Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design

[Nkoli]

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Jay Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Having worked in Open-Hardware for over 15 years now, I was, in fact,
> expecting a much more coherent strategy for the software platform on
> Freerunner than just "let the community decide".  Certainly, the
> community aspect of this project is huge; I am not saying that it is
> not valuable to have such great public influence on the design; just
> that: there *has* to be a rigid design approach to guide development,
> or else we end up with a torn map navigating fork-city.
>
>
Jay, your negative posts on this ML do nothing but foster an unpleasant
atmosphere. Last I checked, no one put a gun to your head and forced you to
buy or design for the FR. If you're tired of waiting for the device to
become stable, sell the phone and check back again in about a year.

You're complaining that a phone 2 years in the making is still imperfect.
How long did it take the newcomer Apple to complete the iphone? Iirc, they
spent 4 years on iphone v1.0 and the device still needs a lot of work.

It's easy to say 'come up with a plan and follow it through come rain or
shine' when you're a bystander. The OM team had a solid plan when the
project started. Maybe they had loftier goals than what they could
accomplish being amateurs, maybe they should have hired someone with
experience in embedded devices from the beginning, maybe they should have
licensed qtopia, maybe they should have done a lot of other things, but you
have to make mistakes in order to learn.

I think it's more to their credit that the plan has gone through several
changes because they learn what is possible and what isn't as they go. I'm
sure if they knew then what they know now, they would have made different
decisions, but then, hindsight is 20/20. I'd like to think they are a more
coordinated unit than they were 2 years ago.

So once again, if you believe your time and money has been wasted on the
project, cut your losses now and go. Develop for another device until the
neo becomes more palatable to your tastes.
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Re: My word on GPRS (was: How Slow Is Fast?)

[Nkoli]

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:02 PM, Mikko Rauhala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
>
> Umh. Disappointing. Is this really the best it can do or best that has
> been coaxed out of it so far?
>
> This is the case with all gprs/edge capable phones - it has nothing to do
with the neo specifically. 3G radios can maintain both voice and data at the
same time; 2 and 2.5G radios cannot.
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Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem

[Nkoli]

There are better and cheaper alternatives to skype, but if you absolutely
have to use the skype network, check out fring and iskoot. They're java
based, so they work on just about any phone.
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Re: No 3G for GTA03, 2G/EDGE only?

[Nkoli]

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, thomasg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> That's (partly) true.
> Nokias Symbian S60 and their S40 phones need to reboot - but that's only a
> software problem and I don't really know why they do that.
>
>
That is interesting. I've owned only nokia S60 devices since 2006 and have
never had to restart a phone to switch between 2, 2.5 and 3G. I can speak
for S60 v3, S60 v3 FP1 and FP2 - can't speak for any nokias before that
since my S60 v2 device was not a nokia. Also, all phones that support 3G get
significantly less battery life on 3G whether the signal is at full strength
or not (much worse in the latter case). It was my understanding that the 3G
radio used more power, but I may be wrong.

As a tmobile USA (non New York) user, 3G can wait till 2009 for all I care,
but EDGE is definitely a necessity. Since the rest of the world will have
been using 3G for 2-5 years by the time GTA03 is released, not having 3G in
that device will be a really bad idea. Forget the camera, unless it is at
least 3.2 MP with xenon or dual led flash.
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Re: Switch from GTK to QT (was: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions)

[Nkoli]

On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Carlo E. Prelz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> My complaint is that it would be difficult for me to put my hands into
> the default apps. They are C++, QT, and expectedly using enough of
> those creepy C++-isms (possibly, even those yecchy templates or
> whereabouts). I would be comfortable with tinkering with C>K main
> apps. On the other hand, I would find C++&QT main apps closed boxes (I
> perfectly know that I could very well write C/Ruby new code on the
> OM).
>
> From this statement, one would think that you don't use _any_ applications
written in C++ or Qt for the simple reason that you can't tinker with the
code. I am sure this is not the case. You use the applications written in
C++/Qt and play with those written in the languages you're comfortable with
or you write your own from scratch. Right now OM needs more new apps than it
needs shipped apps taken apart (which will probably be done by a number of
people anyway).

