Anti Iphone (Was Re: Some light ahead...)
I have an HTC wizard right now branded as cingular that I am running skype on. If I remember correctly I downloaded the software off the skype site for this handset. Does this mean it's approved or not approved? Wouldn't it be a problem for the FTC if Cingular didn't approve software like this because it wouldn't be fair and equitable for that frequency? They would need to have some sort of test for certification right? Or, is this the difference between licensed and unlicensed BTW, I just got the Cingular 8125, refurbished, for about $80 with a 2 year contract. This is the one with Wifi inside -- haveing a computer in your pocket takes some getting used to. It will be interesting to see if Apple can distinguish themselves, as they have always done, on the gui. To make it easy to use as a phone when you need a phone, and as a featureful computer when that is needed considering the limitations of the form factor. That is slightly different than making it just easy to use. I predict that the iphone will die early if they keep the software closed and not have it read my mind. However if it is the case that they make it safer for me to make a phone call on the road, as well as being a good PDA/computer they may have a chance. Also you probably wouldn't need myth TV on the Iphone for the reasons Apple does distinguish themselves as described above. Marty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Message: 4 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:26:36 -0500 From: Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: To: community community@lists.openmoko.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Apple has said they won't allow any third party apps they don't approve. That most likely means no apps Cingular doesn't approve also. You think Cingular is going to allow VOIP apps that reduce the money Cingular makes off the phone? You think I'll be able to get my little MythTV remote app approved by Apple? etc. The iPhone hardware may be sweet, but the rest is a nightmare. -Steven On 4/27/07, Duncan Hudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 4) Relax... you're not going to be able to add features to an iPhone. OSX is unix based, so you and I both know that one will be able to add apps to the iPhone. We also both know that for it to succeed in the business environment they'll have to allow 3rd party apps. Know that I want nothing more than for this device to succeed, but I truly believe with each slip its success becomes more difficult. There comes a point in the game when one just has to play the hand that they're holding - whether it's a winning hand or not... Dunc ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Can OpenMoko Make Coffee? - SoC Project Proposal
You mean like this except with a coffee maker? http://xe.bz/aho/24/ No ;) Marty Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 00:30:09 +0530 From: Anil Franklin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank u, The same idea made me think of a way to link open moko with real world ..'Can open moko make coffee'.. The interface could be either through usb or RF .. For the above mentioned ideas like connecting phone to external circuitries like microcontroller , i think it is a good idea to use usb... Anyway i am excited to see this idea implemented some way -Anil ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Crossroads
They are all funky in this regard. Having worked for a chip company before I can tell you they are very afraid of this. The issue with the way the architecture went, as I think I said before, is that more registers are exposed to the host because the chip only does the real time aspects of the protocol, the lower MAC, and the High level controller, and upper MAC, is actually in the driver This is different than the prism where they tried to make it look like an ethernet device. Believe me the Prism should have died a horrible death a couple of years before they actually did. The only thing that saved them was the fact that the consumer was immature and couldn't tell the difference this includes end user as well as system developer. Harris/Intersil/globespan aslo screwed my company by raising a lot of fud about 802.11g. Very short sighted... (I need someone to slap out of this here) Anyway, all modern chipsets follow this model, the one I got from AMD when they were in the business. TI and Marvell have Arms inside the MAC chip. This reduces the issues but you still have the issue of more registers being exposed to the chipset manufacturer's end user. This means whatever wacky way they want to use the chip has to be supported by someone. If you follow the logic of a chipset manufacturer it ultimately winds up to them having to support it; 1. they have the real intimate knowledge of how the chip works 2. if they do not use that knowledge then they don't sell chips. That intimate knowledge is a very limited resource in the FAE(s), but mostly in the engineering team which is working on trying to keep ahead of the other chip companies that are working on new differentiators for the chip, or the next gen chip. This is the bind that Sean is in. In my opinion, unless there is another company that can meet his requirements, the only real answer is to have an SDIO interface and let the end user/developer decide how to load a binary into the kernel from the chipset vendor. BTW take a look at Madwifi and see who actually is supporting it. OTOH Marvell is the hot chipset these days and they do have an interface that could expose less regs to the end user, the question is whether they are willing to put the effort into Linux. Which is what the HAL is doing in Madwifi. Can you get Marvell to support it? Marty Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 