I don't think a T-Mobile [EMAIL PROTECTED] is switching calls back and forth as you get in reach of a hotspot, and walk away from it. Secondly: this only works with T-Mobile! (for now) T-Mobile has probably set up a [EMAIL PROTECTED] call server near their GSM traffic backbone, on which your phone logs in, and through which your GSM traffic goes (with that UMA protocol) while you're logged in (in reach of a public (T-mobile) hotspot). Calls that already take place can't be re-routed I guess... Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that firstly: you need T-Mobile as your operator. Secondly: you need that T-Mobile HotSpot @home plan. Thirdly: you need a phone that's capable of routing your GSM traffic through UMA, to the T-Mobile UMA server/backbone/whatever they call it. As for the Neo1973 and OpenMoko: The phone can most likely do it, because the software just needs to know how to do it. BUT, I don't think T-Mobile will tell you how to log in. T-Mobile makes the phone software themselves for a reason. If they show you how to make a phone log in, you can make a program that logs your computer in too. So a FOSS solution for this probably won't come easily. -- Luit PS: sorry for the double post Johnson, it bounced because I mailed from the wrong account On 6/8/07, Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check the archives for a full discussion of this. In short GPRS is unsuitable for VoIP because of the high latencies, often in seconds. The GSM data mode is more suitable even though it's only 9600. It should be possible to have Asterisk route calls to the right VoIP endpoint, or to a GSM voice call if it can place calls to the PSTN. The trick comes in knowing when to hand over, and having a unified client that'll get Asterisk to do it. On Friday 08 June 2007 06:21, kenneth marken wrote: mathew davis wrote: Dear community, I am not sure if this is a widely known thing or not, but I just found out about it and had some questions about this working on the neo. T-mobile has hotspots all around my area, but have been experimenting with a new service called T-mobile HotSpot @Home. It uses a UMA (unlicensed mobile access) technology to allow phones to switch from cellular connection to Wi-Fi connection. And also makes it possible for VoIP calls. So this is something that is very interesting to me only I would
Re: Openmoko ads now on youtube
Well, OpenMoko isn't really 'here' yet, is it? It's public, true, but it's not final. Far from it, IMHO. About the ads, Some ads are fine, some are less interesting... The one with the bull is just geniously subtle :) maybe a little too much bashing towards the carriers, but very, very nice still. I like the first one, and the march of the penguins one too :) thumbs up, very good work. -- Luit On 7/5/07, Joe Friedrichsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The funny thing is that OpenMoko is here //now//. It's the phone that's coming soon :-) Joe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Annoying but inevitable
Hi, I don't think your idea is that bad at all, but it doesn't look like something that's possible. OpenMoko wants all software on the phone to be open-source, thus no ad-ware lock-in is possible. It's reversible. Plus, the phone won't be any cheaper because of this reversibility. But that's just my €0,01474 (wow, the exchange rate is nice these days). Greetz, Luit On 7/3/07, Vladimir Giszpenc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Given the power of Google and Madison Ave, it would seem that people are weak and cheap... How about a Minority Report type of advertising on the phone using the GPS data? This could even be payed based on proximity (bonus when the ad worked). This could be a way to get advertising dollars (euros, etc) to help reduce the price of the phone even more. My gut says that this idea is evil; my instinct tells me that getting big business behind our open phone could really help... Let the flames begin. I know I deserve it. Just remember that I meant well. (and I do know how the road to hell is paved). Thanks, Vlad ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko at OSCON?