Refusing to get the phone because you dislike the languages the shipped apps
are written in, not because it prevents anyone from coding in the languages
they prefer or that any of the applications are proprietary is beyond
ridiculous. To each their own though. Good luck getting that perfect phone
that ships with C and GTK apps and also lets you code in any language you
want.
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Re: Thoughts about calls not taken

[Nkoli]

Youmail has a number based profile setup, where you can set responses for
specific numbers (hang up on people, play different voicemail messages,
whatever). They have some wacky videos on their website that show how the
service works.

For visual voicemail, there's a number of options available to any mobile
phone user that doesn't care for the iphone + AT&T shackle. Callwave has
served me well so far, but there are others out there.

If those two ever combined, they would have a killer product. Anyway,
they're both free and I am in no way affiliated with either of them.

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 6:32 PM, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> ian douglas wrote:
> > >
> > > > I use pidgin (gaim) for IM,
> > > >
> > >
> > I tried to use pidgin on the OM but found that I couldn't enter my IM
> > profile details as the multi-tap keyboard didn't get 'activated' when in
> > these fields - has this been fixed now? /me will try again if this is
> > the case.
> >
>
> No, I use it on my desktop and mentioned it solely for comparison of how
> an on-phone answering machine app would be most useful. Sorry for not being
> clear.
>
>
> -id
>
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Re: Power Management on Neo1973

[Nkoli]

On Jan 10, 2008 5:41 AM, Nils Faerber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
> If you then calculate a 1200mAh battery and assume only 20mA total
> standby drain this will "only" give you 60h or a little less than 3
> days. If we could get this down to a total of 10mA, which is IMHO
> realistic, this would already give you 5 days of standby. This is still
> not very good but acceptable.
>

5 days of standby is more than acceptable. Heck 3 days of standby is about
average for smart phones nowadays. Every phone I've had for the past four
years has gotten charged on a mostly daily basis, so if this is the hardware
bug, it puts the neo in line with many other smart phones.
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Re: Example of accelerometers utility

[Nkoli]

On Dec 3, 2007 3:35 PM, Daniel Barkalow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> You obviously choose the application you want by tilting the screen so the
> marble rolls through the maze to the application's icon.
>

Hey, this is actually very doable. Check out this video of the nokmote which
uses the Nokia N95's built in accelerometer for 100% navigation. You can
move left, right, up or down by tilting the phone in the corresponding
direction and select by lifting the phone slightly.

http://www.dailymotion.com/related/6130275/video/x3f4o8_nokmote_tech

Imagine hands free web browsing experience... I can't wait for the end of
December.
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Re: need someone to develop this....

[Nkoli]

On Dec 3, 2007 12:02 PM, Randall Mason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Actually, I don't think "shoogle" mentioned the pairing-shaking security
> idea.  I thought that they were only creating non visual user interfaces to
> things like number of SMSs and battery charge.  The main similarity is
> shaking, which maracas and rainsticks both clearly have prior art on these
> ideas.
>
> Randall
>

Actually, maracas and rainsticks clearly do not have prior art on these
ideas. I sent out a link to this youtube video when the idea was first
mentioned. Here it is again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktJC0S4_X58
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Re: need someone to develop this....

[Nkoli]

On Nov 30, 2007 3:34 PM, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> If Bob (or Alice) hands his (or her) phone to the other, then if both
> phones are shaken in the same hand, the acceleration pattern might
> provide an extremely unique yet similar signature, not unlike exchanging
> an encryption key.
>
> So if you want to establish a trusted relationship with another Neo
> user, the two phones are shaken together until the software indicates
> that you have generated a complex enough pattern that has been
> recognized on the other.
>
> Once this has been established, they can exchange one of the standard
> encryption keys.
>
> All without pressing a single key, and without danger of exposing
> anything to other Neo or bluetooth devices within range.
>
>
You mean... like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktJC0S4_X58
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Re: SIM card read/write [was Re: SIM Card Copy]

[Nkoli]

On Nov 27, 2007 9:02 AM, Alexey Feldgendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> I don't know what exactly you mean under a "SIM card reader/writer", but
> the phone itself is a programmable device with a USB port and a SIM card
> slot. What other hardware do you need?
>
> A previous post indicates that he's looking at ways to get a second sim
card in the picture.

I think it must be cumbersome to carry around a usb sim card reader that you
attach and deattach each time you need the second sim. Might as well stick a
compact second phone with a second sim card in your
backpack/glovebox/storage unit and use bluetooth to link to the second card.
Twould be instantaneous... always connected and no wires to mess around
with. If symbian can do this, openmoko should be able to as well.