10:07:45 +1100 From: Grahame Jordan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Sean, What about the Marvell® 88W8385 module used on the wifistix Open source drivers can be found at http://gumstix.com Cheers Grahame Jordan Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Dear Community, OpenMoko is built around the philosophy that far more knowledge exists outside the walls of a corporation than within. Internally, we're struggling with two issues. So we're throwing this out, hoping that some of you have can help us move past our current crossroads: 1) We can't find a WiFi Chipset with GPL'ed drivers -- We know this has been discussed (to death) on this list, but as we're beginning work on the next summer hardware refresh we still can't seem to find a vendor that meets our strict requirements: Namely, we refuse to put anything binary in the kernel. Marvell has some nice for larger devices (the 8388). But we need one specifically for mobile phones (like the 8686). If somebody can help us find the right vendor, we'll give you a free Neo1973. If you're a vendor and want to work with us to GPL your driver, we'll give you lots of business -- and a free phone ;-) 2) We don't have enough UI / Application developers -- If anybody meets (or knows somebody who can meet) the following qualifications: * = 2 years experience with GTK * object oriented design and implementation w/ GObject * experience with writing GUI applications from scratch, * has software quality assets like: o writing maintainable and reusable code o refactoring o design patterns o identifying and extracting common application code into frameworks Familiarity with collaborative development tools such as: * bugtracker, * source control management, * wiki, * mailing lists is a necessity. We've love to talk with you! Please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with links to your previous work and a resume if you have one. (The latter is nowhere near as important as the former.) Thanks in advance for any help! -Sean -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gjordan.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 311 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/attachments/20070314/0e25e775/gjordan.vcf --
Re: [openmoko-announce] Crossroads
I did some research on Nanoradio for my employer. They have very good specs, actually the best I've seen for power. I'm not sure how mature the product is. Nowhere does it mention opensource. Marty Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:50:49 -0800 From: Steve Bibayoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, On 3/13/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) We can't find a WiFi Chipset with GPL'ed drivers -- We know this has been discussed (to death) on this list, but as we're beginning work on the next summer hardware refresh we still can't seem to find a vendor that meets our strict requirements: Namely, we refuse to put anything binary in the kernel. Marvell has some nice for larger devices (the 8388). But we need one specifically for mobile phones (like the 8686). If somebody can help us find the right vendor, we'll give you a free Neo1973. Have you guys looked into Nanoradio? Specifically NRX700/2 : http://www.nanoradio.com/?NavID=278 Haven't worked (or actually talked) w/ them, but stumbled across them when working on another project. Seem small, so they may work w/ Free Software technologist. I have a longer list some where, just need to dig it up, will post it when I find it. Steve ps. Sorry to send directly to you(Sean), I'm not subscribed to the community list and not sure if this would get through. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crossroads
The Prism is not getting much traction in the market. The company has been bounced around from owner to owner. I would think that using the prism in a design would be very risky because the chip may not be around for the life of the product. Marty Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:55:49 +0100 From: Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] Although it has a closed firmware, I found this announcement http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2006-April/003575.html with no replies on the maemo mailing list. Maybe someone who is faster in than than me should try to get the driver working on his nokia770. (The packages mentioned in the announcement do not work on current maemo, because of the older EABI) If you are a vendor, trying to build hardware that you have to provide support for, then the last thing you want to do is to use a chipset with software that 1) the software developers don't have hardware docs 2) the chipset manufacturer has no idea about your driver software and will not give the device manufacturer any docs either It's a complete nightmare where nobody can help you and provide any kind of acceptable support level. Thus, from a business standpoint, not bearable. Also, even if the free driver authors (prism54-softmac in this case) would really have reversed the chip up to the point there is barely nothing that they don't know about it, I still would definitely like to prefer generating business to a chipset manufacturer who understands the Linux community and provides GPL'd drivers and/or documentation. Cheers, -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Crossroads