Just to close this thread, here's the link to info about the spot that Mr. Bergstrom reserved: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2007/view/e_sess/14810 -- On 7/3/07, Uncle Kridley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Spots are already filling up fast: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/58/bof.html so someone fill it out soon if they would like to see one. I'm on it... -- -- Dirk Bergstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://otisbean.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rough seas
OpenMoko can be built to run on regular i386 hardware (quote from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU ) I guess it's a feature of OpenEmbedded :) -- Luit On 6/22/07, Paul A. Lambert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is anyone successfully developing openmoko software on other platforms? Quite a bit of good work could get done if there was an x86 openmoko build. Of course, it might be impossible to actually make a phone call, but other interesting components could be developed. Paul On Jun 21, 2007, at 3:50 AM, Florent THIERY wrote: So please wish us luck. We're just about at the tipping point. Good luck :) I think it is normal for us to wait, as normally the hardware engineering is in a complete black-out, with delays and revisions. Let's all be patient, that's it. Cheers, et bon courage !!! Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
If FIC doesn't want to make it, you can try and build it for yourself. There's SPI and I2C available as test/contact/solder pads on the GTA01Bv4 PCB IIRC. (hmm, too much abbreviations?) -- Luit On 6/19/07, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is also the possibility to use a scroll wheel that can be turned about 30 deg in each direction. The more it is turned, the faster we scroll. But I would like a touch strip if we have enough GPIO pins (or SPI?) available. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to buy/order Neo1973
Hello, You can't order yet, but we hope it'll be any day now. That's when. Where and how? On openmoko.com. On 6/18/07, Tuan TRINH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I live in Paris, and I would like to order two Neo1973 for my hacking. Where and How can I order/buy Neo1973? Please advise me. Thank you, Tuan TRINH ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Moko Themes
I think the first theme concern should be different resolutions. Currently there's just a VGA theme, but QVGA and WQVGA (i guess... 480x272 anyways) for future phones, and non-FIC phones. (most phones and PDAs are QVGA). At least I'd like to see that come soon. -- LuitvD On 6/12/07, Jon Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 19:19 -0500, Tim Shannon wrote: I know that there are going to be themes for the OpenMoko interface, but I'm just wondering if there is anyone who has started working on alternate themes? I think I'd like to take a crack at it, and I was curious if anyone has had any start yet. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I haven't, but OpenMoko team and I have discussed how the main theme is going to be CC BY-SA licensed. It would be great to get other interfaces licensed under CC BY or BY-SA tooo! Jon -- Jon Phillips San Francisco, CA USA PH 510.499.0894 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.rejon.org MSN, AIM, Yahoo Chat: kidproto Jabber Chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] IRC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Seamless switching from gprs to wifi calling
Hi, As I said, to do the T-Mobile thing, you'd need a GSM/UMA backbone that's capable of routing calls through both. Though I don't think it's easy to reroute (hand over) a call from one of the protocols to the other. It requires timing, which requires computing power, which requires a mighty strong backbone for all the people using the service. So my guess is that T-Mobile's Hotspot services only lets you use one of the two protocols. As long as you're near a hotspot, you're logged in to the UMA backbone, and your phone number is assigned to that hotspot service. If you're not logged in, incoming and outgoing calls are routed through GSM normally. And there's the problem for doing it yourself. You can't really decide for yourself where the calls for your number are routed to. The service provider decides, and without a T-Mobile Hotspot @ home-like service backbone, you can't do this. You can either call through WiFi using SIP, but it'll use your SIP number, not your GSM number. And vice-versa. It's all up to the service provider to enable goodness like this... :( -- Luit On 6/8/07, mathew davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for all the input. Sounds very interesting. I didn't realize that UMA isn't VoIP. I don't want to use t-mobiles system. I was thinking of how I could do it without using their system, but the same idea. Sounds like I have got a lot fo reading ahead of me and that this problem is bigger than I thought it would be. Just to make sure I got every thing right GPRS is to