Alternatively, you could pick up dual sim card
holderson
fleabay.
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Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue

[Nkoli]

n 11/6/07, hank williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Bottom line is that Nokia uses statistics to try to claim a larger
> share of the smartphone market. But their symbian deployments are
> mainly in non-smartphones, and any numbers based on symbian as a real
> smartphone platform are deceptive.
>
> Hank


Anyone that calls themselves a "smart phone analyst" should know that
Symbian S40 = nokia feature phone and Symbian S60 = nokia smart phone.
However, knowing the sorry sorry state of journalism today, I won't disagree
that said experts sometimes know squat about what they're analyzing. I'd say
> 60 mil smart phones sold in '06 sounds more likely considering how the N95
sold about 1.5 mil worldwide in only Q2 of 07 and other N series devices
came in at about 7.5 mil for that 3 month period. Not to mention E series
devices that sold 2 mil.

Either way though, you can't argue that nokia is the largest mobile phone
manufacturer and they're also the largest smart phone manufacturer.
Hereis a more conservative
estimate at 56% market share for S60 phones in 2006
as well as other statistics regarding the mobile industry. That website
throws out 70.9 mil total smart phones sold in 2006 which sounds pretty
reasonable.

Again, the majority of S60 phones are sold in countries other than the US.
Nokia moved their focus elsewhere because the majority of consumers here
were not interested in smart phones until very recently. Granted the smart
phone market in the US seems to have exploded this year with more WM and
blackberry devices now that palm is practically dead but S60 phones are
still scarce. Even if nokia only makes 50% of smart phones, that is ~45% of
market share that US consumers have been completely excluded from. Let's say
we buy up to 20-30% of the remaining smart phone market... that's still
around 15% total market share.

Let's face it, the US market isn't very important for a smart phone
manufacturer. FIC could ignore the US market completely and still sell
boatloads of the Neo. To be quite honest, I would prefer if the OM team held
off on the US market for 6 months or so till they can implement quad band 3G
and quad band GSM for a true world phone. They'll certainly be one of the
first to support tmobile's AWS, which would really raise the chances of a US
carrier adopting the phone. Here's to hoping.
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Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue

[Nkoli]

On 11/6/07, hank williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> 1. did I say it was not possible to exist as a company without the US? No.
>
> What I said was that a plurality of smart phones are sold in the US.
> It is a major market. And a huge amount of OS work is done in the US.
> To design a phone that specifically cant really be sold in the US is
> dumb. It cuts out a huge potential market. And given the high level of
> competition, loosing 20 - 30% of your market opportunity is
> potentially deadly.
>

< A bunch of unresearched Americanist BS snipped >


Seriously, dude, I don't know how you could have gotten that idea that
people in the US comprise a semi decent amount of the smart phone market. We
don't. We're not even close to the top 5. I stopped being amazed a long time
ago at how few people in the US are aware phones can be used for anything
other than making calls and downloading ringtones. Don't even get me started
on the topic of unlocked phones.

Check your facts and assumptions Hank. As of 2006, symbian S60 phones made
up about 70% of the smart phone market. Nokia, the maker of most symbian
phones practically withdrew from the US market for a few years, which meant
that if you wanted a Nokia smart phone in the US, you had to get it unlocked
and unbranded... which again, most US consumers aren't aware that phones can
be obtained from anywhere other than their cellphone companies. Nokia only
just started making a bid back into the US market these past few months. So,
there went almost 70% of smart phones that the majority of the US market
were not even aware existed.
Here's
a link giving the 70% figure in 2006. I vaguely recall an article I read
this year saying symbian phones were down to maybe 56-62% of smart phones,
but either way, it's still a very significant amount.

You say smart phone in the US and people automagically think windows mobile,
treos, crackberries. US consumers may buy a large number of these phones
(maybe even up to the 20-30% you mentioned), but that's only about 30-40% of
all smart phones available. This
articlecompares smart
phone adoption among recent buyers as of the time of writing
in different countries - US adoption was pretty abysmal back in 2006. While
I'm sure it's increased since then, 20-30% is still a very far stretch. I
think 8% would be more accurate.
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Re: No Camera???

[Nkoli]

This camera vs non camera debate has been hashed out several times.
Many including myself support a camera option, but we have to make our
peace with the fact that it won't be happening with this version. It
is simply not possible without redesigning the case, which will only
add months and more expenses to the project. The only chance is if OM
comes out with some kind of camera attachment after the neo is
released. Considering how often this topic has popped up, I'm sure a
camera phone will be released at some point.. let's just hope it
happens next year.