I was not aware of your work in the legal area. It sounds like you are biting the hand that feeds you. If you succeed in getting companies afraid to be adding modules to a kernel for fear of having to expose their detailed register layout to the public either by documentation or code you will kill embedded linux. Then you can buy your sticker Long live BSD, or worse windows (mobile). Marty P.S. my understanding is that the linksys issue is actually what happened. How they dealt with it going forward is another issue. Harald Welte wrote: On Wed, Mar 14, 2007 at 09:51:37AM -0700, Martin Lefkowitz wrote: I disagree with that premise that it is a nasty legal area. Modules can be proprietary this is a fact. Not only have I been directly involved in the development of such, but have talked to people that did serious research on what is legal and what isn't. As you might be aware, I am myself heading the http://gpl-violations.org/ project, and in this process and function talking to many technical and legal experts in this area. And there is _nothing_ that is more of an indication of a grey area if * you can find many lawyers and scientific legal researchers pro and con * you cannot find any evidence anywhere on the world on any of this If it were not then everybody would have already sued everybody. I am doing my best. And I would have probably dealt with more than 120 cases (only a hand full had to go to court) if I didn't have this strange habit of doing actual development rather than just dealing with legal issues. it's only linksys that had to disclose their WRT54g code Whihc is obviously wrong and outdated information. I can almost guarantee you that no chip company is going to open themselves up to that. That is not the point. You can never sue somebody to release their proprietary source code. But you can halt their sales by halting them from further distributing a gpl infringing product. And I have hard evidence in my own hands that this works ;) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crossroads
I just briefly took a look at the chip, and yes this does look different. They are doing what Marvell is doing, and what TI did, by finally embedding a controller on the device side. How much of the MAC is on that side is a good question. I assume they are still using the host for Scatter Gather. Marty Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 17:31:31 +0100 From: Imre Kaloz [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:52:56 +0100, jeff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Imre Kaloz wrote: Atheros AR6K - check http://atheros.com/pt/AR6001Bulletins.htm , and for the fully GPL'ed driver and SDIO stack please check http://sourceforge.net/projects/sdio-linux/ I hardly think you will find a better alternative ;) From common_atheros_sdiostack.patch (in sdio-linux tarball): Any implementation of the Simplified Specification may require a license from the SD Card Association or other third parties. Any insight on may in this case? Thanks, -Jeff I would translate it as If you make an SD(IO) device based on the stack, the SD Card Association may demand money for the license to develope hardware for the specs. ;) Imre ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crossroads
I don't know much about the intel one except that I wouldn't be surprised it downloaded the firmware into the chipset. I Broadcom also does this as well as TI. There is an opensource version of the TI driver. Getting attention from a Chipset manufacturer is another story. Marty Message: 7 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:38:38 -0700 From: dimitris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Intel's laptop-oriented chips have GPL drivers, albeit with binary modules - but not *kernel* binary modules. The 3945abg driver uses a binary userspace daemon and a binary on-chip microcode: http://ipw3945.sourceforge.net/ The 2200bg/2945abg driver relies on a binary on-chip firmware: http://ipw2200.sourceforge.net/ The latter one is in the mainline kernel too. D. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crossroads
I don't know much about the intel one except that I wouldn't be surprised it downloaded the firmware into the chipset. I Broadcom also does this as well as TI. There is an opensource version of the TI driver. Getting attention from a Chipset manufacturer is another story. Marty Message: 7 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:38:38 -0700 From: dimitris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Intel's laptop-oriented chips have GPL drivers, albeit with binary modules - but not *kernel* binary modules. The 3945abg driver uses a binary userspace daemon and a binary on-chip microcode: http://ipw3945.sourceforge.net/ The 2200bg/2945abg driver relies on a binary on-chip firmware: http://ipw2200.sourceforge.net/ The latter one is in the mainline kernel too. D. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crossroads
I don't see what plan you should be getting has anything really to do with Openmoko, other than helpful people relaying their experiences with data plans in the USA. Regardless of what phone you get you still have to navigate through the different plans and what they mean. If you think OpenMoko is going to open a kiosk in a mall because you said so, your living in a fantasy world. Why don't you collect all the information that came on this email list and post it to the Wiki, or FAQ? Marty What this has to do with wifi is covered in my last email. If I can't have wifi on the device, then I have to rely on the mobile service provider. If I have to rely on the mobile service provider, then I have to figure out what plan to get. If we have to do that, then the openmoko people shouldn't leave us entirely on our own. If they're going to sell worldwide then they should FIGURE OUT worldwide. This is open source development. So we developers aren't making money here. I for, one am NOT willing to pay $350 to get a device that I'm not sure will work with whatever service I choose, and therefore that I'm not sure I can even develop for. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AGPS - protocol specs?