slow. Inorder to get something like this to work you need the following: Client software capable of handling 2 streams sip and gsm. It also has to know when to hand over from one to the other. You also need a server that can handle the 2 streams and know when to throw away the extra data. Does that sound right? Just want to make sure I understand what you guys wrote. That IMS thing sounds interesting I will have to do some research on that. Thanks for the info. On 6/8/07, Luit van Drongelen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To get back to what Mathew asked: I don't think a T-Mobile [EMAIL PROTECTED] is switching calls back and forth as you get in reach of a hotspot, and walk away from it. Secondly: this only works with T-Mobile! (for now) T-Mobile has probably set up a [EMAIL PROTECTED] call server near their GSM traffic backbone, on which your phone logs in, and through which your GSM traffic goes (with that UMA protocol) while you're logged in (in reach of a public (T-mobile) hotspot). Calls that already take place can't be re-routed I guess... Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that firstly: you need T-Mobile as your operator. Secondly: you need that T-Mobile HotSpot @home plan. Thirdly: you need a phone that's capable of routing your GSM traffic through UMA, to the T-Mobile UMA server/backbone/whatever they call it. As for the Neo1973 and OpenMoko: The phone can most likely do it, because the software just needs to know how to do it. BUT, I don't think T-Mobile will tell you how to log in. T-Mobile makes the phone software themselves for a reason. If they show you how to make a phone log in, you can make a program that logs your computer in too. So a FOSS solution for this probably won't come easily. -- Luit PS: sorry for the double post Johnson, it bounced because I mailed from the wrong account On 6/8/07, Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check the archives for a full discussion of this. In short GPRS is unsuitable for VoIP because of the high latencies, often in seconds. The GSM data mode is more suitable even though it's only 9600. It should be possible to have Asterisk route calls to the right VoIP endpoint, or to a GSM voice call if it can place calls to the PSTN. The trick comes in knowing when to hand over, and having a unified client that'll get Asterisk to do it. On Friday 08 June 2007 06:21, kenneth marken wrote: mathew davis wrote: Dear community, I am not sure if this is a widely known thing or not, but I just found out about it and had some questions about this working on the neo. T-mobile has hotspots all around my area, but have been experimenting with a new service called T-mobile HotSpot @Home. It uses a UMA (unlicensed mobile access) technology to allow phones to switch from cellular connection to Wi-Fi connection. And also makes it possible for VoIP calls. So this is something that is very interesting to me only I would like it to be a little different, I don't want to use T-Mobile's service I would like to use my Wi-Fi connection to my VoIP of choice. I know this has been talked about before with some options including an Astrex box forwarding the call to your cellphone until your in range then switching to Wi-Fi but that was not a very seamless transistion from my understanding. So I guess my question is could we impliment a UMA type of technology for the neo
Re: Seamless switching from gprs to wifi calling
To get back to what Mathew asked: I don't think a T-Mobile [EMAIL PROTECTED] is switching calls back and forth as you get in reach of a hotspot, and walk away from it. Secondly: this only works with T-Mobile! (for now) T-Mobile has probably set up a [EMAIL PROTECTED] call server near their GSM traffic backbone, on which your phone logs in, and through which your GSM traffic goes (with that UMA protocol) while you're logged in (in reach of a public (T-mobile) hotspot). Calls that already take place can't be re-routed I guess... Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that firstly: you need T-Mobile as your operator. Secondly: you need that T-Mobile HotSpot @home plan. Thirdly: you need a phone that's capable of routing your GSM traffic through UMA, to the T-Mobile UMA server/backbone/whatever they call it. As for the Neo1973 and OpenMoko: The phone can most likely do it, because the software just needs to know how to do it. BUT, I don't think T-Mobile will tell you how to log in. T-Mobile makes the phone software themselves for a reason. If they show you how to make a phone log in, you can make a program that logs your computer in too. So a FOSS solution for this probably won't come easily. -- Luit PS: sorry for the double post Johnson, it bounced because I mailed from the wrong account On 6/8/07, Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check the archives for a full discussion of this. In short GPRS is unsuitable for VoIP because of the high latencies, often in seconds. The GSM data mode is more suitable even though it's only 9600. It should be possible to have Asterisk route calls to the right VoIP endpoint, or to a GSM voice