On 10/8/07, Ajit Kallingal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Consumer demand is the reason Manufacturer's have been keeping the camera on
> the phone. And I have only seen them increasing the
> Pixel count with each new phone.
> There might not a be lot of consumers using the Contact as their only
> address book. But having it on the phone does help.
> Oft used features don't target the whole market, but it being available will
> motivate younger generation to get the "cool" Neo
> phone, Making Neo/OpenMoko a commercial success will also help wider
> acceptance, Keeping it restricted to the "Nerd" market will not
> help future demand by lowering prices.
>
> Ajit
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Tilman Baumann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "List for OpenMoko community discussion" 
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 7:41 AM
> Subject: Re: No Camera???
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >> A survey on The Register (UK site) had camera at the lowest required
> >> feature with about 25% of people saying they need one and 25% saying
> >> the couldn't care less.
> >
> > Do you have a link? I can't seem to find it. Also, The Register's readers
> are hardly representative of the mobile phone market!
>
> Waht market?
> Forget about market. The Neo has no need to provide what the 'Marked' wants.
> The Marked is oversaturated by Nokia, Motorola and co.
>
> It would be completely sucidal to compete with them.
> Openmokos chance is to fill a niche that is not covered by all the big
> vendors.
> And that is freedom, the ability for unlimitless customisability and
> software that is written by nerds who love theyr software and written
> for nerds.
>
> >> the Neo is in no way a phone for the average. This marked is
> >> well served with the usual suspects.
> >
> > Ok, I was under the impression the Neo would be aimed at end users.
>
> Where is the conflict?
>
> Linux distros are for end users too. But clearly not for everyone.
> But that is ok.
>
> World domination can wait.
> It would be completely stupid to enter the marked with linux as a
> windows replacement for everyone as it would be stupid to enter the
> marked with the Neo as a replacement for all the nokia phones out there.
>
> You can just take all 'end user surveys' and stick them enywhere. They
> are irelevant. The question is, where can the Neo find its marked where
> the others are not.
> If a phone would be fine is non the less a valid question.
> But as it was said, there is non going to come for the next version.
> Because it is impossible to change the design so far. period.
> And i don't think that will be a killer.
>
> Later versions might have a phone. Maybe...
>
>
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Re: AW: Apple's heavy hand an opportunity for Linux smartphones like OpenMoko

[Nkoli]

On 10/3/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Indeed, if you were on the money Steve is, had the lifestyle he does
> then you'd do all to protect it.



Nokia's new ads are already capitalizing on apple's stupid  lockdown. The
ads are obviously meant to put the spotlight on nokia's symbian OS, but I
think it speaks for every other mobile OS that is open to end user
development since people turned off by apple will start to realize there are
so many other options out there.
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Re: interface design suggestions

[Nkoli]

On 9/23/07, Dani Anon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I find exactly the same flaws I'm talking about in what you call the new
> interface. Maybe we are not looking to the same thing? Could you provide
> an screenshot of the new interface or tell me how my suggestions aren't
> relevant anymore?
>
> And the header thing is obviously something I didn't do along the
> missing things I mentioned but I forgot to mention that particular
> detail. As I said, it's work in progress, but I wanted to discuss this
> beforehand cause I don't have much time for something that isn't going
> to be used.
>
> Dani
>
>
I doubt any one design will please the majority, but iirc it should be
themable so people can either make their own or find one they prefer. The
general consensus though is that 2007.2 is leaps and bounds ahead of 2007.1.
It's definitely a lot more polished. Take a look at
http://scap.linuxtogo.org for screenshots of the new interface in action.
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Re: Apple is going to beat all competitors

[Nkoli]

On 9/7/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> The iPhone killer, competitor, or comparisons you have been describing -
> to
> me - should not be done against the neo.  The iPhone killer will be a
> later
> model OpenMoko phone brought out after much custom development and
> innovative ideas are done against the Neo1973.  The basic production
> Neo1973 is what will begin the end of the iPhone - and all other phones -
> but it is not going to be released as "the one" (pun!) ready to do it.  It
> will take some time and community innovation for the neo to be a "killer
> phone".