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 13:19:40 + From: Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] The gpsd will output assorted parameters, including current position, ... You can take this - or even output from a nearby (1m) GPS, and the bitstream input and output to the GPS chip, and try to work out what the chip sends out. I don't understand what is meant by a nearby (1m) GPS. How does the device communicate with a nearby GPS? Marty ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AGPS - protocol specs?
Still confused on the term nearby GPS Marty Ian Stirling wrote: Martin Lefkowitz wrote: Message: 10 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 13:19:40 + From: Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] The gpsd will output assorted parameters, including current position, ... You can take this - or even output from a nearby (1m) GPS, and the bitstream input and output to the GPS chip, and try to work out what the chip sends out. I don't understand what is meant by a nearby (1m) GPS. How does the device communicate with a nearby GPS? It doesn't - at all. However, in the absence of a GPS daemon that understands the chip output, if the chip could just be turned on, the nearby GPS could be used to determine (almost exactly) what signals are going into the chip, which makes decoding the protocol easier. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AGPS - protocol specs?
OK, now I was the perpetrator of imprecise language. How do the two neo's communicate with each other -- the one that can see the GPS signal and the one that can't? Marty Ian Stirling wrote: Martin Lefkowitz wrote: Still confused on the term nearby GPS A completely separate GPS unit, that is nearby, close in location, with almost the same position, ... Its only purpose is to measure the GPS coordinates - lat, long, time, from which can be derived the satellite signals sent to the neo. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS for 911 calls
It will be interesting to see how that pans out too. My understanding is that the CDMA systems started out trying this method and then wen't to the idea of adding GPS HW. Marty From: Perry E. Metzger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wireless Enhanced 911 for mobiles, including GPS or other radiolocation data, is a US standard. I don't know how the signaling works, but if you are selling a new phone in the US, it is mandatory that you comply. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E911#Wireless_Enhanced_911: however. TDMA and GSM networks such as Cingular and T-Mobile use TDOA which is location singulation based purely on the network. No device support and no GPS needed for that. Ah, so the network does the work, not the phone. On CDMA I believe all the phones do the signaling. Perry ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS for 911 calls
There is an IETF group (BOF?) looking into this. 802.11k and v are also trying to provide some solutions, but they are uncoordinated as far as I know. IMHO it needs to be an IETF solution because of the converged devices that are cropping up. I'm not sure anyone has lifted their heads out of -- the sand -- yet on this though. Marty Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 15:17:03 + From: Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: To: Michael Welter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Michael Welter wrote: What is the protocol for sending the GPS coordinates to the 911 dispatcher? I don't think there is one protocol. Unfortunately, I suspect a 'say GPS coordinates' button on the 911 screen may be the most compatible way. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS for 911 calls
Yes, but for VoIP I believe it is still in flux. There is an especially nasty issue with encryption and 802.11 with the way the standard is described because it assumes you are already on the network. However with 802.1x based systems you need to be authenticated. As far as I know this has not completely been worked out. It would be great to take advantage of GPS to do this from the Application layer without having to modify the 802.11 driver and to send 802.11 MAC frames. You also need to make sure you do not send GPS coordinates unencrypted because that can be a life and death issue (for example a bad guy trying to figure out exactly where the victim is, by sniffing the air). In fact OpenMoko may enable the described scenario to happen. I can't remember how emergency calls work in regards to TMSI in GSM. Marty Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 18:56:08 -0500 From: Perry E. Metzger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michael Welter wrote: What is the protocol for sending the GPS coordinates to the 911 dispatcher? I don't think there is one protocol. Unfortunately, I suspect a 'say GPS coordinates' button on the 911 screen may be the most compatible way. Wireless Enhanced 911 for mobiles, including GPS or other radiolocation data, is a US standard. I don't know how the signaling works, but if you are selling a new phone in the US, it is mandatory that you comply. Perry ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Market Timing (was USB Connectivity)