call if it can place calls to the PSTN. The trick comes in knowing when to hand over, and having a unified client that'll get Asterisk to do it. On Friday 08 June 2007 06:21, kenneth marken wrote: mathew davis wrote: Dear community, I am not sure if this is a widely known thing or not, but I just found out about it and had some questions about this working on the neo. T-mobile has hotspots all around my area, but have been experimenting with a new service called T-mobile HotSpot @Home. It uses a UMA (unlicensed mobile access) technology to allow phones to switch from cellular connection to Wi-Fi connection. And also makes it possible for VoIP calls. So this is something that is very interesting to me only I would like it to be a little different, I don't want to use T-Mobile's service I would like to use my Wi-Fi connection to my VoIP of choice. I know this has been talked about before with some options including an Astrex box forwarding the call to your cellphone until your in range then switching to Wi-Fi but that was not a very seamless transistion from my understanding. So I guess my question is could we impliment a UMA type of technology for the neo that is customizable to use our VoIP provider? Or since that particular part is locked we wouldn't have access to that part? Just curious. When I get the phone I will be playing with trying to find a solution to this problem. I have very limited knowlege about this kind of thing. I am not an experianced programmer yet. I only have about 3 yers of indestry experiance, but none of that is mobile development and almost none of it is linux related, so I have a bit of a learnign curve so that is why I am asking the question here. while not fully up to speed on how it all works, here is my quick take on it: as long as its a voip connection, and said voip service allows two ip's to share a account and call, there should be little to no problem having both a wifi and gprs connection open at the same time as one moves about (in my experience a gprs connection can be held open but not used). hell, one may even use bluetooth if it can handle the data transfer. the problem here is that ip thing. UMA has a normal mobile phone connections as one option so therefor dont have to think about multiple ip's. it just need to have a internet connected cell so to speak, and only hand the call over when the ip based connection is fully in place. however im guessing there are some issues with going between two wifi zones/networks or something similar... so mostly you need a voip service that allows you to log in from another ip without booting the old connection off or hanging up any calls. after that its mostly a case of the client software figuring out what of the two connections to send on. or maybe just send on both, expecting the service to throw away the data thats a duplicate. something that i think is a basic feature in mobile phone systems. one funny thing is that if your using voip, and have a flat rate data plan for your mobile phone, there is no need to go wifi anyways as the mobile data connection will probably be more reliable given that its already built to do what one is trying to make the wifi system do (handover, multiple connections and overlapping
Re: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as iPhone?
Openmoko has 2 goals, right? One is to make a FOSS stack for mobile phones, and two is to make 'your parents' want it. For that last bit, you might need to have a consistent, but also clear and fluid (direct reaction to touch actions for example, click delay is really confusing for people). The devices used are no full-blown computers. So why use software made for computers? I agree we need something that works rapidly in mobile devices. If GTK/Matchbox can do that, then it's fine with me. If it isn't, then more then just cross-compilation will be necessary to get something running on Openmoko, which is fine too, because it's still open-source. It might take a little longer to get something to work, but it'll work properly. The graphics should be quick on slow devices. Not necessarily fluid (like the iPhone) but responsive (like PalmOS). but that's just my 2 cents. -- Luit On 6/7/07, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tomasz Zielinski wrote: If with GTK/Matchbox we cannot achieve such rich, fluid and, erm..., fluid GUI as iPhone, maybe it's not too late to drop GTK and choose other framework, designed for mobile devices and running quick framebuffer operations? GameBoy provided nice full-screen animations in 1989, eighteen years ago. I feel your pain. Trust me, it hurts me as well... I'm 100% sure nobody will cry after pure-X11 applications we loose this way. Almost every GTK application would require rewriting/porting to fit OpenMoko capabilities, so it's not great loss too. Not to mention font and other DPI-aware issues. Interesting. Can I hear more supportive or counter arguments? What do the others think? Regards, -- - Michael Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the worlds' first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