It's truly unfortunate, but it is inevitable that any touchscreen phone
released in the post iphone market will be compared to the iphone. It will
be compared to the prada and the HTC touch to name but a few. The media can
(again, unfortunately) make or break a product and once a meme is born, it's
hard to get rid of. The neo has been tagged the anti iphone. It has gotten a
lot of hype without launching a single official ad. Whether it was
originally intended to be a geek phone doesn't matter. Things have gotten a
little bit out of hand and people all over (geeks and non geeks) are excited
for the product. It has essentially become the little grassroots project
that could.

If it doesn't live up to the hype, the media will surely tear it to pieces
before it even hits the ground. Who knows what will happen to future
products from openmoko then? With the iphone price cut, the neo just lost
the 'cheaper alternative' tag. Being unlocked doesn't make the neo special -
you can buy any phone unlocked and unfettered off the net. Having a
community of developers doesn't make it special either - you can get
thousands of user developed (ie non commercial) software for all (real)
smart phones. What makes the neo special is how loose a collar neo owners
have in comparison to other unlocked smart phones.

Come October or November, I can see blogs and other news media checking off
all these points as reasons to bypass the neo. The question becomes whether
the newly created openmoko team can survive if only a few thousand phones
are sold. Maybe this is the volume they expected to sell from the get go. I
wouldn't know. If that's the case, then none of this really matters since
they are guaranteed to sell that much at the least.
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Re: Apple is going to beat all competitors

[Nkoli]

On 9/7/07, David R. Newman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> But the Neo, even as a small-quantity development kit, only costs $300.
> That's still less that $399. A mass-produced OpenMoko phone would cost
> less (particularly if it was ready to use in the Chinese, Japanese and
> Indian markets).
>
> --
> Dr. David R. Newman, Queen's University Management
> School, Belfast BT7 1NN, Northern Ireland (UK)
> Tel. +44 28 9097 3643 FAX: +44 28 9097 5156
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.qub.ac.uk/mgt/



The mass produced version will be $450. There will also be the issue of
nokia's upcoming touchscreen device to contend with.
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Re: Apple is going to beat all competitors

[Nkoli]

On 9/6/07, Denis Parchenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi folks!
>
>   Anyone saw new Apple announcement? Now iPhone is priced at $399..
>
> http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/05/steve-jobs-live-apples-the-beat-goes-on-special-event/
>
> =#=-===-===#=--- - -- -=#=-- - -   -  -
> Best regards,
>Denis



It just occurred to me that Apple's price cut may have nothing to do with
lagging sales. Sure there's that whole issue that more phones were sold in
the first 30 hrs than in the following month, but beyond that, $399 iphones
are highly detrimental to the success of the Neo1973. The neo was more
attractive to general consumers because of its price, but now OM has to
justify selling a phone with fewer features for more money. Apple's move is
ingenious if you look at it this way. Average buyers don't care that it's
running linux or that they can hack it any way they want. The neo has to
either be priced below the iphone or have more attractive features (3G + 3D
desktop and more if possible) to stand even the slightest chance in the
market.
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Re: Myth Busting FTW

[Nkoli]

On 9/6/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> I think there was demand, but if you look at how the number of posts on
> this list has been downhill since a little after its release, I think
> people might have changed their minds..
>
>
> This is why I changed my mind - I have no interest in using this phone
> until it has a reliable dialer.  Until then you cant really call it a
> phone...  I just put mine on the shelf in its super cool looking bullet
> proof case and maybe someday I will take it down and try to mess with it..



Alternatively, the community ML traffic might have decreased because people
can now actually work on their phones, which feels infinitely better than
talking about possible work on it... increased traffic in other lists has
got to be coincidence. I dunno. Just a guess.

Darn, I must have missed Sean's announcement that the software was in
working condition when GTA01 shipped. Bummer, I could have replaced my nokia
before the neo ran out of stock.