They are completely closed because they are very intimate with the chipsets they are using. In fact the chipsets are specifically designed for the company that builds the phone. While you can buy something with the same core, typically you can't buy the chips that are actually in the phone. The fact that you can buy a GSM/GPRS module that runs off the AT command set is the big innovation. I don't know how long this has been possible, but I've only heard about this recently. Whether Open phones have timed the market or not, I'm not sure. You could look at browsers for some examples Netscape-Internet Explorer-mozilla for some examples. But I don't think other than the fact that it can be done it's appropriate. You really have not had the ability to write/port an integrated application and run it on your phone like you do your PC (i.e. I think the coldfire only dealt with the Palm PDA aspect). It may be more appropriate to look at what Honda did to Harley Davidson in the 60's from a market/business perspective. Marty Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 06:47:04 +0100 From: larpoux [EMAIL PROTECTED] I just decover Openmoko, and it is exactly what I was dreaming for the past few years. I already have two cellular phones running linux, but, (strangely), they are completly closed. My phone operator download a new software release from time to time on them, but I have no documentation, no possibility to develop my own packages, no comunity working on them, ... Too bad that this project is somewhat now a little late and will be hard to have great impact on the mass market. But Openmoko seems exactly what was desesperaly needed for us, the hackers. /larpoux ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Market Timing (was USB Connectivity)
Interesting, then I wonder why all these projects are cropping up now? Linux 2.6 maybe? 90nm? Batteries? Andreas Kostyrka wrote: * Martin Lefkowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070220 15:55]: The fact that you can buy a GSM/GPRS module that runs off the AT command set is the big innovation. I don't know how long this has been possible, but I've only heard about this recently. Well, that's not such a big innovation. HTC seems to have something comparable (as the Linux on Winmobile projects show). And I've used stationary GSM modules using the AT command set (which btw, are standardized too) a decade ago. Andreas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Wifi (was Re: community Digest, Vol 15, Issue 1)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 07:58:04 +0100 From: Marcin Juszkiewicz [EMAIL PROTECTED] t the complaints here should be about no SDIO, or CF interfaces, but again they've bitten off enough. Marvel 8385 can be connected to SDIO, CF, SPI and it is one of chips you are talking about. Yes, and it looks like there is at least a project for the driver. Started 11/06. No release yet. Marty ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 14, Issue 50
Broadcom no, unless you are talking about the SOC ap thing that Broadcom and Atheros use a MIPS for, and bascially has the same kind of architecture we would have with the ARM920 on the Samsung. Broadcom downloads microcode into the device to start it up. TI downloads C/Assembly firmware to start it up. Atheros is pure hardware. The host interface for the Broadcom and Atheros is as I described earlier. The Host interface for the TI is different. A lot more is (or at least was) done inside the chip on the ARM. Marvell is a different story. They have an SDIO system that has (I believe) an ARM inside. They do even more inside the chip. They do all the MAC level functions inside the chip. This is going to be a problem for the company since more and more higher level functions are appear to be using the 802.11 protocol (e.g. CCX, TGv and TGk). The last time I checked they were keeping up, but at some point I bet they are going to run out of resources both machine and human to keep up. In fact the complaints here should be about no SDIO, or CF interfaces, but again they've bitten off enough. Even with the features that OpenMoko has it would have been insane only a few years ago to attempt an opensource phone. The GSM AT stuff is pretty interesting Marty Message: 4 Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 09:44:57 -0800 From: Wolfgang S. Rupprecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Wifi again To: community@lists.openmoko.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Marty, thanks for the interesting insight. Martin Lefkowitz writes: what both Atheros and Broadcom have done is have a binary that handles the interface for the chip that needs to be included in the opensource project. From my limited understanding, it appears that both Broadcom and Marvell use an embedded ARM chip also. An interesting blog entry by Jim Gettys (at http://www.gettysfamily.org/wordpress/?p=27 ) mentions how Marvell helped free up the Marvel wifi driver. He also talks about how the Marvell chip is crucial to the OLPC low power goals. (Although the 300mw estimate for the running chip strikes me as kind of high for use on a cell phone where one has maybe 3 watt-hours of battery all together.) BTW it's interesting that the HTC uses the ACX100. I actually designed, and developed the first version of, that interface for TI. I wonder how its power compares. I'd certainly expect TI to have more engineering and manufacturing talent on hand for building a really low power wifi chip. -wolfgang - ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: R: Camera and MMS