Updating your phone might not be such a bad idea. Word has it the dialer and
a host of other things have been working well for a little while now.
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Phase_1_Software_Testing
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Re: I broke my (non-NEO!) phone :-(

[Nkoli]

On 9/5/07, Christ van Willegen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 9/5/07, Al Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > You may be able to convert the VMware image to a VirtualPC image and run
> it
> > direct. A tool certainly exists but it seems to be Windows-only. I've
> seen
> > suggestions that qemu-img can do the conversion too, but the VHD
> format's not
> > mentioned in the man page for my install.
> >
> > http://vmtoolkit.com/files/folders/converters/entry8.aspx
>
> That looks like just the right tool in this instance! I'll check it
> out, I have Windows at work...
>
> Christ van Willegen
> --
> 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0


There's also virtualbox (www.virtualbox.org). It's opensource, available for
mac and can run vmware images.
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Myth Busting FTW

[Nkoli]

Somebody really has their knickers in a bunch.
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q3.07/B10AE668-EAD3-46DC-A042-5EF3461D63EF.html
All that FUD is making me woozy @_@
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Re: Release schedule GTA-2

[Nkoli]

On 8/27/07, Lalo Martins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Also spracht Luca Dionisi (Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:04:39 +0200):
> > On 8/19/07, Harald Welte
> >> depends on what you think.  GTA02 phase-1 will probably be october.
> >
> > What is GTA02 phase-1 ?
>
> Better wait for someone from OpenMoko to answer, but while they don't,
> here's what I understood from Sean's wonderful presentation in Beijing
> last week:
>
> phase 0: "building the community" -- releasing specs, emulator, etc
> phase 1: limited (developer) sales -- beta, if you wish
> phase 2: open commercial sales
>
> And those three apply for any past or future OpenMoko product.
>
> best,
>Lalo Martins



I vaguely recall someone from OM saying that just as GTA01 had two phases (0
and 1) with different levels of deployment, GTA02 would most likely have at
least two phases (1 and 2? or maybe 0, 1 and 2).

My prediction is that software-wise, the neo probably won't be ready for
mass release in October, but the hardware should be ready and people who
have no problems with updating software should be able to get it by then.
Just my guess though. Best to let someone from OM give an official answer.
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Re: Screenshots? (was: Balancing simplicity with complexity)

[Nkoli]

On 8/21/07, Erland Lewin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Sounds great!
>
> Are there screenshots available anywhere?
>
> /Erland



Better, see videos on this blog:
http://chrislord.net/blog/fancy-scrolling-widgets-pt2.enlighten
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Re: Login Manager

[Nkoli]

I think your implementation is great; it's logical and clean. The only thing
I would change is the first boot part. Most phones, if not all, allow
security conscious users to set some kind of password/pin to lock their
phones. It should also be an option on the Neo, not a requirement.

Example, at first boot, user is asked whether they wish to set a password,
Yes or No. If yes, password is set per your implementation and becomes a
requirement each boot. If no, remind the user they can still set a password
from  and leave it at that.
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Re: US: T-Mobile plans

[Nkoli]

On 7/31/07, John Seghers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> No, it was definitely the SIM. Certain handsets with certain SIMs would
> not
> download off our server (They would download the JAD, but not the
> JAR)--and
> the JAR was being blocked, it wasn't a case of it downloading and then
> refusing to install because of a bad certificate.
>
> Changing the SIM would allow it to proceed.
>
> Also, log into Samsung's developer boards and you will find commentary
> that
> other developers were running into the same issue.
>
> - John



I wouldn't put it past any telco to do something like that. I never
encountered it myself on tmobile, but I generally only browse with gprs/edge
and save downloads for wifi or pc.
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Re: US: T-Mobile plans

[Nkoli]

On 7/30/07, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Dan Trevino writes:
> >
> >I have their $5.99 internet plan working with my unsupported Treo 680.
>
> After reading the posts to howardforums (thanks Adam!), I have to ask:
> when you say it's "working", does that mean you can go to an arbitrary
> URL and see what's there?



The only difference between T-Mobile Web and T-Mobile Internet on the phone
is that T-Mobile Internet allows VPN while T-Mobile Web doesn't. You can
access any arbitrary html or wap site on your phone with both plans. I've
been using the cheaper plan since their t-zones unlimited days and haven't
had any problems getting online. Tethering should also work with T-Mobile
Web.

All the info you need to set it up here if you haven't found it already:
http://support.t-mobile.com/knowbase/root/public/tm21625.htm?
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Re: Finger Graffiti

[Nkoli]

On 7/29/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> I don't think your finger will slide around the screen easily enough
> to make it work. Even if it does it will leave lots of smears on the
> screen. Also I don't see that typing is any slower than graffiti if
> the keyboard is well designed. I just hate using handwriting
> recognition, I've used it on Palm, Windows Mobile and use it now on
> my Nintendo DS.
>
> If you're like me and don't write on paper all that much you get
> irritated with having to write very perfectly on such devices, I'd
> also say typing uses less effort and you won't get finger/joint ache
> if you use it a lot.
>
> I think the major problem with small screen size and text entry is
> seeing the screen with your finger in the way.