I went to Honeywell in Minnesota once for a meeting. At the security booth inside the building there were two big signs . The first said No Guns the second said No Cameras. I had two thoughts. The first was I'm glad I left my guncamera at home. The second was what goes on here on a Saturday night? After mentioning this in the meeting I was relayed some stories that made me believe the cold gets to people... Camera Phones are becoming more and more of an issue. I have not seen one take a good picture yet either. Marty Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:19:26 +0100 From: Andreas Kaeser [EMAIL PROTECTED] t3st3r wrote: Andreas Kaeser wrote: ... Well, as much as I would like a camera in my all-in-one gadget, it would be prohibitive for my every day use: in my working environment anything capable of picture recording is strictly disallowed. So I wouldn't be able to use Neo1973 :-( So what? Jailed people are often disallowed to use mobile phones at all. Should mobile phones manufacturers to give up and stop producing mobile phones at all then? Of course not. But you missed my point. I'm looking for a way to use the NEO It's a car manufacturer's development plant. [off] I'm amazed how easily people are giving up their legal rights in favor of semi-illegal corporate policies (or similar stuff) which are trashing human rights to the hell. As for me, I'll never work in such jail-like environment. Do you want to have open and free gadget ... but still have jail-like job?Amazing!Freedom is not just a word - it's way of life. Think about it. Twice. [/off] Yes, you are right. I'm horrified, how many people give away real human rights like free speech or privacy for a few Euros or for pseudo security. However, in this very situation, I don't consider it my legal rights to take photos of not-yet-released cars and their development details. I guess people working under such conditions are less than 10% of total population, so maybe we won't be considered too much. A pluggable camera would definitely help! As for me, I will never use pluggable camera.Its a separate thing which can be lost, forgotten and broken easily (the plug itself is a weak place).And it reduces device usability to the hell.Early mobiles attempted to use pluggable cameras but it looks like this attempt has miserably failed.It has been incredible unpopular idea and died without success.However I have nothing against the following: two models, one with camera and one without it. However I have no idea how hard and costly this to implement (usually, developing 2 devices costs more but probably dropping features is relatively easy - just do not solder some parts on same PCB and use a bit altered case). Of course high volume production of an all-in-one gadget often will be cheaper than the production of 50 different models with some different combination of parts missing in each of them. And yes, plugs usually are less reliable than solid soldering joints. I'm happy to have seen more and maybe better ideas to deal with this situation. P.S. Of course you can safely ignore my dumb mumblings but before doing so, consider that I closely dealt with mobile phones internals since 2000 and usability is my primary job. Oh great. Then you know _a lot_ more about mobiles than me. And in case you should change your mind about some No Camera Allowed-situations, you might come up with even far better ideas to deal with said situations than we have already seen :-) 2ALL: sorry for semi-flaming message. At least _I_ don't mind. Far from it! I'm happy to enlarge my own view by getting introduced to more facts and to more points of personal view. Andreas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wifi again
It would be more of a mistake to have the device delayed for developers for another 3-6 months because they can't get the system to work because it's too complicated with two different types of microwave coming into the same device. My suspicion is that you would be complaining about that too, but which would you be complaining about more - this or that? For what it's worth I am imagining just that situation for my application. Marty Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:24:58 +0300 Alessandro Iurlano wrote: On 2/16/07, *Esra Kummer* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So the Wifi will not be integrated in the first Neo 1973, but is there a chance for a hardware addon? Has someone some information about that? Cheers Esra Neo1973 will have a USB interface capable of connecting to a WiFi adapter. But you will need external power for that adapter (or a powered USB hub) because the phone USB interface is an unpowered one. Sounds like a joke. Can you imagine someone using this solution? Except very few (most hardcore) geeks on the planet. Let's remember: mobile phone is a PORTABLE device. Bunch of wires from USB hub + hub + usb adapter will at least make this thingie hardly usable as, er... phone. P.S. As for me, I'm still do not understand, why there is no WI-FI built in. This is a BIG hardware design mistake IMHO. Linux without network is something like North Pole without snow. And the only somehow popular networking in public places is WI-FI. [rest is deleted] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