Yeah, early onset finger arthritis could be an unpleasant side effect. As
for the screen, it will have smears already from regular use.. which might
actually help with easier sliding. I also find handwriting recognition
software quite painful to use, but in conjunction with a smart dictionary to
compensate for similar characters (ie recognize that strokes for 9re9t
should really be interpreted as great and replace on the fly), the
experience might be improved.
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Re: Finger Graffiti

[Nkoli]

On 7/29/07, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Michael Welter writes:
> >So, who are they going to sue???
>
> Who said anything about a lawsuit?  It is their trademark; stepping on
> it would be really rude, no matter who they decided to go after as a
> result.



Interface would be Graffiti-like (I used upper and lowercase G to denote
trademark and such as Giles mentioned). The name would certainly have
nothing to do with Graffiti. The words finger + graffiti just happens to be
the simplest combination to define what I had in mind.

Quikwriting's different-but-easier alphabet implementation is quite
interesting and may be the best way to get good handwriting recognition. I
was thinking handwriting recognition that can be used with fingers because
of all the interest in finger based apps, since most people won't carry
their styli around if the majority of apps are finger based.
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Finger Graffiti

[Nkoli]

So, there I was pretending my phone has a touchscreen while I wait for GTA02
when this idea popped into my head for a keyboard alternative. I would very
much like to hear thoughts. The design would remove the onscreen keyboard
completely and replace it with a Graffiti-like interface that can recognize
something as wide as a finger or as tiny as a stylus. A couple of icons for
a symbols list and other essentials that the user may not want to write out
(ex www., .com or greek letters) will be all that's left of the keyboard.
For the sake of minimalism, the entire screen, excluding the very top or
bottom where the icons are, will be used as the input area. The app should
be activated or deactivated with one touch just like the current keyboard.
It would have to have some excellent text recognition as well as a built in
dictionary to suggest words, which should make up for any holes in the text
recognition. Also, a find as you write feature will be handy for finding
folders in the main menu, names in the contact list or numbers in the logs,
basically reducing scrolling through areas that aren't primarily text based.
The benefits of this finger graffiti are that it has a learning curve of
zero, eliminates hunting and pecking so anyone can write quickly without
needing to get used to the onscreen keyboard. Oh yeah, it's as fast as you
can move your fingers and it can easily be done one handed. I have little
experience with programming and I hardly do more than write little time
saving scripts nowadays, so I honestly have no concept of what such an app
would take. What d'you guys think?
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Re: Wiki application list.

[Nkoli]

On 7/27/07, Frans Grotepass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I want to order a GTA-01, but some questions still remain.
>
> 1: What is the status of various developments in the applications. The
> wiki
> lacks enough informaiton. Is something like this list possible?


GTA01 is an early stage devs version and the first phones only started
arriving yesterday.
The phone can make and receive phone calls and has some really basic apps
like calendar, calculator, etc. UI still desperately needs attention.
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Developer_preview

http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverPort#Write_low_level_code_and_drivers


Website is down.

2: To what extent is it possible to use the phone as my daily phone? Are the
> basic apps good enough?


Depends on what you can do without (temporarily of course). You can check it
out under qemu - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU

3: How long does the device run on a battery?


No one knows. Battery is 1200mAh for GTA01. Going by my phone with a dinky
850mAh and a few more features which lasts about 3.5 hrs with everything
cranked, I'd say the neo will last about 5 hrs with everything cranked.
Though power management was still a bit flaky last I checked (may have been
fixed by now).

4: is the uboot bootloader stable enough to make a basic model sufficient?
>

It seems stable, but I don't know that it's enough for daily use.
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Re: Re: email vs forum

[Nkoli]

On 7/25/07, Andreas Kostyrka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


The average customer won't wait for the "few simple" web clicks, at least
not on a device that has only a GPRS connection. The Nokia E61 browser has a
nice KB counter and it's incredible how huge current web sites have gotten.
(and there is only limited hope of improvement, as we want the websites to
have the functionality, don't we).



Let's not forget the device also has wifi. Considering how slow gprs is,
more likely than not, the average consumer will be surfing the web on a wifi
connection... especially if they don't have unlimited gprs. Waiting for the
page to load becomes a non issue.

As has been mentioned a few times, the average user _does not_ want to know
every single thing going on with the community and will only be interested
in finding the information they need and moving on. Assuming the neo's
browser is as good as the symbian browser, navigating a forum on the neo
will be as painless as navigating a forum on a laptop.

A forum caters to the end users who will go cross eyed if you mention pop3
or imap. Yes, yes, there are no end users to think of yet, but better this
issue is resolved now than have this discussion in October. This ML is
filled with people with technical know-how. If all this bandwith that has
been wasted going back on forth on this issue had been shoveled into coming
up with a solution, I bet there would be an efficient way to communicate
between forum and ML by now.

Throwing in my 10 cents.
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Re: Camera on GTA02

[Nkoli]

On 7/23/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



People complain about the price of the iPhone,



...yet upwards of a hundred thousand stood in line on day one to buy the
thing. Dude, this is unprecedented. The phone shook the US industry silly
and that industry is still recovering. Just imagine if Apple had had the
sense to do a worldwide release (ala PS3, Wii) with no contract requirements
(they're paying full price anyway, so no need for the AT&T shackle). The
phone industry that we know and love might just have imploded from the
effect.

Point is, the iPhone has gotten Jack and Jill Average _talking_ about smart
phones... err make that touchscreen (semi) smartphones with nifty eye candy.
They may not quite understand what it is, since the iPhone only gives them a
tiny glimpse, but they now know there can be more to a phone than the crap
free phones their telco offers.

Apple surely understands the few things they did wrong by now and will fix
those problems in iPhone Mini. Before they do, the phone that can capitalize
on this opening will make a killing.
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Re: Camera on GTA02

[Nkoli]

On 7/23/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



It's unrealistic to think this phone can get huge market
share. Simply because you won't have the major operators selling them
on contract. Until operators are pushing them and people know what the
brand means


(ie, reputation) it's going to be a phone for people in the know.


If done right, it just might grab a good chunk of the market without needing
telcos. If anything, Apple has shown that people are willing to drop $500 -
$600 on a phone they can fall in love with. In the US at least. It may not
be so with the rest of the world but that remains to be seen.

Following Apple's "revolution" of the phone industry, the Neo has the
perfect opportunity to grab that group of people who would have bought
iPhone v1.0 if it wasn't tied to AT&T or the US. Add to that business users,
linux users, geeks the world over and all around gadget freaks and we may be
talking a sizable market.

FIC is a solid brand name. It may not be tied to the phone industry, but
neither was Apple and look just how much that affected its market share. The
key is advertising, advertising, advertising. Viral, persistent,
in-your-face advertising. Something simple, persistent, but not obnoxious.
Get Steven Colbert, Conan O'Brien, Ellen Degeneres, Opera (yah THAT Opera)
and other figureheads in the US and other countries talking about it and
this phone will really go places.

Ok, I'm dreaming really big here, but this phone has so much potential it's
not even funny. With all the enthusiasm on this list, I can't be the only
one.
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Re: Camera on GTA02

[Nkoli]

On 7/23/07, Mark Eichin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



"Joshua Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I agree 100% with Coomac.



Whoops, name fixed.




the people who can't bring cameras to work (a growing
number) are going to be a disproportionately large percentage of the
people who *actually pay for phones* and *want smartphones in the
first place*...



You're right about business smart phones, but you're not taking nokia's
symbian phones and their huge userbase into account. One glance at gsmarena
(or any phone website) comments section will give you an idea of how large
the non business users are.

The phones all have cameras, even the E61 got one after the owners made a
fuss about it... and this is the true business phone of the bunch. With
nokia being the largest cell phone manufacturer, they are scratching a
significant itch for a significant number of smart phone users.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/25/mobile_devices_who_decides/


it's more like 30% who can't have them, 15% who can't live without,
and the remaining 55% who don't care...



I don't know man. That poll only accounts for places where the
company/school/whatever supplies the phone to their employees, not the
general populace.
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Re: app idea

[Nkoli]

On 7/23/07, Jeff Andros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


there are quite a few people out there who are ringtone fanatics
(personally, I can't understand paying 3.99 for a 30 second song clip...




I'm with you 100% here.

An app that allows users to make their own ringtones for shareage would be
great. Throw in the ability to use a full length song stored on the phone,
the option of offsetting the beginning of the song to n seconds and the
ability to share that 30 sec clip with friends who wish they had a Neo (
:-P) and you've got a killer app.
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